If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Globe and Mail)   Not News: Teacher aids students with helpful dissection film. Fark: It's not biology class, it's history and citizenship; and the dissection film is a snuff film   (theglobeandmail.com) divider line 118
    More: Sick, current affairs, Queen's University, supply teacher, education minister, undergraduate students, obscenity  
•       •       •

13681 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2012 at 2:54 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



118 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-06-14 01:05:12 AM  
Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?
 
2012-06-14 01:11:19 AM  
Is Montreal becoming the Florida of Canada?
 
2012-06-14 01:44:42 AM  
The kids voted, it was a current events class.

The teacher's an idiot, but by high school? I mean they're 16 year old and Canadian. I'd say punish the teacher but don't fire him. Better the school provides such things than let the wander off the bestgore and look it up themselves.
 
2012-06-14 01:58:23 AM  
This is beyond sick.
 
2012-06-14 02:49:51 AM  
No Lorelle, it's college level work in a high school.

Back in the day, 14 year old boys were drumming orders and marches for soldiers getting torn to bits by miniball and cannon fire in Virginia. Humans can deal with seeing such things.

But this teacher is an idiot. If it's your teen, and they want to do this, you can let them or realize they'll be on google on their iphone soon as you turn their back. But as a teacher, you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.

He shoulda played this like: take the vote, agree to show the video "if I can." Then come in the next day with a good movie, say "Sorry I couldn't get permission. Here's a different movie, let's watch."

But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.
 
2012-06-14 02:58:12 AM  

TsarTom: And what the hell is a supply teacher?


British for substitute teacher.
 
2012-06-14 02:58:53 AM  

doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.


why do they need to see that, or any other video?
 
2012-06-14 02:59:46 AM  
I took a class called Deviant Behavior in college. People would leave the room to vomit. A girl fainted after he showed us a picture of a guy who committed suicide by laying down on an electric saw.

/oh, he also showed us just what Kurt Cobain looked like after he blew his head off
 
2012-06-14 03:04:00 AM  

TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?


According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?
 
2012-06-14 03:05:26 AM  

proteus_b: doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.

why do they need to see that, or any other video?


Why does anyone need to learn anything?

/your question was stupid.
 
2012-06-14 03:05:27 AM  
An instructor at my college showed an al-qaeda beheading video to an unsuspecting class. Wasn't in the class. Don't remember the subject, but it wasn't PoliSci or anything at all close. Chemistry maybe? Said something like "This is George Bush's fault." She was quickly let go.
 
2012-06-14 03:07:25 AM  
When I was 15 in 10th grade, my U.S. History teacher showed us the video this still is from:

www.blogcdn.com

He told us to pay close attention to the blood. It shot up from the guy's head in a big fountain.
 
2012-06-14 03:08:34 AM  

TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?


dennisjudd.com
 
2012-06-14 03:09:47 AM  

proteus_b: doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.

why do they need to see that, or any other video?


Well, when having an academic discussion of current affairs, being able to see the thing you're discussion can be helpful. Same with pictures of wars. Last I checked, there are a lot of famous photos of the Vietnam War, WWII, Korea, the Civil War, and so on that show dead people or people being killed. Should we ban that too?

We're not talking kindergarteners here. These are high school students, perfectly capable of understanding the context and seriousness of the video. They made a conscious choice to view it. But that doesn't matter when we're going off on a "for the children" bit, regardless of the fact that it was the "children" who wanted to see the thing in the first place.
 
2012-06-14 03:10:51 AM  

cptjeff: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?


Nothing

I think it is great that he is treating his students like adults. Teachers who treat their students with respect normally are idolized. If I like a professor, I put forth 110%. If I just want to pass the class I do what is needed to get 90.01%.

/seriously, wtf is a supply teacher?
 
2012-06-14 03:11:40 AM  

doglover: No Lorelle, it's college level work in a high school.

Back in the day, 14 year old boys were drumming orders and marches for soldiers getting torn to bits by miniball and cannon fire in Virginia. Humans can deal with seeing such things.

But this teacher is an idiot. If it's your teen, and they want to do this, you can let them or realize they'll be on google on their iphone soon as you turn their back. But as a teacher, you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.

He shoulda played this like: take the vote, agree to show the video "if I can." Then come in the next day with a good movie, say "Sorry I couldn't get permission. Here's a different movie, let's watch."

But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.


Dude. I usually think you wear the "manage to make weird shiat sound reasonable" hat pretty well most of the time. You're dead wrong on this. Social pressure is farking intense, particularly for teenagers. There's no way to gauge how many kids felt freaked about it in the first place- never mind the fact that most adults I know would rather not watch someone being murdered and cannibalized. Hell, plenty of high school kids don't even like gory Hollywood movies. The Internet exists, and the kids who wanted to see this either already had, or would have no problem being able to, on their own, after the class discussion.

As a teacher of minors, you NEVER leave something that questionable up to the prevailing winds in a public school classroom. University, fine, knock yourself out, but even that should be optional. A thorough education is possible without having to watch one of your fellow human beings get butchered like a pig.

You totally know better, and I grant that you're pretty decent at playing devil's advocate around here, even about particularly weird shiat, but if you really believe what you're saying, for the first time I question your fitness to teach kids.
 
2012-06-14 03:13:03 AM  

TsarTom: a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten?


Dumb and Dahmer?
 
2012-06-14 03:13:51 AM  
On the one hand: they're high schoolers, they've probably seen some pretty bad stuff on the internet. Plus, they voted on it. I think I was a junior in high school when I saw that very NSFW video involving two women and a drinking vessel. Kids like to explore the internet at that age. I bet most of them have at least seen 4chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica, not to mention porn...

On the other hand: it's a farking snuff film. It shows the cold-blooded murder of an innocent man. Not just his murder, but his mutilation, dismemberment and the possible cannibalization of his corpse. If they want to watch it on their own time, fine. But I don't think it belongs in a classroom. And the vote? I bet a bunch of people raised their hands so that they didn't look uncool...

So, I'm kind of split (no pun intended) on this. If they want to see it, fine. But let them watch it on their own time.
 
2012-06-14 03:15:09 AM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

[dennisjudd.com image 512x290]


GAH! Came to say exactly *this*
 
2012-06-14 03:16:05 AM  
Ric Romero would like to mention that it's not always in a teacher's best interests to do whatever the kids in the class would like the adult to do.
 
2012-06-14 03:16:15 AM  
What the fark. People are defending this. By this logic, high school kids should be watching porn in their health class. University level human sexuality class, fine. A university classroom and a public school classroom full of minors aren't just different points on a continuum.
 
2012-06-14 03:18:26 AM  
And it's not on Rotten yet.

Honestly, that main site never updates. Just the news and the the deadpool.
 
2012-06-14 03:19:21 AM  
Well, just so long as no one saw a female nipple.
 
2012-06-14 03:20:34 AM  

Precision Boobery: When I was 15 in 10th grade, my U.S. History teacher showed us the video this still is from:

[www.blogcdn.com image 456x304]

He told us to pay close attention to the blood. It shot up from the guy's head in a big fountain.


I would understand that, as it's historical. But this? Just some sicko's snuff film?
 
2012-06-14 03:22:18 AM  
Also, when I emphasize "minors," I'm talking about legal definitions for the sake of liability. No, of course I don't think that a magic spell is cast at age 18 that suddenly prepares you for exposure to mature or graphic content. I'm not talking about the fact that the kids may not be emotionally ready to process it. I'm saying that the number one rule for adults teaching minors on the public dime should be "cover your farking ass." This isn't showing respect for his students' maturity- it's fairly green young teacher who wants the approval of his class.
 
2012-06-14 03:24:36 AM  
I was a current events teacher in Korea (1st-6th). My students unanimously voted to watch things I wouldn't show them on a daily basis. For some reason, number 1 on their list was "The Walking Dead". By far.

But more on the subject of current events, they wanted to see Ghaddaffi's bloody corpse, Osama's corpse (the day it happened, a couple pictures were circulated that, of course, later turned out to be fake), people being murdered in Syria, etc. They'd go home, read the Chosun Ilbo newspaper, and then come to class with a bunch of adult news items. War, rape, murder, genocide, the whole nine yards.

It was difficult to keep a cap on it at times because they ALL had access to the internet through their mobile devices during free period, but the fact of the matter is that this "supply teacher" (what is that?) showed classic bad judgment.

/getting a kick, etc.
 
2012-06-14 03:25:59 AM  

Fair_Poopsmith: Dude. I usually think you wear the "manage to make weird shiat sound reasonable" hat pretty well most of the time. You're dead wrong on this. Social pressure is farking intense, particularly for teenagers. There's no way to gauge how many kids felt freaked about it in the first place- never mind the fact that most adults I know would rather not watch someone being murdered and cannibalized. Hell, plenty of high school kids don't even like gory Hollywood movies. The Internet exists, and the kids who wanted to see this either already had, or would have no problem being able to, on their own, after the class discussion.


I remember my high school days. Me, Scooter, Ollie (The Beaver), and that kid who sold doses were always voting. I didn't want to vote but they made me.
 
2012-06-14 03:34:18 AM  
He showed very poor judgement in the legal sense, yes.

Unfortunately, that's the only kind of sense that's come to being known nowadays.

Should the student be shown this? No, it's not going to help them in any way, in the long run.

Could the student see something like this at any point in their life, first hand, regardless of the situation? Yes, so you might as well not sugarcoat it now, it's not going to help them later.

Life sucks and then you die, get over it.
 
2012-06-14 03:37:48 AM  
Don't show this sort of thing in schools: That's what TV and theatre entertainment are for.
 
2012-06-14 03:41:36 AM  
given a consequence free environment i'm sure a typical classroom of high school students could muster up a bit of the old ultra violence
 
2012-06-14 03:45:32 AM  

Quark_Quasar: He showed very poor judgement in the legal sense, yes.

Unfortunately, that's the only kind of sense that's come to being known nowadays.

Should the student be shown this? No, it's not going to help them in any way, in the long run.

Could the student see something like this at any point in their life, first hand, regardless of the situation? Yes, so you might as well not sugarcoat it now
, it's not going to help them later.

Life sucks and then you die, get over it.


This is how I interpreted your message:

Should the students be shown a snuff film? No, but not because it's wrong - because it would be pointless to their development. But you NEED to show them anything they could possibly see at any point in their life now, including snuff films, because if you don't you're "sugarcoating" how bad life sucks and how inevitable death is.

Neat. Super neat. Simultaneous, self contradicting beliefs:

1. Don't show them the film - it's "not going to help them."
2. Don't NOT show them the film - that's sugarcoating (reality?) and it's "not going to help them later."

At this point I'm absolutely certain I've misunderstood your post.
 
2012-06-14 03:46:27 AM  
I saw Faces of Death when I was ten, but the most disgusting thing I've ever watched was in a public school in 10th grade. It was a full color film of a human being born. A full-on shot of some stranger's hairy twat, lathered in blood. Then, the crowning...her pushing it out this pale, warped, creepy alien...the gush of amniotic fluid and blood...the afterbirth...

That was before widespread internet access.

They discussed it, there was a vote, there were warnings. I have to seriously doubt anyone who claims to have been traumatized by this, but if they were, it's their own fault.
 
2012-06-14 03:55:21 AM  
FTFA:
"Benjamin Kutsyuruba, a professor in the Queen's University faculty of education, noted that the website that originally hosted the video is potentially facing obscenity charges. "

So you may view the kids as adults (they're not) and the kids may have been able to find it themselves online (if they had already found and viewed it they would not have been asking the guy to show it in class) but you cannot possibly think that showing (even potentially) obscene material to high school kids is OK. Unless you're an idiot.

/I am guessing Lin Jun's family wouldn't think it was cool.
 
2012-06-14 03:55:49 AM  

Wayne 985: Precision Boobery: When I was 15 in 10th grade, my U.S. History teacher showed us the video this still is from:

[www.blogcdn.com image 456x304]

He told us to pay close attention to the blood. It shot up from the guy's head in a big fountain.

I would understand that, as it's historical. But this? Just some sicko's snuff film?


So if there had been video of a honeypot--some gut-shot GI whom they left screaming on the jungle floor in order to pick off the guys who come to help him--that'd be all right "as it's historical"?

Wouldn't the Daniel Pearl video be historical?
 
2012-06-14 03:56:19 AM  

cptjeff: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?


Well I'm sure 2girls1cup may come up in a discussion too- but come on, this isn't a democracy. You don't get to vote on where the class goes when it's utterly off-topic, teacher needs to grow a pair. Reluctant? Offering a chance to leave the room? How about just not caving to your student's whims?

So he wasted some class time- it's not like he really corrupted anyone here though.
 
2012-06-14 03:58:22 AM  
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2012-06-14 04:06:39 AM  

proteus_b: doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.

why do they need to see that, or any other video?


Not at all. But like the kid they interviewed it said: they will.

This is why I'd like to see high school nixed. Middle school should be the end of grade schoolHigh school is just a giant doledrums in the education process. It's not quite serious enough for good students and not quite easy enough for kids who don't care. It's like a great big junior college

But like I said, if there's even a QUESTION something might be offensive, don't bring it in and if the kids get it say the principal says no. Always pass that buck, so you look like the cool guy even if you're the one not bringing in the offensive stuff.

A snuff film to nearly voters isn't ZOMG think of the children! kind of scary, though. People get hurt and die. I saw my neighbor's femur pokin' out when she got hit by a car at 6 years old. 16 is old enough to talk to deal with something bad. Plus, in 2012 they can and will find it online themselves in a minute if they so desire.

The part of this story I find infuriating is that the teacher greenlit it. They took a vote, kids were allowed to leave, yeah, but a classroom is NOT a democracy. You are not in control, the teacher is. One man, one vote. He's the man, he gets the vote. That's why you put the kaibosh on bad stuff as a teacher. I'd LOVE to teach certain topics to the teenagers I work with as an English teacher. I know EXACTLY which words would make the kids who can't even say "I like to play soccer." correctly after 3 years sit up and become the most fluent speakers around. But I can't do that because it's a PUBLIC school. It's not worth my job to save my students three minutes with a keyboard and google. If they want it, they can look for themselves.

Like I said before, in this guy's shoes I'd have said "Okay, we'll watch it if we can. I'll check tomorrow." then the next day just brought in a good movie relevant to class. "Sorry, couldn't do it kids.But hey, let's watch this." Simple power trick, they're happy and you're employed and now you're the cool teacher because you "were" going to bend the rules a little. Easy peasy. It's a layup of a life decision.

I still don't think this teacher should be fired for it, though. Mistakes are how we learn. If he's dangled on the chopping block so close his neck hairs brush the wood and then yanked back into the fold, I promise you he's not making a mistake like this ever again.
 
2012-06-14 04:07:29 AM  
harryallen.info
 
2012-06-14 04:10:50 AM  
I remember a computer teacher, in 8th grade, made the comment that it was, "OK to show the Daniel Pearl video" to high school seniors. Because apparently that happened.

But then I said (having heard my brother talk about it), "But it's a horrible video. They basically saw the guy's head off."

She got angry at me because, I guess I was discussing stuff that was too graphic, all that.. I was really confused and even then thought it was ironic.

/Also, I don't think this is appropriate for a high school classroom. Kids are still their parents babies and good luck getting the parents to shut the hell up. College, in certain classes, yes.
 
2012-06-14 04:12:24 AM  
FTA: The video shows a suspect believed to be Luka Magnotta stabbing and dismembering another man. It also depicts the suspect engaged in sexual acts involving body parts and includes evidence of cannibalism

As with the Sandusky trial and its disturbing details, it should be noted that these behaviors arent exclusive to gay men alone.

Had their fathers not treated them so terribly, it's likely they could have lived lives, deviancy aside, as good as any normal man.
 
2012-06-14 04:15:29 AM  

doglover: No Lorelle, it's college level work in a high school.

Back in the day, 14 year old boys were drumming orders and marches for soldiers getting torn to bits by miniball and cannon fire in Virginia. Humans can deal with seeing such things.

But this teacher is an idiot. If it's your teen, and they want to do this, you can let them or realize they'll be on google on their iphone soon as you turn their back. But as a teacher, you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.


That's not entirely true, now is it.
 
2012-06-14 04:16:46 AM  

Fair_Poopsmith: As a teacher of minors, you NEVER leave something that questionable up to the prevailing winds in a public school classroom.


Every student gets a vote. And all the votes of all the students in all the classrooms in the whole district don't add up to a vole's flatulence against and single vote from the teacher.

It was dumb of him to show it, but the "kids" in that class will be fine. Or if they are damaged, it will be because of teacher getting in trouble as much as seeing something anyone who type the letter b into Google would be able to sauce in an instant.

It would be a shame for his life to be ruined over what's essentially the equivalent of using tablespoons instead of teaspoons in a recipe on accident. Demoted, yelled at, forced to go to training, sure. Even changing schools. But fired? He's not gonna do it again.
 
2012-06-14 04:17:51 AM  

cptjeff: proteus_b: doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.

why do they need to see that, or any other video?

Well, when having an academic discussion of current affairs, being able to see the thing you're discussion can be helpful. Same with pictures of wars. Last I checked, there are a lot of famous photos of the Vietnam War, WWII, Korea, the Civil War, and so on that show dead people or people being killed. Should we ban that too?


I see a big difference between still photos of wars and a motion picture displaying torture, murder and mutilation. Even if you upgrade the still photos of war scenes to video of that Vietnamese guy being shot it still has historical more significance than some unknown guy killing another unknown guy.

It's often said that what has been seen cannot be unseen. I'm not sure what one could learn from seeing this snuff film that discussing it wouldn't also teach. The votes to watch it were probably out of morbid rather than intellectual curiosity.


We're not talking kindergarteners here. These are high school students, perfectly capable of understanding the context and seriousness of the video. They made a conscious choice to view it. But that doesn't matter when we're going off on a "for the children" bit, regardless of the fact that it was the "children" who wanted to see the thing in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...Kids want to see lots of things and you could use the umbrella of "current events" to excuse anything including the latest scat fetish porn hitting the internet today. Personally, I would rather high school students focus more on current events with more economic or historic impact than this.

Oh, and as an aside I find it somewhat disturbing that so much of the class wanted to see it. I don't want to see it. I also haven't watched an entire Al Qaeda decapitation video and have managed to have never seen 2 girls, 1 cup. I don't think my education is lacking from missing out on any of those things
 
2012-06-14 04:26:11 AM  

Coming on a Bicycle: doglover: No Lorelle, it's college level work in a high school.

Back in the day, 14 year old boys were drumming orders and marches for soldiers getting torn to bits by miniball and cannon fire in Virginia. Humans can deal with seeing such things.

But this teacher is an idiot. If it's your teen, and they want to do this, you can let them or realize they'll be on google on their iphone soon as you turn their back. But as a teacher, you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.

That's not entirely true, now is it.


Yes it is.

Rather, as a good teacher you should cuss at your students and occasionally smack them with a stick if they're especially stubborn until they prove their aptitude and diligence by not running away. Eventually you'll only have one or two. Then you strip away their layers of delusion one by one, often dramatically, yelling all the way and making their lives a living hell in the process at least part of the time with practices and work. In the end, you teach them almost all your tricks, learn a lot about yourself in the process, and they should be coming into their own and surpassing you at something, if not everything. THAT is the educational method history shows seems to work the best. If it wasn't, people wouldn't always be fondly recalling that character in their childhood.

But when you're an employee of a public school? You have more bosses than students, and you have a LOT of students, most of whom don't care for you or your class. Your job is to reach as many as possible without stepping on any toes. If that means not teaching kids the meaning of the rap song they bring in, or not showing excerpts of a snuff film just because it's breaking news, so be it. Do what you're told and don't lose your job.
 
2012-06-14 04:33:07 AM  
This A-hole "supply" teacher should be immediately volunteered for a sequel video.
 
2012-06-14 04:37:36 AM  
TsarTom Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten?

To warn them about riding on Greyhound of Canada Link

Jadedgrl /oh, he also showed us just what Kurt Cobain looked like after he blew his head off

was this class on Internet hoaxes? It was probably that Ministry album cover
 
2012-06-14 04:53:05 AM  
So the adults are all running about worried about their little snowflakes and the kids are all "Meh, we see stuff like this all the time"

ffs, grow up adults!
 
2012-06-14 04:53:44 AM  

Oznog: cptjeff: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?

Well I'm sure 2girls1cup may come up in a discussion too- but come on, this isn't a democracy. You don't get to vote on where the class goes when it's utterly off-topic, teacher needs to grow a pair. Reluctant? Offering a chance to leave the room? How about just not caving to your student's whims?

So he wasted some class time- it's not like he really corrupted anyone here though.


In my mind, education is a collaborative thing. A teacher standing up talking to a disinterested class does absolutely no good for anybody. Those students are basically adults, and I can guarantee you that they resent being patronized, and they're right in that. The video was absolutely relevant to the topic already at hand, from all accounts (by people in the room, who are all defending him), and the class collectively decided that they could handle watching it. That's enough for me, and should be enough for anybody. A group of mature humans, in the context of an existing discussion deemed appropriate for a current affairs class, after several cautions and warnings, decided that watching the original material would be helpful to their education.


Happy Hours: Yeah, yeah, yeah...Kids want to see lots of things and you could use the umbrella of "current events" to excuse anything including the latest scat fetish porn hitting the internet today. Personally, I would rather high school students focus more on current events with more economic or historic impact than this.

Oh, and as an aside I find it somewhat disturbing that so much of the class wanted to see it. I don't want to see it. I also haven't watched an entire Al Qaeda decapitation video and have managed to have never seen 2 girls, 1 cup. I don't think my education is lacking from missing out on any of those things



The discussion of this has been widespread in popular circles as well as in just about every from of news media. This isn't some isolated fetish in the dark shadow world. It's perfectly legitimate for a current affairs class to be discussing something that's been plastered all over the news for the past couple of weeks.

And as an aside, I would argue that your education and understanding of world events is limited by not seeing videos like this. Seeing people killed in Vietnam really brought home the impact of the war to a huge number of people. If you isolate yourself from stuff like the Daniel Pearl video, you're probably not getting a full grasp on a lot of important stuff happening that happens to be incredibly distasteful.

You say that what has been seen can't be unseen. I would argue that's the point. I would also argue that the students in that room decided, after repeated warnings, that they were emotionally mature enough to handle it. And if they weren't, they probably just took a step or two up in that department. They made their choice, now they get to learn how to deal with it. The world ain't a pretty place, and it's good to be prepared for that.

Have I seen this video? No, and I don't plan to. But I'm a fan of Mills in this regard- you don't get to judge the value of something like this. Any censorship is an affront- there has to be a robust exchange of ideas, and no matter what value to a current events course you think the topic or material itself may have, you don't get to shut it down on your whims. The people in the room thought it would be of value in understanding the event and the news coverage surrounding it, so they get to watch the video. In my mind, that's the end of it. It was in an educational setting, so you get to make sure it's not wildly off topic. It wasn't.

You're really not far from banning books. Are you in favor of removing Huckleberry Finn from high school libraries because you're uncomfortable with some of the language it contains? 1984? Harry Potter? Lolita? It's a book about a guy raping a young girl, there's no way that can have any educational value whatsoever, right? I mean, anybody who lets a high schooler even know of that book's existence should be fired, right? Absolutely not appropriate.

You don't get to censor things you find icky. And I'm seriously offended that you think you do.
 
2012-06-14 04:59:18 AM  
Fore those asking, let me google that for you:

A substitute teacher is a person who teaches a school class when the regular teacher is unavailable; e.g., because of illness, personal leave, or other reasons. "Substitute teacher" (usually abbreviated as "sub") is the most commonly used phrase in the United States, Canada and Ireland, while supply teacher is the most commonly used term in Great Britain. Common synonyms for substitute teacher include relief teacher or casual teacher (used in Australia and New Zealand) and "emergency teacher" (used in the United States). Other terms, such as "guest teacher", are also used by some schools or districts. Regional variants in terminology are common, such as the use of the term teacher on call (T.O.C.) in the Canadian province of British Columbia and occasional or supply teacher in the Canadian province of Ontario.
 
2012-06-14 05:25:44 AM  

cptjeff: The discussion of this has been widespread in popular circles as well as in just about every from of news media. This isn't some isolated fetish in the dark shadow world. It's perfectly legitimate for a current affairs class to be discussing something that's been plastered all over the news for the past couple of weeks.


Plastered all over the news? I've seen it mentioned, but not plastered and I watch a fair amount of news coverage as well as read it on the internet. Kim Kardashian often gets plastered all over the news too - perhaps the class could be watching her show too.

From what I've seen the violence in Syria and economic problems in Greece and Spain are what have really been plastered all over the news lately and those things will have a much greater impact on the world. I'm not saying they shouldn't discuss this at all, but this sounds like a substitute teacher who got called to fill in one day and didn't have a clue as to what to teach so he went with whatever the kids wanted.

And as an aside, I would argue that your education and understanding of world events is limited by not seeing videos like this. Seeing people killed in Vietnam really brought home the impact of the war to a huge number of people. If you isolate yourself from stuff like the Daniel Pearl video, you're probably not getting a full grasp on a lot of important stuff happening that happens to be incredibly distasteful.

I didn't watch the entire Daniel Pearl murder - I saw enough of it. I'm really not sure what I would have gotten out of seeing every gory, torturous second out of it. Would it dehumanize terrorists more in my eyes? I doubt it. Would I sympathize with Al Qaeda or understand their position better? I don't think so.


You say that what has been seen can't be unseen. I would argue that's the point. I would also argue that the students in that room decided, after repeated warnings, that they were emotionally mature enough to handle it. And if they weren't, they probably just took a step or two up in that department. They made their choice, now they get to learn how to deal with it. The world ain't a pretty place, and it's good to be prepared for that.

Have I seen this video? No, and I don't plan to.


Then are't you limiting your understanding of it?

But I'm a fan of Mills in this regard- you don't get to judge the value of something like this. Any censorship is an affront- there has to be a robust exchange of ideas, and no matter what value to a current events course you think the topic or material itself may have, you don't get to shut it down on your whims. The people in the room thought it would be of value in understanding the event and the news coverage surrounding it, so they get to watch the video. In my mind, that's the end of it. It was in an educational setting, so you get to make sure it's not wildly off topic. It wasn't.

You're really not far from banning books. Are you in favor of removing Huckleberry Finn from high school libraries because you're uncomfortable with some of the language it contains? 1984? Harry Potter? Lolita? It's a book about a guy raping a young girl, there's no way that can have any educational value whatsoever, right? I mean, anybody who lets a high schooler even know of that book's existence should be fired, right? Absolutely not appropriate.

You don't get to censor things you find icky. And I'm seriously offended that you think you do.


Oh really? I'm not in favor of banning any books or even video. There's a difference between censorship and choosing what to show in a school. Why don't they spend a couple of weeks studying the Unabomber's manifesto? He was in the news a lot longer than this case. He killed more people, had a greater impact and had a twisted social/political motivation behind his attacks.

If Sandusky had videotaped his sexual exploits with kids, should that have been shown? After all, how can we really grasp what he did if we can't see it?
 
2012-06-14 05:36:05 AM  
I can't understand why people use the "they're going to see it anyway" line..

Why don't we give them drugs, because many of them will try it anyways?

In school, you're supposed to learn, and read, and talk. And I think a graphic description of the video should be more than enough to get a proper discussion going, which I hope was the idea of this teacher.

Yes, they'll probably find this stuff themselves on the internet, but that doesn't mean that you should show it to them.
Thanks to the internet and 24/7 News channels, everything can be a "current event".
 
2012-06-14 05:47:35 AM  

Norwegian Squirrel: I can't understand why people use the "they're going to see it anyway" line..

Why don't we give them drugs, because many of them will try it anyways?

In school, you're supposed to learn, and read, and talk. And I think a graphic description of the video should be more than enough to get a proper discussion going, which I hope was the idea of this teacher.

Yes, they'll probably find this stuff themselves on the internet, but that doesn't mean that you should show it to them.




Exactly. Make the buggers work for their contraband like everybody else.

My dad and I gutted more than enough fish by the time I was 16 to realize what was what with the ol' meatbody and cirlce of life. It's easy enough to imagine if you've see A stomach was YOUR stomach would look like on the outside. You don't need much more than than that image in your head.

While there is an educational benefit to snuff films in general, it's mostly their existence itself, rather than the contents of the video, that have this value. You don't have to see "Three kids one screwdriver" to have a meaningful discussion on psychopaths.

And like I said before, it's your job if you offend someone. The hardest shiat I will show in a public school is Wallace and Grommit. Anything more racey than that and I'll find something else.
 
2012-06-14 06:12:17 AM  

Fair_Poopsmith: What the fark. People are defending this. By this logic, high school kids should be watching porn in their health class. University level human sexuality class, fine. A university classroom and a public school classroom full of minors aren't just different points on a continuum.


There is a TV show in the UK (Link) it highlights how they teach sex education there (at least for the TV show)......showing actual nude people.....talking about porn and it's unrealistic expectations it places on people, showing teen females the various stages of erections, what women go through during pregnancy, condoms, STDs.....amazingly they don't have the epidemic that the US has with teen pregnancy...amazing huh. We glorify it with Teen Mom and whatever other stupid shows they have about profiting from being a teen harlot.
 
2012-06-14 06:26:04 AM  
I dare say it taught them a thing or two about life.
 
2012-06-14 06:28:32 AM  

OhioUGrad: Fair_Poopsmith: What the fark. People are defending this. By this logic, high school kids should be watching porn in their health class. University level human sexuality class, fine. A university classroom and a public school classroom full of minors aren't just different points on a continuum.

There is a TV show in the UK (Link) it highlights how they teach sex education there (at least for the TV show)......showing actual nude people.....talking about porn and it's unrealistic expectations it places on people, showing teen females the various stages of erections, what women go through during pregnancy, condoms, STDs.....amazingly they don't have the epidemic that the US has with teen pregnancy...amazing huh. We glorify it with Teen Mom and whatever other stupid shows they have about profiting from being a teen harlot.


That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
 
2012-06-14 06:29:48 AM  

doglover: Back in the day, 14 year old boys were drumming orders and marches for soldiers getting torn to bits by miniball and cannon fire in Virginia. Humans can deal with seeing such things.


As an historian, I have problems with this statement. (1) It's a Minié ball (which is itself contradicted by the fact that it's a conical bullet, not a ball). (2) 14-year-old boys? Actually, they were a lot younger and still playing the drums on the battlefield; should we expose fourth-graders to snuff films too?

Third and finally, I would like to point out that humans really can't deal with seeing such things. Call it shell shock, battle fatigue, or PTSD, but so many people who see such things as people being ripped apart and/or killed have long-lasting (sometimes lifelong) effects. So many showing a snuff film to a group of kids isn't such a bright idea, as those young(er) minds are often more susceptible to "seeing such things."
 
2012-06-14 06:30:33 AM  

OhioUGrad: There is a TV show in the UK (Link) it highlights how they teach sex education there


I was expecting the Sex Ed scene from Meaning of Life.
 
2012-06-14 06:45:12 AM  

maram500: ; should we expose fourth-graders to snuff films too?


No. I've said before the teacher shouldn't have showed it.

At the same time, I'm not exactly gonna lose any sleep for those "poor kids" First off they were 16 and I'm well aware of what that's like because I was that age once myself and we saw some shiat that weren't right and most of us turned out just fine. (The rest passed on, but they weren't insane, just unfortunate in cars.)

This class should have learned several valuable lessons, not the least of which is "Be careful what you wish for." There's no fark up but we all can't walk away with something useful to be learned by it. Showing something like that in a public school is certainly a fark up and why I'd argue this guy shouldn't be shiat canned out of hand. You can't buy experience like the shame he feels now. And keeping him will foster his loyalty. If he ever teaches again, he'll certainly not repeat this error. There's a serious chance to pull some win/win here.
 
2012-06-14 06:55:51 AM  

cptjeff: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?


Forgot that the classroom is not a democracy? Left his brains in his other pants? Forgot to engage his common sense?
 
2012-06-14 06:56:26 AM  
The day of the screening, the school brought in a crisis team of psychologists who remained for two days and returned on Wednesday after word of the incident surfaced in the media.

Oh, for God's sake, grow up. We see more murders and violence on TV and the Internet before the age of 10 than most folks in the rest of the world see in their entire lives. Don't pretend we can't handle it.
 
2012-06-14 07:04:19 AM  

TomD9938: FTA: The video shows a suspect believed to be Luka Magnotta stabbing and dismembering another man. It also depicts the suspect engaged in sexual acts involving body parts and includes evidence of cannibalism

As with the Sandusky trial and its disturbing details, it should be noted that these behaviors arent exclusive to gay men alone.

Had their fathers not treated them so terribly, it's likely they could have lived lives, deviancy aside, as good as any normal man.


Neither case has anything to do with the sexual orientation of the perps. Sandusky is a power-junkie who likes to victimize children. Magnotta is a megalomaniac who wants infamy at any cost.
 
2012-06-14 07:11:13 AM  
Wonder where he got the film? Not like RedBox has that on file.

Tienes las peliculas de "snuff"?

/not obscure
 
2012-06-14 07:28:10 AM  
I can't help think pretty much anyone could have been a better current affairs teacher. Isn't there better, more interesting things going on in the world to talk about?
 
2012-06-14 07:29:05 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Wonder where he got the film? Not like RedBox has that on file.

Tienes las peliculas de "snuff"?

/not obscure


bestgore has it for sure.

So do the other top fire unfiltered google results with the proper search string.
 
2012-06-14 07:34:59 AM  
What kind of moronic teacher actually lets his high school students vote on watching a snuff film? That's just the highest form of stupidity and a true sign this man is not fit to be a teacher.
 
2012-06-14 07:55:22 AM  

doglover: Better the school provides such things than let the wander off the bestgore and look it up themselves.


Is that last part in a foreign language? I don't know, Welsh or something?
 
2012-06-14 07:58:10 AM  
Only a sub, so he's probably used to being moved on to new victims frequently.
 
2012-06-14 08:03:16 AM  
the only thing that went wrong here is that several of the little assholes regretted their decision to watch it after they begged him to show it and he gave them an out. Remember, you're a victim of someone ELSES misdeeds if you regret poor choices you might make that cause you harm. personal responsibility should never have to account for harming yourself :rolleyes:
 
2012-06-14 08:09:28 AM  
"At first the teacher didn't want to show it, but because the students wanted to see it, he agreed," said student Jean-François Vautour, 16. "We would have found a way to see it anyways."
...
"For sure, at the beginning I found it tough," she said. "But I wasn't traumatized or anything. We see so much these days on TV."


As other people have pointed out here, some of the students expressed an interest in finding it on their own. Perhaps the teacher decided that it would be better to put it in context himself, rather than let them explore the darkest parts of the internet. I also agree that this should be a college- or university-level discussion, but the video itself isn't Open Domain simply because it was released publicly by the KILLER. It belongs to Lin Jun's family.

That being said, I don't think these kids (or just those two?) really understand the difference between reality and fantasy yet. I'm not saying that everyone that put their hand up to vote for watching is a potential psychopath, but I don't think anyone that cares about a human life would volunteer to see it just for the sake of seeing it. I don't think this was about education for these kids; they wanted to be shocked for entertainment.

I don't think the teacher should have showed it. Okay, I'm not a teacher, so perhaps my opinion is invalid, but I think he should have described the video somewhat and discussed why they want to see it in the first place.

I would've explain that this is real. This isn't Hollywood special effects, or CSI, or The Walking Dead. This is a real person, not much older than these kids, being sadistically murdered for no reason other than this person's sick pleasure. This isn't about atrocities committed during war, this is the same voyeuristic impulse that prompted the making and distribution of the video in the first place. Most people these days go their whole lives without ever seeing a murder, let alone a dismemberment or cannibalism. Is it a fact of life in some places in the world, even here? Yes. Can you go to these places where they happen often, be exposed to these awful events, and come out sane enough to help the victims? Yes. Is it for everyone here? Is it for the kids who just want to see something so sensational? Not at all.

And what about Lin Jun? This isn't just a video. It's a video of his murder. What about his privacy? His privacy and human dignity already been violated once by his killer and again when it was filmed and by everyone else who viewed it live. And don't give this BS about wartime video or photos, that's a record of history; it has a purpose that's not simple voyeurism and it wasn't filmed by the killer for entertainment. You wouldn't show Child Porn in class to prevent child sexual abuse. My point is that the video belongs to Lin Jun's family. They should decide if it should be publicly viewed. That people are watching it anyway, from such a horrific source, is disgusting to me.
 
2012-06-14 08:18:08 AM  
How does a site like BestGore even exist? The authorities shut down kiddy porn sites pretty aggressively, but sites where people post and fap to videos of murders stay up? Seems like that's in the same domain of content that's so godawful you can't possess or distribute it.
 
2012-06-14 08:18:42 AM  

doglover: Coming on a Bicycle: doglover: But as a teacher, you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.

That's not entirely true, now is it.

Yes it is.


I think the point CoaB was making was that taking that statement literally means you also shouldn't teach evolution, global warming, and any other bits of reality that some "parents could object to"... Perhaps if you merely change it to "could reasonably object to", then it would make more sense...
 
2012-06-14 08:37:47 AM  
I would've gotten busted for jerking off.
 
2012-06-14 08:38:57 AM  

TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten?


Because the students asked for it?

TsarTom: And what the hell is a supply teacher?


A teacher that always gives the students what they want?
 
2012-06-14 08:49:40 AM  
I always know I can rely on Fark to come up with the most absurd and illogical arguments possible, and this thread has been no exception.

"Because it's available somewhere to a minority who will seek it out regardless, it should be actively displayed to the majority in a public arena! And because it's a current event, there is no valid discussion on the sensitive nature of the subject matter! It's no different than watching CSPAN! My logic aer smrt!"

Farkers are dumber than youtube commenters sometimes.
 
2012-06-14 08:50:35 AM  
There is a widespread false belief that high school teachers are smart people.
 
2012-06-14 08:58:37 AM  

serial_crusher: How does a site like BestGore even exist? The authorities shut down kiddy porn sites pretty aggressively, but sites where people post and fap to videos of murders stay up? Seems like that's in the same domain of content that's so godawful you can't possess or distribute it.


Actually, kiddy porn is the exceptional case here. It's the only criminal act that is both illegal to commit AND illegal to distribute video, audio, and pictures of. There are no laws against owning or distributing video of murder, robbery, rape, drug use or animal torture. Just kiddy porn.

I would argue it should be illegal to own or distribute all these materials across the board for anything but academic or law enforcement reasons, but the supreme court relatively recently disagreed and incorrectly decided that the law only applies to some people.

Of course, sites like this could still exist even under those circumstances since there are videos of accidents and whatnot.
 
2012-06-14 09:00:43 AM  
Was it Gimme Shelter?
 
2012-06-14 09:02:17 AM  

Happy Hours: Oh, and as an aside I find it somewhat disturbing that so much of the class wanted to see it.


Really? I wanted to see all sorts of shiat when I was in HS. Faces of Death was hugely popular even back in the 80s. Now I don't, but at the same time I don't find it disturbing that kids are curious about that shiat.
 
2012-06-14 09:32:22 AM  

doglover: you shouldn't show them anything parents could object to.


That doesn't work as a general rule. We've been down this road.

i1.kym-cdn.com

BUT OBVIOUSLY A SNUFF FILM IS OVER THE LINE.
 
2012-06-14 09:36:25 AM  
I think that the teacher is insane.

When I was in the police academy, I saw some gory videos of crime scenes, suicides, etc. Didn't bother me as we were expected to see that stuff for real when we started working. After i started working, I wish I could unsee some of the things I saw (part of the reason why I changed careers...law enforcement is not for everyone). Why she'd expose a bunch of kids to such a violent murder, decapitation, cannibalism, and necrophilia (if they wanted to find it, they could do it on their own), is pure lunacy and has nothing to do with education.

There are sites out there that specialize in gore, nobody else should take it upon themselves to expose a kid to that kind of horror..if they want to find it themselves, they will.
 
2012-06-14 09:41:06 AM  

Happy Hours: Oh, and as an aside I find it somewhat disturbing that so much of the class wanted to see it. I don't want to see it. I also haven't watched an entire Al Qaeda decapitation video and have managed to have never seen 2 girls, 1 cup. I don't think my education is lacking from missing out on any of those things


Apparently, you aren't familiar with the high school concept of peer pressure. If I had to guess you'd probably have 10-15% with a morbid curiousity. Another 20% probably didn't want to see it but thought it would make them edgy. The rest probably didn't want to view it but didn't want to be seen as uncool.
 
2012-06-14 09:43:06 AM  
I don't know what setting could be agreed upon to be appropriate to view such a thing, but dammit you have to see and know the tragedy to know what not to do, what to avoid, just how shiatty and farked up things can be if you make the wrong decisions, or take the wrong action.

Sometimes it's that horrific example that people need to stay on the right path.

Knowing how awful things can be, what people are capable of makes peace even sweeter.
 
2012-06-14 09:45:19 AM  

Splinshints: serial_crusher: How does a site like BestGore even exist? The authorities shut down kiddy porn sites pretty aggressively, but sites where people post and fap to videos of murders stay up? Seems like that's in the same domain of content that's so godawful you can't possess or distribute it.

Actually, kiddy porn is the exceptional case here. It's the only criminal act that is both illegal to commit AND illegal to distribute video, audio, and pictures of. There are no laws against owning or distributing video of murder, robbery, rape, drug use or animal torture. Just kiddy porn.

I would argue it should be illegal to own or distribute all these materials across the board for anything but academic or law enforcement reasons, but the supreme court relatively recently disagreed and incorrectly decided that the law only applies to some people.

Of course, sites like this could still exist even under those circumstances since there are videos of accidents and whatnot.


Yeah, I was thinking about that on the way in to work. The reasoning behind kiddy porn is illegal is the idea that it encourages more people to produce it.
I guess most of the stuff on bestgore comes from accidents and whatnot. I could only scroll so far before I closed it. The most intentional one I noticed was druglords killing a dude, but they would have done that with or without an audience. If there was the same volume of people producing that stuff specifically for fapping purposes, you'd probably see a change in the laws, but I guess it's mostly just this one guy.
 
2012-06-14 10:04:56 AM  
Well on a positive note, a whole new generation got to hear New Order - True Faith
 
2012-06-14 10:09:40 AM  
Those justifying this in any way prove that we haven't evolved much from Roman times.

/I'm not one for censorship, but any video showing the REAL LIFE death of another human being from non-natural causes should not be shown
//haven't even seen Saddam's execution video
 
2012-06-14 10:50:47 AM  

Electrify: Those justifying this in any way prove that we haven't evolved much from Roman times.

/I'm not one for censorship, but any video showing the REAL LIFE death of another human being from non-natural causes should not be shown
//haven't even seen Saddam's execution video


Shown when? Ever? Showing the execution of a notorious dictator on the national news is totally different from some dumbass teacher showing teens "1 Lunatic 1 Icepick" in class because the class voted "yes".
 
2012-06-14 10:53:14 AM  
Hey call a conservative prude, but I would consider showing a snuff film to students may not be the best move.
 
2012-06-14 11:06:55 AM  
Sure, if kids want to see something, they should totally see it. In school. Because everybody has a right to everything they want. Regardless of how disturbing it is, how pointless it is, or how hurtful it might be to the guy's family to have his death exhibited to a bunch of high school students as if it's entertainment.

I guess we should be grateful the class didn't vote to watch some kid farker's private collection. For the sake of education, of course. And not any other reason that might make everyone involved look like a douche.
 
2012-06-14 11:07:29 AM  
I don't know if anyone made the point, but kids at this age often really want an adult perspective on events like this. They are about to enter the adult world, they would like to have adults explain themselves and how they deal with this sort of thing. It's more complex than simply saying "This is wrong and evil."
 
2012-06-14 11:25:36 AM  

NutWrench: The day of the screening, the school brought in a crisis team of psychologists who remained for two days and returned on Wednesday after word of the incident surfaced in the media.

Oh, for God's sake, grow up. We see more murders and violence on TV and the Internet before the age of 10 than most folks in the rest of the world see in their entire lives. Don't pretend we can't handle it.


The JFK assassination is the only murder I can think of that I've ever seen on TV. All that shiat in movies and TV shows is not real.

And I don't know about most of the world, but there's some pretty farking violent places (parts of Africa, the Middle East, South America, even Europe have had more violence in my lifetime than I'll ever see on TV and internet and real life combined).
 
2012-06-14 11:29:20 AM  
slayer199 When I was in the police academy, I saw some gory videos of crime scenes, suicides, etc. Didn't bother me as we were expected to see that stuff for real when we started working.

or, if you screwed up, you'd BE one of those guys, which is why they show the CHP Newhall morgue photos from that Anderson guy's book to California police academy trainees...
 
2012-06-14 11:39:15 AM  

TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?


According to a disturbing number of people in this thread, not only is it education, but essential, because apparently you can't understand death without seeing a snuff film with cannibalism in it. I suppose that for 99.9+% of human history nobody understood death because we didn't have snuff videos.

There are some colossal trolling idiots in here, plus a few genuinely disturbed asshats. My ignore list went up by about 4 names before posting this.

Doglover, if you are sincere, I hope you get professional help, because you're a goddamn sociopath.
 
2012-06-14 11:47:57 AM  
Happy Hours The JFK assassination is the only murder I can think of that I've ever seen on TV. All that shiat in movies and TV shows is not real.

Thanks to Time-Life, nobody saw that 'til 11+ years after the fact when Geraldo Rivera aired a bootleg copy from the Jim Garrison discovery evidence on his ABC talk show Good Night America(to GMA like NBC's Today/Tomorrow shows) Link
 
2012-06-14 11:49:17 AM  
I once taught high school in Florida. A student found the video of the American that got beheaded by the Taliban. I spent the weekend configuring an open source proxy server. The rest of the students were furious when they could only get to the book publishers website on Monday. Yes I do have less headaches in IT today.
 
2012-06-14 11:50:25 AM  

dready zim: So the adults are all running about worried about their little snowflakes and the kids are all "Meh, we see stuff like this all the time"

ffs, grow up adults!


Yeah, grow up. Don't you know that videos of a guy being killed are just entertainment? No different from American Idol or Paris Hilton's sex tape.
 
2012-06-14 11:56:17 AM  
I remember when I was a Jr. in HS, we had to get special permission to watch Forrest Gump because of some alluded to sex scenes and him getting shot in the butt!

As for "Valley Girl", you know, the one quoted going "for sure", I hope it eventually dawns on her that this was real, she watched someone's son, uncle, loved one, etc be killed, dismembered, and ate and not some Hollywood schlock.

Sorry, just a little grouchy today I guess
 
2012-06-14 12:18:56 PM  

derrrface: Well on a positive note, a whole new generation got to hear New Order - True Faith


lol
 
2012-06-14 12:22:06 PM  

cptjeff: According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?


He made the mistake of trying to be a good teacher in the Age of Snowflakes.
 
2012-06-14 12:27:08 PM  

dready zim: So the adults are all running about worried about their little snowflakes and the kids are all "Meh, we see stuff like this all the time"

ffs, grow up adults!


And guess what? They're kids. We're adults. Our job is to not let them see that, even if they've seen worse, because our job is to teach them what's appropriate and what isn't.

Amazingly enough, this is nowhere near appropriate.
 
2012-06-14 01:08:25 PM  

moonage daydream: Electrify: Those justifying this in any way prove that we haven't evolved much from Roman times.

/I'm not one for censorship, but any video showing the REAL LIFE death of another human being from non-natural causes should not be shown
//haven't even seen Saddam's execution video

Shown when? Ever? Showing the execution of a notorious dictator on the national news is totally different from some dumbass teacher showing teens "1 Lunatic 1 Icepick" in class because the class voted "yes".


Okay, I may have overstated my opinion on real life death and film. After all, I'm pretty sure we've all seen the 9/11 attacks replayed on TV numerous times. Still, I believe that exhibiting footage of real life death should be done at the rarest of times, and done at the highest of discretion

The line we have drawn between entertainment and barbarianism is that one is pretend while the other is not. As a society, we can watch as much murder, killings, and gore as we want - as long as it is fantasy. Moving over from fake death to real death for entertainment, or even 'edutainment' will lead our civilization down a very dark and dangerous path.

Do we need to see the Paul Bernardo videos to understand how heinous his crimes were?

Back to 9/11, I still do not feel that showing images and videos of individuals jumping to their deaths from the World Trade Centre to avoid the horrors of being burned alive was appropriate. Not only does it cross a line in my books, I don't see any significant importance to documented these individual tragedies visually - or at least for media broadcast.
 
2012-06-14 01:11:41 PM  

ciberido: cptjeff: According to TFA, it came up in a discussion, and the students asked him to show it. He was reluctant, took a vote, gave a warning that it would be disturbing, and offered those who voted against showing it a chance to leave the room.

The students thought it was appropriate in the context of the class discussion, and are defending him.

What did this guy do wrong again?

He made the mistake of trying to be a good teacher in the Age of Snowflakes.


Don't know what school you went to, or what you spend your time viewing online, but showing a snuff film does NOT make one a good teacher. Follow the link to Paul Bernardo on my last post, if his videos were distributed online do you think a teacher should exhibit them to his class?

For educational purposes only, of course.
 
2012-06-14 01:13:04 PM  
/probably not, there might be some female genitalia in them
 
2012-06-14 01:34:40 PM  
I honestly don't understand why snuff films aren't illegal to watch, like, PMITAP illegal. We make CP illegal for very good reasons. Is this this not every bit as even more reprehensible?
The victim was killed, his corpse violated, and his death then posted on the internet for his killer's gratification and others' titillation. The killer (Magnotta) intended to commit further acts of depravity for his 'audience', before he was caught.
 
2012-06-14 01:55:03 PM  
Kids think that all kinds of idiotic things are a good idea. The frontal lobes aren't fully connected to he rest of the brain. It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' This is no big surprise to anyone. It's been common knowledge for quite some time.

At the time of the vote, they were not distinguishing the difference between watching an actor get dismembered and someone losing their life in such a horrific manner. As is evident by the vote of about 25 kids only two or three were against it (also possible they didn't want to appear pussy-ish). That kind of violence (for most kids) is only witnessed on TV and in movies.

"I watched the Saw movies one thru three-hundred-twenty-six! I can deal with one more."

How many watched the video and regretted it.

I don't think the teacher should be fired but I do think it was monumentally stupid.
 
2012-06-14 02:07:26 PM  

TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?


Nitpicking a bit here, but the video doesn't actually show the murder. The beginning of the video shows him alive and moving a bit. It then cuts to him chopping up the already dead man.

Kind of bizarre, you'd think a psychopathic narcissist would want to show everything.
 
2012-06-14 02:48:49 PM  

dudicon: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

Nitpicking a bit here, but the video doesn't actually show the murder. The beginning of the video shows him alive and moving a bit. It then cuts to him chopping up the already dead man.

Kind of bizarre, you'd think a psychopathic narcissist would want to show everything.


From checking Wikipedia, apparently the one on the internet is the edited version, and police have managed to find an extended version apparently.

I wonder what it says about me that I can read the gruesome details of the murderand video, but have to quickly scroll past mention of his kitten torture/murder/necrophilia...

Meh.
 
2012-06-14 03:04:09 PM  

moonage daydream: dudicon: TsarTom: Why the hell would you show high-schoolers a video of a man being murdered, dismembered, his corpse farked, and then eaten? And what the hell is a supply teacher?

Nitpicking a bit here, but the video doesn't actually show the murder. The beginning of the video shows him alive and moving a bit. It then cuts to him chopping up the already dead man.

Kind of bizarre, you'd think a psychopathic narcissist would want to show everything.

From checking Wikipedia, apparently the one on the internet is the edited version, and police have managed to find an extended version apparently.

I wonder what it says about me that I can read the gruesome details of the murderand video, but have to quickly scroll past mention of his kitten torture/murder/necrophilia...

Meh.


Hmm I wonder who would have edited it. My understanding is that it was probably posted personally by Magnotta on best gore or whatever.

The Encyclopedia Dramatica article on Magnotta is pretty interesting. It details his long standing internet presence. I won't post a link because it's very NSFW. Look it up though if interested.

There are also links to some of his amateur journalism and old websites of his toward the bottom.
 
2012-06-14 03:20:54 PM  
It's amazing to me how many of you will blast a teacher or school for daring to discipline a child, but when a teacher does something clearly out of bounds, you defend him. Anyone who is trying to claim that this had any place in the classroom is lying to themselves as well as us.
 
2012-06-14 03:44:25 PM  
The fact that 1) many students wanted to see it and 2) most of them weren't traumatized by it, says some very disturbing things about the prevalence of and resulting desensitization to violence in movies and on TV today.
 
2012-06-14 06:32:50 PM  
I'm torn. On the one hand, the kids already knew about the video and were going to find and watch it anyway. Why not show it to them in a controlled environment where they can talk about it afterwards?

On the other hand, it's a farking snuff film in a high school classroom, not to mention that issues with having seen the video might not even crop up until well after the substitute teacher is gone and school is over. What on earth was this idiot thinking when he put it on for them?
 
2012-06-14 06:37:49 PM  
Sooooo for all you hand wringing, finger wagging, thinking-of-the-children types; for all those saying they're just kids whose decision-making skills are undeveloped because their brains are so malleable and impressionable: I'm positive you are endlessly active in lobbying for the MPAA to raise the age for R and NC-17 movies to 30, right? Because one of the quoted students was 17, and it is entirely legal and acceptable for her to go see Saw 6 or The Human Centipede 2.

"But wait, you retard farkwit douchenozzle," you're already halfway through typing, "those are just make-believe! Those have no effect whatsoever and are like comparing the fingers in your ass to the cocks in your mouth! Get it? Because you're GAY GAY GAY. nttawwt"

How about the beach scene from Saving Private Ryan? Still movie magic, but here's a little-known fact and a well-kept secret: it was based on an actual event. Those things really happened and, in a universe of infinite possibility, happened exactly as depicted. And man, the quality! No dark and grainy video footage, that blood and those guts were in technicolor. There were CHILDREN watching that with government and societal sanction.

So get out there and protect those kids. We want to preserve at least a little of the surprise when, the very next year, we send them off to other countries to do those things we don't want them even looking at back home.

In conclusion, shut up you idiots.
 
2012-06-14 06:50:24 PM  

proteus_b: doglover: But as a human, I can't muster outrage for a current events teacher showing a current event to a bunch of kids less than two years away from soldier age. It's history, hot off the presses.

why do they need to see that, or any other video?


THIS CHANGE! I DON'T LIKE THAT!!! WHY CAN'T THEY BE LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS? WHY CAN'T THEY JUST BE IGNORANT LIKE I WAS RAISED TO BE???
 
2012-06-14 08:07:52 PM  

Precision Boobery: Sooooo for all you hand wringing, finger wagging, thinking-of-the-children types; for all those saying they're just kids whose decision-making skills are undeveloped because their brains are so malleable and impressionable: I'm positive you are endlessly active in lobbying for the MPAA to raise the age for R and NC-17 movies to 30, right? Because one of the quoted students was 17, and it is entirely legal and acceptable for her to go see Saw 6 or The Human Centipede 2.

"But wait, you retard farkwit douchenozzle," you're already halfway through typing, "those are just make-believe! Those have no effect whatsoever and are like comparing the fingers in your ass to the cocks in your mouth! Get it? Because you're GAY GAY GAY. nttawwt"

How about the beach scene from Saving Private Ryan? Still movie magic, but here's a little-known fact and a well-kept secret: it was based on an actual event. Those things really happened and, in a universe of infinite possibility, happened exactly as depicted. And man, the quality! No dark and grainy video footage, that blood and those guts were in technicolor. There were CHILDREN watching that with government and societal sanction.

So get out there and protect those kids. We want to preserve at least a little of the surprise when, the very next year, we send them off to other countries to do those things we don't want them even looking at back home.

In conclusion, shut up you idiots.


0/10 because you came in too late, you idiot.
 
2012-06-15 01:34:03 AM  

Precision Boobery: I saw Faces of Death when I was ten, but the most disgusting thing I've ever watched was in a public school in 10th grade. It was a full color film of a human being born. A full-on shot of some stranger's hairy twat, lathered in blood. Then, the crowning...her pushing it out this pale, warped, creepy alien...the gush of amniotic fluid and blood...the afterbirth...

That was before widespread internet access.

They discussed it, there was a vote, there were warnings. I have to seriously doubt anyone who claims to have been traumatized by this, but if they were, it's their own fault.


I also watched faces of death at ten, and had to watch a video of birth in tenth grade.

Neither bothered me, but I know if I watched faces of death now, as an adult, it would freak me right out. The birth, not so much. It's a thing that happens.

/saw picures of the guy who got his face eaten off
//wish i hadn't
 
2012-06-15 04:25:25 AM  
Viewing and continuing the exploitation of Lin's death used as a teaching tool. No, fark off. That's the most idiotic thing I've heard.

/teacher is a goddam idiot
 
2012-06-15 07:49:29 AM  

Smackledorfer: Why does anyone need to learn anything?

/your question was stupid.


Pretty sure that students learn through active processes, not passively. Showing a clip from a video may be an appropriate accompaniment for a lesson, but simply turning on the video and plopping the students in front of it will teach them nothing other than that school is a waste of time.

/you're stupid
 
2012-06-15 11:05:09 AM  

Ambivalence: Is Montreal becoming the Florida of Canada?


It has its moments.... But Lasalle is one of the shabbiest and worst educated corners of our fair city, and often gets the teachers unable to find work elsewhere.

Without much misspelling La Sale (same pronunciation) becomes "the dirty", which if what us anglo montreallers call it
 
2012-06-15 03:08:16 PM  
Everything is Awful I also watched faces of death at ten

the guy behind that runs this site, interesting character-yes it's SFW
Link

...& unlike "Banned From TV"('traingirl' teaser commercial) he never begot Joe Francis
 
Displayed 118 of 118 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report