"Being a mother isn't really work"

TIWLAB

robrr2003: "Being a mother isn't really work"

[250 comments of liberals calling it bunk]

TIWLAB

TIWCAB

sendtodave: Premise: "Feminism" cannot have any real meaning if it is totally subjective; it needs an objective measure.

OK, makes sense so far.

Clarification: And that measure is purely financial.

Oh, I see. Go fark yourself.

Maybe an economic system that distills rights and responsibilities down to an individual and non-combinational nuclear family is not what really makes people happy. Making women a full partner in a bad system may not make that system any better, but only decrease the happiness of women in a different way.

Dr. Mojo PhD: THE POINT OF FEMINISM IS THAT EVERY RIGHT WHICH A MAN ENJOYS, SO TO WILL A WOMAN. WHETHER SHE CHOOSES TO EXERCISE IT OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT. THE POINT OF FEMINISM IS THAT SHE CAN, NOT THAT SHE MUST; BUT THOU MUST WERE THE WORDS THAT CLOSED OFF AVENUES TO HER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Brilliant.

Farking brilliant.

Gyrfalcon: Linux_Yes: and its not work 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

You have obviously never been woken up at 2 a.m. by a sick kid who really wants mommy RIGHT NOW.


got ya! by saying "its not work 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week" i'm implying that it is. damn, i'm good! (:

I don't see how TFA's wrong.

Yes, there is a time when you have to be a stay at home parent. But once the kids are at school for the majority of the working day, that "stay at home" does absolutely dick-all. 14% difference between time spent with the kids sounds about right.

My mother had the fortune to be able to be a "stay at home mom", as my father was a civil servant earning a middle class wage. That seemed to mean that when we went to school, she went out with friends or watched TV all day, maybe did a few chores of a 20 minute duration, such as vacuum. Maybe the next day she'd clean the bathroom. Scrub the kitchen floor the next day. Nothing strenuous. Of course once we got old enough "to learn some responsibility", the chores, including making meals, was spread out so everyone got to do something. And she did even less. And less. And less.

There's a bunch of reasons I don't watch television. But even if I had the time to do it now and most of those other reasons went away, I wouldn't. Every time I look at a television, I get an image of my mother, getting more and more fat, snacking on crap and staring at the tube, watching everyone around the house do what little cleaning needed to be done, being a "stay at home mom".

Dear Democrats,

I urge you to use this article as your rallying cry!

Sincerely,

cabby

I never found it to be that much work, and I have a psycho ex who made my motherhood an issue for 18 farking years. Challenging sometimes--confusing sometimes, but work? It's a labor of love. You only get your kids once, don't screw it up.

the psycho ex can still go f*ck himself, though.

skepticultist: Need Help Soonish: skepticultist: Need Help Soonish: Considering the fact that I supported me and my three children quite effectively BEFORE I met him... and considering Im making more money NOW than I was then... If he up and left tomorrow, moving might be a bit of a pain, but I would be juuuuust fine.

Wait, what? How are you making more money now as a stay-at-home mom than you were when you were in the workforce?

That seems impossible.

You must have a limited imagination.

I say at home because I *work* from home... and yes, owning my own business is making me more money than working at a car dealership was.

No, my imagination is just fine. You're just an idiot who doesn't understand what is meant when one says one is a stay-at-home mother. You are not a stay-at-home mother, you are a mother who owns her own home business. This entire conversation does not apply to you, nor do any of my comments. if you weren't an idiot, you wouldn't have presented yourself as some sort of exception to my comments.

You are an apple, I am talking about oranges.

I don't own a "Home business"

I work from home yes... but I do so STRICTLY so I can be home with my children more. I made the decision to take myself out of my office job and be home with my kids because it was the right thing to do for them, AND for me. I could go rent a studio tomorrow and shuffle them off to the babysitter if I so chose.

You seem to think that one cannot make these choices independently, without "The Man" forcing her into it. You are wrong. So very, VERY wrong. I like my kids... I like being able to work in my pajamas... I like the independence doing so gives me.

Im doing what I want... not what anyone else tells me to, or expects of me. Like good Mr. Mojo already said, if you think being a feminist is simply "DONT DO WHAT THE MEN FOLK EXPECT!" you are narrowing your view far, FAR too much.

I have choices... I exercise them daily... Just because I (or another) make different choices, or have a different value system than you, doesn't automatically make us slaves of the patriarchy.

///Egads, I made dinner last night AND made my ol' man a run and coke at one point! I must be a SLAVE!

"Being a mother isn't really work" - Barack Obama

Dr. Mojo PhD: skepticultist: The patriarchy wants you to stay home. You are staying home as the patriarchy wants you to.

FARK LITTLE THEATRE

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]
"Women must not jump off cliffs. It is a sin."

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]

FIN.

Herp friggin' derp.

It is extremely sad that a person who purports to support feminism has made an argument that is literally "YOU SHOULD DO THINGS BASED ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OR WANT."

My dad would call this "Cutting off your nose to spite your face"

So very, very fitting LOL

cabbyman: "Being a mother isn't really work" - Barack Obama

I don't know what's more pathetic, the fact that you're imagining liberals actually believe this despite the amount of liberals in this thread that have condemned it, or the fact that you're deliberately attempting to misattribute the quote to Barack Obama.

I took the liberty of submitting it to FightTheSmears.com, so with a little lottery-level luck your Freeperesque attempt to make the President and liberals look worse by virtue of something he never said will become a talked-about lie that makes you, and by extension your politics, look like deranged sociopaths in comparison.

Thank you, it's always nice to see conservatives support liberal causes any way they can.

Dr. Mojo PhD: cabbyman: "Being a mother isn't really work" - Barack Obama

I don't know what's more pathetic, the fact that you're imagining liberals actually believe this despite the amount of liberals in this thread that have condemned it, or the fact that you're deliberately attempting to misattribute the quote to Barack Obama.

I took the liberty of submitting it to FightTheSmears.com, so with a little lottery-level luck your Freeperesque attempt to make the President and liberals look worse by virtue of something he never said will become a talked-about lie that makes you, and by extension your politics, look like deranged sociopaths in comparison.
.



lol. never thought of Mojo as that much of a cry baby

Need Help Soonish: My dad would call this "Cutting off your nose to spite your face"

Yup, that's about the rub.

cabbyman: "Being a mother isn't really work" - Barack Obama

"Corporations are mothers, my friend." - Mitt Romney

"I like being able to fire mothers." - Mitt Romney

"I'm not concerned about mothers. We have a safety net there." -Mitt Romney

I think she wrote this after being told to leave a high end store, kind of like in Pretty Woman. Add a rich customer getting all sorts of attention while she was storming out with a few glasses of (what she thinks is good) bourbon and youve got this drunken rant. I hope one day she finds a man that can introduce her to a good sippin liquor, farks her brains into submission, then hands her the task of looking forever young and slim while also having a few healthy males to carry on the family name. She needs to live on the other side of her rant before she becomes a fake lesbian out of spite.

robrr2003: lol. never thought of Mojo as that much of a cry baby

How is that being a crybaby? cabbyman sought to use the manipulation of information to his political advantage by attempting to create a poor reflection on the opposing ideology, in return I sought to use the same thing to mine.

I didn't realize that in your little biatch world, answering a swing to your face with a punch back was known as "being a crybaby". Is that how you soothe your butthurt over all the fights you lose? You convince yourself that those who do back to you what you're attempting to do to them, but do it better and win because of it are being "crybabies"?

Yeah, that sniveling sound you'd be making if you spoke the words aloud in earnest instead of typing them? That's being a crybaby. "Baw baw I picked a fight and lost". What you're doing right now is called "projection". It's a form of pathological or immature defence mechanism. Should talk to a therapist about that.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Need Help Soonish: My dad would call this "Cutting off your nose to spite your face"

Yup, that's about the rub.

I would like to state for the record that I thank you for the epic verbal beat downs delivered in this thread.

///Also, your email doesn't work :P

Need Help Soonish: I would like to state for the record that I thank you for the epic verbal beat downs delivered in this thread.

That's a thing I do sometimes. When I masturbate I like to imagine I'm James Carville looking in a mirror.

Need Help Soonish: ///Also, your email doesn't work :P

Hmm, what? The @Ultrafark one? I just tested it, it seems to work fine.

Dr. Mojo PhD:

Need Help Soonish: ///Also, your email doesn't work :P

Hmm, what? The @Ultrafark one? I just tested it, it seems to work fine.

Well, I copied and pasted, then tried three different versions of your name with it... I had no luck :/

///Mabey I just need more coffee
///Then again I always need more coffee

Dr. Mojo PhD: Thorny: I will also say as someone who was raised by president of the local chapter of NOW, was involved in the women's rights group at the college I went to, and took classes that specifically discussed the implications of radical feminism. You are the first person I have ever met who felt the need to say radical feminism was not true feminism.

Hmm? I never said that. I said that not everything that purports to be feminism is feminism. There is nothing about radical feminism that makes it anti-feminist as a sort of misnamed philosophy or misandric as a disguised philosophy. Not all who self-identify as radical feminists necessarily believe that dismantling the method of rule deemed a "patriarchy" necessarily means the institution of a matriarchy. In fact I would venture that they comprise a minority of those who self-identify as such.

What defines radical feminism for me was the hardline stance towards enforcing demands for equal rights. It's not so different from the radical measures abolitionists took in the 19th century; in fact it's incredibly more sedate.

The idea of applying the No True Scotsman fallacy to this is a valid question but the answer to the question isn't what you purport it to be, and it's comparably different from the religious interpretations you offer.

No True Scotsman stops being valid when the parent philosophy is divorced from the child philosophy. A baptist might purport that the Catholic is not a true Christian for any reason, or a Sunni might say the same of a shiate or vice-versa, but in those cases they're demonstrably not true. In the case of Christianity any person who bases their ethics around the philosophy of Jesus, whether or not they understand him to be divine or mortal man, triune or singular, doesn't matter. Christianity traces its founding philosophy to the philosophy of Jesus, and all the particulars of the divine/mortal/three-in-one/singular came at the same time.

A Baptist is wrong to say a Catholic isn't a Christian ...

Yes, you just took a bunch of examples of radical feminism and said they were pseudofeminists.

I will also say this. If I defined feminism or radical feminism the way you just did on an exam or in a paper...I assure you it would be marked as wrong.

Much of feminist philosophy strives for equality, but not all does. You can say that the majority of radical feminists also are striving for this...but the reality of the situation is that whether they believe this or not has nothing to do with whether they are radical feminists. Radical feminists want to do what is in the best interest of the female sex as a whole and are against women making choices that they see as reinforcing patriarchy thus hurting other women.

While the philosophy was likely born of equality and the majority of radical feminists might strive for equality. The reality of the situation is that this is a brand of feminist philosophy that is not truly based on equality and is not about women being free to make the same choices men can make.

I know how terms like feminism and radical feminism are used in society. I also know how they are used in feminist circles (how you are using them). I also know how they are defined academically and I am obviously going with academic definitions.

Feminism traces its founding to the belief that women are capable of thinking for themselves (and not even necessarily that they are capable of rational thought). Thus, just about everyone is a feminist in today's society whether they identify with the term or not.

How feminist philosophy is lumped together I am not exactly sure. My guess is it would be any philosophy whose primary interest is gender/sex inequality.

The world will never have the economic equality the author is working for as long as women like her put more economic value on what men are biologically better equipped at competing on.

Of course her dividing women between those that choose motherhood and not to compete in male dominated area with those that want to compete with men using the rules set up by men, is not going to help her cause either.

Frankly women need to change the game to win the way the author wants. Instead of society putting more value on the masculine traits start putting more or equal value on the feminine.

Getting frustrated that women have a choice and sometimes choose "wrong" (in the author's eyes) seems like a stupid way to approach the issue.

The fact that women can't compete at the same level as men in professional sports must really frustrate her...if she worked to make men frustrated because they can't compete with women on professionally developing a child she could actually achieve something of her goal.

MAXIMUM TROLLING!

I loved it.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Yeah, that sniveling sound you'd be making if you spoke the words aloud in earnest instead of typing them? That's being a crybaby. "Baw baw I picked a fight and lost". What you're doing right now is called "projection". It's a form of pathological or immature defence mechanism. Should talk to a therapist about that.

He's also one of those 'Oh geez, look at all the libs playing the race card' self made victim types, and usually when you do a word search for 'race,' his is the starting comment.

KiplingKat872: I had a co-worker with a degree in engineering from Perdue. She did not find the professional world personally satifying and quit to become a (married) full time mom of two. She is happy, and a patient, stable, encouraging influence in her children's lives. She's a far better mom than I ever could be.

So the author of this article can go fark her narrow, self abdorbed, elistist notions of what "feminism" is. To me feminism is the confidence in myself as a woman outside the gender roles and stereotypes pushed on us by the media, the ability for women to chose their life path/to have agency in their lives, and equal respect in the world and work place as men.

Actually the author is correct. She is a feminist. You kids today seem to be thinking feminism is gender equality. Feminism is a bad thing. It isn't gender equality, it's feminazism. It's WOMAN > man. It's not equal pay for equal work, it's a role reversal of the genders from the 1950s.

The author is absolutely a feminist and she is absolutely right in everything she says from the standpoint of feminism. Normal, well-adjusted women raising families kill feminism. They do not kill gender equality, they kill feminism.

You're actually mistaking feminism for a good thing. You're mistaking feminism for gender equality.

In the sense that "work" is something you do in exchange for money, it's not.

But that's not what the word work means. Work actually means "Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result." according to even a cursory Googling.

The desired result: Well-raised, healthy children.
The effort: Years and years of constant effort, both physical and mental.

So, yep, definitely work.

Terrible Old Man: You're actually mistaking feminism for a good thing. You're mistaking feminism for gender equality.

Quoted for truth.

Terrible Old Man: It's WOMAN > man.

You, of course, have citations to support this assertion, perhaps multiple studies of published works by self-identified feminists of any stripe that demonstrate a tendency to publish a majority (or anything approaching a majority) body of work that suggests that females are superior to males?

You left that out, right? Like you were going to support your wild, raving assertions, but your fingers just sort of slipped off the keyboard and you got distracted while exploring the moist, cavernous recesses of your nose.

Zmog: A much clearer example of this (and often with graver consequences) would be homosexuality. If the attitudes towards it was normalized, if it wasn't considered "alternative" in a great part of the general mindset even when you discount actual bigotry, "coming out" wouldn't be a thing.

I agree, but, by way of analogy, the woman who wrote this article would say that all men should come out as gay in order to be supportive of homosexuality, even if they aren't gay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be supporting homosexuals.

Moonfisher: For this woman to try to define my choice to spend a few years away from paid work to care for my children in their early years as some kind of betrayal of feminism is absurd. Her version of feminism is not freeing women from oppression, it is merely changing the form of it. Instead of being chained to our homes and hearth, she wants us chained to a career. I will not be tied to either path based on anyone's notion of what my sex should or shouldn't be doing, thank you very much, be they a chauvinist or a feminist.

Support

Need Help Soonish: Well, I copied and pasted, then tried three different versions of your name with it... I had no luck :/

Ah, that's your problem, is you copy-and-pasted. Fark uses an auto-obfuscator to foil spambots, so copy-and-pasting gives you this:
Dr-Mojo-PhD[nospam-﹫-backwards]krafartlu*com

That... yeah, that won't through. But on the other hand lol @ Krafartlu

If you want to send it (without clicking the mailto: link), you have to type it out manually exactly as it appears on the profile page, without varying the symbols or anything.

PillsHere: "Real" feminists just need a new word for themselves - I just hope it isn't femi-nazi because it's such an ugly word.

I thought that feminism was about seeking equality? Which can express itself in thousands of ways that aren't 'get a job.'

Right?

Dr. Mojo PhD: Need Help Soonish: Well, I copied and pasted, then tried three different versions of your name with it... I had no luck :/

Ah, that's your problem, is you copy-and-pasted. Fark uses an auto-obfuscator to foil spambots, so copy-and-pasting gives you this:
Dr-Mojo-PhD[nospam-﹫-backwards]krafartlu*com

That... yeah, that won't through. But on the other hand lol @ Krafartlu

If you want to send it (without clicking the mailto: link), you have to type it out manually exactly as it appears on the profile page, without varying the symbols or anything.

Agh... yea, I typed it out, but I was using underscores for some.... reason I can't quite understand LOL. Egh.

///anyways, enjoy your mail :P
///I think I still need more coffee O.o

skepticultist: A woman who chooses to obey Christ and enter into a covenant marriage where the man is recognized as the supreme authority of the house, complete with the right to deliver corporal discipline to his wife, and devotes her freetime to supporting right-wing causes that disempower and harm all women who choose differently than her (such as supporting the Family Research Council and Operation Rescue) is NOT A FEMINIST.

Yet you want us to believe that she is, because she made a choice. That's farking stupid. Much like you and your retarded arguments in this thread.

You can be a stay-at-home mom, and not be in a covenant marriage. Obviously, you are taking the slogan 'it's about choice' into an illogical extreme that the no on here intend for it to be applied to. (Like, when people say 'marriage is about love!' you could be a douche and respond, 'well, then, what if a grandfather and a grandson love each other! Or if a man and a horse do! Shouldn't they be allowed to get married, if they only criterion is 'love.'

There are, obviously, boundaries outside of 'it's about love' to be taken as givens, but douches don't.

Obviously, in this debate, anyone arguing that a stay-at-home mom can be a feminist takes as a given that said stay-at-home mom is in an equal relationship with her spouse. Not to acknowledge that as a given just means you're being a douche.

Need Help Soonish: Agh... yea, I typed it out, but I was using underscores for some.... reason I can't quite understand LOL. Egh.

Need Help Soonish: ///I think I still need more coffee O.o

Some questions just answer themselves, don't they? If it makes you feel any better I'm at a point in my caffeinated life where I can drink a pot of coffee over a couple hours and go to sleep immediately after, so acclimatized am I to it that it more wakes me up as a matter of ritual than actual chemical stimulant.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Need Help Soonish: Agh... yea, I typed it out, but I was using underscores for some.... reason I can't quite understand LOL. Egh.

Need Help Soonish: ///I think I still need more coffee O.o

Some questions just answer themselves, don't they? If it makes you feel any better I'm at a point in my caffeinated life where I can drink a pot of coffee over a couple hours and go to sleep immediately after, so acclimatized am I to it that it more wakes me up as a matter of ritual than actual chemical stimulant.

*sigh*

Truth.

skepticultist: But feminism in this sense is still incomplete, and thus one can rightfully say that making choices that are patriarchy approved -- making choices that do no conflict with the choices patriarchy would make for women -- is not feminist and thus women who make such choices are not feminist.

"And thus?" Wait, nothing that came before the 'thus' led to what came after the 'thus.'

You and talking need to take a break from each other. Go off, try new things, meet new people.

skepticultist: Dr. Mojo PhD: skepticultist: The patriarchy wants you to stay home. You are staying home as the patriarchy wants you to.

FARK LITTLE THEATRE

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]
"Women must not jump off cliffs. It is a sin."

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]

FIN.

Herp friggin' derp.

It is extremely sad that a person who purports to support feminism has made an argument that is literally "YOU SHOULD DO THINGS BASED ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OR WANT."

Yeah, except for one little problem: The patriarchy isn't actually telling women to jump off cliffs. The patriarchy is actually telling women that their place is in the home rearing children.

Context. Reality. These are the things your argument is glossing over.


Defining your behavior based on doing the opposite of what someone wants to do makes you just as much of a child as defining your behavior based on doing what someone does want you to do.

And it seems you've never heard of the word 'analogy.'

look it up. There's some fun stuff in there!

Dr. Mojo PhD: cabbyman: "Being a mother isn't really work" - Barack Obama

I don't know what's more pathetic, the fact that you're imagining liberals actually believe this despite the amount of liberals in this thread that have condemned it, or the fact that you're deliberately attempting to misattribute the quote to Barack Obama.

I took the liberty of submitting it to FightTheSmears.com, so with a little lottery-level luck your Freeperesque attempt to make the President and liberals look worse by virtue of something he never said will become a talked-about lie that makes you, and by extension your politics, look like deranged sociopaths in comparison.

Thank you, it's always nice to see conservatives support liberal causes any way they can.

You're kinda whiny today, aren't you?

Terrible Old Man: Actually the author is correct. She is a feminist. You kids today seem to be thinking feminism is gender equality. Feminism is a bad thing. It isn't gender equality, it's feminazism. It's WOMAN > man. It's not equal pay for equal work, it's a role reversal of the genders from the 1950s.

The author is absolutely a feminist and she is absolutely right in everything she says from the standpoint of feminism. Normal, well-adjusted women raising families kill feminism. They do not kill gender equality, they kill feminism.

You're actually mistaking feminism for a good thing. You're mistaking feminism for gender equality.

Nah, the author of TFA is an annoying, self satisfied twat. You're mistaking "feminism" for being a twat.

Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.[1][2] In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is a "person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism."[3]

Wikipedia said that! You can't argue with Wikipedia.

Dr. Mojo PhD: You made this thread worth 5 bucks.

Yay sensationalist, out of context headline! Being a parent is not work in the sense that it's not a job. When being a mother is used as an equivalent to having a job it's a false equivalency because equality is based on economics. That's the point of the article. I agree. Nothing wrong with stay at home of course! But, don't act like it is what it isn't...

cabbyman: You're kinda whiny today, aren't you?

Dr. Mojo PhD: cabbyman: You're kinda whiny today, aren't you?

[i.imgur.com image 640x351]

Hey little baby poopy pants. Stop being all whiny!

It's not my fault that Obama hates America's moms as referenced in the article that he wrote about it...

Thorny: Dr. Mojo PhD: skepticultist: The patriarchy wants you to stay home. You are staying home as the patriarchy wants you to.

FARK LITTLE THEATRE

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]
"Women must not jump off cliffs. It is a sin."

[i.imgur.com image 240x338]

FIN.

Herp friggin' derp.

It is extremely sad that a person who purports to support feminism has made an argument that is literally "YOU SHOULD DO THINGS BASED ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK OR WANT."

A friend of mine had a serious health condition and was going bankrupt trying to deal with it. She was in a long term relationship with a man who got insurance through his employer but would not marry him because marriage is a patriarchal construct. She ended up giving in...and many of her close friends did not support her decision.

Actually, among some of the hard core feminists, I think they might actually jump off a cliff...or at least have to think about it long and hard.

So your friend didn't marry for love, she married as a business arrangement.
I wouldn't characterize what she did as 'giving in'. No one forced her into this
business arrangement. She prostituted herself for the sake of her long-term
health and credit standing, on her own.

She needs to be happy with it. And shrug off her friends. A business arrangment,
properly set up, is a different beast from marrying for love. It's just a contract arrangement,
and a more honest one. She won't be able to scam the state as a 'single' woman
who's actually in a relationship, but nobody should be doing that anyway.

What did the dude she was with get out of it, beyond an opportunity at better
promotions because of his new married state, and the loss of half should they
divorce with bad feelings?

ExperianScaresCthulhu: So your friend didn't marry for love, she married as a business arrangement. I wouldn't characterize what she did as 'giving in'. No one forced her into this business arrangement. She prostituted herself for the sake of her long-term health and credit standing, on her own.

Why the pejorative characterization? Marriage has been primarily about "love" even in the USA for little more than a century. For all of history for most of humanity it has been about wealth generation and preservation. All it looks to me like she did was revert to the historic norm.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: So your friend didn't marry for love, she married as a business arrangement.
I wouldn't characterize what she did as 'giving in'. No one forced her into this
business arrangement. She prostituted herself for the sake of her long-term
health and credit standing, on her own.

She needs to be happy with it. And shrug off her friends. A business arrangment,
properly set up, is a different beast from marrying for love. It's just a contract arrangement,
and a more honest one. She won't be able to scam the state as a 'single' woman
who's actually in a relationship, but nobody should be doing that anyway.

It's so nice that we now live in a society that views marriage as whoring. How far we have come.

What did the dude she was with get out of it, beyond an opportunity at better
promotions because of his new married state, and the loss of half should they
divorce with bad feelings?

The same thing that wealthy donors get if they support Democrats over Republicans. He gets to "feel good" about who he gives his money to. Lucrative gain? No so much, perhaps.

But you, like TFA's author, and maybe that dude's radical feminist wife, fail to understand that there is more value to relationships than the dollars you get out of them.

Money is a poor yardstick with which to measure wealth.

Pay for your own damn crotch fruit. The only people who should pay are you and the biological father.

If your kid grows up a screwed up criminal, it is FAR cheaper to throw his ass in jail as an example. You'll, or maybe your aspiring single mom daughter, wil get the message eventually.

Need Help Soonish: I say at home because I *work* from home... and yes, owning my own business is making me more money than working at a car dealership was.

...

I don't own a "Home business"

I work from home yes...

You own a business. You work from home. Your home is your place of business.

You own a home business.

Also, you are a farking idiot.