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(TechGuide)   Want to use IE7 to do your online shopping? That'll be an extra 6.8% dumbass tax then   (techguide.com.au) divider line 97
    More: Amusing, online retailers, Internet Explorer, Google Chrome  
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6246 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2012 at 9:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-14 04:15:50 AM
That article should come with a patriotic soundtrack. Nice cheeky way of making the point to people.
 
2012-06-14 04:55:36 AM
Free-market strategies FTW.
 
2012-06-14 05:25:36 AM
Hey, profit is profit. Some people will go along with this.
 
2012-06-14 06:03:50 AM
I can see their point, but I wonder if there will be some people who will notice the charge, refuse to upgrade and take their business somewhere else.

Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?
 
2012-06-14 06:14:38 AM

Happy Hours: I can see their point, but I wonder if there will be some people who will notice the charge, refuse to upgrade and take their business somewhere else.

Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?


These are the same people that disable all updates and refuse to allow security patches to install. This is because they "know better" than the software companies.

Invariably, I have to speak to some at work. The last one I spoke to was sure that HP, Verizon, Google were all "hacking" his computer, which was causing all the problems he was having. It was because he hadn't updated his OS in years, was running two AV programs, and he had been deleting system files that he "didn't create so they must be spyware".

The most common reason is because people don't like change, even if it's for the better they'll fight it as much as they can.
 
2012-06-14 06:47:25 AM
Is the Hero tag on vacation?
 
2012-06-14 07:03:14 AM
So, let's see. I'm going to guess that the problem Mr. Kogan has with IE7 is that he uses non-compliant cute little tricks on his web site that last year's browser can't handle. Mr. Kogan thinks that is your problem, and he thinks you owe him for making him worry about complying with HTML standards.
 
2012-06-14 07:54:07 AM

This About That: So, let's see. I'm going to guess that the problem Mr. Kogan has with IE7 is that he uses non-compliant cute little tricks on his web site that last year's browser can't handle. Mr. Kogan thinks that is your problem, and he thinks you owe him for making him worry about complying with HTML standards.


You might have a point, if IE7 actually complied with the web standards.
 
2012-06-14 08:11:03 AM
Serious question: Are they within their legal right to do this? My guess would be yes, but I'm not sure.
 
2012-06-14 08:23:07 AM

nekom: Serious question: Are they within their legal right to do this? My guess would be yes, but I'm not sure.


Yes they are

Its called "capitalism". If the buyer does not like the terms, said buyer may walk away from the purchase.
 
2012-06-14 08:42:14 AM
I can imagine some 75 year old codger at home who was given his computer as a gift, and doesn't know the first thing about "upgrading", seeing this screen and gumming his mouth wordlessly in outrage for 20 seconds.

Then writing a letter to the local newspaper editor to biatch about it.

Then calling his son to biatch about it.

Then biatching about it to his next-door neighbour.

Then falling asleep in his La-Z-Boy 10 minutes later and forgetting all about when he wakes up.
 
2012-06-14 08:48:18 AM
Oh man, that is hilarious and great.

Happy Hours: Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?


Government agencies are infamous for using older software products because of all of the effort required to comply with the enormous piles of security standards. Once a software configuration gets accepts, it has incredible staying power.
 
2012-06-14 08:49:17 AM
*accepted
 
2012-06-14 09:23:57 AM

cman: Is the Hero tag on vacation?


So much THIS.


/Web developer.
 
2012-06-14 09:24:44 AM

Ed Finnerty: Happy Hours: I can see their point, but I wonder if there will be some people who will notice the charge, refuse to upgrade and take their business somewhere else.

Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?

These are the same people that disable all updates and refuse to allow security patches to install. This is because they "know better" than the software companies.


I would suppose 95% of people using IE7 fall into one of two categories.

1. People who have to use it for work, because work forces them to use a certain browser
2. People who don't know WTF a web browser is; all they know is "click the e thingie" to get to the "Internet"
 
2012-06-14 09:28:57 AM

Lor M. Ipsum: Oh man, that is hilarious and great.

Happy Hours: Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?

Government agencies are infamous for using older software products because of all of the effort required to comply with the enormous piles of security standards. Once a software configuration gets accepts, it has incredible staying power.


Ummm, no? IE7 is banned on most US government bases due to the security flaws. NIST, keeps a list of vulnerabilities. Once a piece of software has X amount of vulnerabilities, it's banned from government use. Why would any government, even Australia's, want to compromise their security by using software that can be cracked open by any 14 year old with a script?

http://nvd.nist.gov/
 
2012-06-14 09:32:00 AM

Lor M. Ipsum: Government agencies are infamous for using older software products because of all of the effort required to comply with the enormous piles of security standards. Once a software configuration gets accepts, it has incredible staying power.


As someone who was using IE5 last year, I can attest to the truthiness of this.
 
2012-06-14 09:35:31 AM
Wow. A whopping 2.7% use IE7 or IE6. Just throw a banner on the screen that says they need to upgrade and don't allow them to go further. Problem solved.

Assigning a 6.8% "tax" is just stupid and price gouging in my opinion.
 
2012-06-14 09:39:47 AM

Ed Finnerty: These are the same people that disable all updates and refuse to allow security patches to install. This is because they "know better" than the software companies.


They do exist, just like the whackjobs that think we never landed on the moon because we would have come back with cheese, and LBJ worked with the Russians to assassinate JFK after their romantic affair went sour.

aerojockey: I would suppose 95% of people using IE7 fall into one of two categories.

1. People who have to use it for work, because work forces them to use a certain browser
2. People who don't know WTF a web browser is; all they know is "click the e thingie" to get to the "Internet"


This is far more likely, but any awareness is good awareness. I have lost days of my own productivity to coding for IE7, on top of building my sites to live by current web standards. There's a certain amount of functionality that you just have to write off if you want to serve your customers. Not basic web functionality (though IE7 just blows in handling CSS), but the nicer stuff of new standards. This and similar fees will only accelerate the decline of IE7 as companies incorporate things like canvas and video tags, and ditch Flash.

Still, taxes are for governments, this is a fee. There will be some hot water for this.
 
2012-06-14 09:40:56 AM

This About That: So, let's see. I'm going to guess that the problem Mr. Kogan has with IE7 is that he uses non-compliant cute little tricks on his web site that last year's browser can't handle. Mr. Kogan thinks that is your problem, and he thinks you owe him for making him worry about complying with HTML standards.


You've guessed entirely wrong. IE7 is awful at handling web standards properly. It has rendering problems, it doesn't support CSS properly and it has flaws in the way it runs JavaScript. It is notoriously difficult to support both IE7 and browsers that actually have some reasonable level of standards compliance (including IE8 and IE9).

Regardless, it's a five year old browser and it has numerous security issues. Why should anybody continue to support a browser that has been obsolete for five years in an age when upgrading to a new one is as simple as literally not doing anything except leaving the default settings for updates alone.

There is literally no good reason to ever have a copy of IE7 exposed to the public network. If you're a home user, you should just be letting it upgrade on its schedule. If you're a corporate user, your update service should be managing the updates for every users. If you're a corporate user with a crappy internal application the relies on IE7, you should have shot your coders and dropped them in the East River years ago.
 
2012-06-14 09:41:17 AM

incendi: As someone who was using IE5 last year, I can attest to the truthiness of this.


Windows 2000? I am so sorry.
 
2012-06-14 09:41:18 AM
When I start my browser it says 7.01.6001.18372. Is that newer than IE 7 in the article? Or is there newer out there?
 
2012-06-14 09:42:06 AM

justink: Wow. A whopping 2.7% use IE7 or IE6. Just throw a banner on the screen that says they need to upgrade and don't allow them to go further. Problem solved.

Assigning a 6.8% "tax" is just stupid and price gouging in my opinion.


Your solution is to not let them in at all. Their solution is to offer the consumer a choice. How is your solution better?
 
2012-06-14 09:43:23 AM

justink: Wow. A whopping 2.7% use IE7 or IE6. Just throw a banner on the screen that says they need to upgrade and don't allow them to go further. Problem solved.

Assigning a 6.8% "tax" is just stupid and price gouging in my opinion.


So they still allow you to purchase your goods and give you the choice, upgrade or pay a little more and that makes them the bad guys? It seems to me they are being reasonable.
 
2012-06-14 09:44:44 AM

degenerate-afro: Lor M. Ipsum: Oh man, that is hilarious and great.

Happy Hours: Why wouldn't you just upgrade? I have no idea, but why haven't some people already upgraded?

Government agencies are infamous for using older software products because of all of the effort required to comply with the enormous piles of security standards. Once a software configuration gets accepts, it has incredible staying power.

Ummm, no? IE7 is banned on most US government bases due to the security flaws. NIST, keeps a list of vulnerabilities. Once a piece of software has X amount of vulnerabilities, it's banned from government use. Why would any government, even Australia's, want to compromise their security by using software that can be cracked open by any 14 year old with a script?

http://nvd.nist.gov/


Does said ban require users to not use their computer if it has IE7? I imagine it merely stops new purchases/installations of buggy HW/SW.
 
2012-06-14 09:49:47 AM
Does Kroger have the power to "tax", as it's clearly labeled? Surcharge or upcharge or user fee, sure. But calling it a tax might be trouble down the line for them.

Personally, I don't buy from any site that doesn't prominently feature blinking text.
 
2012-06-14 09:51:31 AM
I use Bonzi Buddy to do all of my online shopping.

No 6.8% tax for me!
 
2012-06-14 09:59:30 AM

The Smails Kid: I use Bonzi Buddy to do all of my online shopping.

No 6.8% tax for me!


My alligator eats your purple monkey.
 
2012-06-14 10:00:02 AM

The Smails Kid: I use Bonzi Buddy to do all of my online shopping.

No 6.8% tax for me!


You can't be serious. Bonzi Buddy was outed as some of the worst spy/malware YEARS ago. If you want a shopping helper, use Gator eWallet.
 
2012-06-14 10:01:01 AM

cptjeff: That article should come with a patriotic soundtrack. Nice cheeky way of making the point to people.


A point that could be easily misinterpreted, tho.
What stops someone from imposing a tax for mobile browsers or against competitors they don't like?

The beauty of the web is when it works with multiple systems, even outdated ones. If we start to cordon it off by charging different prices or blocking access to browsers/companies we don't like, who knows where it will stop.
 
2012-06-14 10:02:18 AM

degenerate-afro: Why would any government, even Australia's, want to compromise their security by using software that can be cracked open by any 14 year old with a script?


The entire National Probation Service in the UK uses Internet Explorer 6. There are no plans to change this and in the last week the BBC website has stopped working on it.

That should be enough of an embarrassment to promote change, but unfortunately governments have a habit of entering into such restrictive IT contracts (such as ours with Steria) - seemingly crafted by IT illiterates - which ensure contractor's aren't obligated to do a thing to upgrade or improve services for users beyond what they had at the start of the contract (let alone allow us to access probation partners websites - most local drug and alcohol service websites are blocked to us thanks to websense). If you request a site be unblocked, Steria then tells you you must wait 6 months for the change to take effect.

As for this site, if I don't make the window open full size before Fark loads, the browser freaks out then hangs.
 
2012-06-14 10:02:45 AM
I'm surprised ThinkGeek didn't do this first.
 
2012-06-14 10:03:11 AM

way south: The beauty of the web is when it works with multiple systems, even outdated ones.


And the reason that the web works with multiple systems is that they adhere to published standards. You know, completely unlike IE7
 
2012-06-14 10:09:29 AM
Used to work for a bunch of farggin' iceholes which had a tonne of homebrewed apps that required IE6 to run correctly. Attempting to run on another browser would break them. Even spoofing the User-Agent string didn't work (which has in the past due to some REALLY useless coders who just didn't want to deal with supporting other browers). At times, holding an open flame under my forearm was needed just for a happy thought while dealing with those smegheads.
 
2012-06-14 10:10:00 AM

ChrisDe: Does Kroger have the power to "tax", as it's clearly labeled? Surcharge or upcharge or user fee, sure. But calling it a tax might be trouble down the line for them.

Personally, I don't buy from any site that doesn't prominently feature blinking text.


this. 1.) the government will want this tax. 2.) stop giving the government ideas about what to tax.
 
2012-06-14 10:13:29 AM

Splinshints:
Your solution is to not let them in at all. Their solution is to offer the consumer a choice. How is your solution better?


I've run into that solution many times. Not due to running an old browser, but because I run one they don't like. One website I visit requires I be running IE. Chrome doesn't work (even with the IE add-on). Same with some state websites my coworkers visit. They require IE. Chrome, Opera, Firefox do not work. How many times have you visited a website and it says you need to upgrade flash to view the content? They are doing the same thing. Upgrade or you can't visit/view content.

I just don't like the idea of charging a "tax" because of running an outdated program (or unsupported). Just come out and state that you don't support the version that the visitor is using. Eventually when there are enough bugs & errors, they will upgrade.
 
2012-06-14 10:16:57 AM

cman: nekom: Serious question: Are they within their legal right to do this? My guess would be yes, but I'm not sure.

Yes they are

Its called "capitalism". If the buyer does not like the terms, said buyer may walk away from the purchase.


Sure, but I just wonder if there is some specific consumer protection law against excessive fees or fees for no reason out there. My guess would be that it's perfectly legal, but there are a lot of strange laws out there.
 
2012-06-14 10:19:07 AM

Splinshints: Your solution is to not let them in at all. Their solution is to offer the consumer a choice. How is your solution better?


Oh, and they do have a choice. They can upgrade or leave. A consumer always has a choice. My choice will be to avoid that site.
 
2012-06-14 10:19:10 AM
So using Lynx as a browser is still free?
 
2012-06-14 10:19:54 AM

This About That: So, let's see. I'm going to guess that the problem Mr. Kogan has with IE7 is that he uses non-compliant cute little tricks on his web site that last year's browser can't handle. Mr. Kogan thinks that is your problem, and he thinks you owe him for making him worry about complying with HTML standards.


The problem with IE7 is that you have to use non-compliant cute little tricks to get things to work right in it. It's not nearly as bad as IE 6 in that regard, but any other browser, including IE8 or 9, is a vast improvement.
 
2012-06-14 10:22:06 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: So using Lynx as a browser is still free?


Can I use Jaws with it?
 
2012-06-14 10:25:12 AM
I salute you Kogan. I'm including a page on my site for IE6 browsers to be redirected to that berates them and offers links to upgrade. I think I'll make it IE7 and below now.
 
2012-06-14 10:25:24 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: So using Lynx as a browser is still free?


I was thinking the same thing. Also, what about Netscape Navigator or AOL?
 
2012-06-14 10:34:16 AM

justink: Vlad_the_Inaner: So using Lynx as a browser is still free?

I was thinking the same thing. Also, what about Netscape Navigator or AOL?


It should be possible to set up a site to let through only the browsers you want. You could even redirect screen-reading browsers to a more blind user-friendly version.

Of course, if you were capable of doing this as a web developer or administrator, you probably wouldn't need to do it.
 
2012-06-14 10:37:45 AM

justink: Oh, and they do have a choice. They can upgrade or leave. A consumer always has a choice. My choice will be to avoid that site.


The approach used here also allows those options.... again... how is your more limited, more restrictive approach better than their more open approach that gives consumers more choices? I don't understand your point. Are you arguing that it would be better if consumers had fewer options?
 
2012-06-14 10:40:26 AM
I wonder what their Telnet tax is.
 
2012-06-14 10:41:31 AM
jacomputers.org

Shepard.
 
2012-06-14 10:46:41 AM

improvius: cman: Is the Hero tag on vacation?

So much THIS.

/Web developer.


Seconded.

/and seconded.
 
2012-06-14 10:47:38 AM
If you are such a dumbass that you still use infernal exploiter, you deserve a higher stupid tax than 6.8%.
 
2012-06-14 10:50:11 AM

digidorm: When I start my browser it says 7.01.6001.18372. Is that newer than IE 7 in the article? Or is there newer out there?


Not sure if troll or legit question.... but yes, you are out of date and should update. Google "how to update internet explorer" and do those things. IE 9 is now out, you are on IE7. Or try Firefox or chrome if you feel adventurous.
 
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