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(Some Guy)   George R.R. Martin: "I am aware of the TV series moving along behind me like a giant locomotive, and I know I need to lay the track more quickly, perhaps, because the locomotive is soon going to be bearing down on me"   (airlockalpha.com) divider line 312
    More: Unlikely, TV series, Peter Dinklage, David Benioff, Oscar for Best Actress, Sean Bean, D.B. Weiss, George R. R. Martin, last things  
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6057 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Jun 2012 at 1:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-14 01:15:47 AM  
He better be. I should have learned my lesson when I gave up on Jordan's wheel of time series. I never did finish that one after he lost me 5 books in, so we'll see if Martin can call me back. He's been stretching since book 3.
 
2012-06-14 01:43:08 AM  
So prepare for the writing to get crappier...
 
2012-06-14 01:46:36 AM  
I'm not convinced he knows how to wrap it all up in 3000 pages. Hey more than I've done with my life.
 
2012-06-14 01:48:50 AM  

Confabulat: I'm not convinced he knows how to wrap it all up in 3000 pages. Hey more than I've done with my life.


At some point he's going to have all the surviving cast members playing croquet for the crown.
 
2012-06-14 01:50:45 AM  
He really needs to keep the number of characters down. Some of these characters are about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.
 
2012-06-14 01:50:52 AM  

Ambivalence: Confabulat: I'm not convinced he knows how to wrap it all up in 3000 pages. Hey more than I've done with my life.

At some point he's going to have all the surviving cast members playing croquet for the crown.


So, Tyrion and Daenerys?

/I'm fairly certain those are the only two characters who are safe from death in his mind.
 
2012-06-14 01:56:43 AM  

Teufelaffe: Ambivalence: Confabulat: I'm not convinced he knows how to wrap it all up in 3000 pages. Hey more than I've done with my life.

At some point he's going to have all the surviving cast members playing croquet for the crown.

So, Tyrion and Daenerys?

/I'm fairly certain those are the only two characters who are safe from death in his mind.


Bran. Otherwise that's the most pointless subplot in all literature.
 
2012-06-14 01:57:56 AM  

Teufelaffe: So, Tyrion and Daenerys?

/I'm fairly certain those are the only two characters who are safe from death in his mind.


I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.
 
2012-06-14 01:58:13 AM  
Hopefully "laying track" means advancing the plot, not just churning out another book...

I couldn't finish this last one. And I've gotten through all of the available WoT books, though I'll skip several of them if I chose to reread the whole thing once it's completed.
 
2012-06-14 01:59:14 AM  
The one thing we can be sure of is that he'll describe 10,000 more meals in obsessive excruciating detail. It wouldn't be so bad if the characters were like eating chocolate cake, but nooo it's crabs snarfled in plum sauce and jellied dingos and braised sheep intestines.
 
2012-06-14 02:03:32 AM  

Ambivalence: I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.


His "death" was way too vague, especially after the whole "Not today" speech. I am guessing he's a Faceless Man but sheesh that was like 5000 pages ago, how about not introducing 30 new characters that wander around for 700 pages and start wrapping some things up dude.
 
2012-06-14 02:06:26 AM  

wingedkat: He better be. I should have learned my lesson when I gave up on Jordan's wheel of time series. I never did finish that one after he lost me 5 books in, so we'll see if Martin can call me back. He's been stretching since book 3.


To be fair, book 6 was one of the best and if you read Internet summaries from book 7 up to Brandon Sanderson, you wont miss much.

And Sanderson can't write Mat to save his life, (Mormons don't get a character who is a grizzled veteran and a partier) but you won't get 48 pages about a leaf, either.
 
2012-06-14 02:14:13 AM  

vossiewulf: The one thing we can be sure of is that he'll describe 10,000 more meals in obsessive excruciating detail. It wouldn't be so bad if the characters were like eating chocolate cake, but nooo it's crabs snarfled in plum sauce and jellied dingos and braised sheep intestines.


This is the only book, fantasy or otherwise, that ever managed to interest me in what the characters were eating (and fashion, too, for some reason):

loveandlivetoread.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-14 02:19:30 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So prepare for the writing to get crappier...


Well, maybe the plot will start moving a bit better. I for one do not need to know the complete history going back 10 generations of every single object and every single location we come across. Cut that kind of stuff out, and the last two books probably would have been about 100 pages each.
 
2012-06-14 02:39:11 AM  
I love the superfluous detail, but move the plot forward. PLEASE!!! Start to tie some things together!
 
2012-06-14 02:39:12 AM  

Confabulat: Ambivalence: I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.

His "death" was way too vague, especially after the whole "Not today" speech. I am guessing he's a Faceless Man but sheesh that was like 5000 pages ago, how about not introducing 30 new characters that wander around for 700 pages and start wrapping some things up dude.


Sylvio Florel is dead. Jon Snow is alive.
 
2012-06-14 02:50:04 AM  

RatMaster999: Hopefully "laying track" means advancing the plot, not just churning out another book...

I couldn't finish this last one. And I've gotten through all of the available WoT books, though I'll skip several of them if I chose to reread the whole thing once it's completed.


Yeah I was skimming on the parts of people I didn't really care about. Then I got to the end with Jon and chucked the farking thing at my closet door, which broke. Do not throw a 5 pound hard bound book, especially after you stayed up all night excited to read a book. It does not go well.
 
2012-06-14 02:50:23 AM  
This is why most story tellers start at the end and build the story to reach it.
 
2012-06-14 02:53:08 AM  

BSABSVR: Confabulat: Ambivalence: I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.

His "death" was way too vague, especially after the whole "Not today" speech. I am guessing he's a Faceless Man but sheesh that was like 5000 pages ago, how about not introducing 30 new characters that wander around for 700 pages and start wrapping some things up dude.

Sylvio Florel is dead. Jon Snow is alive.


See I have no doubt that Jon is alive, after dying of course, so he is free of the Night's Watch. HOWEVER what pissed me off is the book I waited six-ish years for really just back tracked over a lot of the previous book and then ended in a shiatty cliff hanger which may never get resolved because at the rate this guy is writing he'll die before Winds of Winter ever sees an editor.
 
2012-06-14 02:53:47 AM  
The history and backstory etc is necessary. It's foreplay for the good stuff.

Dance W Dragons was probably my favorite of all but hey I love all the "useless details".

virtualshacklesimagestest.appspot.com
 
2012-06-14 02:56:39 AM  
There are trains in Westeros now?

fusillade762, parts of that book were great, but overall that was a snoozefest. Not as bad as Wise Man's Fear, though.
 
2012-06-14 02:57:38 AM  
Mamoru,

Cutting the fluff would result in less books, less sales and less profit. He's done this since book 3-4. Introduce characters that add nothing to the plot (making the book longer), move the plot at a snails pace (creating the need for more books), and then act like you are having a difficult time getting the story on paper.

Bullshiate. He knows exactly where the story is going. The problem is trying to turn that one book into three. HBO, assuming GRRM finishes the series, will cut books 4-7 into 2 seasons.

I'm deep into "Dance" and there is literally zero fu*king plot movement. I love the characters, but mother of god don't tell me you had difficulty writing this. Your problem, George, was trying to add enough fluff to make this a novel and not a fu*king short story.
 
2012-06-14 02:59:26 AM  
Even though A Feast for Crows has been out for a year now, I've have no inclination to even read it. Same goes with watching the TV series. The wait between A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons completely killed any interest I had in the series.
 
2012-06-14 02:59:45 AM  

redmond24: The history and backstory etc is necessary. It's foreplay for the good stuff.

Dance W Dragons was probably my favorite of all but hey I love all the "useless details".

[virtualshacklesimagestest.appspot.com image 640x334]


Really? You like him describing all the different types of boys that walked through the wall? Really? That bit made me close the book and i haven't opened it since. Fark you RR you can DIADF
 
2012-06-14 03:11:02 AM  

innumerate: He really needs to keep the number of characters down. Some of these characters are about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.


I know... he could KILL some of them off! It would be a brilliant and ballzy move!
 
2012-06-14 03:27:32 AM  

wildcardjack: This is why most story tellers start at the end and build the story to reach it.


How much money is in that, though? Build a successful brand, and folks will keep buying just because of the brand and to have a 'complete set'. George Martin doesn't have to do anything. He can keep churning out books without end, and fans will still buy them, while the series turns into an alternative sideways universe once it catches up and goes beyond his books. If the series lasts that long.
 
2012-06-14 03:30:00 AM  
I have a feeling he'll croak before finishing the story.
 
2012-06-14 03:40:51 AM  
I hope his pseudo-medieval crap train runs him down like a dog

His SF was peculiarly lyrical and engaging.

And he abandoned it for a bunch of paper doorstops and the mindless suckery of the glass teat.
 
2012-06-14 03:47:35 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: He can keep churning out books without end, and fans will still buy them, while the series turns into an alternative sideways universe once it catches up and goes beyond his books. If the series lasts that long.


ts1.mm.bing.net

Fascinating.
 
2012-06-14 05:00:01 AM  
meh
the current remaining books will cover more than 3 seasons.
Pretty sure that I heard that season 3 will only be the first half of book 3.
Figure that gives GRRM 3+ years to finish the next book.

Plus, we can only hope that he has some kind of outline and a fair amount written or planned already for the next book ...
we can hope
hope
 
2012-06-14 06:32:50 AM  
Or conversely, finish the novel series on TV first and then backfill it with a book.

/cause that would be kinda cool
//would be the first continuing narative that transitioned between two types of media I think.
 
2012-06-14 06:37:42 AM  

Inaditch: There are trains in Westeros now?

fusillade762, parts of that book were great, but overall that was a snoozefest. Not as bad as Wise Man's Fear, though.


I've never hated a fantasy race/tribe more then I hate the Adem.
 
2012-06-14 07:10:28 AM  
SPOILERS obviously

What the people currently watching the show don't realize is just how long it will be before any of the fantasy elements actually leads to something. When reading the books, I felt like the story being told was of family politics and wars and strife over the Iron Throne, but the existential threat from beyond the wall would sweep down and catch them unaware while they fight between themselves. It's been five books, and while the hints are there, none of that has really happened. Likewise, the dragons were a huge signal and again foreshadowed to be important, but Dany is still across the water five books later.

As others have said, there are so many characters, many of whom have neat stories going on, but it's impossible to tell if they are really relevant for the major story line (the existential threat and how Westeros will look afterward) or not. I love the Red Viper and the sand snakes, but are they important somehow? What about the struggles on the Iron Islands. What the heck is Brad doing and how does he figure into the ending?
 
2012-06-14 07:22:18 AM  

innumerate: He really needs to keep the number of characters down. Some of these characters are about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.


is this some sort of cruel jape?
 
2012-06-14 07:22:45 AM  

BSABSVR: Confabulat: Ambivalence: I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.

His "death" was way too vague, especially after the whole "Not today" speech. I am guessing he's a Faceless Man but sheesh that was like 5000 pages ago, how about not introducing 30 new characters that wander around for 700 pages and start wrapping some things up dude.

Sylvio Florel is dead. Jon Snow is alive.


SYRIO is alive. He is/was a faceless man. Its mentioned a couple times in the book that the guy that 'killed' him is acting a slight bit off.

Jon Snow is the rape baby of Rhygear (sp) & Lyanna (sp). Its safe to assume that much.
 
2012-06-14 07:26:45 AM  

Ambivalence: Teufelaffe: So, Tyrion and Daenerys?

/I'm fairly certain those are the only two characters who are safe from death in his mind.

I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.


www.startrek.com
 
2012-06-14 07:30:53 AM  

iron_city_ap: SYRIO is alive. He is/was a faceless man. Its mentioned a couple times in the book that the guy that 'killed' him is acting a slight bit off.


GRRM has said flat out Syrio is dead.
 
2012-06-14 07:35:13 AM  

Kittypie070: I hope his pseudo-medieval crap train runs him down like a dog

His SF was peculiarly lyrical and engaging.

And he abandoned it for a bunch of paper doorstops and the mindless suckery of the glass teat.


Wow, a GRRM hipster!
 
2012-06-14 07:36:30 AM  

Theseus: SPOILERS obviously

What the people currently watching the show don't realize is just how long it will be before any of the fantasy elements actually leads to something. When reading the books, I felt like the story being told was of family politics and wars and strife over the Iron Throne, but the existential threat from beyond the wall would sweep down and catch them unaware while they fight between themselves. It's been five books, and while the hints are there, none of that has really happened. Likewise, the dragons were a huge signal and again foreshadowed to be important, but Dany is still across the water five books later.

As others have said, there are so many characters, many of whom have neat stories going on, but it's impossible to tell if they are really relevant for the major story line (the existential threat and how Westeros will look afterward) or not. I love the Red Viper and the sand snakes, but are they important somehow? What about the struggles on the Iron Islands. What the heck is Brad doing and how does he figure into the ending?


I dunno. I would call the fifth book rising action.

Events in that book are a LOT closer to a real head than in book one. A lot of the bit players are dead and gone, all that's left on the board are queens, rooks, and bishops. The pawns that remain are about to get promoted, too. Everything is ready to have a nice mix up between two of the high stakes players. This was not the case with the fourth book.

Also Dany isn't exactly a teenage girl with a handful of riders and no coin to her name like in the first book. I don't want to spoil anything, but her lot does improve to the point she's a serious contender for the throne by might, not just blood.

Also, the preview chapter with Reek gives me a "George is gonna start winnowing." tingly violence boner.
 
2012-06-14 07:36:40 AM  
I love GoT threads!

I think the overall, arcing plot is about Targaryn restoration. The lannisters and starks and martells and greyjoys are all elements which play a role in moving the pieces around the board to the final endgame of the Others against the Realms of men, of R'hllor against the cold of the north. The champion behind this will be dany and her dragons and the restoration of the Targarayen dynasty.

We've already seen the way forward paved. Varys is its primary agent and actor in kings landing with the actions he did at the end of the last book. The lannisters, like so many other families in history when at the peak of their power, are self-destructing. The evident destruction of House Stark I think is nowhere near as complete as the destruction of House Lannister, who at this point has taken way more casualties. Despite the incredible hits house stark has suffered I at this point am less convinced than ever they will fall completely.

Martin seems to like to use characters to get them to accomplish a certain task towards the achievement of the over-arching theme I mentioned above, then kills them. I think the rest of house lannister, little finger, all the iron born... these guys are all, I think, peripheral. The main story will be dany claiming the throne, and who stands with and who opposes her. That to me will dictate who will live or die.

Jon Snow's probably the love child of lyssa stark and Rhaegar Targaryn. If now that he's "died" and is revived by melisandre (my assumption), then he's free to become a more active player in ... indirectly of course, since he doesn't know his true heritage... in moving the plotline forward of helping dany's ascension, by cleaning up the north of boltons, most likely.

Brans story I guess will be eventually skin changing with dragons. "one day you will fly", we keep hearing this. This is foreshadowing him with dragons, as far as I can tell.

I would think in 2 books or so we'll see the targaryns back on the throne with the starks their stewards.
 
2012-06-14 07:38:43 AM  

iron_city_ap:
Its safe to assume that much.


No. It isn't. We dont really know what happened between Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar. We only have bits & pieces and the R+L = J connection is a little too obvious.
 
2012-06-14 07:38:50 AM  

doglover: Also, the preview chapter with Reek gives me a "George is gonna start winnowing." tingly violence boner.


Ive come to really admire stannis.

and i think the boltons and freys are going to suffer badly at his hand. and i will feel as good about it as i did when the LA kings won the stanly cup last week.
 
2012-06-14 07:41:01 AM  

Father_Jack: I would think in 2 books or so we'll see the targaryns back on the throne with the starks their stewards.


And hopefully Arya unchained. Her whole story is like 15 years of winding back slowly on one hell of a spring. When it pops, it's gonna be epic.
 
2012-06-14 07:43:19 AM  

iron_city_ap: BSABSVR: Confabulat: Ambivalence: I just want to know what the hell happened to Syrio Forel.

His "death" was way too vague, especially after the whole "Not today" speech. I am guessing he's a Faceless Man but sheesh that was like 5000 pages ago, how about not introducing 30 new characters that wander around for 700 pages and start wrapping some things up dude.

Sylvio Florel is dead. Jon Snow is alive.

SYRIO is alive. He is/was a faceless man. Its mentioned a couple times in the book that the guy that 'killed' him is acting a slight bit off.

Jon Snow is the rape baby of Rhygear (sp) & Lyanna (sp). Its safe to assume that much.


I think Tyrion being a Targaryen is more likely than Syrio Forel being Jaqen H'ghar. Both are really unlikely though.
 
2012-06-14 07:46:30 AM  

Clash City Farker: iron_city_ap:
Its safe to assume that much.

No. It isn't. We dont really know what happened between Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar. We only have bits & pieces and the R+L = J connection is a little too obvious.


you need to read up on the Jon Snow theories! :)

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories
 
2012-06-14 07:52:29 AM  

Father_Jack: Varys is its primary agent and actor in kings landing with the actions he did at the end of the last book.


That's one scene that was in the first book AND show that a lot of people forget. Arya is hiding in the dragon's jaw somewhere in the bowels of King's Landing and Varys walks by with that guy from Pentos, forget his name, and they reveal they are plotting for the Targaryans all along. Varys' allegiance is to Dany, and it's very blatantly stated.
 
2012-06-14 07:53:12 AM  

BSABSVR: wingedkat: He better be. I should have learned my lesson when I gave up on Jordan's wheel of time series. I never did finish that one after he lost me 5 books in, so we'll see if Martin can call me back. He's been stretching since book 3.

To be fair, book 6 was one of the best and if you read Internet summaries from book 7 up to Brandon Sanderson, you wont miss much.

And Sanderson can't write Mat to save his life, (Mormons don't get a character who is a grizzled veteran and a partier) but you won't get 48 pages about a leaf, either.


The books do pick up again after 5. Book 10 was kind of a drag but 11 it's clear the story is now a run away train bound for the last battle.

I also have to agree Sanderson can't write Mat. But the last book was noticeably better than his first attempt. I think some dragged Sanderson out to wild night in Vegas to explain.
 
2012-06-14 07:58:32 AM  

Father_Jack: Clash City Farker: iron_city_ap:
Its safe to assume that much.

No. It isn't. We dont really know what happened between Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar. We only have bits & pieces and the R+L = J connection is a little too obvious.

you need to read up on the Jon Snow theories! :)

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories


I've read plenty and tried to piece together the timelines. But the info GRRM has provided thus far is incomplete. I believe its possible that Rhaegar is a red herring. I believe he had too much honor to run away with another woman while he was already married. The real father is someone else.
 
2012-06-14 07:59:09 AM  

Someothermonkey: Even though A Feast for Crows has been out for a year now, I've have no inclination to even read it. Same goes with watching the TV series. The wait between A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons completely killed any interest I had in the series.


that'll show him!
 
2012-06-14 08:03:06 AM  

Father_Jack: I love GoT threads!

I think the overall, arcing plot is about Targaryn restoration. The lannisters and starks and martells and greyjoys are all elements which play a role in moving the pieces around the board to the final endgame of the Others against the Realms of men, of R'hllor against the cold of the north. The champion behind this will be dany and her dragons and the restoration of the Targarayen dynasty.

We've already seen the way forward paved. Varys is its primary agent and actor in kings landing with the actions he did at the end of the last book. The lannisters, like so many other families in history when at the peak of their power, are self-destructing. The evident destruction of House Stark I think is nowhere near as complete as the destruction of House Lannister, who at this point has taken way more casualties. Despite the incredible hits house stark has suffered I at this point am less convinced than ever they will fall completely.

Martin seems to like to use characters to get them to accomplish a certain task towards the achievement of the over-arching theme I mentioned above, then kills them. I think the rest of house lannister, little finger, all the iron born... these guys are all, I think, peripheral. The main story will be dany claiming the throne, and who stands with and who opposes her. That to me will dictate who will live or die.

Jon Snow's probably the love child of lyssa stark and Rhaegar Targaryn. If now that he's "died" and is revived by melisandre (my assumption), then he's free to become a more active player in ... indirectly of course, since he doesn't know his true heritage... in moving the plotline forward of helping dany's ascension, by cleaning up the north of boltons, most likely.

Brans story I guess will be eventually skin changing with dragons. "one day you will fly", we keep hearing this. This is foreshadowing him with dragons, as far as I can tell.

I would think in 2 books or so we'll see the targaryns back on the throne ...


I think a Targeryan restoration would be a little too...predictable.

I have no doubt Dany will return to Westeros and have a massive effect on the events there in the final two books. However that doesn't necessarily translate into taking the Iron Throne, or the Iron Throne actually ruling all of Westeros when it's all said and done.
 
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