Ambivalence: Mentat: Ambivalence: FTA:

"The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms."

I wonder what implications this would have for space travel. Assuming we don't want to contaminate another world with our....stow-aways. What affect would it have to the human physiology to have these microorganisms absent from our bodies.

Do you like digesting food?

I realize microbes assist in digestion, but are they essential? Can they be replaced by non-organic supplements?

Considering the main powerhouse of every cell is essentially a virus, I highly doubt it.

Ambivalence: Mentat: Ambivalence: I realize microbes assist in digestion, but are they essential? Can they be replaced by non-organic supplements?

Your diet would be very restricted and nutrient uptake would be hell.

Recognizing that our basic bodily processes are dependant on other lifeforms, would it be irresponsible for us to consider transplanting ourselves to other worlds where either the introduction of these microorganisms would probably harm the native flora/fauna, or risk the posibility that these microorganisms could not survive in a non-native environment and any humans who attempted to leave would live short lives starving of malnutrition no matter how much they ate?

To be fair, simply introducing OURSELVES onto other worlds would harm the native flora and fauna. We're not exactly taking care of things on the homefront.

"The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

/what I keep telling my ex

Oh God they're EVERYWHERE

The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

It's always a bad day when Gonorrhealand becomes a bodily superpower...

2chris2: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

ONE FLAGELLA ONE VOTE!

Eeek. Gonna go scrub myself in the shower now. For three days.

"But when we disrupt the delicate ecosystems they carefully construct in different parts of our bodies, scientists think that can make us sick.

Taking too many antibiotics, our obsession with cleanliness [...] may disrupt the normal microbiome, she said."

AW JEEZ NOW WHAT

...gonna lie in a fetal position in the corner wrapped in Saran Wrap now

Recently a scientist from Stanford came to speak to my department and works on something similar. He works with identifying certain populations of microbes on different parts of the body and their abundances based on a variety of factors. What was interesting was the fact that with his subjects the patterns of microbes and their relative amounts changed with location and dietary habits. They could map based on these distributions exactly what region or in many cases what state a person had recently been. Really fantastic stuff if you think about its implications in diagnosing patients and tracing certain ailments.

/csb

In other news, I'm playing "Plague Inc." on the iPhone. It's pretty much the same game as 'Pandemic 2' except Greenland is the new Madagascar. SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING!!!!

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/plague-inc./id525818839?mt=8

FTFA: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms.

"The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human," said Lita Proctor of the National Institutes of Health, who's leading the Human Microbiome Project.

This is misleading. Non-human cells far outnumber our own, but ours are MUCH larger. For a given human, the total mass of those foreign cells is perhaps 3-4 pounds.

Mentat: I did the calculation once for one of these threads and I think by mass it's something like 1000:1 human.

It's actually about 10% by mass, mostly in the gut.

RogermcAllen: Makh: Ambivalence: Can they be replaced by non-organic supplements?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

We don't exactly know enough yet on how to replace them and live. But inorganic stuff might not cut it, the organic chemicals might not even cut it. We need many of these micro-organisms because they are more dynamic than just one reaction.

The harmful stuff in your body equates with the weeds, crab grass and even good plants that are overgrown in your yard. You wouldn't take agent orange to your backyard for that. (I guess maybe someone would.)

I like the lawn analogy.

A healthy lawn crowds out weeds, and a bit of maintenance keeps everything looking nice.

If you tear out all of the grass, the whole yard will quickly be covered in weeds.

/If you eliminated all* bacteria in your body, that 0.00001% that you didn't kill will fark you up
//*you can never get them all

Interesting perspective. I would call it subjective, however. What constitutes a 'weed' is a matter of opinion, not a matter of what view is most popular. In the most practical terms, a 'healthy' lawn is one that can take care of itself without our help, or with only minimal help -- rather than what a majority of humans might consider pretty. If you need a chemical truck and constant mowing, your lawn is the agricultural equivalent of Cher's hair.

A better article describing the study:
http://www.genome.gov/Pages/Newsroom/CurrentNewsReleases/Nature_HMP_0 6 1312.pdf

Ah, big science, the entire last page is a list of 248 authors and their affiliations.

Ambivalence: FTA:

"The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms."

I wonder what implications this would have for space travel. Assuming we don't want to contaminate another world with our....stow-aways. What affect would it have to the human physiology to have these microorganisms absent from our bodies.

You want a real world historical example...
Look at what the exploration of Western Europeans did to the isolated tribes of North & South America.

In terms of impact, Euros did more to the Indians, than Indians did to Euros.

The potential is both ways...the impact can be minor or severe, short-term or very long-term.
It's a subtle balance.

Chaos Theory in play...

Nuclear Monk: It's always a bad day when Gonorrhealand becomes a bodily superpower...

Never get involved in a land war in Abdomen.

The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms.

"The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human," said Lita Proctor of the National Institutes of Health, who's leading the Human Microbiome Project.

Um, bullshiat. Maybe by pure number there are more microbes than human cells, but by weight or volume or any other measure we are seeing human cells, not a giant mass of moving microbes.

2chris2: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

I'm glad I was not the only annoyed by that phrase.

Mentat: manimal2878: 2chris2: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

I'm glad I was not the only annoyed by that phrase.

The fun question is, which cells are more important, human or bacteria? Are we really independent organisms at the top of the food chain or just mobile meat sacks for microbial communities?

And what exactly is a multicellular organism anyway? Anything more than one cell is sort of a symbiotic colony.

Ambivalence: What affect would it have to the human physiology to have these microorganisms absent from our bodies.

Everyone should be pretty familiar with the fact that they aid in digestion, but the guys on your skin that you try so hard to wash off every day are a lot like a sort of DMZ. It's not static; it's dynamic. It's constantly interacting with the skin and immune system as well as the outside world. (It's not just the skin and gut, BTW. There are bugs on your eyelashes, in your sinuses and ears, in your lungs.) Getting sick isn't about the presence of microbes but an imbalance. Basically, when you're healthy you're still constantly interacting with the environment at a microscopic level, but the bad guys have trouble "latching on" because the good guys ensure you're "crowded" -- like trying to get to the other side of a crowded train. You still want to stay clean, of course, as this is really about little microbe ecosystems colliding with each other. What people associate as bad things (fecal matter, rotten food, etc.) are their own microbe farms that, when you interact with them, can completely overwhelm your team. So, wash your hands and cook your food. Just don't sterilize any part of your body that isn't physically damaged. Any bacteria you eliminate from your body will be replaced naturally -- you have no control over it -- and you can only hope the new tenants aren't worse.

It's not just bacteria and viruses, either. There are fungi, mites and bunch of other microscopic life forms. Until recently we had a lot of worms in us and there's gathering evidence that eradicating them was a BAD idea.

Makh: We don't exactly know enough yet on how to replace them and live.

Why would you even want to? They do the work for free.

Mentat: manimal2878: 2chris2: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

I'm glad I was not the only annoyed by that phrase.

The fun question is, which cells are more important, human or bacteria? Are we really independent organisms at the top of the food chain or just mobile meat sacks for microbial communities?

I don't find that question all that fun. What difference would the answer make to anything I think matters? I still experience pain, joy, suffering, etc. and still view myself as a singular conscious entity.

So, if it stinks behind your ears, that's good, right?

mamoru: The My Little Pony Killer: Considering the main powerhouse of every cell is essentially a virus, I highly doubt it.

Mitochondria are descendents of, and still far more similar too, alpha-proteobacteria. Not viruses. Mitochondria are really nothing like viruses.

This has been another episode of Pedantic Biology Teacher™. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Mentat: manimal2878: 2chris2: The human body contains about 100 trillion cells, but only maybe one in 10 of those cells is actually - human. The rest are from bacteria, viruses and other microorganisms. "The human we see in the mirror is made up of more microbes than human"

That's like saying that the earth is made up of more penguins than earth. The point they're leaving out of this article, probably due to the writer's ignorance, is that these microbes are much, much smaller than human cells. The human body is not 90% viruses and bacteria.

I'm glad I was not the only annoyed by that phrase.

The fun question is, which cells are more important, human or bacteria? Are we really independent organisms at the top of the food chain or just mobile meat sacks for microbial communities?

We are, fundamentally, sophisticated delivery mechanisms for DNA. The apparent symbiosis of numerous other species (along with what seems to be good deal of 'junk' DNA that may not be ours) is a by-product of environmental impact over many, many years. No small part of our evolutionary history may have resulted from these external factors, though it's hard to say at this point. But as long as we continue to efficiently and reliably deliver the genetic packages forward, the system works well enough, and that's really all the DNA cares about.

RogermcAllen: Citation Needed. More because I am interested in this concept than because I doubt you.

Per Wiki (articles "demodex", "gut flora" and "hookworm"):
Two species living on humans have been identified: Demodex folliculorum and Demodex brevis, both frequently referred to as eyelash mites

The currently known genera of fungi of the gut flora include Candida, Saccharomyces, Aspergillus, and Penicillium.

Moderate hookworm infections have been demonstrated to have beneficial effects on hosts suffering from diseases linked to overactive immune systems. This is possibly explained by the hygiene hypothesis.

. . . also read up on "helminthic therapy".