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(Bloomberg)   FCC plans to submit yet another glowing report about cell phone radiation   (bloomberg.com) divider line 59
    More: Obvious, ionizing radiation, Mobile phone radiation and health, cell phones, radiation, U.S. Federal Communications Commission, U.S., Environmental Health Perspectives, Tom Harkin  
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1245 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jun 2012 at 11:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 08:14:01 AM
It would be amusing if they found that using a cellphone in a car focuses the radiation on your brain. Of course it would explain a few things, too.
 
2012-06-16 09:29:22 AM
In all of these articles, when they invariably have to state that there is zero evidence, why do they also not state that: there isn't even a plausible means for 1-5GHz to interact with the body at the wattage phones put out.

The NULL hypothesis is that there should be no effect. We keep proving that hypothesis over and over again. Let's just be honest. The general public is poorly educated and afraid. No amount of proof will ever suffice and you, the general public, don't care about the physics of how this stuff works.

/E=hv
//A brilliant person got an F$@&ing Nobel Prize for it
///Cancer causes cell phones
 
2012-06-16 09:31:04 AM

b2theory: In all of these articles, when they invariably have to state that there is zero evidence, why do they also not state that: there isn't even a plausible means for 1-5GHz to interact with the body at the wattage phones put out.

The NULL hypothesis is that there should be no effect. We keep proving that hypothesis over and over again. Let's just be honest. The general public is poorly educated and afraid. No amount of proof will ever suffice and you, the general public, don't care about the physics of how this stuff works.

/E=hv
//A brilliant person got an F$@&ing Nobel Prize for it
///Cancer causes cell phones


Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.
 
2012-06-16 11:22:51 AM

St_Francis_P: Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.


No, no, no! It's up to the big heads to make something perfectly safe that does exactly the same thing as a cellphone, but is perfectly safe and can be demonstrated to be so to an audience with the science background of a goldfish and the attention span of a cat.
 
2012-06-16 11:26:29 AM

St_Francis_P:
///Cancer causes cell phones

Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone. catch cancer.


Fixed that for XKCD like accuracy.
 
2012-06-16 11:29:09 AM

natazha: St_Francis_P: Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

No, no, no! It's up to the big heads to make something perfectly safe that does exactly the same thing as a cellphone, but is perfectly safe and can be demonstrated to be so to an audience with the science background of a goldfish and the attention span of a cat.


Heyheyhey.... I'll have you know my cats are capable of a great deal of concentration

/they can sit and stare at a spot on the wall for hours
 
2012-06-16 11:33:06 AM

b2theory: E=hv


THAT'S JUST A THEORY! LIKE GRAVITY OR THE EFFECTS OF ANTIBIOTICS ON BACTERIAL INFECTIONS!
 
2012-06-16 11:40:33 AM

St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.


Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating). That's all it took for me to decide i didn't want to put one to my head any longer. Don't need thousands of studies or cancer fearmongering to tell me regularly cooking parts of my face or brain isn't a good thing. And it just cooking your face or brain 'a little bit' doesn't put me at ease.
 
2012-06-16 11:43:42 AM
The so-called capitalist "job creators" want to kill you for profit! Wake up, sheeple!

www.globalhealingcenter.com
 
2012-06-16 11:45:11 AM

J. Frank Parnell: St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating). That's all it took for me to decide i didn't want to put one to my head any longer. Don't need thousands of studies or cancer fearmongering to tell me regularly cooking parts of my face or brain isn't a good thing. And it just cooking your face or brain 'a little bit' doesn't put me at ease.


Did you know that your body is constantly cooking your brain at around 98.6 degrees F?
 
2012-06-16 11:50:48 AM

fluffy2097: Did you know that your body is constantly cooking your brain at around 98.6 degrees F?


Won't cook anything at that temp, and the body doesn't use dielectric heating. It's a completely different process.

/When i use big words like dielectric heating it helps to google them if you're unfamiliar
 
2012-06-16 11:55:14 AM

J. Frank Parnell: fluffy2097: Did you know that your body is constantly cooking your brain at around 98.6 degrees F?

Won't cook anything at that temp, and the body doesn't use dielectric heating. It's a completely different process.

/When i use big words like dielectric heating it helps to google them if you're unfamiliar


I just think your brain was cooked long before cell phones.
 
2012-06-16 11:58:12 AM
Oh yeah. Go do your math on the Skin Effect. Formulas are all there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

/derp
//Sunlight has a greater chance of giving you cancer
 
2012-06-16 11:59:10 AM
Oh yeah. Microwaves and wifi use the same frequency range.

Do you have wifi in your house? Because cancer.
 
2012-06-16 12:05:54 PM

fluffy2097: Oh yeah. Go do your math on the Skin Effect. Formulas are all there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

/derp
//Sunlight has a greater chance of giving you cancer


The skin effect requires a conductor and you have larger problems at 1 GHz. You have to do quite a bit of work to get things to conduct at that frequency.
 
2012-06-16 12:07:41 PM

fluffy2097: Sunlight has a greater chance of giving you cancer


Because i said it would give people cancer? I didn't.

Just explained how the molecular process which causes the heating makes me uneasy. I have no problem with those of you who want to keep putting them to your head, and for people like yourself, it gives me pleasure to think of you doing so.
 
2012-06-16 12:07:46 PM

J. Frank Parnell: fluffy2097: Did you know that your body is constantly cooking your brain at around 98.6 degrees F?

Won't cook anything at that temp, and the body doesn't use dielectric heating. It's a completely different process.

/When i use big words like dielectric heating it helps to google them if you're unfamiliar


En guarde!

So you mean to say, if we were to perform an experiment for science's sake, we use a ceramic (unaffected by the dielectric effect) or safe plastic bowl, with reasonable insulation, and place it with a small amount of water on top of a phone, and we then start burning data, that the water in the bowl will heat up, but not the surface of the phone, or the outside of the bowl touching the phone?

Typically, the heat you're feeling is actually real, thermally radiant heat being emitted from the processing being done, with comprably minimal amounts of microwave radiation. The battery will also warm slightly, which contributes to the heat output.

Don't believe me? That's fine too, but it would also mean that there would be practically no purpose for the thermal sensors in the phone . Modern devices are powerful, and yes, you can pick up interference on unshielded audio equipment, but the microwave trancieving is not the reason the phone feels hot, its all the horsepower under the hood.
 
2012-06-16 12:16:40 PM
Science creates problems, but science can fix them too. There is a line of radiation-cleanseness products that will clear your living space's magnetic toxicity from the poison that rich fat cats and their GOP cronies pump into you every day.

www.globalhealingcenter.com
 
2012-06-16 12:16:44 PM

St_Francis_P: if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.


Yeah, but then there's those people who are paranoid about just being NEAR a cell phone or transmitter, and they won't sit back quietly. Link
 
2012-06-16 12:17:09 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Just explained how the molecular process which causes the heating makes me uneasy.


What do you think it's going to do to you?

Give you cancer?
 
2012-06-16 12:21:55 PM

b2theory: there isn't even a plausible means for 1-5GHz to interact with the body at the wattage phones put out.

The NULL hypothesis is that there should be no effect. We keep proving that hypothesis over and over again.


J. Frank Parnell: The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating).


You can't both be right.
 
2012-06-16 12:25:49 PM
Naesen, i understand what you're saying, but attempts to play down the microwaves as causing the heating are kind of dubious to me, considering that's what microwaves do, and cellphones emit a lot of them.
 
2012-06-16 12:29:00 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Naesen, i understand what you're saying, but attempts to play down the microwaves as causing the heating are kind of dubious to me, considering that's what microwaves do, and cellphones emit a lot of them.


How can I be so dumb and yet so much smarter then you? The mind boggles.

/maybe that's just because I'm dumb.
//What do you think is going to happen to you if your brain is heated 0.01 degrees by microwaves anyways? Running or a shower will heat it more.
 
2012-06-16 12:30:27 PM
THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY DOING WHEN YOU BUTT DIAL SOMEONE!
southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
 
2012-06-16 12:31:19 PM

J. Frank Parnell: St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating).


That's like saying a laser pointer is the same thing as a 1000 Watt fiber laser.

As a matter of fact, the warming that you feel is in fact heat from the phone conducted to your ear. I've noticed that this has not been a problem with never cell phones. I also know that there is a new generation of extremely efficent switching supplies makinh there way into mobile devices. This leads me to believe that most of the early pnones pulled their 3.3 and 1.8 Volt rails from linear regulators. This would have made them fairly warm.
 
2012-06-16 12:46:20 PM
There are some "electrosensitive" people just as there are peanut-sensitive people. That tiny minority is very vociferous about the dangers of EMF to them. Their worries inspire worries in many non-sensitive people.
 
2012-06-16 12:50:11 PM

BarkingUnicorn: There are some "electrosensitive" people just as there are peanut-sensitive people.


No there are not. Such claims have never stood up to blinded tests.
 
2012-06-16 01:03:23 PM

J. Frank Parnell: St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating). That's all it took for me to decide i didn't want to put one to my head any longer. Don't need thousands of studies or cancer fearmongering to tell me regularly cooking parts of my face or brain isn't a good thing. And it just cooking your face or brain 'a little bit' doesn't put me at ease.


I hate to say you're wrong, but you're wrong.

I've walked in front of satellite antennas operating anywhere from
To prove it, just take a cell phone, call your house and let it sit for a little while without touching it. Go back about 10-15 minutes later and you can feel that it is warmer.
 
2012-06-16 01:05:06 PM

Mr. Breeze: J. Frank Parnell: St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating). That's all it took for me to decide i didn't want to put one to my head any longer. Don't need thousands of studies or cancer fearmongering to tell me regularly cooking parts of my face or brain isn't a good thing. And it just cooking your face or brain 'a little bit' doesn't put me at ease.

I hate to say you're wrong, but you're wrong.

I've walked in front of satellite antennas operating anywhere from

FIFM. For some reason it cut out part.

 
2012-06-16 01:06:58 PM

Mr. Breeze: Mr. Breeze: J. Frank Parnell: St_Francis_P: Tend to agree. Not to mention, if you're worried so much about it, don't use a cellphone.

Threw my cellphone away years ago.

The fact of the matter is they are microwave emitters, and you can feel the same warming on your skin from using one that a microwave oven uses to cook food (no, it's not the battery that causes the warming, you gullible person. It's dielectric heating). That's all it took for me to decide i didn't want to put one to my head any longer. Don't need thousands of studies or cancer fearmongering to tell me regularly cooking parts of my face or brain isn't a good thing. And it just cooking your face or brain 'a little bit' doesn't put me at ease.

I hate to say you're wrong, but you're wrong.

I've walked in front of satellite antennas operating anywhere from

FIFM. For some reason it cut out part.


AAAH Fark. I might have to preview it first, lol.

I've walked in front of satellite antennas operating anywhere from less than 1W to 35W in C, X, and Ku Bands. There is no warming effect at those power levels. Otherwise microwave ovens wouldn't require 1000+ watts to operate.

To prove it, just take a cell phone, call your house and let it sit for a little while without touching it. Go back about 10-15 minutes later and you can feel that it is warmer.
 
2012-06-16 02:39:56 PM
Let's see. What's the first step in grilling a frozen steak. Thaw. Hmmmm.

So the energy of the grill finishes the cooking process but some other source of energy actually thaws the steak initially and brings it to ambient temperature.

Why it's as though two separate sources of energy might contribute to causing cancer...er, I mean cooking steak.
 
2012-06-16 04:09:48 PM

J. Frank Parnell: that's what microwaves do, and cellphones emit a lot of them.


That is what microwaves do, but cellphones do not emit a lot of them. The standard incandescent light bulb is used to cook food in Easy-Bake-Ovens. By your logic, incandescent bulbs are at least as dangerous as cellphones.

But we already know you're an idiot. At least, Farky does.

BarkingUnicorn: There are some "electrosensitive"


Just to repeat what b2theory said: no there are not. It's made up bullshiat. Also, humans are fairly transparent in the microwave spectrum. Cellphones wouldn't work that great if we weren't- can you imagine if holding your cellphone on one side of your head versus the other would terminate your call? For someone to somehow be electrosensitive, they'd have to be able to absorb more microwave radiation than someone else- but your ability to absorb microwaves isn't some genetic property, it's a function of elemental chemistry. You are not made of things that absorb microwaves terribly well. Water is your best microwave absorber, but you're so thin compared to the wavelength of microwaves (about 2.5") that you're still not going to catch a lot.

Also, a microwave oven isn't simply a thousand times more powerful than your cellphone. The size of the microwave cavity is scaled to the frequency of the magnetron so that it can create a standing wave. This means that there are certain points in the oven which are going to deliver the maximum energy potential for the wave. The whole thing is built to do the best job delivering microwaves to its target. Your cellphone is designed to communicate over long distances.
 
2012-06-16 05:05:22 PM

t3knomanser: Just to repeat what b2theory said: no there are not. It's made up bullshiat. Also, humans are fairly transparent in the microwave spectrum. Cellphones wouldn't work that great if we weren't- can you imagine if holding your cellphone on one side of your head versus the other would terminate your call? For someone to somehow be electrosensitive, they'd have to be able to absorb more microwave radiation than someone else- but your ability to absorb microwaves isn't some genetic property, it's a function of elemental chemistry. You are not made of things that absorb microwaves terribly well. Water is your best microwave absorber, but you're so thin compared to the wavelength of microwaves (about 2.5") that you're still not going to catch a lot.

Also, a microwave oven isn't simply a thousand times more powerful than your cellphone. The size of the microwave cavity is scaled to the frequency of the magnetron so that it can create a standing wave. This means that there are certain points in the oven which are going to deliver the maximum energy potential for the wave. The whole thing is built to do the best job delivering microwaves to its target. Your cellphone is designed to communicate over long distances.


Yes, but the transparency actually is the worry.

Microwaves do heat up flesh. If you put meat in the microwave, its going to heat up. And human tissue is basically the same thing.

Dielectric heating (which is what microwaves do, and the worry about cell phones) isn't the absorption of microwaves. It occurs as the radiation penetrates and polar molecules move based on the oscillating field. So talking about absorption isn't really addressing the issue. Or, to quote wikipedia:

" In this case, although the heating is accomplished by changing the electric field inside the capacitative cavity at radio-freqency (RF) frequencies, no actual radio waves are either generated or absorbed."

Now, since humans are pretty transparent to microwaves as you have said, the waves penetrate your body and cause internal heating in a way that conductive heating wouldn't. Basically, microwaves are a really good way of heating internal tissue that would normally not be heated so much by other mechanisms.

Now, I'm not saying that we should panic. That evidence just isn't there, as people have pointed out. I'm just saying that there is a reasonable mechanism for cancer (since we know that low level internal heating seems to be correlated with cancer over time), so more study is warranted. Basically, given the amount of cell phone usage nowadays, it would be pretty stupid not to study the effects further, even if there is no reason to worry too much until we have more data.
 
2012-06-16 05:07:03 PM
The U.S. Federal Communications Commission plans to ask whether its standards protect people from mobile-phone radiation, a question it hasn't posed in 15 years, as people use smartphones for longer, more frequent calls texts.
 
2012-06-16 05:30:20 PM

Krazikarl: " In this case, although the heating is accomplished by changing the electric field inside the capacitative cavity at radio-freqency (RF) frequencies, no actual radio waves are either generated or absorbed."


You are mis-reading that horribly. The specific case discussed there is when a capacitor with an alternating electrical field. That's not the case with a microwave, and certainly not the case with a cellular phone. We're talking about an electromagnetic field propagating in free space, not the special case of a field in a capacitor.

How on earth do you think the energy from a radio wave gets into your body to heat it? By being absorbed. Now yes, if you put a human being inside of a very large capacitor, you could heat them up dielectrically without them absorbing radio waves.

Your bog-standard cellular radio is operating at about 1W of power. With the inverse square law in play, it decreases in power very rapidly. Couple that with what absorption occurs, you'll find that the actual delivered power drops very rapidly once you hit the skin.
 
2012-06-16 05:44:38 PM

Krazikarl: Microwaves do heat up flesh.


So does your blood.

So does moving.

So does the furnace in your house.

Now. If it's not going to give you cancer, what is heating your brain 0.01 of a degree going to do to you?

fark ALL. It's within the variance of your own body temperature. The temperature of your body changes more in a day then it could ever change from a cell phone.
 
2012-06-16 05:55:38 PM

t3knomanser: Krazikarl: " In this case, although the heating is accomplished by changing the electric field inside the capacitative cavity at radio-freqency (RF) frequencies, no actual radio waves are either generated or absorbed."

You are mis-reading that horribly. The specific case discussed there is when a capacitor with an alternating electrical field. That's not the case with a microwave, and certainly not the case with a cellular phone. We're talking about an electromagnetic field propagating in free space, not the special case of a field in a capacitor.

How on earth do you think the energy from a radio wave gets into your body to heat it? By being absorbed. Now yes, if you put a human being inside of a very large capacitor, you could heat them up dielectrically without them absorbing radio waves.

Your bog-standard cellular radio is operating at about 1W of power. With the inverse square law in play, it decreases in power very rapidly. Couple that with what absorption occurs, you'll find that the actual delivered power drops very rapidly once you hit the skin.



You need to differentiate between heating because individual photons are being fully absorbed by the material (and therefore deposit their energy) and the case where photons generally pass right through, but might lose some fraction of their energy via dielectric heating. Your previous comments address the former, while the real concern is the latter.

I'm not debating that the radiative power of a cell phone is low, so what is your point? We don't have a good handle on what level of deep tissue heating is potentially harmful and what is perfectly safe, so this type of argument is pointless unless you have some new data to point to. Basically, this is exactly where we need more study, which is my argument. The physics is well understood, its the biology that isn't.
 
2012-06-16 06:05:36 PM

Krazikarl: t3knomanser: Krazikarl: " In this case, although the heating is accomplished by changing the electric field inside the capacitative cavity at radio-freqency (RF) frequencies, no actual radio waves are either generated or absorbed."

You are mis-reading that horribly. The specific case discussed there is when a capacitor with an alternating electrical field. That's not the case with a microwave, and certainly not the case with a cellular phone. We're talking about an electromagnetic field propagating in free space, not the special case of a field in a capacitor.

How on earth do you think the energy from a radio wave gets into your body to heat it? By being absorbed. Now yes, if you put a human being inside of a very large capacitor, you could heat them up dielectrically without them absorbing radio waves.

Your bog-standard cellular radio is operating at about 1W of power. With the inverse square law in play, it decreases in power very rapidly. Couple that with what absorption occurs, you'll find that the actual delivered power drops very rapidly once you hit the skin.


You need to differentiate between heating because individual photons are being fully absorbed by the material (and therefore deposit their energy) and the case where photons generally pass right through, but might lose some fraction of their energy via dielectric heating. Your previous comments address the former, while the real concern is the latter.

I'm not debating that the radiative power of a cell phone is low, so what is your point? We don't have a good handle on what level of deep tissue heating is potentially harmful and what is perfectly safe, so this type of argument is pointless unless you have some new data to point to. Basically, this is exactly where we need more study, which is my argument. The physics is well understood, its the biology that isn't.


The biology is really well understood. The additional heating is so small you couldn't differentiate between that and someone putting on a sweater.
 
2012-06-16 06:06:43 PM

fluffy2097: Krazikarl: Microwaves do heat up flesh.

So does your blood.

So does moving.

So does the furnace in your house.

Now. If it's not going to give you cancer, what is heating your brain 0.01 of a degree going to do to you?

fark ALL. It's within the variance of your own body temperature. The temperature of your body changes more in a day then it could ever change from a cell phone.


I'll quote an article by Sanjay Gupta:

The first person to encourage me to regularly wear an ear piece was Dr. Keith Black. He also is a neurosurgeon, and makes a living removing - you guessed it - brain tumors. Keith has long believed there is a link, and for some time, his was a lonely voice in this discussion. Nowadays, he has loud and prominent voices accompanying him. Ronald Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, sent a memo warning staffers to limit their cell phone use. One of the possible consequences, he says, is an increased risk of brain cancer.

Link

You should go tell those cancer specialists and guys who specialize in brain tumors about your theories. I'm sure that they hadn't considered that.

There have been medical studies published in peer reviewed journals that show that the type of radiation emitted by cell phones had demonstrable biological effects. For example:

Link

An excerpt: The results indicate that microwave radiation can promote neoplastic transformation of NIH/3T3cells.. This type of change has been associated with cancer.

Once again, I'm not claiming that we should panic and freak out. I'm just saying that more study is warranted. You waiving your hands about 1st grade biology doesn't really trump published medical studies or major specialists in cancer and brain tumors.
 
2012-06-16 06:13:08 PM

b2theory: The biology is really well understood. The additional heating is so small you couldn't differentiate between that and someone putting on a sweater.


Most of our knowledge and SAR standards are based off of heating up the whole body. They don't cover regular heating of specific, localized regions. This is much more poorly understood. Just do a good search and you can turn up a number of doctors and papers discussing this.
 
2012-06-16 06:17:29 PM

Krazikarl: b2theory: The biology is really well understood. The additional heating is so small you couldn't differentiate between that and someone putting on a sweater.

Most of our knowledge and SAR standards are based off of heating up the whole body. They don't cover regular heating of specific, localized regions. This is much more poorly understood. Just do a good search and you can turn up a number of doctors and papers discussing this.


"good search" is meant to be "google search".
 
2012-06-16 06:19:57 PM

Krazikarl: fluffy2097: Krazikarl: Microwaves do heat up flesh.

So does your blood.

So does moving.

So does the furnace in your house.

Now. If it's not going to give you cancer, what is heating your brain 0.01 of a degree going to do to you?

fark ALL. It's within the variance of your own body temperature. The temperature of your body changes more in a day then it could ever change from a cell phone.

I'll quote an article by Sanjay Gupta:

The first person to encourage me to regularly wear an ear piece was Dr. Keith Black. He also is a neurosurgeon, and makes a living removing - you guessed it - brain tumors. Keith has long believed there is a link, and for some time, his was a lonely voice in this discussion. Nowadays, he has loud and prominent voices accompanying him. Ronald Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, sent a memo warning staffers to limit their cell phone use. One of the possible consequences, he says, is an increased risk of brain cancer.

Link

You should go tell those cancer specialists and guys who specialize in brain tumors about your theories. I'm sure that they hadn't considered that.

There have been medical studies published in peer reviewed journals that show that the type of radiation emitted by cell phones had demonstrable biological effects. For example:

Link

An excerpt: The results indicate that microwave radiation can promote neoplastic transformation of NIH/3T3cells.. This type of change has been associated with cancer.

Once again, I'm not claiming that we should panic and freak out. I'm just saying that more study is warranted. You waiving your hands about 1st grade biology doesn't really trump published medical studies or major specialists in cancer and brain tumors.


Nice anecdotes. All of the large cohort studies came back negative, including the Interphone studies. Also, there isn't a large increase in cancer looking for a cause. That is the evidence version of STFU.
 
2012-06-16 06:20:41 PM
Krazikarl:

Sanjay Gupta has been accused of everything from gross simplifications to falsifications of evidence and not stating funding links between drugs he pushes and the companies that make them. I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says.
 
2012-06-16 06:26:05 PM

Krazikarl: or major specialists in Cancer and brain tumors

taking money from drug companies to push their cancer medication without disclosing it.
 
2012-06-16 06:27:35 PM

fluffy2097: Krazikarl:

Sanjay Gupta has been accused of everything from gross simplifications to falsifications of evidence and not stating funding links between drugs he pushes and the companies that make them. I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says.


I'm just using his article as a consolidation of information about statements from people about cell phones. For example, if you go to his article, you will find a link to the memo sent out by the guy from the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute that says that cell phones might lead to increased cancer risk. Are you saying that we shouldn't put much stock in him either? Or how about the brain surgeon specializing in tumors. Should we really put more faith in people posting on the Fark forums than him as well?
 
2012-06-16 06:32:57 PM

Krazikarl: I'm just using his article as a consolidation of information about statements from people about cell phones. For example, if you go to his article, you will find a link to the memo sent out by the guy from the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute that says that cell phones might lead to increased cancer risk. Are you saying that we shouldn't put much stock in him either? Or how about the brain surgeon specializing in tumors. Should we really put more faith in people posting on the Fark forums than him as well?



Yes. We should ignore the things the paid industry shill says. Even when he has other paid industry shills saying things for him.
 
2012-06-16 06:34:55 PM
Krazikarl:

Do you believe the MMR vaccine gives you autism?

A reputable doctor said that it did. So it must.
 
2012-06-16 06:35:04 PM
Cell phones and brain tumors: a review including the long-term epidemiologic data

Vini G. Khurana, PhD, FRACSa,b,⁎, Charles Teo, MBBS, FRACSc, Michael Kundi, PhDd,
Lennart Hardell, MD, PhDe, Michael Carlberg, MSce


Background: The debate regarding the health effects of low-intensity electromagnetic radiation
from sources such as power lines, base stations, and cell phones has recently been reignited. In
the present review, the authors attempt to address the following question: is there epidemiologic
evidence for an association between long-term cell phone usage and the risk of developing a brain
tumor? Included with this meta-analysis of the long-term epidemiologic data are a brief overview
of cell phone technology and discussion of laboratory data, biological mechanisms, and brain
tumor incidence.
Methods: In order to be included in the present meta-analysis, studies were required to have met all
of the following criteria: (i) publication in a peer-reviewed journal; (ii) inclusion of participants using
cell phones for ≥10 years (ie, minimum 10-year "latency"); and (iii) incorporation of a "laterality"
analysis of long-term users (ie, analysis of the side of the brain tumor relative to the side of the head
preferred for cell phone usage). This is a meta-analysis incorporating all 11 long-term epidemiologic
studies in this field.
Results: The results indicate that using a cell phone for ≥10 years approximately doubles the risk
of being diagnosed with a brain tumor on the same ("ipsilateral") side of the head as that preferred
for cell phone use. The data achieve statistical significance for glioma and acoustic neuroma but not
for meningioma.
Conclusion: The authors conclude that there is adequate epidemiologic evidence to suggest a link
between prolonged cell phone usage and the development of an ipsilateral brain tumor.
 
2012-06-16 06:35:41 PM

b2theory: Krazikarl: fluffy2097: Krazikarl: Microwaves do heat up flesh.

So does your blood.

So does moving.

So does the furnace in your house.

Now. If it's not going to give you cancer, what is heating your brain 0.01 of a degree going to do to you?

fark ALL. It's within the variance of your own body temperature. The temperature of your body changes more in a day then it could ever change from a cell phone.

I'll quote an article by Sanjay Gupta:

The first person to encourage me to regularly wear an ear piece was Dr. Keith Black. He also is a neurosurgeon, and makes a living removing - you guessed it - brain tumors. Keith has long believed there is a link, and for some time, his was a lonely voice in this discussion. Nowadays, he has loud and prominent voices accompanying him. Ronald Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, sent a memo warning staffers to limit their cell phone use. One of the possible consequences, he says, is an increased risk of brain cancer.

Link

You should go tell those cancer specialists and guys who specialize in brain tumors about your theories. I'm sure that they hadn't considered that.

There have been medical studies published in peer reviewed journals that show that the type of radiation emitted by cell phones had demonstrable biological effects. For example:

Link

An excerpt: The results indicate that microwave radiation can promote neoplastic transformation of NIH/3T3cells.. This type of change has been associated with cancer.

Once again, I'm not claiming that we should panic and freak out. I'm just saying that more study is warranted. You waiving your hands about 1st grade biology doesn't really trump published medical studies or major specialists in cancer and brain tumors.

Nice anecdotes. All of the large cohort studies came back negative, including the Interphone studies. Also, there isn't a large increase in cancer looking for a cause. That is the evidence version of STFU.


Go and read those studies and you will see that they pretty much all say that they don't address long term health effects. After all, cell phones have only been in use for 10-15 years in most parts of the world, so long term effects wouldn't have appeared yet. To quote one major national health organization:

On the basis of current understanding of the relationship between brain cancer and use of mobile phones, including the recently published data from the INTERPHONE study, ARPANSA:

concludes that currently available data do not warrant any general recommendation to limit use of mobile phones in the adult population,

continues to inform those concerned about potential health effects that they may limit their exposure by reducing call time, by making calls where reception is good, by using hands-free devices or speaker options, or by texting; and

recommends that, due to the lack of any data relating to children and long term use of mobile phones, parents encourage their children to limit their exposure by reducing call time, by making calls where reception is good, by using hands-free devices or speaker options, or by texting.


This is a pretty typical take on the results from scientists and doctors, and exactly what I'm arguing. Basically, the scientists are arguing for more study - they can only conclude that cell phones don't cause IMMEDIATE cancer rate increases, but have no data for long term effects. People like you are saying that the case is open and shut already, which is just silly and shortsighted.
 
2012-06-16 06:38:58 PM

Krazikarl: People like you are saying that the case is open and shut already,


I'm saying I've had a cell phone in my pocket next to my balls for over 10 years now.

southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
Still waiting for this to happen to me.
 
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