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(ZDNet)   Windows 8: a design disaster   (zdnet.com) divider line 207
    More: Interesting, error messages, Windows Explorer, Start Menu, disasters, tool-bars, Windows Phones  
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10943 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jun 2012 at 9:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 11:59:24 PM

Nem Wan: This is why OS X and iOS remain distinct. And yet I get the stink-eye every time someone asks why there isn't a touch-screen MacBook and I try to explain why they shouldn't want that.


Don't discount the possibility that the Metro UI on everything is Microsoft's response to hardware vendors desire to improve their bottomline by providing a reason to sell a touchscreen with every computer.
 
2012-06-17 12:02:53 AM
Maybe there are reasons why this can't work, but why can't MS make it so their new OS can be 'downgraded' when it comes to the user interface? I really haven't seen anything in their newer OSes that works better than it did in Windows 2000. I'd happily buy a new and improved OS that let me set the user interface so it looks and works exactly like Win2k.

So many places use WinXP right now I wonder how they'll be able to switch without seeing a really large productivity drop.
 
2012-06-17 12:04:17 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: UseUrHeadFred
Nevertheless, it begs the question:

This phrase doesn't mean what you think it means*. Please avoid using it.

/* You see what I did there because what I did there; you saw it.


The two uses are distinct, purposeful and never going to be confused. This is like people freaking out about wood-cutting tools and the past tense of "to see." Relax
 
2012-06-17 12:04:45 AM

simplicimus: Corporations are going to love the UI and all the extra personnel training that goes with it, as will any help support people.


They aren't going to buy it, unless there is functionality based reason that compels them too. Most of the your enterprise level application companys are problably going to drag there feet when it comes to adding support for it, until they can see the demand. Vista is too fresh in everyone's memory.
 
2012-06-17 12:06:23 AM

DamnYankees: I'm confused. Are the new Windows computers touchscreen or something?


Not exactly. First, let's define 'Windows computers': Microsoft does not make general-use computers. I assume you mean new machines running Windows 8, which are just regular computers of various kinds, including some touch devices such as pads and tablets.

Windows 8 is meant to be a head-to-head challenger to extant market touch-based UIs, and so it is -- in theory -- optimised for that purpose. On the one hand, this means that it has some design changes that may confuse or frustrate traditional desktop users. On the other, it sounds from TFA that some of the features don't work well for touch use, either.

The thrust of TFA is that MS should have gone with their older model of different UIs for different users -- a more traditional UI for desktop users, especially enterprise users, and reserve the touch-optimised UI for those environments where touch use is predominant. There's a lot more, but these are the main issues.
 
2012-06-17 12:07:12 AM
Don't like it? Get a Mac
 
2012-06-17 12:08:23 AM
Ha, they said that about Zune too and look how well Zune died.
 
2012-06-17 12:11:16 AM

runcible spork: Thanks again!


No Problem :)

moothemagiccow: I made this comment when the demo first arrived at trade shows last year.


I think the word that popped into my head when I first tested it was disjointed.
 
2012-06-17 12:11:34 AM

Archimedes' Principal: Windows 8 was expected to suck. It's the next version after a successful one.

/ Windows8, Windows7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows ME, etc.


You want to know why? Because Microsoft thinks they should be a market leader and direct their clients "forward". And they absolutely farking SUCK at it. They have the aesthetic and functional intuition of a black velvet oil painting. So after every disaster they have to give their clients what they're braying for with pitchforks at the ready.
 
2012-06-17 12:14:13 AM

wee: cman: Hopefully Windows 8 will be such a flop that companies that make OSes stop this bullshiat mobile on desktop philosophy.

fark Windows 8, fark GNOME 3, fark Unity

I agree. And I must say, I'm digging Xfce lately. It'd been a while since Id seen it, and it's come along nicely. If Unity did one thing for me, it was getting me to come across a great alternative.


Every time I read about Win8, I think of all the things I don't like about Unity. What you said is exactly how I feel about it: If it hadn't been for unity, I never would have checked out Mint.

I'm making myself use the current Unity on my spare (under 12.04), in the hopes of getting used to it, though I think I'll never like it. But I run a Metacity-like hack of Gnome3 on my daily driver (under 11.10 with Unity crippled). I've got a bunch of other desks to choose from, including Xfce, but I rarely use them. I installed Mint on a junker in the corner, and I think it's pretty sweet. It's like my quasi-Metacity, except that real experts did all the work for me (and didn't break anything along the way). I also test-drove Puppy on that, which defaults to Xfce, and I found it just as usable as any other basic desktop.
 
2012-06-17 12:21:59 AM
What else did I forget for the witty repartee?

how about 'you probably have man-boobs'
 
2012-06-17 12:29:15 AM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: What else did I forget for the witty repartee?

how about 'you probably have man-boobs'



That's going on in a different thread.
 
2012-06-17 12:34:46 AM
Windows 8 thread!

Somewhere along the line, MS missed an important market research point. Consumers are going to return their PCs in droves the moment they can't play Farmville by touching/clicking on the "Internet Explorer" button on the "desktop". (Assuming MS hasn't paid Zynga to have a Farmville app on Day 1)

Yes, I know you can install other OS/run IE 10 in full mode but think of the ordinary consumer.

/been using Win8 on a touchscreen tablet, it's okay but the average corporate user is going to freak.
//corporations don't want to spend time doing registry hacks to get things to work like removing Metro
 
2012-06-17 12:35:57 AM
Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
 
2012-06-17 12:39:45 AM
I'm running Windows 8 on my laptop and I'm going to wipe my drive and put 7 back on it. 8 is going to be Vista 2nd Edition and Metro is the reason why. First thing I do when the "Start" menu comes up is go to the desktop.

The Start button worked since Win95 and most Windows users are used to it. All Metro is going to do is piss those users off. If Apple were smart about this, they could snatch some PC users due to Microsoft's blunder.
 
2012-06-17 12:42:13 AM

RandomAxe: Windows' general design has been going downhill since 3.11, and that one wasn't terrific, either.

I've stuck with XP because XP was actually an improvement over its immediate predecessors. Expecting any later version to be an improvement on XP is an act of absurd optimism, and I'm rarely absurd and optimistic at the same time.


I actually liked 3.11 a lot. I still consider it the last fully stable and coherent version of Windows ever. Primitive by modern standards, it was very usable for its time, and surprisingly versatile considering the inherent limitations of a general-use desktop with the hardware of the time.

XP is great to use, but it's hopelessly outdated at this point. Most critically, besides not being supported anymore, I understand that it's impossible to secure anymore, even if it was still supported. Running XP at this late date is an open invitation to malware, and from what I hear, no one can do anything about it.

I suggest you give Win7 a whirl. It's not that much of a departure from XP -- it mostly just looks different, but works more or less the same (barring some navigation and organising changes that still confuse me sometimes, but they're not a huge deal) -- and if TFA is correct, it'll be around and still supported for some time to come yet.

I also, as any good Linux geek would do, suggest you test-drive a Linux live CD. These are (usually) DVD-ROMs that you can download and burn for free, that boot up and run live, so you can check it out without installing anything. They're slower than an installed system, and you obviously can't upgrade or hack them, but it's enough to give you an idea of what they're like. Ubuntu is a popular one, though you'll hear some of us biatching about the default desktop, Unity. (Some of what this guy is saying about Win8 is similar, in my mind, to some of our complaints about Unity. But a lot of people seem to like it, and you might be one of them. In Linux, you can choose other desktops, too, so you're not stuck with just one if you don't like it.) Mint is a 'fork' (offshoot) of Ubuntu that's more like older (pre-Unity) Ubuntu, in the same way that Win7 is more like Vista or XP that Win8 is. (One of the points made in TFA is that if MS supplied a Win7-like option, it would be better; but they don't.) Fedora is a long-running and very robust and well-supported fork of Redhat, which is a popular enterprise Linux distro. ('Distros' or distributions are specific implementations of Linux.) If you have a good-size hard drive, you can run Linux alongside, as a dual-boot option (not at the same time; except-- no, I shouldn't get into that here). There are dozens of distros, but the few I've listed here are some of the best for beginners as well as longtime users; I use Ubuntu myself (though rarely with the default Unity desktop).

My point is, you should get off of XP because it's insecure and will only get worse, and soon will start breaking down, as more and more application upgrades are no longer compatible with it. And that's assuming it's not ravaged first by malware. Win7 is a realistic and sane upgrade option you should strongly consider. (I'd actually advise a full wipe and reinstall, for a clean, bug-free new OS -- you might accidentally port over some XP malware if you upgrade in place.) I also suggest you at least look at Linux, and consider installing it alongside under dual boot.
 
2012-06-17 12:42:19 AM
simplicimus: Corporations are going to love the UI and all the extra personnel training that goes with it, as will any help support people.

They aren't going to buy it, unless there is functionality based reason that compels them too. Most of the your enterprise level application companys are problably going to drag there feet when it comes to adding support for it, until they can see the demand. Vista is too fresh in everyone's memory.


Windows 8 is going to make the Vista cratering look like a golf divot. With the economy, no one is going to spend the money to upgrade unless they absolutely need to, and as the article mentioned, there is no overwhelming demand. Training budgets are a thing of the past, so they don't want anything that is not intuitive. Everything works fine with 7, so why spend the money. The government, one of microsoft's largest customers, is under pressure to make cuts, so they won't upgrade, businesses don't want the cost or productivity drop so they won't upgrade, the only thing left is individuals buying new machines, and if vendors are offering 7, most of them will take it because they know it will work with the software they already have.
 
2012-06-17 12:51:35 AM

moothemagiccow: The two uses are distinct, purposeful and never going to be confused. This is like people freaking out about wood-cutting tools and the past tense of "to see." Relax


FTFY.
 
2012-06-17 12:55:16 AM

mamoru: dennysgod: Win7 is most certainly an improvement over XP, Win7 makes XP look like Win98r2

I agree. So far, Win7 is the best Windows ever made. It's pretty much outstanding. And this is coming from a Mac user (on a MacBook Pro, I dual boot using MacOS for work and general use and Win7 for gaming).

Flint Ironstag: Why should I change? XP runs all the programmes I want, and that's all I want an OS to do.

So you can use more than 3GB of RAM? If you don't have that much, then it won't affect you, but this was the main driving force that got me to upgrade from XP to 7. And I'm glad I did. 7 had a lot of little things that it seems to do better than XP, and overall things seem more stable and at least as fast if not faster. Just my experience, though.


Something that totally amazed me was that I was doing a lot of development on a project, when Win 7 came out, that only ran in Full Screen mode. Switching from Full Screen to windowed and back would sometimes (in XP) take many seconds, if not up to a minute, if my swapper was hit hard, which was a lot of the time, considering I only had 2 gigs, and was doing development. The first time I did a switch-do-something-switch-back and it went from full-screen to windowed to full-screen almost instantly, and I was never going back to XP.
 
2012-06-17 12:56:55 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: suggest you test-drive a Linux live CD. These are (usually) DVD-ROMs that you can download and burn for free, that boot up and run live, so you can check it out without installing anything. They're slower than an installed system, and you obviously can't upgrade or hack them,


install it to a flash drive and boot to USB. Nearly on pace with a hard disk install, hackable, configurable and if your flash drive has the capacity it's static.

I run SLAX, PuppyArcade, Hiren's and Xubuntu from a 32gig Flash drive.
 
2012-06-17 01:22:11 AM
My prediction is they will release a tablet that is more powerful than the iPad and significantly cheaper. Sure, the OS might not jerk you off like the iOS does, but people will buy it anyways because it's cheaper. With time Apple will be crushed back into obscurity like it was in the 90s. Then, sometime in 2028, they will reanimate Steve Job's corpse and he will head up the third coming of Apple by innovating other people's products in shiny new boxes and marketing them with quirky commercials and catchy songs.
 
2012-06-17 01:30:57 AM
What Plants Crave: ...

re: Rainmeter.

I should probably take this to e-mail, but the thread is kind of muddy now anyway. Sooo... two questions:

1· How safe is it to plug in passwords for things like gmail, gcal, rtm, etc.?
2· Which theme is that in the screen capture? It looks sort of like the one called "Enigma." Is it that, with modifications, or something else (someone else's or your own baby)?

Thanks yet again.
 
2012-06-17 01:32:10 AM

blipponaut: My prediction is they will release a tablet that is more powerful than the iPad and significantly cheaper. Sure, the OS might not jerk you off like the iOS does, but people will buy it anyways because it's cheaper. With time Apple will be crushed back into obscurity like it was in the 90s. Then, sometime in 2028, they will reanimate Steve Job's corpse and he will head up the third coming of Apple by innovating other people's products in shiny new boxes and marketing them with quirky commercials and catchy songs.


Yes, your post is tongue in cheek snark. It would have a grain of truth to make it extra funny if Apple was not blowing a hefty chunk of their massive profits on making the entire OEM industry into their biaches. They are going full octopus. MS could only offer something cheaper if Apple chooses to let them. If Apple deems Win 8 tablets a threat Apple will use their control of the supply chain to starve and undercut Win 8 tablet makers.
 
2012-06-17 01:33:07 AM
Read this slowly. The Metro interface is not required for desktops. You can turn it off.

Every time Windows 8 comes up, all you hear is "I don't want to use an interface styled for mobiles on my desktop, and that's why Windows 8 is gonna suck." See, the thing is, you don't have to use it. Metro is an option. The non-Metro desktop for Windows 8 looks remarkably similar to Windows 7, with some improvements.
 
2012-06-17 01:33:49 AM

Archimedes' Principal: Windows 8 was expected to suck. It's the next version after a successful one.

/ Windows8, Windows7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows ME, etc.


So it's like Star Trek films, then. I was beginning to think that myself.

It also reminds me of this favourite old chestnut:

ts2.mm.bing.netts2.mm.bing.netts4.mm.bing.netts2.mm.bing.net

ts2.mm.bing.netts4.mm.bing.netts4.mm.bing.netts2.mm.bing.net

ts4.mm.bing.netts2.mm.bing.netts3.mm.bing.netts1.mm.bing.net
 
2012-06-17 01:38:06 AM

FormlessOne: Read this slowly. The Metro interface is not required for desktops. You can turn it off.

Every time Windows 8 comes up, all you hear is "I don't want to use an interface styled for mobiles on my desktop, and that's why Windows 8 is gonna suck." See, the thing is, you don't have to use it. Metro is an option. The non-Metro desktop for Windows 8 looks remarkably similar to Windows 7, with some improvements.


No, you can't. There are no built-in options to turn off Metro and Microsoft is doing everything they can to make sure hacks to turn it off and/or return the old Start button will not be possible in the final release. Know what you're talking about before you reply like you know what you're talking about.
 
2012-06-17 01:39:13 AM

FormlessOne: Read this slowly. The Metro interface is not required for desktops. You can turn it off.

Every time Windows 8 comes up, all you hear is "I don't want to use an interface styled for mobiles on my desktop, and that's why Windows 8 is gonna suck." See, the thing is, you don't have to use it. Metro is an option. The non-Metro desktop for Windows 8 looks remarkably similar to Windows 7, with some improvements.


O_o

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/windows8/microsoft-windows-8-bus in esses-143238

"Related to this second point is information I've received that Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor. In fact, I've seen that several well-known UI hacks that worked fine with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview are no longer functional in the coming Release Preview. And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment. That feature not only isn't happening, it's being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8's stable mate) as well."
 
2012-06-17 01:42:02 AM
I still use WinXP. I tried both Vista and Win7, but the thing that drives me nuts is the "new and improved" tree layout.

The &&^^$$ lines fade in and out (mouse over), and the + is replaced by some new widget. I HATE IT.

I do a lot of programming and the tree layout shows me the class layout. In XP I just glance over, but in Win7 I need to mouse over and then WAIT for the lines to re-appear.

/yes, I am anal about this
//Fark Microsoft for makes changes for changes sake.
 
2012-06-17 01:42:59 AM

deadguyinc: FormlessOne: Read this slowly. The Metro interface is not required for desktops. You can turn it off.

Every time Windows 8 comes up, all you hear is "I don't want to use an interface styled for mobiles on my desktop, and that's why Windows 8 is gonna suck." See, the thing is, you don't have to use it. Metro is an option. The non-Metro desktop for Windows 8 looks remarkably similar to Windows 7, with some improvements.

No, you can't. There are no built-in options to turn off Metro and Microsoft is doing everything they can to make sure hacks to turn it off and/or return the old Start button will not be possible in the final release. Know what you're talking about before you reply like you know what you're talking about.



Good lord. I can't believe how much biatching there is over the refactoring of the start button, which most people have quit using in favor of the Win7 taskbar.

How freakin' hard is this: Windows key, W key, O key, Enter. That's what it takes to launch word in Windows 8.

I will grant you, digging around with a mouse in the Start Screen takes a bit of patience, but then, so does digging through nested folders in the Start Menu.


/Disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee, but my opinions are my own and do not represent those of Microsoft.
 
2012-06-17 01:43:36 AM

Aar1012: Don't like it? Get a Mac


Are you aware that 'Jobs' means something different in the PC world?
 
2012-06-17 01:45:23 AM

LeftCoast_eh: I still use WinXP. I tried both Vista and Win7, but the thing that drives me nuts is the "new and improved" tree layout.

The &&^^$$ lines fade in and out (mouse over), and the + is replaced by some new widget. I HATE IT.

I do a lot of programming and the tree layout shows me the class layout. In XP I just glance over, but in Win7 I need to mouse over and then WAIT for the lines to re-appear.

/yes, I am anal about this
//Fark Microsoft for makes changes for changes sake.



dondueck.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-17 01:45:41 AM
You can, however, still pin non-Metro applications to the Desktop taskbar and it will cut down the amount of interaction you have to have with Metro

As for anyone claiming to have an opinion about the OS without having used it at all, it's free right now, so go get it, install it, and use it. THEN I might care about what you have to say.
 
2012-06-17 01:45:52 AM

pjbreeze: Ha, they said that about Zune too and look how well Zune died.


Zune did not die well.
 
2012-06-17 01:49:33 AM

Bloody Templar: deadguyinc: FormlessOne: Read this slowly. The Metro interface is not required for desktops. You can turn it off.

Every time Windows 8 comes up, all you hear is "I don't want to use an interface styled for mobiles on my desktop, and that's why Windows 8 is gonna suck." See, the thing is, you don't have to use it. Metro is an option. The non-Metro desktop for Windows 8 looks remarkably similar to Windows 7, with some improvements.

No, you can't. There are no built-in options to turn off Metro and Microsoft is doing everything they can to make sure hacks to turn it off and/or return the old Start button will not be possible in the final release. Know what you're talking about before you reply like you know what you're talking about.


Good lord. I can't believe how much biatching there is over the refactoring of the start button, which most people have quit using in favor of the Win7 taskbar.

How freakin' hard is this: Windows key, W key, O key, Enter. That's what it takes to launch word in Windows 8.

I will grant you, digging around with a mouse in the Start Screen takes a bit of patience, but then, so does digging through nested folders in the Start Menu.


/Disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee, but my opinions are my own and do not represent those of Microsoft.


Yeah, it's really not this basket of evil some people seem to think it is. Then again, neither was Vista. The Internet Hate Echo Chamber at work. Most of the people who shiat on Vista have never used it, either.
 
2012-06-17 01:51:12 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: pjbreeze: Ha, they said that about Zune too and look how well Zune died.

Zune did not die well.



Zune didn't die. It's alive and well, though about to be rolled into the Xbox brand. On a side note, the Zune $9.99 all-you-can-listen music subscription is awesome if you have Windows Phone and Xbox 360.
 
2012-06-17 01:53:57 AM

jso2897: Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.


www.dodaj.rs
The banjo becomes angry at midnight.
 
2012-06-17 01:58:02 AM

Bloody Templar: /Disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee, but my opinions are my own and do not represent those of Microsoft.


Riddle me this: Is SCCM 2007 always a flaky, finicky, laggy rage inducer or is it just the implementation at my company (implemented by MS consultants BTW) just borked?
 
2012-06-17 01:58:30 AM

t3knomanser: VS2012's UI is pretty awful, which is their stab at Metrofying their dev tools.

All caps menus? Check!
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 452x58]

shiatty icon? Check! I call this "Visual Studio: Purple Bowtie Edition"
[lh6.googleusercontent.com image 129x41]

Do you want to copy and paste your error messages from a Unit Test into a search engine? Too farking bad!
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 346x99]

You can't select that text to copy it.

I'm also really fond of this one, where the final step marking the job as complete is indented under the other lines, but doesn't merit a little check to indicate it's complete.
[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 497x107]

It's sad, because VS2012 is generally a big improvement. But the UI is a disaster. I have a sense that it will be the same for Windows 8 overall. Generally better, but with a disaster of a UI.


That's a shame because I think VS 2008 is phenomenal. I started working with Xcode but I still prefer VS. Maybe I just need to get used to it but it's so much easier to manage files in VS. The only big bug I hate is that if you have two instances of VS open the window scheme can get fubared.
 
2012-06-17 02:08:55 AM

runcible spork: What Plants Crave: ...

re: Rainmeter.

I should probably take this to e-mail, but the thread is kind of muddy now anyway. Sooo... two questions:

1· How safe is it to plug in passwords for things like gmail, gcal, rtm, etc.?
2· Which theme is that in the screen capture? It looks sort of like the one called "Enigma." Is it that, with modifications, or something else (someone else's or your own baby)?

Thanks yet again.


That's partly my fault I would wager. Sorry about that folks.

1. I don't use those features, but if you have application specific passwords setup in gmail I would think that is reasonably safe. Rainmeter is a fairly popular app as well, so if there were major security issues those would have come to light by now.

2. One of the default skins, Gnometer with some very minor tweaks. Coretemp has to be running for the rainmeter plugin to function. Then it's a matter of messing with the system template to insert the temperature information. Colors can be changed using the built-in config tool.
 
2012-06-17 02:09:38 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: jso2897: Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.


The banjo becomes angry at midnight.


Flag on the moon. How did it get there?

/Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
 
2012-06-17 02:09:56 AM

dustman81: I'm running Windows 8 on my laptop and I'm going to wipe my drive and put 7 back on it. 8 is going to be Vista 2nd Edition and Metro is the reason why. First thing I do when the "Start" menu comes up is go to the desktop.

The Start button worked since Win95 and most Windows users are used to it. All Metro is going to do is piss those users off. If Apple were smart about this, they could snatch some PC users due to Microsoft's blunder.


Okay, this myth has got to stop. Apple's not going to steal from Microsoft. It's not just two different operating systems, it's two very different cultures. It's like saying [insert any indie artist here] will steal listeners who are fed up with Barry Manilow. It's not going to happen. The majority of Windows users are locked into that singular mindset, and can't imagine anything else. It would probably take the complete collapse of Microsoft -- *plus* ten years -- to get them to jump ship like that.

More, Microsoft's business core isn't users who have that choice to begin with, or likely ever will. It's corporate users who make across-the-board decisions of that kind for the whole company (save for the Yodas in the basement, of course). And *they* are not going to go for that change, as long as Windows remains usable at all, and as long as whatever Apple is more costly -- which it *always* is: Remember, switching to Apple isn't like switching to Linux. If you go to Apple, you also have to BUY THE WHOLE DAMN MACHINE. What business is going to replace every machine in their company because a lot of their employees are whining about some new change? It's not like companies don't deal with whining all the time; they're not going to be moved by this, either. Certainly not enough to make a costly and sweeping change like that.

TFA is probably right. Enterprises users will stubbornly refuse to move up if they decide they hate it. But they'll just keep using whatever they're using, not jump ship. And that's the only sector MS has to care about, because the *small* minority of the much smaller home market who might be tempted aren't enough to worry about.
 
2012-06-17 02:15:24 AM

blipponaut: My prediction is they will release a tablet that is more powerful than the iPad and significantly cheaper. Sure, the OS might not jerk you off like the iOS does, but people will buy it anyways because it's cheaper. With time Apple will be crushed back into obscurity like it was in the 90s. Then, sometime in 2028, they will reanimate Steve Job's corpse and he will head up the third coming of Apple by innovating other people's products in shiny new boxes and marketing them with quirky commercials and catchy songs.


s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2012-06-17 02:20:37 AM

bootman: Bloody Templar: /Disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee, but my opinions are my own and do not represent those of Microsoft.

Riddle me this: Is SCCM 2007 always a flaky, finicky, laggy rage inducer or is it just the implementation at my company (implemented by MS consultants BTW) just borked?



I'm a Premier Field Engineer in developer technologies, so I'm not really up on SCCM, but I do know that current iterations of SCCM are generally solid.
 
2012-06-17 02:23:55 AM

bootman: blipponaut: My prediction is they will release a tablet that is more powerful than the iPad and significantly cheaper. Sure, the OS might not jerk you off like the iOS does, but people will buy it anyways because it's cheaper. With time Apple will be crushed back into obscurity like it was in the 90s. Then, sometime in 2028, they will reanimate Steve Job's corpse and he will head up the third coming of Apple by innovating other people's products in shiny new boxes and marketing them with quirky commercials and catchy songs.

Yes, your post is tongue in cheek snark. It would have a grain of truth to make it extra funny if Apple was not blowing a hefty chunk of their massive profits on making the entire OEM industry into their biaches. They are going full octopus. MS could only offer something cheaper if Apple chooses to let them. If Apple deems Win 8 tablets a threat Apple will use their control of the supply chain to starve and undercut Win 8 tablet makers.


It's snark, but I'm pretty sure it's not tongue in cheek. It definitely rings true for me, so either my id is sarcastic and I don't know it, or it's a pretty good bet that history will repeat itself. We saw what happened the last time Jobs left the company. And he's not coming back. It could definitely happen again, if Apple loses its way again, and there's no special reason to assume that can't or won't happen.

I'm taking this partly from the expanded treatise on Parkinson's Law: At the point where a large and successful firm builds its greatest monument to itself, that is its apex; it's all downhill from there. A company that is totally focused on its core success doesn't have time to plan and build something like Apple's grand new torus building. That building's very existence should be a warning sign to Apple investors. And to prudent customers. If they have any.
 
2012-06-17 02:28:20 AM
So much butthurt in these comments.
 
2012-06-17 02:34:24 AM

deadguyinc: Yeah, it's really not this basket of evil some people seem to think it is. Then again, neither was Vista. The Internet Hate Echo Chamber at work. Most of the people who shiat on Vista have never used it, either.


Yeah, I still don't get that, either. I used Vista and thought it was fine.
 
2012-06-17 02:36:33 AM

Bloody Templar: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: pjbreeze: Ha, they said that about Zune too and look how well Zune died.

Zune did not die well.


Zune didn't die. It's alive and well, though about to be rolled into the Xbox brand. On a side note, the Zune $9.99 all-you-can-listen music subscription is awesome if you have Windows Phone and Xbox 360.


I stand corrected, thanks! I thought it was long gone. My mistake.

/reminds me, Netscape email is still around, too
 
2012-06-17 02:50:48 AM

gochuck: So much butthurt in these comments.


Microsoft needs to whisper lubricating, soothing things in their users' ears. "Shhh... You're paying for a super-advanced, but myopically misunderstood product" works wonders across various industries... I'm looking at you, Apple, BMW, Monster Cables, and anything targeted at "gamers."

/right tool for the right job.
 
2012-06-17 02:59:31 AM

KushanMadman: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: jso2897: Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.


The banjo becomes angry at midnight.

Flag on the moon. How did it get there?

/Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.


^^^
www.jabootu.com

encrypted-tbn1.google.com
"Yeah, Dad, I got my leg up!"
 
2012-06-17 03:21:47 AM
What Plants Crave: That's why I started pinning things to the start menu and switching to small icons. 95% of the programs I use on any given day are right there or in the quick-launch bar. On the odd occasion I need anything else then I go the the scroll or search route.

I do the same here in Ubuntu (icons on gnome panels), but for the newest version of ubuntu, they did stupid stuff.

// still rocking 10.04 (LTS), got 1 more year of support.
 
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