Given how many scoutmasters there are, that these are suspected instances and not verifiable, and that this is over a 20 year period, I don't think the rate is really any higher than you would see in the general population. As has been mentioned, that this may be a problem buttresses the BSAs stance against gays serving as scoutmasters. Would look askance at a man leading a troop of girl scouts because everyone would immediately assume he was a perve. Should give young boys the same protections against predators we afford to girl scouts.

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Girl Scouts has never been religious, so they don't care. That's why they don't do denominational badges like the Boy Scouts. I really think the age cross-section troop model of BS is much better than the single cohort thing in GS, but the GS values are so much more welcoming and supportive that I'd never trade organizations with them.

The Girl Scouts sounds awesome. What they need is a "Girl Scouts" but for boys.

Baloo Uriza: trappedspirit: How can a question be inaccurate?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

I never started. And your question would not be described as inaccurate.

I don't see why this is so difficult for people.

Boy Scouts is for 11-17 year olds. That's not "pedo-" These are not children, they're pubescent, sexually mature young people. We're not talking about pedophilia, we're talking about homosexuality when an adult man is engaged in sex with a sexually mature young man. Their status as sexually off-limits is less than 50 years old in American culture, and if you know shiat about gay culture, you know it never caught on with them. There is a reason that twink porn is king.
Keeping gay people away from scouts is the same as not letting women into the showerhouse with them even if you take away the morality argument. Factor in that gay men--unlike straight women--form their identity around farking, and if you think there are a lot of teacher-farks-student stories on Fark, get ready for it if BSA ever lets in open homosexuals.
Venture Scouts is BSA's wing serving 14-21-year-olds, well out of pedophilia range.
I'm not even talking about rape or molestation or assault, here. How many of you parents of gay sons wants to send your 16-yr-old out into the woods with a gay man for the weekend, or for a week of longterm camp? How many of you would send your daughter into the same situation with a straight man? That's ok, when it's your 15-yr-old "learning the ropes" with a 25 or 30 or 50-year-old gay man, you can take pride in knowing that at least you stuck to your blind-liberal guns.

As for these files, it's clear that either this article is terrible (I didn't read this one, I read 5 others last night) or you're all illiterate or didn't read it.

The files go back to the 1920s. Several decades' worth have already been released by courts in other states (for example, Virginia), and this court is only releasing from '61-81 because they were introduced into evidence in a civil suit.
They are not a super-duper top-secret lists of people that screw kids but we let them stay. Their purpose is the exact opposite: The people in the files have been kicked out and their names are on file so that they can't simply move 2 states over and start again. I applaud the BSA for that; as a former CPS employee I can tell you that you have no idea (and do not want to) what kinds of things a person can do to children and still have no criminal record, or even be in the database but "timed-out" and illegal to inform people of their record. BSAs files, on the other, hand allow them to keep the known sickos out forever. As a non-governmental, non-due-process, no-conviction system, however, it would also be irresponsible to let the public know what's in them.

Genevieve Marie: Shahab: Well to be honest it probably is an "orientation" so to speak, the same way homosexuality is an "orientation" that is innate. Whether there is some biological basis or whether childhood trauma plays a role I don't know, but even if it is an orientation that does not mean it is ok or that people shouldn't be treated or especially prosecuted and punished for acting on it. A child can not render consent and so should be protected from adults who wish to use them sexually.

Oh absolutely. It's a harmful orientation and children need to be protected from pedophiles. I was simply pointing out that it's a fool's errand to try and describe a pedophile as either gay or straight, when the correct way to describe their orientation is "pedophile".

And for what it's worth, I didn't mean to claim that it;s an orientation and therefore NOT a mental illness. I think it's both, and it looks like a lot of psychologists working in that field feel the same way.

I think that's a big part of why it's so unusual to successfully rehabilitate a pedophile.

So do you think rapist is an orientation as well?

I am so sorry for the victims, but I would love to see the Boy Scouts gets theirs, the bigoted asshats!

Guest: They take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it. I'm going to post something that people will take offense to, but how many men do you know that actually really like working with other children? Yes most men like their own children, but even then when the whining starts or even after a period of time they hand them over to their mother. (...)

If you aren't trolling, no one should ever let you near children.

Guest: AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

They take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it. I'm going to post something that people will take offense to, but how many men do you know that actually really like working with other children? Yes most men like their own children, but even then when the whining starts or even after a period of time they hand them over to their mother. As for other children most men would run a mile and I know it's not PC to say but men are not maternal and most in fact 90% do not want to be around children all the time. So in my opinion a man who always wants to be around children as the scout master, the little league footy coach or little girls basketball coach and helping out with the kinder children needs to be watched. From my observations throughout my whole life men just do not find children interesting. This is counter to women who coo and fuss over children and who many from an early age want to be a mummy. I think people are wise to be wary of men who take too much of an interest in children. Having said that my husband is a teacher of high school children and quite frankly you wouldn't see him near any of them once the day is finished. You especially don't see him interested in little children and I think if he ever took his daughter to a party would be the same day hell freezes over. He loves her a lot but I think the idea of hanging around a bunch of other children would be pure hell. My endurance level is higher and let me tell you it is pure endurance. This is not to say all men who chose to work with children have problems but I do think you need to be wary. If a man is a childcare worker but when the day finishes hangs around adults and shuns other child activities he is most likely fine, but if he then also coaches or helps with the children in my opinion and observation ...

Your blind acceptance of gender-roles is astounding. Did your mother teach these to you, or did your father teach them to you by forcing you to watch your siblings over going to school?

But really, it's not 1945 anymore. The times, they are a-changing.

Dangl1ng: tomWright: I have protested the BSA for its not allowing atheists as members*.

Yeah, I really wanted my kid to be a Boy Scout, but then we realized that I couldn't be anything more than a helper. I couldn't be anything more than an informal helper. Atheists are not welcome. He quit after that.

Which is a shame. If you remove the religious stuff, they actually do a lot of good things.

And not to mention the gay thing, which is a crock of shiat. Speaking of which, does anyone have any figures on the incidence of out of the closet homosexual males abusing children? My gut instinct says it would likely be very low, but who knows?

No figures, but I would predict it would be very close to average for the non-gay population.

In other words, just like everyone else.

Guest: Yes most men like their own children, but even then when the whining starts or even after a period of time they hand them over to their mother.

As somebody whose brother is a stay at home dad, I fart in your general direction.

Everyone knows Lord Baden-Powell was a pouf.

My mother was paranoid about our being molested growing up and looking back I'm half surprised I was even allowed to be in scouts much less go to scout camp for a week in the summer. Then again most of our troop leaders were either active duty or retired U.S. Marines who barely supervised the troop and were mostly in it to have an excuse to get away from the wife for a weekend, tell stories (best stories ever IMO) and drink prodigious amounts of beer. Such a golden childhood experience could never be had now-a-days with the paranoiac politically correct environment that exists.

I totally agree with RoyBatty. I was in Cub Scouts and could not wait until I could get into the Boy Scouts. Since I was too young, they labeled me a mascot. If any pedophiliacs wanted a target, I was definitely it. However, my experiences were incredibly positive and have lasted my entire life. All my male leaders, and there were several, were great. However, I'm not sure about that "doctor" who said "turn your head and cough." Just kidding...the doc had a cigarette hanging out of his mouth.

Boys just need responsible, teaching males in their lives to boost to their self confidence and help foster a healthy, well-rounded development. For every pedo we hear about, there hundreds of caring men helping the kids learn and grow. Unfortunately, for every sick pedo we hear about, there are so many others who haven't been caught yet. I guess, in today's world, diligence is mandatory for the troop leaders.



RoyBatty

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2012-06-15 02:00:04 AM
AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

I know this is FARK, but that's not accurate, and I don't find it terribly funny.

Kids could use a lot more male teachers in elementary and middle school and elsewhere.

NotMyAmrfis: Baloo Uriza: Close2TheEdge: I'm a leader in my son's Cub Scout troop, and I can tell you that the policies now border almost on overkill. It's not like when I was in Scouts, and maybe that is for the better, but it makes the whole thing seem pretty cold and clinical. The BSA is absolutely petrified at an incident, of for that matter, even an accusation occurring.

No doubt. Annual youth protection meetings for all members and quarterly refreshers for pretty much anybody whose uniform includes silver or gold epaulets back when I was a teenager working for the Council as well as a rank-and-file member in the late 90s. I dreaded dealing with the YP stuff because it was tedious, obvious and very depressing.

Anybody wanna go play monkeys?

Wait, what?

Day_Old_Dutchie: For its part, the BSA says it fears the files' release could hurt those who were suspected of child abuse without being convicted.

Now, where have we heard this one before?

Michael Jackson

Nattering Nabob: CrispFlows: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Last time I took her (a 2 year old who obviously is my progeny)to a park, I was approached THREE TIMES with varying levels of hostility and basically asked what the fark I was doing there.

That's actually one of many reasons why my wife and I chose to not have children.

You chose not to have children due to concern over being mistaken for a pedophile? Seriously?

People have a tendacy to assume and overreact to anything that involves children. I had an experience as a kid when the neighbor called social services on my mom because she gave me a spanking in the front yard after nearly getting into traffic. She even went to court for her defense and won but that wasn't fun.

Seriously, it's one of many reasons. If anything, this reason is a very minor one out of the major reasons I have.