If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   USAF deserter comes in from the cold after 28 years because it's really cold in Sweden. Tag is for deserting in the first place   (reuters.com) divider line 241
    More: Dumbass, Sweden, United States, residence permit, permanent residence, air forces, U.S. Air Force  
•       •       •

14077 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 3:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



241 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-06-17 10:55:37 PM
I wonder how many planes he scuttled while practicing to get there.

www.supamov.net

/hotlinked
 
2012-06-17 10:57:32 PM

obamadidcoke: So what, a young man found pacifism and he made a commitment to it. I respect that.
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right and moral even if it costs you.

I served in the army in the first gulf war and there is no honor in war, its mean and dirty and I hope that my son never has to be a part of it.

The cold war is over let's all just go home.


Then your decision process lacks maturity.

Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.
 
2012-06-17 11:14:36 PM

LarryDan43: The lesson here is, never get involved with a church that preaches peace.


Especially here in the USA. Nothing is more vile and disgusting to the average American than peace.
 
2012-06-17 11:19:36 PM

Sgt Otter: He deserted from the Air Force? What, was he mad they forgot to leave a mint on his pillow?



Way late, glad to see this was covered early.

/dumbass tag is appropriate.

Spasticus Autisticus: Englebert Slaptyback: Spasticus Autisticus

[cdn.inquisitr.com image 500x375]



Swing and a miss on image use.
 
2012-06-17 11:20:02 PM

unicron702: buckler: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

Yeah, there's that whole "Oath of Office" thing, signatures on contracts, and multiple IRL versions of the "Are you sure you want to perform this operation?" thing.

And he agreed to all of that, then walked away. What's left to discuss?


The military is the only "job" that disallows walking away. Someday we will recognize that it is contractual slavery. Either you can leave when you want or you can't. If you can't leave at will, you are being deprived of your liberty. It is an immoral contract.
 
2012-06-17 11:24:40 PM

Pribar: Meh generally if you desert and evade for 5 or more years what they do is process you on a dishonorable discharge and boot ya to the curb, unless you committed some other crime or managed to really piss off someone in your chain of command with enough juice to get you court martialed, the general consensus is the restrictions a dishonorable discharge puts on your employment opportunities is enough punishment so why should we waste more resources on your worthless ass.

/assigned as a paperwork monkey for the JaG office while I was being processed for medical discharge, saw a few deserters go through the system, read some files on some others.
//hey my knee was immobilized in a contraption that looked like it was designed by the Marquis de Sade, bolts going into the bone everywhere and they gave me fecking tylenol, I needed distraction, even boring distractions.


Is your knee okay?
 
2012-06-17 11:32:42 PM

Uisce Beatha: DrWhy: I wonder if there isn't some administrative procedure for investigating claims of a change of conscience of people already in the military and then giving these people an honorable/or at least not dishonorable discharge if their pacifism is found to be legit?

There isn't. If you volunteer, and then have a change of heart, you either finish out your contract, or you take the consequences of deserting.

/Was a religious lay leader in the Navy
//Collateral duty, not primary job, no room for actual chaplains on submarines
///Had a few guys questioning their service around 2003


Your post makes me even more sympathetic towards this guy. It is unthinkable to me that there is no recognition that people might grow, develop a relationship with G-d, or have a sincere change in moral understanding.
Doesn't anyone learn about William Penn anymore?
 
2012-06-17 11:40:50 PM
Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.
 
2012-06-17 11:40:56 PM

Pancoaifo: DrWhy: HoratioGates: I understand that do to the nature of the military desertion has to be treated as a major crime, and therefore I don't think you can just let something like this slide, although perhaps a statute of limitations might be established. (I have nothing against draft dodgers on the other hand, they didn't sign up). Still, I think in times of relative peace, there should be a method for someone who has a change of conscience to leave the military. They should have to pay off any training they got, just like a student loan, and do some other sort of service for the country for the remainder of their tour. Unless he was deserting to avoid deployment to that horrible war in Grenada or Panama I think there should have been a better option.

What about conscientious objector status? It sounds like he could have appealed his enlistment on grounds of that? Yes, I know that's normally a consideration for draft boards to allow draftees who are serious pacifists to not be forced to choose between violating their conscience or going to jail, but I wonder if there isn't some administrative procedure for investigating claims of a change of conscience of people already in the military and then giving these people an honorable/or at least not dishonorable discharge if their pacifism is found to be legit?

Appealed a contract he willfully entered?

A buddy of mine took a humanitarian discharge because his mother died and he had an 8 year old sister. (dad was not in the picture). He accepted the offer to be discharged so he could be her guardian. He retained the benefits he had earned up to that point.

I knew a chaplain who once yelled at me for killing a spider rather than moving it outside and releasing it. That chaplain also spent the prior 20 years as a civilian paramedic. And I would gladly hurt anyone that insulted him. (well, try to)

There is plenty of room for conscience in the military. In many ways, far more so than any civilian employer I've ever ha ...


Okay, what you're saying makes sense, but what benefits has this individual drawn? He can't access veterans' benefits and it doesn't seem that he wants to. I see no reason to crucify him.

On a slightly unrelated note, I'm wondering if the peace church happened to be the Amish or Mennonites?
 
2012-06-17 11:46:00 PM

xebeche_tzu: Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.


How about not leaving a promise unfulfilled? Do you purchase the mortgage on a house, find a better one a year later and expect the first bank to let you out of the contract?

Do you marry someone, impregnate her, then a year later when you feel stressed leave them both to fend for themselves?

That is the kind of person you are sounding like.
 
2012-06-17 11:47:29 PM

CasperImproved: xebeche_tzu: Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.

How about not leaving a promise unfulfilled? Do you purchase the mortgage on a house, find a better one a year later and expect the first bank to let you out of the contract?

Do you marry someone, impregnate her, then a year later when you feel stressed leave them both to fend for themselves?

That is the kind of person you are sounding like.



No, it sounds like he became religious and anti-war, and wanted out of the organization he joined because of it.

It's like becoming an exec at a bank then realizing the only thing you're doing to make a profit is screw over poor people.
 
2012-06-17 11:49:56 PM

AtlanticCoast63: GizmoToy: AtlanticCoast63: A deserter is never, ever forgotten.

Ever.

Except when they are, like after Vietnam.


Except they weren't. Draft dodgers were extended an amnesty, deserters weren't. If they had been forgotten, there would'nt be an estimated 50K draft dodgers/deserters still in Canada and overseas. Every last one of the deserters has a file, and every last one of them is subject to arrest if they ever set foot here again. Are we actively looking for them? Nope. Will we treat them as they deserve if we run across one? Probably not. Any of the Vietnam era deserters would probably be detained for a few days(and not likely in a jail, but in visitors' quarters at a military post) until they were discharged. But they have not been forgotten. They have committed a Federal offense with no statute of limitations, and it doesn't just go away.


So, those individuals who had been taught all of their lives that the right thing to do, when drafted, was to report for duty; those individuals who tried their utmost to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with what they and their community believed was the right thing to do only to, sadly, learn the hard way that, when faced with the reality of war, they no longer believed participating was the morally correct action: these people are to be punished more harshly than those who simply refused to comply with the draft to begin with?

Why does that seem unjust to me?
 
2012-06-17 11:59:26 PM

intelligent comment below: CasperImproved: xebeche_tzu: Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.

How about not leaving a promise unfulfilled? Do you purchase the mortgage on a house, find a better one a year later and expect the first bank to let you out of the contract?

Do you marry someone, impregnate her, then a year later when you feel stressed leave them both to fend for themselves?

That is the kind of person you are sounding like.


No, it sounds like he became religious and anti-war, and wanted out of the organization he joined because of it.

It's like becoming an exec at a bank then realizing the only thing you're doing to make a profit is screw over poor people.


I resent that analogy. Just because your company exec changes, doesn't mean you get to erase your current obligations.

So I guess the appropriate thing to do is look for a new job, and when your contract was over, move on to the next phase in your life.

Have an epiphany as often as you like. But honor your current obligations before acting on the new direction.
 
2012-06-17 11:59:29 PM

CasperImproved: xebeche_tzu: Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.

How about not leaving a promise unfulfilled? Do you purchase the mortgage on a house, find a better one a year later and expect the first bank to let you out of the contract?

Do you marry someone, impregnate her, then a year later when you feel stressed leave them both to fend for themselves?

That is the kind of person you are sounding like.


Assuming the church he joined is Christian, Christians aren't supposed to make promises or swear. They are to let their yea be yea and their nay be nay. In other words, yes, they are supposed to keep their word, but you are not to make a promise or swear because unforeseen circumstances could prevent you keeping that promise. In this situation, his conscience prevented him keeping his promise. His new relationship with G-d no longer permitted him to serve in the Air Force.

And I think I should stop there because I know at least one person I have newly put on my favorite list tonight finds religion offensive. Considering that, I'd rather not go on a one person revival here on FARK.
 
2012-06-18 12:15:34 AM

unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".


Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.
 
2012-06-18 12:23:20 AM

Lunaville: CasperImproved: xebeche_tzu: Yes, subby. The dumbest thing you could ever do is leave the corporate killing machine's service.

How about not leaving a promise unfulfilled? Do you purchase the mortgage on a house, find a better one a year later and expect the first bank to let you out of the contract?

Do you marry someone, impregnate her, then a year later when you feel stressed leave them both to fend for themselves?

That is the kind of person you are sounding like.

Assuming the church he joined is Christian, Christians aren't supposed to make promises or swear. They are to let their yea be yea and their nay be nay. In other words, yes, they are supposed to keep their word, but you are not to make a promise or swear because unforeseen circumstances could prevent you keeping that promise. In this situation, his conscience prevented him keeping his promise. His new relationship with G-d no longer permitted him to serve in the Air Force.

And I think I should stop there because I know at least one person I have newly put on my favorite list tonight finds religion offensive. Considering that, I'd rather not go on a one person revival here on FARK.


Nothing wrong for being honest. I wish you well.

For the oath breaker? I have no respect.
 
2012-06-18 12:27:15 AM

CasperImproved: to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.


Disillusionment is a good thing.
 
2012-06-18 12:32:44 AM

dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.


The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.
 
2012-06-18 12:35:16 AM

CasperImproved: obamadidcoke: So what, a young man found pacifism and he made a commitment to it. I respect that.
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right and moral even if it costs you.

I served in the army in the first gulf war and there is no honor in war, its mean and dirty and I hope that my son never has to be a part of it.

The cold war is over let's all just go home.

Then your decision process lacks maturity.

Sure dude.
You make some a promise to a vague concept when you are 18-19 years old and you can't change?
Eighteen year olds make mistakes all of the time, who cares?


Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.


I don't know he followed his beliefs even though he knew that he would never be able to go home. Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.
 
2012-06-18 12:45:36 AM

GizmoToy: AtlanticCoast63: A deserter is never, ever forgotten.

Ever.

Except when they are, like after Vietnam.


But to be fair, we (sort of) gave those guys a pass because the goal with them generally was simply avoiding getting shipped over someplace to kill peasants, and to be fair, something they didn't sign up for but rather were forced into.
Signing up and taking the oath voluntarily, then (likely) actively committing treason by selling out their country to an avowed enemy is a different kettle of fish entirely.
 
2012-06-18 12:49:14 AM

obamadidcoke: CasperImproved: obamadidcoke: So what, a young man found pacifism and he made a commitment to it. I respect that.
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right and moral even if it costs you.

I served in the army in the first gulf war and there is no honor in war, its mean and dirty and I hope that my son never has to be a part of it.

The cold war is over let's all just go home.

Then your decision process lacks maturity.

Sure dude.
You make some a promise to a vague concept when you are 18-19 years old and you can't change?
Eighteen year olds make mistakes all of the time, who cares?


Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.

I don't know he followed his beliefs even though he knew that he would never be able to go home. Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.


I really don't care if he followed his "beliefs". He made an oath, and did not follow through. He ran away like a coward. A coward is... a coward does. And crawling back asking for a basement position does not garner anyone's respect (family not included).
 
2012-06-18 01:02:55 AM
Who the hell deserts the Air Force?

People compete for those jobs.
 
2012-06-18 01:43:09 AM

CasperImproved: dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.

The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.


And yet, we allow people to get out of marriages and mortgage commitments in this country all the time. We don't have debtor's prisons. We don't hang people for divorcing.

I support this man's right to make decisions I would never make. It doesn't say anything about me other than the fact that I don't believe in projecting my sense of right and wrong onto other people. We live in a free country, and one of the difficult things about living in a free state is that we sometimes have to put up with people who make life choices we would never make.

The government does not own its employees. And yes, it is a job. Service members are paid a salary in exchange for a particular service. The government is the only entity in this country that is allowed to treat its employees this way.
 
2012-06-18 03:33:53 AM

The WindowLicker: krackpipe: True. 6913th Electronic Security Squadron. The trend these days (post 9/11) is to spare no expense even on those who merely embarrass us, eg Assange. That policy arguably backfires by making us look hypocritical or overzealous. But Hemler apparently had real EEFI, and thereby the capability to have caused damage, even inadvertently. We'll see.

Also, SIGINT was a huge deal during the cold war. The various units that flew the collection planes lost a fair number of men when the planes were shot down. While things had somewhat cooled down by the 80's, there were people being killed to obtain the information he was supposed to protect.

I have no idea what his deal is, but I can see why the Air Force has not forgotten. I just was at the memorial ceremony for the "Turbulent Turtle" a short time back. The "Turtle" was a SIGINT plane shot down in 1950, the government does not forget.


No doubt. Your service is appreciated, by the way. Here's to having made it through safely.
 
2012-06-18 04:15:51 AM

DarkVader: Little thing called the 13th amendment, bans slavery. Even slavery you sell yourself into.


Yeah, but we created a whole separate legal system to apply to such slaves, so it's all but impossible to prosecute such a case.

And if you can't threaten to ruin people's lives for leaving or disobeying it can be difficult to motivate them to risk their lives, at least absent a genuine threat or really good pay. Which is bad if you intend to use the military for political purposes (as those with political power have done for centuries).
 
2012-06-18 04:44:05 AM

CasperImproved:
Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.


Applies to every divorced person in the world.
 
2012-06-18 06:55:12 AM

dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.

The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.

And yet, we allow people to get out of marriages and mortgage commitments in this country all the time. We don't have debtor's prisons. We don't hang people for divorcing.

I support this man's right to make decisions I would never make. It doesn't say anything about me other than the fact that I don't believe in projecting my sense of right and wrong onto other people. We live in a free country, and one of the difficult things about living in a free state is that we sometimes have to put up with people who make life choices we would never make.

The government does not own its employees. And yes, it is a job ...


What we legally allow (and dislike while doing) is not the same as what we morally condemn and consider treasonous.

You can support all you want. You being lenient with a coward that does not deal with his obligations does not change the facts. He made an oath to his country. Instead of being honorable, he ran like a coward to Europe to escape his punishment.

And no.. being in the military is not just a job.

/How do I know you have never given service... Your words. It precludes your honor. Do you have any?
//Glad you were not one my rights depended on
///I'm okay that you don't serve. But don't show up to the party if you don't have the stones


You personally can support this decision of a coward all you like. But it does not change the stripes of his offense. In time of war, he would diserve a bullet. In peace time, he deserves to at least spend an equivalent time in prison.
 
2012-06-18 07:07:30 AM

orbister: CasperImproved:
Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.

Applies to every divorced person in the world.


But you being a bad spouse does not equate. My ex would not be the reason I am enslaved, or made to live as someone else dictates because of her choice to cut & run.

/I am a little sad you do not see the difference
 
2012-06-18 08:10:28 AM

obamadidcoke: CasperImproved: obamadidcoke: So what, a young man found pacifism and he made a commitment to it. I respect that.
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right and moral even if it costs you.

I served in the army in the first gulf war and there is no honor in war, its mean and dirty and I hope that my son never has to be a part of it.

The cold war is over let's all just go home.

Then your decision process lacks maturity.

Sure dude.
You make some a promise to a vague concept when you are 18-19 years old and you can't change?
Eighteen year olds make mistakes all of the time, who cares?


Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.

I don't know he followed his beliefs even though he knew that he would never be able to go home. Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.


I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.
 
2012-06-18 08:52:34 AM

Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.


[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]
 
2012-06-18 09:04:42 AM
There are plenty of legal options to leave the military, this guy was just a pussy who didn't realize the ramifications of his deserting and wasn't smart enough to get out properly. He just ran. The details of his comm/intel job are unknown so don't speculate.

Don't ever come back to the US.
 
2012-06-18 09:19:52 AM

way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]


Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.
 
2012-06-18 10:14:02 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I think he was an especially stupid twenty-something-year-old and he deserves the AWOL branding, but I would agree with him that living 28 years in lies is punishment enough.


Even the disloyal fark himself doesn't think so:
"Sweden is a fantastic country for people like myself. Many people think it's been horrible for me to carry this secret for such a long time, but I have mostly missed my parents," he told Dagens Nyhter newspaper, according to the Local.
 
TWX
2012-06-18 10:16:35 AM

casual disregard:
Also this is the busiest pic I've seen all day:
[blogs.reuters.com image 640x434]


Hmmm... Now we know what happens when one locks a padlock on somoene's gauge ear piercing...

WTF was actually going on?
 
2012-06-18 10:29:11 AM

CasperImproved: dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.

The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.

And yet, we allow people to get out of marriages and mortgage commitments in this country all the time. We don't have debtor's prisons. We don't hang people for divorcing.

I support this man's right to make decisions I would never make. It doesn't say anything about me other than the fact that I don't believe in projecting my sense of right and wrong onto other people. We live in a free country, and one of the difficult things about living in a free state is that we sometimes have to put up with people who make life choices we would never make.

The government does not own its employees. And yes, i ...


Questioning my honor because I disagree with you. Classy.

I do not abandon my commitments. I have been married for 5 years, have 2 young sons and am in it for the long haul.

That doesn't mean my life choices are for everybody.

Walking off his job and abandoning his obligations makes him a piece of shiat. It should not make him a criminal. People are allowed to change the course of their own lives in this country. That's one of the things that makes it so great. Also, I didn't say there should be no punishment for leaving. But this punishment should be financially-based, not jail-based. Make him pay back the cost of his training, or at least the cost of his room & board.
 
2012-06-18 10:30:24 AM

Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.


My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?
 
2012-06-18 10:32:14 AM

Fail in Human Form: obamadidcoke: CasperImproved: obamadidcoke: So what, a young man found pacifism and he made a commitment to it. I respect that.
Sometimes you have to do what you think is right and moral even if it costs you.

I served in the army in the first gulf war and there is no honor in war, its mean and dirty and I hope that my son never has to be a part of it.

The cold war is over let's all just go home.

Then your decision process lacks maturity.

Sure dude.
You make some a promise to a vague concept when you are 18-19 years old and you can't change?
Eighteen year olds make mistakes all of the time, who cares?


Make an oath you can't honor? You don't diserve respect. Sorta like deadbeat dads.

I hope your son also does not have to be "part of" the ugly thing war is. But if he swears an oath, he should honor it (and himself) by completing that obligation.

But if you make a promise (oath), you should honor it. Do what you will when your obligation is over, but to run away and cry "I a disillusioned!" is an excuse for cowardice, and deserves no ones respect.

I don't know he followed his beliefs even though he knew that he would never be able to go home. Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.


If we threw people in jail simply because you don't respect their decisions, most of this country would be in the slammer.
 
2012-06-18 10:34:28 AM

way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?


Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
 
2012-06-18 10:36:37 AM

milowitz: There are plenty of legal options to leave the military, this guy was just a pussy who didn't realize the ramifications of his deserting and wasn't smart enough to get out properly. He just ran. The details of his comm/intel job are unknown so don't speculate.

Don't ever come back to the US.


He should have just pretended he was gay.
 
2012-06-18 10:50:04 AM

dave2198: way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?

Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.


The crime is desertion, and the punishment would be fitting if he risked a chance of serving it. He outsmarted the system and got away with it.
Good for him.

If he wants to make right with his peers and his government, there's a trial room waiting for him.
You don't ern respect for walking off on the job.
 
2012-06-18 10:55:36 AM
This guy deserves the DUMBASS tag. You wanna leave the military? Just get fat, don't pass your PFT, and get chaptered out. Its that simple.

Dishonorable discharges are easier than you think.
 
2012-06-18 10:55:49 AM
Kansas is calling.
 
2012-06-18 11:11:54 AM

ShonenBat: This guy deserves the DUMBASS tag. You wanna leave the military? Just get fat, don't pass your PFT, and get chaptered out. Its that simple.

Dishonorable discharges are easier than you think.


Those wouldn't even be dishonourable discharges. They would be, at worst, general OTH (more likely general UHC, quite possibly honourable). A bad conduct discharge and the even more severe dishonourable discharge can only be ordered as part of a sentence on conviction of qualifying offences by a court martial - and no, not all of the UCMJ's punitive articles permit BCDs, much less DDs. The worst you can get administratively is a general discharge under other than honourable conditions (general OTH). You lose a few of the VA benefits and still fewer state benefits; it's mostly just symbolic.

You are otherwise correct, though. If he wanted to get out, he could have done so. There's some paperwork, some waiting, some being stuck on crappy duties during the process, but within a few months, he would have been out, and he wouldn't have been in any position to be forced to hurt his fellow man (as he claims was his motive) during that process.

Instead, he ditched his post in a sensitive unit (his actual MOS is unknown, but even the cooks and personnel clerks in a SIGINT unit would have required at least a secret clearance if not a TS-SBI) on the near-frontier from our avowed adversary if not enemy.
 
2012-06-18 11:21:35 AM

dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.

The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.

And yet, we allow people to get out of marriages and mortgage commitments in this country all the time. We don't have debtor's prisons. We don't hang people for divorcing.

I support this man's right to make decisions I would never make. It doesn't say anything about me other than the fact that I don't believe in projecting my sense of right and wrong onto other people. We live in a free country, and one of the difficult things about living in a free state is that we sometimes have to put up with people who make life choices we would never make.

The government does not own its employ ...


What would make you understand that he promised to defend your right to your opinion, and then ran away? And that his running away diminished you.?

The consequence to every (any) one running away from defending your rights is that you have none and the first butt-head country to realize that we all have no honor or respect is to make you their biatch.

Think what you want. But the lapse in defending what is yours will result in you being theirs.
 
2012-06-18 11:25:02 AM

way south: dave2198: way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?

Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The crime is desertion, and the punishment would be fitting if he risked a chance of serving it. He outsmarted the system and got away with it.
Good for him.

If he wants to make right with his peers and his government, there's a trial room waiting for him.
You don't ern respect for walking off on the job.


You also shouldn't have to go to jail for it... since it's a job.
 
2012-06-18 11:31:14 AM

CasperImproved: dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: CasperImproved: dave2198: unicron702: Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".

Not even close, moran. People have the right to change the direction of their own life. It's called freedom, and it's the thing our military is supposed to be defending. Have you forgotten this already?

The government does not own you because you volunteered to serve the country.

Read that sentence again, slowly, until it sinks in.

Oftentimes, recruiters flat-out lie to recruits. So no, people do not always know what they are getting into. The contract they have you sign is just a contract, not a blood oath.

Some of you people assign way too much importance to a J.O.B. A government job no less. The irony of that last part makes me giggle on the inside.

The military is not a J.O.B.

It is a commitment. Just like marriage or a mortgage since I seem to use those as examples here.

I will say that you seem from your words to be as flighty as the subject of this article, and would flee to some point out of jurisdiction if you had a change of heart.

Let me say I am glad you didn't put yourself in the place to make a commitment. I would respect you for that.

What you may not understand? I would respect you for choosing not to give service. I will NOT respect you for making the commitment and then moving to Sweden to avoid dealing with your decision.

And yet, we allow people to get out of marriages and mortgage commitments in this country all the time. We don't have debtor's prisons. We don't hang people for divorcing.

I support this man's right to make decisions I would never make. It doesn't say anything about me other than the fact that I don't believe in projecting my sense of right and wrong onto other people. We live in a free country, and one of the difficult things about living in a free state is that we sometimes have to put up with people who make life choices we would never make.

The government does not own its employ ...


I didn't know military types could be so melodramatic. Jesus. One guy left his job. This does not "embolden the enemy". The problem is you place more value on these things than you should. There are more important callings in life than serving in the military.
 
2012-06-18 11:47:19 AM

dave2198: way south: dave2198: way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?

Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The crime is desertion, and the punishment would be fitting if he risked a chance of serving it. He outsmarted the system and got away with it.
Good for him.

If he wants to make right with his peers and his government, there's a trial room waiting for him.
You don't ern respect for walking off on the job.

You also shouldn't have to go to jail for it... since it's a job.


I can think of a few jobs you might go to jail for deserting.
...or at the least get sued and blackballed over.

/Air traffic controller, surgeon, police officer, train engineer, refinery operations, etc...
/Lives depend on military officers doing their job, where's the difference?
/They go to military courts? Doubled farked then, arnt ya.
 
2012-06-18 12:08:13 PM

way south: dave2198: way south: dave2198: way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?

Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The crime is desertion, and the punishment would be fitting if he risked a chance of serving it. He outsmarted the system and got away with it.
Good for him.

If he wants to make right with his peers and his government, there's a trial room waiting for him.
You don't ern respect for walking off on the job.

You also shouldn't have to go to jail for it... since it's a job.

I can think of a few jobs you might go to jail for deserting.
...or at the least get sued and blackballed over.

/Air traffic controller, surgeon, police officer, train engineer, refinery operations, etc...
/Lives depend on military officers doing their job, where's the difference?
/They go to military courts? Doubled fa ...


The difference is that you don't go to prison for walking away from those jobs. Because they're just JOBS in the end. If you want to own your employees, rather than just hire them, you need to a) make slavery legal and b) pay them a lot more.
 
2012-06-18 12:10:19 PM

Clunge: Lots of Internet Tough Guys here who never served in the military blasting this guy. Rather amusing to see someone who is too pussy to sign up talking smack about this guy.


I served in the military at approximately the same time frame, just a bit after (mid to late 1980's) in a tougher branch (Army), doing the same sort of job (Signals Intelligence).

The guy is a pussy. Worse, by virtue of what he likely did, he had access to some of the most sensitive secrets the Air Force, and the United States in general, had.

To reiterate: He's a pussy, and worse he's one that could have caused serious damage to US interests, and I say that as someone who has been there, done that, and who has the commemorative beer mug to prove it.
 
2012-06-18 12:20:49 PM

dave2198: way south: dave2198: way south: dave2198: way south: Fail in Human Form: way south: Fail in Human Form:
Oh, and going up against the might of the U.S. government is not the act of a coward.

I have more respect for someone who stays true to their beliefs despite the overwhelming pressure, and possible consequences, than someone who stays the course because they're afraid of the consequences.

[insert picture of Osama bin Ladin, Ted kazynsky, or Timothy McVeigh here]

Mass murders may fit into that category but I don't respect them. It also has no bearing on the point I made.

My trolling aside, the point you made needs to be narrowed down.

There were draft dodgers who stayed in the US and tried to fight the system, went to jail, we're forced into the service or had their lives ruined by the government while standing up for their beliefs.
This guy ran off and enjoyed his life elsewhere.
There's no medals for that.
You don't get honored in stone with the thousands of reluctant warriors who served their nation and caught a bullet for their troubles. You don't become a rebelious legend like the draft dodgers who took it on the chin and faced the consequences.

There isn't anything respectable in his actions. Why shouldn't he face the consequences?

Because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The crime is desertion, and the punishment would be fitting if he risked a chance of serving it. He outsmarted the system and got away with it.
Good for him.

If he wants to make right with his peers and his government, there's a trial room waiting for him.
You don't ern respect for walking off on the job.

You also shouldn't have to go to jail for it... since it's a job.

I can think of a few jobs you might go to jail for deserting.
...or at the least get sued and blackballed over.

/Air traffic controller, surgeon, police officer, train engineer, refinery operations, etc...
/Lives depend on military officers doing their job, where's the difference?
/They go to military courts? ...


The really sad thing is? You are stupid enough to think it is just a JOB.

Punishment? Crime?

How about you examine your purpose in life. I would guess it does not include any words like bravery, courage, honesty, or even appreciated.

What do you provide to the community that they would not be better off doing without?

I am guessing you have no words......
 
Displayed 50 of 241 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report