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(BBC)   French Muslim Communist Holocaust denier dies. Personally, I think the claims that he died are exaggerated, if not completely made up   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Followup, Holocaust deniers, French philosopher, French Resistance  
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3710 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2012 at 5:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-17 12:09:25 AM
thisisarepeat
They can ALL make noise, but only the U.S. can deliver Hell to NATO's enemies. The rest are pathetic at best, inconsequential at medium, and annoying at worst.

And Iraq was NATO's enemy...how?
 
2012-06-17 12:12:38 AM
Communism has never been achieved anywhere. Stops just before the finale of freedom to descend into authoritarian madness. Lenin's vision may have had a real chance had the thug stalin(coward) not usurped from able minds and conscience and not murdered Trotsky and hijacked what may have been. At this point to call yourself a communist makes as much sense as trying to revise history. It is a denial of reality for no real gain.
 
2012-06-17 12:20:52 AM
'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.
 
2012-06-17 12:21:23 AM

jake_lex: Hopefully, there are 6 million people now getting a chance to kick his ass before he gets tossed into Hell.


Maybe the 6 million will get that chance after he gets tossed into hell. After all, they didn't have the right set of beliefs.
 
2012-06-17 12:41:13 AM
So this guy is essentially a no-talent, evil Cat Stevens?

/Good riddance.
 
2012-06-17 12:52:25 AM

Vampire_Blues: Am I the only one who thinks it is messed up that you can actually be sentenced to prison for Holocaust Denial?

I mean are you serious? How are nutjobs denying the Holocaust such a large threat to warrant their incarceration? This is essentially punishing someone for Thoughtcrime.

/And people say the US has problems with civil liberties.


No, you are not the only one. Rather than strengthening the case for the Holocaust, if anything it weakens it in some small way by lending support for the case of deniers, who can point to that as evidence that the 'truth' is being suppressed. If opinions about historical events contrary to popularly accepted opinions are proscribed by law, what else can any thinking person suspect? Imagine if there were laws criminalizing any statements that contradicted an official government position on the Vietnam War, or the role of the US government in the Indian wars, etc. Why not? If the USA ever goes that route it will be the final nail in the coffin.
 
2012-06-17 12:58:12 AM

Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.


And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.
 
2012-06-17 01:20:51 AM

Repo Man: Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.

And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.


Show me a link that there is definitive proof of gas chambers. Not eyewitness acounts. Eyewitness accounts, even from SS vets describing 'gas chambers' whithin Germany, have been disproved.

I'll pay you five internet dollars if you can prove to me, beyond any shadow of a dought, that gas was used to systematically kill gods chosen.
 
2012-06-17 01:43:09 AM

Tyranicle: Repo Man: Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.

And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.

Show me a link that there is definitive proof of gas chambers. Not eyewitness acounts. Eyewitness accounts, even from SS vets describing 'gas chambers' whithin Germany, have been disproved.

I'll pay you five internet dollars if you can prove to me, beyond any shadow of a dought, that gas was used to systematically kill gods chosen.


Why would I try to prove anything to you? First off, the burden of proof is on you to disprove the mainstream view, not me to prove it to you. Second, truthers, birthers, people who don't believe in the moon landing - none of them are worth any serious debate. "If someone maintains that the moon is made out of green cheese, you don't argue with them - you feel sorry for them." - Bertrand Russell
 
2012-06-17 01:51:42 AM
They should've used his full title of "Short, hispanic, hindu, French-speaking, physically handicapped, communist, gay, black, woman." That way he'd hopelessly be in the minority.

/obscure?
 
2012-06-17 01:54:33 AM

Repo Man: Tyranicle: Repo Man: Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.

And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.

Show me a link that there is definitive proof of gas chambers. Not eyewitness acounts. Eyewitness accounts, even from SS vets describing 'gas chambers' whithin Germany, have been disproved.

I'll pay you five internet dollars if you can prove to me, beyond any shadow of a dought, that gas was used to systematically kill gods chosen.

Why would I try to prove anything to you? First off, the burden of proof is on you to disprove the mainstream view, not me to prove it to you. Second, truthers, birthers, people who don't believe in the moon landing - none of them are worth any serious debate. "If someone maintains that the moon is made out of green cheese, you don't argue with them - you feel sorry for them." - Bertrand Russell


"a crime scene has nothing to do with a moon made of cheese"- anonomous
 
2012-06-17 01:55:56 AM

wumpus: Communism has never been achieved anywhere. Stops just before the finale of freedom to descend into authoritarian madness. Lenin's vision may have had a real chance had the thug stalin(coward) not usurped from able minds and conscience and not murdered Trotsky and hijacked what may have been. At this point to call yourself a communist makes as much sense as trying to revise history. It is a denial of reality for no real gain.


Shaddap you right-wing McCarthyite, the fact is that apart from the Gulags and subjugation of neighbouring countries and economic stagnation and the famines and the third-world proxy wars and the 80 million innocent victims, Communism for the most part worked out just fine. And we're going to get it exactly right the next time, we promise.
 
2012-06-17 02:23:13 AM
"He was given a suspended jail sentence for Holocaust denial in 1998."

No free speech? This feels like a human rights violation. I guess when WWII hits as close home as it did with France you don't take kindly to people denying the atrocities.
 
2012-06-17 03:03:31 AM

Tyranicle: Repo Man: Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.

And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.

Show me a link that there is definitive proof of gas chambers. Not eyewitness acounts. Eyewitness accounts, even from SS vets describing 'gas chambers' whithin Germany, have been disproved.

I'll pay you five internet dollars if you can prove to me, beyond any shadow of a dought, that gas was used to systematically kill gods chosen.


I love the "gods chosen" remark, you can just feel the anti-semitism drooling out from this nut.
 
2012-06-17 03:23:20 AM
Communist, Holocaust Denier, Muslim, French: That guy combined enough traits for four pricks, yet he hogged all the traits for himself to turn into Super-Prick. Roast in Piece.
 
2012-06-17 03:50:21 AM

KiplingKat872: proteus_b: KiplingKat872: And while the Viscey (sic) government collaborated, the French also had a strong resistance movement.

While perfect spelling isn't always an indicator of intellect or education, and the converse, I do have to say that your credibility as an expert on WWII is indeed compromised if you're unable to spell "Vichy". It indicates that you have never read a book on the subject.

/but your point is more or less correct---things are more complicated than "the Froggies are a bunch of surrender monkeys!"

Next time just correct my spelling instead of launching an uneccessary ad hominem when you can't refute my facts.

That was a total dick move.


No, he really did have to write it that way. I mean, when you're so insecure about your intellect that you have to "prove" how smart you are to a bunch of anonymous people on the internet, you have to do it. Especially if you can be a dick about it.
 
2012-06-17 05:21:27 AM

Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.


I have.

There is a mountain of Nazi documentation, forensic and eye witness evidence from both fronts, that proves the Nazi systematically murdered millions of people including Jews, Gyspies, Communists, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others.

The Holocaust Deniers "proof" boils down to, "This single inventory reciept for coke isn't enough to burn millions of bodies."

You lose.
 
2012-06-17 05:24:21 AM

Tyranicle: Repo Man: Tyranicle: 'Holocaust denial' is, in reallity, denial to believe nazis sent jews to die in gas chambers. Despite what we've been brainwashed since childhood, there is no definitive proof of gas chambers ever existing whithin concentration camps. 'Gas chamber' aka 'holocaust' (death by fire in hebrew), is mostly Soviet propaganda that is still uttered everywhere.

I would highly suggest doing the research yourself in case it becomes illegal to do so due to 'hate speech' or 'anti-semitism'.

And here it is, the most loathsome conspiracy theory of them all. You are a sick person.

Show me a link that there is definitive proof of gas chambers. Not eyewitness acounts. Eyewitness accounts, even from SS vets describing 'gas chambers' whithin Germany, have been disproved.

I'll pay you five internet dollars if you can prove to me, beyond any shadow of a dought, that gas was used to systematically kill gods chosen.


There are a couple surviving gas chambers, as well as blue prints of some of the ones the Nazis destoyed to try to cover their tracks. I'm on my mobile but anyone can google this.
 
2012-06-17 05:27:25 AM

Vampire_Blues: KiplingKat872: I looked it up. Holocaust denial is part of the package deal banning Nazism in countries where it flourished like Germany and Austria. The Holocaust denial movement began with a couple former SS officers, and in Europe it seems to be usually entwined with neo-nazi groups.

It's not free speech, and igniring the movement has allowed the lies to flourish. Those lies need to be disapproven openly, but I understand their rationale of banning it.

Should we lock up all liars? I mean I understand that this is tied to Nazism, a horrible ideology, but we get into a real slippery slope here. Do we start arresting people who say that Pinochet did good things in Chile? Do we arrest folks who deny the existence of the Goulag? The Internment of Japanese Citizens? That there were WMDs in Iraq?

I would disagree with you and say that making Holocaust Denial illegal encourages perpetuation of the lies. Having something this taboo is a Conspiracy Theorist's wet dream. And censorship of ideas has no place in a free society.


No, I'm with you on that. I'm just saying I understand their rationale, not that I condone it.
 
2012-06-17 05:33:54 AM

thisisarepeat: KiplingKat872: thisisarepeat: Gawdzila: thisisarepeat: my sister still returns merchandise if after she gets it home she discovers a little gold "Made in France" sticker on the inside of the packaging.

LOL, that's really stupid.
Does she still call french fries "freedom fries", too?

LOL, no she does not, she just remembers her baby brother going to war or "WHAR" as you trivialize it, and remembers the French undermining them in ANY capacity what so ever. Beside that fact, its not difficult for her because the French produce nothing an American needs, including plastic cookie sheets. The French are worthless as a nation. Worthless. As evidenced by every single NATO action ever exercised, but then you could say that about any nation in NATO except the U.S. They can ALL make noise, but only the U.S. can deliver Hell to NATO's enemies. The rest are pathetic at best, inconsequential at medium, and annoying at worst.

How excactly did the French undermine America in "anyway?" Or are you someone that believes that someone who disagrees with you is "betrayal" and "undermining?"

And to make it clear, the French, and many other nations, were right. We should have never invaded Iraq. All we did was replay what the British did there in the first half of the 20th century.

Which is probably the real reason why you're so pissed off at them.

That, and the fact they have far superior nucular energy program better education, hundreds of years of culture, fantastic art, great food, awesome wine...

Oh, and the Enlightenment. Those little documents like the Declaration of Independance and the Constituion would not exist, we would not exist, without the French leading the way is logic, science, and democratic ideals.

Not to mention their assistance in the Revolutionary War.

So yeah, they do produce things America needs. (If a bunch of Americans could stop being a bunch of arrogant xenophobes.)

Settle down Pierre, the only reason the occupying Nazi's didn't fark with the American flag that flies over the grave of Lafayette is that they knew there was an exception to Frenchness beneath it. Not that they had any respect what so ever for the flag its self. Or the French for that matter.


That is the second request to prove your assertions by pointing to specific examples that you have ignored.

You got nothin'.
 
2012-06-17 07:56:09 AM
Good riddance.
 
2012-06-17 08:56:55 AM
That mans life reads like instructions on how to be an absolute asshole.
 
2012-06-17 09:26:05 AM
reading this thread, and some people's attitudes towards the french just amazes me at: 1. how much people hate the french because they refused to join your silly expedition into Iraq; 2. how this hate/dislike/disgust/etc, which first started out as a stupid meme, has now morphed into a genuine prejudice; 3. how well people can cherry pick their historical data to suit their prejudices.

Why do American conservatives hate the French so much? It can't just be because of Iraq because, as other people have noted, the Germans and Canadians also passed on that wonderful little opportunity, and they didn't get the hate. Is it because they have a major political party called the socialists, and they enact laws that are vaguely pro-worker?

I just don't get it.
 
2012-06-17 09:51:03 AM

ansius: reading this thread, and some people's attitudes towards the french just amazes me at: 1. how much people hate the french because they refused to join your silly expedition into Iraq; 2. how this hate/dislike/disgust/etc, which first started out as a stupid meme, has now morphed into a genuine prejudice; 3. how well people can cherry pick their historical data to suit their prejudices.

Why do American conservatives hate the French so much? It can't just be because of Iraq because, as other people have noted, the Germans and Canadians also passed on that wonderful little opportunity, and they didn't get the hate. Is it because they have a major political party called the socialists, and they enact laws that are vaguely pro-worker?

I just don't get it.


The US saved their asses during the first and second World Wars of the 20th Century, and they repaid us by refusing to participate in NATO when the prospect of a third World War was staring us all in the face. They also farked up decolonization post-WWII, which led to debacles like the Vietnam War (granted, that one was as much our fault as theirs, but they didn't exactly do us any favors).

The problem isn't that the French are hostile to us; it's that they insist on behaving like a superpower when they've long since ceased to be one. It's that pretentiousness, coupled with a lack of gratitude for keeping them from speaking German, that annoys us.
 
2012-06-17 10:21:19 AM

Mouser: ansius: reading this thread, and some people's attitudes towards the french just amazes me at: 1. how much people hate the french because they refused to join your silly expedition into Iraq; 2. how this hate/dislike/disgust/etc, which first started out as a stupid meme, has now morphed into a genuine prejudice; 3. how well people can cherry pick their historical data to suit their prejudices.

Why do American conservatives hate the French so much? It can't just be because of Iraq because, as other people have noted, the Germans and Canadians also passed on that wonderful little opportunity, and they didn't get the hate. Is it because they have a major political party called the socialists, and they enact laws that are vaguely pro-worker?

I just don't get it.

The US saved their asses during the first and second World Wars of the 20th Century, and they repaid us by refusing to participate in NATO when the prospect of a third World War was staring us all in the face. They also farked up decolonization post-WWII, which led to debacles like the Vietnam War (granted, that one was as much our fault as theirs, but they didn't exactly do us any favors).

The problem isn't that the French are hostile to us; it's that they insist on behaving like a superpower when they've long since ceased to be one. It's that pretentiousness, coupled with a lack of gratitude for keeping them from speaking German, that annoys us.


Hold it. The Americans tipped the balance, but only after we were attacked by Japan. Until that moment, the pleas of Europe had fallen on the deaf, isolationist ears of the U.S.. We did not give a damn until we were yanked in.

If any one country can be said to have "saved Europe" it was the Russians. If the Eastern Front had collapsed and Germany thrown all its weight to the West, the Allies would have been screwed. There were also all the resistance movements, which did much to bog down German occupations and advances and slip much needed intel to the Allies. As well as the nations involved in active combat.

My Great Uncle, one of the first Army Rangers, died in the Dieppe Raid, and I honor the contributions of American servicemen and women in WWII. But I am tried of this idea that Europe was cowaring in fear, waiting for us to ride over the hill like the cavalry in a cowboy movie, ergo they owe us. That's B.S.. If they owe us, we owe them for standing in Hitler's way until we finally decided to get involved.
In Europe we tipped the balance, but it was a team effort. The Pacific is where we won the war.

And if a country was smart enough to stay out of the 50 year Mexican stand off we had with the USSR, good for them. And if they farked up Vietnam, what does that say about us for following immediately in their footsteps, with as much sucess? About the same thing it says about us for following in Britains steps in Iraq.
 
2012-06-17 12:12:25 PM

KiplingKat872: Hold it. The Americans tipped the balance, but only after we were attacked by Japan. Until that moment, the pleas of Europe had fallen on the deaf, isolationist ears of the U.S.. We did not give a damn until we were yanked in.


And even then, the US was just going to declare war on Japan until Germany declared war on us first.
 
2012-06-17 12:33:15 PM

Satanic_Hamster: KiplingKat872: Hold it. The Americans tipped the balance, but only after we were attacked by Japan. Until that moment, the pleas of Europe had fallen on the deaf, isolationist ears of the U.S.. We did not give a damn until we were yanked in.

And even then, the US was just going to declare war on Japan until Germany declared war on us first.


Well, as far as Congress was concerned, yes. But FDR (who was one of the few in government pushing for U.S. involvement) was banking that Hitler would do that. That's one of the reasons Europe took priority at first.
 
2012-06-17 06:44:28 PM

Mouser: ansius: reading this thread, and some people's attitudes towards the french just amazes me at: 1. how much people hate the french because they refused to join your silly expedition into Iraq; 2. how this hate/dislike/disgust/etc, which first started out as a stupid meme, has now morphed into a genuine prejudice; 3. how well people can cherry pick their historical data to suit their prejudices.

Why do American conservatives hate the French so much? It can't just be because of Iraq because, as other people have noted, the Germans and Canadians also passed on that wonderful little opportunity, and they didn't get the hate. Is it because they have a major political party called the socialists, and they enact laws that are vaguely pro-worker?

I just don't get it.

The US saved their asses during the first and second World Wars of the 20th Century, and they repaid us by refusing to participate in NATO when the prospect of a third World War was staring us all in the face. They also farked up decolonization post-WWII, which led to debacles like the Vietnam War (granted, that one was as much our fault as theirs, but they didn't exactly do us any favors).

The problem isn't that the French are hostile to us; it's that they insist on behaving like a superpower when they've long since ceased to be one. It's that pretentiousness, coupled with a lack of gratitude for keeping them from speaking German, that annoys us.


Wow, what a dummy spit.

By the way, I'm yet to meet a Frenchman who isn't thankful for the help the Allies gave in liberating France. They at least show that attitude in spades to the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, etc that formed the non-European parts of the Alliance. And have you ever been to an armistice day event in France and seen how they explicitly and formally thank the various nations of the Allies for this?

Perhaps it's because France refuses to become another client state of the USA? And perhaps the conservatives, who have drunk deeply from the Kool-aid of American exceptionalism and power, do not like this.
 
2012-06-18 10:24:50 AM

thisisarepeat: French Philosophy?

Chapter 1: Talk shiat

Chapter 2: Run

Chapter 3: Collaborate

Chapter 4: ?

Chapter 5: Maintain Texas levels of irrational pride


Chapter 4: Rescue US from certain economic collapse.
 
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