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(Slash Gear)   Want to upgrade the RAM in the new MacBook Pro yourself? too bad   (slashgear.com) divider line 414
    More: Fail, MacBook Pro, MacBook, memories, pro, SSD, iFixit, bytes  
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7656 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Jun 2012 at 12:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-13 02:31:44 PM  

bgflores: And I'm going to rip the hard drive out of that iMac, drop in an SSD, and probably use it for another 5 years.


Which is another valid complaint about this one.

FTA: "The SSD is also proprietary"
 
2012-06-13 02:32:24 PM  

fracto73: ok, I agree on your reasoning, but I'm surprised you would do business with Dell or Asus, since they have models with the ram soldered onto the board and you seemed really offended by that here.


I'm curious if you could point out which models you're referring to. I believe I've seen ones like this, (like my netbook) but the one's I've seen offer a 2nd empty slot that is open to extending system RAM.
 
2012-06-13 02:37:04 PM  
I really don't understand this complaint against Apple. They've been highly tinker-unfriendly for some time now. If you buy an Apple product thinking you're going to do any of your own maintenance beyond wiping your pizza-grease finger smudges off the screen you're an idiot.

Apple builds art, not technology. This is not a new thing.
 
2012-06-13 02:37:14 PM  
I dropped 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive into my 2010 Macbook Pro last night, so I'm getting a kick out of some of these replies...

The point bears repeating, though: Macs age a lot more gracefully than PCs. I spent a lifetime on the Wintel platform and finally cut bait when I realized that any OS that just rams itself into the ground so regularly and masochistically probably isn't worth using. That was in the 95/98/XP era, maybe that's no longer the case with 7 and 8. I don't know; I don't care. The old Mac Mini I bought in 2007 or so that I keep around as an all-purpose file server runs Lion - which came out last year - like a dream.

/ Not thrilled that the memory is soldered onto the board, with slots if something goes bad you can swap the DIMM.
// I'd suffer a slightly bigger next gen MBP if it meant getting at least a 7mm HDD that I can yank out too.
 
2012-06-13 02:37:15 PM  

MrSteve007: I do know that typically the price of RAM drops 25-40% a year for the current generation. I enjoy being able to buy a system with a usable amount of RAM, then in 2 years, for a very low cost, dramatically increasing the performance of the machine by doubling the ram and putting in a faster hard drive - giving new life into a machine that would no longer be giving top performance.

This is what we do in the office, as our CAD users always get a top-of-the-line workstation. After two years, I'll pass that system down to one of our non-CAD graphic designers, while upgrading the RAM and hard drive. Working that way has served me well.

Hell, I bought a multitouch tablet/netbook 3 years ago. After bumping up the RAM from 1 gig to 4, and putting in an SSD, it's a blazingly fast little machine for home use. The upgrades cost me about $150, to a machine that cost $400.


This. I do the same thing with personal laptops. Computer manufacterurs tend to market processor speed and hard drive space over everything else resulting in machines with slow drives, insufficient RAM, and a data starved CPU.

I recently took an old toshiba, bumped the RAM from 512k to 4gb, replaced the old 4800 RPM drive with an SSD, and installed Win7 in place of the old XP. It is now blazing fast for typical computer use (browsing, email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.) - essentially imperceptible from new machines I look at in the store. I can't game on it (integrated intel graphics), but I do my gaming on my desktop anyway. It should last me another couple years at least.

Not bad for a six year old $450 black friday special.

Moral of the story: gotta feed the CPU if you want to reach full performance potential
 
2012-06-13 02:41:48 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Sounds superior to paying Apple to do it.


Not if by making a component user-upgradable they have to compromise in any way on the design of the product. I don't buy laptops so I can take them apart, I don't care if they come apart easy. Also, I have $100.

Marine1: I dream of devices we could swap out parts on.


Nightmare scenario for me or anyone involved in developing for mobile phones. Would make phones double the cost and make supporting them practically impossible.
 
2012-06-13 02:42:43 PM  

fracto73:
The current gen MBP's aren't difficult either. In my experience a mac person knowing how to add ram to their laptop is as likely as a PC person knowing how. Some people just like to feel superior.


Not difficult, but it does require taking off the bottom cover. I'd have preferred if Apple had put a hatch on the bottom like in the original MBP. The unibody MBPs are tons easier to work on, though. Ya take off the bottom cover and everything is right there.
 
2012-06-13 02:44:20 PM  

ZipSplat: RAM has become trivial. It's likely that in the future manufacturers are just going to "max out" the RAM and solder it to the board because that's way more space efficient than having the RAM in slots.

This is going to be one of those six-month long onion belt biatchings by people who don't see the larger picture and direction of device design. The same luddites who brought us "Why doesn't the iPod take AA's?" and "An iPad is just a big iPhone that can't even make phone calls."


An iPad is a big iPhone that doesn't make calls, that's not a bad thing if it suits your needs. And easily replaceable batteries (not AA's) are a good thing.
 
2012-06-13 02:44:43 PM  

MrSteve007: fracto73: ok, I agree on your reasoning, but I'm surprised you would do business with Dell or Asus, since they have models with the ram soldered onto the board and you seemed really offended by that here.

I'm curious if you could point out which models you're referring to. I believe I've seen ones like this, (like my netbook) but the one's I've seen offer a 2nd empty slot that is open to extending system RAM.



EEE 700 and the dell mini 1010. I'll grant that they are older netbook models, but my point here is that making the ram not upgradeable in order to make a machine more portable isn't new and certainly doesn't mean that the rest of that companies line is worthless. I get why people don't want it in their machines, but I don't get why they think Apple is scamming people for offering it.
 
2012-06-13 02:48:03 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: fracto73:
The current gen MBP's aren't difficult either. In my experience a mac person knowing how to add ram to their laptop is as likely as a PC person knowing how. Some people just like to feel superior.

Not difficult, but it does require taking off the bottom cover. I'd have preferred if Apple had put a hatch on the bottom like in the original MBP. The unibody MBPs are tons easier to work on, though. Ya take off the bottom cover and everything is right there.



You are right. In my mind I was picturing the Mac books (I know they aren't current) not macbook pro's. My bad.
 
2012-06-13 02:49:04 PM  

xsarien: The point bears repeating, though: Macs age a lot more gracefully than PCs


No, they don't. They age more gracefully than crappy budget PCs, but you can build a PC with the same quality and longevity as a Mac. I have a machine I built back in 2006 that's still running today without a problem. Only thing that ever needed replaced was the hard drive and that's because I cheaped out on it.

The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.
 
2012-06-13 02:51:52 PM  

mccallcl: HotWingConspiracy: Sounds superior to paying Apple to do it.

Not if by making a component user-upgradable they have to compromise in any way on the design of the product. I don't buy laptops so I can take them apart, I don't care if they come apart easy. Also, I have $100.

Marine1: I dream of devices we could swap out parts on.

Nightmare scenario for me or anyone involved in developing for mobile phones. Would make phones double the cost and make supporting them practically impossible.


Not if it's done correctly. I can swap out parts on an x86/64 machine and within reason, most programs will run on Windows without a problem. We just need to get to the point where the technology plateaus. It moves too fast right now.
 
2012-06-13 02:54:42 PM  
Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.
 
2012-06-13 02:54:51 PM  
Apple, we don't want to poking around in the computer, just use the damn thing and buy a new one every 3-4 years.

Want 16GB RAM? You can have that, just pay $500!

What a farking joke, apple can eat my ass. Never once paid for an Apple product and never will.
 
2012-06-13 02:55:11 PM  

Splinshints: xsarien: The point bears repeating, though: Macs age a lot more gracefully than PCs

No, they don't. They age more gracefully than crappy budget PCs, but you can build a PC with the same quality and longevity as a Mac. I have a machine I built back in 2006 that's still running today without a problem. Only thing that ever needed replaced was the hard drive and that's because I cheaped out on it.

The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.



It seems everyone, no matter if they like macs or hate them, wants to compare them with budget PCs.
 
2012-06-13 02:58:25 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.



I think it's more of a size issue than being half-assed. Both your netbook and this mac are trying to be small. If they wanted to half-ass the design they wouldn't have created an entirely new HD design just to make it fit.
 
2012-06-13 02:59:17 PM  

fracto73: Jim_Callahan: Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.


I think it's more of a size issue than being half-assed. Both your netbook and this mac are trying to be small. If they wanted to half-ass the design they wouldn't have created an entirely new HD design just to make it fit.


You know, I've been wondering this over the last few months... just how damned thin does a notebook PC need to be? I mean, really?
 
2012-06-13 03:00:55 PM  

mccallcl: HotWingConspiracy: Sounds superior to paying Apple to do it.

Not if by making a component user-upgradable they have to compromise in any way on the design of the product. I don't buy laptops so I can take them apart, I don't care if they come apart easy. Also, I have $100.


I have $100 too, but that doesn't mean I'm happy to piss it away.

But I can see what you're saying. They decided that a fraction of an inch makes for more portability and decided to sacrifice something for it. It sure doesn't hurt that they can make some extra cash that way on top of it.
 
2012-06-13 03:01:44 PM  

Marine1: fracto73: Jim_Callahan: Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.


I think it's more of a size issue than being half-assed. Both your netbook and this mac are trying to be small. If they wanted to half-ass the design they wouldn't have created an entirely new HD design just to make it fit.

You know, I've been wondering this over the last few months... just how damned thin does a notebook PC need to be? I mean, really?



No idea. I think at some point diminishing returns would kick in and people would be less willing to give useful things up for the extra millimeter, but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.
 
2012-06-13 03:04:16 PM  

Splinshints: The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.


So much this. How many people go buy a PC for 450 bucks (including monitor and printer and whatnot) at target or best buy, don't remove the bloatware installed by the manufacturer, install 50 web browser toolbars and proceed visit website of questionable morals then piss and moan about how much windows sucks when the whole thing goes tits up?
 
2012-06-13 03:04:38 PM  

Rev.K: Kar98: An ONE example would be?

Just read this article. Apple has gone to great lengths to make it as difficult as possible for users to make modifications or improvements on their own. This is done to keep Apple customers coming back to Apple to get their hardware and upgrades and/or to get them to purchase new models sooner than they would have if they were able to do upgrades themselves.

It is painfully obvious that is what they do.

And for users, it sucks. So f*ck Apple in their pompous assholes.


I say tomato, you say kumquat. You say Apple has gone to great lengths to make it as difficult as possible for DIY users, and Apple (and I) say that they've gone to great lengths to make the lightest, fastest, most powerful laptop possible.

For shiats & giggles, go configure a Dell laptop that comes close to this level of performance. The Alienware are really the only ones that can touch this, and when you add the same memory and the same sized SSD, *surprise*, it's virtually as expensive as a new MacBook Pro with a lesser screen.
 
2012-06-13 03:05:09 PM  

Marine1: fracto73: Jim_Callahan: Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.


I think it's more of a size issue than being half-assed. Both your netbook and this mac are trying to be small. If they wanted to half-ass the design they wouldn't have created an entirely new HD design just to make it fit.

You know, I've been wondering this over the last few months... just how damned thin does a notebook PC need to be? I mean, really?


I'm with you. Every time they shave some .0X of an inch off they get pretty excited. Are there really people that were complaining about the size of the last ultra-thin notebook, clamoring for something ever so slightly smaller?
 
2012-06-13 03:05:11 PM  

fracto73: EEE 700 and the dell mini 1010.


With the Dell Mini 1010 - you can double the ram via a $25 daughterboard installation vs. a separate RAM chip . . . Link

And I'm pretty sure one of my buddies at work bought one of those first EEE 700 devices and had no problem replacing the chip . . . Link
 
2012-06-13 03:05:33 PM  

Mugato: I don't know any Mac users who would know how to do that anyway.


*waves* I guess we don't technically "know" each other.

I upgraded the RAM on my MBP, as well as the HDD. It will be my last MBP though, after the ridiculous problems I've had with what should've been a simple HDD upgrade. There's some flaw with my generation of MBP, but only for a certain production window (which, of course, my MBP was built during). I tried three different HDD's before I got one that worked, and even now I get beachballs. *sigh*

I also built my own ivy bridge server with 32Gb of RAM (RAM has gotten ridiculously cheap) running XenServer and multiple VM's, so I suppose I'm not your average Mac user.

/CSB
//I also remember soldering RAM onto the mainboard back in the day
///My lawn, get off of it
 
2012-06-13 03:08:48 PM  

Rev.K: vygramul: Your Socket A is a laptop? Because that's what we're talking about here for Apple. You're not comparing the same two types of systems.

That's true.

But are you saying that Mac desktop units are easily accessible and upgradeable by users with no need for Apple proprietary parts or labor?

Because that's not what a lot of Mac owners have told me.


The iMacs have oscillated in serviceability. But the desktops, for more than a decade now, are actually as easy or easier to service than a PC. The RAM is conveniently in a drawer you can remove - as if it were a PCIe board. So you yanked the drawer, slapped in the new RAM, and returned it. Until the snap-on HDD rails, the Macs were easier. I've not had to look in one for a couple of years, but as of 2010 they hadn't yet moved to that system, but instead were using a drawer method similar to the RAM (but requiring screws). They also were very good about running the cabling behind the motherboard long before Dell or Gateway or HP thought to do so.

You were still paying a lot for the machine, and since I build my own PC desktops, I never bought a tower. (Did get a 3-year old one from work for $100 in 2005.)

The iMac flat-panels (the second generation after the iStalk version) were easy to work on, too. Just loosen a few screws, remove the back, and the RAM, HDD, and wireless card and the modem were trivial to access. They made it much harder later on, and I think the current gen of iMac is not user-serviceable.

I still prefer playing games on my PC than my Mac or the PS3. But I love my Macbook for Photoshop, email, and browsing.
 
2012-06-13 03:10:11 PM  

Marine1: fracto73: Jim_Callahan: Eh, it's the hallmark of cheap/half-assed design. My little 100$ Asus netbook that I use for power-point presentations doesn't allow you to access the battery without physically damaging the case either.

Though actually the RAM is accessible and the screen can be disassembled, so there's that.

//Why I would care on a netbook is beyond me, I can see people being annoyed by this in a more expensive laptop, though.


I think it's more of a size issue than being half-assed. Both your netbook and this mac are trying to be small. If they wanted to half-ass the design they wouldn't have created an entirely new HD design just to make it fit.

You know, I've been wondering this over the last few months... just how damned thin does a notebook PC need to be? I mean, really?


Let me tell you: the iPad has really made a difference to me. But, then, I'm old and the weight difference is tangible for me.
 
kab
2012-06-13 03:10:45 PM  

schattenteufel: ....and it's still a better laptop than you currently own.


Seeing as I own mine, and it does everything I want with zero complaints, including loading dvd's, playing any game I want without using bootcamp, etc, no, it isn't.

schattenteufel: .does that make you mad?


No.. why would it?

mccallcl: I'm sure you'd prefer to let your own ignorance of how computers work control what you can do with the products. Don't worry, you're not alone. Millions of Windows users believe "freedom" means replacing parts themselves, while never stopping to think about how much control they have over the software their computer runs. I don't mean installing whatever you want that someone else made, I mean changing the way the computer functions by writing your own software.

Once you learn to program computers, they are all slaves to do your bidding. Until then, you are the slave, you just get nicer quarters with one master than you do with another. Sometimes Master even lets you do the job of an 11-year-old Asian sweatshop worker, if you choose Windows! Yay for replacing RAM!
I have no idea how to replace memory in any of my machines. Mommy, hold me.

 
2012-06-13 03:15:28 PM  

Splinshints: xsarien: The point bears repeating, though: Macs age a lot more gracefully than PCs

No, they don't. They age more gracefully than crappy budget PCs, but you can build a PC with the same quality and longevity as a Mac. I have a machine I built back in 2006 that's still running today without a problem. Only thing that ever needed replaced was the hard drive and that's because I cheaped out on it.

The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.


Building your own PC is really its own category. But if you're going to buy a pre-made desktop, I'd rather go with the Mac. The failure rate was, at WORST, the same as the PC, and warranty replacements easier. They lasted a hell of a lot longer than either the Dell or Gateways we'd buy.

But, again, building your own is almost always going to be far superior - partly because, let's face it, you're customizing and optimizing your system for what you do.
 
2012-06-13 03:16:12 PM  
This is perhaps the worst iHate Fanboi justification I've ever seen...

CIOs with loose bring-your-own-device policies might find their corporate networks clogged should employees bring the just-announced Macbook Pro computers to work. Introduced at Apple's developer conference Monday, the new Macbook Pro is fitted with a Retina display, whose resolution of 2880-by-1800 pixels packed into a 15.4-inch screen is the crispest screen for a computer yet, clearer than Apple's newest iPad.

But it may also wreak havoc on CIOs' networks and connectivity budgets - better quality displays require more network bandwidth, which allows users to increase data consumption. Consider that experts told CIO Journal earlier this year that the new iPad, which includes a Retina display of 2048-by-1536 resolution with 3.1 million pixels, would slow enterprise networks to a crawl and increase data costs from carriers. Now imagine how a Macbook with 5.1 million pixels - two million more than the new iPad - will increase data traffic in office networks.


No.

Laptops already have a display that's better than HDTV. Something that xkcd has mentioned before...

imgs.xkcd.com

And it's not as though someone's going to be streaming video at higher than 1920 x 1080 as a routine thing. You're going into the realms of WQXGA resolution, where one DVI cable can't handle more than 40 frames a second. Sure, if you're streaming a 4X movie or an IMAX movie file.

upload.wikimedia.org

Not very likely though, is it? The most you're going to be able to access your online movies at is 1080p.

That type of resolution's for looking at more of a single large image without having interpolation happen (and a loss of on-screen image resolution until you zoom into that image). That image is going to take up the same amount of bandwidth whether you email it to someone seeing it on Retina, or someone still using Photoshop 7 at 1024 x 768.

It's as stupid a "reason" as this is a way to save storage space...

dilbert.com
 
2012-06-13 03:19:46 PM  

Jackpot777: dilbert.jpg


You do realize data adds weight, right?

www.newlaunches.com
 
2012-06-13 03:20:03 PM  

MrSteve007: fracto73: EEE 700 and the dell mini 1010.

With the Dell Mini 1010 - you can double the ram via a $25 daughterboard installation vs. a separate RAM chip . . . Link

And I'm pretty sure one of my buddies at work bought one of those first EEE 700 devices and had no problem replacing the chip . . . Link



Yup, looks like I was wrong. I'll chalk it up to a bad memory on my part then. The dell was a buddy of mine's and the EEE was someone talking about not being bale to upgrade their ram, maybe they were just maxed already. I am still halfway certain that it was an EEE model that had the ram integrated though I don't care enough to google it. In the end it wasn't really the point anyway.

I think it is silly to discount an entire brand because they make a design choice you disagree with on some models.
 
2012-06-13 03:21:15 PM  
Why does everyone get so mad at Apple? I don't get mad at BMW for making expensive cars that are too heavily engineered for me to service in my own garage. Most car people don't even get mad because it's understood that BMWs are geared toward a luxury market that cares much more about driving experience than user-serviceability.

Just don't f*cking buy one. This is just the same non-sense from back in the days when everyone started switching to soldered-in CPUs. It's more efficient to just fabricate the board as a single piece.
 
2012-06-13 03:21:39 PM  

Egoy3k: Splinshints: The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.

So much this. How many people go buy a PC for 450 bucks (including monitor and printer and whatnot) at target or best buy, don't remove the bloatware installed by the manufacturer, install 50 web browser toolbars and proceed visit website of questionable morals then piss and moan about how much windows sucks when the whole thing goes tits up?


Way back during the early days of the dotcom boom, I was a tech support rep for a software company. (Still haven't found a better email program than their TCPConnect4 - or even as good - baww.) I was the first one to be able to support their products on both platforms, and so did a lot of it. What I found was that the typical Windows user was, well, pretty ignorant. But the Mac calls were the worst - you got two types of Mac users: a) the complete morons who barely know how to turn on a machine and therefore are pretty much ONLY capable of using a Mac; or, horrors, b) the ultra-super-user Mac Gods who are only calling because the problem is THAT BAD and THAT UNHEARD OF.

I'm glad I bailed out and became a software engineer before people started adding screenfuls of browser toolbars.
 
2012-06-13 03:24:27 PM  
Jackpot777:

Scott Adams posted a blog post not long after describing how smaller fonts REALLY DO save hard drive space. (Although very, very little.)
 
2012-06-13 03:26:43 PM  
*4K, not 4X

ftfm

Does this clown really think, for example, that letters will be more to send because they're rendered on screen with better resolution?

www.thetechblock.com
 
2012-06-13 03:26:55 PM  

vygramul: But, again, building your own is almost always going to be far superior - partly because, let's face it, you're customizing and optimizing your system for what you do.


There are plenty of options for prebuilt quality PCs from both major brands such as Dell and smaller companies. There is no functional difference. There's no magic Apple factory that makes magical Apple parts that aren't also available for PCs or have analogous components available for PCs. If you want to pay for a quality PC that will last a long time, you can; if you don't, you don't have to and you can go the more "disposable" route. If you want quality AND to save some money, you can build your own.

The overall build quality is not a contestable thing between PCs and Macs. The only benefit Macs have in that category is that if you don't want to sift through your options, you don't really have any options to sift through with Apple whereas on the PC side you do have to invest a little time in evaluating various competing products to find one you want.
 
2012-06-13 03:27:58 PM  

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Jackpot777: dilbert.jpg

You do realize data adds weight, right?

[www.newlaunches.com image 450x288]


i301.photobucket.com

He should lighten the molecules with magnets.
 
2012-06-13 03:30:08 PM  

Splinshints: xsarien: The point bears repeating, though: Macs age a lot more gracefully than PCs

No, they don't. They age more gracefully than crappy budget PCs, but you can build a PC with the same quality and longevity as a Mac. I have a machine I built back in 2006 that's still running today without a problem. Only thing that ever needed replaced was the hard drive and that's because I cheaped out on it.

The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.


I really like how it always comes down to "Well, I can build one..."

Yeah, you know what? I can too. Spent the better part of my teen and adult life doing it. But I missed having warranties, and in the case of Apple, a convenient trip downtown to have in-person same-day help with any issues instead of waiting for some jackass in Texas to acknowledge receipt of a part.

So how about we just stick to pre-built machines at comparable build quality and stop copping out?
 
2012-06-13 03:33:42 PM  

Splinshints: vygramul: But, again, building your own is almost always going to be far superior - partly because, let's face it, you're customizing and optimizing your system for what you do.

There are plenty of options for prebuilt quality PCs from both major brands such as Dell and smaller companies. There is no functional difference. There's no magic Apple factory that makes magical Apple parts that aren't also available for PCs or have analogous components available for PCs. If you want to pay for a quality PC that will last a long time, you can; if you don't, you don't have to and you can go the more "disposable" route. If you want quality AND to save some money, you can build your own.

The overall build quality is not a contestable thing between PCs and Macs. The only benefit Macs have in that category is that if you don't want to sift through your options, you don't really have any options to sift through with Apple whereas on the PC side you do have to invest a little time in evaluating various competing products to find one you want.


warranty service on Apple Products is also a lot easier. Go into the nearest apple store vs having to mail it and wait
 
2012-06-13 03:35:34 PM  
Why is anyone surprised by this? The super sleek/small devices apple has been making for years all have the 'inaccessible innards' quality.

It's shocking in the same sense that shiatting on your floor means you have shiat to clean up later.
 
2012-06-13 03:37:13 PM  

Egoy3k: Splinshints: The notion that Apple's stuff lasts longer is nonsense. The option to buy cheap budget PCs of questionable quality doesn't mean there's an obligation and that all PCs are like that.

So much this. How many people go buy a PC for 450 bucks (including monitor and printer and whatnot) at target or best buy, don't remove the bloatware installed by the manufacturer, install 50 web browser toolbars and proceed visit website of questionable morals then piss and moan about how much windows sucks when the whole thing goes tits up?


And you also forgot to mention that they don't bother to maintain any antivirus or adware protection.
 
2012-06-13 03:37:34 PM  

vygramul: But the Mac calls were the worst - you got two types of Mac users: a) the complete morons who barely know how to turn on a machine and therefore are pretty much ONLY capable of using a Mac; or, horrors, b) the ultra-super-user Mac Gods who are only calling because the problem is THAT BAD and THAT UNHEARD OF.


My wife did a stint of Call center support for a high speed ISP her worst calls were mac users too.

My Wife: "OK so you are connected to the router on your desktop, and your iPad and you iPhone are both connected to Wi-Fi and all are able to access the internet. You are going to have to call Applecare for the macbook because the problem is not on our end."

Customer: "Listen dumb ass this is a mac so the problem cannot be with my computer it's your router! Put your supervisor on the line!"

Seriously she said that she didn't have to refuse any more or less tech support for macs. the issue was that every time it was a problem with the mac users computer they refused to believe that the mac was the problem while a PC users would just shuffle off to a PC tech for service at least half the time.

I guess it speaks volumes for their brand loyalty and the fact that they must not have issues all that often as to make being told "Your computer is broken" so offensive but she said they were hands down the worst possible calls to get.
 
2012-06-13 03:37:52 PM  
Who upgrades their laptops? What is this, 1998?
 
2012-06-13 03:38:15 PM  
Full disclosure. I work with Macs professionally (Avids mostly). I use PCs personally (I'm not made of money, am I?). But I have an iPod that I love (even though I run RockBox on it).

This is the problem I have with the whole Apple way of doing things. When I use something like the Avid on a Mac, it's wonderful. Nimble, effective, runs very well on OSX. When I try to use a Mac the way I'd use my PC... for example, organizing my MP3s in a file system as opposed to farking around with meta data in iTunes... I get frustrated. And if I want to do something that I'd generally get a freeware program to do, the selection just isn't the same.

When I use an Apple product with Apple software, I feel like I'm just renting the device. I don't own it because it's either difficult or impossible to customize the experience to my personal taste. There's some other force preventing me from using an elegant, simple solution... perhaps it's the ghost of Steve Jobs, I don't know.
 
2012-06-13 03:43:46 PM  

ongbok: And you also forgot to mention that they don't bother to maintain any antivirus or adware protection.


That's not as much of an issue any more what with MSE on windows. It's not the best out there but it's not bad and if Microsoft had implemented it ten years ago it would have really blunted the advertising edge that apple had on the whole virus issue.
 
2012-06-13 03:45:04 PM  

jgi: Shh! Stop that talk in here. The "build your own" crowd has no idea what the value of their time is and that's the only way management can keep paying them shiat wages while forcing them to work unpaid overtime.


I spent less time building my most recent computer than I would have to spend cleaning off all the pre-loaded malware from a pre-built machine.

Problem?
 
2012-06-13 03:45:15 PM  

vygramul: Jackpot777:

Scott Adams posted a blog post not long after describing how smaller fonts REALLY DO save hard drive space. (Although very, very little.)


Deleting unwanted fonts from your computer, yes. Embedding only the TrueType characters you're using, I can see. But most fonts are vectors. Bezier curves and vector points.

cdn.ilovetypography.com

It shouldn't matter if you're rendering a letter the size of a planet on a display that renders at the nano level, it's still the same letter. Surely! Please say this was an April Fool's joke!

/I'm going to have to see a link...
 
2012-06-13 03:47:52 PM  

MrEricSir: Who upgrades their laptops? What is this, 1998?


lol. this.
 
2012-06-13 03:48:14 PM  

xsarien: So how about we just stick to pre-built machines at comparable build quality and stop copping out?


I already responded to this in relation to another poster. There is no reason you cannot purchase a quality prebuilt PC if you're willing to pay a little more to not have to put it together yourself.

And, no, pointing out that there is the option of a self build is not "copping out", it's a strength offered by PC components that does not realistically exist for Apple products. If you get to arbitrarily dismiss that facet because you don't care about self building I get to dismiss your claims about Apple's warranty because I don't really care about that.

Carth: warranty service on Apple Products is also a lot easier. Go into the nearest apple store vs having to mail it and wait


I've never had experience with Apple's warranty service, but I definitely wasn't thrilled with Toshiba's for my laptop, so I don't think I can debate that.
 
2012-06-13 03:48:17 PM  
Everyone seems to forget what Apple is trading for: There is the hinges and the fan, other than that, the who thing is solid state. The glass likely is gorilla glass. The machine looks pretty but is probably a tank. Do you have a user you support that is accident prone? Get them this computer and don't worry about them.
 
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