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(BusinessWeek)   Remember how Japan shut down all its nuclear reactors? Yeah, about that   (businessweek.com) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, Japan, Democratic Party of Japan, Liberal Democratic Party, NEC, electricity supply, house of parliament, Tokyo Electric Power Co., nuclear freeze  
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8129 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2012 at 2:24 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-06-16 12:57:48 PM  
They decided they wanted enough electricity more.
 
2012-06-16 02:29:17 PM  
Well nukes do power a third of the grid over there. Damn right the voters would want it back.
 
2012-06-16 02:32:05 PM  
If they don't now they will this winter.
 
2012-06-16 02:33:49 PM  
Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.
 
2012-06-16 02:35:53 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-06-16 02:36:26 PM  
The other thing to consider is the demand on Japan's grid also dropped by a decent amount. Honda's entire tech center was pretty much flattened for example. Canon and Sony both lost some factories. Those things are coming back online and that also makes the lack of nuke plants much more noticeable.
 
2012-06-16 02:39:04 PM  
I'm sorry, but you were thinking they'd all switch back to coal or something?

Idiots.
 
2012-06-16 02:39:49 PM  
The nuclear backlash is coming at a very bad time.

Any serious effort to combat climate change and reduce carbon emissions (which is a much greater threat) must include a significant amount of nuclear power.

Obviously, safety must be a paramount concern, but incidents such as Fukushima were largely preventable - the result of aging reactors not being subject to adequate inspection or regulation. That doesn't mean that nuclear power as a whole should be abandoned - that's an insane overreaction. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's no reason that newer reactor designs, subject to adequate inspection and oversight, can't be operated as safely as any other source of power. And with zero carbon emissions.
 
2012-06-16 02:41:45 PM  

ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.


They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html
 
2012-06-16 02:44:40 PM  
I immediately assumed they shut down the nukes for a different reason than the people were told. Business and government just doesn't react that fast to the will of the people. They probably just did some inspections and repairs and are now telling a different story as they reboot.
 
2012-06-16 02:45:17 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
Soon
 
2012-06-16 02:47:08 PM  

skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html


Not that hot? That chart shows temperatures in the mid 80's to low 90's during July and August plus they say it gets very humid. That is prime AC conditions.
 
2012-06-16 02:50:50 PM  
Lots of people not reading articles here ... 71% of the population is against restarting the reactors. Like the US, the main reason they're doing it is because big business says so. Threatening to move overseas if they can't meet power needs and whatnot.
 
2012-06-16 02:51:07 PM  
i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-16 02:55:24 PM  
Thank you, Gallant,
I was just going to ad my too sense in their, two.
 
2012-06-16 03:00:37 PM  
To follow Gallant's example, let me point out that shut down is two words when used this way.
 
2012-06-16 03:07:40 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Well nukes do power a third of the grid over there. Damn right the voters would want it back.


Except they don't want it back. The two third number reflect the theorical max production capacity. much bigger than the usual wastefull comsumption (with all light on all night) and much much much bigger than a more environemental friendly power use ( lights of after office close, air cooling not set to 'ice cold/concrete piercing hard nipples')
 
2012-06-16 03:11:36 PM  

ongbok: skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html

Not that hot? That chart shows temperatures in the mid 80's to low 90's during July and August plus they say it gets very humid. That is prime AC conditions.


I'm in Vegas right now. it was 91 degrees last night at midnight. Comparatively, they should almost never even turn their AC on.

/btw $500 energy bills are not uncommon here...
 
2012-06-16 03:13:04 PM  
Didn't Germany also decide to shut down all their nuke plants? How did that turn out?
 
2012-06-16 03:20:14 PM  

belhade: Didn't Germany also decide to shut down all their nuke plants? How did that turn out?


What, are you setting up holocaust jokes now? Please, nobody bite.
 
2012-06-16 03:21:26 PM  

skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html


Clearly you've never spent a July or August in Tokyo. Yeah, sure, it's only 92 out. But when you tack on the 99.7% humidity, suddenly it doesn't feel a whole lot different from the 105 in Arizona.
 
2012-06-16 04:38:41 PM  
Seventy-one percent of respondents to the Mainichi newspaper poll......


Well with science like that....
 
2012-06-16 04:43:40 PM  
We could all use thorium reactors.
Stimulate economies with thorium mining, building reactors, and running them.
No nasty nuclear waste, or bomb building materials as a by product.
 
2012-06-16 04:44:03 PM  
Hi everyone! Present and accounted for!

Doc Daneeka: Obviously, safety must be a paramount concern, but incidents such as Fukushima were largely preventable - the result of aging reactors not being subject to adequate inspection or regulation.


First, the reactors at Fukushima were old model BWRs and WERE ABOUT TO BE SHUT DOWN. They were in their last or next to last power cycle. Seriously, like two years left running. That's why there were new reactors going up next door: To replace the units that were shutting down due to age. Seriously, they knew the old birds were at lifespan and they were about to turn them off.

Second, the age of the Fukushima reactors is NOT what caused the event. Hell, I am STILL impressed that Japanese nuclear did as well as they did. They're a huge percentage nuclear and only Fukushima had major problems, and it was the tsunami that did almost all the major damage. And the major damage wasn't to primary containment, it was the fact that the waves swept away the fuel tanks for the diesel generators. THAT was the major cause of the huge damage. THAT was the turning point. If they had been able to keep emergency cooling running the damage would have been a fraction what it is now!

Emergency cooling is what will get you. That's why there's usually three or four power sources for it. But, when you're in shutdown, and you lose offsite power, all you have are diesels. And in the past, there have been plants that have proven that out. Waterford 3, in New Orleans, took Katrina face first, and ended up running on diesel generators for the majority of a month. All of those diesels at once pounding along is about a tanker truck oh, every four to six hours by the way. They currently hold something of a record with the NRC for "plant that ran the longest on diesel alone." And Waterford 3 is just fine for it.

And Fukushima lost their fuel tanks. I mean, who the hell plans for a massive fuel tank to up and leave, after all? So now there are MASSIVE modifications going on all over the world to make sure that this situation can't happen anywhere else. You'll probably be seeing a lot of lifted diesel tanks in the future.

That doesn't mean that nuclear power as a whole should be abandoned - that's an insane overreaction. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's no reason that newer reactor designs, subject to adequate inspection and oversight, can't be operated as safely as any other source of power. And with zero carbon emissions.

All the above correction aside, I appreciate your point, and nod approvingly of this statement. Nuclear actually produces less greenhouse gasses than Hydro, oddly enough!

/I don't know enough about Japanese regulation to make a statement either way
//but I'll defend the NRC and INPO as much as I can
 
2012-06-16 04:50:19 PM  

Miss Behavyn: We could all use thorium reactors.
Stimulate economies with thorium mining, building reactors, and running them.
No nasty nuclear waste, or bomb building materials as a by product.


weknowmemes.com

First point: Thorium reactors will see a resurgence in Reactor Generation IV. Not before. Looking at, oh, 2024 to 2030 for timeframe. We are going into Reactor Generation III+ right now (AP 1000, EPR, ABWR). Do some reading about the Gen IV International forum, and what they're doing. Only one of their designs is uranium/water based.

Second point: Oh, how I wish it was that easy. But, feel free to look at the construction around Vogtle III and IV, and the excitement about it.

Third point: Thorium reactors WILL HAVE WASTE. Stop thinking purely in terms of fuel waste! The vast, VAST majority of nuclear waste is NOT FUEL. You're also looking at the replacement of major components, waste water, waste oil, mixed waste, chemicals, low level waste (like PCs and trash), hot trash, hot metal, it goes on and on. Just because you've done away with "traditional" fuel rods does not mean you will not have waste! In fact, you're opening doors to different kinds of waste entirely! Not everything can be reused!

/a fun one to dispose: broken down, contaminated lead blankets
 
2012-06-16 05:05:29 PM  

skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html


images2.layoutsparks.com

Upper 80s/low 90's isn't hot? Those charts don't include humidity either, which is quite present in Japanese summers. From your own link:

The rainy season (tsuyu) typically ends in the first half of July. It is hot and humid in most of Japan, and just standing outdoors can make you sweat.
August is hot and humid in most of Japan.
The weather in September can still be quite hot and humid.
 
2012-06-16 05:39:10 PM  
Yes about that submitter? They did shut them down. The article says so.
 
2012-06-16 05:53:44 PM  

spawn73: Yes about that submitter? They did shut them down. The article says so.


The article also says they're being powered back up after inspections, apparently.
 
2012-06-16 06:07:20 PM  

Ringshadow: spawn73: Yes about that submitter? They did shut them down. The article says so.

The article also says they're being powered back up after inspections, apparently.


Yes, but they did shut them down. So submitters headline is stupid. I need to point that out obviously.
 
2012-06-16 06:15:05 PM  

belhade: Didn't Germany also decide to shut down all their nuke plants? How did that turn out?


Germany has France and all their nukes to buy electricity from. Japan doesn't even have a national grid.
 
2012-06-16 07:01:15 PM  

Gleeman: skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html



Upper 80s/low 90's isn't hot? Those charts don't include humidity either, which is quite present in Japanese summers. From your own link:

The rainy season (tsuyu) typically ends in the first half of July. It is hot and humid in most of Japan, and just standing outdoors can make you sweat.
August is hot and humid in most of Japan.
The weather in September can still be quite hot and humid.


It's already humid as all hell here. Not that hot yet, but it's coming.
 
2012-06-16 07:50:48 PM  

Phil the SWO: Gleeman: skantea: ongbok: Was the obvious tag on vacation? When they announced this shut down,

I remember reading an article some guy wrote about it saying once the summer hit the public would be changing their minds about shutting down the plants.

They don't get that hot over there.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2273.html



Upper 80s/low 90's isn't hot? Those charts don't include humidity either, which is quite present in Japanese summers. From your own link:

The rainy season (tsuyu) typically ends in the first half of July. It is hot and humid in most of Japan, and just standing outdoors can make you sweat.
August is hot and humid in most of Japan.
The weather in September can still be quite hot and humid.

It's already humid as all hell here. Not that hot yet, but it's coming.



When my ship was over there it was only for a few months and in winter, so not humid but cold as a witch's mammary gland.
 
2012-06-16 09:35:08 PM  

RobocopMustang: belhade: Didn't Germany also decide to shut down all their nuke plants? How did that turn out?

Germany has France and all their nukes to buy electricity from. Japan doesn't even have a national grid.


Yeah, but Germany isn't prone to devastating earthquakes and tsunamis. Seemed like a ridiculous overreaction on their part.
 
2012-06-17 12:08:13 AM  
Without turning the nuclear power plants back on, they would get a lot of brown outs. No air conditioning in the middle of summer with an extremely large elderly population would end up with a huge amount of deaths. Tokyo can reach the 100F mark then add in the fact there aren't a lot of green spaces and nothing but black top and concrete.
 
2012-06-17 12:30:54 AM  
Glad to see Ringshadow covering what I came here to do...

Leaving happy...
 
2012-06-17 03:05:26 AM  
Oh no... they say he's got to go. GO GO NODAZILLA!
 
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