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(AP)   Psst. Hey Buddy, over here. How would youse like to get buy some energy credits, cheap? Of course they're real, I don't deal in no fake energy credits   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 32
    More: Unlikely, federal public defender, renewable fuels, jury selection, Fred Upton, United States Attorney  
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5108 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 4:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-06-17 02:16:44 PM  
The nerve of him. Everyone knows that you have to be a C-corp to deal in fraudulent commodities.
 
2012-06-17 04:25:55 PM  
Energy credits? I blame Al GoBama
 
2012-06-17 04:26:16 PM  
Can't we just skip the pacifying verbage and just admit carbon credits and offsets are useful for two things: reallocating environmental guilt, and the tax gains. Let's not kid ourselves that they're actually helping the environment for the most part.
 
2012-06-17 04:26:20 PM  
I'm sure Al Gore and his environmental mafia are proud of what they've accomplished. But buying and selling pollution is a distortion of the market and will inevitably cause financial disaster. The ability to pollute has been free for the entirety of human civilization - forcing people to buy it is undemocratic.
 
2012-06-17 04:26:59 PM  
 
2012-06-17 04:27:59 PM  
Al Gore
Global Warming


that sums up what this thread will be about
 
2012-06-17 04:28:38 PM  
I hate reading these things. They're like spoilers for fans of CNBC's American Greed.
 
2012-06-17 04:30:55 PM  

Somaticasual: Can't we just skip the pacifying verbage and just admit carbon credits and offsets are useful for two things: reallocating environmental guilt, and the tax gains. Let's not kid ourselves that they're actually helping the environment for the most part.


media.tumblr.com
 
2012-06-17 04:41:12 PM  
Well, fraud begets fraud. The whole energy credit idea is a scam from the get go.
 
2012-06-17 04:42:55 PM  
top-people.starmedia.com

I get buy with a little help from my friends
 
2012-06-17 04:45:22 PM  

TravisBickle62: Al Gore
Global Warming


that sums up what this thread will be about


Ok, I'll play:

What are two things that are completely about making people rich by playing off of other peoples' environmental disaster fears?
 
2012-06-17 04:50:31 PM  

Gleeman: Somaticasual: Can't we just skip the pacifying verbage and just admit carbon credits and offsets are useful for two things: reallocating environmental guilt, and the tax gains. Let's not kid ourselves that they're actually helping the environment for the most part.

[media.tumblr.com image 340x480]


Actually, these aren't carbon credits. These are mandated renewable fuel purchases. If you wanted to sequester carbon I could do quite a business by counting all the paper I'm burying in landfill. Or making into charcoal then burying.
 
2012-06-17 04:58:46 PM  
It seems like this could be fairly easily solved with some sort of encryption. But that would go against the congressional goals of oversight, ie fubaring the government bureaucracy and giving handouts to the people donating to their campaigns.
 
2012-06-17 05:13:36 PM  
For three Human Days, Johnny had been on the Scary Side of the Moon, where the Danger Aliens were known to roam. He opened his Space Backpack to do an inventory: One Sleep Blanket. A Flask-Holder of Liquid Drink-Water. Four Holder-Containers of Nutrition Food.

Through his Vision Glasses, Johnny saw a colony of Danger Aliens and feared they might catch the scent of his Nutrition Food.

The Danger Aliens were out on Patrol-Patrol, hunting for Nutrition Food! Johnny thought with his Mind-Brain, 'Must bury the Nutrition Food! I must bury the Nutrition Food!
 
2012-06-17 05:14:16 PM  
They caught him because he was selling them in the same country where he was he was creating them. If he had found an over seas buyer, he could have kept on the gravy train and not faced jail. Europe is having problems that stolen certificates can be used for compliance reasons so there is a large market for them.

I've wondered if this wasn't some crazy plan to tack currency to a carbon standard. It might be better than not having it attached to anything but you don't want your money tied to one of the most common things in the universe. Didn't anyone learn from the leaf currency in the Hitchhikers Guide?
 
2012-06-17 05:17:36 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com

It's two better than X
 
2012-06-17 05:20:58 PM  
The whole "environmental credits" market seems like a scam to me. I can buy the credit for someone else's environmental good deeds and use it to comply with the law, while continuing to generate all the pollution I want. It's as if I could buy the right to claim your charitable donations on my tax return without ever giving a buck to a bum.
 
2012-06-17 05:29:56 PM  
I thought they were called "absolutions?"
 
2012-06-17 05:33:41 PM  

Onkel Buck: I thought they were called "absolutions?"


Indulgences i think.
 
2012-06-17 05:39:51 PM  
Only money... No credits! Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.
sportsassault.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-17 05:57:11 PM  

wildcardjack: Gleeman: Somaticasual: Can't we just skip the pacifying verbage and just admit carbon credits and offsets are useful for two things: reallocating environmental guilt, and the tax gains. Let's not kid ourselves that they're actually helping the environment for the most part.

[media.tumblr.com image 340x480]

Actually, these aren't carbon credits. These are mandated renewable fuel purchases. If you wanted to sequester carbon I could do quite a business by counting all the paper I'm burying in landfill. Or making into charcoal then burying.


I stand a mixture of corrected and disgusted. Mandating the renewable fuel purchases is actually more idiotic, since it leaves so little incentive for a company to maintain compliance themselves in contrast to paying less for buying them from a company who already ate the initial compliance costs basically. Now it's just reallocating R&D expenses *and* the guilt..
 
2012-06-17 06:08:03 PM  
lounge.moviecodec.com

Sorry, but Dale thought of it first.
 
2012-06-17 06:28:56 PM  
I got .028 credits for the burrito I just ate.
 
2012-06-17 06:38:48 PM  

Treize26: Onkel Buck: I thought they were called "absolutions?"

Indulgences i think.


Yah those too! I knew what I meant
 
2012-06-17 06:59:46 PM  
Entire thread full of 'doesn't fix everything, it's worthless'? Check.
Zero comprehension that if it results in X drop in pollution, that's still a gain even if most companies pursue short term profits? Check.
Ironic dichotomy of how many would be screaming bloody murder about government stifling the poor, poor persecuted businesses if they accomplished the same thing by adding stringent new requirements instead? Check.
 
2012-06-17 08:37:45 PM  
I read the headline in this guys voice:

media1.break.com

/Lefty the Letter Salesman
 
2012-06-17 09:30:21 PM  
Those energy credits are as authentic as the need for a carbon tax,
 
2012-06-17 10:47:23 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: The whole "environmental credits" market seems like a scam to me. I can buy the credit for someone else's environmental good deeds and use it to comply with the law, while continuing to generate all the pollution I want. It's as if I could buy the right to claim your charitable donations on my tax return without ever giving a buck to a bum.


The whole "carbon credit" thing is one of the top hundred government scams. Well, maybe. There are a fark of a lot of government scams.
 
2012-06-18 04:38:38 AM  
It would seem the "No, the government is your friend and everything they say is a good idea" crowd is massively outnumbered by the "Look, Government is made of people and people lie and work for their own purposes" crowd...

I would say stop putting shiat into the environment and stop with the passing around of money as a front to not doing the first bit. It will only end badly.
 
2012-06-18 11:14:44 AM  

dready zim: It would seem the "No, the government is your friend and everything they say is a good idea" crowd is massively outnumbered by the "Look, Government is made of people and people lie and work for their own purposes" crowd...

I would say stop putting shiat into the environment and stop with the passing around of money as a front to not doing the first bit. It will only end badly.



I agree with you (although the situation described in TFA really doesn't say anything about the role of government), but the problem is how to get people to actually do the first part. Keep in mind it appears the framework talked about in TFA, although flawed, provides an economic and market-based incentive to actually do this.
 
2012-06-19 05:17:25 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: dready zim: It would seem the "No, the government is your friend and everything they say is a good idea" crowd is massively outnumbered by the "Look, Government is made of people and people lie and work for their own purposes" crowd...

I would say stop putting shiat into the environment and stop with the passing around of money as a front to not doing the first bit. It will only end badly.


I agree with you (although the situation described in TFA really doesn't say anything about the role of government), but the problem is how to get people to actually do the first part. Keep in mind it appears the framework talked about in TFA, although flawed, provides an economic and market-based incentive to actually do this.


You're not putting shiat out into the environment that was not already there. Where do you think it came from? You are only moving the shiat from one place to another.
 
2012-06-19 07:04:44 PM  

RedVentrue: Damnhippyfreak: dready zim: It would seem the "No, the government is your friend and everything they say is a good idea" crowd is massively outnumbered by the "Look, Government is made of people and people lie and work for their own purposes" crowd...

I would say stop putting shiat into the environment and stop with the passing around of money as a front to not doing the first bit. It will only end badly.


I agree with you (although the situation described in TFA really doesn't say anything about the role of government), but the problem is how to get people to actually do the first part. Keep in mind it appears the framework talked about in TFA, although flawed, provides an economic and market-based incentive to actually do this.

You're not putting shiat out into the environment that was not already there. Where do you think it came from? You are only moving the shiat from one place to another.



I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about given the context, but keep in mind that the fact that certain compounds are already out there does not mean there aren't negative consequences for putting out more, or putting them out in places where you really don't want them. Selenium already exists out there, but that does not mean you want it "only" moved from a coal plant into your drinking water, for instance.
 
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