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(News On 6 Tulsa)   City: "Your yard is overgrown and in code violation" Woman: "I checked before planting and according to the law it isn't. That garden provides my food." City: "We don't care. Send in the mowers"   (newson6.com) divider line 276
    More: Asinine, Tulsa, gardens  
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20916 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2012 at 5:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 02:01:08 PM

Bathia_Mapes: propasaurus: Bathia_Mapes: propasaurus: Yes. I think the reason is that they're assholes.

I concur. She was growing plants & trees for food, and whether or not her neighbors or the city like it, it's legal.

And she took the time to research the appropriate ordinances so she would be in compliance.

Exactly.


Depends how far up the legal system she can afford to go to find a judge that will agree with her. :/

She wouldn't do it, but this would be prime territory for the First Lady to interject.
 
2012-06-16 02:01:12 PM

Mark Ratner: CONFORM! YOU MUST CONFORM!

Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.


Who wouldn't want the house next door? Gardeners always grow more food than they can eat, and they give it to their neighbors. Or they do if their neighbors aren't assholes.

The city cut down fruit and nut trees. They owe her money.
 
2012-06-16 02:05:18 PM

Mark Ratner: Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.


No its not, unless youre trying to sell your house. Otherwise a lower property value means a lower tax bill, i fail to see the problem.
 
2012-06-16 02:06:33 PM
The only reason we grow grass around our house is to keep the soil fertile so that a future garden can be grown. Sue the state monkeys out of existence!
 
2012-06-16 02:07:31 PM

knobmaker: Mark Ratner: CONFORM! YOU MUST CONFORM!

Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.

Who wouldn't want the house next door? Gardeners always grow more food than they can eat, and they give it to their neighbors. Or they do if their neighbors aren't assholes.

The city cut down fruit and nut trees. They owe her money.


A lot of money. Mature trees are expensive. Mature fruit and nut trees even more so.
 
2012-06-16 02:18:01 PM
When they showed up with the mowers she should have called the police, the city was violating a court order. The city is in contempt of court and hopefully that judge has someone's balls.
 
2012-06-16 02:28:05 PM

hbk72777: Ob boy, the bleeding hearts with the thinking skills of a second grader. The world is not black and white, there are no good and bad guys here. Even without HOA's, most towns have ordinances. Over 100 plants, this isn't just a few plants and shrubs around your front porch. This probably took up most of her front yard. Dense foliage is a breeding ground for mice and rats, snakes and other pests. Plus, you're giving them not only a home, but an unlimited source of food. Of course the neighbors are concerned.Mice aren't just going to stay in her yard, they'll go to all of the surrounding homes.

And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,

Link


I wonder if there is something she could buy that would keep those kinds of pests out of her garden?

I wonder if there is such a thing?
 
2012-06-16 02:28:21 PM

rustybender: Now that the city has mowed it down, the appropriate response for her is to never water it and let everything become nice and brown. That should satisfy the neighbors.


I was thinking more like a few dozen gallons of RoundUp and 4am visits to the neighbors lawns. Just gotta figure out which ones


/Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth, a Yard for a Yard.
 
2012-06-16 02:29:06 PM
i'm not a big fan of the racism card, but she should use it. the city and her neighbors are dicks... granted she could have a history with all dem, i dunno, but if she's been all-nicelike da 'hole time, den, yah, stick it to them. call up dem ACLU rightquick.
 
2012-06-16 02:30:14 PM

Smidge204: Mark Ratner: You might be right...but without pics, who knows. I'd like to think the city code enforcement drove by, and agreed with the asshole neighbors.

You mean pics like the ones in TFA?





Kinda shabby looking but it's clearly deliberate and not just wild overgrowth.
=Smidge=


To be fair, those pictures are not available to mobile users.

Thanks for posting them.

/not sarcastic: I am a mobile user
 
2012-06-16 02:32:27 PM
The sad thing is Tulsa has a Green Waste recycling program:

Link

The could have sent a load of wood chip mulch and compost out with the mower jockeys, but helping an old lady spruce up her vegetable and herb garden is Socialism while vandalism and trespass are Freedom.
 
2012-06-16 02:38:33 PM
The part that really made me mad was when she said those plants were her food and medicine, and she just sat in her driveway and cried. Just angers me. Why should someone care if their neighbor's yard is full of blossoming plants?
 
2012-06-16 02:43:53 PM

bel4sucks: This line of defense is scarier than any government oversight. You want to blame the city worker who had a city issued work order. It's not the messenger's job to dictate right and wrong. You gonna take a jail sentence or fines because someone above you farked up on a work order? Cause if you (any everyone else) aren't willing to do that, then stfu.


So your idea is: there should be no consequences for the folks who committed an unlawful act, so long as they work for the city?

I think we've discovered someone who leans on a shovel for the county, folks.
 
2012-06-16 02:44:21 PM
jillsbooks.files.wordpress.com

"My house is me and I am it. My house looks just like all my dreams and I am happy when I am in it."
 
2012-06-16 02:53:28 PM
Street view of the yard in question. Having lived in Tulsa, it would appear to me that this pic is from the middle of the winter, so it's hard to really judge a garden. Also, the sun is back lighting the photo, so it's hard to judge some details. It does show however, that the street side of the yard is being mowed up until it hits the end of the garden space.

Link

The property valuation is ~31k. This is not a super haughty taughty part of town (even if that were an excuse). Her yard isn't that bad the neighbors and city should feel bad.
 
2012-06-16 02:54:10 PM

pinguwin: Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country.

If you don't want you neighbors to have a garden, then move to a f*ckin condo.


If you don't want neighbors with gardens, then move to a f*ckin condo.

If you don't want neighbors with gardens, then move to a f*ckin condo.

If you don't want neighbors with gardens, then move to a f*ckin condo.

If you don't want neighbors with gardens, then move to a f*ckin condo.

IF YOU DON'T WANT NEIGHBORS WITH GARDENS, THEN MOVE TO A F*CKIN CONDO.


/I made a minor change, but I wholeheartedly agree with the original sentiment.
 
2012-06-16 02:55:41 PM
I asked my neighbor if my raised vegetable garden was an issue with him when he was trying to sell his house last year. He said the real estate agents showing the house were actually telling prospective homeowners that the neighbor (me) grew vegetables and would probably offer them some if I grew too many.

My garden consists of four 8'x8' raised beds alongside my driveway, and on the property line between me and that neighbor. Three of them I use for vegetables; the fourth one grows iris from my father in law's beds.

/this year I've got tomatoes, hot peppers, cucumbers, lettuce, broccoli and bell peppers
//already canned 7 pints of dill pickles
///oh, it's all in the front yard
 
2012-06-16 02:57:22 PM

knobmaker: So your idea is: there should be no consequences for the folks who committed an unlawful act, so long as they work for the city?

I think we've discovered someone who leans on a shovel for the county, folks.


Your knee must hurt really bad jerking out like that dumbass. Anyone with any common sense can see you don't take the consequences out on the damn mowers. But hey, keep screaming for the heads of the lowest rung workers that had to go DO the dirty work, versus the ones above them who ordered it done. What happens if the garden is deemed illegal In October? You and others want these guys fired/quitting their jobs/serving jail time/paying fines when a judge hasn't even seen the case. And if it's deemed legal from the city's standpoint, you've just ruined the lives of a few city workers over plants that will grow back, to satisfy your own moral outrage.

And the first one of you to push the "just following orders" bullshiat over the top to include something that was actually violent, just kill yourself instead of bothering to type it.
 
2012-06-16 03:00:42 PM

AbbeySomeone: Keizer_Ghidorah: starlost: in one subdivision my parents lived in years ago someone moved in who never saw dandelions before. this new neighbor loved how they looked and brought someone in to help them not get killed off. of course some other people were mad as hell since must people here consider them weeds and their numbers exploded through the development.

You can make a delicious tea with dandelion leaves.

She mentioned having health issues. Dandelion is one of the best plants for a number of health issues.
Also MarkRatner if you were trolling, well done.


I wasn't trolling. If you read all my posts, I admit I could be wrong because I couldn't see the pics on my mobile, and I was disagreeing with people I usually agree with.

A lot of good points have been made on both sides...the city should not have mowed it all down, until the final court decision was made.

/I wonder about the fruit and nut trees that were mowed down.
//I assume they had just been planted and wouldn't mature for another 10 years.
 
2012-06-16 03:01:05 PM
 
2012-06-16 03:03:03 PM
WATCH THE VIDEO

The video has lots of images of her garden and, my god, it was beautiful. The city is totally in the wrong on this one. Totally.
 
2012-06-16 03:10:08 PM
It should be pointed out that she doesn't exactly live in the best part of town. The area has one of the highest crime rates around. If you look at the Google Street View, you'll see that it's not McMansions, but there are a lot of McCrack houses and McMeth labs.. Average home price in that part of town is around $31K
 
2012-06-16 03:11:30 PM

Flat_Panda: Fifi Le Pew: I read somewhere that America's obsession with lawns is some kind of throwback to what we feel looks wealthy.
Yup, it dates back to rich estates in France, but really didn't take off in America until Better Homes and Garden and Scotts used social pressure to force new yards on us. All the way up to and through WWII people used yards to grow food for themselves and their livestock.

Today yards are design to be endless stream revenue for the lawn industry. Grass is monoculture and preferred varieties are not drought tolerant. (Ever let you grass go brown during a drought. Notice which plants are still green? The so called weeds- there is no money to be made from plants that don't need fertilizer- so the industry declares them "bad')

They require a ridiculous amount of water that rivals many states water use set aside for food crops. Removal of "weeds" like clover remove natural ways to replenish soil nutrients. So chemical are need to feed the lawns which kills the soil setting up the endless cash cycle of fertilizing. In America, more is always better, so people over fertilize leading to run off which cause a host of problem in rivers, lakes, and drinking water. Not letting grass grow out to seed requires having to reseed periodical.

I did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.


Is this online? I'd like to read it.

/No snark.
 
2012-06-16 03:12:05 PM

BafflerMeal: Street view


Should have refreshed before posting and please shut the door when you exit my head.
 
2012-06-16 03:22:15 PM

NFA: Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her,

You are precisely the kind of person I told my real estate agent I wanted to avoid living near. I'm not interested in living near self involved jackasses who aren't happy unless they're meddling in the business of everyone around them.


Yeah God forbid you pay $200k for a home then live next to people who take care of their lawns, that would be farking horrible.
 
2012-06-16 03:30:49 PM

IronOcelot: dstanley: The Why Not Guy: The American obsession with manicured "golf course" lawns is something I'll never understand. I'm not saying neighbors should have to look at overgrown weeds, but what's wrong with a yard planted with wildflowers or well tended vegetables or whatever
plants are native to the area?

*bashes Smart button repeatedly*

*also smashes Smart button*

It's the whole my lawn has to fit in with all other lawns thing. For a nation of individuals we sure do try and make everyone conform as much as possible.


Tocqueville goes on on about tyranny of mass conformity in the US.
 
2012-06-16 03:32:43 PM

GreatGlavinsGhost: did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.

Is this online? I'd like to read it.

/No snark.



I also am interested in reading it.
 
2012-06-16 03:47:50 PM

CrispFlows: GreatGlavinsGhost: did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.

Is this online? I'd like to read it.

/No snark.


I also am interested in reading it.


The long and short of it is, you have another legitimate reason to hate the Scottish.
 
2012-06-16 03:53:52 PM

clyph: bel4sucks: Yeah let's punish the guys making 11 bucks an hour.

"I was only following orders" is not a valid defense.

They're guilty of tresspass.

The person who gave the orders is guilty of deprivation of rights under color of law.

They should all be held accountable.


They followed what looked like reasonable orders, orders like they've done many times in the past. There's no criminal intent, no crime. The problem lies with the guy who gave the orders.
 
2012-06-16 03:58:00 PM
Isn't it terrorism to do damage to crops? Send the entire city government of Tulsa to the gallows.
 
2012-06-16 04:18:22 PM

CrispFlows: GreatGlavinsGhost: did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.

Is this online? I'd like to read it.

/No snark.


I also am interested in reading it.


Ditto.

Can you imagine the founding father's take on this? Who are the arrogant douchenozzles that picked astro turf as the only acceptable view from a front yard? I have two reasons for not planting a garden in my front yard. 1) two modesto ash trees make it too shady, and 2) I live in a shiat neighborhood and there are too many asshats that would help themselves.

I have a huge garden in the backyard, though. Two 10x18' beds of corn, 16 tomato plants, 20 pickling cucumbers, jalapenos, bell peppers, artichokes, blackberries, raspberries, grapes, strawberries, and a big plum tree. I trade with the neighbors for cherries and citrus. If I ever won the lotto, I would get a bunch of property with room for orchards and livestock.

I thought her garden was beautiful, and I hope the city gets hot pokers shoved up their rectums for their display of asshattery.
 
2012-06-16 04:34:49 PM

steamingpile: NFA: Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her,

You are precisely the kind of person I told my real estate agent I wanted to avoid living near. I'm not interested in living near self involved jackasses who aren't happy unless they're meddling in the business of everyone around them.

Yeah God forbid you pay $200k for a home then live next to people who take care of their lawns, that would be farking horrible.


Looked like she was taking care of her lawn just fine. Neighbors were being dickwads over her growing vegetables instead of grass, they need a good swift punch on the throat.
 
2012-06-16 04:38:14 PM
Is there a place we can donate funds or seedlings to her? I'd be pissed as hell if someone mowed down my gardens! :(

/got a 5 foot tall dwarf banana tree on my desk at work
//its like a green indoor patio umbrella
 
2012-06-16 04:46:58 PM
So instead of just sitting here and reading about it, I have the urge to do something for this woman.

Simple solution - I can't help her with her suit or help her take the belt to the city, but I can help her rebuild her edibles garden. I'm going to try and contact the lady that wrote the article and see what I can do about starting a campaign to send this poor lady some sprouts, seedlings, and cuttings to help rebuild her garden.

If it looks like Mrs. Morrison is interested, I'll submit a new link.
 
2012-06-16 04:51:46 PM
I don't understand how the city had the right to go onto her land and cut everything down. That seems a bit excessive, to say the least.
 
2012-06-16 05:11:36 PM

steamingpile: Yeah God forbid you pay $200k for a home then live next to people who take care of their lawns, that would be farking horrible.


I don't care if people take care of their lawns.

I don't want those people telling me how to take care of my lawn.
 
2012-06-16 05:12:23 PM
Morrison finally went to court last week for the citation she got last August at another property. The garden portion of the citation was dismissed and she pleaded no contest to having an inoperable truck in her driveway.

WTF kind of assclown filled city is this?! They dismiss the case against her previous illegal garden. They decimate her legal garden. And she has to plead guilty to parking a farkin' inoperable vehicle in her own driveway?! I wouldn't want to live within 10 miles of that shiathole for fear of contracting a terminal case of the stupids.
 
2012-06-16 05:16:07 PM
Given that this was in Oklahoma, and in my city no less, I'm honestly surprised that she didn't shoot them once they were on her property.
 
2012-06-16 05:29:03 PM
Come to think of it, the city trespassed on her land and stole her property. Those tree and plant belonged to her and the city just outright took them. This should be a criminal matter.

I guess the city would rather this poor woman be living on food-stamps and welfare, being a burden on tax-payers instead of being self-sufficient. Crazy.

I can't stand boring flat lawns. We had a fire in a house on my street a few months back, and its been vacant ever since. Turns out the owners had been mowing the median in front, and now that they're gone that median has just naturally sprouted flowers and tall grasses - it's beautiful. Much nicer that all the flat green dullness that surrounds it.

I hope this poor woman fries somebody's balls for destroying her garden.
 
2012-06-16 06:15:44 PM

7th Son of a 7th Son: Given that this was in Oklahoma, and in my city no less, I'm honestly surprised that she they didn't shoot them her once they were on her property.


FTFY. "She was coming right at us, while we were tearing down her legal, and beautiful, plants!"

Remind me not to move to Tulsa.
 
2012-06-16 06:18:41 PM

Loren: clyph: bel4sucks: Yeah let's punish the guys making 11 bucks an hour.

"I was only following orders" is not a valid defense.

They're guilty of tresspass.

The person who gave the orders is guilty of deprivation of rights under color of law.

They should all be held accountable.

They followed what looked like reasonable orders, orders like they've done many times in the past. There's no criminal intent, no crime. The problem lies with the guy who gave the orders.


It's funny how many people are completely incapable of understanding that "I was just following orders" can still be a defense to orders that are reasonable (e.g. "go cut the grass at this house"), and that it can't be used for following orders that are patently unreasonable (e.g. "go kill the lady at this house").

/lrn2nuance, people!
 
2012-06-16 06:23:12 PM

limboslam: [i486.photobucket.com image 640x434]
I hate the ass-clowns that grow these in their front yards.


OMG, I am having that same problem with our neighbor who parks her trucks on the farking apartment lawn. It's tacky, and thankfully I think management is starting to do something about it.
 
2012-06-16 07:05:05 PM

steamingpile: NFA: Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her,

You are precisely the kind of person I told my real estate agent I wanted to avoid living near. I'm not interested in living near self involved jackasses who aren't happy unless they're meddling in the business of everyone around them.

Yeah God forbid you pay $200k for a home then live next to people who take care of their lawns, that would be farking horrible.


God forbid you pay $200k for a home and not be able to do something you want in your lawn cause some neighbor won't like it.
 
2012-06-16 07:51:56 PM

LordOfThePings: s2s2s2: You know what is driving down property values in America?

A: repercussions from the mortgage crisis


While that is true, consider this. People have protested and protested about the mortgage crisis. There have been marches, internet campaigns, petitions, complaints to elected leaders, and so on. But those who benefit from and who created the mortgage crisis have used every legal trick in the book to protect their interests and keep the mortgage crisis going. The victims of this crisis who have seen their property values drastically fall have ended up feeling helpless against the people who caused the problem.

And what do angry people do when they don't have the power to solve the real cause of their problems? That anger doesn't dissipate. It just gets transferred to somewhere else, and invariably gets used up in petty disputes like the one in this thread.

///Many people who have had had a bad day at work and can't find a way to resolve problems there tend to come home angry and take it out on their family even though their family has nothing to do with the situation that made them feel upset. This situation is kind of similar to my interpretation of what is happening here
 
2012-06-16 07:52:18 PM

hbk72777: Ob boy, the bleeding hearts with the thinking skills of a second grader. The world is not black and white, there are no good and bad guys here. Even without HOA's, most towns have ordinances. Over 100 plants, this isn't just a few plants and shrubs around your front porch. This probably took up most of her front yard. Dense foliage is a breeding ground for mice and rats, snakes and other pests. Plus, you're giving them not only a home, but an unlimited source of food. Of course the neighbors are concerned.Mice aren't just going to stay in her yard, they'll go to all of the surrounding homes.

And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,

Link


There is no such thing as justice, fairness, or decency. Anywhere. Occasionally the illusions of them might come together, like the illusion of the face of Jesus on a piece of toast or the virgin Mary on the mold growing in a bathroom, but they're just random fluctuations that we impose a pattern onto.

The universe - and this includes other people - has no particular inclination whether you live or die. Get used to it.
 
2012-06-16 08:22:54 PM

Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country.


If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to an area where the law says you can do that OH WAIT SHE ALREADY DID THAT.
 
2012-06-16 08:31:49 PM

poot_rootbeer: Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country.

If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to an area where the law says you can do that OH WAIT SHE ALREADY DID THAT.


No one cares.
 
2012-06-16 08:51:07 PM

limboslam: [i486.photobucket.com image 640x434]
I hate the ass-clowns that grow these in their front yards.


If that was my place, and I could plant anything I wanted, there would be pumpkins, corn, beans, and tomatoes.
 
2012-06-16 09:21:00 PM

kiwimoogle84: The part that really made me mad was when she said those plants were her food and medicine, and she just sat in her driveway and cried. Just angers me. Why should someone care if their neighbor's yard is full of blossoming plants?


Because it looks like shiat?
 
2012-06-16 09:54:53 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: kiwimoogle84: The part that really made me mad was when she said those plants were her food and medicine, and she just sat in her driveway and cried. Just angers me. Why should someone care if their neighbor's yard is full of blossoming plants?

Because it looks like shiat?


To you and her asshole neighbors, maybe. To normal people and fellow gardeners it looks fine. Destroying a woman's front yard because dicktwats can't stand seeing something other than what they want to see should be punishable by having a bulldozer driven through their house.

"Sorry, but what you're doing with your property offends me, so I called the city and they're coming to demolish your eyesore tomorrow."
 
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