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(UPI)   Greece votes to have a real government for the first time in the country's history   (upi.com) divider line 104
    More: Followup, Athens Greece, New Democracy, Sinai, Elections in Greece, Rodney King, Greek Orthodox  
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11141 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 5:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-17 02:06:55 PM
I wonder if the EU will boot Greece out before Greece can take down the whole Euro
 
2012-06-17 03:08:36 PM
Well, this should be fun to watch.

www.diabetesmine.com

I'm ready, let's go!
 
2012-06-17 03:35:41 PM
35% actually voted.

Sorry, but they are lazy all the way to the end. They deserve what they have coming.
 
2012-06-17 03:55:42 PM
The projections showed New Democracy winning 29.5 percent and 128 seats. The radical left Syriza party, which has vowed to repeal Greece's international bailout deal, was expected to come in second with 27.1 percent and 72 seats. PASOK trails with 12.3 percent and 33 seats.
To form a majority government, a coalition would need at least 151 seats.


liberal conservative New Democracy and the social democracy PASOK will form a government and accept the bailout.
TADA - what a shock.

I predict that the rest of the voters will now riot in the street and burn the remaining shops to the ground in protest.
TADA - this will help how??
 
2012-06-17 04:04:32 PM
I love diverse parties but, Greece, a few that got their lazy asses of the couch voted for this:

cdn1.tabletmag.com

You know wo else voted for that?

The same people that will kick your asses out of the EU.
 
2012-06-17 04:08:58 PM

hinten: I love diverse parties but, Greece, a few that got their lazy asses of the couch voted for this:

[cdn1.tabletmag.com image 620x416]

You know wo else voted for that?

The same people that will kick your asses out of the EU.


is this the replacement symbol for the nazi party??
LOL
 
2012-06-17 05:29:07 PM

namatad: hinten: I love diverse parties but, Greece, a few that got their lazy asses of the couch voted for this:

[cdn1.tabletmag.com image 620x416]

You know wo else voted for that?

The same people that will kick your asses out of the EU.

is this the replacement symbol for the nazi party??
LOL


thought the same thing
 
2012-06-17 05:30:22 PM
encrypted-tbn3.google.com
 
2012-06-17 05:31:43 PM
So, when are they going to take the constitutionally guaranteed protections, privileges and immunity away from the rich and elite to stop making them the Greek Political Equivalent of the Pantheon of the Gods?
 
2012-06-17 05:32:19 PM
Wow thanks subby, what an informative link.
 
2012-06-17 05:33:25 PM
Looks like at least for today the Greeks are smart enough to be reasonable and have voted in the pro austerity coalition. Good for them. I was kind of hoping they'd let themselves be Tsirpased out of the euro. For the lulz.
 
2012-06-17 05:33:40 PM
SPARTA!!!

/got nuthin'
//These are interesting times indeed.
 
2012-06-17 05:34:17 PM
www.rpgfan.com
If it's a start, hope they can continue.

P.S. Seriously, though, subby, first time in the history of one of the oldest democracies in history? Or is that the joke?
 
2012-06-17 05:36:43 PM

dragonchild: [www.rpgfan.com image 256x224]
If it's a start, hope they can continue.

P.S. Seriously, though, subby, first time in the history of one of the oldest democracies in history? Or is that the joke?


Well, it wasn't a democracy for the womenfolk. Or the slaves. Or the metics.
 
2012-06-17 05:38:24 PM
AliceBToklasLives: Well, it wasn't a democracy for the womenfolk. Or the slaves. Or the metics.

It was an ideal democracy. Only the rich, white land owners mattered. And and God as my witness, that's how it should be! Those inferior olive skinned poor freaks don't know how to govern themselves, let alone an entire country. Why, if they had any intellect, they'd grab their bootstraps and rise above their conditions!

Since no one seems able to detect sarcasm, that's what the above is.
 
2012-06-17 05:40:01 PM
mimg.ugo.com
"Since inventing democracy, those guys have been... coasting."
 
2012-06-17 05:40:21 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Well, it wasn't a democracy for the womenfolk. Or the slaves. Or the metics.


You make it sound like the Republican Party's goal is to finish a 2500-year cycle that started there.
 
2012-06-17 05:44:42 PM
hinten
35% actually voted.

Sorry, but they are lazy all the way to the end. They deserve what they have coming.


And what would be the cause of this peculiar laziness syndrome? Genetics? "They" are just born that way, right?
 
2012-06-17 05:49:51 PM
Syriza threatening riots. The coalition is not formed yet subby. Anything can happen
 
2012-06-17 05:50:57 PM
Feckin' Greeks!

Link
 
2012-06-17 05:51:09 PM
Better article here.
 
2012-06-17 05:52:45 PM
It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?
 
2012-06-17 05:55:12 PM

hinten: The same people that will kick your asses out of the EU.


The part I don't understand are those who keep looking for bailouts for the PIIGS. I am not talking voters here, but rather people in other countries who are sure of their desire for the EU to coalesce.

Do they really think, long term, that Germans will just surrender the spoils of their efforts?

Is there anything in history that suggests that is in their nature?
 
2012-06-17 05:57:14 PM
mauinow.com

It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's what you do with your dancin' shoes.
 
2012-06-17 05:58:58 PM
European banks are loaning them the money to pay the interest they owe on loans to European banks. Of course this will end well.
 
2012-06-17 05:59:11 PM
Yukon Callmeal
The part I don't understand are those who keep looking for bailouts for the PIIGS. I am not talking voters here, but rather people in other countries who are sure of their desire for the EU to coalesce.

It has nothing to do with the EU. The people who want to keep cramming the bailouts down Greece's throat are doing it because practically all of the bailout money goes to French and German banks. If Greece doesn't get the bailouts, it can't make the payments, and suddenly the banks start closing up shop. The bailouts are a giant money laundering scheme.
 
2012-06-17 06:01:37 PM
LordOfThePings

Looks like Kenickie is having a stroke in that picture.

/Too soon?
 
2012-06-17 06:03:12 PM
The Bank of Athens can print Euros, what's to stop Greece from just printing money to bail themselves out? What would happen if Greece decided to just not pay? Could they be kicked out of the EU? If Greece decided to just abandon the Euro and go back to the drachma what's the worst that could happen, trade sanctions?
 
2012-06-17 06:04:25 PM

RanDomino: Yukon Callmeal
The part I don't understand are those who keep looking for bailouts for the PIIGS. I am not talking voters here, but rather people in other countries who are sure of their desire for the EU to coalesce.

It has nothing to do with the EU. The people who want to keep cramming the bailouts down Greece's throat are doing it because practically all of the bailout money goes to French and German banks. If Greece doesn't get the bailouts, it can't make the payments, and suddenly the banks start closing up shop. The bailouts are a giant money laundering scheme.


Ding ding ding, correctamundo. We didn't bail out AIG because we were worried about AIG. We were worried about the trillions of dollars of losses that would have instantly materialized on the balance sheets of the worlds biggest banks.

Same principle here.
 
2012-06-17 06:10:21 PM

RanDomino: Yukon Callmeal
The part I don't understand are those who keep looking for bailouts for the PIIGS. I am not talking voters here, but rather people in other countries who are sure of their desire for the EU to coalesce.

It has nothing to do with the EU. The people who want to keep cramming the bailouts down Greece's throat are doing it because practically all of the bailout money goes to French and German banks. If Greece doesn't get the bailouts, it can't make the payments, and suddenly the banks start closing up shop. The bailouts are a giant money laundering scheme.


At the end of 2001 Argentina defaulted on it's international debt and untied the peso from the U.S. dollar, and this actually worked for them(although not for us). The real question for the Greeks is: Do we sacrifice the Euro for the sake of Greece, or vice versa?
 
2012-06-17 06:20:59 PM

RanDomino: hinten
35% actually voted.

Sorry, but they are lazy all the way to the end. They deserve what they have coming.

And what would be the cause of this peculiar laziness syndrome?


Being Greek.
 
2012-06-17 06:22:21 PM

hinten: 35% actually voted.

Sorry, but they are lazy all the way to the end. They deserve what they have coming.


People said the same thing about North Carolina's Amendment One a few weeks back.
 
2012-06-17 06:24:11 PM

RanDomino: hinten
35% actually voted.

Sorry, but they are lazy all the way to the end. They deserve what they have coming.

And what would be the cause of this peculiar laziness syndrome? Genetics? "They" are just born that way, right?


Why are you jumping straight to genetics? Nobody said anything about DNA. Vast numbers of people almost always follow behavioral patterns based entirely on learned (read: social) norms.

Cultures bend individuals to their will. It's the nature of Humans to strive for normality. If everybody else is doing it, you will too. Has nothing to do with genetic variance. (e.g. specific to Greeks)

Now, as for myself, not knowing Greek culture and society, I can't say that it's just a "Greek Thing" or if the people have simply lost hope by this point and have given in to nihilistic apathy. Maybe the Average Greek on the Street is simply at the point where they don't see any light at the end of any tunnel, so have chosen to sit this one out to let the inevitable happen.
 
2012-06-17 06:24:13 PM

DreamyAltarBoy: It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?


I hear that sort of thing about living in California. You get great climate, beautiful scenery, hot women, so you shouldn't mind paying for it. Like all those things are somehow conjured into being by extracting the maximum amount of money in taxes from the people.
 
2012-06-17 06:25:46 PM
Er, "specific to ethnic Greeks."
 
2012-06-17 06:31:48 PM

jjorsett: DreamyAltarBoy: It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?

I hear that sort of thing about living in California. You get great climate, beautiful scenery, hot women, so you shouldn't mind paying for it. Like all those things are somehow conjured into being by extracting the maximum amount of money in taxes from the people.


Actually, it makes sense.

Nobody is entitled to live anywhere. Ever. Doesn't matter where you're born, or what you've "bought". The guarantee of property exists only because of a stable, well-funded government. When a person wishes to live in a very desirable location, they have to constantly prove they are "worth" their living. They either have to pay more money, or provide some form of public good (being a hot chick is actually a service to the public good...). It's the most basic natural order one can imagine.

So yes, you must acquire more wealth, pay more taxes (those taxes guarantee your legal ownership status...), and otherwise out-compete everybody else to maintain your life in the most-desirable lands. Stop paying higher taxes, allow the government security to crumble, and you get fed to the wolves.

/we're on our way in the same direction
 
2012-06-17 06:33:29 PM

DreamyAltarBoy: RanDomino: Yukon Callmeal
The part I don't understand are those who keep looking for bailouts for the PIIGS. I am not talking voters here, but rather people in other countries who are sure of their desire for the EU to coalesce.

It has nothing to do with the EU. The people who want to keep cramming the bailouts down Greece's throat are doing it because practically all of the bailout money goes to French and German banks. If Greece doesn't get the bailouts, it can't make the payments, and suddenly the banks start closing up shop. The bailouts are a giant money laundering scheme.

At the end of 2001 Argentina defaulted on it's international debt and untied the peso from the U.S. dollar, and this actually worked for them(although not for us). The real question for the Greeks is: Do we sacrifice the Euro for the sake of Greece, or vice versa?


Didn't Iceland do something similar?

*googles*

Nevermind. Holy shiat that's a complicated mess.
 
2012-06-17 06:37:11 PM

fusillade762: Didn't Iceland do something similar?

*googles*

Nevermind. Holy shiat that's a complicated mess.


You'd think when they were putting the Euro together there would have been some sort of provision to shed a member nation for malfeasance or concealment or anything that endangers the other member nations or the group as a whole. The Greeks will get nowhere making the payments (to the French and Germans essentially) that don't ever service their debt. The Germans are usually smarter than this.
 
2012-06-17 06:43:29 PM

jjorsett: DreamyAltarBoy: It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?

I hear that sort of thing about living in California. You get great climate, beautiful scenery, hot women, so you shouldn't mind paying for it. Like all those things are somehow conjured into being by extracting the maximum amount of money in taxes from the people.


Currently in Greece the rich pay nothing, not through loopholes like we do, they just go untaxed, not the same thing.
Our problem in California is that we attempted to finance our future with revenue streams that only existed during the boom times and now we have to pay for it with a larger percentage of a diminished income.
Greece is like the sub-prime mortgage borrower that didn't need to show the income to finance the house; just slightly stupider than the person who signed off on the loan.
 
2012-06-17 06:49:40 PM

fusillade762: Didn't Iceland do something similar?

*googles*

Nevermind. Holy shiat that's a complicated mess.


No, their problem was having loans in a different currency. Their currency wasn't pegged to the dollar (not many are anymore, they usually float). However people took out loans in dollars, because interest rates were better. Well that was fine so long as their currency retained its relative valuation to the dollar, or gained in valuation. It didn't though, it went down and suddenly the loans were unpayable.

That's why you don't do shiat like that, you take loans in the currency you get paid in, in the currency your country uses. That was the fluctuations of the world market don't matter to your ability to pay the loan. Otherwise you can get a nasty surprise.

Now it can work the other way as well. Let's say you lived in Canada and took out a loan is US dollars back in 2001, where one Canadian Dollar bought about $0.65 USD. Today, they are right around on parity, 1 to 1, so you'd owe only 60% of what took out in terms of your dollars. It would be great for you, the loan would be very cheap.

However it is a gamble because currencies change against each other all the time and it could have just as easily gone the other way, and still could in the future. In the case of Iceland, it went the other way badly. Iceland's currency became much, much weaker vs the US Dollar and hence the loans were totally unpayable.

Also it is additionally dangerous since currency valuations aren't always based on real facts and a country's economy. It is based on how valuable currency traders perceive the currency to be. So a crisis of faith, or a run to a perceived safe haven, can cause a currency to fluctuate wildly, even if the country itself has had no real changes in the economy.
 
2012-06-17 06:51:09 PM

DreamyAltarBoy: It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?


Agreed. There's no hope for Greece until they fix their revenue collection problems.
 
2012-06-17 06:56:45 PM
DreamyAltarBoy:
Currently in Greece the rich pay nothing, not through loopholes like we do, they just go untaxed, not the same thing.


It sounds like the Greeks aren't very good a the whole socialism thing then. Isn't the entire concept that those who have more pay more so that everyone has enough to be comfortable?

Step 1: Enact punishingly high taxes on the rich in Greece
Step 2: Confiscate their assets/properties if they don't pay or try to flee the country to avoid the taxes
Step 3: Lower the taxes back to a reasonable level (still higher as a percentage than the middle class or poor would pay, but liveable)
Step 4: Sell the confiscated properties to new wealthy people at discounted rates
Step 5: Profit?
 
2012-06-17 06:57:30 PM

sycraft: That's why you don't do shiat like that, you take loans in the currency you get paid in, in the currency your country uses. That was the fluctuations of the world market don't matter to your ability to pay the loan. Otherwise you can get a nasty surprise.


Yeah, but if you're a small country with a currency that isn't internationally popular then it's hard to get loans from overseas denominated in your own currency. If you can finance everything internally, it doesn't matter, but if you need money from other countries then you're stuck with loans in dollars, euros or whatever.

A lot of African countries really got screwed by Paul Vocker in the early 1980s. They took out loans for development (in dollars naturally) and when the dollar interest rate briefly went up to 20% it bankrupted them. They ended up with gigantic debts that they could never repay and it undid all the progress they made since they gained independence, until those loans were forgiven some time in the last decade. Having been freed from their unpayable debt burdens, they're going quite nicely again.
 
2012-06-17 06:59:48 PM

namatad: hinten: I love diverse parties but, Greece, a few that got their lazy asses of the couch voted for this:

[cdn1.tabletmag.com image 620x416]

You know wo else voted for that?

The same people that will kick your asses out of the EU.

is this the replacement symbol for the nazi party??
LOL


The scary thing is that is actually what that is.

There is a far left nationalist party that is really starting to gain steam in Greece, similar to what happened during the shiat times in pre-WWII Germany.
 
2012-06-17 07:04:56 PM
They did it for their country.
 
2012-06-17 07:07:00 PM

Kuroshin: jjorsett: DreamyAltarBoy: It's not gonna work until they tax the rich who currently pay nothing. I'm no socialist, but hey, you get to live in Greece you know, Mediterranean sea and sunshine. Isn't that worth paying a little?

I hear that sort of thing about living in California. You get great climate, beautiful scenery, hot women, so you shouldn't mind paying for it. Like all those things are somehow conjured into being by extracting the maximum amount of money in taxes from the people.

Actually, it makes sense.

Nobody is entitled to live anywhere. Ever. Doesn't matter where you're born, or what you've "bought". The guarantee of property exists only because of a stable, well-funded government. When a person wishes to live in a very desirable location, they have to constantly prove they are "worth" their living. They either have to pay more money, or provide some form of public good (being a hot chick is actually a service to the public good...). It's the most basic natural order one can imagine.

So yes, you must acquire more wealth, pay more taxes (those taxes guarantee your legal ownership status...), and otherwise out-compete everybody else to maintain your life in the most-desirable lands. Stop paying higher taxes, allow the government security to crumble, and you get fed to the wolves.

/we're on our way in the same direction


You're comments in this thread as so rational and well typed out out that I've favorited you, and lately it takes a lot for me to favorite someone
 
2012-06-17 07:07:13 PM
this is bad news for romney.
 
2012-06-17 07:08:29 PM
RogermcAllen: The scary thing is that is actually what that is.

There is a far left nationalist party that is really starting to gain steam in Greece, similar to what happened during the shiat times in pre-WWII Germany.


Somehow, I don't think the world is as terrified of a Nazi Greece as they were of a Nazi Germany. Are they going to Blitzkreig Europe in their fourty year old US and Russian Hand-me down tanks?
 
2012-06-17 07:08:38 PM

dragonchild: [www.rpgfan.com image 256x224]
If it's a start, hope they can continue.

P.S. Seriously, though, subby, first time in the history of one of the oldest democracies in history? Or is that the joke?


democracy??
LOL
when only male rich citizens could vote?
when slaves and women had no vote?

really not much of a democracy when only old white men have a say ...
You can CALL yourself anything that you want, but that doesnt make it true.

Just look at Democratic People's Republic of Korea!!
And Saddam had elections with MASSIVE voter turn out!
 
2012-06-17 07:13:52 PM
Well, looks like the pro-Whatever Merkel Wants parties have won the day, by a razor thin margin.

Art least the average Greek knows who to blame when their "leaders" let Germany drive them back to the stone age.
 
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