dosboot: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

My dad has been bed bound for over 2 years. He requires two attendants 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I couldn't afford to pay the helpers minimum wage. Instead I pay $140 a day, plus free room and board. The alternative is putting my dad in a nursing home which based upon my experience is not an acceptable due to the mal and mistreatment of the patients.c.

For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

I expect the taxpayers to foot the bill. I assume you and your father are Americans. I assume he worked most, if not all, of his healthy, adult years. After raising a family and working hard all his life, he deserves some help.

Why are we going to bother with government or any part of posing as a nation at all, if we aren't going to take care of one another? If we aren't willing to function as a community; an extended family, and care for one another, what is the point of being a nation?

dosboot: For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

God forbid taxpayers should have to subsidize such evils as livable wages and quality care for the elderly.

dosboot: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

My dad has been bed bound for over 2 years. He requires two attendants 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I couldn't afford to pay the helpers minimum wage. Instead I pay $140 a day, plus free room and board. The alternative is putting my dad in a nursing home which based upon my experience is not an acceptable due to the mal and mistreatment of the patients.c.

For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

Goddammit, you teabaggers are the whiniest most entitled bunch of assholes who have ever set foot on this planet. Worse than the Roman aristocracy. Worse than the Chinese emperors and the Saudi royal house combined. You bastards think that you have the right to employ slaves to do your work.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Let the free market determine how many times Grandpa gets bathed and fed!

/Or something

Here are some somethings:

1) Let's see how often grandpa's meds are stolen and sold on the black market to raise some extra cash.
2) Let's see how often helpless grandma is abused because the market is filled with angry losers who cannot even get a minimum wage job.
3) Let's see how many times grandpa ends up in the emergency room because his home health care worker is trained and paid less than a McDonald's fry cook.

Triumph: Shame on all those filthy rich elderly infirmed who are taking advantage of the people who change their diapers. They make the poor home health care workers wipe their asses with hundred dollar bills while paying them next to nothing. We must find the political will to stop these sadistic bedridden villains.

Generally, medicare and medicaid pay the home health care companies that send the home health care worker to your home. Not paying the workers does not save the patients or their families money. It allows the home health care companies to keep a larger profit and may prevent the government from spending quite so much money.

Steve Zodiac: Bathia_Mapes: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Yeah, how dare those selfless folks who cook, clean, and bathe the home-bound all day be paid a fair wage!

These same folks likely don't pay their household staff (housekeeper, maid, etc.) minimum wage.

Of course they don't. Their domestic help is comprised of people from other countries. And if those workers turn out to be here illegally, well, they will be SHOCKED! The fact that they were not paying them the legal minimum or collecting taxes does NOT suggest that they knew that their help was here illegally, or that they were taking advantage of them.

Back in 2006, when there were huge protests and demonstrations about immigration policy, the immigrant domestic worker for my Republican friend's father participated in a walkout by not showing up for her shift on a certain day, and was summarily fired by said father.

My Republican friend thought it was the most awesome thing his dad had ever done.

Fast forward five years.

"Why the hell do all these Occupy idiots hate rich people?"

Bathia_Mapes: vernonFL: Well then perhaps medicare should cover it.

Have you ever BEEN to one of the old folks homes that Medicare covers?

They're worse than prison. I wouldn't send an ex Nazi prison guard there.

I've actually worked in such a home. It's a travesty as to how the U.S. treats many folks in their senior years.

Yeah, but the second anyone tries to suggest fixing or improving anything they're shunned by hordes of zombies droning about the evils of Socialism.

And those same hordes then vote to make things worse.

It's similar to the whole "Break the government, then complain that the government can't do anything" schtick.

Red Shirt Blues: Mugato: Weaver95: Mugato: Not a lot of apologists in this thread.

this is difficult to defend even for our dedicated GOP shills

Hear that, dedicated GOP shills? Are you going to just take that lying down?

Not a shill but it's not the minimum wage part but the required overtime part that may screw things up. You get a lot of seniors who want the same people there with them the majority of the time. If you have to pay OT medicare won't cover all of it and the seniors can't afford to cover the difference.

Agencies aren't going to pay overtime and some workers will actually lose income as they can't work ot. And many of these workers already make over the minimum wage.

I live in Fl and have elderly and health care workers as clients (cpa).

So since the seniors want the same people, those people shouldn't be paid for being there? What sense does that make? Your argument is ridiculous and makes health care workers sound like they should be slaves.

Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

There is something seriously wrong with this country. Mostly, it's an electorate composed of dribbling retards who want government out of their medicare, and want anyone making better wages than themselves to have those wages reduced. Unless of course that person was born wealthy, in which case they should have the terrible burden of paying taxes removed.

serial_crusher: How do you measure billable hours in that sort of job. If I was a live in caregiver who "works" a 24 hour shift involving lots of free time, I wouldn't really expect to bill all 24 of those hours.

There is no "free time". If I'm on the jobsite (the patient's residence) and not at my house or elsewhere, I'm on the clock. From the time I step inside, I'm on call to do whatever needs to be done for the person I'm working for anytime during that 24 hour period. If I'm asleep, I get up anytime I'm needed. If I'm eating, I stop anytime I'm called. If I'm taking a dump I pinch it off and go anytime I'm needed. The patient comes first, because they could die if I don't get to them.

If I'm on the clock 24 hours, I expect to be paid for those 24 hours. What if you had to sit at your office desk for 3 or 4 days straight and never leave the building, even to sleep? Wouldn't you expect to get paid for that time?

moothemagiccow: Gyrfalcon: oldcub: The headline made me very angry, but then I RTA and realized that these workers still have the opportunity to make minimum wage or more.

I'd rather my aged grandmother was being cared for by someone getting more than minimum wage, thanks. And the opportunity to start at a salary that reflects the kind of care I want her to have.

Protip for any naysayers out there: Whenever you hear about some caregiver stealing her/his charge's money, possessions etc.; or neglecting them and letting them starve; or abusing them and killing them--those are your home healthcare workers who had the opportunity to "make minimum wage" and took it. You get what you pay for, and if you're paying someone $8/hr to look after a feeble person who can't fight back, you're going to get exactly that.

So everyone who works for minimum wage is entitled to a light drawer because they deserve better? Somebody's got to work for peanuts.

I don't accept that assertion, I think that with reasonable tariffs that protect our labor force from being in competition with slave labor, we can ensure that people who work 40+ hours a week all have enough food, medicine, shelter, and safety to use whatever other time they may have towards bettering themselves or the world around them. We don't need slaves to make a good economy, continuing inflationary pressures across the board while only having greater income gains for the top class leads us to fiefdoms, not freedoms.

Weaver95: the GOP better hope that none of those health care workers are in a position to influence the elderly to vote Democrat instead of Republican....oh, wait.

oops.

Unfortunately, the GOP is ahead of you on this one. These people who are bedridden and housebound and chronically ill will soon need to go to the DMV to get IDs so they can vote.

MyRandomName: The Name: dosboot: For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

God forbid taxpayers should have to subsidize such evils as livable wages and quality care for the elderly.

Medicare is already one of the largest expenditures of the federal government. You really think the Feds should be paying 40k a year per senior for live-in help? At some point you have to ask what is actually a reasonable accommodation. Sorry, but not every elderly person gets a live in care take. The United States, nor any rational society, can afford it. Seniors average 300k in Medicare spending. They paid in less than 100k. Think about that. Not everything can be paid for magically cause it's the "right thing to do." If you continue on that path current workers are essentially slaves of the elderly.

Are you making the case that because they are on Medicare, they would get home health aides even if they weren't medically necessary? Because most seniors do just fine without them, as for the ones who can't be more mobile, yes, an HHA is frequently cheaper than nursing home care, so I would appreciate spending our money wisely instead of just reflexively being anti-everything without thinking it through. For every senior who would only need an HHA for an hour or two a day (way cheaper than an assisted living facility), who wouldn't be able to safely bathe or prepare food without help, yes every farking one of them should be able to get the help they need... poor as I am, if it means I have to work harder for other people not to frickin starve to death for want of a little help, I'll actually do it.

/ps, how is it the party of Christianity hates the poor, the infirmed, and the imprisoned so farking much?

Smeggy Smurf: Raspil: I'm so tired of the GOP, their evil and their shamelessness. I just can't with these motherf*ckers anymore.

As compared to the democrats that insist on taking so much from your paycheck that you'll never be able to rise above the place where you entered the work force?

Neither one are right. We need something different. This same shiat different day thing hasn't worked for decades. Don't be part of the problem.

Check your history book there for last year, the party fighting for payroll tax breaks was the Democrats, the party fighting against them was the Republicans. One party wants rich people to take home more of their money, one party wants you to... so let's keep pretending they're equal if only to placate your delusion.

Smeggy Smurf: As compared to the democrats that insist on taking so much from your paycheck that you'll never be able to rise above the place where you entered the work force?

You're stupid. Not because you haven't studied or learned anything, but because you regurgitate the propaganda you've been fed without questioning its accuracy (which is to say that is isn't accurate at all). Perhaps you wouldn't be so stupid if you started reading less fiction and started reading more facts. Just trying to help you out here... because you're stupid.

Of course your other option is to stop saying stupid things.

I'm so tired of the GOP, their evil and their shamelessness. I just can't with these motherf*ckers anymore.

I was in this line of work back when I got out of the service and before I worked for the V.A.

The way it worked (at least with me) was, I went to these clients' homes and provided care, whatever that may entail. Wound care, personal care, the list goes on. Some clients had me for longer times than others. Sometimes it was an hour, sometimes more.

At best this was a part time job - under 32 hours per week - no benefits. What's important to note is that, out of a typical 8 hour day (8am to 4pm for example), I may actually work with clients for 4 or 5 of those hours. The rest of the time was spent traveling from one location to another, or just waiting until it was time to go to the next client. So, if I wanted 8 hours of "pay", I would have to "work" sometimes 12 to 14 hours to get 8 hours of pay. If you don't have your own transportation and have to "bus it" to your clients, it can make for a long crappy day(no pun intended - maybe). I feel the least they could do is get a fair minimum wage. Besides, in most cases the HHC workers are paid by an agency, who bills the clients insurance for the labor.

Wonder how this ties in to Illinois' mandate that FAMILY register as Home Health Workers and Day Care workers, and the resulting attempts to FORCE both groups of VOLUNTEER family members to join a union and PAY UNION DUES? Some things aren't so one-sided as the group in the wrong would have voters believe!

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Just out of curiosity, if a home healthcare worker gets paid $5.00 an hour by their agency, how much is the agency charging per hour for that worker?

In Texas, agencies charge about $20 an hour for sitter services and the sitter gets $7.50-$10 an hour. Medicare doesn't usually pay for sitter services. The article is not correct about sitters monitoring vital signs. A reputable agency wouldn't put itself at risk for having non-licensed staff performing medical tasks or making decisions that require medical judgement.

The standard shift is 12 hours for live-out companions.

rewind2846: serial_crusher: How do you measure billable hours in that sort of job. If I was a live in caregiver who "works" a 24 hour shift involving lots of free time, I wouldn't really expect to bill all 24 of those hours.

There is no "free time". If I'm on the jobsite (the patient's residence) and not at my house or elsewhere, I'm on the clock. From the time I step inside, I'm on call to do whatever needs to be done for the person I'm working for anytime during that 24 hour period. If I'm asleep, I get up anytime I'm needed. If I'm eating, I stop anytime I'm called. If I'm taking a dump I pinch it off and go anytime I'm needed. The patient comes first, because they could die if I don't get to them.

If I'm on the clock 24 hours, I expect to be paid for those 24 hours. What if you had to sit at your office desk for 3 or 4 days straight and never leave the building, even to sleep? Wouldn't you expect to get paid for that time?

Yea, seriously. Why should you be the only person expected to be considered to be off the clock the second you aren't being productive? Nobody else, in any industry, is held to that standard. Downtime is a fact of life in every job.

Cataholic: sk8r: I rarely venture into the politics tab. Now I know how the real lawyers on Fark feel when the GED lawyers whip it out.

I'll just finish loading my gun and sipping on this whiskey while I real this thread.

Former CMS worker- Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Nurse manger for nice home care company- we pay WAY above minimum. Amazed at what I'm reading here. Please don't vote anymore.

Just put up the Welcome to Fark meme. I like the crying guy the best.

And welcome to the FARK politics tab....where someone who actually knows what they are talking about are usually shouted down as a troll. Fact is, this is considered a Republican insanely farktarded dumbass idea and it will be shouted down as evil no matter how practical or reasonable it may be. If the thought of some of these folks voting scares you, imagine them serving on juries.

FTFY, Fark hates the stupid when it comes from the Dems, the fact that more Republicans seem to latch on to functionally retarded (evil?) policy proposals doesn't make fark anti-republican, still just anti-stupid. Ask around fark how many of em support Dodd-Frank, ask how many supported quality initiatives from the Dems like DADT. Frankly, for the Republican legislators who might read fark... stop being stupid and we'll stop calling you stupid.

Smeggy Smurf: Raspil: I'm so tired of the GOP, their evil and their shamelessness. I just can't with these motherf*ckers anymore.

As compared to the democrats that insist on taking so much from your paycheck that you'll never be able to rise above the place where you entered the work force?

Neither one are right. We need something different. This same shiat different day thing hasn't worked for decades. Don't be part of the problem.


I will dislike the GOP if I want to because they openly and unapologetically do f*ckheaded hypocritical things that they know will hurt people and don't give a damn. That makes me "part of the problem"? Okay, if you say so, whoever you are. And to assume you know my lot in life from when I entered the workforce until now is pretty weird, but do what you want, it's fine with me.

Smeggy Smurf: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

The job is typically filled by CNAs that aren't good enough to wipe asses in a hospital or have gotten themselves fired from every hospital for misconduct. They shouldn't be working in the medical field in the first place let alone making good money doing it.

My home health person in Florida was great while I was re-learning to walk again... she was courteous, professional, and competent, she was exceedingly good at her job and certainly worth well over minimum wage. I'm pretty sure she made 15 or 16 an hour, imo she's worth more, but if she made much more, I probably wouldn't be able to get those services. Either way, since many of you haven't yet had the experience, I can assure you that when you are faceplanted on the floor in your bathroom and waiting for a scheduled someone to show up, you probably want someone who you've been paying like a professional, because they'll be on time. If you send the message that the person you employ in this capacity is not valued, guess how much they're going to value being timely for you?

Cataholic: sk8r: I rarely venture into the politics tab. Now I know how the real lawyers on Fark feel when the GED lawyers whip it out.

I'll just finish loading my gun and sipping on this whiskey while I real this thread.

Former CMS worker- Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Nurse manger for nice home care company- we pay WAY above minimum. Amazed at what I'm reading here. Please don't vote anymore.

Just put up the Welcome to Fark meme. I like the crying guy the best.

And welcome to the FARK politics tab....where someone who actually knows what they are talking about are usually shouted down as a troll. Fact is, this is considered a Republican idea and it will be shouted down as evil no matter how practical or reasonable it may be. If the thought of some of these folks voting scares you, imagine them serving on juries.

Sk8r has stated that his/her company pays home health workers more than minimum wage. Are the two of you so obtuse that you are unable to realize that it would be detrimental to Sk8rs' company to compete with home health care providers who refuse to pay their workers minimum wage? Sk8r should be all about this proposed law.

Because FARK YOU grandma and fark the people who will one day likely be changing my soiled knickers.

Whose business is it of anyone aside from home health care workers and their employers how much money they make?

Don't like the money? Don't take the job.

Or better yet, learn how to stand up for YOUR OWN SELFISH INTEREST and negotiate an acceptable salary.

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: They'd probably just fritter it away on food and health care anyway.

Yeah, that money can be better used to bet on the people who own their houses defaulting!

ToxicMunkee: Don't let these people have money to put into the economy, whatever you do!

They'd probably just fritter it away on food and health care anyway.

Johnny Swank: Given that these aging Baby Boomers overwhelmingly vote republican against their own self-interests, I say fark em. Let them shiat themselves and die off early. It's do this country a world of good. This is the shiat they voted for, let them deal with it. I have zero pity for these assholes.



Yup. That's what this really is about. Welcome to Generational Warfare

dosboot: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

My dad has been bed bound for over 2 years. He requires two attendants 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I couldn't afford to pay the helpers minimum wage. Instead I pay $140 a day, plus free room and board. The alternative is putting my dad in a nursing home which based upon my experience is not an acceptable due to the mal and mistreatment of the patients.c.

For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

Don't gotta worry about that both my parents died before I turned 25

Fark Me To Tears: You folks have nothing to complain about. You keep voting these assholes into office. WTF do you expect?

/The Great Screwing continues...

THIS

Smeggy Smurf: quickdraw:
I have never met anyone in home health service that was like the people you are describing. Most had no medical background other than the training they got for their certificate. All of them are conscientious caring folks.

Must be a southern Idaho thing. The home health care here is atrocious.


It's not a matter of regional variances. It's not even usually a matter of what company you're dealing with. It comes down to the local house-level supervision and how well they work with/wrangle staff.

/Used to work in MR/DD assisted living
//Lasted 4 years before I couldn't take any more

Red Shirt Blues: Mugato: Weaver95: Mugato: Not a lot of apologists in this thread.

this is difficult to defend even for our dedicated GOP shills

Hear that, dedicated GOP shills? Are you going to just take that lying down?

Not a shill but it's not the minimum wage part but the required overtime part that may screw things up. You get a lot of seniors who want the same people there with them the majority of the time. If you have to pay OT medicare won't cover all of it and the seniors can't afford to cover the difference.

Agencies aren't going to pay overtime and some workers will actually lose income as they can't work ot. And many of these workers already make over the minimum wage.

I live in Fl and have elderly and health care workers as clients (cpa).

Sounds like the bill needs to include provisions, if it does not already, to ensure that medicare covers any necessary overtime costs.

Something tells me that with all the illegals being deported and then Obama making it so that they can get work vouchers that we have the REAL reason behind this move. Some GOPer doesn't want to pay a fair and decent wage to a migrant that up until now they've been exploiting.

WhyteRaven74: dosboot: Why do you think the current administration is not fully enforcing the immigration laws?

So why are deportations of illegals up by quite a bit?

He's not rounding up anyone who looks Mexican (or close enough) and putting them in camps, therefore he's not doing enough.

quickdraw: Smeggy Smurf: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

The job is typically filled by CNAs that aren't good enough to wipe asses in a hospital or have gotten themselves fired from every hospital for misconduct. They shouldn't be working in the medical field in the first place let alone making good money doing it.

I have never met anyone in home health service that was like the people you are describing. Most had no medical background other than the training they got for their certificate. All of them are conscientious caring folks.

Looks like Weaver95 hit the nail square on the head.

Weaver95: Mugato: Not a lot of apologists in this thread.

this is difficult to defend even for our dedicated GOP shills. I suspect they won't bother trying to discuss this issue. I'd look for personal attacks and change of subject. they'll do anything to avoid discussion this petty and spiteful legislation, and focus on any issue OTHER than this topic.

quickdraw: Smeggy Smurf: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

The job is typically filled by CNAs that aren't good enough to wipe asses in a hospital or have gotten themselves fired from every hospital for misconduct. They shouldn't be working in the medical field in the first place let alone making good money doing it.

I have never met anyone in home health service that was like the people you are describing. Most had no medical background other than the training they got for their certificate. All of them are conscientious caring folks.

Seconded. My father in law needed home care in the final stages of his cancer, and his caregiver was one of the kindest, most caring persons I have ever met.

So now anecdotes.

dosboot: Why do you think the current administration is not fully enforcing the immigration laws?

So why are deportations of illegals up by quite a bit?

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Yeah, how dare those selfless folks who cook, clean, and bathe the home-bound all day be paid a fair wage!

Come on, it's not like they're doing something important. They'e only caring for the elderly, the disabled, and the dying. It's only Grandma, for heavens' sake.

Don't Troll Me Bro!: What's that? You've chosen a profession that isn't 100% about making as much money as possible, at any and all costs to everything and everyone else? F*CK YOU, YOU GODDAMNED HIPPIE!!! YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH MURIKA!!!!

100% is a little too high. You can't focus entirely on making money. At least 10% should be dedicated to f*cking over the innocent. I mean, you have to have some joy in your life.

And if you can severely wound the whole world's economy, so much the better.

The Name: God forbid taxpayers should have to subsidize such evils as livable wages and quality care for the elderly.


They do. It's called the Veterans Administration. I love my father and therefore would never put him in a VA home.

Why do you think the current administration is not fully enforcing the immigration laws? Illegal immigrants are an end run around the minimum wage laws.

Smeggy Smurf: Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

The job is typically filled by CNAs that aren't good enough to wipe asses in a hospital or have gotten themselves fired from every hospital for misconduct. They shouldn't be working in the medical field in the first place let alone making good money doing it.

Oh, so everything's fine then!

Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

The job is typically filled by CNAs that aren't good enough to wipe asses in a hospital or have gotten themselves fired from every hospital for misconduct. They shouldn't be working in the medical field in the first place let alone making good money doing it.

Marcus Aurelius: If those people are making under $20 an hour, there's something seriously farking wrong with this country.

My dad has been bed bound for over 2 years. He requires two attendants 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I couldn't afford to pay the helpers minimum wage. Instead I pay $140 a day, plus free room and board. The alternative is putting my dad in a nursing home which based upon my experience is not an acceptable due to the mal and mistreatment of the patients.c.

For all you calling for minimum wage, I hope you have saved your money so that you can care for your parents. Unless of course you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill.

Don't let these people have money to put into the economy, whatever you do!