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(New Zealand Herald)   Don't you hate it when the doctors say you have fatal cancer, so you spend $80,000 completing everything on your bucket list, and then it turns out the doctors got it wrong?   (nzherald.co.nz) divider line 124
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10119 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2012 at 9:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-17 10:41:18 AM

Forbidden Doughnut: flucto: Finding out you don't really have cancer is never bad.



/ would agree.


Terms of En-rampage
 
2012-06-17 10:41:37 AM

wmoonfox: My point is, they ran up a whole bunch of unnecessary bills expecting a big payout. If they were hospital bills, these fine folks might deserve some sympathy and possibly some compensation, As it is, they went on vacation, gambling and losing. It's all there in the article.... you did read the article, right?




wmoonfox: expecting to game the insurance companies to pay for your excesses


You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...
 
2012-06-17 10:42:19 AM

flucto: Finding out you don't really have cancer is never bad.


Did you see the picture of these two?
 
2012-06-17 10:50:28 AM

rvabenji: You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...


When they are bills that you otherwise would not have run up, yes, that's pretty much the operative definition of "gaming the system". Insurance companies work by routinely paying out less than their face value; otherwise, everyone with a $100K policy would actually have to contribute $100K, plus administrative costs, defeating the purpose. These people decided to treat themselves to a lifestyle they could never legitimately afford by relying on a payout that they would not normally qualify for. Ergo, they gamed the insurance company... and they lost. Cry me a farking river.
 
2012-06-17 10:52:42 AM

"Frank, 69, and Wilma, 65, who don't want their surname published, say they had "nothing to lose" after Frank was told in May 2010 that he had only a few months to live."


Uncensored picture included in article.


media.nzherald.co.nz

 
2012-06-17 10:55:52 AM

flucto: Finding out you don't really have cancer is never bad.


Exactly. And if they're really that busted up about it, just go on one more trip.
"Beautiful view from the balcony this morning, isn't it?"
"Sure is, honey."
"Hold my coffee."
"sigh... ok"
"Welp. Whoops, eh? Bye baby."
"Bye honey. Been fun."
 
2012-06-17 10:56:55 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: Newsflash: just bc you think you are dying...doesn't mean you are special somehow. What they did was VERY immature and stupid...then they were going to try and defraud the insurance company into paying for it.

Tough luck he didn't die and all..but it looks like they are on the hook because of his over-inflated sense of entitlement and stupidity


farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2012-06-17 10:57:28 AM

sinanju: Was it a brain cloud?

[matchcuts.files.wordpress.com image 640x359]


There are a million versions of this story. I'm glad you posted this one.
 
2012-06-17 10:59:07 AM

wmoonfox: rvabenji: You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...

When they are bills that you otherwise would not have run up, yes, that's pretty much the operative definition of "gaming the system". Insurance companies work by routinely paying out less than their face value; otherwise, everyone with a $100K policy would actually have to contribute $100K, plus administrative costs, defeating the purpose. These people decided to treat themselves to a lifestyle they could never legitimately afford by relying on a payout that they would not normally qualify for. Ergo, they gamed the insurance company... and they lost. Cry me a farking river.


What? No. If you have a $100 000 policy, it pays $100 000, regardless of what your bills are.
 
2012-06-17 11:02:57 AM

zamboni: FTFA:"If the pain got too bad I was going to kill myself, but the pain never came ... everyone was surprised I was still alive," Frank said.

Might wanna check the terms of that life insurance policy you were depending on to pay for your recent extravagances, Sparky. It probably doesn't cover suicide.

These guys sound like they don't plan ahead very much. It's a wonder they even have a life insurance policy to begin with.


Actually, suicide exclusions often only apply in the first year or 2 after you buy the policy. If he had the policy longer than that, it might have paid out even in the event of suicide.
 
2012-06-17 11:03:25 AM
Ok, so they used credit knowing he would die. So he either intended to leave his wife 80k in debt when he died or he intended to defraud his lenders, knowing he would never pay back any of the money he spent.
Oh, and he can't be happy the doctor was wrong when he predicted his death?
 
2012-06-17 11:04:45 AM

ArgusRun: So you borrowed 80k without any intention of paying it back. And somehow because you thought you were dying, we're supposed to sympathize?

Sorry. That makes you a douchebag.


Know how I know you didn't RTFA?

Well, I *did* read the article. How bad can it be? He got to do some awesome shiat, and he's still alive. Sounds like a bonus to me.
 
2012-06-17 11:06:41 AM
www.hwdyk.com

"That's easy for you to say. I owe 100 grand to a fat-ass loan shark which I spent on a stripper named Molly Mounds."
 
2012-06-17 11:07:25 AM

wmoonfox: rvabenji: You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...

When they are bills that you otherwise would not have run up, yes, that's pretty much the operative definition of "gaming the system". Insurance companies work by routinely paying out less than their face value; otherwise, everyone with a $100K policy would actually have to contribute $100K, plus administrative costs, defeating the purpose. These people decided to treat themselves to a lifestyle they could never legitimately afford by relying on a payout that they would not normally qualify for. Ergo, they gamed the insurance company... and they lost. Cry me a farking river.


I always assumed that when you have a $100,000 life insurance policy that they pay you $100,000 if you die in a way that is covered under that policy. That isn't the case? It seems that you should be able to do anything you want with the money once it's paid out.

Just from reading up a bit on it it seems like most term policies are lump sum payouts, with the insurance company betting that you won't die during the term and therefore they make money by accepting premiums but never paying out. If he bought a term policy that covered him until a certain age, and he thought he was going to die of cancer before that age, he was simply going to be able to take advantage of the policy he bought, this isn't gaming.

Whole life policies apparently have premiums that increase over time as you get closer and closer to the end of your expected lifespan, with the total of payouts being about equal to the total of premiums paid over the life of the policy. Again the insurance companies can make money by receiving payments for decades before they pay out and being able to invest that money to earn interest.
 
2012-06-17 11:14:59 AM
Well...if he completed his bucket list already, what does he have to live for?

static.ddmcdn.com
 
2012-06-17 11:17:15 AM

Valorumguygee: Actually I'm pretty sure that would be farking rad...

Sure the guy is down money, but a lifetime of experiences AND you get to complete your life? I'm pretty sure which outcome I would choose...


the one which doesn't leave my significant other to pick up the pieces after I'm gone.
 
2012-06-17 11:18:23 AM

Katie98_KT: You know what this article reminds me of? Married men and women who retire together, and then the man is getting closer to death (men die younger) so they go out and spend all their money, and I mean, all of it, on vacations, etc, and then the man dies and the woman has nothing to live on.

very common occurance.

I understand this couple thought he was dying, but their plan was for her to get the life insurance and do what? she had no house, no savings, lots of bills.


Men are assholes and women encourage them to be.
 
2012-06-17 11:18:54 AM

Katie98_KT: You know what this article reminds me of? Married men and women who retire together, and then the man is getting closer to death (men die younger) so they go out and spend all their money, and I mean, all of it, on vacations, etc, and then the man dies and the woman has nothing to live on.


That's the plan!

Oh, and if this guy is so upset to be alive, why doesn't he just step in front of a bus? Problem solved!
 
2012-06-17 11:18:55 AM

Hector Remarkable: I've seen this movie.


So have I.
 
2012-06-17 11:22:13 AM

mab1823: Beats the hell out of sitting at home and waiting to die.


Isn't that why we have Fark?
 
2012-06-17 11:22:13 AM
That whole bucket list is BS. Do all the shiat you want to do while you can all thru out your lifetime. That's what a lifetime is for.. experiencing this planet however you want.

CSS: Grandparents, immigrants from Germany, worked hard all their lives and had a great family. Worked to retirement, never lived beyond their means, and saved like squirrels. Saved for a big trip to Germany to see The Wall come down. They were from East Germany, and managed to get the hell out in '48. My Grandmother was diagnosed with cancer a month before the trip. She said they wished they would have done more fun things together. Died 4 months later. Live now for Pete's Sake.

Then a whore of a woman married my Grandfather and blew all the money going on trips and mostly without him. ..but that's another CSS.

Carp Denim!
 
2012-06-17 11:23:23 AM

santadog: That whole bucket list is BS. Do all the shiat you want to do while you can all thru out your lifetime. That's what a lifetime is for.. experiencing this planet however you want.

CSS: Grandparents, immigrants from Germany, worked hard all their lives and had a great family. Worked to retirement, never lived beyond their means, and saved like squirrels. Saved for a big trip to Germany to see The Wall come down. They were from East Germany, and managed to get the hell out in '48. My Grandmother was diagnosed with cancer a month before the trip. She said they wished they would have done more fun things together. Died 4 months later. Live now for Pete's Sake.

Then a whore of a woman married my Grandfather and blew all the money going on trips and mostly without him. ..but that's another CSS.

Carp Denim!


Is Pete dying, too?
 
2012-06-17 11:25:52 AM

zamboni: It probably doesn't cover suicide.


I don't know about New Zealand, but in the US after the first two years of a term life insurance policy, suicide is covered.
 
2012-06-17 11:26:27 AM
Guy "accidentally" jumps in front of a bus.

Problem Solved!
 
2012-06-17 11:31:28 AM

TuteTibiImperes: wmoonfox: rvabenji: You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...

When they are bills that you otherwise would not have run up, yes, that's pretty much the operative definition of "gaming the system". Insurance companies work by routinely paying out less than their face value; otherwise, everyone with a $100K policy would actually have to contribute $100K, plus administrative costs, defeating the purpose. These people decided to treat themselves to a lifestyle they could never legitimately afford by relying on a payout that they would not normally qualify for. Ergo, they gamed the insurance company... and they lost. Cry me a farking river.

I always assumed that when you have a $100,000 life insurance policy that they pay you $100,000 if you die in a way that is covered under that policy. That isn't the case? It seems that you should be able to do anything you want with the money once it's paid out.

Just from reading up a bit on it it seems like most term policies are lump sum payouts, with the insurance company betting that you won't die during the term and therefore they make money by accepting premiums but never paying out. If he bought a term policy that covered him until a certain age, and he thought he was going to die of cancer before that age, he was simply going to be able to take advantage of the policy he bought, this isn't gaming.

Whole life policies apparently have premiums that increase over time as you get closer and closer to the end of your expected lifespan, with the total of payouts being about equal to the total of premiums paid over the life of the policy. Again the insurance companies can make money by receiving payments for decades before they pay out and being able to invest that money to earn interest.


1) Whole Life covers the insured for their whole life, until they die, if the policy is paid up. Usually a scheduled series of equal payments made in younger wage earning years is made by insured, payments cease when fulfilled and the the insured "owns" the policy contract. Payments do not(but they can) increase with age if scheduled that way.
2) Term Life covers the insured for a defined term of time. Typically, payments get large with age. Think rental.
3) "Most" policies will pay out(usually 50%) prior to death with a fatal diagnosis. But the insurance investigation prior to payment would probably have turned up the misdiagnosis.
4) This all could have been avoided
 
2012-06-17 11:38:50 AM

rvabenji: wmoonfox: TFA: Wilma said they've lost faith in the health system and refused to get medical care.

Yes, it's the hospital's fault that you spent way more than you had, expecting to game the insurance companies to pay for your excesses. "Personal responsibility" is completely foreign to the world today...

You're an idiot. His point was he has life insurance which pays a lump sum when he dies. The insurance company expects you to use that for bills.


You're a towel.
 
2012-06-17 11:42:47 AM

Devolving_Spud: ArgusRun: So you borrowed 80k without any intention of paying it back. And somehow because you thought you were dying, we're supposed to sympathize?

Sorry. That makes you a douchebag.

This. I felt a little sorry for them until I got to that part.


Did either of you RTFA? Or was "...expecting his life insurance to cover the costs" a fact that doesn't matter or is otherwise inconvenient to you?
 
2012-06-17 12:01:24 PM

MoronLessOff: Well...if he completed his bucket list already, what does he have to live for?

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x231]


And they don't have any money left, so what does she have to live for either?

Good thing there are two rounds...
 
2012-06-17 12:06:29 PM
marius2
"I'm going to die, let's spend all of OUR money. It's not like you'll need once I'm dead or anything."

Good plan.

I thought the same thing. My husband would spend his remaining time making sure that me and the kids would be as comfortable as possible. Which is nice because I would be a complete zombie if I lost him. And vise versa. Even if we didn't have kids we would use whatever money there was for our family. These people had kids and grandchildren, did they not need anything? So selfish.
 
2012-06-17 12:12:23 PM
Great Becker episode, you can watch the full episode on youtube.

part 1

Link


part 2 . Watch the first few minutes if you want the punchline

Link
 
2012-06-17 12:13:21 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: Newsflash: just bc you think you are dying...doesn't mean you are special somehow. What they did was VERY immature and stupid...then they were going to try and defraud the insurance company into paying for it.

Tough luck he didn't die and all..but it looks like they are on the hook because of his over-inflated sense of entitlement and stupidity


Is the concept of Creditors' rights and life insurance proceeds that difficult?

Or is reading that difficult?
 
2012-06-17 12:13:29 PM

robbrie: Guy "accidentally" jumps in front of a bus.

Problem Solved!


People who take the cowardly way out and make someone else do their dirty work are the lowest of the low. There are many ways to off yourself without making some bus driver or train engineer do it for you. I remember being an hour late for Thanksgiving dinner because some idiot made the train engineer do his dirty work. What a creepy last act for your life.
 
2012-06-17 12:16:27 PM
No. So what, I spent 80,000 having the time of my life.

Sounds like I need a new bucket list.
 
2012-06-17 12:18:25 PM
Looking at their sour faces on the picture makes me want to puke. The fact that people need a bucket list and a deadline to start enjoying life in itself is pitiful. Yet, they did it, they got a last chance to learn to appreciate life and yet they didn't learn anything, they just squandered money they didn't have. They should be happy about getting a few more years, they should have learned to appreciate enjoy life, but instead they will be sad and frustrated for the rest of their miserable little lives. They fail at life and I hope they off themselves in misery.
 
2012-06-17 12:18:38 PM

wmoonfox: rvabenji: You apparently think collecting on life insurance by dieing and then using that money to pay bills is "gaming"...

When they are bills that you otherwise would not have run up, yes, that's pretty much the operative definition of "gaming the system". Insurance companies work by routinely paying out less than their face value; otherwise, everyone with a $100K policy would actually have to contribute $100K, plus administrative costs, defeating the purpose. These people decided to treat themselves to a lifestyle they could never legitimately afford by relying on a payout that they would not normally qualify for. Ergo, they gamed the insurance company... and they lost. Cry me a farking river.


I'm still confused how this is gaming the system. Life insurance policies (in the US at least) are typically fixed amounts (sometimes subject to the age/cause of death). How does running up bills before dying constitute "gaming" the system? Do NZ life insurance proceeds depend on the amount of debt of the deceased?
 
2012-06-17 12:18:56 PM

ArgusRun: So you borrowed 80k without any intention of paying it back. And somehow because you thought you were dying, we're supposed to sympathize?

Sorry. That makes you a douchebag.


No they planned on getting his life insurance payout to pay it off once he croaked.
 
2012-06-17 12:23:02 PM
While I do think it is a waste of money for single people (or even most dual income couples with no kids) to have any life insurance, it appears that basic education as to the realities of life insurance is lacking.

And why would anyone ever get anything other than term life insurance? Is whole-life insurance just a hedge in case you remarry someone younger?
 
2012-06-17 12:26:40 PM

mab1823: I'd probably ask for a second opinion, but I hardly blame these people for doing what they did...especially if they thought his life insurance would pay for it once he was gone. Beats the hell out of sitting at home and waiting to die.


If you get diagnosed with Cancer get a third opinion. They have a tendency to err on the side of caution due to fear of lawsuits.
 
2012-06-17 12:29:15 PM

Girion47: Ed Finnerty: [thefilmstage.com image 620x349]

Understands.

I saw that last weekend, had a Q&A session with Bobcat after the movie.


How's old Bobscratch Goldfarm doing these days?
 
2012-06-17 12:30:14 PM

sallys: robbrie: Guy "accidentally" jumps in front of a bus.

Problem Solved!

People who take the cowardly way out and make someone else do their dirty work are the lowest of the low. There are many ways to off yourself without making some bus driver or train engineer do it for you. I remember being an hour late for Thanksgiving dinner because some idiot made the train engineer do his dirty work. What a creepy last act for your life.


Oh poor you.
 
2012-06-17 12:30:33 PM
I could think of far worse things happening to a person.
 
2012-06-17 12:31:32 PM
Makes me think of:

The wizards of Unseen University knew the exact time of their death, which meant they always died deep in debt.

Or something like that. If Terry is reading this he can correct me.
 
2012-06-17 12:32:22 PM

The_Homeless_Guy: No they planned on getting his life insurance payout to pay it off once he croaked.


They cancelled their insurance, and he was planning on suicide near the end. Little difficult to get that money.
 
2012-06-17 12:37:31 PM

kingoomieiii: They cancelled their health insurance


FTFY
 
2012-06-17 12:38:18 PM

Ed Finnerty: [thefilmstage.com image 620x349]

Understands.


He was pissed, too

cdn-static.denofgeek.com
 
2012-06-17 12:42:16 PM

WhippingBoy: sallys: robbrie: Guy "accidentally" jumps in front of a bus.

Problem Solved!

People who take the cowardly way out and make someone else do their dirty work are the lowest of the low. There are many ways to off yourself without making some bus driver or train engineer do it for you. I remember being an hour late for Thanksgiving dinner because some idiot made the train engineer do his dirty work. What a creepy last act for your life.

Oh poor you.


Way to miss the point.
 
2012-06-17 12:52:08 PM

sallys: People who take the cowardly way out and make someone else do their dirty work are the lowest of the low. There are many ways to off yourself without making some bus driver or train engineer do it for you. I remember being an hour late for Thanksgiving dinner because some idiot made the train engineer do his dirty work. What a creepy last act for your life.


Better than the people who decide to swerve into oncoming traffic and wind up killing someone else and surviving themselves.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who are in a suicidal mindset. I understand that it is irrational and usually is part of some compounded damage that never got addressed by the people who were supposed to care for that person. But it's hard to feel that way when they start endangering other people.
 
2012-06-17 12:53:21 PM
Selfishness, entitlement and stupidity. I have no sympathy for them. "Waaaahhhh, I'm OLD so I DESERVE to have what I want!!"
 
2012-06-17 12:58:01 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: Newsflash: just bc you think you are dying...doesn't mean you are special somehow. What they did was VERY immature and stupid...then they were going to try and defraud the insurance company into paying for it.

Tough luck he didn't die and all..but it looks like they are on the hook because of his over-inflated sense of entitlement and stupidity


From last thread I saw you in, you said you were a doctor. If that is the case you have had many years of higher learning and should be a reasonably smart person. With that being the case, I will assume that this reply of yours was just a brain fart, because I can't believe a doctor could not have enough sense to realize that this is in no way in hell fraud against the insurance company. Fraud would be if he said he died and faked his death to get the policy proceeds. Once the insurance pays a death benefit, the beneficiary can spend it however he or she likes. The insurance pays because he dies, not because he has bills.

Of course I see you didn't take an opportunity to berate a fellow doctor on a colossal screw up. If you tell someone they only have two months to live, you might want to delay your round of golf a few hours and triple
check the test results, as people will do all kind of of the wall things when faced with their impending death.

They might have been immature and entitled, but the doctor that faked up was unprofessional and relied on his gut instead of the facts. The patients insurance company won't be paying out this time, but the doctor's company likely will be.
 
2012-06-17 01:04:26 PM

ArgusRun: So you borrowed 80k without any intention of paying it back. And somehow because you thought you were dying, we're supposed to sympathize?

Sorry. That makes you a douchebag.


Actually, they said the lady was going to pay it off with life insurance after the guy died.
 
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