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(News On 6 Tulsa)   City: "Your yard is overgrown and in code violation" Woman: "I checked before planting and according to the law it isn't. That garden provides my food." City: "We don't care. Send in the mowers"   (newson6.com) divider line 276
    More: Asinine, Tulsa, gardens  
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20915 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2012 at 5:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 08:38:59 AM

ksdanj: I figured this woman was African-American before I ever clicked on the video.

Tulsa is full of racists and that racism permeates city government and the enforcement of city ordinances.


I had a similar response.

Friend of mine was arrested the other day for the crime of being black in public. He was charged with resisting arrest even though A: they had no reason to arrest him to begin with and B: it's clear from the fact that he has no scuff marks or bruises whatsoever that he did not resist in any way.

Love Tulsa...
 
2012-06-16 08:39:53 AM
"And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves"


Or you know, you just don't spray and you start your plants from open pollinated seed and you compost your trimmings and vegetable peelings for fertilizer.
 
2012-06-16 08:42:12 AM

propasaurus: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?

Yes. I think the reason is that they're assholes.


Welcome to civilization. Now stop being different.
 
2012-06-16 08:43:37 AM
Who has more rights over what your yard looks like: you or your neighbors?

The city, apparently.
 
2012-06-16 08:47:40 AM

MBrady: cptjeff: Mark Ratner: quickdraw: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?

CONFORM! YOU MUST CONFORM!

Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.

Property value is an annoying concept dreampt up by assholes who don't see any utility in actually living in a house. See, some of us are crazy enough to think that houses are, first and foremost, places to live. That means putting gardens where we like, letting kids play in our yards (which means your toxic fertilizers can suck it), painting it whatever color pleases us.

Take your property value and shove it. The value of your property doesn't go down when people have a garden. The value of your property goes down when the economy farking collapses.

I hope she files a harassment suit against these "neighbors" and the city.

So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink? Because as you say, it's only the economy that makes property values go down.


I might think it looks ugly, but it's their property. They can decorate how they want. You don't own the view
 
2012-06-16 08:48:04 AM

UltimaCS: As someone with a background in code enforcement, I can tell you that this is plain stupid. The officers overstepped their authority. If they trespassed on that woman's property without a judge's blessing, they could be in a whole lot of trouble.


The lawyers are probably lining up outside her door right now.


Tulsa has a lot of lawyers.
 
2012-06-16 08:56:19 AM

icepriestess: Actually, I'd be more willing to buy a house with a neighbor like that simply because I know that I would be able to to whatever I damn well please with my yard without the HOA or other neighbors bringing out the pitchforks and torches.


Yeah. When we go house hunting, we're going to be looking for things like cars up on blocks (this is the South, they're common). Not that I particularly want to add that particular eyesore to my life, but I'd rather have neighbors with cars on blocks in their yards than a town/HOA/neighbor who keep me from doing anything they think is "unsightly". If they can do what they want in their yards, I can do what I want in my yard.

It's like everything else: the group with the authority to make other people do what you want has the authority to make you do what other people want. Not robbing banks, that's probably a good thing; not growing grass half an inch too long, definitely a bad thing.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-06-16 08:58:52 AM

Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her,


You are precisely the kind of person I told my real estate agent I wanted to avoid living near. I'm not interested in living near self involved jackasses who aren't happy unless they're meddling in the business of everyone around them.
 
2012-06-16 09:01:55 AM
I grow vegetables in my front yard. My neighbors love it. Eventually though the veggies will be replaced by fruit trees.

/Pomegranate, lemon, lime, peaches, oranges, grapefruit, grapes and Japanese plums so far.
 
2012-06-16 09:04:53 AM

hbk72777: Ob boy, the bleeding hearts with the thinking skills of a second grader. The world is not black and white, there are no good and bad guys here. Even without HOA's, most towns have ordinances. Over 100 plants, this isn't just a few plants and shrubs around your front porch. This probably took up most of her front yard. Dense foliage is a breeding ground for mice and rats, snakes and other pests. Plus, you're giving them not only a home, but an unlimited source of food. Of course the neighbors are concerned.Mice aren't just going to stay in her yard, they'll go to all of the surrounding homes.

And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,

Link


So some columnist with the New York Times who tried their hand at a vegetable garden is the source for your cost comparison? Most gardeners do not spend a fortune on tools and sprays. I work hard to help people see that this is not necessary, and that growing your own is economically viable and much healthier. Have you ever seen the produce section in a poor part of town? It looks like the cast offs from the produce section from the wealthier suburbs. And probably is. Not to mention the cost of purchasing this produce as a percentage of their income. This is a large contributor to the fast food/junk food/obesity problem in less affluent areas.
 
2012-06-16 09:06:21 AM
Kinda reminds me of a few years ago when my parents left the house as pictured in the upper row and returned to it looking like in the lower row:

www.clusterfake.net
 
2012-06-16 09:12:30 AM
She probably got bronchitis. Ain't nobody got time for that.

/Step. 1) Go over code enforcement building with fine tooth comb looking for Accessibility violations.
///Step 3) Revenge.
 
2012-06-16 09:13:40 AM

profplump: MBrady: So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink? Because as you say, it's only the economy that makes property values go down.

Many things can make the speculative value of your property go down. Attempting to ban them is not only futile but also often clear violation of the rights of your neighbors. Douchebag neighbors decrease property value, at least in my estimation -- you should be glad no one has tried to kick you out of your home.

If you and people like you would stop trying to control what your neighbors did speculative property values would not be impacted by the state of a neighbor's yard -- the actual pragmatic value of the property is not affected by transient things like the length of your neighbor's grass or where they store their personal property. Alternatively you could just stop worrying about the speculative value of your property -- if you're living there you shouldn't be considering it an investment at all (other than maybe an illiquid repository for your retirement capital), and you'd have to be insane to attempt to speculate with your residence.

/ Also see my previous point about race affecting property values


First of all asshole, I don't live in a HOA. Second, I really don't care about what my neighbors do. If it's illegal, that's another story. As long as they keep their dog and his shiat off my property, and they maintain their house and property decently, I don't care. Third, it's what others perceive as to what the property value of your house, or even the neighborhood is. If someone keeps their house and property well maintained and the other neighbors around him/her have their properties resembling a "typical redneck" backyard, then potential buyers are indeed going to think twice about buying that property.

So no, I don't "try to control what my neighbors do," and no, it's not "an investment, - unless you consider that I have put some money into the house and improved it.

So you wouldn't mind living next to someone with 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink?
 
2012-06-16 09:13:52 AM

Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country.


True story bro: One time I lived in a house were the backyard was unsuitable for gardening.

The only requirement for a front yard garden should be that it's not allowed to go to weeds or die from lack of water.

starlost: the yard looks like heck especially by the side of the house. it looks like she threw seeds around and planted a few plants and walked away without maintaining it. if the plants were in well defined sections the yard would look incredible.


A garden whose primary purpose is to provide food will look like this. When they have to make a choice between production or aesthetics, they chose production. Go check out a local farm sometime. The only reason it looks like an eyesore to you is that you're not used to seeing it.
 
2012-06-16 09:14:38 AM
How can someone not be charged criminally with at least trespass, I'd think this would be vandalism or similar too
 
2012-06-16 09:17:43 AM

doglover: If Americans had any of their original spirit left,


...we'd be slaves forced to build another White House.
 
2012-06-16 09:18:00 AM

icepriestess: MBrady: So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink? Because as you say, it's only the economy that makes property values go down.

I wouldn't mind. Yeah, it sounds tacky and potentially gross, but imagine how spiffy my yard would look by comparison. Actually, I'd be more willing to buy a house with a neighbor like that simply because I know that I would be able to to whatever I damn well please with my yard without the HOA or other neighbors bringing out the pitchforks and torches.

I've had friends who lived in neighborhoods that didn't allow swingsets, clotheslines, certain amounts and heights or trees, etc. I always wondered why they put up with that. I have zero interest in such nonsense.


Agreed. Which is why I do not live in a HOA. About 10 years ago, we were looking at a nice 2 acre property to build a house. Unfortunately, the neighbor next door let his septic system go, and there was raw sewage running into the ground in his property. We decided NO.
 
2012-06-16 09:22:41 AM

hbk72777: And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,


Buy the plants? Um, have you heard of these things called "seeds"? They're this newfangled way to get plants. Y'see, you stick them in the ground, and put water on them, and little plants sprout....

Buy the soil? I have to assume you live somewhere that is completely paved. Your whole yard. For people who don't, soil is what they walk on. It's the ground. You dig a hole in it and install your plant. The one you grew from a seed.

Buy the sprays? Most people who use large amounts of pesticides, though, do so because they want a vegetable equivalent of one of those HOA-approved lawns. If you can endure plants that look like real plants, not plastic plants, pesticides are rarely necessary, and fertilizer is cheap.
 
2012-06-16 09:22:51 AM
I live in a heavily Portuguese/Italian neighbourhood in Toronto. People's postage-stamp front yards are for growing herbs and tomatoes, and for virgin mary shrines. It would probably give the neighbours and city officials in this story aneurisms. Why do Americans hate freedom?
 
2012-06-16 09:24:02 AM

The Voice of Doom: Kinda reminds me of a few years ago when my parents left the house as pictured in the upper row and returned to it looking like in the lower row:

[www.clusterfake.net image 640x480]


Ouch.

I do understand how this happens, though. Someone planted trees that they thought would be perfect little cones around 6 to 8 foot tall, FOREVER. It is hard for many folks to visualize how the mature specimen of a pretty little evergreen purchased at the local hardware store will look and behave. Planting trees and shrubs too close to the house or drive is common, and so sad when the plants have to be cut down or trimmed into ugliness. Happens all the time.
 
2012-06-16 09:25:37 AM

Mark Ratner: quickdraw: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?

CONFORM! YOU MUST CONFORM!

Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.


fark that noise. I would much prefer to live next to someone using their yard that way & would pay accordingly.
 
2012-06-16 09:25:48 AM

Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country.


If you don't want you neighbors to have a garden, then move to a f*ckin condo.
 
2012-06-16 09:28:47 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Mark Ratner: I guess I might be wrong, because I'm disagreeing with people I usually agree with.

Just keep in mind, there are no before pics of her front and backyard. Also, the article is her side of the story because she filed a lawsuit.

There's a before and after shot right there in TFA.


Not on the mobile page.
 
2012-06-16 09:29:14 AM

Fifi Le Pew: hbk72777: Ob boy, the bleeding hearts with the thinking skills of a second grader. The world is not black and white, there are no good and bad guys here. Even without HOA's, most towns have ordinances. Over 100 plants, this isn't just a few plants and shrubs around your front porch. This probably took up most of her front yard. Dense foliage is a breeding ground for mice and rats, snakes and other pests. Plus, you're giving them not only a home, but an unlimited source of food. Of course the neighbors are concerned.Mice aren't just going to stay in her yard, they'll go to all of the surrounding homes.

And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,

Link

So some columnist with the New York Times who tried their hand at a vegetable garden is the source for your cost comparison? Most gardeners do not spend a fortune on tools and sprays. I work hard to help people see that this is not necessary, and that growing your own is economically viable and much healthier. Have you ever seen the produce section in a poor part of town? It looks like the cast offs from the produce section from the wealthier suburbs. And probably is. Not to mention the cost of purchasing this produce as a percentage of their income. This is a large contributor to the fast food/junk food/obesity problem in less affluent areas.


If you start with seeds the cost is even ridiculously lower.

I have a vegetable garden in my back yard and can't even imagine how pissed I would be if this happened to me.
 
2012-06-16 09:29:45 AM

The Why Not Guy: The American obsession with manicured "golf course" lawns is something I'll never understand. I'm not saying neighbors should have to look at overgrown weeds, but what's wrong with a yard planted with wildflowers or well tended vegetables or whatever plants are native to the area?


Exactly.

Where I live, chemical herbicides and insecticides for lawns were banned several years ago. People's lawns aren't so artificially green as they used, many are full of weeds, others have simply been replaced with hardier species such as clover. One of my neighbours even replaced his whole front lawn with a Japanese rock garden. You know what ? nobody cares. No one died, kids and pets can safely play in the front or backyard of any house and the sacrosanct property values are still climbing.

It's 2012. The perfectly manicured front lawn is so 20th century...
 
2012-06-16 09:29:59 AM

Nana's Vibrator: MBrady: cptjeff: Mark Ratner: quickdraw: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone:

Take your property value and shove it. The value of your property doesn't go down when people have a garden. The value of your property goes down when the economy farking collapses.

I hope she files a harassment suit against these "neighbors" and the city.

So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink? Because as you say, it's only the economy that makes property values go down.

You're missing the bigger picture here. If people believe their property value goes down because she's legally growing her food..but her neighbors want that to be illegal... yet the value of their homes decreased by a significantly larger margin in the current state of decline in the economy... why aren't these home owners suing the government to make a decline in the economy illegal and having the housing authority fix it? Why are they bullying one person for a few hundred dollars in property value when the tanked economy robbed them of 25%+ of their property value?
The obvious solution is that if the neighbors don't like it, they pool money and hire somone to displace her garden to a location agreeable to her for the following growing season.


There is a huge difference in perception between someone with a huge garden that looks neat, viable, and is in the backyard; as opposed to an overgrown front and back yard that could potentially attract rats, snakes, ticks and who knows what else.

Why would you sue the government? Shouldn't yo be suing Wall Street? And it would be a class action lawsuit filed by every homeowner in the USA, no?

If the neighbors called to complain about a well kept garden, that's moronic. If they called about an overgrown mess, that's another.
 
2012-06-16 09:38:03 AM
I dunno about this one. I generally think that HOAs are the devil incarnate and hat the city should mind their own business, but it sounds to me like she wanted a big tall garden and is trying to play rules lawyer. She picked plants that COULD be eaten, not necessarily ants she WAS eating. Also, it mentions that she was making her livelihood from this garden... That makes it sounds like a commercial operation to me.
 
2012-06-16 09:38:37 AM

AbbeySomeone: propasaurus: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?

Yes. I think the reason is that they're assholes.

Yep. Who gives a sh*t about their neighbors plants? Mine are loud but don't say jack about my yard.


I have about a 10'X7' garden in my front yard, but all my neighbors say is, "You're garden's looking' good!" I do love my neighborhood!
 
2012-06-16 09:41:26 AM

MBrady: So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink? Because as you say, it's only the economy that makes property values go down.


I like this.... I'm going to take 12 used toilets, put THEM up on blocks, paint THEM pink, then use them for planters. Fark zoning or the neighbors, this will be my artistic, first-amendment protected, free-speechifying statement against big-agra, and nobody, NOBODY, yeah, not even YOU, mister, can stop me fro...gbnxcjdyyswg (thud)
 
2012-06-16 09:43:24 AM
I love my garden, it takes a lot more time and work than a normal yard and should INCREASE the value of the neighborhood as the person caring for it shows that they actually care for stuff and not sit at a couch calling code enforcement every 10 minutes.

Grass in my area is a completely pointless waste of time. Short of being good for sports and cause some people think it's pretty grass is worthless here. We don't live in England anymore, people. Natural prairie grass is fine and livestock like it and the leftovers from vegetable gardens. The grass in my yard requires way more water than some of my edible plants.

Given the choice this is my ideal neighbor. I just hope my city finally decided to allow chicken hens like Denver did last year.
 
2012-06-16 09:44:42 AM
I wish my neighbors were growing mint. Instead they are growing a herd of destructive little vandals who do things like put holes in the privacy fences and graffiti everyone's garage doors. I hate being the 'get off my lawn' neighbor, but when they're throwing softballs and baseballs at every window they can see, it's not just harmless kids playing.

I wish this lady would replace the neighbors from hell.
 
2012-06-16 09:44:52 AM

Mark Ratner: If you want to make your entire front yard a garden, then move to the f*ckin country


Oh THATS why the world is farked.

// Your opinion, change it
/ Or at the very least allow others to have theirs
 
2012-06-16 09:45:45 AM

Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?


The horror, THE HORROR of having to look at a bunch of overgrown plants whenever they looked out the window! How inconsiderate of this woman not to realize she might be offending the subjective tastes of these people.
 
2012-06-16 09:46:42 AM
The worst part is that they cut down her trees. A garden can be replanted (and if any of her neighbors have souls left, they will band together and help her do it). Most trees take years to grow large enough to produce a useful quantity of nuts/fruit. And by the way, most likely the reason for the front yard garden is that the back yard is full of vegetables, which the neighbors would surely find even more unsightly.

A nice picket fence around the front yard would go a long way toward making the place look tidier, but those are probably against code. (Hedges, if they're legal, would block too much sunlight.)

/I had a great edible container garden on my balcony when I lived in CA, but here in TX I can't keep anything alive. Still, I'm not above cutting a bit of rosemary from the landscaping from time to time.
 
2012-06-16 09:46:58 AM

Mark Ratner: quickdraw: Mark Ratner: Bathia_Mapes: AbbeySomeone: I hope she wins.

As do I.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

Fenced in backyard, fine.

The neighbors complained for a reason, don't ya think?

CONFORM! YOU MUST CONFORM!

Property value is kind of a big deal, sorry. Conform in your backyard, please.


You don't actually know what the word "conform" means, do you?
 
2012-06-16 09:50:06 AM

MBrady: So you wouldn't mind living next to someone with 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters, left 3 vehicles up on blocks in the driveway, and painted his house pink?


Nope. I live in a well to do ecliptic neighborhood. You will see a supermarket cart used as a planter in front of a house painted with black stripes on top of pink next to a 900k McMansion. At yet we all manage to get along.

/largely because we don't have asses like you living in our neighborhood
 
2012-06-16 09:51:56 AM

gingerjet: Nope. I live in a well to do ecliptic neighborhood.


Ecliptic? *cue Inigo Montoya*
 
2012-06-16 09:52:46 AM

bmfderek: I have about a 10'X7' garden in my front yard, but all my neighbors say is, "You're garden's looking' good!" I do love my neighborhood!


Honestly despite all the stories about code enforcement of HOAs you see on fark I would assume that this is normal behavior. It's just that neighbors commenting on a garden positively doesn't get printed in the news. Of course I live in the heathen frozen wastes of Canada so YMMV. HOA's are very uncommon in our neck of the woods. There is a house in Halifax the homeowner painted her house in chalkboard paint and the whole neighborhood would write messages on it with caulk that she left out for them. I'm not sure if they are still doing it though.
 
2012-06-16 09:54:55 AM

Egoy3k: bmfderek: I have about a 10'X7' garden in my front yard, but all my neighbors say is, "You're garden's looking' good!" I do love my neighborhood!

Honestly despite all the stories about code enforcement of HOAs you see on fark I would assume that this is normal behavior. It's just that neighbors commenting on a garden positively doesn't get printed in the news. Of course I live in the heathen frozen wastes of Canada so YMMV. HOA's are very uncommon in our neck of the woods. There is a house in Halifax the homeowner painted her house in chalkboard paint and the whole neighborhood would write messages on it with caulk that she left out for them. I'm not sure if they are still doing it though.


Caulk? Shait, that sound pretty permanent.

/I know, you meant chalk. I'm not stupid either.
 
2012-06-16 10:05:02 AM
Fifi Le Pew
Ouch.


Yeah. Thankfully a neighbor called them and told them what had happened or that sight would have hit them completely unprepared.


I do understand how this happens, though.Someone planted trees that they thought would be perfect little cones around 6 to 8 foot tall, FOREVER. It is hard for many folks to visualize how the mature specimen of a pretty little evergreen purchased at the local hardware store will look and behave. Planting trees and shrubs too close to the house or drive is common, and so sad when the plants have to be cut down or trimmed into ugliness. Happens all the time.


In this case though:
The house sits on top of a slightly bent T-section in the road and for the first time in 30 years the driver of a truck carrying logs tried to take a turn at the T instead of carefully passing through it.
Well, FAIL:
www.clusterfake.net

So, since the folks in this rural hill village are practical folks, someone was like:
"Oh shiat. What can we do to avoid this happening again?
Hey, compared to the road, the patch on the other side of that house where those train tracks were 100 years ago is still straight as an arrow.
No corners to negotiate, no confusion which way to go the next time we hire another out-of-towner to drive the truck.
Here, hold my beer, I'll get Cleetus and his bulldozer to clear the shrubbery and make a path wide enough for trucks."
 
2012-06-16 10:07:11 AM
She will lose. Had a neighbor who complained about my flower garden and I had to remove them. The neighbor had a non-compliant fence, but that was just fine. It was grandfathered.
 
2012-06-16 10:11:25 AM
This is an example of how petty, mean an vindictive local government officials can be. Many of you are worried about what the feds might do to you, but what you really need to worry about about is the local code officials and cops.

A few years ago I lived in a suburban town where one of the teachers inherited a large piece of property. He allowed the property to become derelict while he was negotiating a sale with some developers. The property literally reverted to forest, and the house started to lean to one side and looked as if it was going to collapse. Never once did anyone from the town take any action against this teacher. While this property had become a safety and health hazard, the town summonsed an elderly man who was suffering from Parkinson's disease because his grass had gone over 4 inches high.
 
2012-06-16 10:17:51 AM

ksdanj: Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.

I wouldn't have any problem living next door to this woman.


My city has been *encouraging* people to have food gardens in their front yard, so I'm getting a kick

/ours is still in the back
//more sun
 
2012-06-16 10:22:35 AM

Fifi Le Pew: I read somewhere that America's obsession with lawns is some kind of throwback to what we feel looks wealthy.

Yup, it dates back to rich estates in France, but really didn't take off in America until Better Homes and Garden and Scotts used social pressure to force new yards on us. All the way up to and through WWII people used yards to grow food for themselves and their livestock.

Today yards are design to be endless stream revenue for the lawn industry. Grass is monoculture and preferred varieties are not drought tolerant. (Ever let you grass go brown during a drought. Notice which plants are still green? The so called weeds- there is no money to be made from plants that don't need fertilizer- so the industry declares them "bad')

They require a ridiculous amount of water that rivals many states water use set aside for food crops. Removal of "weeds" like clover remove natural ways to replenish soil nutrients. So chemical are need to feed the lawns which kills the soil setting up the endless cash cycle of fertilizing. In America, more is always better, so people over fertilize leading to run off which cause a host of problem in rivers, lakes, and drinking water. Not letting grass grow out to seed requires having to reseed periodical.

I did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.
 
2012-06-16 10:26:11 AM

Worldwalker: hbk72777: And please, it costs a hell of a lot more to garden than to just buy the farking fruit and vegetables. By the time you buy the sprays, soil, plant themselves,

Buy the plants? Um, have you heard of these things called "seeds"? They're this newfangled way to get plants. Y'see, you stick them in the ground, and put water on them, and little plants sprout....

Buy the soil? I have to assume you live somewhere that is completely paved. Your whole yard. For people who don't, soil is what they walk on. It's the ground. You dig a hole in it and install your plant. The one you grew from a seed.

Buy the sprays? Most people who use large amounts of pesticides, though, do so because they want a vegetable equivalent of one of those HOA-approved lawns. If you can endure plants that look like real plants, not plastic plants, pesticides are rarely necessary, and fertilizer is cheap.


This.

If you have all clay or all sand soil you need to amend it before you get going, but even that can be absurdly cheap. We have straight clay, but my city sells compost for pretty damn cheap and this weekend it's free with proof of residency. So we're getting the last of the melons in today. Whee!

Other than that, seeds + two bags of peat mix + recycled trays and pots (free, saved from previous years), fence and wood saved from previous years except maybe $20 worth... yeah, just the freaking peas, lettuce, and chives we've gotten so far have been worth more than we've spent.

/we have a stupid amount of lettuce
 
2012-06-16 10:29:12 AM
Even after watching the video I can't seem to find any good pictures of this garden. Her yard might have genuinely looked awful, I want to get mad at the city officials who acted like jackasses, but when all of the pictures I'm looking at are close ups of a pretty flower and not the greater view of the house, I can't use those as evidence. The only picture backed away more than 7 ft was this one.
kotv.images.worldnow.com
Those plants look sloppy in my mind, and that's just one portion of the house.
And as an afterthought, having an inoperable car on your lawn doesn't help your case either.
 
2012-06-16 10:30:24 AM

Flat_Panda: Fifi Le Pew: I read somewhere that America's obsession with lawns is some kind of throwback to what we feel looks wealthy.
Yup, it dates back to rich estates in France, but really didn't take off in America until Better Homes and Garden and Scotts used social pressure to force new yards on us. All the way up to and through WWII people used yards to grow food for themselves and their livestock.

Today yards are design to be endless stream revenue for the lawn industry. Grass is monoculture and preferred varieties are not drought tolerant. (Ever let you grass go brown during a drought. Notice which plants are still green? The so called weeds- there is no money to be made from plants that don't need fertilizer- so the industry declares them "bad')

They require a ridiculous amount of water that rivals many states water use set aside for food crops. Removal of "weeds" like clover remove natural ways to replenish soil nutrients. So chemical are need to feed the lawns which kills the soil setting up the endless cash cycle of fertilizing. In America, more is always better, so people over fertilize leading to run off which cause a host of problem in rivers, lakes, and drinking water. Not letting grass grow out to seed requires having to reseed periodical.

I did a thesis paper on this, it is amazing how we've all fight so hard to keep the lawn industry rich, instead of following common sense.


===============

Yup. I know someone who ripped out his lawn and covered his yard with decorative stone. The town issued him a summons after the neighbors complained. His lawyer pointed out that there was no town ordinance requiring a grass lawn. The town then passed a ordinance requiring grass lawns. My friend got to keep his stone covered yard because he was grandfathered.
 
2012-06-16 10:33:36 AM
The actual problem: she lives in Tulsa.

Solution: Move.
 
2012-06-16 10:35:11 AM

MBrady:

So you wouldn't mind that next door neighbor put 12 used toilets out in the front yard and used them as planters,


Can we narrow this down a bit? Are we talking just the tanks?

www.toilettanklid.com

Or just the bowls?

farm5.staticflickr.com

Or the whole thing?

i307.photobucket.com

Or some sort of design thing?

2.bp.blogspot.com

Cause there's a lot of possibilities out there.

/all on the first page of the GIS, too
//hot like the peppers in my greenhouse
 
2012-06-16 10:50:07 AM

Mark Ratner: I wouldn't want to live next door to her, if she has these plants in her front yard. It probably looks like shiat.


You know what looks like shiat to me? People with a lawn full of sod just for the sake of having sod. If you have livestock that eats the grass, that's one thing, but using tons of water and fertilizer to feed the grass just looks arrogant and wasteful to me. And then what do people do with their clippings? They throw them away. What a farkin waste of land. Property ownership used to be important because land was used for growing crops that aided themselves and their community. Property ownership these days is largely an arrogant display of "I got mine, now f*ck off!"
 
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