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(The Consumerist)   "Sorry to hear your son died. But you owe money for his student loans. We can't tell you how much you owe, but we expect payment on time. Have a wonderful day"   (consumerist.com) divider line 300
    More: Sick, student loans, federal student loans, ProPublica, sons, payments  
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25415 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2012 at 8:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-14 04:48:40 PM  
He doesn't have statements mailed to him that the father can get?
 
2012-06-14 04:52:17 PM  
Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.
 
2012-06-14 04:55:04 PM  

bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.


But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.
 
2012-06-14 05:01:12 PM  

downstairs: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.


This. I'm not sure what it's like now but in the mid 90's I tried repeatedly to get a loan without parents cosigning and it's was impossible unless you were over the age of 24.
 
2012-06-14 05:03:22 PM  

downstairs: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.


Federal student loans don't require a cosigner, just private ones. With any luck, they'll still be around. :) And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.
 
2012-06-14 05:05:23 PM  
The loan's current servicer - ACS Education Services - is obligated to reveal this amount, but the father is having trouble getting the truth out of the company, a subsidiary of Xerox.

Bullshiat. There are some servicers that are shady. This isn't one of them. The father probably doesn't have the students account number, SSN, ID number etc.

There's an awful lot missing out of this story.
 
2012-06-14 05:06:12 PM  
The other loan began with the now-bankrupt Education Finance Partners, which was paid a $2.5 million settlement in 2007 over allegations it paid colleges to push students toward its high-interest loans.

Huh?
 
2012-06-14 05:08:59 PM  

bdub77: downstairs: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.

Federal student loans don't require a cosigner, just private ones. With any luck, they'll still be around. :) And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.


93% of all student loans are federal
 
2012-06-14 05:09:17 PM  

beantowndog: The other loan began with the now-bankrupt Education Finance Partners, which was paid a $2.5 million settlement in 2007 over allegations it paid colleges to push students toward its high-interest loans.

Huh?


Oh. Them.

Yeah, so they came and said "hey financial aid offices, you should tell kids to use our product!! It's great! Here's a bunch of candy".

Reputable Financial aid offices: "...this loan sucks, dude. Go away."
Sketchy Financial aid offices: "By candy, you mean money we can use for "scholarship and budgeting" purpose. This loan is wonderful!"
 
2012-06-14 05:09:57 PM  

bdub77: downstairs: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

But he's going to need a loan at some point, and they're not going to give him one unless you co-sign. So your plan will fail to get him into anything beyond community college.

Federal student loans don't require a cosigner, just private ones. With any luck, they'll still be around. :) And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.


Correct. Federal student loans, which are pretty easy to get, do not require a parental co-signer.

If you don't want to be on the hook for a loan if worse comes to worst, then don't co-sign.
 
2012-06-14 05:10:05 PM  

ArkAngel: 93% of all student loans are federal


Man, I wish I wasn't leaving my office right now.

That statistic is absurd. No offense man, but private student lending is a multi billion dollar industry.
 
2012-06-14 05:11:58 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Correct. Federal student loans, which are pretty easy to get, do not require a parental co-signer.

If you don't want to be on the hook for a loan if worse comes to worst, then don't co-sign.


Thanks, I take back my statement. I got loans back in 1994... so my memory is shady.

/Paid in full pretty quickly.
 
2012-06-14 05:12:34 PM  

what_now: Bullshiat. There are some servicers that are shady. This isn't one of them. The father probably doesn't have the students account number, SSN, ID number etc.

There's an awful lot missing out of this story.


Welcome to "The Consumerist!"
 
2012-06-14 05:12:43 PM  
I would tell them that until they either A) They give me the info I need or B) They take me to court, they can C) fark Right Off
 
2012-06-14 05:13:37 PM  
 
2012-06-14 05:14:10 PM  

what_now: beantowndog: The other loan began with the now-bankrupt Education Finance Partners, which was paid a $2.5 million settlement in 2007 over allegations it paid colleges to push students toward its high-interest loans.

Huh?

Oh. Them.

Yeah, so they came and said "hey financial aid offices, you should tell kids to use our product!! It's great! Here's a bunch of candy".

Reputable Financial aid offices: "...this loan sucks, dude. Go away."
Sketchy Financial aid offices: "By candy, you mean money we can use for "scholarship and budgeting" purpose. This loan is wonderful!"


But they won the settlement?
 
2012-06-14 05:17:39 PM  

bdub77: And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H HAHA


Oh wow. You're a riot. Good luck with that.
 
2012-06-14 05:19:30 PM  

Majick Thise: I would tell them that until they either A) They give me the info I need or B) They take me to court, they can C) fark Right Off


Can't you just not pay a loan if they can't produce the documents, and not get in legal trouble?
 
2012-06-14 05:24:35 PM  
Isn't there something that you can send a collection agency stating, basically, "only contact me via mail and only do that if you can send me proof that you actually own this loan"?
 
2012-06-14 05:27:47 PM  

what_now: ArkAngel: 93% of all student loans are federal

Man, I wish I wasn't leaving my office right now.

That statistic is absurd. No offense man, but private student lending is a multi billion dollar industry.


"Private" student lending is a lot smaller now that the federal government wasn't essentially giving banks free guarantees for originating federal loans.

But yes, the vast majority of loans are FAFSA-type "awarded" loans.

/lotsa private loans for law students, though
 
2012-06-14 05:28:25 PM  

what_now: ArkAngel: 93% of all student loans are federal

Man, I wish I wasn't leaving my office right now.

That statistic is absurd. No offense man, but private student lending is a multi billion dollar industry.


And when there are a trillion dollars in loans, you can have the feds doling out 93% and still have a multi-billion dollar private industry.

Link
Link
Link
 
2012-06-14 05:29:22 PM  

doglover: bdub77: And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H HAHA


Oh wow. You're a riot. Good luck with that.


Yeah. Even at a state college, working on the side isn't going to make much of a dent in the 2 years on the community college side. Student would be better off concentrating on their studies.
 
2012-06-14 05:45:28 PM  

bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.


Ah. So you're an ass. That makes sense.
 
2012-06-14 05:48:23 PM  

DamnYankees: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

Ah. So you're an ass. That makes sense.


I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.
 
2012-06-14 05:52:06 PM  

what_now: ArkAngel: 93% of all student loans are federal

Man, I wish I wasn't leaving my office right now.

That statistic is absurd. No offense man, but private student lending is a multi billion dollar industry.


The only way that makes sense is if you mean 93% of all student loans are guaranteed by the feds. Which might not be true but would be more likely to be true.
 
2012-06-14 05:53:06 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.


It's not a "law", but if you have the means to support your child's education and you choose not to, I don't know what else to say. The fact that you weren't helped doesn't mean you need to pass on that privation to your kids.
 
2012-06-14 05:53:38 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: doglover: bdub77: And the kid should be earning money his two years in CC/university on the side, so he can afford tuition/room and board later.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H HAHA


Oh wow. You're a riot. Good luck with that.

Yeah. Even at a state college, working on the side isn't going to make much of a dent in the 2 years on the community college side. Student would be better off concentrating on their studies.


I paid room and board and living expenses for 3 years of college. My parents paid a small part of tuition and the rest were student loans I picked up and paid off.

And I don't consider myself an ass for wanting to make my kid responsible. Again, best laid plans. There's no saying what will happen in the future, but that's what I plan to do. I think college is worth it now, but in the future who knows?

Personally I think it's hilarious that everyone wants to entitle their kid to everything. Good luck with that.
 
2012-06-14 05:57:06 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.

It's not a "law", but if you have the means to support your child's education and you choose not to, I don't know what else to say. The fact that you weren't helped doesn't mean you need to pass on that privation to your kids.


Up until college, you do support your child's education, through taxes, through working with your kid on homework and supporting them in every way, whether that's rides to school or other extracurricular activities.

At some point you should start passing off the reins. Do you expect to just give your kid everything they want until they die? Would that be the proper way to raise a child?
 
2012-06-14 05:57:40 PM  

bdub77: And I don't consider myself an ass for wanting to make my kid responsible.


I like the idea that refusing to help your child makes your child responsible. That's comedy right there.

I don't know about you, but where I come from there this thing called "family". It means you help each other out, inter-generationally. My grandparents did what they could to help my parents get a good education in life. My parents helped my brothers and I. And in return, I will help my children. And on the flip side, when needed, my parents help out my grandparents in their old age, I will help out my parents in their old age, and I hope my children will help me in mine.

The idea that you think creating this sort of familial commitment is fostering "entitlement" is pitiful.
 
2012-06-14 05:59:23 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.

It's not a "law", but if you have the means to support your child's education and you choose not to, I don't know what else to say. The fact that you weren't helped doesn't mean you need to pass on that privation to your kids.


I don't really think that's entirely true. I certainly tried harder and appreciated what I was able to accomplish much more than the folks who had their parents pay for everything seemed to, I can tell you that.
 
2012-06-14 06:00:20 PM  

bdub77: At some point you should start passing off the reins.


Yes, when they don't need you anymore. But the job of the parent is not to cut the child off at their time of choosing. It's the job of the child, once able, to say "I can do it on my own now".

If you have a drug-addicted kid or something who is beyond help, then maybe. But if your kid says "I want to be a doctor" and you say "ok, good luck with that - I have the money but I'm not going to help you", then that's just farked up.
 
2012-06-14 06:01:31 PM  

DamnYankees: I like the idea that refusing to help your child makes your child responsible.


Its a loan. The kid should have to be fully responsible for it. I'm pretty sure my parents didn't co-sign, because it was a federal loan. I paid it back all by my self.
 
2012-06-14 06:02:39 PM  

DamnYankees: bdub77: And I don't consider myself an ass for wanting to make my kid responsible.

I like the idea that refusing to help your child makes your child responsible. That's comedy right there.

I don't know about you, but where I come from there this thing called "family". It means you help each other out, inter-generationally. My grandparents did what they could to help my parents get a good education in life. My parents helped my brothers and I. And in return, I will help my children. And on the flip side, when needed, my parents help out my grandparents in their old age, I will help out my parents in their old age, and I hope my children will help me in mine.

The idea that you think creating this sort of familial commitment is fostering "entitlement" is pitiful.


You and I have very different opinions of what familial commitment is, as we do about most things. And yes I happen to consider teaching your children financial responsibility to be very important. If you think it abusive in any way to suggest that your kid partially earn his way through school you are entitled to your opinion, but frankly I think it's a stupid one.
 
2012-06-14 06:02:45 PM  

downstairs: DamnYankees: I like the idea that refusing to help your child makes your child responsible.

Its a loan. The kid should have to be fully responsible for it. I'm pretty sure my parents didn't co-sign, because it was a federal loan. I paid it back all by my self.


Same for me. I have loans and am paying them back. I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic though.

/well, it has to do with the actual topic of TFA, i could you that.
 
2012-06-14 06:03:26 PM  

bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.


I am going to put my kids on the same college financing plan my parents put me on - Figure it out yourself.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: bdub77: Maybe you shouldn't have cosigned the loan.

Yes, it's this guy's fault for cosigning. Still, the loan servicer, ACS, should have this information.

Plans for my kid: IF you want to go to college, here's the deal. I'll put SOME (not all) money down for you. Rest is up to you. First two years, community college (I'll pay 100%), then transfer to a real university for 2 years - I'll pay about half of that. And if you so choose, you can take the next 2-3 years for masters, same or different university - you work it out, on your dime. Now you've got your 'college' experience of living alone for 4-5 years, and a degree that should hopefully earn you money.

Be very careful about who you cosign your loan to.

Ah. So you're an ass. That makes sense.

I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.


Same here. My parents let me stay rent-free in their house while I went to CC, but paying for college was on me.

It's called "building character". If someone has to work for something, they'll appreciate it more than if they just have it given to them. If a kid is paying his/her own way through school, they'll work harder than someone who is on someone else's dime.
 
2012-06-14 06:03:56 PM  

bdub77: If you think it abusive in any way to suggest that your kid partially earn his way through school you are entitled to your opinion


I never once used the word "abusve". Don't put words in my mouth.
 
2012-06-14 06:07:22 PM  

DamnYankees: bdub77: If you think it abusive in any way to suggest that your kid partially earn his way through school you are entitled to your opinion

I never once used the word "abusve". Don't put words in my mouth.


No you simply imply it. I'm sorry, what's the correct term? Wrong? So sorry I'll try to use smaller words next time.
 
2012-06-14 06:09:02 PM  

bdub77: DamnYankees: bdub77: If you think it abusive in any way to suggest that your kid partially earn his way through school you are entitled to your opinion

I never once used the word "abusve". Don't put words in my mouth.

No you simply imply it. I'm sorry, what's the correct term? Wrong? So sorry I'll try to use smaller words next time.


Callous is probably a word I would use,
 
2012-06-14 06:11:58 PM  

dustman81: It's called "building character".


Keep telling yourself these little morality tales. It doesn't make them true. You think you're of a higher character because your parents were less generous? Please.
 
2012-06-14 06:17:58 PM  

DamnYankees: Yes, when they don't need you anymore. But the job of the parent is not to cut the child off at their time of choosing. It's the job of the child, once able, to say "I can do it on my own now".


Parents are not a resource trough for their adult children. The attitude that you stop blindly giving when the child decides it's time is a good part of what is contributing to the extended adolescence (into their 20s) of modern Americans.
 
2012-06-14 06:19:50 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: Yes, when they don't need you anymore. But the job of the parent is not to cut the child off at their time of choosing. It's the job of the child, once able, to say "I can do it on my own now".

Parents are not a resource trough for their adult children. The attitude that you stop blindly giving when the child decides it's time is a good part of what is contributing to the extended adolescence (into their 20s) of modern Americans.


No, it's really not. Are you just making this up?
 
2012-06-14 06:23:21 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't see how that's assholish. I don't know where it became law that parents need to pay for their kids' college. I certainly never had any help with my college stuff other than free room and board while I was doing my 2 years at CC.

It's not a "law", but if you have the means to support your child's education and you choose not to, I don't know what else to say. The fact that you weren't helped doesn't mean you need to pass on that privation to your kids.

I don't really think that's entirely true. I certainly

like to believe I tried harder and appreciated what I was able to accomplish much more than the folks who had their parents pay for everything seemed to, I can tell you that.

ftfy
 
2012-06-14 06:25:46 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: Yes, when they don't need you anymore. But the job of the parent is not to cut the child off at their time of choosing. It's the job of the child, once able, to say "I can do it on my own now".

Parents are not a resource trough for their adult children. The attitude that you stop blindly giving when the child decides it's time is a good part of what is contributing to the extended adolescence (into their 20s) of modern Americans.

No, it's really not. Are you just making this up?


You're kidding, right? Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent? Sure, there are the occasional traditionally aged college folks who will be diligent even if everything is paid for, because they're Type A's or they've been brought up with a sense of responsibility, but I can tell you from experience (and anyone honest who has been to a traditional 4-year will back this up) those people are rare.
 
2012-06-14 06:31:19 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?


No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.
 
2012-06-14 06:36:18 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?

No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.


This trend has been going on for much longer than the last few years, seeing as I went to college in the 90s.
 
2012-06-14 06:37:33 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?

No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.

This trend has been going on for much longer than the last few years, seeing as I went to college in the 90s.


I'll believe it if you show me evidence.
 
2012-06-14 06:44:35 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?

No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.

This trend has been going on for much longer than the last few years, seeing as I went to college in the 90s.

I'll believe it if you show me evidence.


You're going to be disappointed, I guess. But you're set in the idea that paying someone's way is actually doing them a favor, so nothing would change your mind, anyway.
 
2012-06-14 06:49:37 PM  

DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?

No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.

This trend has been going on for much longer than the last few years, seeing as I went to college in the 90s.

I'll believe it if you show me evidence.


What evidence do you need? It's been going on, quite literally, for all of human existence. And by "it", I mean people's tendency to believe that they work harder than everyone else around them, that their circumstances are what it takes to bring out the best in people and that the younger generations are all shiftless layabouts that just need the same kind of a kick in the butt that they got when they were that age.
 
2012-06-14 06:52:46 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: You're going to be disappointed, I guess. But you're set in the idea that paying someone's way is actually doing them a favor, so nothing would change your mind, anyway.


I've asked for evidence. You don't have any and then simply assert my mind can't be changed. How do you expect me to react to your assertions with absolutely nothing to back them up?
 
2012-06-14 06:53:21 PM  

timujin: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: DamnYankees: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do you really think that "someone else pays for it all" isn't significantly affecting the pace at which children become independent?

No, I really don't. I think the reason its becoming rare for children to become independent is because its exceptionally hard for people to find jobs. Unless you can show me some evidence that people with strong family financial support are actually *less* productive and *more* lazy than people without it, I reject your thesis.

This trend has been going on for much longer than the last few years, seeing as I went to college in the 90s.

I'll believe it if you show me evidence.

What evidence do you need? It's been going on, quite literally, for all of human existence. And by "it", I mean people's tendency to believe that they work harder than everyone else around them, that their circumstances are what it takes to bring out the best in people and that the younger generations are all shiftless layabouts that just need the same kind of a kick in the butt that they got when they were that age.


I see what you did there.
 
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