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(Reuters)   USAF deserter comes in from the cold after 28 years because it's really cold in Sweden. Tag is for deserting in the first place   (reuters.com) divider line 240
    More: Dumbass, Sweden, United States, residence permit, permanent residence, air forces, U.S. Air Force  
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14090 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 3:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-17 04:39:30 PM  
You know who else didn't finish his cushy fly-boy tour of duty?

www.fishandcheese.com
 
2012-06-17 04:40:28 PM  

dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.


He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?
 
2012-06-17 04:41:34 PM  

buckler: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

Yeah, there's that whole "Oath of Office" thing, signatures on contracts, and multiple IRL versions of the "Are you sure you want to perform this operation?" thing.


And he agreed to all of that, then walked away. What's left to discuss?
 
2012-06-17 04:42:35 PM  

larrycot: He went to Sweden.... And married a Thai? Dumbass tag indeed.


==============

Yeah, those Asian women are all nice and submissive until you say, "I do." Then it's nag, biatch, nag, biatch, nag biatch........just like all the rest of them......so yeah, he's a dumb-fark.
 
2012-06-17 04:43:38 PM  
He had decided to come forward after his third daughter turned two and could go to day care, so his wife would be better able to cope if he was arrested.

Tag is for deserting in the first place.


Oh no it isn't.
 
2012-06-17 04:46:23 PM  

gogurt666: Dumbass indeed. Who joins the military and doesn't want to be part of the military??? A retard that's who. He disappeared from the "6913th Electronic Security Squadron" not the Marines. He wasn't engaging in hand-to-hand combat and mowing down gooks with a M60. Fark this cry baby!


/gooks
//lulz
 
2012-06-17 04:47:53 PM  

unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?


When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.
 
2012-06-17 04:48:20 PM  

TheBigJerk: Clunge: Lots of Internet Tough Guys here who never served in the military blasting this guy. Rather amusing to see someone who is too pussy to sign up talking smack about this guy.

Sgt Otter is currently serving.

Last I checked.

Anyways, FTFA: after getting involved with a pacifist church and becoming disillusioned with the policies of former President Ronald Reagan.

Religion is a helluva drug.

After his desertion, he became one of the U.S. Air Force's eight most wanted fugitives, according to the newspaper, and had expected at any time to be arrested by military police with both Interpol and Europol looking for him.

Do they just not have many fugitives? Or what? I mean fundamentally all the guy did was run out, and while that's a crime, it doesn't seem like hunting the man down would be cost-effective if all he's doing is hiding from you.


It was during the cold war and he knew some pretty sensitive things.
 
2012-06-17 04:51:06 PM  

dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.


Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.
 
2012-06-17 04:52:18 PM  
Somebody deserted from the Air Force in 1984?

Um, why?

Also this is the busiest pic I've seen all day:
blogs.reuters.com
 
2012-06-17 04:55:10 PM  

unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.


Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because 'merica.
 
2012-06-17 04:55:20 PM  
I understand that do to the nature of the military desertion has to be treated as a major crime, and therefore I don't think you can just let something like this slide, although perhaps a statute of limitations might be established. (I have nothing against draft dodgers on the other hand, they didn't sign up). Still, I think in times of relative peace, there should be a method for someone who has a change of conscience to leave the military. They should have to pay off any training they got, just like a student loan, and do some other sort of service for the country for the remainder of their tour. Unless he was deserting to avoid deployment to that horrible war in Grenada or Panama I think there should have been a better option.
 
2012-06-17 04:55:47 PM  

unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.


Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because you don't use your brain.
 
2012-06-17 04:56:17 PM  

casual disregard: Somebody deserted from the Air Force in 1984?

Um, why?

Also this is the busiest pic I've seen all day:
[blogs.reuters.com image 640x434]


What makes it better/worse is the guy taking pictures and/or filming this with his cell phone.

/the cell phone has a farking One Piece sticker on it, too.
 
2012-06-17 04:56:47 PM  

Somaticasual: Second, Look at how many congressmans' sons never sign up, and get back to us on the equality of duty among citizens.


I hate his argument. So you're saying that if my father was a congressman, that I should automatically have to sign up out of some sort of misplaced duty?
 
2012-06-17 04:58:46 PM  
At least he picked better than this clown. Desertion to North Korea is its own punishment.
 
2012-06-17 04:59:35 PM  

TheBigJerk: Do they just not have many fugitives? Or what? I mean fundamentally all the guy did was run out, and while that's a crime, it doesn't seem like hunting the man down would be cost-effective if all he's doing is hiding from you.



It's two fold. No, they don't have many fugitives; such is the nature of military service. Unless one of your crimes is desertion or AWOL, the military has pretty good control over where you are. There is no bail or bond under the UCMJ and pre-trial confinement is quite rare.

The other part of the equation is his MOS & duties. Unlike an infantryman, cook, truck mechanic, paralegal specialist, he was in crypto. He had knowledge that, at the time, was of interest to the Soviets, East Germans and the Warsaw Pact in general (how much interest is hard to say). Another aspect of this is that when he deserted, the perfectly reasonable assumption on the part of his command and OSI is that he defected.
 
2012-06-17 05:00:47 PM  
Deserted in 1984? From the USAF? Doubt any one in the military really cares.
 
2012-06-17 05:01:26 PM  
Meh generally if you desert and evade for 5 or more years what they do is process you on a dishonorable discharge and boot ya to the curb, unless you committed some other crime or managed to really piss off someone in your chain of command with enough juice to get you court martialed, the general consensus is the restrictions a dishonorable discharge puts on your employment opportunities is enough punishment so why should we waste more resources on your worthless ass.

/assigned as a paperwork monkey for the JaG office while I was being processed for medical discharge, saw a few deserters go through the system, read some files on some others.
//hey my knee was immobilized in a contraption that looked like it was designed by the Marquis de Sade, bolts going into the bone everywhere and they gave me fecking tylenol, I needed distraction, even boring distractions.
 
2012-06-17 05:03:12 PM  
How can be a deserter? There are no deserts in Sweden.
 
2012-06-17 05:03:41 PM  

Gumaraid: Deserted in 1984? From the USAF? Doubt any one in the military really cares.


He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list
 
2012-06-17 05:04:18 PM  
Best used of Dumbass tag in a long time.
 
2012-06-17 05:06:39 PM  

dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.

Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because you don't use your brain.


So you have no middle ground? No attempt at motivation? No attempt at building pride or happiness in the workplace? The first sign of trouble and you're cut loose? You're crossing the line from boredom in the workplace into an area of sensitive material compromise. Was it your attempt to be this extreme? You've gone from an unhappy worker into a security threat. Try to find that happy medium. If an employee isn't happy, try to talk it out with them. You're essentially saying a dissatisfied employee is walking out bitter, and with trade secrets. I don't see it like that. Did we move right past trying to make them enjoy their jobs and directly into espionage?
 
2012-06-17 05:09:30 PM  

StrikitRich: Gumaraid: Deserted in 1984? From the USAF? Doubt any one in the military really cares.

He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list


just looked that up, says security issue, either they think he sold out to the Soviets (not a irrational assumption in the 80s,) or he took some gear with him, if neither is the case then like I said earlier generally they will just process him, slap a dishonorable discharge into his file and say have a nice day.
 
2012-06-17 05:13:43 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: It's two fold. No, they don't have many fugitives; such is the nature of military service. Unless one of your crimes is desertion or AWOL, the military has pretty good control over where you are. There is no bail or bond under the UCMJ and pre-trial confinement is quite rare.

The other part of the equation is his MOS & duties. Unlike an infantryman, cook, truck mechanic, paralegal specialist, he was in crypto. He had knowledge that, at the time, was of interest to the Soviets, East Germans and the Warsaw Pact in general (how much interest is hard to say). Another aspect of this is that when he deserted, the perfectly reasonable assumption on the part of his command and OSI is that he defected.


This. Honestly, even without defecting to the Soviets he probably did a lot of actual damage - given what he worked with, they may have been forced to research and change codes that would not have been changed for years, including some that may have been hardwired.

Besides - quite honestly, how do we know that he didn't defect to the Soviets? They could've set him up in a posh setup as their equivalent to a witness protection program, and by now the evidence would pretty much all be gone.
 
2012-06-17 05:13:50 PM  

unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.

Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because you don't use your brain.

So you have no middle ground? No attempt at motivation? No attempt at building pride or happiness in the workplace? The first sign of trouble and you're cut loose? You're crossing the line from boredom in the workplace into an area of sensitive mater ...


Right, the military is going to "talk it out with him"? LOL. The military encourages one to find happiness in the workplace? LOL.

And do you think I was talking about someone leaving out of boredom? REALLY?

Like I said, you're not using your brain.
 
2012-06-17 05:14:39 PM  

JPINFV: Somaticasual: Second, Look at how many congressmans' sons never sign up, and get back to us on the equality of duty among citizens.

I hate his argument. So you're saying that if my father was a congressman, that I should automatically have to sign up out of some sort of misplaced duty?


If your father sends people to war to die but wouldn't send or let his own child go to war, then it's almost demeaning in the level of hypocrisy. It's not really a moral quandary built around the son's choice.
 
2012-06-17 05:14:46 PM  

JWideman: TheBigJerk: Clunge: Lots of Internet Tough Guys here who never served in the military blasting this guy. Rather amusing to see someone who is too pussy to sign up talking smack about this guy.

Sgt Otter is currently serving.

Last I checked.

Anyways, FTFA: after getting involved with a pacifist church and becoming disillusioned with the policies of former President Ronald Reagan.

Religion is a helluva drug.

After his desertion, he became one of the U.S. Air Force's eight most wanted fugitives, according to the newspaper, and had expected at any time to be arrested by military police with both Interpol and Europol looking for him.

Do they just not have many fugitives? Or what? I mean fundamentally all the guy did was run out, and while that's a crime, it doesn't seem like hunting the man down would be cost-effective if all he's doing is hiding from you.

It was during the cold war and he knew some pretty sensitive things.


We have a winner. Please check out Davey's deserter page over at http://www.osi.andrews.af.mil/library/fugitives/hemler.asp

Oh, no, please take your time. I'll wait.

Ah, good, you're back. Did you see the part about "security issue"? My guess is that the nice religious girl he was hanging out with when he bailed was convincing him to give her information. My guess is that he'll be allowed to come home - Sweden won't extradite him for desertion, their laws and traditions won't allow it, and I am perfectly fine with that - to "just tie up loose ends." When he gets off the plane, he'll be arrested under Article 106a of the UCMJ, to wit:

(a) (1) Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, any thing described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns (A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack, (B) war plans, (C) communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or (D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct.
(2) An entity referred to in paragraph (1) is-
(A) a foreign government;
(B) a faction or party or military force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States
(C) a representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen of such government, faction, party, or force.
(3) A thing refereed to in paragraph (1) is a document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance or information relating to the national defense.
(b) (1) No person may be sentenced by court-martial to suffer death for an offense under this section (article) unless-
(A) the members of the court-martial unanimously find at least one of the aggravating factors set out in subsection (c); and
(B) the members unanimously determine that any extenuating or mitigating circumstances are substantially outweighed by any aggravating circumstances, including the aggravating factors set out under subsection (c).
(2) Findings under this subsection may be based on-
(A) evidence introduced on the issue of guilt or innocence;
(B) evidence introduced during the sentencing proceeding; or
(C) all such evidence.
(3) The accused shall be given broad latitude to present matters in extenuation and mitigation.
(c) A sentence of death may be adjudged by a court-martial for an offense under this section (article) only if the members unanimously find, beyond a reasonable doubt, one or more of the following aggravating factors:
(1) The accused has been convicted of another offense involving espionage or treason for which either a sentence of death or imprisonment for life was authorized by statute.
(2) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of substantial damage to the national security.
(3) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person.
(4) Any other factor that may be prescribed by the President by regulations under section 836 of this title (Article 36).


Oh yes, the USAF will be able to arrest him. He is legally still in the USAF, he's never been discharged, retired, or otherwise separated.

And then, in a very small room with some very quiet, unpleasant men standing around him, they're going to show him a dusty file that details everything he handed over.

A deserter is never, ever forgotten.

Ever.
 
2012-06-17 05:15:24 PM  

doglover: The president is nice and all, but just because someone's elected doesn't mean they're worth your life. No wars going on, no desire to kill strangers, no leader you respect in the Oval Office. I can see why he left.


This jackass' job (had he actually done it) was the kind that saved lives and negated the killing of strangers.

He was in the 6913th Electronic Security Squadron in Augsburg, Germany. What do you think that was? They collected and processed signals intelligence (SIGINT) from the other side of the Iron Curtain. For nearly half a century, the two most destructively powerful militaries had a Mexican stand-off. The Cold War was an uneasy truce that nearly came to global Armageddon more than once. Good intel was vital to keeping the peace. Paranoia, miss-assumptions, reasonable but inaccurate fears, and uncertainties were as dangerous as ICBMs; good intel protected the world against them.

Hemler's duty was preventing war, and he walked away from his post.
 
2012-06-17 05:16:27 PM  
www.osi.andrews.af.mil

He can't even grow a mustache...
 
2012-06-17 05:20:56 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: [www.osi.andrews.af.mil image 238x190]
He can't even grow a mustache...


I believe that's called a molester moustache or "molestache".
 
2012-06-17 05:23:21 PM  
StrikitRich: Gumaraid: Deserted in 1984? From the USAF? Doubt any one in the military really cares.

He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list

just looked that up, says security issue, either they think he sold out to the Soviets (not a irrational assumption in the 80s,) or he took some gear with him, if neither is the case then like I said earlier generally they will just process him, slap a dishonorable discharge into his file and say have a nice day.


StrikitRich: Gumaraid: Deserted in 1984? From the USAF? Doubt any one in the military really cares.

He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list

just looked that up, says security issue, either they think he sold out to the Soviets (not a irrational assumption in the 80s,) or he took some gear with him, if neither is the case then like I said earlier generally they will just process him, slap a dishonorable discharge into his file and say have a nice day.

Pretty much this. I'm inclined to think that if they still have him on the 8 most wanted list after all this time, he did a major no-no and sold out something vital he had access to over to the Eastern-bloc

\No sympathy for deserters. He wasn't drafted, he made a concious choice to serve.
 
2012-06-17 05:23:47 PM  

Somaticasual: JPINFV: Somaticasual: Second, Look at how many congressmans' sons never sign up, and get back to us on the equality of duty among citizens.

I hate his argument. So you're saying that if my father was a congressman, that I should automatically have to sign up out of some sort of misplaced duty?

If your father sends people to war to die but wouldn't send or let his own child go to war, then it's almost demeaning in the level of hypocrisy. It's not really a moral quandary built around the son's choice.


I agree with the point that if a father wouldn't send his son to war then he shouldn't send anyone to war, but that's not how it's ever constructed in a discussion. It's always constructed as, "Look at those congressmen who's children aren't in the military" like the children should lose their choice to join or not simply because of their parents profession. It ranks up there with the, "If you aren't in the military then you can't complain" argument in terms of pants on head stupid.
 
2012-06-17 05:24:34 PM  

HoratioGates: I understand that do to the nature of the military desertion has to be treated as a major crime, and therefore I don't think you can just let something like this slide, although perhaps a statute of limitations might be established. (I have nothing against draft dodgers on the other hand, they didn't sign up). Still, I think in times of relative peace, there should be a method for someone who has a change of conscience to leave the military. They should have to pay off any training they got, just like a student loan, and do some other sort of service for the country for the remainder of their tour. Unless he was deserting to avoid deployment to that horrible war in Grenada or Panama I think there should have been a better option.


What about conscientious objector status? It sounds like he could have appealed his enlistment on grounds of that? Yes, I know that's normally a consideration for draft boards to allow draftees who are serious pacifists to not be forced to choose between violating their conscience or going to jail, but I wonder if there isn't some administrative procedure for investigating claims of a change of conscience of people already in the military and then giving these people an honorable/or at least not dishonorable discharge if their pacifism is found to be legit?
 
2012-06-17 05:25:13 PM  
Try him in a military court and throw his ass in prison. He wasn't conscripted.

What an asshole.
 
2012-06-17 05:32:06 PM  

Clunge: Lots of Internet Tough Guys here who never served in the military blasting this guy. Rather amusing to see someone who is too pussy to sign up talking smack about this guy.


It's also pretty amusing to have veterans of the recent conflicts projecting their PTSD on internet forums, instead of being proactive about their health and getting appropriate treatment. Not to say that you're a vet, or that you have PTSD, but there has been an alarming increase of 20-somethings on the internet who come back from tours all farked up, looking to blame others for their issues.
 
2012-06-17 05:35:58 PM  

DrWhy: I wonder if there isn't some administrative procedure for investigating claims of a change of conscience of people already in the military and then giving these people an honorable/or at least not dishonorable discharge if their pacifism is found to be legit?


There isn't. If you volunteer, and then have a change of heart, you either finish out your contract, or you take the consequences of deserting.

/Was a religious lay leader in the Navy
//Collateral duty, not primary job, no room for actual chaplains on submarines
///Had a few guys questioning their service around 2003
 
2012-06-17 05:36:31 PM  
Life Lesson:

If you've gotten away with something that you know is illegal, just keep quiet and move on.
 
2012-06-17 05:42:23 PM  

chiett: My dream scenario is that he face a trial and 28 years in prison (Military Prison, not that cushy place with the crotch biters).

Served in that time period, nothing tuff about it.


You want to pay to confine him for 28 years?

Given his circumstances (he deserted during peacetime 28 years ago, etc) I'd say to just not let him come back.

forum.gon.com
 
2012-06-17 05:44:17 PM  

dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.

Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because you don't use your brain.


No, I'd rather them man up, tell the chaplain they are cracking, lose their clearance, get reassigned, and finish their enlistment.
 
2012-06-17 05:45:17 PM  

unicron702: Sgt Otter: He deserted from the Air Force? What, was he mad they forgot to leave a mint on his pillow?

/I keed, I keed.

They shut off the cable in the barracks and the hot tub was acting up, so he bounced. He got a medal for lasting as long as he did.



He probably got tired of spying on allied politicians and foreign corporations or supporting murderous rebels in 3rd world shiatholes. You too would probably be disillusioned after realizing everything you do is to benefit Reagan's campaign donors not "defend America"
 
2012-06-17 05:45:21 PM  

StrikitRich: He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list


They couldnt find 10 people for the list?

Wow.
 
2012-06-17 05:46:03 PM  

dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: unicron702: dave2198: cman: TravisBickle62: Where's the "HERO" tag?

If deserting the Airforce for no cause is considered a hero to you, I hate to see what your definition of a villain is

He walked away from his job. He didn't murder any children. Get some perspective.

It isn't a job. He didn't work fast food, he was supposed to defend a country. Maybe if he had been there, he would've stopped some 3rd world POS "soldier" from killing a couple of kids. So yeah, I take it back, THAT was his job. Stopping the bad guys. Instead, he dropped the ball.

His job was manning a desk in Germany. Not every soldier is Captain America.

He's directly involved, or assists those who are. It makes no difference. He knew what he was signing up for going in. He has a role to fill, and he biatched out, end of story.

Is that your only distinction? Captain America or a secretary? Those are our choices?

When soldiers become disillusioned, they don't make very good workers anymore. If the military had a safety valve in place that would allow soldiers to resign their position when they feel they no longer believe in the mission, deserting wouldn't be necessary.

Oh I agree, not just in the military but in all professions. If something becomes too hard, or you no longer want to do it, you should be able to quit, no questions asked. I mean that's ridiculous, I know when I'm facing a challenge, or I no longer want any part of it I think just walking away is the best policy.

Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?

Of course you would, because you don't use your brain.

So you have no middle ground? No attempt at motivation? No attempt at building pride or happiness in the workplace? The first sign of trouble and you're cut loose? You're crossing the line from boredom in the workplace into an area of sen ...


If by you're brain you mean the thing I use to dictate that I can't just quit when I don't like it, then so be it.
 
2012-06-17 06:01:23 PM  
After his desertion, he became one of the U.S. Air Force's eight most wanted fugitives,,,

This is why that TV show NCIS is so friggin stupid. Some bozo going AWOL puts him on the most wanted men list. Can you imagine how boring being a 'navy cop' would be? Rounding up low ranking men for not picking up their cigarette butts would be the most dangerous thing they would do all day.

As for this guy, who cares.
 
2012-06-17 06:01:27 PM  
Oh, they will get their hands on him, one way or another. Since he is wanted for desertion from the US armed services Sweden will likely turn him over. And when they do he will be facing an interrogation that most definitely won't be a pleasant experience for this turd bucket. He can kiss his Thai wife good-bye forever. And the kids.
 
2012-06-17 06:02:01 PM  

dave2198: Would you rather have someone in charge of sensitive material who hates their job, doesn't believe in the mission, and isn't allowed to leave?


You're not supposed to phrase it like that -- people like to believe that the modern world doesn't depend on slavery.
 
2012-06-17 06:04:17 PM  

space_cadet_28: StrikitRich: He's still on the USAF's 8 most wanted list

They couldnt find 10 people for the list?

Wow.


There's the Right way,

The Wrong way,

And the Military way (which is the same as the wrong way but with more yelling).

At least that how it was when I was enlisted, before actual bullets starting flying.
 
2012-06-17 06:08:32 PM  

powhound: Oh, they will get their hands on him, one way or another. Since he is wanted for desertion from the US armed services Sweden will likely turn him over. And when they do he will be facing an interrogation that most definitely won't be a pleasant experience for this turd bucket. He can kiss his Thai wife good-bye forever. And the kids.



Looks like someone didn't read TFA. so until then, STFU.
 
2012-06-17 06:13:12 PM  

AtlanticCoast63: A deserter is never, ever forgotten.

Ever.



Sounds like you need a hobby.
 
2012-06-17 06:15:03 PM  
Dave2198 is essentially getting "If you don't like it...quit".
 
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