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(Foreign Policy)   John McCain, who is supposed to be campaigning for Mitt Romney, complains that major campaign donor and casino-mogul Sheldon Adelson is feeding Chinese money into the U.S. political system   (thecable.foreignpolicy.com) divider line 84
    More: Amusing, Sheldon Adelson, John McCain, Chinese money, blood donors  
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1153 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jun 2012 at 5:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 06:53:44 PM  
McCain then proceeded to yell at a cloud.
 
2012-06-16 06:59:02 PM  

NewportBarGuy: vygramul: Alas, I can tell you people don't really want that. At least, not any we've managed to come up with. I worked on voter protection issues for the VA Democratic Party for a few elections. VA had two options for voters: an electronic vote and a paper vote that had the paper-trail. One of the things we found was that people preferred the electronic voting by almost 10:1, in a state where the polling was more like 60-40 in favor of paper. People vote with their feet, and they vote for convenience over reliability.

It's a shame, really.

Is electronic voting WITH a paper receipt not an option?


The ideal would be a card that is printed out and the voter takes it and drops it in a box and the box results the re-count canvas. I'm not an expert on all forms, but one we tried was for an election with only two candidates, and it was a two-oval scan-tron-like card that you put through the machine and placed in a locked box yourself. It worked fantastically well - I was impressed. People didn't use it.

I suppose a touchscreen that spits out a card with your selections that you can then place in a locked box could provide a useful alternative. I don't know if someone has tried that specific version yet. But getting a state to try it in light of some of the other spectacular failures is pretty hopeless. People tend to trust their elections - it's other elections they hate. Just like their congressmen.
 
2012-06-16 07:07:31 PM  

Lunaville: So, to clarify, people stated that they preferred paper ballots, but when time to vote they opted for electronic voting? Is that correct? If so, how much choice did they really have? Aren't precincts assigned to a voter? Was both electronic and paper voting offered at every precinct? If it wasn't offered at every precinct and a voter can't opt to vote in a precinct to which he is not assigned, are you sure a preference for electronic voting has really been demonstrated?


You'd walk in the precinct and are given an option of electronic voting or the paper voting. I honestly can't remember if coverage was 100%. But I was in a very liberal part of the state, where some precincts went 80% for Obama. Yet only about 10% used the paper option.
 
2012-06-16 07:12:35 PM  

St_Francis_P: SoundOfOneHandWanking: McCain and integrity in the same sentence? Not this century...

He may not want to remember it either, but he defended Obama during the campaign when a nutjob was running at the mouth.



Yeah, so his record was about 50,000-1 in that respect. Not exactly inspiring.
 
2012-06-16 07:14:22 PM  

KWess: St_Francis_P: SoundOfOneHandWanking: McCain and integrity in the same sentence? Not this century...

He may not want to remember it either, but he defended Obama during the campaign when a nutjob was running at the mouth.


Yeah, so his record was about 50,000-1 in that respect. Not exactly inspiring.


McCain is a strange bird when it comes to integrity. It's like he WANTS to be a good guy, but can't help himself.
 
2012-06-16 07:29:55 PM  

vygramul: Lunaville: So, to clarify, people stated that they preferred paper ballots, but when time to vote they opted for electronic voting? Is that correct? If so, how much choice did they really have? Aren't precincts assigned to a voter? Was both electronic and paper voting offered at every precinct? If it wasn't offered at every precinct and a voter can't opt to vote in a precinct to which he is not assigned, are you sure a preference for electronic voting has really been demonstrated?

You'd walk in the precinct and are given an option of electronic voting or the paper voting. I honestly can't remember if coverage was 100%. But I was in a very liberal part of the state, where some precincts went 80% for Obama. Yet only about 10% used the paper option.


People are weird.
 
2012-06-16 07:44:25 PM  

Lunaville: Cataholic: vygramul: dahmers love zombie: NewportBarGuy: It's Adelson's money. He "earned" it through all the various operations of his company, which is international. That is like saying you can't accept "foreign money" from the CEO of GE because most of their profits come from overseas contracts.

That works for me. Of course, I'm for federal funding of elections (and ONLY federal funding), so I'm probably a socialist commie nazi.

You're not a socialist commie nazi - just impractical. Where do you draw the line? Can I say, "Vote for Obama," on Fark? Can Drew put a "Vote for Romney" banner on Fark? Can Google put one on Google? Can I put one on a domain I own? My facebook page? Can I say it on HAM radio? Can I say it if I'm a guest on Howard Stern's radio show? Can I say it if I'm Howard Stern? Can I say it if I own the radio station? TV station? Fox News?

How's this for an idea? Say whatever you want..run whatever ad you like, so long as you aren't coordinating with the candidate's official campaign.

I believe truth in advertising should be enforced whether it's jelly or a politician being sold. So, I might go for this as long as egregious lies are banned, fined, and called out. So, for instance if a group claimed that an always civilian politician had the endorsement of some veterans' group, rather than endorsing the veteran in the race, when, in fact, that organization actually does not endorse any politician: the ad should be pulled, the group fined heavily, and it should be renounced in all media where the ad appeared. And all of that should happen prior to the election.


1. Who is to be the arbiter of "truth" in this system?

2. Would it apply to the candidates themselves?

As a side note, media outlets already will pull ads that are proven to be false.
 
2012-06-16 07:50:29 PM  

NewportBarGuy:
If they are a f*cking person as Mitt wants them to be, and the law allows them to be, they only get to donate as ONE person.


This.

If corporations are a separate person, they're one person. If they're a collection of people, then those people shouldn't get to donate twice since those of us not in a corporation cannot.
 
2012-06-16 07:52:35 PM  
A Pole, an Italian and a Chinese guy all die and go to Hell. The Devil meets them at the gate of Hell and says "I don't know what you're expecting but let me tell you one thing: in Hell, everybody works. So the first thing I want you to do is take this aptitude test. This will determine your job in Hell." The Devil looks over the test results and says to the Polish guy, "You didn't do too well on this test. I'm putting you to work shoveling coal in a furnace." He says to the Italian, "You didnt do well either, so you shovel coal too." He turns to the Chinese guy and says "You did pretty well on the test. I'm putting you in charge of supplies."

A few weeks later the Devil is back in the area and he decides to check up on the three of them. The Italian and the Pole are both shoveling coal furiously, but the Chinese guy is nowhere to be seen. The Devil asks "What happened to the Chinese guy?" and the Pole and the Italian answer "We don't know. He disappeared right after you left and we haven't seen him since." The Devil is furious and says "When I catch that guy I'm really gonna let him have it!" He starts off down the road to the next furnace. Then, as he's passing a big rock, the Chinese guy suddenly jumps out from behind it and shouts, "Supplies!"
 
2012-06-16 08:11:53 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: You're crazy if you think that foreign companies aren't covering their bets by funding the Democrats too. Also, many multi-national companies, even ones run by Americans with American headquarters, don't view themselves as American and donate money to cover their own interests even when those interests conflict with the national interests. This is true in all countries that allow this sort of political contribution.


The problem here is not a partisan one. Naturally, the big contributors who don't have ideological axes to grind (which is most of them) want to invest in a winner - and the surest way to do that is to bet on both sides - and most big corporate donors do.
 
2012-06-16 08:15:05 PM  
I said this in the red thread, but this is all about McCain losing his campaign finance bill and he's mad he won't be indirectly referred to constantly in elections.

It has nothing to do with integrity.
 
2012-06-16 08:30:13 PM  
Helps reduce the trade deficit.
 
2012-06-16 08:41:14 PM  
Adelson wants the US to invade Iran. And he's willing to put a lot of money into making it happen
 
2012-06-16 08:51:37 PM  
See what happens when we outsource our gambling industry!
 
2012-06-16 09:05:20 PM  
that's Communist Chinese money. sometimes, McStain gets lucky and says something useful.


cleared it up for 'ya.
 
2012-06-16 09:55:01 PM  
So, religious fundamentalists from the Mid-East and the Communist Chinese are influencing our Government? Henry Kissinger will be pissed off when he hears about this.
 
2012-06-16 10:06:04 PM  
SCOTUS said it's fine for corporations to spend as much as they please on politicians. If China just happens to own some of those corporations, I guess that's legal too.

/was a nice country we had once.
 
2012-06-16 10:30:11 PM  
 
2012-06-16 10:38:46 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: You're crazy if you think that foreign companies aren't covering their bets by funding the Democrats too.


I'm not even going to ask you for a citation, because I think this is probably true. However...it's also a bad thing.
 
2012-06-16 10:48:49 PM  
I'm shocked that the system that the conservative fought tooth and nail for so that people could have a say in the US political system is just a sham to allow the Chinese to purchase our president for them.

Shocked. SHOCKED!!

US! US! We rule!

I feel like buying a beat up pickup truck just so I can fly two American flags off the back of it to prove to people what a patriot I am.
 
2012-06-16 11:02:41 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: You're crazy if you think that foreign companies aren't covering their bets by funding the Democrats too. Also, many multi-national companies, even ones run by Americans with American headquarters, don't view themselves as American and donate money to cover their own interests even when those interests conflict with the national interests. This is true in all countries that allow this sort of political contribution.


really? which ones and why?
 
2012-06-16 11:52:30 PM  
Too mavericky?
 
2012-06-17 01:03:15 AM  

Hobodeluxe: If you want a war with Iran then vote Romney.


From that link: "He planned to stop at a Wawa gas station and convenience store in Quakertown, but scratched the event when protesters and former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a Democrat, showed up to denounce his economic plans."

Good grief, what's he going to do if he somehow gets elected, barricade himself in the Situation Room to avoid exposure to people who disagree with him?
 
2012-06-17 01:39:36 AM  
Sheldon Adelson should be kicked out of the country.

/Good job, McCain.
 
2012-06-17 03:26:02 AM  
Mitt Romney. Not good enough to be McCain's VP.
 
2012-06-17 08:28:25 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: This is true in all countries that allow this sort of political contribution.


And how many countries is that?
 
2012-06-17 12:19:51 PM  

vygramul: The ideal would be a card that is printed out and the voter takes it and drops it in a box and the box results the re-count canvas. I'm not an expert on all forms, but one we tried was for an election with only two candidates, and it was a two-oval scan-tron-like card that you put through the machine and placed in a locked box yourself. It worked fantastically well - I was impressed. People didn't use it.


Sounds similar to the "ink blot" voting we use in my district, actually. The ballot is a big Scantron-type form that you slot into a laminated booklet. The booklet is designed so that, on any given page, only the column of the form that corresponds to that page's questions is exposed, and arrows point from each choice to the corresponding bubble. You use a special stamp to fill in the circles, then you remove the ballot from the booklet, leave the booth, and feed it into the machine. The machine scans the form, and then drops it into an attached lockbox. We've been using it for years, and it's pretty reliable.
 
2012-06-17 01:17:46 PM  
Well McCain did endorse BHO in the last election.

//yeah, yeah I know but it's not like he was really trying to win
 
2012-06-17 04:58:11 PM  

NewportBarGuy: vygramul: Alas, I can tell you people don't really want that. At least, not any we've managed to come up with. I worked on voter protection issues for the VA Democratic Party for a few elections. VA had two options for voters: an electronic vote and a paper vote that had the paper-trail. One of the things we found was that people preferred the electronic voting by almost 10:1, in a state where the polling was more like 60-40 in favor of paper. People vote with their feet, and they vote for convenience over reliability.

It's a shame, really.

Is electronic voting WITH a paper receipt not an option?


This. There's nothing wrong with electronic voting per se. It's that Diebold's system lacks non-repudiation that makes it outrageously unacceptable.

Local elections here are done with a Scantron-like device. All the convenience of electronic tallying with the accountability of a signed paper receipt. I think it's great and look forward to the day when we can confidently eliminate paper from the process.
 
2012-06-18 01:37:26 AM  
Arizona:

Do not elect this man again. I mean it.
 
2012-06-18 01:54:03 AM  
So Mitt is taking money from Communists. Does that make Mitt a communist?
 
2012-06-18 01:58:52 AM  

cptjeff: Milo1974: I just want to point out that Adelson is against online poker, which makes him a hypocrite douche like Rmoney, who declared himself against online poker while being interviewed inside a Las Vegas casino.
This was a job/hobby of mine before Black Friday last year. Just another reason to not vote Republican. I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson, the only (former) Republican who made sense when allowed on the debates.

Adelson is against online poker because it directly hurts his business interests. That's just buying votes in your own self interest.


R0mney is available to the highest bidder.
 
2012-06-18 02:39:31 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: JasonOfOrillia: You're crazy if you think that foreign companies aren't covering their bets by funding the Democrats too.

So, vote republican?

Also, citation needed.


Yes please.
 
2012-06-18 08:00:48 PM  
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/10/senators-pocketing-money-from- foreign-connected-pacs.html

I was originally thinking of the whole Clinton/Lincoln bedroom thing and extrapolated to today. I think the more important idea is that there are companies that put profits ahead of any social responsibility regardless of their national origin. Wholly American owned companies behave like you would expect a Chinese company to behave. And that's fine but when those companies engage in regulatory, or perhaps legislative, capture it becomes a problem.

Anyway, if you feel that companies should be held to account you might consider voting Democrat for a marginal benefit. Independent would be a more pure choice but only because Independents aren't powerful enough to attract the big bucks.
 
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