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(USA Today)   If you don't have front office/talent in place already, Phil Jackson doesn't want to come in and take credit for everything   (usatoday.com) divider line 40
    More: Obvious, Knicks, Mike Woodson, Real Sports, Amar'e Stoudemire, old saying, knee replacements, NBA champions, front office  
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1206 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Jun 2012 at 4:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 04:50:12 PM  
as a former Knicks fan (before I stopped watching the NBA with any regularity altogether), phark you, Phil
 
2012-06-16 04:57:30 PM  
Oh the Linsanity...

www.sparkingdawn.com
 
2012-06-16 05:04:41 PM  
I like Phil Jackson, but that quote just gave his detractors some pretty good ammo. Guess he can't coach a teach without top 20 of all time talent.
 
2012-06-16 05:33:24 PM  
Good for him.
 
2012-06-16 05:38:36 PM  
Phil "Front Runner" Jackson.
 
2012-06-16 05:39:38 PM  
Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.
 
2012-06-16 05:44:54 PM  

TheJoe03: I like Phil Jackson, but that quote just gave his detractors some pretty good ammo. Guess he can't coach a teach without top 20 of all time talent.


His health is always going to be an issue from here on out. When he's coaching these days, it's painful for him to go to work and do his job. He gets a free pass this time. He can pick and choose his job all he likes.
 
2012-06-16 05:50:44 PM  

Evilsmurf: Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.


Bingo

The level of on court talent is about the same over all in the league. The differences are caused/facilitated by the front office talent. LBJ could not have moved from one team to the other without management approval from both teams. Players don't get to choose who drafts them or who they get traded for. And at the same time, if the front office is lacking in the ability to assess a player or unwilling to pay for a free agent then these qualities of FO management will show up on the floor. The same group of teams are at the top because the FO can make the player personnel decisions to keep them there. The coach can affect the attitude, discipline and desire of the team on the floor, but not even Phil Jackson can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And some players might have talent but don't play well with others (see Randy Moss, TO, Rickey Watters, Eric Lindros)
 
2012-06-16 05:54:42 PM  

Evilsmurf: Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.


Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.
 
2012-06-16 05:56:41 PM  
wonder where he'd go.
The Heat have talent, but he and Riley don't get along, so that's probably out.
The Nets maybe, but only if they keep Williams and land Dwight Howard.
Be funny if he somehow decided on the Clippers. He could possibly do a lot with Blake Griffen and Chris Paul.
Maybe Minnesota?
 
2012-06-16 05:57:50 PM  

hbk72777: Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.


not really. Those guys were good players before Jackson arrived, but didn't win a damn thing until after he'd started coaching them.
 
2012-06-16 06:02:12 PM  

SilentStrider: hbk72777: Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.

not really. Those guys were good players before Jackson arrived, but didn't win a damn thing until after he'd started coaching them.


See, to me , Pat Riley taking the Knicks within a basket of winning it all is great coaching. They were a very very good team, but not great.
 
2012-06-16 06:23:48 PM  

TheJoe03: I like Phil Jackson, but that quote just gave his detractors some pretty good ammo. Guess he can't coach a teach without top 20 of all time talent.


The 1984 Albany Patroons thank you for the compliment.
 
2012-06-16 06:41:01 PM  

SilentStrider: hbk72777: Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.

not really. Those guys were good players before Jackson arrived, but didn't win a damn thing until after he'd started coaching them.


This. I never understood the criticism Phil gets for winning w/ talent. Name any other coach outside of Larry Brown who's won a title w/o a superstar player.
 
2012-06-16 06:55:52 PM  

teto85: The level of on court talent is about the same over all in the league


You can't possibly follow the NBA and actually believe this.
 
2012-06-16 07:09:46 PM  
cdn.bleacherreport.net
Jerry Krause wasn't talented nor gifted with insight. He was a very lucky man. Jerry didn't pick Jordan, and he held it against him for years. Jordan messed up his perfect dream by being around, that, and Jordan named Jerry, Crumbs.
 
2012-06-16 07:18:16 PM  
Insiders are saying that Phil really wanted the Knicks job but there was no way that Dolan was going to hire him, so he is backing off by doing this.

Link
 
2012-06-16 07:32:15 PM  
Protip: If you are of advanced age, have all the money you could ever want & are perhaps the greatest at your profession to ever live, you get to pick your job, if you even want one at this point.
 
2012-06-16 07:54:28 PM  

hbk72777: Evilsmurf: Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.

Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.


Nope, you sure couldn't have. Look at Erik Spoelstra. He has the best player on the face of the planet playing for him, a another top 10 guy, and a top 20 guy, and he may very well not win the championship for the second year in a row. You have to know how to manage situations and match ups in the NBA. Phil Jackson is a hell of a basketball coach.

And nobody says Red Auerbach could only coach great players. Look at those Celtic teams of the 60s. It wasn't with pluck, cunning and guile they won, they had some of the greatest players to even think about playing basketball on those teams.
 
2012-06-16 08:27:21 PM  

mitchcumstein1: Look at Erik Spoelstra. He has the best player on the face of the planet playing for him, a another top 10 guy, and a top 20 guy


Wade isn't top 10 anymore, and Bosh isn't top 20. It's probably top 20 for Wade and top 30 for Bosh, however.
 
2012-06-16 08:37:20 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: mitchcumstein1: Look at Erik Spoelstra. He has the best player on the face of the planet playing for him, a another top 10 guy, and a top 20 guy

Wade isn't top 10 anymore, and Bosh isn't top 20. It's probably top 20 for Wade and top 30 for Bosh, however.


Dumbass, he was talking about Mario Chalmers, and Mario Chalmers Shooting Left-Handed.
 
2012-06-16 08:59:25 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: mitchcumstein1: Look at Erik Spoelstra. He has the best player on the face of the planet playing for him, a another top 10 guy, and a top 20 guy

Wade isn't top 10 anymore, and Bosh isn't top 20. It's probably top 20 for Wade and top 30 for Bosh, however.


I still think when healthy, which he's not right now, Wade is a top 10 player, or capable of being one. And Bosh is a multiple time all-star, who is most definitely a top 20 offensive player.

Point being, they have very 3 very good players, certainly as good a big 3 as those Laker teams had, maybe not quite as good as those Bulls teams, but close. It's not all about the talent, you have to have somebody to manage it and put it in the right situations. I would say that most people would agree that the Heat are very rarely in those positions, especially in the 4th quarter, when it becomes the stand and watch LeBron and Wade dribble show.
 
2012-06-16 09:25:20 PM  
Kobe is so much better than LeBron running an offense.
 
2012-06-16 11:20:41 PM  
As a Celtics fan I can't possibly be objective about this. But, yeah...f*ck that guy.
 
2012-06-16 11:20:45 PM  

hbk72777: Evilsmurf: Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.

Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.


NUH-UH! Triangle offense...bs bs bs....Gets everyone to work together...bs bs bs....Brilliant strategies.....bs bs bs.

/In case you missed the sarcasm, I completely agree with you
 
2012-06-16 11:24:20 PM  
Coaching a team like the Knicks would have been a perfect chance for Phil Jackson to prove people like me wrong. They are not the most talented team in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but they have plenty of it.

If Jackson really is the "genius" that people say he is, he could have easily taken that group at least to the Finals. As it stands, I'll continue to consider him one of the most overrated coaches of all time.

/Bring it on Phil Jackson supporters
 
2012-06-16 11:48:21 PM  

Nickster79: Coaching a team like the Knicks would have been a perfect chance for Phil Jackson to prove people like me wrong. They are not the most talented team in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but they have plenty of it.

If Jackson really is the "genius" that people say he is, he could have easily taken that group at least to the Finals. As it stands, I'll continue to consider him one of the most overrated coaches of all time.

/Bring it on Phil Jackson supporters


How does one win 11 titles and be overrated?
 
2012-06-17 12:02:22 AM  

pjlawrence81: How does one win 11 titles and be overrated?


I think even bevets could win one with Jordan in his prime.
 
2012-06-17 12:05:57 AM  

12349876: I think even bevets could win one with Jordan in his prime.


Jordan led some solid teams to the Bull titles. Probably the only NBA player who won games by himself was Wilt Chamberlain.
 
2012-06-17 12:21:04 AM  

pjlawrence81:
How does one win 11 titles and be overrated?


People always seem to think overrated = not good. This is simply not the case. Overrated means be analyzed as better as they actually are. Someone who is the best at something can be overrated, if they are seen as being able to take a less talented team to win. This is as Phil Jackson is considered overrated.

Here is an example: Michael Jordan is often referred to as the greatest basketball player of all time*. However, if he is treated by ESPN, SI, FoxSports, etc that he could take a high school basketball team to win the NBA Title, he is by definition "overrated". Now, am I saying that Jordan isn't the best player of all time*? No. Am I saying he is overrated in this example? Yes.

OVERRATED =/= NOT GOOD

*Yes, I understand some do not agree with this point. It is for the sake of argument. If you disagree, fill in the blank for the player
 
2012-06-17 12:42:25 AM  
He has 11 rings. He can say whatever the fark he wants about basketball and you'd be wise to listen.
 
2012-06-17 01:11:03 AM  
well he's 70. I don't blame him for not wanting to sign on to a project
 
2012-06-17 01:15:34 AM  

Nickster79: Coaching a team like the Knicks would have been a perfect chance for Phil Jackson to prove people like me wrong. They are not the most talented team in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but they have plenty of it.

If Jackson really is the "genius" that people say he is, he could have easily taken that group at least to the Finals. As it stands, I'll continue to consider him one of the most overrated coaches of all time.

/Bring it on Phil Jackson supporters


Carmelo is anathema to the triangle, Bibby and Davis are geriatric, Lin isn't that good, Landry Fields... next, JR Smith has made a career of unfulfilled potential, Amar'e is the most overrated player in the league year in and year out, etc. The only player worth a damn on that roster is Tyson Chandler, and he's a square peg in a round hole with the philosophy the roster was built on.

The point is no one would want to even try to turn around that team. It's awful. It needs to be blown up.
 
2012-06-17 01:22:16 AM  

tooeasy: well he's 70. I don't blame him for not wanting to sign on to a project


Why not enjoy his retirement? His health will not stand the rigors of the NBA season. Personally, I would rather see him as a TV analyst.
 
2012-06-17 01:27:04 AM  

Harry_Seldon: tooeasy: well he's 70. I don't blame him for not wanting to sign on to a project

Why not enjoy his retirement? His health will not stand the rigors of the NBA season. Personally, I would rather see him as a TV analyst.


that'd work, though even broadcasting has its rigors (which is why bill walton retired)
 
2012-06-17 02:48:09 AM  

Nickster79: Coaching a team like the Knicks would have been a perfect chance for Phil Jackson to prove people like me wrong. They are not the most talented team in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but they have plenty of it.

If Jackson really is the "genius" that people say he is, he could have easily taken that group at least to the Finals. As it stands, I'll continue to consider him one of the most overrated coaches of all time.

/Bring it on Phil Jackson supporters


The point he was making is that the Knicks' talented players don't fit well together. And he's right.
 
2012-06-17 03:19:59 AM  

tooeasy: (which is why bill walton retired)


Thank goodness
 
2012-06-17 08:33:05 AM  
I think you all are missing the point. The Knicks strategy, like most New York teams, is to throw money at high ranking players and hope they join without asking too many questions. The strategy works with a team like the Yankees, not so much with teams like the Mets, Rangers, or Knicks.

Oh, hey look, LeBron. We got lots of money! Forget that we have less of a team structure than your Cavs, but so what?
Hey, where you going?

I'm sorry, Knicks fans. You just try too hard.
 
2012-06-17 05:11:47 PM  

hbk72777: Evilsmurf: Phil can turn a good team into a great team, but he can't make chicken salad out of chicken shiat.

Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq were just good? shiat, I could've bought a suit and stood on the sidelines and won it all.


Take Larry Brown and let him coach those Bulls teams, then take Phil Jackson and have him coach the '04 Pistons.

Then let the fun begin.
 
2012-06-17 05:14:44 PM  

rjakobi: I think you all are missing the point. The Knicks strategy, like most New York teams, is to throw money at high ranking players and hope they join without asking too many questions. The strategy works with a team like the Yankees, not so much with teams like the Mets, Rangers, or Knicks.

Oh, hey look, LeBron. We got lots of money! Forget that we have less of a team structure than your Cavs, but so what?
Hey, where you going?

I'm sorry, Knicks fans. You just try too hard.


I'll give the complete blame on that to Jim Dolan; an egotistical slob that makes Donald Sterling look like Dr. Jerry Buss.
 
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