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(MSNBC)   California, the state with the largest death row and where the 3-strikes rule puts people in prison for life for stealing pizza, is about to release that guy from the 70's who took a bus full of children and buried them alive in a quarry   (usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 121
    More: Asinine, California Department of Corrections, California Supreme Court, NBC Bay Area, Livermore, death row, chowchilla  
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14304 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2012 at 3:40 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-16 04:39:32 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And f*ck you, too, my friend.

/have a nice evening



Spoken like a grizzled CA mountain goat.

/Know Georgetown - have had my share of cold ones at Uncle Tom's before the road was paved
//Family lives in Pollock Pines and the surrounding environs
 
2012-06-16 04:40:48 AM
Seriously? fark this guy. You kidnap not just one kid, but a busload of kids and *bury* the whole bus, you are a shiathead of the highest order and deserve life in prison. You tried to cover up your crime by killing children via burying them alive. If it was just kidnapping and a release, sure, let the guy go. He didn't though. Like I stated before, fark this guy.
 
2012-06-16 04:41:50 AM

freetomato: Spoken like a grizzled CA mountain goat.

/Know Georgetown - have had my share of cold ones at Uncle Tom's before the road was paved
//Family lives in Pollock Pines and the surrounding environs


Well, let me know if you get up this way again.

/the first 5 or 6 rounds are on me :)
 
2012-06-16 04:43:10 AM
This is why Fark needs a [Californicated] tag
 
2012-06-16 04:44:44 AM

swahnhennessy: He served his time. If you're the type that thinks anyone who's ever broken a law or pulled a stupid stunt deserves to rot, you can take comfort in knowing that his accomplices are still behind bars. That should be enough masturbation material for you to last at least the rest of the morning.


I bet those 26 kids that may have developed permanent issues from being buried alive might differ from your opinion.
 
2012-06-16 04:44:55 AM

CultureVulture: This is why Fark needs a [Californicated] tag


s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2012-06-16 04:47:36 AM

CasperImproved: swahnhennessy: He served his time. If you're the type that thinks anyone who's ever broken a law or pulled a stupid stunt deserves to rot, you can take comfort in knowing that his accomplices are still behind bars. That should be enough masturbation material for you to last at least the rest of the morning.

I bet those 26 kids that may have developed permanent issues from being buried alive might differ from your opinion.


CasperImproved: swahnhennessy: He served his time. If you're the type that thinks anyone who's ever broken a law or pulled a stupid stunt deserves to rot, you can take comfort in knowing that his accomplices are still behind bars. That should be enough masturbation material for you to last at least the rest of the morning.

I bet those 26 kids that may have developed permanent issues from being buried alive might differ from your opinion.


filmjournal.net

And this is why your children are probably gay.

/just sayin
 
2012-06-16 04:49:07 AM

Rug Doctor: Bucky Katt: Stop trying to drag logic into this. All criminals are scum and should be in jail forever.

If he had been a drug dealer or killed a guy who was nailing his wife, I'd agree with you. But I don't believe the impulse to hurt kids just goes away, even after 36 years. That's a special kind of crazy.


It`s because it is not a mental ilness, it is rational and caused by the fact that kids are just so hateable, you never stop wanting to hurt the little shiats. If parents raised them to be members of society instead of destructive noise machines it would be easier to not want to put them in a mincer.
justwilliam1959.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-16 04:49:10 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: freetomato: Spoken like a grizzled CA mountain goat.

/Know Georgetown - have had my share of cold ones at Uncle Tom's before the road was paved
//Family lives in Pollock Pines and the surrounding environs

Well, let me know if you get up this way again.

/the first 5 or 6 rounds are on me :)


*fist bump* you know it. I'll have to bring some white lightning that my friend way up in the holler makes (boondocks in CA are pretty similar to boondocks in GA in many ways). Out that way at Christmas.

They're still finding bodies in Calaveras? Damn. I need to catch up.
 
2012-06-16 04:50:10 AM

freetomato: MaudlinMutantMollusk: freetomato: I remember that case - I grew up in Sacramento so it was all over the news. If anyone deserved to fry - die painfully in the electric chair, it was Gerald Gallego - another nightmare character from back in the day. At least he died of rectal cancer and I hope it hurt like hell every second. If he'd not gotten sick, Nevada probably would have had him in front of a firing squad for dragging bodies over the state line. Lawrence Singleton also deserved a worse death than he got.

And the East Area Rapist who graduated to murder in Southern California is still out there.....

And if you'd like to go full foam-at-the-mouth, so is the Zodiac Killer. Among others: look at what they're digging up in Calaveras County lately, for just one example. We have no shortage of sick bastards here

/I'm with you on Gallego, though... sometimes there is no doubt about the crime or what the rightful punishment should be

Holy crap, I'd forgotten about Ng in Calaveras. I guess he will die of old age on "death row". As for Zodiac, my uncle was a Vallejo cop who responded to one of the crime scenes. He's haunted to this day by that case. I sent him the link that was here recently about a book being written on the case - turns out he'd been interviewed by the author - Officer Steve Italian-last-name.


CSB

While we're discussing Northern California serial killers, you can't forget:
*Richard Trenton Chase, the Vampire of Sacramento
*Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer (Santa Cruz)
*Herbert Mullin, the Santa Cruz man who killed to prevent earthquakes
*Cary Stayner, the Yosemite Killer
*David Carpenter, the Trailside Killer (Bay Area)
*Wayne Adam Ford, walked into a police station one day and turned himself (and a piece of a woman's breast) in
*The Zebra Killers, a racist murder spree in San Francisco
*Morris Solomon, Jr, the Sacramento Slayer
*Dorothea Puente, Sacramento's killer landlady
*Juan Corona, the Machete Murderer (Yuba City)

And the unsolveds:
*The Santa Rosa Serial Killer
*The Keddie Murders (aka Cabin 28 Murders)
*The Doodler (San Francisco)

This list is by no means exhaustive...
 
2012-06-16 04:51:40 AM

Paris1127: This list is by no means exhaustive...


I'm lucky I got out alive.
 
2012-06-16 04:55:33 AM

Acidicnads: Nobody got hurt and he was scheduled to get out 35 1/2 years ago?\

deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com

Yeah people COULD have got hurt. Just like I COULD of farked (insert generically hot chick here). Any one who says he deserves to die or should be in prison forever is a socially repressed psychopath spewing their psychosis anonymously on the internet moments, minutes, hours, days, months before they eat someones face off.

Big difference between should and would children.

 
2012-06-16 04:57:09 AM

100 Watt Walrus: "the 70's" what, Smitty?


[i.imgur.com image 600x331]

[img707.imageshack.us image 199x239]


It's an accepted usage of an apostrophe according to some styles. 70s or '70s would be better, true, but 70's is not outright incorrect.
 
2012-06-16 04:58:51 AM

CasperImproved: swahnhennessy: He served his time. If you're the type that thinks anyone who's ever broken a law or pulled a stupid stunt deserves to rot, you can take comfort in knowing that his accomplices are still behind bars. That should be enough masturbation material for you to last at least the rest of the morning.

I bet those 26 kids that may have developed permanent issues from being buried alive might differ from your opinion.


They'll get over it.
 
2012-06-16 05:00:40 AM

doglover: ialdabaoth: Bucky Katt: Stop trying to drag logic into this. All criminals are scum and should be in jail forever.

The solution here is to make jail pay for itself.

Turn jails into giant whore houses?

The prisoners get laid, the jails get money, the taxpayers get filthy jail sex.

I think it could be a win/win/herpes solution.


It's a solution I consider every time I watch Lockup late Saturday nights.

/why, yes, I did watch Oz late at night with the lights off.
 
2012-06-16 05:01:58 AM

Paris1127: While we're discussing Northern California serial killers, you can't forget:
*Richard Trenton Chase, the Vampire of Sacramento
*Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer (Santa Cruz)
*Herbert Mullin, the Santa Cruz man who killed to prevent earthquakes
*Cary Stayner, the Yosemite Killer
*David Carpenter, the Trailside Killer (Bay Area)
*Wayne Adam Ford, walked into a police station one day and turned himself (and a piece of a woman's breast) in
*The Zebra Killers, a racist murder spree in San Francisco
*Morris Solomon, Jr, the Sacramento Slayer
*Dorothea Puente, Sacramento's killer landlady
*Juan Corona, the Machete Murderer (Yuba City)

And the unso ...


Met this guy. I dated his cousin.
Yeah... seriously creepy, but nothing that would lead you to think he'd do what he did

Other weird CSB:
I was interning for a computer service company in downtown Sacramento in the early '90s. One day I was standing out in front of the building smoking a cigarette, and this guy walked past kind of looking at the building. We made eye contact... and it was weird. And no, not like sexual... but like an odd recognition or greeting. It stuck in my mind, and I couldn't figure out why.
And then when he got arrested, I realized I had met Ted Kaczynski
/end csb
 
2012-06-16 05:09:21 AM

RoyBatty: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?

Regardless of whether he has reformed or aged to the point where he can be released, it's a very odd characterization of burying a bus with 27 people and a limited air supply leaving the occupants in a hot, dark bus and no way out to call it "a crime in which no one got hurt."

No one was hurt because they escaped. It's not that these guys had any made any attempt to keep the kids and their bus driver in good shape.


AGREED, I hope we will read a story here on how he has been found dead soon after the release. That I would be okay with.
 
2012-06-16 05:17:53 AM
Quick, thaw out Sylvester Stallone!
 
2012-06-16 05:19:02 AM
Ahhhh CA -- where even after trying to kill a busload of kids a man can get a fresh start.

I'm sure he's 100% normal and well adjusted now and will be a perfect functioning member of society. /sarcasm

The same people who are all excited for him to have a second chance are the same people who would just flip the hell out if he moved in next door to them after his release.

"nobody getting hurt" - I'm sure if we ask the victims they wouldn't agree. 36 years of tax payer money has been wasted, when 50 cents worth of ammo and a firing squad would have save untold millions.

Anyone wonder why CA is so financially irresponsible?
 
2012-06-16 05:20:28 AM

freetomato: *fist bump* you know it. I'll have to bring some white lightning that my friend way up in the holler makes (boondocks in CA are pretty similar to boondocks in GA in many ways). Out that way at Christmas.

They're still finding bodies in Calaveras? Damn. I need to catch up.


If you do come out here for Christmas, seriously, it would be my honor to by you a drink and meet a fellow Farker

/Hell, maybe we can fire up a Placerville Fark party :)
//Hangman's is closed, but Liar's Bench would be just as apropos
 
2012-06-16 05:23:54 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Paris1127: While we're discussing Northern California serial killers, you can't forget:
*Richard Trenton Chase, the Vampire of Sacramento
*Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer (Santa Cruz)
*Herbert Mullin, the Santa Cruz man who killed to prevent earthquakes
*Cary Stayner, the Yosemite Killer
*David Carpenter, the Trailside Killer (Bay Area)
*Wayne Adam Ford, walked into a police station one day and turned himself (and a piece of a woman's breast) in
*The Zebra Killers, a racist murder spree in San Francisco
*Morris Solomon, Jr, the Sacramento Slayer
*Dorothea Puente, Sacramento's killer landlady
*Juan Corona, the Machete Murderer (Yuba City)

And the unso ...

Met this guy. I dated his cousin.
Yeah... seriously creepy, but nothing that would lead you to think he'd do what he did

Other weird CSB:
I was interning for a computer service company in downtown Sacramento in the early '90s. One day I was standing out in front of the building smoking a cigarette, and this guy walked past kind of looking at the building. We made eye contact... and it was weird. And no, not like sexual... but like an odd recognition or greeting. It stuck in my mind, and I couldn't figure out why.
And then when he got arrested, I realized I had met Ted Kaczynski
/end csb


Well, at least you didn't date Richard Trenton Chase. NTTAWWT, but I doubt drinking animal organs blended with Coke is worth it. As for the Unabomber, in June '93 he left the woods to mail two bombs, one of which exploded in California (Tiburon), the other in New Jersey. The last bomb he mailed exploded five days after Oklahoma City, April 24, 1995, killing a timber lobbyist in Sacramento. Those were his early 90s bombs. You could very well have seen him after he'd dropped off a package... Or was scouting locations for bombings.
 
2012-06-16 05:30:55 AM

Paris1127: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Paris1127: While we're discussing Northern California serial killers, you can't forget:
*Richard Trenton Chase, the Vampire of Sacramento
*Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer (Santa Cruz)
*Herbert Mullin, the Santa Cruz man who killed to prevent earthquakes
*Cary Stayner, the Yosemite Killer
*David Carpenter, the Trailside Killer (Bay Area)
*Wayne Adam Ford, walked into a police station one day and turned himself (and a piece of a woman's breast) in
*The Zebra Killers, a racist murder spree in San Francisco
*Morris Solomon, Jr, the Sacramento Slayer
*Dorothea Puente, Sacramento's killer landlady
*Juan Corona, the Machete Murderer (Yuba City)

And the unso ...

Met this guy. I dated his cousin.
Yeah... seriously creepy, but nothing that would lead you to think he'd do what he did

Other weird CSB:
I was interning for a computer service company in downtown Sacramento in the early '90s. One day I was standing out in front of the building smoking a cigarette, and this guy walked past kind of looking at the building. We made eye contact... and it was weird. And no, not like sexual... but like an odd recognition or greeting. It stuck in my mind, and I couldn't figure out why.
And then when he got arrested, I realized I had met Ted Kaczynski
/end csb

Well, at least you didn't date Richard Trenton Chase. NTTAWWT, but I doubt drinking animal organs blended with Coke is worth it. As for the Unabomber, in June '93 he left the woods to mail two bombs, one of which exploded in California (Tiburon), the other in New Jersey. The last bomb he mailed exploded five days after Oklahoma City, April 24, 1995, killing a timber lobbyist in Sacramento. Those were his early 90s bombs. You could very well have seen him after he'd dropped off a package... Or was scouting locations for bombings.


I was working on J Street, and one of the places he'd bombed was like 2 blocks away on H or I

/I think it was early in '91. Might have been '92.
//I think the company was AmeriData, or something like that
///had to overwrite some harddrive space
 
2012-06-16 05:40:04 AM
Looking at the dates, I think I saw him during his 6-year hiatus, and before the bomb that was just around the corner from where I worked

/I could be wrong, but I will go to my grave swearing that is the man I made lingering eye contact with

/it left an impression
 
2012-06-16 05:48:13 AM

skyshooter: RoyBatty: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?

Regardless of whether he has reformed or aged to the point where he can be released, it's a very odd characterization of burying a bus with 27 people and a limited air supply leaving the occupants in a hot, dark bus and no way out to call it "a crime in which no one got hurt."

No one was hurt because they escaped. It's not that these guys had any made any attempt to keep the kids and their bus driver in good shape.

AGREED, I hope we will read a story here on how he has been found dead soon after the release. That I would be okay with.



Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?



So just to make it all very ambiguous, it turns out that

"On July 25, 1977, one year and ten days after the crime, the three pled guilty to 27 counts of kidnapping for ransom without inflicting injury.
"

Although the judge disagreed:

"The prosecution argued that injury had been inflicted, and later that year a judge heard testimony from Ed, the children, and various medical professionals. On December 15, 1977, the judge told the accused and the court that he had found "..beyond reasonable doubt that there was bodily harm. I made my finding (based) on the testimony of (three of the) children. I think they are telling the truth. The kidnapping itself was a classic violation of bodily security, and this was an aggravated kidnapping. (These) children were not old enough to endure such treatment....(they) were not told why they were there. They were impressed with the fear they were going to die...(they) were put through an ordeal by terror."
 
2012-06-16 05:52:32 AM
One of the reasons that California's death row has so many people on it is that they almost never actually execute anyone.

It would make sense for them to simply eliminate capital punishment, but for whatever reason that's not politically expedient.
 
2012-06-16 06:03:45 AM

doglover: ialdabaoth: Bucky Katt: Stop trying to drag logic into this. All criminals are scum and should be in jail forever.

The solution here is to make jail pay for itself.

Turn jails into giant whore houses?

The prisoners get laid, the jails get money, the taxpayers get filthy jail sex.

I think it could be a win/win/herpes solution.


No, I think we'd do better if all jails were organ factories.
 
2012-06-16 06:26:40 AM

freetomato: I remember that case - I grew up in Sacramento so it was all over the news. If anyone deserved to fry - die painfully in the electric chair, it was Gerald Gallego - another nightmare character from back in the day. At least he died of rectal cancer and I hope it hurt like hell every second. If he'd not gotten sick, Nevada probably would have had him in front of a firing squad for dragging bodies over the state line. Lawrence Singleton also deserved a worse death than he got.


That's nothing. You should hear about what the guys in Charlie Company did. And they're all walking free today.
 
2012-06-16 07:07:11 AM
The bus driver got a parade and a free dog. Later bought the bus.
Link
 
2012-06-16 07:31:02 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?

I mean, the crime was severe enough to justify every last day of that, and I wouldn't shed tears over him having to stay in jail longer, but if it's deemed he's no longer a threat to society and the courts feel it's appropriate to parole him, I don't see what the big deal is.


I heard a parole board in SC released a guy who attended his parole hearing in restraints and screaming threats. I was told this by a guy who witnessed the guy being removed and saying to a guard "Well I am glad he'll still be in prison". The guard replied "No, he got his probation". I stopped trusting parole boards after that. One of the most peaceful guys I ever met and was trusted by the prisons couldn't get parole 20 years after his crime. Luckily for him he was only sentenced to 30 years and I am sure he is out now.
 
2012-06-16 07:36:19 AM

lack of warmth: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?

I mean, the crime was severe enough to justify every last day of that, and I wouldn't shed tears over him having to stay in jail longer, but if it's deemed he's no longer a threat to society and the courts feel it's appropriate to parole him, I don't see what the big deal is.

I heard a parole board in SC released a guy who attended his parole hearing in restraints and screaming threats. I was told this by a guy who witnessed the guy being removed and saying to a guard "Well I am glad he'll still be in prison". The guard replied "No, he got his probation". I stopped trusting parole boards after that. One of the most peaceful guys I ever met and was trusted by the prisons couldn't get parole 20 years after his crime. Luckily for him he was only sentenced to 30 years and I am sure he is out now.


There is no such thing as justice, fairness, or decency. Anywhere. Occasionally the illusions of them might come together, like the illusion of the face of Jesus on a piece of toast or the virgin Mary on the mold growing in a bathroom, but they're just random fluctuations that we impose a pattern onto.

The universe - and this includes other people - has no particular inclination whether you live or die. Get used to it.
 
2012-06-16 07:59:51 AM
I'm all for him being released. It's a lot easier to carry out vigilante justice when the target isn't safe inside a prison.
 
2012-06-16 09:15:41 AM
I wonder what the psychology reports to the parole board are saying. I wonder if "The victims are feeling guilty as their captures are now in prison" with more psychobabble thrown in. The kids feeling like they should have known better is documented in the links above.

There have been cases were the prisoners health is so bad, its cheaper for the prison to kick them out and let them die on the streets than to babysit them in a hospital.
 
2012-06-16 09:18:20 AM

Linkster: Carlin said it best....

Link


We are less as a society with him gone, he was consistently hilarious for his entire career.
 
2012-06-16 09:21:48 AM
this guy, his two biatches, should have been tested then used as organ donors. toss the rest to a medical teaching environment and call it a day. i view warehousing people for long terms or life as horribly cruel. use them for parts.
 
2012-06-16 09:29:29 AM

the_chief: I hate baseball.


But I hate baseball cards.
 
2012-06-16 09:42:10 AM
Didn't the quarry thing happen on an episode of Monk?
 
2012-06-16 10:02:38 AM
Meh, he probably has a major medical problem and the state doesn't want to pay for it.
 
2012-06-16 10:05:47 AM

KrispyKritter: this guy, his two biatches, should have been tested then used as organ donors. toss the rest to a medical teaching environment and call it a day. i view warehousing people for long terms or life as horribly cruel. use them for parts.


China does. Then again, I don't think we (or anyone) should be emulating them.
 
2012-06-16 10:19:50 AM
If Governor Brown had cut the school bus program to balance the budget in the 1970's, we would even be having this conversation.
 
2012-06-16 10:40:38 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: f Among others: look at what they're digging up in Calaveras County lately, for just one example



tried googling calaveras county. spanish word for skull, something about indian remains. so what exactly are they digging up there lately?
 
2012-06-16 10:45:20 AM
Um, so why not let out one of the guys who "stole a pizza" to make room to keep this psycho locked up?

/Alternativly, let him out but bury him in a school bus and cover it in concrete
 
2012-06-16 10:59:29 AM

NephilimNexus: Quick, thaw out Sylvester Stallone!


took long enough

/Farkers are slipping
 
2012-06-16 11:00:14 AM

danno_to_infinity: MaudlinMutantMollusk: f Among others: look at what they're digging up in Calaveras County lately, for just one example



tried googling calaveras county. spanish word for skull, something about indian remains. so what exactly are they digging up there lately?


Dozens of victims of serial killers Wesley Shermantine and Loren Herzog link
 
2012-06-16 11:07:56 AM
Whether he deserves parole or not, a parole hearing is not supposed to be the time to re-try the original case. The judgment about whether someone should ever be eligible for parole is made when the law is written and the person is sentenced. When the inmate reaches the parole eligibility in his sentence, the question at that point should be whether the person going forward from today would be a law-abiding citizen. A parole hearing that only reviews the original crime and victim impact and uses that as the basis to deny parole without considering the inmate's present developement is the same as not having a parole hearing.
 
2012-06-16 11:14:16 AM
Dayum, I lived in Northern California for 5, 6 years and I didn't realize how many mass serial killers operated in that area of the state.

Maybe because most of that stuff happened in 70's and 80's, before I was in California, I didnt think about it.

I'm thinking most of that weirdness migrated up the 5 to Portland/Seattle/Vancouver areas in later years.
 
2012-06-16 11:57:07 AM

RoyBatty: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So it's not okay to release someone who spent 36 years in prison for a crime in which no one got hurt?

Regardless of whether he has reformed or aged to the point where he can be released, it's a very odd characterization of burying a bus with 27 people and a limited air supply leaving the occupants in a hot, dark bus and no way out to call it "a crime in which no one got hurt."

No one was hurt because they escaped. It's not that these guys had any made any attempt to keep the kids and their bus driver in good shape.


To add to this, I know one of the people that was on that bus. Having your bus buried in the dark with air running out and kids pissing themselves in fear is the stuff that creates PTSD. The guy I know has massive therapy bills he has to pay himself because of these jack-off. Can't get in any sort of vehicle, never flown or driven because he fears being locked in inclosed places. While I'm on the fence about letting this guy go, do not say this was a victimless crime. At least they guy they are releasing got tax-pay rehabilitation. Like most victims, my acquaintance had to foot the bill to put his life back in order himself.
 
2012-06-16 12:05:29 PM
images.starpulse.com
You wanna be released? Well do ya, PUNK???????????!
 
2012-06-16 12:24:01 PM
unrealitymag.com

FTFA: Frank Edward Ray, the school bus driver hailed as a hero for helping lead the children to safety after 16 hours underground, died May 17 at the age of 91 in Chowchilla.

Rock on, deceased hero dude.

I'd rather read this guy's story.
 
2012-06-16 12:27:17 PM
Yeah, I'd say it's a problem that he's being released now.

Nobody got hurt, and he's been in prison for 36 years. That's pretty damn outrageous. He should have been released 20 years ago.
 
2012-06-16 12:54:16 PM

freetomato: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And f*ck you, too, my friend.

/have a nice evening


Spoken like a grizzled CA mountain goat.

/Know Georgetown - have had my share of cold ones at Uncle Tom's before the road was paved
//Family lives in Pollock Pines and the surrounding environs


They paved the road to Uncle Tom's? That takes all the fun out of it!

/aunt and uncle used to live in Quintette
 
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