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(The New York Times)   Donate a kidney to someone in need? Well that makes you a fine human being, a great humanitarian and forever after ineligible to get a health insurance policy on the grounds you have "chronic kidney disease"   (well.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 90
    More: Scary, chronic kidney disease  
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9512 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2012 at 2:57 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-06-15 03:06:51 PM  
15 votes:
Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.
2012-06-15 11:52:20 AM  
13 votes:

adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)


Thank you Mitt, now back here in the real world, when Jobs end, and unemployment is paying about 25% of what you used to make, dropping 3-400/mo on a "cheap maj med policy" isn;t much of an option for most people
2012-06-15 12:42:59 PM  
9 votes:
Two words: Single Payer.
2012-06-15 11:57:27 AM  
8 votes:
As a bright person already pointed out, ACA does away with this abusive practice. Thank you, Obamacare
2012-06-15 12:47:01 PM  
6 votes:

Abzzstain: adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)

And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.


Go see a good lawyer about that one, that sounds RIPE to become a sexual discrimination class action lawsuit
2012-06-15 03:02:09 PM  
4 votes:
Health Insurance companies are the One True Cancer.
2012-06-15 03:01:31 PM  
4 votes:
America has the best health care in the world, but only if you can afford it.
2012-06-15 04:27:40 PM  
3 votes:

Allen. The end.: Kee-rist. America, WTF? Actually, it's not "America", it's the lie of free-market capitalism. Flargen and Dingle.


Well, capitalism is fine if you just treat it like a force of nature, like fire. We harness fire for all sorts of productive purposes (heck most of us drive around with a combustion engines all day). But you can't forget how dangerous it is. Without containment capitalism destroys things, just like fire would. Regulation is the key to harnessing any powerful force.

It's funny how people think that regulation diminishes competition. If you look at any sport, they have hundreds of rules, multiple refs and linesman, slo-mo replays, and millions watching, but you can't say that football is less competitive due to those rules and supervisory aspects. On the other hand, people in professional sports STILL get penalties all the time for pushing the limits -- think about it: if a competitive person trained in the rules is willing to break rules in plain sight of refs and cameras, you know it has to be way worse behind closed doors.

To me it is really simple -- capitalism is powerful, it can be harnessed for good, but regulation is a key to that awesomeness otherwise it is simply destructive.
2012-06-15 04:26:39 PM  
3 votes:
I've got to add so many farkers to my ignore list thanks to this thread.

These must be the same farkers that were yelling, "Let him die!" during the Republican debates.

Wow. Just wow.

/ And I'll never forget one farker's comments about those very debates, "Now I know what it was like to live in ancient Rome."
2012-06-15 03:18:30 PM  
3 votes:
Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.
2012-06-15 03:18:23 PM  
3 votes:
Insurance company's exist to make a profit. They do that, to be blunt, by denying claims when possible. Socialize your health care or STFU.
Ant
2012-06-15 03:18:02 PM  
3 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Two words: Single Payer.


That. We're already paying way more than that would cost.
2012-06-15 03:16:33 PM  
3 votes:

504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.


You are aware of who you folks allowed to become your Prime Minister, right? You'll be joining us soon enough..
2012-06-15 12:10:36 PM  
3 votes:
Romneyed in the boobies

/what utter detached, unrealistic bullsjiat
2012-06-15 09:22:31 PM  
2 votes:

Loren: Felgraf: jack21221: My sister's insurance tried to cancel her the night she got shot through the neck, because she had a billing dispute (that was resolved) 3 months prior.

I still don't understand how crap like that isn't considered fraud.

Fraud requires proof of intent. If she hadn't paid it would be legit.


She had paid and the insurance company knew that she had paid. Luckily, we still had the letter from the insurance company which stated that she was up-to-date. They were just hoping that we had not kept that letter. Once we faxed the letter over and let them know that there would be problems if they dropped her, they said everything was fine.

The crappy part is that even with insurance, she's 80k in medical debt, and as a complete quadriplegic, there's no way she'll ever be able to pay that.
2012-06-15 05:39:32 PM  
2 votes:
This article, and this thread, is why insurance executives should be sentenced to death by public beheading.
2012-06-15 04:22:28 PM  
2 votes:

foo monkey: zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.

What was their reason?


First they cancelled my wife because (and this is an exact quote), she had, "had too many operations." Specifically an emergency appendectomy and later the removal of a gall bladder. Then I was diagnosed. Then they dropped us both. The end.

/ P.S. They didn't even send a notice that I was cancelled. When I called them they said they didn't have to.
2012-06-15 03:58:52 PM  
2 votes:

Felgraf: jack21221: My sister's insurance tried to cancel her the night she got shot through the neck, because she had a billing dispute (that was resolved) 3 months prior.

I still don't understand how crap like that isn't considered fraud.


By any reasonable definition it is considered fraud. But this is the U.S.A., where anything that you can do to make a buck, up to and including buying officials to make laws that allow you to do increasingly terrible things to your fellow man, up to and including killing them or dooming them to a life of crime/poverty/disease/etc, is considered good business practice and half the country cheerleads it, even though they are the ones who suffer as a result.
2012-06-15 03:57:17 PM  
2 votes:

FarkedOver: Destroy medical insurance companies. They serve no purpose.


Nobody NEEDS insurance: what we need is healthcare.
2012-06-15 03:37:06 PM  
2 votes:
Nationalize the medical system

Draft all the doctors.

Now.
2012-06-15 03:36:42 PM  
2 votes:
Seriously though, I just don't know how anyone can defend the concept of for-profit healthcare.

If someone has cancer, your Weeners should be "How can we help them" not "What is this going to cost".
2012-06-15 03:36:36 PM  
2 votes:

adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)


It depends on what state you live in. HIPAA does *NOT* apply when converting to an individual policy although some states have put in such rules on their own.

cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"


Yup. One of the things he really got right.

Abzzstain: cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"

But only if you've been without coverage for at least six months. And they are still very expensive, but better than nothing.


I can see no reason for the 6 month rule. It should go.

Abzzstain: And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.


Are they on LSD or something? Asthma I can understand but being of child bearing age???

I wouldn't call it terribly expensive. I pay about what I would with an individual policy--it's only terribly expensive in comparison to the employer-subsidized coverage that is what most people are used to.

vpb: Of course, if you get sick, you will be stuck with that "cheap" policy until the law preventing denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions goes into effect, if ever.


It's worse than that--your "cheap" policy will cease being cheap after a while. It's a racket: Look carefully at the rules on rate increases. They can only increase the rates the same for all like customers in the state--but like customers are those who bought *THAT* policy. After a few years they quit selling it and sell something else instead--thereby getting a new pool of customers. Meanwhile the people in the old group start getting sick and the rates start going up. The healthy quickly leave (as they can buy the new version that's still cheap) and so you have a pool of only the sick. The rates go through the roof and soon the old policy is gone.

FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.


The problem is that that's not what happens. The donors live normal lives. The kidney function test comes back showing a bit of trouble but that's only in relation to baseline--a kidney donor has half the filtration of a normal person, the levels of the stuff they filter is a bit higher than normal because of this. However, since this is due to half capacity rather than half-failed kidneys that doesn't mean it will get worse with time.
2012-06-15 03:29:13 PM  
2 votes:
Good to see that private health insurance is working out so well for yet another American.

/Canada
//Snicker
///You guys are suckers
2012-06-15 03:25:22 PM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"


Not yet.

Reform delayed for 4 years - effective January 1, 2014

Individual and group health insurance plans
Pre-existing condition exclusions prohibited in all health insurance plans
2012-06-15 03:24:07 PM  
2 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


Wow, and people wonder why we have stories like that one dude who flew his plane into that IRS building a couple years ago. I'd go batshiat insane if someone burned me that bad.
2012-06-15 03:22:50 PM  
2 votes:

jack21221: My sister's insurance tried to cancel her the night she got shot through the neck, because she had a billing dispute (that was resolved) 3 months prior.


I still don't understand how crap like that isn't considered fraud.
2012-06-15 03:22:06 PM  
2 votes:

hitlersbrain: FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.

Insurance companies exist to make a profit, not care for people. Welcome to the land of retards.


Then perhaps they should not be involved in a good that everyone, at some point, is going to need, since they may very well be forced to resort to borderline fraud to actually make a profit?
2012-06-15 03:12:16 PM  
2 votes:

504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.


Can I apply for political asylum on the grounds that the government is trying to kill me financially because I can't afford health insurance? ;)


/one major health issue away from bankruptcy
//thankfully, at least, the kids have Medicaid
2012-06-15 03:06:17 PM  
2 votes:

FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.


Insurance companies exist to make a profit, not care for people. Welcome to the land of retards.
2012-06-15 03:06:01 PM  
2 votes:
no good deed goes unpunished.
2012-06-15 02:59:19 PM  
2 votes:
America is all about no second chances.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-15 01:08:28 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: Abzzstain: adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)

And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.

Go see a good lawyer about that one, that sounds RIPE to become a sexual discrimination class action lawsuit


Yeah, good luck with that.
2012-06-15 12:28:33 PM  
2 votes:

adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)


And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.
2012-06-15 11:55:52 AM  
2 votes:

adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.


Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"
MrT
2012-06-15 09:59:51 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: Go see a good lawyer about that one, that sounds RIPE to become a sexual discrimination class action lawsuit


It's not discrimination because they also have a policy of rejecting men when they reach an age at which they can bear children.
2012-06-15 09:49:28 PM  
1 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


Maybe I fail to understand the insurance system, but how is that legal? You qualified for them for years, paid them, and when you would need them then they just refuse to do anything. How is that not some type of fraud?

/But, hey, Obamacare will lead to doctorless death panels
//Right?
2012-06-15 08:22:18 PM  
1 votes:

504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.


It boggles the mind that the most powerful nation on earth not only is the "Darwinist madhouse" you describe (at least when it comes to health care), but the majority living here goes poo-flinging insane when you suggest that maybe Canada has the right idea. "Embarrassing" doesn't even begin to describe it.
2012-06-15 08:05:48 PM  
1 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


They canceled mine when the payment came in one day late. They also slowly upped it damn near monthly and sent the statement maybe 3 days before it was due.

I have preexisting stuffnut I signed up w them within 4 months of previous insurance lapsing... they found a way to kick me off.

/employer insurance now
//not terribly happy w the job but insurance I need
2012-06-15 07:35:29 PM  
1 votes:

Loren:
Did you check if they really could do that? I strongly doubt it was legal.


It doesn't really matter. He will have to spend money to hire a lawyer and wait years to find out. He may not have the money or the time.
2012-06-15 06:53:35 PM  
1 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


Cancelled on what basis?

Felgraf: jack21221: My sister's insurance tried to cancel her the night she got shot through the neck, because she had a billing dispute (that was resolved) 3 months prior.

I still don't understand how crap like that isn't considered fraud.


Fraud requires proof of intent. If she hadn't paid it would be legit.

lennavan: cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"

Not yet.

Reform delayed for 4 years - effective January 1, 2014

Individual and group health insurance plans
Pre-existing condition exclusions prohibited in all health insurance plans


The PCIP exists, although you can only apply once you've been uninsured 6 months and won't qualify for normal-rate individual insurance.

zetar: foo monkey: zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.

What was their reason?

First they cancelled my wife because (and this is an exact quote), she had, "had too many operations." Specifically an emergency appendectomy and later the removal of a gall bladder. Then I was diagnosed. Then they dropped us both. The end.

/ P.S. They didn't even send a notice that I was cancelled. When I called them they said they didn't have to.


Did you check if they really could do that? I strongly doubt it was legal.

504_King_streetcar: You've hit on the one flaw in an otherwise damn fine system. Wait times are in the hyperbole range. I know a guy who waited years for hip surgery and ground his hips to nubs in the meantime. On the other hand I have been a frequent user of the system due to faulty kidneys and have never had any serious wait times. It is an issue but it varies in severity. It's still a step up from the US system where you can get timely care for about what you'd pay for a house in one of the less popular regions.

/mom was in hospital for cancer diagnosis in US
//48 hours cost $11,000
///insurance tried to worm out of paying because evil is profitable


Our system gives good care to most and screws some. Your system gives very late care to anyone with a costly but non-emergency problem. From what I've heard that includes cancer.

over_and_done: This article, and this thread, is why insurance executives should be sentenced to death by public beheading.


No. The problem is that any insurance executive who doesn't take the harsh approach ends up bankrupt.

The fix has to come from Washington.
Ant
2012-06-15 06:45:31 PM  
1 votes:

ansius: Well Francis, the cost savings from introducing a single payer system means your health payments will go down, AND the poor will be covered.


That just shows how much they hate the thought of poor people with health coverage. They're willing to pay more to prevent it happening.
2012-06-15 06:32:53 PM  
1 votes:
Magorn:
The word for the day is "rescission" as in "rescission Committes" which are standing units of every major Insurance company that comb through policies of anyone who is costing them signifncant amounts of money and look for reasons to retroactively cancel thier policies for any slip-up or irregularity in the paperwork, no matter how minor.

Now if that isn't a working definition of evil, or at the very least, soulless, I don't know what is


Simply amoral, and to be expected from a capitalist entity that is obliged to abide by laws but not ethics (and even that only so long as obeying the law costs less than breaking it, which it often does not).

What we see as evil, ie. the disregard of human consequences and suffering from one's actions, is INTEGRAL to corporate capitalism as we know it. Regulation can curb it, but it is the inevitable nature of corporations. Your neighbourhood bodega owner may conduct business this way, but corporations always will do it. The modern capitalist model is inherently a force for harm and "evil" in the world.
2012-06-15 06:26:39 PM  
1 votes:
I don't see the problem here. If he'd done the responsible, conservative thing and let his daughter die, his premium wouldn't have gone up. Liberals need to learn that actions have consequences.
2012-06-15 06:22:46 PM  
1 votes:

FizixJunkee: 504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.

Do you guys need physicists up there? I'm thinking about trying for Canadian citizenship once I've finished my PhD...

\I speak French, too


Highly educated + French & English fluency get you big points for immigration to Canada.
2012-06-15 06:16:32 PM  
1 votes:

504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.


Do you guys need physicists up there? I'm thinking about trying for Canadian citizenship once I've finished my PhD...

\I speak French, too
2012-06-15 06:12:44 PM  
1 votes:

Abzzstain: They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.


Yeah, it's a little tougher to get health insurance when you're a woman of child-bearing age. When I was looking at policies that covered pregnancy (and anything related to pregnancy, like post-natal check-ups...not for the kid, but for myself), I was getting quotes of around $700/month.

I did end up with a high-deductible policy with a gazillion riders on it; of course, it explicitly stated it would not cover any pregnancy-related medical issues, even if the issues were incidental. It was bare-bones coverage at best, and cost over $100/month.

\the policy also wouldn't cover anything related to the urinary tract like UTIs
\\UTIs are the number one reason young women go to the doctor
2012-06-15 05:55:44 PM  
1 votes:

DVDave: 504_King_streetcar: DVDave: 504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.

Come back here in six months after you were finally able to get your doctor visit scheduled.

/Also, this thread makes me have to pee.

You've hit on the one flaw in an otherwise damn fine system. Wait times are in the hyperbole range. I know a guy who waited years for hip surgery and ground his hips to nubs in the meantime. On the other hand I have been a frequent user of the system due to faulty kidneys and have never had any serious wait times. It is an issue but it varies in severity. It's still a step up from the US system where you can get timely care for about what you'd pay for a house in one of the less popular regions.

/mom was in hospital for cancer diagnosis in US
//48 hours cost $11,000
///insurance tried to worm out of paying because evil is profitable

Got to be friends with some Newfies who moved down here to Phoenix last year. That's where I picked it up - they said it was great coverage for everybody, but the wait times were atrocious.

/Sorry if I sounded snarky on Weeners


No worries. It's a valid point, but mitigated somewhat by the fact that there are areas where it's less of an issue. The care I have gotten here in Ontario has been first rate and timely to boot. If I lived in the US I'd be beyond bankrupt.
2012-06-15 05:52:39 PM  
1 votes:
We really need one of two things in this country:

Either we need single-payer, government-funded healthcare, or we need to abolish the FDA, abolish medicare/social security/food stamps, make unemployment a federal offense punishable by death, and allow prisons to buy and sell prisoners' organs and tissue on the open market.

If we want to be serious about free-market solutions, let's see us be farking serious about free-market solutions.
2012-06-15 05:38:19 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"


*sigh* not till 2014, unfortunately.

I have to hope I don't get sick between now and then...
2012-06-15 05:05:57 PM  
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: Oh, And I want to make clear that I am not defending the HMOs, I'm just pointing out the deal. For profit companies are FOR PROFIT. Period. Without regulation they will do whatever it takes to increase profit, like deny coverage to high risk people.


Which is why we need to take them out of the equation. There will always be problems with any healthcare system, and there will always be people who will abuse ANY system, but I think at the very least, a single payer system provides healthcare for more people at a lower cost.
2012-06-15 04:56:22 PM  
1 votes:
A 10/10 Troll-in-One! Go team!
2012-06-15 04:53:13 PM  
1 votes:

FarkedOver: GhettoWinter: These threads/stories are not good for my blood pressure.

Preexisting condition. Insurance denied. Please die.


This is sadly not even a joke. For profit health insurance is one of the top 5 saddest things about the state of this country.
2012-06-15 04:41:02 PM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Two words: Single Payer.


+eleventy
2012-06-15 04:40:09 PM  
1 votes:

ringersol: adiabat: "Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse."

Sounds to me like you've been lucky enough that life hasn't taught you how the insurance system actually works.

Suffice to say: if everyone always had the opportunity to pay for insurance and it only lapsed because they chose to allow it, we wouldn't be talking about healthcare reform.
The nonsense you just spouted only really applies to people who've never had to *use* their insurance.


The word for the day is "rescission" as in "rescission Committes" which are standing units of every major Insurance company that comb through policies of anyone who is costing them signifncant amounts of money and look for reasons to retroactively cancel thier policies for any slip-up or irregularity in the paperwork, no matter how minor.

Now if that isn't a working definition of evil, or at the very least, soulless, I don't know what is
2012-06-15 04:31:18 PM  
1 votes:

GhettoWinter: These threads/stories are not good for my blood pressure.


Preexisting condition. Insurance denied. Please die.
2012-06-15 04:27:47 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: Serious Black: Calling it fraud outright is a huge stretch, but if you think it's morally just to treat being a live organ donor as a pre-existing condition, you're a wretched monster.

You can make him the president of the Feel Good Fan Club all day long, but that means everyone else has to pay higher premiums because of what he did? If missing a kidney is bad, then yeah, why the hell wouldn't it be a pre-existing condition? The article does seem to be saying that only having one kidney isn't really that bad. If that is the case, then yeah, it's wrong. But I could give a rat's ass about the sentimentality and emotion of the situation. He made a decision that benefited himself and wants us to help shoulder the burden.


There's so very much wrong with your statements, but I'll sum it up by saying just wait until you're on the chopping block.

We'll see what tune you sing then.
2012-06-15 04:27:16 PM  
1 votes:

Crocoduck: I donated a kidney thinking that it very well may shorten my life, but who cares? My buddy needed it so that he could live.

It's been five years since the kidney procedure, which took place at Stanford Hospital for what it's worth, and there have been zero drawbacks or complications so far. Save that it might screw me with insurance policies, I suppose.



You are a good man. I'd do it for family and VERY close friends, but that's it.


/Best friend donated portion of his liver to a guy who went right back on drugs months later
2012-06-15 04:20:03 PM  
1 votes:
Kee-rist. America, WTF? Actually, it's not "America", it's the lie of free-market capitalism. Flargen and Dingle.
2012-06-15 04:16:14 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, And I want to make clear that I am not defending the HMOs, I'm just pointing out the deal. For profit companies are FOR PROFIT. Period. Without regulation they will do whatever it takes to increase profit, like deny coverage to high risk people.
2012-06-15 04:14:29 PM  
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.


This is why fully private insurance is a stupid concept and other countries have gone to government insurance, at least to cover the minimum. Insurance shouldn't be making money for anyone, it is supposed to just be a pool of money that spreads risk.

It's like when people say "I don't want to pay for other people's illnesses" -- well actually that is the whole point of insurance -- most people are paying for other people, but you accept that because you might one day be "the other people".

To put it another way -- it isn't insurance if you paid exactly according to your risk. If high risk people pay more, then that is counter to the whole concept.

Anyway, there's been thousands of years of societies that don't provide a minimum safety net, and you can see this still in many places in the world. It really isn't cool to have all your sick people living on the streets. And especially isn't cool if you become one of them.
2012-06-15 04:14:09 PM  
1 votes:
www.biography.com


"Our aim is not to do away with corporations but endeavoring to do away with any evil in them. We are not hostile to them; we are merely determined that they shall be so handled as to subserve the public good. We draw the line against misconduct, not against wealth. "
2012-06-15 04:13:25 PM  
1 votes:
How the fark you guys continue to let yourselves get reamed by your health system is beyond me.

One of the biggest arguments I hear out of the US against setting up a single payer/ national health system is that the wealthy people don't want to pay for the poor's coverage.

Well Francis, the cost savings from introducing a single payer system means your health payments will go down, AND the poor will be covered.

Just look at how much the average German pays for their health coverage per annum at the different tiers of income, and you'll see you'll still be ahead financially, and the moral problem of having your neighbours bankrupted by medical bills or dying because they can't afford medicine will be off your hands.

have a look at this for more details on the social insurance health system model:

link link
2012-06-15 04:07:16 PM  
1 votes:
I currently have one kidney - lost one of them in an accident when I was 19 years old. I do have health insurance, which I pay for as an individual, but I had to sign a rider that basically says that if anything even slightly related to my kidney ever causes an issue that I have no insurance coverage for that issue whatsoever. The problem is that as long as insurance is run as a for-profit business there is simply no sane business argument that could ever be made for a company to offer me anything better than what I have. I have family members that are in the "the free market will correct all wrongs" camp and every time I ask them to make a business argument that would provide basic insurance coverage for someone in my position the best they can come up with is - "Well, you had an accident as a teenager and thus should be required to pay thousands of dollars per month for a condition that has so far had no impact on your health or quality of life." Or my personal favorite - "If there's a market out there for people with pre-existing conditions that want insurance coverage then if only the evil government would get off the backs of the insurance companies eventually someone would start up a separate company to serve that market". Yeah, a for-profit company designed to serve people with pre-existing conditions - there's an amusing fantasy.
2012-06-15 04:06:17 PM  
1 votes:
Serious Black:
stonicus: Serious Black: Calling it fraud outright is a huge stretch, but if you think it's morally just to treat being a live organ donor as a pre-existing condition, you're a wretched monster.

You can make him the president of the Feel Good Fan Club all day long, but that means everyone else has to pay higher premiums because of what he did? If missing a kidney is bad, then yeah, why the hell wouldn't it be a pre-existing condition? The article does seem to be saying that only having one kidney isn't really that bad. If that is the case, then yeah, it's wrong. But I could give a rat's ass about the sentimentality and emotion of the situation. He made a decision that benefited himself and wants us to help shoulder the burden.

Seriously? You're going to say the decision to give somebody whose kidneys were failing was something that merely benefited himself? I'm done talking with you.


Well, I'm sure that watching his child NOT die was greatly enjoyable for him. He really just did it for his own gratification. It's the equivalent of some welfare mom using her food stamps to buy a book just so she could read for pleasure. I ain't paying for that shiat.
2012-06-15 04:00:40 PM  
1 votes:
geoduck42:
504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.

You are aware of who you folks allowed to become your Prime Minister, right? You'll be joining us soon enough..


Harper will go full retard with his majority gov't (it's already happening) and provide loads of material for the other parties to paint him and his whole party in a very bad light in the next election. They will have a very hard time holding power.

The worry is the damage he will do in the meantime. Harper is really, really gunning to trash our environmental laws. That seems to be priority #1. Medicare doesn't seem to be on the Cons' hitlist for the time being; it's actually good for business to have a healthy population. Plus, killing or crippling Medicare would make Canadians VERY unhappy, since most of us have had an "expensive" medical episode of one kind or another in our lives, and benefited greatly from the system here.
2012-06-15 03:56:52 PM  
1 votes:
adiabat: "Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse."

Sounds to me like you've been lucky enough that life hasn't taught you how the insurance system actually works.

Suffice to say: if everyone always had the opportunity to pay for insurance and it only lapsed because they chose to allow it, we wouldn't be talking about healthcare reform.
The nonsense you just spouted only really applies to people who've never had to *use* their insurance.
2012-06-15 03:56:48 PM  
1 votes:
This happened to my mother. Humana: cravenly mercantile scum of the earth.
2012-06-15 03:56:41 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: Felgraf: hitlersbrain: FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.

Insurance companies exist to make a profit, not care for people. Welcome to the land of retards.

Then perhaps they should not be involved in a good that everyone, at some point, is going to need, since they may very well be forced to resort to borderline fraud to actually make a profit?

How is it fraud? They looked at the numbers and decided "we'll spend more on you than we will make, so no, you can't haz insurance". Nothing is stopping him from paying the doctor himself. Giving the kidney was nice, but did he also give up half of his brain? How could he not have researched this ahead of time? Now, if he did, and they said "cool",. but now they are saying "not cool", then that is different.


The way they try to kick people off insurance/outright refuse to pay claims/claim they 'never got the claim' (despite it being filed three times by the dentists office and once by me), the instant something bad happens to a person? The company 'discovering' a reason they're ineligible (that they strangely never brought up before)?

Debeo Summa Credo: Felgraf: hitlersbrain: FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.

Insurance companies exist to make a profit, not care for people. Welcome to the land of retards.

Then perhaps they should not be involved in a good that everyone, at some point, is going to need, since they may very well be forced to resort to borderline fraud to actually make a profit?

You'd think that if insurance is so profitable, with so much value being leeched off by owners, somebody would have started a non-profit health insurer that doesn't try to extract any wealth for the owners.

Warren Buffett is a left leaning guy. Why doesn't he contribute start up capital to fund a non-profit health insurer. He could even structure the funding as a note that gets paid back, with interest, over time. Any profits go to pay his reasonable interest and principal back, anything else goes to increased coverage and lower premiums. Every customer would flock to such a company because they'd offer the best coverage and rate because they're not bothering to maximize profits.


If it's so difficult to make a profit, then, perhaps it's not a resource that a for-profit industry should try to handle.
2012-06-15 03:42:11 PM  
1 votes:

adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.


There is no such thing in my state.
2012-06-15 03:39:09 PM  
1 votes:

Pair-o-Dice: Savian: Health Insurance companies are the One True Cancer.

And still no cure for cancer.


Cures aren't nearly as profitable.
2012-06-15 03:38:37 PM  
1 votes:

Jixa: 504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.

Can I apply for political asylum on the grounds that the government is trying to kill me financially because I can't afford health insurance? ;)


/one major health issue away from bankruptcy
//thankfully, at least, the kids have Medicaid


Commiserations. Sadly our immigration and asylum policies are erratic at best. One day we're all "NONE IS TOO MANY" and the next it's "WE'LL TAKE ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE! WE'LL TAKE ANYONE WITH A PULSE! WE'LL TAKE THE DEAD! WE'LL TAKE PEOPLE WHO DON'T EXIST!"
2012-06-15 03:37:16 PM  
1 votes:

Ant: Marcus Aurelius: Two words: Single Payer.

That. We're already paying way more than that would cost.


Double. In point of fact. We spend roughly $6,000 per capita on Healthcare in the US and 35 million of us aren't even covered. The next highest industrialized nation is Luxemborg who spends 3800 per capita, followed by the rest of Europe that spnads about 3k each and they all have universal single-payer coverage, that includes perks like being able to get a housecall from a doctor, in the middle of the night just by calling their equivalent of 911. Saves them GOBS of money of the US alterntive which is basically: get sick at night? Go to the ER
2012-06-15 03:36:03 PM  
1 votes:
If you have a pre-existing condition then it is no longer insurance, it is cost shifting.

You want to go have better health care in this country then

1. convince old people to die with dignity: Link

2. amend the bums and illegals get free healthcare act to read that the only duty a hospital emergency room has is to relieve immediate pain and not provide treatment and stabilization

Everything else is just moving the deck chairs
2012-06-15 03:34:24 PM  
1 votes:

geoduck42: 504_King_streetcar: Pardon me a moment, I'm just going to go thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada, land of socialized health care, and not some Darwinist madhouse where an act of Christian charity will send you tumbling into penury and ruin while your fellow countrymen cheer your downfall with lusty cries of I GOT MINE.

You are aware of who you folks allowed to become your Prime Minister, right? You'll be joining us soon enough..


True. On the other hand socialized medicine is so entrenched in this country that it would be next to impossible to remove. The best that could be done there is a two-tier system with private and public healthcare side by side. And even that would be a stretch, given that the usual reaction to two-tier healthcare here is on a par with what you folks get when people start talking about single payer. Bear in mind that out conservatives like Harper are still roughly equivalent to right-leaning Democrats in the US. Harper has more in common with Obama that Romney. The other parties are actually to the left of that benchmark, with the NDP, our current opposition, being so far left that no real equivalent exists in the US, unless the Communist Party has being doing really well and keeping quiet about it. We are fairly safe for now, barring a massive shift towards the hard right. If that happens I will be checking to see if Sealand is taking immigrants.
2012-06-15 03:34:22 PM  
1 votes:

Igor Jakovsky: And what will those folks do when they are forced to buy insurance? How will they afford it then?


Community rating is built into the PPACA, so companies can't charge more for certain classes of customers than others (nor refuse them).

More directly, though, you're exempt from any mandate/tax punishment if the cost of a 'silver' plan in your state's health insurance exchange exceeds 8% of your income. That can be extrapolated to exclude 40-50% of Americans from any sort of mandate whatsoever. Though those same lower-income half of the country will generally quality for various degrees of subsidization of insurance purchase.
2012-06-15 03:33:16 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: Felgraf: hitlersbrain: FarkinHostile: So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.

Insurance companies exist to make a profit, not care for people. Welcome to the land of retards.

Then perhaps they should not be involved in a good that everyone, at some point, is going to need, since they may very well be forced to resort to borderline fraud to actually make a profit?

How is it fraud? They looked at the numbers and decided "we'll spend more on you than we will make, so no, you can't haz insurance". Nothing is stopping him from paying the doctor himself. Giving the kidney was nice, but did he also give up half of his brain? How could he not have researched this ahead of time? Now, if he did, and they said "cool",. but now they are saying "not cool", then that is different.


Calling it fraud outright is a huge stretch, but if you think it's morally just to treat being a live organ donor as a pre-existing condition, you're a wretched monster.
2012-06-15 03:32:29 PM  
1 votes:

Igor Jakovsky: Magorn: adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)

Thank you Mitt, now back here in the real world, when Jobs end, and unemployment is paying about 25% of what you used to make, dropping 3-400/mo on a "cheap maj med policy" isn;t much of an option for most people

And what will those folks do when they are forced to buy insurance? How will they afford it then?


well thanks to the health care exchanges, the 80-20 rule and the public option, Insurance is going to get a lot better and a lot cheaper. When I looked into INS after I lost my job, the only thing even vaguely affordable would have cost me about $350/mo for me, my wife and child, and that was insurance that kicked in ONLY after I'd spent $2500 out of pocket on the deductible and then picked up only about 75-80% of covered expenses up to a policy max of $50,000 lifetime. For low income folks that deductible, co pay and limitation means that is CINO, Coverage in Name Only, because they simply don't have the two large to spend before the ins. kicks in, or the 10K of copay a serious medical condition would cost them
2012-06-15 03:25:07 PM  
1 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


What was their reason?
2012-06-15 03:24:43 PM  
1 votes:

Ant: Marcus Aurelius: Two words: Single Payer.

That. We're already paying way more than that would cost.


I feel compelled to reply with this, from over in the politics tab:

Gaseous Anomaly: Drugs have a lot of low-hanging cost fruit. The amount the US (public and private) pays for drugs each year is more than twice the pharma industry's R&D budget PLUS the amount countries like Canada and the UK pay for drugs each year. Therefore, if we publicly funded pharma R&D at current levels, and literally gave away the drugs to the world, we'd still come out ahead.

2012-06-15 03:20:32 PM  
1 votes:

zetar: Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, they're a bunch of sweeties.

They cancelled my insurance the day after I was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease.

/ This was after I've paid them something like $300k in premiums (best guestimate) over the last 30 years.


My sister's insurance tried to cancel her the night she got shot through the neck, because she had a billing dispute (that was resolved) 3 months prior.
2012-06-15 03:17:22 PM  
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: Abzzstain: adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)

And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.

Just like any other high risk insurance policy.


And it's running over estimated per capita costs by more than double because sick people know better than anyone when health insurance is a good deal.
2012-06-15 03:16:57 PM  
1 votes:

yo-de-yo-yo: So no kidney punches from now on?


Only on one side.
2012-06-15 03:14:16 PM  
1 votes:
This is what happens in Romney's America!

Way to go, FartMoney!
2012-06-15 03:01:31 PM  
1 votes:
So insurance companies are supposed to lose money as long as the person is really, really nice?

Look, if you donate an organ you are going to have major health issues later. It's amazingly cool to do, but business is business. He can certainly get insurance, but it ain't gonna be the same price as the rest of us selfish MF's pay.
2012-06-15 01:36:43 PM  
1 votes:

Abzzstain: adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)

And what if no one will sell you a policy? There is effectively only one insurer in my state (BCBS) and they won't sell me a policy because I have asthma. They won't sell my wife a policy because she's "child-bearing age." Seriously, that was her pre-existing condition they listed on the rejection letter.

Luckily Obama's health plan provides an opportunity for people with pre-existing conditions, but it's still terribly expensive.


Just like any other high risk insurance policy.
2012-06-15 12:36:24 PM  
1 votes:

Abzzstain: But only if you've been without coverage for at least six months. And they are still very expensive, but better than nothing.


?? It was half the price I was paying for a super high deductible MSA with numerous exclusions so it's probably worth checking at pcip.gov . YMMV
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-15 12:34:22 PM  
1 votes:

adiabat: Life lesson: Don't let your insurance lapse.
Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.
(HIPAA 1996)


Of course, if you get sick, you will be stuck with that "cheap" policy until the law preventing denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions goes into effect, if ever.
2012-06-15 12:22:33 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: adiabat: Buy a cheap major-med policy if you're ever between jorbs, and you won't have this problem.

Thanks to Obamacare, you can now get these even when you have a "pre-existing condition"


But only if you've been without coverage for at least six months. And they are still very expensive, but better than nothing.
2012-06-15 12:09:51 PM  
1 votes:
Life lesson: I got mine
2012-06-15 12:05:15 PM  
1 votes:
so vote republican?
 
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