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(The Consumerist)   "Sorry to hear your son died. But you owe money for his student loans. We can't tell you how much you owe, but we expect payment on time. Have a wonderful day"   (consumerist.com ) divider line
    More: Sick, student loans, federal student loans, ProPublica, sons, payments  
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25437 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2012 at 8:15 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-14 09:51:17 PM  
Poor people problem.

What you guys should think about doing is not being poor.
Problem solved.

Check. Mate.

/Amerrrricaaaa
 
pla
2012-06-14 09:51:18 PM  
Highroller48 : the death of the primary debtor has NEVER erased money owed. The Estate of the deceased still owes the debt, or, in the case of a minor, the legal guardian. If you co-sign for someone, you are assuming a responsibility that still exists even if they die.

You've made three separate points there, which I'll address individually.

1) You can refuse to inherit an estate. If your parents owe 60 billion, you simply refuse to accept the estate, end of debt.

2) 18 means "not a minor"

3) The only one applicable to this situation, the father did cosign, which makes him liable for the debt. However, debt collection has rules, you can't just start harassing someone without telling them the amount, terms, and origin of the debt; And even then, once they lawyer up, you can't contact them at all except through their attorney.


You won't find many bigger fans of personal responsibility than me, on Fark - But part of that includes your creditors actually making themselves known and declaring how much you owe.
 
2012-06-14 09:51:52 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Correct. Federal student loans, which are pretty easy to get, do not require a parental co-signer.


If under the age of 24, they require parent financial records.

If parents make enough money, no loan monies for you.
 
2012-06-14 09:58:40 PM  
College should be free, as it in Sweden. If medical school were free, we could also change the put-upon mentality of doctors ("I'm going to do what it takes to recoup my $150k investment and then some") and lower healthcare costs.
 
2012-06-14 09:59:53 PM  

ph0rk: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Correct. Federal student loans, which are pretty easy to get, do not require a parental co-signer.

If under the age of 24, they require parent financial records.

If parents make enough money, no loan monies for you.



No. Wanna know how I know? Cuz I was locked out of things like Pell Grants (which do hold to that standard) until I was 24. Doesn't apply to either Stafford Loans or Work Study programs.

Bone up on your FAFSA info, because your current info is wrong.
 
2012-06-14 10:00:13 PM  

Koodz: I did one year of community college and always regretted it. For the rest of my life it was an extra embarassing transcript to request, an extra line on job applications, and a general pita. It was also substandard education. If you really think a kid who did 2+2 is considered the same as a kid who did 4 years of real college when it's time to apply for grad school, internships, or jobs I will go ahead and call you an idiot.


Your major classes are going to come at the 4-year institution. That's what your employer is going to care about, not whether you took your English at CC or at a 4-year school. Community colleges also don't harass you to donate to their alumni fund.

/marked email from my college as spam
 
2012-06-14 10:00:32 PM  

Moodybastard: bdub77: downstairs: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.

Federal student loans don't require a cosigner, just private ones. With any luck, they'll still be around. :) And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.

You may want to take a look at the cost of college...before you have children.
The sort of temp job someone can get while going to cc/2 year school is going to hover in the min wage category.


So you guys think he's an ass for making his kid pay for 1 year of college? Whatever.
 
2012-06-14 10:01:38 PM  

bdub77: rohar: bdub77: Oh please. What teenager listens to their farking parents? Kids either learn it or they don't. And even if it could be taught, it doesn't apply to everyone. And they certainly learn what independence is through the experience, not being told 'hey if you don't pay the loan your credit history will create problems in your future' because at that age it's in one ear out the other - and kids have their own minds about things. Not every kid, mind you. But many of them.

Your kids sound farked up.

LOL. My experience with my parents. I'm sorry to disappoint. And practically everyone I knew in college and after college, and my wife, and her brothers. I knew plenty of irresponsible college students - hell everyone I knew was like that. And I wasn't exactly a bad kid.


You appear to be surrounded by idiots. Seeing where we, as a country are going, that's not so terribly unique.

Hate to tell you this, but there's no reason young people should behave this way. There's nothing written in stone that says as much.
 
2012-06-14 10:04:07 PM  

pla: Highroller48 : the death of the primary debtor has NEVER erased money owed. The Estate of the deceased still owes the debt, or, in the case of a minor, the legal guardian. If you co-sign for someone, you are assuming a responsibility that still exists even if they die.

You've made three separate points there, which I'll address individually.

1) You can refuse to inherit an estate. If your parents owe 60 billion, you simply refuse to accept the estate, end of debt.

2) 18 means "not a minor"

3) The only one applicable to this situation, the father did cosign, which makes him liable for the debt. However, debt collection has rules, you can't just start harassing someone without telling them the amount, terms, and origin of the debt; And even then, once they lawyer up, you can't contact them at all except through their attorney.


You won't find many bigger fans of personal responsibility than me, on Fark - But part of that includes your creditors actually making themselves known and declaring how much you owe.


Well you don't inherit the debt specifically- you can inherit property with a lien on it, or creditors will claim assets in the estate before they're inherited. But debt doesn't get willed or automatically falls onto the closest living relative, unless they're married- debt is usually a joint debt in that case.

Parents aren't liable for their children's debts unless they cosign- this is the reason NO ONE loans money to minors without a cosigner. And in most cases teens can't even sign a contract and assume a contractual debt legally anyways. It has to be that way, otherwise half of the teens out there would sign a loan for $10,000 without dropping a beat.
 
2012-06-14 10:04:34 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: ph0rk: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Correct. Federal student loans, which are pretty easy to get, do not require a parental co-signer.

If under the age of 24, they require parent financial records.

If parents make enough money, no loan monies for you.


No. Wanna know how I know? Cuz I was locked out of things like Pell Grants (which do hold to that standard) until I was 24. Doesn't apply to either Stafford Loans or Work Study programs.

Bone up on your FAFSA info, because your current info is wrong.


Unsubsidized Stafford Loans only. Which means it accrues interest immediately rather than after you graduate. Work Study is based on your parent's income as well.
 
2012-06-14 10:05:14 PM  

swingerofbirches: College should be free, as it in Sweden. If medical school were free, we could also change the put-upon mentality of doctors ("I'm going to do what it takes to recoup my $150k investment and then some") and lower healthcare costs.


But socialism!

/out
 
2012-06-14 10:05:37 PM  

Koodz: I did one year of community college and always regretted it. For the rest of my life it was an extra embarassing transcript to request, an extra line on job applications, and a general pita. It was also substandard education. If you really think a kid who did 2+2 is considered the same as a kid who did 4 years of real college when it's time to apply for grad school, internships, or jobs I will go ahead and call you an idiot.


As someone who did 2+2, did an internship while in college and as a result, is currently employed and has zero student loan debt, kindly STFU.
 
2012-06-14 10:06:00 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: ArkAngel: what_now: ArkAngel: 93% of all student loans are federal

Man, I wish I wasn't leaving my office right now.

That statistic is absurd. No offense man, but private student lending is a multi billion dollar industry.

And when there are a trillion dollars in loans, you can have the feds doling out 93% and still have a multi-billion dollar private industry.

Link
Link
Link

Dude, those links are nice and all but the big picture is much bigger and complicated, both in size and by year, and by degree. Stafford loans, subsidized & unsubsidized by the gov't have been around a long time for undergrad & grad, I don't believe there needed to be a co-signor, but the loans covered relatively little (like less than half) of most tuition fees, not including housing, food, books, insurance, etc.

All undergrad gov't PLUS loans (ie, the loans that paid for the other half of tuition plus housing etc etc) needed a parent co-signor. BUT, I think since they were gov't loans, they were terminated when/if the primary beneficiary died.

For Grad school, before July 2006, anything above stafford was PRIVATE ONLY, ie, super fark-job terms, like no co-signor = double the rate and no termination of loan upon primary beneficiaries death. Sometime in 2006 somebody in Congress smelled the next bubble bursting and somehow GradPLUS loans were made available to grad students without a co-signor.

So basically, as I understand it, no one should ever be taking out anything but Fed loans (Stafford/Perkins/PLUS/GradPlus) at this point, if for no other reason than dischargeability in death. But that option is only 6 years old. And if there is NO option of a co-signor, Privates may be someones only undergrad option, but then again, that means death means no possible recourse for the privates.

Also also, Stafford & PLUS loans now qualify for IBR (Income based repayment), so even if you make minimum wage, you pay off on a graduated scale that terminates after 25 years. That has only been available since 2008ish.

Basically, if you play your cards right, you currently can be saddled with a shiat load of gov't debt, but it is at least dischargeable in death or after 25 years of indentured servitude. Borrowers before 2006 are screwed with private debt terms, and no dischargeability in death.

So also also also, this crap is a maze, and if anyone in the middle is on the take, it is easy as hell to go down the 'wrong' path.

/I feel bad for this guy
//lost his son
///and likely didn't have the understanding or resources to navigate the BS loan system


All valid points. I will also add, however, that the debt forgiveness that comes at the termination of the IBR period is NOT a tax-free discharge of indebtedness. The discharge that comes at the end of the 10-year (120 monthly payments) public service loan forgiveness program IS tax-free.
 
2012-06-14 10:06:43 PM  
People that think that it is okay to let an 18 year old kid fend for himself shouldn't have children. You are nothing more than animals not even realizing what happens when you have sex.
 
2012-06-14 10:06:51 PM  
Nothing new

media-cache0.pinterest.com
 
2012-06-14 10:08:30 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Serious Post on Serious Thread: $20k a year for combined sub/unsub in a decent grad program is "high"??? Farking UNDERGRAD is twice that these days.

Droppin some science

I'm guessing you are another person who went to school over 5-10 years ago and is now clueless about reality. Also, there aren't a lot of 'fellowships' in professional school.

Again, if you can't make your tuition in graduate school on a combination of Stafford loans and a TA/RA stipend, you're doing it wrong.

There's a reason why when people apply to graduate schools, they check to make sure they can get their tuition comp'd by the department through an RA or TA position plus a stipend.

If you accepted a position that does not offer that sort of assistance, then you simply picked the wrong position with the wrong school.


Again, not talking Masters of Talking Out My Ass, grad schools, you know, other stuff, everything from Accounting to Veterinary degrees. Guess we'll never need any of those fools! How dare they try and provide a service not undergirded by the perpetual mechanizations of academic masturbatory self-perpetuation!

You are describing an academic scam. I'm describing getting an (what used to be) useful degree you could make a living off of. Congrats if you achieved the former, but good luck getting your estate planned or dog cared for if you scorn the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_professional_degree#Professional_d e grees
 
2012-06-14 10:10:15 PM  

Cheesus: Unsubsidized Stafford Loans only. Which means it accrues interest immediately rather than after you graduate.


They're loans, you're gonna pay interest.

That's also totally different than your first statement.

Work Study is based on your parent's income as well.

The thresholds are very high compared to Pell Grants, et al. I qualified for work study every single time I got denied Pell Grants.

/really out
 
2012-06-14 10:11:37 PM  

dustman81: Koodz: I did one year of community college and always regretted it. For the rest of my life it was an extra embarassing transcript to request, an extra line on job applications, and a general pita. It was also substandard education. If you really think a kid who did 2+2 is considered the same as a kid who did 4 years of real college when it's time to apply for grad school, internships, or jobs I will go ahead and call you an idiot.

As someone who did 2+2, did an internship while in college and as a result, is currently employed and has zero student loan debt, kindly STFU.


Congrats on your anecdote. I have one too.
 
2012-06-14 10:11:37 PM  

pippi longstocking: People that think that it is okay to let an 18 year old kid fend for himself shouldn't have children. You are nothing more than animals not even realizing what happens when you have sex.


neorepublica.com

Would gladly disagree with you.

/fending for himself and us
//average age is still 19
///joined when I was 17
 
2012-06-14 10:11:41 PM  
My plan is so far to ignore my college debt forever. So far so good. Why I should pay for something I am not using. If they want the diploma back I am happy to mail it back and no longer endorse the college or associate myself with it in anyway. I already gave them several years of my limited life span. They can suck a fat one.
 
2012-06-14 10:13:07 PM  
FTFA: Because he co-signed on his son's loan, he is now fully liable for the total loan amount.

There you go. Feel sorry for the guy but he signed the contract.

Having said that, whoever owns this loan is required by law to provide a full accounting of the payments, balance and interest within in 30 days (unless the rules are different than the rules for consumer loans).

Got out of a loan for furniture once because the company I originally got the loan from sold all their loans. Unfortunately for the company that bought them, all of the account data was stored using outdated software and was inaccessible.

I originally asked for a loan balance sheet because I believed that several of my payments hadn't been properly recorded. I hounded them until they offered to settle the loan. Turns out it would cost more to access the data than I still owed on the loan but factors of 10. Too bad for them.
 
2012-06-14 10:13:58 PM  

swingerofbirches: College should be free, as it in Sweden. If medical school were free, we could also change the put-upon mentality of doctors ("I'm going to do what it takes to recoup my $150k investment and then some") and lower healthcare costs.


Unfortunately, to do that we would have to drastically raise taxes. The Swedes pay one of the (if not THE) highest tax rates in the world, when you combine all taxes (not just income). Americans want it all but don't want to pay for it. My Swedish cousins don't really complain about their tax rate simply because pretty much all basic needs are met, so their take-home pays rent/mortgage, utilities, food, and fun.
 
2012-06-14 10:14:40 PM  

swingerofbirches: College should be free


How's that working out for the Greeks?
 
2012-06-14 10:14:43 PM  
FTA: "I would tell them to call the lawyer," he tell ProPublica. "And they would still say, 'The lawyer doesn't owe us. You're the one who owes us. You're the one who has to pay us.'"

If they want to go THAT route, then he can say "Yeah, well I didn't borrow money from YOU, I borrowed from someone else. Therefore I owe YOU nothing."

This buying and selling of debt is a major problem. It's why zombie debt exists.
 
2012-06-14 10:15:59 PM  
"Because he co-signed on his son's loan, he is now fully liable for the total loan amount."

Stopped reading right there. Sorry your kid croaked, but you signed it so stfu and pay your bills.
 
2012-06-14 10:16:23 PM  

rohar: pippi longstocking: People that think that it is okay to let an 18 year old kid fend for himself shouldn't have children. You are nothing more than animals not even realizing what happens when you have sex.

[neorepublica.com image 608x405]

Would gladly disagree with you.

/fending for himself and us
//average age is still 19
///joined when I was 17


The brain and cognitive functions aren't full developed until your 20s. It isn't their fault but even 18 year olds don't fully understand the consequences of their actions. Hell some people never do.
 
2012-06-14 10:17:11 PM  

bdub77: Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that...


Add me to the people who don't have a problem with this. It sounds kind of like it was in my family: if you wanted to go away for four years, you had to earn some kind of scholarship. It didn't have to be a full ride, but we were expected to contribute. If not, it was two more years at home for community college, then off to the university of our choice for the last two years.

My sisters both did the CC-to-university route. I wasn't up for two extra years at home, so I hit a brazillion golf balls to get good enough to earn scholarship offers. I ended up not taking any of them--I sort of fell into a merit scholarship--but it was nice to know I could have helped if necessary.

And certainly, none of us held it against our parents. We all had guaranteed educations, but we were expected to contribute if that education involved living away from home for four years.
 
2012-06-14 10:20:22 PM  
One document shows that $160,000 in credit had been extended to the son, and that if he made all his payments as scheduled, he would have paid a total of $279,000 in the end.

A $160,000 loan for a college degree?

And yet they let the kid graduate, despite this profound act of numerical illiteracy?
 
2012-06-14 10:25:17 PM  

Xcott: One document shows that $160,000 in credit had been extended to the son, and that if he made all his payments as scheduled, he would have paid a total of $279,000 in the end.

A $160,000 loan for a college degree?

And yet they let the kid graduate, despite this profound act of numerical illiteracy?


160k for undergrad is about normal at a private university. The expensive ones are all over 200k
 
2012-06-14 10:27:02 PM  
Cosigned? They got you.

When there is a cosigner, there should be an insurance option for death or disability. It can't cost that much to the loan given the typical age of a student with a parental cosigner. After all, the concept of cosigner is supposed to be insurance for the lender that the borrower is not just going to take the money and run.
 
2012-06-14 10:27:10 PM  

DamnYankees: dustman81: It's called "building character".

Keep telling yourself these little morality tales. It doesn't make them true. You think you're of a higher character because your parents were less generous? Please.


What exactly do you mean by "character", and if poverty and deprivation build it, do I really want any? Is it some vague thing the rich don't have-- I mean, the poor get scabies more than the rich do and you can keep that.
 
2012-06-14 10:28:03 PM  
With me, the conversation would go like this after they couldn't come up with who owns the note, and how much it is. "Don't call me again until you get your shiat together. Then we can talk." click
 
2012-06-14 10:29:46 PM  
FYI- if you don't have a loan currently - there are virtually NO consumer protections associated with student loans anymore.
 
2012-06-14 10:33:37 PM  

Carth: Xcott: A $160,000 loan for a college degree?

And yet they let the kid graduate, despite this profound act of numerical illiteracy?

160k for undergrad is about normal at a private university. The expensive ones are all over 200k


Not if you're broke. 200K is the sticker price for rich people. If you're broke, you usually pay a deeply discounted rate. If you are admitted to Harvard, for example, and you are broke, tuition is free.

There is no legitimate excuse for borrowing 160,000 for college beyond being generally unable to interpret strings of digits.
 
2012-06-14 10:34:01 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: Cosigned? They got you.

When there is a cosigner, there should be an insurance option for death or disability. It can't cost that much to the loan given the typical age of a student with a parental cosigner. After all, the concept of cosigner is supposed to be insurance for the lender that the borrower is not just going to take the money and run.


Some companies do this, I used to work with a guy who did this on sub-prime auto loans for Wells Fargo. But usually it's on the crappier part of your loan portfolio.
 
2012-06-14 10:34:57 PM  

Carth: rohar: pippi longstocking: People that think that it is okay to let an 18 year old kid fend for himself shouldn't have children. You are nothing more than animals not even realizing what happens when you have sex.

[neorepublica.com image 608x405]

Would gladly disagree with you.

/fending for himself and us
//average age is still 19
///joined when I was 17

The brain and cognitive functions aren't full developed until your 20s. It isn't their fault but even 18 year olds don't fully understand the consequences of their actions. Hell some people never do.


And yet, the average soldier manages to not only face the consequences of his own actions but ours.

Yeah, I get it, development isn't complete until much later. Capacity to challenge the world comes before development is complete.
 
2012-06-14 10:35:16 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: So anybody who has not paid tuition in the past 5 years should STFU and GTFO.


But how will people who didn't go to college feel superior to college grads now?
 
2012-06-14 10:36:21 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Yeah. Even at a state college, working on the side isn't going to make much of a dent in the 2 years on the community college side. Student would be better off concentrating on their studies.


That's a silly thing to say. Clearly it depends on the student's circumstances.

College student or not, If you're broke, you're much better off working than paying four years of living expenses with a giant loan. If you go the giant loan route, you are likely to be screwed for the rest of your life.

The only case in which you should "concentrate on your studies" (a euphemism for not getting a job) is if you have the cash to live for years without getting a job. If you don't, then a job is one of the few options that doesn't lead to financial ruin.
 
2012-06-14 10:36:56 PM  
So the lesson here is:

Take out life insurance on anyone you co sign a loan with.
 
2012-06-14 10:37:39 PM  

Guidette Frankentits: Kind of hard to be outraged. Sure, banks are crooks and private loans are pretty pricey but why didn't the kid get a federal loan? Did he have a drug conviction? Why did the dad co-sign for a private loan? This is like being mad at an US Bank building's shadow covering the area you planted your new garden in.



The dad makes $21,000/year as a gardener, which suggests that the family is probably unfamiliar with higher education and the nuances of student loans and paying for college. The father, and perhaps the son, were likely too ignorant to know how best to pay for college. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the dad didn't understand what "co-sign" meant.
 
2012-06-14 10:40:06 PM  
That really and truly sucks. But it's what "co-signer" means.
 
2012-06-14 10:40:48 PM  
I'm with the guy who said if you didn't go to college in the last 5 years kindly stfu. I graduated in 08. I was lucky to have parents who contributed for most of my expense, or I'd have tons of college debt right now. I lived at home and went to a state school. For most of it, I worked two jobs. One I got paid $9.50 an hour and one I got $7 or $8 an hour. For a while I worked a third job that actually paid like $15, but it was a temp job and I ran out of work. I contributed what I could but it honestly is pretty much impossible to pay your whole way. Even living at home, my tuition was something like $3500 a semester, plus $500 or so for books, plus $300 or so for parking. Factor in a couple hundred a month for gas and you are looking at over $15,000 a year while living at home and avoiding most other living expenses.

I guess maybe I could of worked a few more hours if I didn't bother studying, doing school work, or being in clubs that I thought would help me in the future.

Really the fact is now, if you can afford to pay for your tuition from working in the summer like you could 20 years ago, then you probably don't need college. Do whatever the hell it is that is paying you so incredibly well at 18-20 years old.

The same people biatching about how all the young people are idiots for having debt or needing help from their parents are probably the same people biatching about how they should of taken advantage of their free time while in school and worked on independent projects, or unpaid internships to build their resume.

Also I think the price was gone up 15-25% since I graduated so I can't even imagine how they do it now.

I'm not going to scroll up to quote it, but whoever said it is easy because they got an employer to pay for their first degree, then managed to get a job at a university that offered tuition payment as a benefit after probably 20 years of experience is so out of touch with what young people are facing it is asinine they even posted that. Entry level doesn't even exist anymore and every employer has no interest in training anyone for anything. Good luck finding a job that is going to pay to get you a degree, most people with a degree can't even get a job that maybe pays health care. That job I mentioned that paid $7-$8 an hour? Well that was at the university I went to, yeah I wasn't the only one who applied for that.
 
2012-06-14 10:42:35 PM  

Moodybastard:

You may want to take a look at the cost of college...before you have children.
The sort of temp job someone can get while going to cc/2 year school is going to hover in the min wage category.


This.

How many part-time jobs can a typical 20 year old get that both works around his/her CC school schedule and leaves tens of thousands of dollars left over to support the student during the last two years of college?
 
2012-06-14 10:43:19 PM  

Carth: The brain and cognitive functions aren't full developed until your 20s.


Pseudoscience bullshiat.

Scientists have observed that brain mass is slightly increasing in the 20s and even 30s; it doesn't mean that our cognitive functions are still developing at 20, and it certainly doesn't mean that we can't comprehend loans or compound interest.

Besides, if 20-year-olds are somehow cognitively incapable of understanding basic ideas about dollar amounts or cause and effect, why should they be going to college, where they will be expected to understand the homeomorphism theorem or the categorical imperative? And why would they expect to get a job out of college if science says they're all idiots who aren't done learning to process facts about the world around them?
 
2012-06-14 10:46:15 PM  

NickelP: Entry level doesn't even exist anymore and every employer has no interest in training anyone for anything


I'm a data architect. My nearest decent school is UW. Because of that I'm fully aware I have to train my employees.

The rest of your points seemed spot on though.
 
2012-06-14 10:46:43 PM  

FizixJunkee: Guidette Frankentits: Kind of hard to be outraged. Sure, banks are crooks and private loans are pretty pricey but why didn't the kid get a federal loan? Did he have a drug conviction? Why did the dad co-sign for a private loan? This is like being mad at an US Bank building's shadow covering the area you planted your new garden in.


The dad makes $21,000/year as a gardener, which suggests that the family is probably unfamiliar with higher education and the nuances of student loans and paying for college. The father, and perhaps the son, were likely too ignorant to know how best to pay for college. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the dad didn't understand what "co-sign" meant.


I'm not sure if you're trying to defend him, but ignorance isn't a defense to get out of loans. I wish it were, I'd claim to be the dumbest motherfarker on the planet.
 
2012-06-14 10:47:26 PM  

Xcott: Carth: Xcott: A $160,000 loan for a college degree?

And yet they let the kid graduate, despite this profound act of numerical illiteracy?

160k for undergrad is about normal at a private university. The expensive ones are all over 200k

Not if you're broke. 200K is the sticker price for rich people. If you're broke, you usually pay a deeply discounted rate. If you are admitted to Harvard, for example, and you are broke, tuition is free.

There is no legitimate excuse for borrowing 160,000 for college beyond being generally unable to interpret strings of digits.


The Ivy league schools are pretty good about not bankrupting you once you get in. Harvard even guarantees financial obligations won't stop an admitted student from attending. Schools like Johns Hopkins (55k a year) Pitzer College (54k) and Sarah Lawrence College (59k) aren't as generous and I could see students leaving with nearly 200k in debt.
 
2012-06-14 10:49:08 PM  
If someone called me up and told me I owe them an undetermined amount of money, I would simply hang up the phone.

When they provide full documentation, then we'll talk.
 
2012-06-14 10:50:23 PM  

Xcott: Carth: The brain and cognitive functions aren't full developed until your 20s.

Pseudoscience bullshiat.

Scientists have observed that brain mass is slightly increasing in the 20s and even 30s; it doesn't mean that our cognitive functions are still developing at 20, and it certainly doesn't mean that we can't comprehend loans or compound interest.

Besides, if 20-year-olds are somehow cognitively incapable of understanding basic ideas about dollar amounts or cause and effect, why should they be going to college, where they will be expected to understand the homeomorphism theorem or the categorical imperative? And why would they expect to get a job out of college if science says they're all idiots who aren't done learning to process facts about the world around them?


If you want to call the neuroscientist MD a quack go ahead. Here is a link to his qualifications and journal articles. if you have other sources that contradict him please share.
 
2012-06-14 10:50:35 PM  

FizixJunkee: Moodybastard:

You may want to take a look at the cost of college...before you have children.
The sort of temp job someone can get while going to cc/2 year school is going to hover in the min wage category.

This.

How many part-time jobs can a typical 20 year old get that both works around his/her CC school schedule and leaves tens of thousands of dollars left over to support the student during the last two years of college?


Yeah this. That $15/hr temp job I was lucky to get actually got me a lot of calls from the temp agency it was from. The owner of that company personally called them to say how great I was and how the only reason he terminated my contract was that he was out of work. They tried to put me a few different places after that. When you fill out an available hour sheet that basically says you are completely unavailable on the weekends for your other job, have assorted classes through out the day and sometimes at night, and most of the gaps in your day are filled with your second job, it is pretty damn hard to find someone that can work with that. And on the off chance that you do, in a couple months your schedule will be completely different.
 
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