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(Telegraph)   US takes steps to interdict a Russian ship carrying missiles and arms to a client state. No, this isn't a repeat from October 1962...yet   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, attack helicopters, Russians, arms embargo, registered owner, Syrians, Business oligarch, strategic partner, Kaliningrad  
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11976 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 10:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-17 10:35:18 AM
How did the Polish get involved in this?
 
2012-06-17 10:37:40 AM
Client State? why doesn't subby just say Syria.
 
2012-06-17 10:39:09 AM
Wanted for questioning:

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-17 10:39:58 AM
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
 
2012-06-17 10:41:16 AM

Trashy: Client State? why doesn't subby just say Syria.


Because he thinks we're the bad guys and he's a douchebag.
 
2012-06-17 10:44:30 AM
We should have let the shipment go through. There are enough RPG and other hand held missile launchers in Syria to bring down every copter that takes off. Afghanistan II: Russian Belugaloo.

/and I'm not saying we should supply Syrian Al Qaed...er, I mean freedom-loving rebels with anti-aircraft shoulder fired weapons.
 
2012-06-17 10:46:31 AM

Trashy: Client State? why doesn't subby just say Syria.


Because it's an attempt to link the shipment of arms to Syria and the Cuban Missile Crisis.
 
2012-06-17 10:48:20 AM
Goddamn Russians. Only Americans are allowed to supply arms to foreign powers.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-06-17 10:49:08 AM
Withdrawal of a ship's insurance cover would make it difficult for it legally to dock elsewhere and could force it to return the cargo to port.

I bet Syria and Russia will allow it to dock. Russia can compensate for any missed stops. At least by not having the owners killed for disobedience.
 
2012-06-17 10:49:24 AM
pulling the insurance is an interesting tactic.

"The evidence I was presented with indicates that according to the documentation the company was not transporting arms for either side of the Syrian conflict," Dr Lisin said in emailed comments.

and that may very well be true, however whether or not the documents were accurate is the question.

as many problems as we have i don't fear being attacked from the sky when i go grocery shopping.
 
2012-06-17 10:49:26 AM
Russia seems to have adopted the Fark Troll™ tactic of violently opposing the majority no matter what the subject

/this cannot end well
 
2012-06-17 10:50:44 AM
sid2112


ga362: Prediction: This post will be canned within 5 minutes. It's now 9:44 cst.

No thread about Drew on Stossel . . .

He was AWESOME on Stossel!


My thoughts exactly.

/post still here!
 
2012-06-17 10:51:59 AM

Trashy: Client State? why doesn't subby just say Syria.


Because then the repeat meme wouldn't work.
 
2012-06-17 10:55:51 AM

Curious: pulling the insurance is an interesting tactic.

"The evidence I was presented with indicates that according to the documentation the company was not transporting arms for either side of the Syrian conflict," Dr Lisin said in emailed comments.

and that may very well be true, however whether or not the documents were accurate is the question.

as many problems as we have i don't fear being attacked from the sky when i go grocery shopping.


The article talks about two different ships. The one Dr. Lisin is referring to is one that belongs to his company and docked in Syria last month. The one the US is asking Britain to pull the insurance policy on is en route now.
 
2012-06-17 10:57:28 AM
ga362


sid2112


ga362: Prediction: This post will be canned within 5 minutes. It's now 9:44 cst.

No thread about Drew on Stossel . . .

He was AWESOME on Stossel!

My thoughts exactly.

/post still here!


Yes he was! Now let's just we just send a ship full of lawyers to Syria to settle the problems.
 
2012-06-17 10:57:49 AM
TFA: "was a general cargo of non-military purpose featuring electrical equipment and repair parts (rotor blades) in containers and wooden crates", he said.

Russian humour at work. After all, a complete attack helicopter is nothing more than an assembled collection of electrical equipment and repair parts...

Years ago, the company I worked for was employed by a Soviet shipping company. "electrical equipment" and "repair parts" (or "spare parts") was the standard description on the manifest for cargo that was not to be questioned or inspected until it got to destination.

As an aside, and not to threadjack, the history of Kaliningrad is one of the saddest and most violent of WWII and the immediate postwar period.
 
2012-06-17 10:58:59 AM
So, Cold War 2: Electric Boogaloo?.
 
2012-06-17 11:00:06 AM
Meh. Russia and Syria have been allies for years. Isn't Syria home to Russia's only naval base on the Mediterranean?
 
2012-06-17 11:05:30 AM
While the Kremlin, which has so far vetoed calls for a United Nations arms embargo against Syria, insists that Mil is merely honouring the terms of an existing business contract, critics point that such helicopters have helped spearhead President Bashar al-Assad's attempts to suppress the uprising against him. Last week it was reported that helicopters had repeatedly fired rockets at a hospital in a rebel enclave outside Aleppo in northern Syria.

Well, that's good to know.
 
2012-06-17 11:06:07 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Trashy: Client State? why doesn't subby just say Syria.

Because he thinks we're the bad guys and he's a douchebag.


Or maybe subby has read a history book, re Cold War, and neither you nor Trashy have...

Hint: if he had said Syria, he could not have made the October 1962 reference.
 
2012-06-17 11:19:22 AM
ronabbass.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-17 11:22:31 AM
The U.S. Government should mind its own damn business on this one.
 
TWX
2012-06-17 11:23:24 AM

Notabunny: Meh. Russia and Syria have been allies for years. Isn't Syria home to Russia's only naval base on the Mediterranean?


Correct. That's probably a large part of why Russia is more active in their support for Syria, as opposed to just blustering but not actually doing much with regard to other countries.

Sometimes though, I think Russia takes the contrarian approach out of spite that they weren't able to become the dominant power in the world and because they want to remind everyone that they're there. Never mind that their subs are rusting and sometimes self-destructing on deployment, or that their conscription army is so bad that the Generals don't even want them.

They're going from being the biggest threat to the free world to being the biggest thorn in the side of western progress. Still preferable to the former, but now we're tied down in bureaucratic red tape in the UN.
 
2012-06-17 11:24:39 AM

catonacid: Goddamn Russians. Only Americans are allowed to supply arms to foreign powers.


..and Germans
 
2012-06-17 11:24:57 AM
Maybe the Reset button need to be hit again.
 
2012-06-17 11:30:23 AM

ZAZ: Withdrawal of a ship's insurance cover would make it difficult for it legally to dock elsewhere and could force it to return the cargo to port.

I bet Syria and Russia will allow it to dock. Russia can compensate for any missed stops. At least by not having the owners killed for disobedience.


The sailing distance is more than seven thousand kilometers. Does anyone know the unrefueled range of the vessel?

Haha, google ftw, looks like a cruising range of 10,000 nm. Of course, who knows what that means. Also, does the ship has a full compliment of fuel.

specs if you want them(warning PDF)
http://www.femco.ru/uploads/files/Alaed_spec_eng.pdf
 
2012-06-17 11:31:31 AM
I see a pattern here:

1) Elect Romney president
2) Start war
3) Profit
 
2012-06-17 11:35:10 AM
Reminds me of how old and (at one time, hopefully) stupid I was. I enlisted in the US Army two weeks after the Cubin Missle issue and was blissfully unaware tht the event even happeded.
 
2012-06-17 11:36:02 AM
We just can't have the Ruskies selling arms to Syria damn it.
It's one of the few products we still manufacture for export and we need the economic boost.
 
2012-06-17 11:37:14 AM

Boudica's War Tampon: We should have let the shipment go through. There are enough RPG and other hand held missile launchers in Syria to bring down every copter that takes off. Afghanistan II: Russian Belugaloo.

/and I'm not saying we should supply Syrian Al Qaed...er, I mean freedom-loving rebels with anti-aircraft shoulder fired weapons.


those are not the US/West version of helicopters.

They are armored, serious farking gun platforms made to engage ground targets.
 
2012-06-17 11:38:04 AM

Darkviking: I see a pattern here:

1) Elect Romney president
2) Start war
3) Profit


huh? Looks to me like Obama is the one sword rattling here. Oh I see it now, Romney asked Obama to do it because its all one big conspiracy, Obviously an extra terrestrial influence here...

i.qkme.me
 
2012-06-17 11:40:57 AM
Of course Russia is supplying attack helicopters to al-Assad. They really caught on to capitalism.
 
2012-06-17 11:41:06 AM

4 lives down 5 to go: Boudica's War Tampon: We should have let the shipment go through. There are enough RPG and other hand held missile launchers in Syria to bring down every copter that takes off. Afghanistan II: Russian Belugaloo.

/and I'm not saying we should supply Syrian Al Qaed...er, I mean freedom-loving rebels with anti-aircraft shoulder fired weapons.

those are not the US/West version of helicopters.

They are armored, serious farking gun platforms made to engage ground targets.


In short, much like the article said, they're flying tanks. I would not fark with a russian attack chopper without a much faster air superiority jet in play.
 
2012-06-17 11:41:39 AM
onfinite.com
 
2012-06-17 11:42:30 AM

LargeCanine: Maybe the Reset button need to be hit again.


We've already passed that point. Pull the power cable, remove the motherboard battery, short the BIOS capacitor, DBAN the hard drive.

Maybe it'll work again. Or maybe the CPU is just farked and needs replacing. Better yet, swap the entire motherboard, CPU, and RAM and start fresh.
 
2012-06-17 11:45:41 AM

SurelyShirley: catonacid: Goddamn Russians. Only Americans are allowed to supply arms to foreign powers.

..and Germans


...and France(Pakistan), Britain(Libya), Spain(Venezuela), etc, etc, etc.
 
2012-06-17 11:49:34 AM
Or what? Give AIPAC a refund?
 
2012-06-17 12:12:36 PM
US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?
 
2012-06-17 12:23:08 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Russia seems to have adopted the Fark Troll™ tactic of violently opposing the majority no matter what the subject

/this cannot end well


I think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.
 
2012-06-17 12:25:57 PM

ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?


The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"
 
2012-06-17 12:28:36 PM

cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?

The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"


I am so humbled. Thank you for correcting me. I owe you my life.
Arsehole
 
2012-06-17 12:28:45 PM

rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Russia seems to have adopted the Fark Troll™ tactic of violently opposing the majority no matter what the subject

/this cannot end well

I think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.


We wouldn't have been able to sustain a multi-continent empire and the large expansion of territory would have been too much for the US military to hold down against local rebellion. Also, China, seeing an opportunity, would have attacked both Russia and Japan in a bid to retake lost lands from the earlier wars in the 20th century.

In short, we would have guaranteed another 5+ years of WWII and probably the end of civilization as we unknowingly nuked the planet to hell.
 
2012-06-17 12:29:42 PM

ontariolightning: cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?

The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"

I am so humbled. Thank you for correcting me. I owe you my life.
Arsehole


Hey, if you're going to be incorrectly snarky, you probably shouldn't be calling other people arseholes.
 
2012-06-17 12:33:45 PM

nekulor: rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Russia seems to have adopted the Fark Troll™ tactic of violently opposing the majority no matter what the subject

/this cannot end well

I think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.

We wouldn't have been able to sustain a multi-continent empire and the large expansion of territory would have been too much for the US military to hold down against local rebellion. Also, China, seeing an opportunity, would have attacked both Russia and Japan in a bid to retake lost lands from the earlier wars in the 20th century.

In short, we would have guaranteed another 5+ years of WWII and probably the end of civilization as we unknowingly nuked the planet to hell.


This and more. I don't see the civilian army wanting to continue. I don't see the US succeeding where the Germans failed - when the US wasn't willing to go to the lengths of barbarity that the Germans went to in their failure. The American people just wouldn't have the stomach for it. I'm not being critical, I'm just trying to be honest.
 
2012-06-17 12:44:15 PM

rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Russia seems to have adopted the Fark Troll™ tactic of violently opposing the majority no matter what the subject

/this cannot end well

I think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.


The Russians were first in Berlin. The fresh civilians you sent over to Normandy in 1944 would of had a real easy time rolling millions of battle-hardened Russians who have been at war with Germany since 1941.
 
2012-06-17 12:53:28 PM

nekulor: rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk:... think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.

We wouldn't have been able to sustain a multi-continent empire and the large expansion of territory would have been too much for the US military to hold down against local rebellion. Also, China, seeing an opportunity, would have attacked both Russia and Japan in a bid to retake lost lands from the earlier wars in the 20th century....


The Chinese? then? not damn likely. They were worse than worthless as Allies in WW2
 
2012-06-17 01:06:47 PM
Easier to destroy these helicopters when they're in Syria's possession than Russia's. I'd be tempted to let them unload them while keeping a close eye from well overhead, and then blow them up on the ground with Tomahawks once any Russian personnel were clear.

It's never quite that simple, but it would be a good Fark You to the purchasers, and Russia would still get its money.
 
2012-06-17 01:07:37 PM

catonacid: The Russians were first in Berlin. The fresh civilians you sent over to Normandy in 1944 would of had a real easy time rolling millions of battle-hardened Russians who have been at war with Germany since 1941.


I agree with you but the Russians were also pretty exhausted from that struggle and would have started running out of soldiers pretty quickly against the US. Plenty of countries in Eastern Europe would have rose up against the Russian's new empire and they were overstretched at the end. The US could have cranked out butt loads of tanks, planes, and soldiers to throw at the Russians from the Pacific as well as Atlantic.

And let's not forget the Russians didn't do any winning in 41 or 42, they lost entire armies to encirclement and destruction.

/Stalingrad soon changed that
 
2012-06-17 01:32:02 PM
Better dead than red ?
 
2012-06-17 01:33:57 PM
You can track the ship here. Enter the ship name (Alaed) in the search bar.

http://marinetraffic.com/ais/
 
2012-06-17 01:58:32 PM

RandomAxe: Easier to destroy these helicopters when they're in Syria's possession than Russia's. I'd be tempted to let them unload them while keeping a close eye from well overhead, and then blow them up on the ground with Tomahawks once any Russian personnel were clear.

It's never quite that simple, but it would be a good Fark You to the purchasers, and Russia would still get its money.



Sounds good to me.
 
2012-06-17 02:29:52 PM

vartian: While the Kremlin, which has so far vetoed calls for a United Nations arms embargo against Syria, insists that Mil is merely honouring the terms of an existing business contract, critics point that such helicopters have helped spearhead President Bashar al-Assad's attempts to suppress the uprising against him. Last week it was reported that helicopters had repeatedly fired rockets at a hospital in a rebel enclave outside Aleppo in northern Syria.

Well, that's good to know.


The Russians are supporting Syria and other nations because arms sales are a HUGE part (10% or more) of their GDP. Remember all those factories making weapons for the Red Army when the Soviet Union went bust? Well, now they just export them. Losing Libya was a huge blow to their weapons income - losing Syria too would really hurt.
 
2012-06-17 03:19:31 PM

cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?

The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"

I am so humbled. Thank you for correcting me. I owe you my life.
Arsehole

Hey, if you're going to be incorrectly snarky, you probably shouldn't be calling other people arseholes.


wasnt snarky, was pointing out history
 
2012-06-17 03:28:32 PM
Silly Ruskies. Don't they know that killing civies with drones is the approved way to do it these days?
 
2012-06-17 04:15:36 PM

Mock26: The U.S. Government should mind its own damn business on this one.


so you are OK with russia arming one side of a civil war?
LOLOL
 
2012-06-17 04:58:31 PM
This kind of ham-handed diplomacy could end very badly.
 
2012-06-17 05:25:35 PM
There are a lot of reasons for Russia to support Syria. Dictators bromance, Russia's port, arms sales...

I think people are missing the biggest one of all though. Russia is a dictatorship and dictatorships are being overthrown left and right. It's in Putin's best interest (notice I didn't say Russia's best interest) to stop this trend before is spreads north. Even oil wealth doesn't guarantee a dictator's survival these days.
 
2012-06-17 08:12:39 PM

ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?


The US is a different country under each administration. So far as I know the Obama incarnation of the US has not sold weapons to bad people. I do know that the Reagan version did.
 
2012-06-17 08:49:29 PM

ontariolightning: cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?

The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"

I am so humbled. Thank you for correcting me. I owe you my life.
Arsehole

Hey, if you're going to be incorrectly snarky, you probably shouldn't be calling other people arseholes.

wasnt snarky, was pointing out history demonstating the quality of my vocabulary

 
2012-06-17 11:06:59 PM

namatad: Mock26: The U.S. Government should mind its own damn business on this one.

so you are OK with russia arming one side of a civil war?
LOLOL


Yes I am. No reason why the different sides of a civil war cannot seek outside aid.
 
gad
2012-06-17 11:27:50 PM

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: nekulor: rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk:... think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.

We wouldn't have been able to sustain a multi-continent empire and the large expansion of territory would have been too much for the US military to hold down against local rebellion. Also, China, seeing an opportunity, would have attacked both Russia and Japan in a bid to retake lost lands from the earlier wars in the 20th century....

The Chinese? then? not damn likely. They were worse than worthless as Allies in WW2


Armchair Generals, like listening to geeks arguing about "who would win in a fight between Superman and Batman" only with even more silly made up facts pulled out of thin air. I also found the comment about China attacking anyone in the 40's as being hilarious since that whole third world country was in a civil war.
 
2012-06-18 12:18:03 AM
It's terrible things that can happen to merchant ships.

They can get hijacked by pirates. Than can hit old unexploded mines from WWII.

Sometimes they just disappear mysteriously and no one ever finds out why. It's crazy.
 
2012-06-18 07:14:17 AM

ontariolightning: cameroncrazy1984: ontariolightning: US has sold deadly weapons to all kinds of dictators and NOW they grow a conscious?

The US doesn't have a conscious.

It has a "conscience"

I am so humbled. Thank you for correcting me. I owe you my life.
Arsehole


I know, right!? What an asshole for pointing out your "word" doesn't exist!
 
2012-06-18 09:20:32 AM

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: nekulor: rummonkey: MaudlinMutantMollusk:... think Patton was right. We should have kept rolling to Moscow after the nazis surrendered. Farking russians.

We wouldn't have been able to sustain a multi-continent empire and the large expansion of territory would have been too much for the US military to hold down against local rebellion. Also, China, seeing an opportunity, would have attacked both Russia and Japan in a bid to retake lost lands from the earlier wars in the 20th century....

The Chinese? then? not damn likely. They were worse than worthless as Allies in WW2


The Chinese were too busy fighting themselves. Kai-Shek might have been willing to do it but Mao's Red troops ran away from anything that fired at them. Had the Nationalist forces pushed north through Manchuria into Siberia Mao's guys would have just taken and fortified the cities they left behind and they would come home to a communist country

/Which is pretty much what happened anyway
 
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