AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

I really hate this mentality. This is why I don't take my daughter to the park anymore. Everyone automatically assumes that a man who is with a child is a pervert. Last time I took her (a 2 year old who obviously is my progeny)to a park, I was approached THREE TIMES with varying levels of hostility and basically asked what the fark I was doing there.

This reminds me of that episode of south park... A couple actually.

/got nothin real to add

/Scoutmaster E. Wok

Of course they're pedophiles. It's right there in the name: they're scouting the boys of America.

HaywoodJablonski: Of course they're pedophiles. It's right there in the name: they're scouting the boys of America.

Also came here to say IT'S CALLED THE BOY SCOUTS

Crocodilly_Pontifex: AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

I really hate this mentality. This is why I don't take my daughter to the park anymore. Everyone automatically assumes that a man who is with a child is a pervert. Last time I took her (a 2 year old who obviously is my progeny)to a park, I was approached THREE TIMES with varying levels of hostility and basically asked what the fark I was doing there.

Protip: lose the trench coat, goatee and ponytail and you'll be less suspicious. Also stop pulling out your Johnson and stroking it in public.

I'd make a lousy pedophile. Large groups of children make me nervous. I've never groomed anything more sophisticated than a horse. If I were a scout leader (boys or girls) I'd tell 'em, "The woods are over there. Go camp" and I'd sit in the car and read a book.
Plus, why on earth would you want to have sex with someone who didn't know what was happening?

I was in Scouts for like eight years. Cub Scouts then Boy Scouts. Met dozens of adult scout leaders. Some were some were Cool Dads, some were lazy morons, some were awesome and inspiring leaders, absolutely none of them ever did anything that made me feel unsafe or uncomfortable. The absolute worst thing I ever encountered in the scouts were some overzealous, obnoxious proselytizers for Christ.

I'd really hate to see this damage the reputation of the Scouts. It's a really great organization, and when my parents divorced and my dad disappeared for a few years, it was exactly what I needed in my life to keep me on track.

Any organization that mandates heterosexuality while giving you easy access to young boys as an authority figure is going to be chock full of young boy molesters. The whole point of moral proscription is to eliminate all the other cheaters, and this is like a Bacardi plant for an alcoholic. That's a billion years of evolution, and not just for humans.

oldtaku: Any organization that mandates heterosexuality while giving you easy access to young boys as an authority figure is going to be chock full of young boy molesters. The whole point of moral proscription is to eliminate all the other cheaters, and this is like a Bacardi plant for an alcoholic. That's a billion years of evolution, and not just for humans.

It's the same situation for the Catholic church. The moral proscription is doubly offensive in that they're equating pedophilia with homosexuality. Protecting kids from teh gheys isn't the same as protecting them from diddlers. Pedos come in both hetero and homo varieties...

Genevieve Marie: Yes actually, it is. I'm going to be lazy and copy and paste the relevant lines from the wikipedia page on pedophilia, but you're welcome to look at their sources for the statement and all of the other supporting research:

"Pedophilia can be described as a disorder of sexual preference, phenomenologically similar to a heterosexual or homosexual sexual orientation because it emerges prior or during puberty, and because it is stable over time.[51] These observations, however, do not exclude pedophilia from the group of mental disorders because pedophilic acts cause harm, and pedophiles can sometimes be helped by mental health professionals to refrain from acting on their impulses.[52]"

That's pretty flimsy - the citations are for 1 page from a journal regarding legal issues that doesn't appear to be available on the internet and the 2nd seems to be an unsupported extrapolation from a study on treatments for changing homosexual's sexual orientation.

But hey, I understand. You really have nothing to support your claim that it is an orientation so you'll just claim to be lazy.

So they are going to release to the public a list of people suspected of molesting children?
If I was on that list (I'm not) I would sue the hell out of 'em for libel.

Happy Hours: Genevieve Marie: Yes actually, it is. I'm going to be lazy and copy and paste the relevant lines from the wikipedia page on pedophilia, but you're welcome to look at their sources for the statement and all of the other supporting research:

"Pedophilia can be described as a disorder of sexual preference, phenomenologically similar to a heterosexual or homosexual sexual orientation because it emerges prior or during puberty, and because it is stable over time.[51] These observations, however, do not exclude pedophilia from the group of mental disorders because pedophilic acts cause harm, and pedophiles can sometimes be helped by mental health professionals to refrain from acting on their impulses.[52]"

That's pretty flimsy - the citations are for 1 page from a journal regarding legal issues that doesn't appear to be available on the internet and the 2nd seems to be an unsupported extrapolation from a study on treatments for changing homosexual's sexual orientation.

But hey, I understand. You really have nothing to support your claim that it is an orientation so you'll just claim to be lazy.

Well to be honest it probably is an "orientation" so to speak, the same way homosexuality is an "orientation" that is innate. Whether there is some biological basis or whether childhood trauma plays a role I don't know, but even if it is an orientation that does not mean it is ok or that people shouldn't be treated or especially prosecuted and punished for acting on it. A child can not render consent and so should be protected from adults who wish to use them sexually.

Crocodilly_Pontifex: AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

I really hate this mentality. This is why I don't take my daughter to the park anymore. Everyone automatically assumes that a man who is with a child is a pervert. Last time I took her (a 2 year old who obviously is my progeny)to a park, I was approached THREE TIMES with varying levels of hostility and basically asked what the fark I was doing there.

I was never approached like this when I took out my much younger sister places. She is 8 years younger than me, so I was 18, 19, she was 10, 11, and I never got looks nor anyone asking me "what the fark I was doing". If they did I'd tell them to get the fark out of my face and that it is none of their business. Stand up for yourself.

If you are getting approached that often than you need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Self, how pedo does this beard make me look?"

A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

david_gaithersburg: Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

Shadowtag: david_gaithersburg: Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 400x312]

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Out the hall, make a right, third door down on the left.

david_gaithersburg: Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

Explain the link please.

For its part, the BSA says it fears the files' release could hurt those who were suspected of child abuse without being convicted.

Now, where have we heard this one before?

Day_Old_Dutchie: For its part, the BSA says it fears the files' release could hurt those who were suspected of child abuse without being convicted.

Now, where have we heard this one before?

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Hmmmm. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it may be related to the foundation of US criminal law sort of thingy, innocent until proven guilty and all of that zany stuff.

Big Gay Al disapproves.

talan123: Can we just admit that any organization in any society that has groups of young boys being taught by adult males is probably going attract pedophIles and that it is in the organizations best interst to tell people when it happens?

Sparta?

serial_crusher: I'm sure this won't cause any problems for the guys who were "suspected" but found innocent

This.

I have protested the BSA for its not allowing atheists as members*.

I agree with this worry.

FTFA: "For its part, the BSA says it fears the files' release could hurt those who were suspected of child abuse without being convicted. What's more, the documents could "negatively impact victims' privacy and have a chilling effect on the reporting of abuse.""

If that list is made public, someone mentioned in that list will have their life ruined regardless of how or why they got on that list, regardless of guilt or innocence. In cases like this, accusation is the same as guilt where the public is concerned. What chance is there for someone to be put on that list due to internal politics? Maybe just before it is released?


* OK, only once, in Philadelphia, and it was a combined protest with some gay scouts, but that is more than most people who criticize them

Sgt. Expendable: RoyBatty: I know this is FARK, but that's not accurate, and I don't find it terribly funny.

Kids could use a lot more male teachers in elementary and middle school and elsewhere.

I agree. But I also know it's a terribly stressful lifestyle as well. To be worried all the time that somebody might get an inkling of an idea that there might be the slightest appearance of possible impropriety wears on you. All it takes is an accusation, however unfounded it may be, however much evidence may be in your favor, and your life is irrecoverably destroyed.

I'm a leader in my son's Cub Scout troop, and I can tell you that the policies now border almost on overkill. It's not like when I was in Scouts, and maybe that is for the better, but it makes the whole thing seem pretty cold and clinical. The BSA is absolutely petrified at an incident, of for that matter, even an accusation occurring.

Happy Hours: But hey, I understand. You really have nothing to support your claim that it is an orientation so you'll just claim to be lazy.

Link

And you are lazy.
Stupid as well.

I'm guessing that you are a hetro male.
Can I assume that you are a danger to little girls?

Claiming that homosexual men are attracted to little boys is just as stupid an assumption.

david_gaithersburg: Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

Hmmm. Another solid-right-wing troll who hasn't been correct in any post. Listen, son, yo should really try sources of information other than AM Radio and Fox news. Just FYI, they are so frequently incorrect that you' be better of, from a reality-based perspective, with comic books.

ghare: david_gaithersburg: Shahab: A few people in this thread seem to think that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not.

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A few people in this thread also seem to think that homosexuality does not have anything to do with pedophilia. It does.

Hmmm. Another solid-right-wing troll who hasn't been correct in any post. Listen, son, yo should really try sources of information other than AM Radio and Fox news. Just FYI, they are so frequently incorrect that you' be better of, from a reality-based perspective, with comic books.

There are too many gays in comic books these days for his tastes, I'd wager.

Anyone know where I can get some popcorn for this thread? Oh, wait...

I spent a week at Cub Scout camp with my stepson last summer as an 'adult leader'. It was seven days of politically-correct insanity. The camp director looked like Jabba the Hutt with huge bugger-grip sideburns. I figure he likes the job because the only respect he'll ever get is from little kids who don't know better.

Most of the counselors were pimply-faced nerds on power trips. About half of them still hadn't come to terms with being gay. Their primary job was shouting "NO RUNNING!" all day, every day. Running was NOT ALLOWED. I'd like to meet whoever it was that decided it was both advisable and possible to keep hundreds of adolescent boys from running for a week.

Adult leaders had to sign a paper acknowledging affiliation with some religion. Any religion. The Cub Scouts are non-denominational now, which is a step in the right direction, but leaders are still required to believe in some deity. Think about that for a minute. They don't care which invisible friend you have, but you're required to have one. I wrote down "Dogist", hoping someone would ask me what it was so I could say "If I can't eat it or hump it, I piss on it".

The boys were constantly preached to about being green and respecting the earth. Yet every meal was served on styrofoam plates with plastic utensils and glasses.

We weren't allowed to strike matches. We could get the campfires ready, but only the pimply-faced gay Hitler Youths had the authority to light them.

No touching was allowed unless you were administering first aid. Some bimbo screamed at me for picking up a little hoodlum who was kicking another. She told me to apologize to him. When I declined she began shrieking "I AM ALPHA! I AM ALPHA! YOU WILL APOLOGIZE! DO NOT CONDESCEND TO ME OR YOU WILL BE TALKING TO THE CAMP DIRECTOR IN HIS TENT!" She later got into a no-kidding catfight with another den mother.

david_gaithersburg: The purpose of the files was to keep gays/pedophiles out of the Boy Scouts. But what do facts matter on FARK.

TFA suggests that the files relate to people who were already in the Scouts. Which is not to say that the other sort don't exist - the Scout Association in the Uk keeps a large file of people who are not ever to be permitted to work as Scout leaders.

AbbeySomeone: Is every man that chooses to work with kids a pedo or do they just take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it?

They take the obvious position of trust and safety and exploit it. I'm going to post something that people will take offense to, but how many men do you know that actually really like working with other children? Yes most men like their own children, but even then when the whining starts or even after a period of time they hand them over to their mother. As for other children most men would run a mile and I know it's not PC to say but men are not maternal and most in fact 90% do not want to be around children all the time. So in my opinion a man who always wants to be around children as the scout master, the little league footy coach or little girls basketball coach and helping out with the kinder children needs to be watched. From my observations throughout my whole life men just do not find children interesting. This is counter to women who coo and fuss over children and who many from an early age want to be a mummy. I think people are wise to be wary of men who take too much of an interest in children. Having said that my husband is a teacher of high school children and quite frankly you wouldn't see him near any of them once the day is finished. You especially don't see him interested in little children and I think if he ever took his daughter to a party would be the same day hell freezes over. He loves her a lot but I think the idea of hanging around a bunch of other children would be pure hell. My endurance level is higher and let me tell you it is pure endurance. This is not to say all men who chose to work with children have problems but I do think you need to be wary. If a man is a childcare worker but when the day finishes hangs around adults and shuns other child activities he is most likely fine, but if he then also coaches or helps with the children in my opinion and observation that is very odd for a male.

/Now proceed to hate me.
//I shall also now go and DIAF

It's okay to diddle young boys as long as you believe in god. Kinda like priests.

The solution is obvious. Just have hot MILFs become scoutmasters

Guest: /Now proceed to hate me.
//I shall also now go and DIAF

I agree with you. I love my kids to death, would do anything for them. Except be in the same room with them when all their friends come over.

"C-ya honey, off to work"
"Huh, it's Sunday afternoon"
"Did I say work, I meant slit my wrists"

Kids needs to grow up and stop acting so dam childish.

My Mom, as a single parent bless her, got most everything wrong except for NOT letting me join scouting and NOT letting me be an alter-boy.

"You wanna get up at 4:30 in the morning on Sundays? The hell you do."

"There's plenty of real work to do around here, you don't need to be in the woods screwing around with knives and rope and setting fire to the state parks. Here's a brush and there's the paint-get at it."

My Mom was tougher than most men I know.

Jacobin: The solution is obvious. Just have hot MILFs become scoutmasters

Now THERE's an idea.

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I'd make a lousy pedophile.

Hey now, give yourself some credit.

"I hate gays so I'm going to conflate homosexuality and pedophilia."

"I'm tolerant of different sexual orientations so I resist calling pedophilia a sexual orientation."

Both wrong.

Pedophilia is a sexual orientation, and while we shouldn't blame people for an innate condition, we can blame them if they act on their desires in a way that fails to respect children's right not to be molested. We shouldn't demonize pedophiles for merely existing but they have the same obligation to respect other people as everybody else. Society can hold people of any background to that standard without being unfair.

I'm pretty sure my scoutmaster wasn't a pedophile. He was, however, addicted to prescription drugs.

Without Fail: Happy Hours: But hey, I understand. You really have nothing to support your claim that it is an orientation so you'll just claim to be lazy.

Link

And you are lazy.
Stupid as well.

I'm guessing that you are a hetro male.
Can I assume that you are a danger to little girls?

Claiming that homosexual men are attracted to little boys is just as stupid an assumption.

what the hell?

I said pedophilia is NOT an orientation and was given a quote which used a study on treatments to change the orientation of homosexuals as proof that pedophilia was indeed an orientation. (The study, BTW did not support that "treatment" for homosexuals could be successful).

I NEVER linked homosexuality with pedophilia. Reading comprehension - you have none.

Other people in this thread have linked homosexuality to pedophilia though, including the person I responded to who claimed pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

There was an old guy in BSA who lived in Chico CA. At camp he would get the kids to "make a muscle" and he would feel it. He would also hold your hand for an improper amount of time. As a kid I thought it was pretty creepy. When I was about 17 or so I went to his apartment to work on some merit badges. It got super creepy fast. He showed me his binder full of pictures of young boys with their shirts off. He was old then, so hopefully he's buried by now.

And people wonder why they don't want homosexuals as leaders.

I wouldn't send my girl scout on a camping trip with a man - why would I send my boy on a trip with a gay man?

/Doesn't mean I think all gays are pedophiles - just look at all the teachers that sleep with 13 year olds

Crocodilly_Pontifex: I really hate this mentality. This is why I don't take my daughter to the park anymore. Everyone automatically assumes that a man who is with a child is a pervert. Last time I took her (a 2 year old who obviously is my progeny)to a park, I was approached THREE TIMES with varying levels of hostility and basically asked what the fark I was doing there.

Either wherever you live is weird as hell, or wherever I live is. I take my kid to the park all the time without incident.