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(Live5 News Charleston)   Officers tase 80 year old woman for swinging her cane, seriously   (live5news.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, police officers, canes, Ems, police chiefs  
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4591 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2012 at 10:13 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



100 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-06-15 11:48:59 PM  

Enemabag Jones: way south
Indubitably: To be a sheriff is to lead by example every time
Which has nothing to do with whether cops should have tasers.
We are a tool using species. To limit humanity is luddism and to blame an entire class of weapon for the actions of men is simply foolish and unfair to those of us with a functioning common sense gland.
/Anyone who thinks technology is evil should turn off their internet and go join the Amish.


Unless the president (R or D) can at some future date switch all of the police and firemen, I don't see the people holding the weapons changing. Then we need to force the people holding the weapons to justify their decision.

Night sticks are not nice but they leave marks.
Guns are lethal weapons that both people on either end of the barrel should recognize.
And how about a little psych training and martial arts training so 80 year old women don't have to be tased?


True, but my comment was restricted to Tasers.

Whoever posted the fist/baton/dog/etc., is correct, but only insofar as those items can inflict harm. The Taser was intended to be an alternative to a gun, where a fist/baton/dog is meant to be used prior to the deployment of a gun or Taser. Instead, today we see Tasers being used BEFORE or instead of the fist/baton/dog. So even before whacking someone with a nightstick (which leaves marks) and possibly ("possibly") giving it a thought or two, police use the Taser.

In this case, for instance, the cops would probably not have hit an old lady with a fist or a baton, and wouldn't have considered letting the dog go on her. But they had the Taser, and thus didn't have to consider other alternatives. Punching someone, or even a blow with a nightstick is inherently less lethal than using a Taser. (Cf. Rodney King, who survived despite four cops going to town on him) Tasering an old woman might well have killed her on the spot, and they're lucky it didn't.

Also, and I have to say it, a baton or a fist leaves a pretty substantial mark. It's much easier to confirm police brutality if someone got beaten; but Tasers have up till now been seen as less harmful than a punch. It was the ugliness of beatings that led to the search for "less-lethal" ways to control a violent subject, and if used that way, they are certainly preferable to killing someone. But they were never meant to be used to get a crazy old lady off a roof. Why not just go up and carry her down?
 
2012-06-15 11:52:00 PM  
How Granny used to get tased back in the day...

liketelevision.com
 
2012-06-15 11:59:02 PM  

RoyBatty: [www.wearysloth.com image 320x240]

Don't click. Don't click. (nsfw)


You warned me. I clicked anyway. I have the weirdest boner right now.
 
2012-06-15 11:59:57 PM  
Gyrfalcon.

Your may be starting from the tools, I may be starting from the psychological. Either way we appear to agree on most points.

Have a bad day and don't comply with the wrong cop in two seconds, you may be on the wrong side of 'the law'. It may be just an arrest or it may be death. Too many bad apples are in this barrel causing unnecessary problems.
 
2012-06-16 12:07:32 AM  

Silly Jesus: Yes, take away tasers. Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable for 5 seconds when you could just shoot and kill them.

[images.wikia.com image 426x284]


You continue to unimpress.

Guess what?

You'll burn hotly for your disgrace.

;)
 
2012-06-16 12:09:08 AM  

Indubitably: Silly Jesus: Yes, take away tasers. Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable for 5 seconds when you could just shoot and kill them.

[images.wikia.com image 426x284]

You continue to unimpress.

Guess what?

You'll burn hotly for your disgrace.

;)


As if in the core of a star, man.

Ready to be spread as cosmic bits after being fused. Good luck.
 
2012-06-16 12:10:30 AM  
In other news:
wcsc.images.worldnow.com
This man is a complete pussy who can't subdue an 80 year old woman swinging a cane without a TASER.

Apparently the only physical training police get these days is how to pull a trigger. If talking doesn't do it, it's time for the TASER or pistol. Because doing anything more than moving your finger might be tiring.
 
2012-06-16 12:16:43 AM  
Saturn5,
In other news:
This man is a complete pussy who can't subdue an 80 year old woman swinging a cane without a TASER.
Apparently the only physical training police get these days is how to pull a trigger. If talking doesn't do it, it's time for the TASER or pistol. Because doing anything more than moving your finger might be tiring.


Wonderful presentation.

These professional pussies need to be outed to their community so anyplace besides their home, work, or cop-bar they are laughed at as the cowards they really are.

Last time I checked being a cop wasn't even that dangerous, it was like number ten close to construction worker.
 
2012-06-16 12:19:35 AM  
FTA: According to Britt, police and EMS personnel attempted to talk to the woman with negative results.

...She sucked their words into her gaping, denture-less mouth, creating a negative response?
 
2012-06-16 12:42:27 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Gyrfalcon.

Your may be starting from the tools, I may be starting from the psychological. Either way we appear to agree on most points.

Have a bad day and don't comply with the wrong cop in two seconds, you may be on the wrong side of 'the law'. It may be just an arrest or it may be death. Too many bad apples are in this barrel causing unnecessary problems.


No argument there. Also, I'm wondering if the whole barrel isn't rotten: Put in a few good apples and they are going to spoil anyway.
 
2012-06-16 12:44:58 AM  
Almost as terrible as tasing a 7 month pregnant woman in a verbal dispute over a parking space.
 
2012-06-16 12:51:17 AM  
Before, cops would have wrestled her down to ground then taken 6 months paid leave to recuperate a bruised little finger
 
2012-06-16 12:53:51 AM  

RoyBatty: [www.wearysloth.com image 320x240]

Don't click. Don't click. (nsfw)


Tonight's nightmares will be sponsored, in part, by RoyBatty.

/stupid brain
 
2012-06-16 01:02:10 AM  

Porous Horace: Anyone else read that as "Officers taste 80 year old woman"?


She was delicious!
 
2012-06-16 01:02:51 AM  

ScotterOtter: Before, cops would have wrestled her down to ground then taken 6 months paid leave to recuperate a bruised little finger


And so? At least they'd be off the streets.
 
2012-06-16 01:10:28 AM  
But he didn't....
But she was.....
There was a threat of.........

Fark it.

[warning-- ITG detected] I am 100% sure I could have found a way to disarm her without deploying Tomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle. Scuffle, sure. Maybe a bruise? Possibly. Tase-free experience? Yep!
 
2012-06-16 01:14:35 AM  

Mighty Puzz: But he didn't....
But she was.....
There was a threat of.........

Fark it.

[warning-- ITG detected] I am 100% sure I could have found a way to disarm her without deploying Tomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle. Scuffle, sure. Maybe a bruise? Possibly. Tase-free experience? Yep!


Thank you, officer.

Please teach your fellow officers thusly.
 
2012-06-16 01:16:03 AM  
Taser is a proper noun and should be capitalized, subby.
 
2012-06-16 01:33:23 AM  

kellynoel: This is unconscionable. The correct response to this situation is to sit the fark down and wait her out. For fark's sake, you assholes.


eyup

we cant beat them with clubs anymore, so we taze them ...

sigh
did they try sneaking up on her?
one in front distract her, while someone came up behind her a grabbed her arm?

HOW FARKING HARD can it be to handcuff an 80yo???
FFS
 
2012-06-16 02:18:26 AM  
If cops get any dumber, they'll start trying to taze inanimate objects.
 
2012-06-16 02:19:47 AM  
Hell, just nuke her and be done with it.

If a frail old woman with a cane needs a taser, what do they use against actual criminals?
 
2012-06-16 02:33:07 AM  

i48.tinypic.com

 
2012-06-16 02:42:00 AM  
"I don't think it was fair," said neighbor James Brown. "I think they could've handled the situation a little bit better than that. They didn't have to shoot her with the taser gun."
 
2012-06-16 03:01:28 AM  
This is asinine! A naked 80 year old woman? They should have shot her and saved everybody from the horror.
 
2012-06-16 03:35:08 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Notes on when cops are tased for training:

1-They are known to be in good physical condition.
2-Cops tell each other to empty their bowels before it happens, on gym mats with people on either side mind you.

WTF can't a cop take down an 80 year old woman with compliance tools? Are they trying to kill her?

Cops are becoming testlieing little wussies.

/Wait, that cane could have had a sword in it, or broke a cops skull. Were you there?


Could not agree more. And there is this evidence that these particular police officers are probably terrified of shadows and butterflies too.

FTA:


St. George Police Chief Anthony L. Britt said that an officer who tased a nude 80-year-old woman was justified because the woman could have hurt police officers and EMS crews with her metal walking cane which she was swinging at officers.

"We just felt that was the best way to apprehend her and not let her hurt anybody or herself,"


That's right at the beginning. Two references to being afraid of the 80 year old woman. Someone is training these people to be ineffective and overly reliant on tasers.
 
2012-06-16 03:46:51 AM  

browntimmy: If cops get any dumber, they'll start trying to taze inanimate objects.


oi50.tinypic.com
 
2012-06-16 04:05:34 AM  

One Bad Apple: Gyrfalcon: TAKE
TASERS
AWAY
FROM
COPS.

[www.sxc.hu image 247x300]
[shop.turkeyspartymakers.com image 480x487]
[www.los-angeles-injury-lawyer-blog.com image 523x840]
Let us all reflect upon the pre taser methods of "compliance"

/Technology isn't to blame


All of those leave marks and two of them require the office to come into close proximity to the "perp". You lose. And whatever happened to talking people down? Nope. No time for that. Just taze the non-compliant bastards.

Fark you.
 
2012-06-16 04:49:59 AM  
Anyone that feels they can't peacefully subdue a naked 80-year-old anything without tazing them needs to turn in their man card.
 
2012-06-16 05:00:11 AM  

Saturn5: In other news:
[wcsc.images.worldnow.com image 623x434]
This man is a complete pussy who can't subdue an 80 year old woman swinging a cane without a TASER.

Apparently the only physical training police get these days is how to pull a trigger. If talking doesn't do it, it's time for the TASER or pistol. Because doing anything more than moving your finger might be tiring.


Actually... him and two other cops couldn't subdue her without the use of a taser. What does that tell you about the capabilities of that police department?
 
2012-06-16 05:25:31 AM  
'She's in a safe position, just go ahead and tase her so we can prevent anybody from getting hurt.'"

Because when 80 year olds fall, their hips are not at great risk of fracture...

/good way to kill grandma, copper.
 
2012-06-16 06:15:55 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Night sticks are not nice but they leave marks.
Guns are lethal weapons that both people on either end of the barrel should recognize.
And how about a little psych training and martial arts training so 80 year old women don't have to be tased?


dl.dropbox.com
dl.dropbox.com

Electroshock weapons like Tasers do leave marks. They also sprinkle serialized confetti when fired. Its not as easy to cover up the use of one as it might seem.
For knockdown power Tasers are actually better than firearms, sprays, or clubs. They stop your muscles from obeying orders. No amount of PCP can overcome that.
Clubs themselves can still be lethal if used improperly. The same goes for chemical irritants or even measured tranquilizer darts. The human body doesn't take kindly to being shut down.
The fact that Taser international's tools have achieved any kind of reliability doing what they do is pretty impressive, and they will get better as technology marches on.

Having had the displeasure of trying to restrain a flailing mental patient once (the guy couldn't have weighed more than 120 and I'm in the mid 200's) I can see why an officer with a firearm on his person might not want to get into this kind of wrestling match. Yes, even if its an old woman there are risks.

All of that said, tools don't make men. If the kinds of people holding state purchased weapons can't make good decisions then that is a problem that has to be addressed.
A cop can do as much damage with a pen as he can with a taser. If a department is not held accountable for its actions, or is misinformed about its tools or regulations, they are a threat to the community no matter what kind of equipment they have.
 
2012-06-16 06:44:08 AM  
way south,

The fact that Taser international's tools have achieved any kind of reliability doing what they do is pretty impressive, and they will get better as technology marches on.

Carl's Junior appreciates that information.

I can see why an officer with a firearm on his person might not want to get into this kind of wrestling match. Yes, even if its an old woman there are risks.
I wouldn't want to get in a naked wrestling match with a naked old woman quoting bible verses either? But that is the job they signed up for.

Electroshock weapons like Tasers do leave marks. They also sprinkle serialized confetti when fired. Its not as easy to cover up the use of one as it might seem.
Clearly. The overuse of less lethal weapons is what I am talking about. Tasers were supposed to be the safe thing for dealing with drunk and crazy people that don't involve shooting. Instead they are being used as default compliance weapons for officers. I know that each time a baton comes down it leaves a mark, and it is necessarily brutal. Instead the attitude is, a Taser is temporary pain, and can be used casually.

All of that said, tools don't make men. If the kinds of people holding state purchased weapons can't make good decisions then that is a problem that has to be addressed.
A cop can do as much damage with a pen as he can with a taser. If a department is not held accountable for its actions, or is misinformed about its tools or regulations, they are a threat to the community no matter what kind of equipment they have.

Are you saying this is a PR statement from Taser International but you don't endorse the actions of any specific officers or departments?
 
2012-06-16 06:49:08 AM  

One Bad Apple: Gyrfalcon: TAKE
TASERS
AWAY
FROM
COPS.


[www.sxc.hu image 247x300]

[shop.turkeyspartymakers.com image 480x487]

[www.los-angeles-injury-lawyer-blog.com image 523x840]


Let us all reflect upon the pre taser methods of "compliance"

/Technology isn't to blame


I don't think any cop would have beat an 80 year old women. Additionally, Tasers aren't non-lethal weapons, they are "less than lethal" weapons and can kill as surely as a bullet under the right circumstances.

Personally I don't think I could live with being the cop who tasered an old lady without trying other means to subdue her. Seriously? What a joke. But you're right, I don't blame technology. I blame idiot cops.
 
2012-06-16 07:40:21 AM  
While I'm as opposed to cops using tasers or pepper spray to enforce mere compliance of (non-violent) subjects as y'all are, from TFA it sounds like in this case they did everything right. They tried to talk to the woman. When that failed, they tried to physically restrain her.When that failed, they called for a supervisor to come and assess the situation. The supervisor did so, decided that the woman was a danger to the first-responders and ordered the tasing. They had an EMS crew on scene to take care of her afterward. It wasn't a case of a cop reacting emotionally to someone sassing him and using his taser to get even/bully the subject. It's unfortunate that this subject was an old, demented woman, but they used the taser exactly how it was meant to be used IMO.
 
2012-06-16 07:45:20 AM  
They should have told her it was 10 minutes until Matlock comes on. She'd have gone home straightaway.
 
2012-06-16 07:58:41 AM  
This seems reasonable. She's far too old to be a swinger.
 
2012-06-16 08:02:04 AM  

Enemabag Jones: I wouldn't want to get in a naked wrestling match with a naked old woman quoting bible verses either? But that is the job they signed up for.


The job that cops signed up for was to keep the peace, not to offer themselves up as a sacrifice or to jam their boot on everyone's neck.
If we don't trust their judgement, wouldn't you say that is a more serious problem?

I'm pointing out that, despite the flame baiting headline, how to restrain someone is not always a simple decision. Its not like beating her with a baton or using pepperspray would have gotten better press.
If this same officer had been shot with his own gun (something that happens all too often) or taken a blow to the head from that cane, the thread would have been filled with posts from helpful people pointing out that he could have used some martial arts move they saw on TV. Not understanding that a failed grapple or a half dozen men dog-piling on an octogenarian is even less likely to end well.

Enemabag Jones: Tasers were supposed to be the safe thing for dealing with drunk and crazy people that don't involve shooting.


Tasers exist in a new role that is unlike guns and unlike gaining compliance with brute force. Situations where the officer is willing to take a chance on technology. It is less than lethal force and he has to decide if his alternatives are worse than what an electroshock weapon will do.

The way it ended was "messed up" with no serious injuries to the suspect, no officers or medics hurt, and damage to the community mitigated to a few broken windows.
I can see some folks being OK with the outcome even if the method was risky.
 
2012-06-16 08:24:43 AM  
Ride the Lightning !!

she got a taste of Edison's Medicine

Tazers are a less-than-lethal WEAPON.......Did they really need to use a weapon on an 80 yo woman?
 
2012-06-16 08:30:33 AM  

Loren: She would have to be taken down with force, she's less likely to end up with serious injuries if they use the taser.


And maybe these police weren't all that manly.
 
2012-06-16 10:09:22 AM  
 
2012-06-16 10:40:41 AM  

Gyrfalcon: TAKE
TASERS
AWAY
FROM
COPS.

Fun fact: Tasers were never meant to be used for compliance devices. They were meant to be used as an alternative to guns. Yes. Back in the day, people got tired of all the cop-related shootings, and called for a "less-lethal" option to shooting someone who was a danger (read: DANGER) to the police and the public. So the Taser was created to give cops a way to stop someone INSTEAD OF SHOOTING THEM. Obviously, when you're deciding to kill someone, a Taser would be preferable. But if someone's just being obnoxious (read: they wouldn't be shot anyway) the Taser is not and never was intended to be a way to get them to stop being obnoxious.

It could be easily done. After the North Hollywood shootout, cops and the public asked for cops to have more powerful weapons available in case something like that happened again. Today, on any given patrol, there is one or at most two, cops in the area with an AR-15 in the trunk. If it was necessary, that officer could respond with the firepower needed, but if not, it isn't available. So take the Taser away, and make cops have to use something besides alternate-bullet to contain an unruly old lady or a bratty kid.


Reality check: The taser replaces the nightstick, not the gun. The only times a cop might use a taser instead of a gun is if their partner is right there with a gun in case the taser doesn't work.
 
2012-06-16 11:26:40 AM  
Young men get brutalized by the cops all the time for pulling the same crap this lady pulled

I like to see this as a case of true equality
 
2012-06-16 04:52:16 PM  
way south ,
Enemabag Jones: I wouldn't want to get in a naked wrestling match with a naked old woman quoting bible verses either? But that is the job they signed up for.
The job that cops signed up for was to keep the peace, not to offer themselves up as a sacrifice or to jam their boot on everyone's neck.
If we don't trust their judgement, wouldn't you say that is a more serious problem?
I'm pointing out that, despite the flame baiting headline, how to restrain someone is not always a simple decision. Its not like beating her with a baton or using pepperspray would have gotten better press.
If this same officer had been shot with his own gun (something that happens all too often) or taken a blow to the head from that cane, the thread would have been filled with posts from helpful people pointing out that he could have used some martial arts move they saw on TV. Not understanding that a failed grapple or a half dozen men dog-piling on an octogenarian is even less likely to end well.


Why should I trust the judgement of a random officer any more then the angry 80 year old woman? Have 'peace officers' proved to be trustworthy the past few years?

So the best option for the police was to pull the taser on the eighty year old woman? Are they trying to kill her? Once again, tasers are 'less lethal', are they trying to break her hip or literally kill her? There are always other options.

Enemabag Jones: Tasers were supposed to be the safe thing for dealing with drunk and crazy people that don't involve shooting.
Tasers exist in a new role that is unlike guns and unlike gaining compliance with brute force. Situations where the officer is willing to take a chance on technology. It is less than lethal force and he has to decide if his alternatives are worse than what an electroshock weapon will do.
The way it ended was "messed up" with no serious injuries to the suspect, no officers or medics hurt, and damage to the community mitigated to a few broken windows.
I can see some folks being OK with the outcome even if the method was risky.


What if it would have ended up she was killed. Police are being trained to be quick, dumb, and relatively violent in use of force, and ignore other options. I guess you are ok with this. I am not.

I bet you could say that Arab-Americans are a threat to the public welfare and they need to be put in camps for the safety of the country and a good percent of Americans would be ok with this. That does not make it right.
 
2012-06-16 05:46:58 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Next time, she should swing her cane humorously instead of seriously.

FTAShe was non responsive and quoting scriptures from the Bible," Britt said." Britt said.

That's the complaint I hear the most from my guy friends who date really religious women.


You sick fark! You magnificent sick fark!
 
2012-06-16 07:18:27 PM  

Enemabag Jones: way south,

The fact that Taser international's tools have achieved any kind of reliability doing what they do is pretty impressive, and they will get better as technology marches on.
Carl's Junior appreciates that information.

I can see why an officer with a firearm on his person might not want to get into this kind of wrestling match. Yes, even if its an old woman there are risks.
I wouldn't want to get in a naked wrestling match with a naked old woman quoting bible verses either? But that is the job they signed up for.

Electroshock weapons like Tasers do leave marks. They also sprinkle serialized confetti when fired. Its not as easy to cover up the use of one as it might seem.
Clearly. The overuse of less lethal weapons is what I am talking about. Tasers were supposed to be the safe thing for dealing with drunk and crazy people that don't involve shooting. Instead they are being used as default compliance weapons for officers. I know that each time a baton comes down it leaves a mark, and it is necessarily brutal. Instead the attitude is, a Taser is temporary pain, and can be used casually.

All of that said, tools don't make men. If the kinds of people holding state purchased weapons can't make good decisions then that is a problem that has to be addressed.
A cop can do as much damage with a pen as he can with a taser. If a department is not held accountable for its actions, or is misinformed about its tools or regulations, they are a threat to the community no matter what kind of equipment they have.
Are you saying this is a PR statement from Taser International but you don't endorse the actions of any specific officers or departments?


You will join my new Smart People's Party so we can take over the world, right?
 
2012-06-16 09:07:48 PM  

vinniethepoo: ...they tried to physically restrain her.When that failed...


This part is the reason we're laughing/facepalming at the police. And I'll bet you not one of the cops asked themselves, "Wait a sec, what if this elderly lady has a heart condition?"
 
2012-06-16 09:25:56 PM  

Enemabag Jones: What if it would have ended up she was killed. Police are being trained to be quick, dumb, and relatively violent in use of force, and ignore other options. I guess you are ok with this. I am not.


No, you are ok with it too. Because I get the feeling that you don't want to spend millions of dollars on better equipment, hiring smarter people, or giving them time off for Kung-Fu training. You don't see them as professionals who read cop magazines, study past cases, or trade notes at conferences.
I see them as career men who do what they can with what they've been given.

Tasers have been demonstrated to cops, on cops, hundreds of times. They've built up a pretty good record for being reliable in the field. Its a weapon they've come to trust. This cop, with his career in his hands, made a call that resulted in everyone walking away unhurt.
Maybe it wasn't the most glorious day on the job but whatever.

/Sometimes technology works.
 
2012-06-16 09:59:50 PM  
Gyrfalcon,
You will join my new Smart People's Party so we can take over the world, right?


Viva la revolution. Count me in!

way south,
No, you are ok with it too. Because I get the feeling that you don't want to spend millions of dollars on better equipment, hiring smarter people, or giving them time off for Kung-Fu training. You don't see them as professionals who read cop magazines, study past cases, or trade notes at conferences.
I see them as career men who do what they can with what they've been given.


WTF way south?
Kung-Fu training? Or do you mean Gung-Fu training? How about more useful martial arts like krav maga or Jujutsu?
Instead of buying tatical tanks and other quazi-military crowd control equipment they don't need, how about using that for training. How about investing in officer's minds and skills, not just creating this police-industrial complex that dumbs down law enforcement? Note I am not just talking about the police officers here, but management too.

The direction of your law suggestions are more technology dumbing down law enforcement.
 
2012-06-16 10:59:44 PM  

Mr. Breeze: One Bad Apple: Gyrfalcon: TAKE
TASERS
AWAY
FROM
COPS.


[www.sxc.hu image 247x300]

[shop.turkeyspartymakers.com image 480x487]

[www.los-angeles-injury-lawyer-blog.com image 523x840]


Let us all reflect upon the pre taser methods of "compliance"

/Technology isn't to blame

I don't think any cop would have beat an 80 year old women. Additionally, Tasers aren't non-lethal weapons, they are "less than lethal" weapons and can kill as surely as a bullet under the right circumstances.

Personally I don't think I could live with being the cop who tasered an old lady without trying other means to subdue her. Seriously? What a joke. But you're right, I don't blame technology. I blame idiot cops.


FTFY
 
2012-06-17 08:49:28 AM  

Enemabag Jones: The direction of your law suggestions are more technology dumbing down law enforcement.


...But that same technology is what allows you to hire fewer officers with less individual training at a cost savings. Fewer injuries to cops and suspects also saves money.
They like reliable results. We like reliable results. Manhandling people is not reliable.

If Taser has this thing down to where its only failing one in several thousand deployments (compared to well over one in a hundred grappling cases going sour) then you can damn well expect the non-compliant will get their dose of Vitamin A/C on a more regular basis.

Its the cops job to do and they are getting it done within the bounds of our checked and balanced legal system.
There's nothing to be upset about!
 
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