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(NJ.com)   As a local GOP official after President Obama's election, I had a front-row seat as it became infected by a dangerous and virulent form of political rabies   (nj.com) divider line 275
    More: Hero, President Obama, Stafford, GOP, Republican, Walter Mondale, Federalist Society, Norman Ornstein, GOP officials  
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8392 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jun 2012 at 12:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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CDP [TotalFark]
2012-06-13 08:10:23 AM  
Mr, Stafford,

I'm sure your (self reported) hero Reagan would embrace the tea party and spit you out.

i132.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-13 08:43:50 AM  
Local political man laments about what his party used to be. News at 11.
 
2012-06-13 08:49:24 AM  
I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.
 
2012-06-13 08:57:22 AM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


It has nothing to do with the Christian Right. It has everything to do with the "news" they are being exposed too. By controlling how a section of the populace views the world, you effect their interactions with that world. The Republican party is what it currently is because the rank and file members honestly live in a different world as the rest of us Americans. They literally live in a world with different facts.
 
2012-06-13 09:10:37 AM  
It's not the D- or the R- that matters, it's the -NJ.
 
2012-06-13 09:17:43 AM  
Republicans in this day and age don't care much about anything other than party loyalty.

They don't want thought or debate -they want people with money and nodding heads.
 
2012-06-13 09:22:26 AM  

WTF Indeed: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.

It has nothing to do with the Christian Right. It has everything to do with the "news" they are being exposed too. By controlling how a section of the populace views the world, you effect their interactions with that world. The Republican party is what it currently is because the rank and file members honestly live in a different world as the rest of us Americans. They literally live in a world with different facts.


I think it is mixture of both misinformation and the adoption of the Christian Right. I know people that believe all the things that Rush and Fox News feed them so they think the Liberals are evil and hellbent on the destruction of the country. I also know people that pay no attention to that but because of the Christian Rights rebranding of the Republican Party they think if you believe in God you must vote Republican because the other party are godless heathens. They both vote totally against their best interests because to do otherwise is either destruction or a hell worthy trespass.
 
2012-06-13 09:50:57 AM  
It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.
 
2012-06-13 10:05:15 AM  

Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.


Gary Johnson. That is all.
 
2012-06-13 10:31:52 AM  

Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.


I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...
 
2012-06-13 10:44:00 AM  

Ricardo Klement: I'm going to go down fighting.


It's time to leave that mess to the Christian Nationalists and concentrate on creating something worthwhile.

If enough people stop buying what Fox News is selling, Fox will stop selling it.
 
2012-06-13 10:45:40 AM  

hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...


more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.
 
2012-06-13 10:48:40 AM  

WTF Indeed: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.

It has nothing to do with the Christian Right. It has everything to do with the "news" they are being exposed too. By controlling how a section of the populace views the world, you effect their interactions with that world. The Republican party is what it currently is because the rank and file members honestly live in a different world as the rest of us Americans. They literally live in a world with different facts.


I wonder what could be causing that...

cloudfront.mediamatters.org
 
2012-06-13 10:52:17 AM  

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.


The leadership skewed badly with GW. It was essentially Quayle 2.0, and we are paying for it now. Yes, the rebate was a popular move, because folks always like cash, but that money could have paid down our debt. Instead, we borrowed like crazy, ballooned the budget even further, and got involved in not one but two very long and expensive conflicts, while simultaneously unhitching safeguards on several industries.

We are soaking in those policies now, and trying to sift through the financial wreckage. While the folks who bet on GW and those disastrous policies are leading the party, I cannot in good conscience support that.
 
2012-06-13 10:54:52 AM  

hubiestubert: I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...


This guy is a New Jersey politician, and only now is he going on about having a front-row seat to the crazy? I find that very hard to believe. Booker and Christie notwithstanding, the state is a running punchline for incompetence and corruption and has been for decades.

Swapping crazy for corrupt ain't exactly noble.
 
2012-06-13 10:59:14 AM  

hubiestubert:

We are soaking in those policies now, and trying to sift through the financial wreckage. While the folks who bet on GW and those disastrous policies are leading the party, I cannot in good conscience support that.


for me, it was the GOP fiscal policies AND the downright scary religious folks that ended up driving me away from the GOP. the Republican fiscal plans DO NOT serve my interests. they take money out of my pocket and give it to people who already have tons of cash and then prevent me from getting back on my feet. Then add in the pro-life/pro-christian prosperity gospel assholes who want to impose a theocracy on this country and....well, i'm done with the GOP.
 
2012-06-13 11:25:31 AM  

Weaver95: hubiestubert:

We are soaking in those policies now, and trying to sift through the financial wreckage. While the folks who bet on GW and those disastrous policies are leading the party, I cannot in good conscience support that.

for me, it was the GOP fiscal policies AND the downright scary religious folks that ended up driving me away from the GOP. the Republican fiscal plans DO NOT serve my interests. they take money out of my pocket and give it to people who already have tons of cash and then prevent me from getting back on my feet. Then add in the pro-life/pro-christian prosperity gospel assholes who want to impose a theocracy on this country and....well, i'm done with the GOP.


Yeah, but they get to wear those awesome lapel pins!

Yeah...most of the people I know that are openly proud about being Republican are also open about doing it to piss off minorities or libtards. Yeah, way to vote for your own interests, asshats.
 
2012-06-13 11:26:36 AM  
*Click* *read* *scroll* Ah, there're the utterly predictable comments below the piece from the exact type of people he's describing
 
2012-06-13 11:33:44 AM  

born_yesterday:
Yeah...most of the people I know that are openly proud about being Republican are also open about doing it to piss off minorities or libtards. Yeah, way to vote for your own interests, asshats.


or they vote single issue on abortion, or gay marriage or immigration or taxes...very few of the GOP rank and file stop to consider what the end result of their blind support of the Republican agenda will have on their bottom line. Sure, you might manage to slow down abortion for a while...but at the same time you just put someone into power who's also going to support outsourcing your job to china. The question Republicans have to ask themselves is if supporting a religious agenda like say...stopping gay marriage...is worth sacrificing your job? hey, you sure got them gays didn't ya? but now you are on unemployment and finding a job in THIS economy is a cast iron biatch. was that an even trade? I certainly don't think so...but i'm weird like that.
 
2012-06-13 11:48:34 AM  

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.


I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate. More and more moderates are apparently extremely susceptible to millions of dollars worth of advertising, and perfectly happy to ignore the process altogether or let themselves be swayed by fancy fonts and dramatic voice-overs.

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.
 
2012-06-13 11:52:52 AM  
And, as you know, rabies means lots of froth.

/Santorum
 
2012-06-13 12:14:36 PM  

poonesfarm: *Click* *read* *scroll* Ah, there're the utterly predictable comments below the piece from the exact type of people he's describing


Shockingly, this isn't lost on everyone there - a lot of people are noticing and saying the same thing. So at least there's that.
 
2012-06-13 12:16:17 PM  
What baffles me is how someone like that could even hang on this long... you'd figure the W years would be enough to drive the reasonable conservatives out of the party.
 
2012-06-13 12:18:28 PM  

Gulper Eel: Swapping crazy for corrupt ain't exactly noble.


atleast you can set your watch to corruption...
 
2012-06-13 12:25:56 PM  
My first political act was passionately lobbying my fourth-grade classmates to vote for Reagan over Walter Mondale in a mock election in 1984

Whoa. I did the exact same thing. And was also in fourth grade when I did it. I didn't really have any awareness of policy back then, I just picked a horse at random and rode it hard.

Still...freaky.

/fark Derpublicans
 
2012-06-13 12:26:54 PM  
Man, those comments are great...

The Earth was 7 degrees hotter when King Henry VIII was in power, so I guess they must have been driving alot of SUV's on those days.
 
2012-06-13 12:26:55 PM  
Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.
 
2012-06-13 12:28:29 PM  

Headso: Gulper Eel: Swapping crazy for corrupt ain't exactly noble.

atleast you can set your watch to corruption...


No shiat. At least corruption will do what is needed to keep the ship afloat out of self interests. The crazies have so convinced themselves that they are right, they will stay the course, blaming anything that goes wrong on taxes, Obamacare or Obama being a Kenyan Muslim
 
2012-06-13 12:30:03 PM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


It is amazing that every single one of your points is classified as a "liberal" position by our body politic today.
 
2012-06-13 12:32:18 PM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


The problem is that they have taken the headings above those examples and switched them.
 
2012-06-13 12:33:14 PM  
He thought John Huntsman would win...that's so cute
 
2012-06-13 12:33:56 PM  

Gulper Eel: It's not the D- or the R- that matters, it's the -NJ.


I'm not sure what your point is, but it's probably in line with one of the comments in the blog, which was that any New Jersey Republican is more liberal than any Virginia Democrat. I wonder if the commenter was aware of the double-edged sword he was grasping. Yes: northern Republicans are often to the left of southern Democrats. And southern Democrats are often to the right of northern Republicans. The influence of southern conservatives in the Democrat party far outweighs the influence of northern liberals in the Republican party. The difference in those groups' influence has soared since Jan. 20, 2009. Only one party has a purity/loyalty oath. Only one party repeatedly says, "Our idea of bipartisanship is for the other party to sign off on whatever we want because MURICA."

It's not the -R or the -D or the -NJ that matters, it's the our-way-period ideology divorced from reality that counts.
 
2012-06-13 12:34:37 PM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


I see that point. But for the longest time they were more about giving room for business to grow and not putting too many taxes and regulations on them to prevent that.

There has been a total shift though from "not too many" taxes/regulations, to "No taxes and no regulations what so ever"

And that is where the brain fart rests.

For example, None of them will come out and say, "The EPA has [insert two regulations] that are not needed and are preventing job growth."

Today it is, "The EPA needs to be abolished"

Or think about the Laffer Curve. I think most of us will agree that there is a point where a higher tax rate will generate less income.
But no one will say where that point is or where we are on the curve today.
It is just, "cut taxes."

And the worse part is, they have turned these concepts into bumper sticker sized talking points that even an idiot can remember and repeat..... and so they do.
 
2012-06-13 12:35:24 PM  
In Republican proposals, the wealthy win, and the rest of us lose- one only has to look at Rep. Paul Ryan's budget to see that.

Ouch.

Romney seems to have gone for a tax reform plan not unlike that of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.). -Jennifer Rubin 2/22/12

Indeed.
 
2012-06-13 12:35:49 PM  

hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...


Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.
 
2012-06-13 12:37:18 PM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


maybe you should just join the Democratic party
/just kidding the democrats don't really want most of those things either
//3rd party?
 
2012-06-13 12:39:14 PM  
While it may not make a difference in the larger discussion, I personally like seeing things like this. This is a guy who has different ideas than mine--we may not agree on anything. But this is a guy I can sit down with and have a discussion; a real discussion, that isn't interrupted with bouts of "LIBZ DESRUCT'N 'MERICA COMMIE FASHIST OBAMA-BIN-LADIN"

I think since the Republicans have been a tow-the-line party for so long, the change happened so gradually, that only now are some of them realizing that the inmates are running the asylum.
 
2012-06-13 12:41:32 PM  

Gyrfalcon: hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.


Its only chance for existence is if it is a replacement party. This country's natural equilibrium doesn't allow for more than two parties to exist.
 
2012-06-13 12:41:43 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.


"Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter."
images.original.popscreen.com
 
2012-06-13 12:43:11 PM  
Props to the writer for his correct usage of the word "virulent" instead of the more commonly (and incorrectly) used "virile." I mean, look- I'm not a big fan of performative masculinity either, but at least I know there's a difference between virile and virulent.

/ew boy cooties
 
2012-06-13 12:43:19 PM  
FTFA: My political affiliation has been woven intrinsically into the very fabric of my being.

That would be part of the problem, right there. Political affiliation should not be part of one's identity.
 
2012-06-13 12:44:08 PM  

Elandriel: I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate. More and more moderates are apparently extremely susceptible to millions of dollars worth of advertising, and perfectly happy to ignore the process altogether or let themselves be swayed by fancy fonts and dramatic voice-overs.


Wisconsin is a bit of a weird one. You had 2 groups of people voting for Walker in the recall. 1) Those that truly support Walker, 2) Those that believe recalls are bad and should only be used as a form of impeachment for crimes.

There was JUST enough non walker supporters who voted for Walker because they didn't support the recall that it tipped the scale.
 
2012-06-13 12:45:29 PM  
There has to be a viable third party that arises out of the nonsense we are experiencing.
 
2012-06-13 12:47:10 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years.


Why not just be a Democrat? For a while now, being a Democrat has meant absolutely nothing except "not Republican." It's a party that had both Dennis Kucinich and Zell Miller in it. All these things: "socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government," could fit in it without anyone blinking.
 
2012-06-13 12:47:46 PM  
Or they realized it and decided what the hell, ignore it, since they were winning. And stupid people are easier to manipulate.

If the unchecked derp wins for them, they'll continue to ignore it, since the end justifies the means in their goopy brains. Though hopefully their unhinged base will destroy them before they destroy the country.
 
2012-06-13 12:48:38 PM  

Gulper Eel: Swapping crazy for corrupt ain't exactly noble.


Just who, exactly, is doing that?
 
2012-06-13 12:49:26 PM  
media.nj.com

Pull that to your bosom, demotards.
 
2012-06-13 12:49:32 PM  

MindStalker: Elandriel: I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate. More and more moderates are apparently extremely susceptible to millions of dollars worth of advertising, and perfectly happy to ignore the process altogether or let themselves be swayed by fancy fonts and dramatic voice-overs.

Wisconsin is a bit of a weird one. You had 2 groups of people voting for Walker in the recall. 1) Those that truly support Walker, 2) Those that believe recalls are bad and should only be used as a form of impeachment for crimes.

There was JUST enough non walker supporters who voted for Walker because they didn't support the recall that it tipped the scale.


Peter Griffin must live in Wisconsin. A recall is for someone who campaigns on something and either A) doesnt do it when given the chance
B) does a 180 for no good reason
C) does something a lot of the voters dont like.

An impeachment is for breaking the law, plain and simple
 
2012-06-13 12:51:37 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Props to the writer for his correct usage of the word "virulent" instead of the more commonly (and incorrectly) used "virile." I mean, look- I'm not a big fan of performative masculinity either, but at least I know there's a difference between virile and virulent.

/ew boy cooties


I have never noticed anyone switch "virile" for "virulent," or vice versa. But if I had, that would be hilarious.
 
2012-06-13 12:57:28 PM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


I would vote for those tenets. I'd also like to see an increase in public works projects (like long range energy planning) and more support to the GAO.
 
2012-06-13 12:58:04 PM  
Rabies? This is going to turn out sadder than Old Yeller.
 
2012-06-13 12:58:07 PM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left to a full on scale-tipping crowd of A-Holes who, have stopped acting in the interest of the country, and now block anything that is proposed by the other Party, even when it embraces Republican principles and plans in the first place. They a re fed a steady diet of misinformation that they are told is really just the "balance' of a mythical "left wing media", and they swear by this misinformation as if it were gospel, even when they are proven wrong with facts, time and again. as for the Christian Right, they haven't adopted them as much as completely threw themselves over to letting the most extreme of them dictate the entire platform, and only commie radicals dare to ask questions.
 
2012-06-13 12:59:41 PM  

CDP: Mr, Stafford,

I'm sure your (self reported) hero Reagan would embrace the tea party and spit you out.

[i132.photobucket.com image 500x341]


Which is kind of weird, because the Tea Party would have labeled Reagan a RINO and drove him out of office.
 
2012-06-13 01:03:03 PM  

Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left


When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"
 
2012-06-13 01:08:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.


In other words, The Libertarian Party.

Sounds good to me.
 
2012-06-13 01:10:22 PM  

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.


It's even making it hard to be an Independent. I used to bounce between Parties when voting, based on which candidate for a certain position I agreed with more. I don't have any respect for any of the Republicans at the moment, with the exception of Jon Huntsman. What the Hell am I supposed to do? The 3rd parties only have so many actual viable options, but I'm not going to become full Democrat either. This is really why we need 4 or 5 viable parties, no one party will ever get enough control at one time to send the country off the rails...
 
2012-06-13 01:11:00 PM  

Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.

I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate.


Just wanted to chime in here.

First of all, to echo what Weaver and Hubie have been saying...I've been on the same fence with the GOP for awhile now. I've been a Republican since I was old enough to vote, and the current direction of the party has been a major disappointment. They've completely abandoned the idea of having moderates within the GOP, and I firmly believe electing Mitt Romney will exacerbate the current clusterfark this country finds itself in. I haven't turned in my GOP card yet, but I've been thinking about it if for no other reason than to send a message (a small message, but a message nonetheless).

To address Wisconsin, I really think a lot of what happened behind the failed recall is that there was a sizable chunk of the voters in Wisconsin who believe that a recall election shouldn't be used against someone because you disagree with his policies. Recalls are there to protect the populace against corruption and malfeasance, not because you don't like the politician or he did something you don't like. This meant, you had people voting against the recall despite the fact they don't necessarily appreciate the guy they were keeping in office. The exit poll numbers, with many democrats and union households voting against the recall, seem to verify this sentiment.
 
2012-06-13 01:13:19 PM  

Cythraul: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Props to the writer for his correct usage of the word "virulent" instead of the more commonly (and incorrectly) used "virile." I mean, look- I'm not a big fan of performative masculinity either, but at least I know there's a difference between virile and virulent.

/ew boy cooties

I have never noticed anyone switch "virile" for "virulent," or vice versa. But if I had, that would be hilarious.


Um, "viral," maybe?
 
2012-06-13 01:14:54 PM  
If Romney wins, i don't think he will, but if he does, will the Dems pull the same shiat that the republicans did when Obama was in office? Probably. So what do we do when we have 2 political parties that control our government who are both unwilling to do anything. What to do, what to do, what to do.

/vote republicrat
//or vote democlican
 
2012-06-13 01:15:18 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"


This.
 
2012-06-13 01:19:03 PM  
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. -- Barry Goldwater, 1994
 
2012-06-13 01:19:41 PM  

blastoh: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


Or think about the Laffer Curve. I think most of us will agree that there is a point where a higher tax rate will generate less income.
But no one will say where that point is or where we are on the curve today.
It is just, "cut taxes."


I think we're at a point where, upon giving the upper 20% two massive tax cuts in the past decade, that taxes are just too low. That would include for people like me (I'm around the median income) who certainly benefited a wee bit from the Bush tax cuts. The problem is that the current GOP, thank to a smug, doughy white guy, have pretty much all pledged to never ever raise taxes again, no matter what. It doesn't matter if they're down to historical or near historical lows and our government is crumbling in part because of this.

Now, let's take a look at the 90s. President Clinton really was not this gigantic liberal boogeyman the GOP made him out to be. Yes, he had some scandals in office, but when it came down to it, he was a fiscal moderate. When he left office the economy was in solid shape and the government budget was heading into amazing territory.

My proposal regarding taxes would be to reset the tax levels to what they were in 1999 AND eliminate any massive loopholes that give tons of money to Big Oil and Big Corn (and any other massive handouts). Additionally, reinstitute the Paygo policies enacted in 1993.

This would go quite a ways to getting us back on the right track.

Fortunately, Congressional gridlock will probably serve to seeing the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year, so that's step one.
 
2012-06-13 01:19:59 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"


Late 19th and early 20th century.
 
2012-06-13 01:20:36 PM  

soia: If Romney wins, i don't think he will, but if he does, will the Dems pull the same shiat that the republicans did when Obama was in office? Probably. So what do we do when we have 2 political parties that control our government who are both unwilling to do anything. What to do, what to do, what to do.

/vote republicrat
//or vote democlican


Move to Canadia.
 
2012-06-13 01:23:02 PM  
Its fevered hallucinations involve threats from imaginary communists and socialists who, seemingly, lurk around every corner

And then the very Boobieser calls him a socialist.

I'll be more impressed with people like this when they actually start organizing against the GOP.
 
2012-06-13 01:23:31 PM  

Dog Welder: Move to Canadia.


You know, i love calling it Canadia as well. My wife is a professor and we don't know where she will eventually find a tenure track position.
 
2012-06-13 01:24:41 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"


We've had a left that needed balance as much as we have a right that needs balance. Somewhere in between is where our country is going to be the healthiest.

What we DON'T have though, is a "vast left wing media conspiracy", or other such nonsense.
 
2012-06-13 01:26:21 PM  

soia: If Romney wins, i don't think he will, but if he does, will the Dems pull the same shiat that the republicans did when Obama was in office? Probably.


Probably not. Anyone who paid attention during the Bush years knows the democrats are not only willing to comprimise, but they're also willing to completely cave in too.
 
2012-06-13 01:29:33 PM  

Mikey1969: PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"

We've had a left that needed balance as much as we have a right that needs balance. Somewhere in between is where our country is going to be the healthiest.

What we DON'T have though, is a "vast left wing media conspiracy", or other such nonsense.


I'm not sure of if you're aware, in a larger sense, of how un-left what you call the "left" really is.
 
2012-06-13 01:29:38 PM  

Mikey1969: We've had a left that needed balance as much as we have a right that needs balance. Somewhere in between is where our country is going to be the healthiest.


We leftists do exist. But the idea that we have any significant representation in our government is baseless.
 
2012-06-13 01:30:00 PM  
Reagan invited these people in and gave them a veneer of legitimacy.
The difference is, while Reagan didn't believe his own bullsh*t, the teabaggers have made it their Gospel.

www.theage.com.au

/look up Bachmann's story
 
2012-06-13 01:30:03 PM  
FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.

/remember, an anti-mormon statement by a lib is a always an isolated incident
//an anti-obama statement no matter what by a republican is an indicator of wide spread racism
///criticizing obama except for not being liberal enough is always racist, and complaining that it is only makes you more racist
 
2012-06-13 01:30:38 PM  
Well I'm convinced! As a long time conservative I am now going to switch my vote to the Democrats. This man's story has touched me deeply. It's now obvious to me that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful and don't care for the rest of society, while the Democrats are the party of the poor and downtrodden and want to make America a utopian paradise. How could I not have seen this before? I am so ashamed.
 
2012-06-13 01:30:55 PM  

shastacola: soia: If Romney wins, i don't think he will, but if he does, will the Dems pull the same shiat that the republicans did when Obama was in office? Probably.

Probably not. Anyone who paid attention during the Bush years knows the democrats are not only willing to comprimise, but they're also willing to completely cave in too.


Actually, the Dems did a lot of filibustering during Bush's second term, and Pelosi basically either stalled some or flatout refused to bring a vote to a number of GOP plans.

Don't get me wrong...the GOP have turned around and turned these tactics up to 11, but it's not like the Democrats' hands are completely clean here.
 
2012-06-13 01:32:36 PM  

squidgod2000: Man, those comments are great...

The Earth was 7 degrees hotter when King Henry VIII was in power, so I guess they must have been driving alot of SUV's on those days.


That amounts to "I don't understand rocket science, therefore there is no space program."
 
2012-06-13 01:32:45 PM  
The evil genius of the conservative movement was convincing people that there is a "liberal media." That way, any "facts" that may creep into the discussion of policy can be discounted if they contradict Republican dogma.

If you get people to distrust what they hear and see, not only distrust but out right reject what they see and hear, you can get them to do just about anything in furtherance of the cause.

/you know who else railed against the media conspiracy
 
2012-06-13 01:33:47 PM  

tcan: Well I'm convinced! As a long time conservative I am now going to switch my vote to the Democrats. This man's story has touched me deeply. It's now obvious to me that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful and don't care for the rest of society, while the Democrats are the party of the poor and downtrodden and want to make America a utopian paradise. How could I not have seen this before? I am so ashamed.


You'll get better
 
2012-06-13 01:33:59 PM  

beta_plus: FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.

/remember, an anti-mormon statement by a lib is a always an isolated incident
//an anti-obama statement no matter what by a republican is an indicator of wide spread racism
///criticizing obama except for not being liberal enough is always racist, and complaining that it is only makes you more racist


Well done for proving the author's point. You sound like a reasonable, well-adjusted person who would be more than happy to compromise for the greater good. No, wait a sec, I mean you're a raging retard who is obsessed with Obama's melatonin levels.
 
2012-06-13 01:34:01 PM  

Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.


In 1988 When I registered to Vote I checked the Republican box. The First time I didn't pull the (R) lever in a presidential election was 2001 because I couldn't forgive Bush for what he had done to McCain in SC. By 2003 I was a "trusted user diarist" with a fairly wide following on Daily Kos. I don't think my baseline poltical views and values changed all that much , I honestly think the Republican party drifted that far right ward. It was bad before 9/11 but that event made some fo them think they now had Carte Blanche to force everyone to think the way they did by calling it " Patriotism", that's when the party crossed the line into batshiat insane territory for me.
 
2012-06-13 01:34:12 PM  

beta_plus: FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.


[Citation Needed]
 
2012-06-13 01:35:00 PM  

beta_plus: That's when I realized this guy was a schill.


Yeah, well, if he's a schill then you're a ptool!
 
2012-06-13 01:35:44 PM  

Magorn: In 1988 When I registered to Vote I checked the Republican box. The First time I didn't pull the (R) lever in a presidential election was 2001 because I couldn't forgive Bush for what he had done to McCain in SC. By 2003 I was a "trusted user diarist" with a fairly wide following on Daily Kos. I don't think my baseline poltical views and values changed all that much , I honestly think the Republican party drifted that far right ward. It was bad before 9/11 but that event made some fo them think they now had Carte Blanche to force everyone to think the way they did by calling it " Patriotism", that's when the party crossed the line into batshiat insane territory for me.


It's also possible that you were never a conservative, you just bought into the decades-long media campaign to make "liberal" a dirty word in America.
 
2012-06-13 01:35:50 PM  

tcan: Well I'm convinced! As a long time conservative I am now going to switch my vote to the Democrats. This man's story has touched me deeply. It's now obvious to me that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful and don't care for the rest of society, while the Democrats are the party of the poor and downtrodden and want to make America a utopian paradise. How could I not have seen this before? I am so ashamed.


0/10
 
2012-06-13 01:36:42 PM  

Xythero: Why not just be a Democrat? For a while now, being a Democrat has meant absolutely nothing except "not Republican."


I really hate to use the "both sides are bad..." argument, but both sides do seem to be identifying themselves as "I'm not the other guy" more than what they actually do stand for.
 
2012-06-13 01:38:34 PM  

beta_plus: FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.

/remember, an anti-mormon statement by a lib is a always an isolated incident
//an anti-obama statement no matter what by a republican is an indicator of wide spread racism
///criticizing obama except for not being liberal enough is always racist, and complaining that it is only makes you more racist


Hey, everybody! It's one of those global warming deniers that laughs at science. Let's all point and laugh at him

images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-06-13 01:39:58 PM  

washington: He thought John Huntsman would win...that's so cute


No, he didn't. He admitted it'd be a miracle....

FTFA: (...)in the desperate hope that some game-changing miracle would occur, such as a victory by Governor Jon Huntsman in the Republican presidential primary.
 
2012-06-13 01:41:48 PM  

Job Creator: tcan: Well I'm convinced! As a long time conservative I am now going to switch my vote to the Democrats. This man's story has touched me deeply. It's now obvious to me that the Republicans are the party of the rich and powerful and don't care for the rest of society, while the Democrats are the party of the poor and downtrodden and want to make America a utopian paradise. How could I not have seen this before? I am so ashamed.

0/10


How dare you Sir. Do you doubt my sincerity?
 
2012-06-13 01:42:07 PM  

Wooly Bully: We leftists do exist. But the idea that we have any significant representation in our government is baseless.


That doesn't mean that we don't need balance. Notice that I haven't stated that our government is running crazy with Lefties. I just noted that I stand in the middle, because no one side has all of the answers to anything at all. I'm not going to run out and vote for all the Lefties I can just because they are under-represented, at least according to you. Funny thing is, since nobody on the Right has anything constructive to add, I ain't voting for them...
 
2012-06-13 01:42:48 PM  
RINO RINO RINO RINO RINO RINO
 
2012-06-13 01:43:58 PM  

LasersHurt: I'm not sure of if you're aware, in a larger sense, of how un-left what you call the "left" really is.


It's all we got right now... You want it more left wing, nearer to the "Socialism" the 'Pubs are always scared of, that's fine by me, but you have to change it. Thee things don't usually change on their own.
 
2012-06-13 01:46:40 PM  

Dog Welder:
To address Wisconsin, I really think a lot of what happened behind the failed recall is that there was a sizable chunk of the voters in Wisconsin who believe that a recall election shouldn't be used against someone because you disagree with his policies. Recalls are there to protect the populace against corruption and malfeasance, not because you don't like the politician or he did something you don't like. This meant, you had people voting against the recall despite the fact they don't necessarily appreciate the guy they were keeping in office. The exit poll numbers, with many democrats and union households voting against the recall, seem to verify this sentiment.


I'm sure that's true in some cases. I'm sure there was also a strong element of incumbentism. People who get into office tend to stay in office. I'm also sure that there was an element of "any conservative is better than any liberal." It was a mix of things.

But I also bet that a lot of people who say, "Recalls should be for malfeasance, not disagreement with policies" would cheer on an impeachment of Obama over health insurance reform. To them, that's not a policy, but a hideous crime, gangsterism, tyranny. So it all depends on what you mean by "malfeasance" and "policy."

Some people think that pushing through legislation to remove public unions' power of collective bargaining is a policy, others think it's something worse. Many in Wisconsin said that this step, which happened right after Walker took office, came as a complete surprise and seemed to indicate that he was not the man they thought they were electing. Obama made health care reform a central part of his campaign rhetoric.
 
2012-06-13 01:48:34 PM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


Uhh, why don't you just call yourself a Democrat?
 
2012-06-13 01:50:21 PM  

bloobeary: In other words, The Libertarian Party.


You can't be serious.
 
MFL
2012-06-13 01:50:23 PM  
I am no longer a democrat since they do not support Paul Ryan's budget and Mitt Romney's economic plan.
 
2012-06-13 01:50:29 PM  

beta_plus: FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.

/remember, an anti-mormon statement by a lib is a always an isolated incident
//an anti-obama statement no matter what by a republican is an indicator of wide spread racism
///criticizing obama except for not being liberal enough is always racist, and complaining that it is only makes you more racist


And this post is when I realized you have extra chromosomes.
 
2012-06-13 01:53:57 PM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


What's changed? A lot! Sure they were always pro-establishment but they still felt a sense of culpability to their electorate. They would support things that their constituents wanted but they might not have been so keen on. Hell, NIXON proposed a true universal healthcare system and a minimum income, things FAR too liberal for Obama to embrace these days.

The Republicans of old weren't just the guys who shouted the loudest, they actually knew how to do their job. The Teatards couldn't even get themselves sworn into office without screwing it up. They knew how to debate, compromise, get things done and keep the lights on. Today the party screams for the death of all civic institutions and has made their time office blatant money grabs for their corporate backers while racking up massive public debt to be pushed onto the rest of us.

It didn't used to be like that.
 
2012-06-13 01:59:35 PM  

MFL: I am no longer a democrat since they do not support Paul Ryan's budget and Mitt Romney's economic plan.


He didn't advocate any Democratic positions.
 
2012-06-13 01:59:53 PM  

poonesfarm: *Click* *read* *scroll* Ah, there're the utterly predictable comments below the piece from the exact type of people he's describing


As sure as the sun rises in the east.
 
2012-06-13 02:01:14 PM  

beta_plus: FTFA : " Climate change- a reality recognized by every single significant scientific body ..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's when I realized this guy was a schill.

/remember, an anti-mormon statement by a lib is a always an isolated incident
//an anti-obama statement no matter what by a republican is an indicator of wide spread racism
///criticizing obama except for not being liberal enough is always racist, and complaining that it is only makes you more racist


Oh look, one of the people the article is about.
 
2012-06-13 02:03:31 PM  

Mikey1969: We've had a left that needed balance as much as we have a right that needs balance. Somewhere in between is where our country is going to be the healthiest.

What we DON'T have though, is a "vast left wing media conspiracy", or other such nonsense.


I'm sorry, but a "balanced" right looks a lot like what we call the left these days. This country is in for a world of hurt if they decide that the trust is somewhere between the democrats and the Republicans.
 
2012-06-13 02:07:55 PM  
I devoted substantial amounts of my time, my talent, and my treasure to supporting local candidates running for office and to building the Party organization.

What? Are you a goddam pirate or something? Good grief just say you volunteered and made donations instead of martyring yourself.
 
2012-06-13 02:08:20 PM  

Dog Welder: To address Wisconsin, I really think a lot of what happened behind the failed recall is that there was a sizable chunk of the voters in Wisconsin who believe that a recall election shouldn't be used against someone because you disagree with his policies. Recalls are there to protect the populace against corruption and malfeasance, not because you don't like the politician or he did something you don't like. This meant, you had people voting against the recall despite the fact they don't necessarily appreciate the guy they were keeping in office. The exit poll numbers, with many democrats and union households voting against the recall, seem to verify this sentiment.


Which still doesn't make sense to me, as it looks like Walker's entire term in office has been corruption and malfeasance.
 
2012-06-13 02:09:02 PM  
I have a huge problem with statements like this

I came to the decision to leave the GOP not with a heavy heart, but with a broken one. - FTFA

Your own damn fault, homeboy. If your party has to become this unhinged before you can make a conscientious decision to jump ship, your political fervor and devotion to party was getting in the way of your critical thinking.
 
MFL
2012-06-13 02:11:40 PM  
MFL: I am no longer a democrat since they do not support Paul Ryan's budget and Mitt Romney's economic plan.


HotWingConspiracy He didn't advocate any Democratic positions.

Being against the GOP is the Democrats only position this time around.
 
2012-06-13 02:17:50 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: I devoted substantial amounts of my time, my talent, and my treasure to supporting local candidates running for office and to building the Party organization.

What? Are you a goddam pirate or something? Good grief just say you volunteered and made donations instead of martyring yourself.


What, no appreciation for the ancient and acclaimed art of alliteration?

/you smell unwashed.
 
2012-06-13 02:19:52 PM  

Ned Stark: Representative of the unwashed masses: I devoted substantial amounts of my time, my talent, and my treasure to supporting local candidates running for office and to building the Party organization.

What? Are you a goddam pirate or something? Good grief just say you volunteered and made donations instead of martyring yourself.

What, no appreciation for the ancient and acclaimed art of alliteration?

/you smell unwashed.


*sniffs underarms* Well maybe I did miss my morning shower, but I did put on clean socks.
 
2012-06-13 02:20:03 PM  

Rent Party: Uhh, why don't you just call yourself a Democrat?


The word "Democrat" refers to registered members of the Democratic Party.

ricromero.jpg
 
2012-06-13 02:21:06 PM  

Jackson Herring: Magorn: In 1988 When I registered to Vote I checked the Republican box. The First time I didn't pull the (R) lever in a presidential election was 2001 because I couldn't forgive Bush for what he had done to McCain in SC. By 2003 I was a "trusted user diarist" with a fairly wide following on Daily Kos. I don't think my baseline poltical views and values changed all that much , I honestly think the Republican party drifted that far right ward. It was bad before 9/11 but that event made some fo them think they now had Carte Blanche to force everyone to think the way they did by calling it " Patriotism", that's when the party crossed the line into batshiat insane territory for me.

It's also possible that you were never a conservative, you just bought into the decades-long media campaign to make "liberal" a dirty word in America.


This is a distinct possibility. On the one hand I was raised strict Roman Catholic, which in the 80's seemed to be synonomous with "republican". On the other hand, it meant I was exposed to Catholic Social justice teachings and taught to regard people like Dorothy Day as heros not villians.

So once I started having my own ideas sbout things like abortion, it might be that scales just started falling from my eyes. I do recall one very specfic moment, near the end of my "transformation", where being exposed in law school to the economic idea of "the marginal cost of money" helped hammer home for me how morally and intellectually bankrupt the GOP's arguments on "Tort reform " really were. And that seemed to be a pattern during that time: the more I bothered to study and learn about a particular subject, the less sense the GOP's position on it seemed to make
 
2012-06-13 02:21:43 PM  
I think a lot of the problems come from their insane attempts to wed Objectivism to Christianity.
 
2012-06-13 02:22:41 PM  

Zerochance: I have a huge problem with statements like this

I came to the decision to leave the GOP not with a heavy heart, but with a broken one. - FTFA

Your own damn fault, homeboy. If your party has to become this unhinged before you can make a conscientious decision to jump ship, your political fervor and devotion to party was getting in the way of your critical thinking.


That up there.

This crap started before Reagan, and anyone that didn't see it coming wasn't looking very hard. The GOP has been a bunch of flag waving Jingoists for 35 years. The reason this clown was a Republican in the first place is right there at the front of the article. His fourth grade mind reasoned him into it. Most adults grow out of that about the time they get a job and start paying bills, but some people never do.
 
2012-06-13 02:24:10 PM  

WTF Indeed: Local political man laments about what his party used to be. News at 11.


The fact that this is so common--and that all of these people are saying that the Republican party is outright dangerous--is a pretty damn good warning sign in my opinion.
 
2012-06-13 02:25:11 PM  

LasersHurt: Rent Party: Uhh, why don't you just call yourself a Democrat?

The word "Democrat" refers to registered members of the Democratic Party.

ricromero.jpg


Everything he listed is pretty much part and parcel of the Democratic platform. The harsh truth that these turds don't want to admit is that the genuinely conservative party these days (since Bubba Clinton, no less) is the Democratic Party. So if you really are a "conservative" as opposed to just a knuckle dragging boot lick, put the D by your name.
 
2012-06-13 02:26:17 PM  
The Republican Party has changed?
Really?
That's what's you're going with?
Really?

Ahem...
On the other side, there is the Wall Street way of life and politics. Trust the leader! Let big business take care of prices and profits! Measure all things by money! That is the philosophy of the masters of the Republican Party.
Well, I have been studying the Republican Party for over 12 years at close hand in the Capital of the United States. And by this time, I have discovered where the Republicans stand on most of the major issues.
Since they won't tell you themselves, I am going to tell you.

Republicans approve of the American farmer -- but they are willing to help him go broke.
They stand four-square for the American home -- but not for housing.
They are strong for labor -- but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights.
They favor minimum wage -- the smaller the minimum wage the better.
They endorse educational opportunity for all -- but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools.
They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine -- for people who can afford them.
They approve of social security benefits -- so much so that they took them away from almost a million people...
They favor the admission of displaced persons -- but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.
They consider electric power a great blessing -- but only when the private power companies get their rake-off.
They say TVA is wonderful -- but we ought never to try it again.
They condemn "cruelly high prices" -- but fight to the death every effort to bring them down.
They think American standard of living is a fine thing -- so long as it doesn't spread to all the people.
And they admire the Government of the United States -- so much that they would like to buy it.

-Harry S. "The Buck Stops Here" Truman in 1948
 
2012-06-13 02:33:09 PM  

MFL: MFL: I am no longer a democrat since they do not support Paul Ryan's budget and Mitt Romney's economic plan.


HotWingConspiracy He didn't advocate any Democratic positions.

Being against the GOP is the Democrats only position this time around.


Damn, he really had you pegged.
 
2012-06-13 02:33:15 PM  

GOP
media.nj.com
I AM DISAPPOINT
 
2012-06-13 02:42:27 PM  

IrateShadow: I'm sorry, but a "balanced" right looks a lot like what we call the left these days. This country is in for a world of hurt if they decide that the trust is somewhere between the democrats and the Republicans.


And that is the horns of the dilemma... The Dems haven't swayed much, but the Right that I used to balance them out has swung so far off the tracks that I have no center at the moment. Even 2004 wasn't like this. The 90's were easier, the asshole quotient on the Right was actually much lower.
 
2012-06-13 02:42:31 PM  

MFL: Being against the GOP is the Democrats only position this time around.


Captain Projection awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!
*MFL flies out of thread*
 
2012-06-13 02:46:42 PM  

Kibbler: Dog Welder:
To address Wisconsin, I really think a lot of what happened behind the failed recall is that there was a sizable chunk of the voters in Wisconsin who believe that a recall election shouldn't be used against someone because you disagree with his policies. Recalls are there to protect the populace against corruption and malfeasance, not because you don't like the politician or he did something you don't like. This meant, you had people voting against the recall despite the fact they don't necessarily appreciate the guy they were keeping in office. The exit poll numbers, with many democrats and union households voting against the recall, seem to verify this sentiment.

I'm sure that's true in some cases. I'm sure there was also a strong element of incumbentism. People who get into office tend to stay in office. I'm also sure that there was an element of "any conservative is better than any liberal." It was a mix of things.

But I also bet that a lot of people who say, "Recalls should be for malfeasance, not disagreement with policies" would cheer on an impeachment of Obama over health insurance reform. To them, that's not a policy, but a hideous crime, gangsterism, tyranny. So it all depends on what you mean by "malfeasance" and "policy."

Some people think that pushing through legislation to remove public unions' power of collective bargaining is a policy, others think it's something worse. Many in Wisconsin said that this step, which happened right after Walker took office, came as a complete surprise and seemed to indicate that he was not the man they thought they were electing. Obama made health care reform a central part of his campaign rhetoric.


I'm really not close enough to what happened in Wisconsin to know what Walker promised or didn't promise during his campaign. I've heard some shills say he was going to do what he did and heard other shills say they were blindsided by his actions.

As far as Obama goes, I'll admit I voted for McCain, but when Obama won I was hoping he'd be able to get this country put back on the right track because we definitely needed it. Unfortunately, the Tea Party has done everything they can to try to get this country to burn down in order to prove a point, and I can't abide by that kind of behavior in our politicians. We elected them to fix the problems, not to exacerbate them to score political points.
 
2012-06-13 02:48:10 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"


1912.
 
2012-06-13 02:55:10 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"

1912.


Can you imagine how different things would have been if Theodore had won that election? I wonder how different World War 1 would have turned out otherwise, and how different the political landscape would have been with Roosevelt around for a couple more decades (having not ruined his health with the trip to the Amazon)
 
2012-06-13 02:57:07 PM  
http://www.fark.com/cgi/go.pl?i=7160354&s=1
 
2012-06-13 03:01:26 PM  

Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task... because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.


^ THIS If you can't see it, you are blind.
 
2012-06-13 03:05:24 PM  

Rent Party: So if you really are a "conservative" as opposed to just a knuckle dragging boot lick, put the D by your name.


In some ways, yes. In other ways, hell no.

In the fiscal conservative sense, not really. However, Republicans don't fit this bill very well either. In the 'small goverment' sense, one side appears not to support it at all and the other side gives it lip service.
 
2012-06-13 03:07:26 PM  

Strik3r: Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task... because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.

^ THIS If you can't see it, you are blind.


So what's the media's game? I submit to you that the media is merely a tool of the people that own it. It's the soft-sell technique of the same type of people that use the direct tactic of buying legislation directly from elected officials.
 
2012-06-13 03:10:20 PM  

HeadLever:

In the fiscal conservative sense, not really. However, Republicans don't fit this bill very well either. In the 'small goverment' sense, one side appears not to support it at all and the other side gives it lip service.


In the fiscal conservative sense, really. Fiscal conservation is not "Cut yer taxes!!!!" it's "pay your bills." Republicans have time and time again demonstrated they would rather borrow against our future to invest in things that have very little long term value, primarily explody things that no one even asked for. The closest we've come to balanced budgets in the past have always been under Democratic administrations.

The government shrank every year of the Clinton administration except the first. Small government. Bush put together the single largest bureaucracy in the recorded history of mankind.
 
2012-06-13 03:12:48 PM  

HeadLever: Rent Party: So if you really are a "conservative" as opposed to just a knuckle dragging boot lick, put the D by your name.

In some ways, yes. In other ways, hell no.

In the fiscal conservative sense, not really. However, Republicans don't fit this bill very well either. In the 'small goverment' sense, one side appears not to support it at all and the other side gives it lip service.


'Small government' these days seems to mean 'poor people should just die'. Or at least have no one to turn to if they have a grievance.
 
2012-06-13 03:13:16 PM  

Mercutio74: Strik3r: Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task... because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.

^ THIS If you can't see it, you are blind.

So what's the media's game? I submit to you that the media is merely a tool of the people that own it. It's the soft-sell technique of the same type of people that use the direct tactic of buying legislation directly from elected officials.


Some people have trouble looking that deep, but I agree with you. So, who'd be interested in buying legislation and influencing it through the media? I'd wager, it's someone who stands to make a buck from it.
 
2012-06-13 03:22:17 PM  

Rent Party: Fiscal conservation is not "Cut yer taxes!!!!" it's "pay your bills."


I'll agree with that.

Republicans have time and time again demonstrated they would rather borrow against our future to invest in things that have very little long term value, primarily explody things that no one even asked for.

I'll agree with that as well. In fact, I already alluded to that.

The closest we've come to balanced budgets in the past have always been under Democratic administrations.

True, but the Rs had the Contgress during that time. We also had an economic bubble. Those also 'helped'.

I am not necessarily saing that Dems are worse than Rs in this regard, but just that the policy goals do not line up very well with the 'small goverment' ideal. As I said earlier, the Rs at least give it a mention in thier policies, even though they have never really done much about it.
 
2012-06-13 03:24:56 PM  
FTFA: As Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ornstein have written, "the Republican Party, has become an insurgent outlier-ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence, and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition." Its reckless behavior helps drive the political dysfunction crippling our nation.

The problem is that their supporters are cheering them on as they do this. This is what they want and they are attempting to force America down this path because they have "faith" that it will work out.
 
2012-06-13 03:26:23 PM  

Alphax: 'Small government' these days seems to mean 'poor people should just die'. Or at least have no one to turn to if they have a grievance.


While much of that is partisan hyperbole, I am not a fan of many of thier policies in this regard. If you are going to really do something about the spending problem, you need to start with DoD, then move on to Medicare/Medicaid, then on to Social Security. Once you still have that done and still have issues, then you can start looking at NPR.

That being said, some low hanging fruit does existing in may of the smaller programs that could easily be reformed if both sides would actually discuss the issue in an honest way.
 
2012-06-13 03:27:09 PM  

HeadLever:

I am not necessarily saing that Dems are worse than Rs in this regard, but just that the policy goals do not line up very well with the 'small goverment' ideal. As I said earlier, the Rs at least give it a mention in thier policies, even though they have never really done much about it.


And the D's actually do something about it, but get no mention. "The Rs controlled the congress" completely ignores the fact that while the pass the budget, it is the Executive that asks for it. It ignores the fact that economic policy has a very real effect on, well, the economy, so those "bubbles" happen more frequently. The Republican agenda has been to block anything that might lead to growth, so they can say "see, the D's don't know how to grow an economy!" knowing that people will buy it, based on nothing other than what they've been told.

Real conservatives are generally found in the Democratic party. Boot licking authoritarians (big government types, ya know) are all Republicans.
 
2012-06-13 03:28:05 PM  

HeadLever: While much of that is partisan hyperbole,


According to whom?

I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.
 
2012-06-13 03:28:34 PM  

Mercutio74: Strik3r: Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task... because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.

^ THIS If you can't see it, you are blind.

So what's the media's game? I submit to you that the media is merely a tool of the people that own it. It's the soft-sell technique of the same type of people that use the direct tactic of buying legislation directly from elected officials.


It's all about manufacturing consent. Advertising on media is a subtle way of influencing the media's tilt.
 
2012-06-13 03:29:59 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"

1912.


Let's also not forget that LA gov/Senator Huey Long for while had considerable prominence and power thanks to a Tea Party -like movement he created inside the Democratic Party That staked out territory well to the left of FDR and the party establishment.
 
2012-06-13 03:30:54 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: I devoted substantial amounts of my time, my talent, and my treasure to supporting local candidates running for office and to building the Party organization.

What? Are you a goddam pirate or something? Good grief just say you volunteered and made donations instead of martyring yourself.


Ok, this statement proves that this man wasn't even a RINO before. This bold phrase is used by non-profit marketers in their fundraising. Get a volunteer, get an in-kind donation, or get cash. Repulican's in non-profits are either misguided, crooked, or working for a non-altruistic cause.

However, there were a LOT more federal grants available for non-profits during Bush Jr.'s time.
 
2012-06-13 03:40:28 PM  

Rent Party: And the D's actually do something about it,


Not really. During the budget battles of the 90s, it was typically the Clinton admistration fighting to increase the budget spending, with the Republicans fighting to cut spending. Read up on the Government Shutdowns.

Overall, It worked out pretty decent with Clinton, much of it because they kind of kept each other somewhat in line. Clinton didn't get everything he wanted and neither did the Rs in congress. Remember, things like Welfare Reform the cooldown to the Cold War, the Tax Comprimise of 97 were all things that really helped the economy grow and expand while keeping government spending somewhat in line.
 
2012-06-13 03:41:49 PM  

Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.


You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?
 
2012-06-13 03:42:33 PM  

HeadLever: Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.

You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?


Yes, seriously. You haven't noticed?
 
2012-06-13 03:44:49 PM  

Alphax: Yes, seriously. You haven't noticed?


Lol. Ok.
 
2012-06-13 03:54:28 PM  

GWLush: I think it is mixture of both misinformation and the adoption of the Christian Right. I know people that believe all the things that Rush and Fox News feed them so they think the Liberals are evil and hellbent on the destruction of the country. I also know people that pay no attention to that but because of the Christian Rights rebranding of the Republican Party they think if you believe in God you must vote Republican because the other party are godless heathens. They both vote totally against their best interests because to do otherwise is either destruction or a hell worthy trespass.


Eh, you're talking about manipulation of stupid people, if you're hoping for a party that doesn't manipulate stupid people I hope you've got a few Saturn Vs lying around, because you're going to need to set up a one-man moon base. There are people on the left that live in such a well-insulated bubble that they think Kos is a legitimate news source, and unionized people that think voting against the Dems is a betrayal of the working class.

The problem with the GOP is (and saying this almost makes me feel like a dick) that they're actually letting said stupid people have a real say in the party platforms instead of paying them lip service and then ignoring them like the Dems do with the conspiracy theorist types and the union loyalists. It seems to actually result in better policy when you use the retarded section of your base for mindless vote-farming than allowing them a real soap-box for their stupid, stupid issues. The GOP is too open and democratic with its own members at the moment.

Though a lot of this has to do with the party chasing out all the people that actually know what they're doing-- academics, professionals, empiricists-- in the interest of "purity". So the religious wingnuts and the media-bubble types are all they have left, whereas the Dems can safely ignore their corresponding groups and still have others available to fill air-time.
 
2012-06-13 03:55:59 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: I devoted substantial amounts of my time, my talent, and my treasure to supporting local candidates running for office and to building the Party organization.

What? Are you a goddam pirate or something? Good grief just say you volunteered and made donations instead of martyring yourself.


Arrrgh, I gave Mitt Romney a gold doubloon, I did!
 
2012-06-13 03:57:59 PM  

HeadLever: Rent Party: And the D's actually do something about it,

Not really. During the budget battles of the 90s, it was typically the Clinton admistration fighting to increase the budget spending, with the Republicans fighting to cut spending. Read up on the Government Shutdowns.


No, really. During the Clinton administration, the size of the federal government shrank every year except the first, which was Bush the Elder's budget. Read up on the National Partnership for Reinventing Government. Gore headed it up.

The shutdown was due to Clinton wanting to cut military and close bases while Gingrich wanted to cut medicare and medicaid. In other words, it was the Democrat exhibiting true fiscal conservatism and the Republican exhibiting grandiose big government American interventionism.
 
2012-06-13 04:01:56 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. -- Barry Goldwater, 1994


in addition:


"A lot of so-called conservatives today don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the religious right. It's not a conservative issue at all."


and

"The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay," he said. "You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."

- Barry Goldwater, 1994
 
2012-06-13 04:02:01 PM  

Weaver95: more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are

disfunctionally insane.

FTFY?
 
2012-06-13 04:05:26 PM  

Rent Party: lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.

Uhh, why don't you just call yourself a Democrat?


I'm trying to recall Democrats in the last few years raising taxes on the rich. Nope. I'm trying to recall Democrats in the last few years improving education. Nope. I'm trying to recall Democrats in the last few years increasing the minimum wage to anything resembling a living wage. Nope. I'm trying to recall a Democrat in the last few years who wanted to significantly reduce the size of the military. Nope. I'm trying to recall a Democrat in the last few years who wanted federal protection of equal rights for gay marriage. I came up with a few but the dude in charge who is still cool with states banning it is blinding me right now. I'm trying to think of some Democrats making the argument if alcohol/tobacco are legal, marijuana should be too. Again, I came up with a few but it was hardly what could be considered a (D) position.

I'm trying to figure out why I don't consider myself a Democrat. I got nothin.
 
2012-06-13 04:05:48 PM  

Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.

I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate. More and more moderates are apparently extremely susceptible to millions of dollars worth of advertising, and perfectly happy to ignore the process altogether or let themselves be swayed by fancy fonts and dramatic voice-overs.

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.


I wish, to the very depths of my soul, that I could scream "You're WRONG!!!" at the top of my lungs - but I, unlike the modern GOP live in the fact-based world.
 
2012-06-13 04:09:05 PM  
Politics aren't about working together to find solutions to problems.
Politics are now sporting events where everyone is out to win no matter the cost.

This will not end well.
 
2012-06-13 04:11:48 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The GOP is too open and democratic with its own members at the moment.

Though a lot of this has to do with the party chasing out all the people that actually know what they're doing-- academics, professionals, empiricists-- in the interest of "purity". So the religious wingnuts and the media-bubble types are all they have left,


I mostly agree, though these two points are not very consistent. In my view, the Republican Establishment (and the Democratic Establishment for that matter) has little clue of what is really important to the working class. They are so far removed from your average American that they can't even speak to them very well. When you live in the flyover states like I do, this point is amplified several times.

The ideals that are embodied in the likes of Joe Bageant are Scott Locklin are almost forign to today's 'Important' Politicians
 
2012-06-13 04:11:49 PM  

Zafler: demaL-demaL-yeH: PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"

1912.

Can you imagine how different things would have been if Theodore had won that election? I wonder how different World War 1 would have turned out otherwise, and how different the political landscape would have been with Roosevelt around for a couple more decades (having not ruined his health with the trip to the Amazon)


I heard Edmund Morris (he of the three-volume biography of TR) speak a couple months ago. He seemed to operate under the idea that if Roosevelt was president when WWI broke out, he would have been able to broker a deal (he won the Nobel Peace Prize for mediating the treaty that ended the Russo-Japanese War).
I believe he also said that had Roosevelt lived, he definitely would have been the Republican standard-bearer in 1920. Now that's an interesting bit of alternative history.
 
2012-06-13 04:27:36 PM  

Rent Party: During the Clinton administration, the size of the federal government shrank every year except the first,


And again, correlation does not equal causation.

The shutdown was due to Clinton wanting to cut military and close bases

Except it wasn't
 
2012-06-13 04:30:46 PM  
 
2012-06-13 04:36:35 PM  
Look at all of you idiots making this guy's point for him.
 
2012-06-13 04:37:30 PM  

HeadLever: Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.

You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?


You are in a desert and are driving a semi full of water. As you drive down the road you see hundreds of people dying of dehydration but you do not want to stop to give anyone a glass of water. You justify your greed because the people shouldn't be in the desert without water and after all you aren't killing them, the sun and heat are. This is the GOP's stance on universal healthcare.

Do they want poor people to die? No that is just hyperbole. Do they have the ability to save their lives? Yes they do. Are their actions immoral? Can they be blamed for the deaths through their apathy?
 
2012-06-13 04:40:59 PM  

Somacandra: PonceAlyosha: Mikey1969: They've gone from a counter-balance to the Left

When did the left EVER need to be counterbalanced? When have we even had a "The Left?"

Late 19th and early 20th century.


I'd say right up until WW2 or so. After that, not so much, what with all the Red Scares.
 
2012-06-13 04:41:45 PM  

Citrate1007: Do they want poor people to die? No that is just hyperbole.


Though I don't agree with your hypothetical being true, this part of your post was my main point.
 
2012-06-13 04:49:30 PM  

HeadLever: Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.

You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?


It's not that Republicans -voters as well as politicians- WANT poor people to die, it's that they don't care if they die.
 
2012-06-13 04:51:08 PM  

burning_bridge: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.

What's changed? A lot! Sure they were always pro-establishment but they still felt a sense of culpability to their electorate. They would support things that their constituents wanted but they might not have been so keen on. Hell, NIXON proposed a true universal healthcare system and a minimum income, things FAR too liberal for Obama to embrace these days.

The Republicans of old weren't just the guys who shouted the loudest, they actually knew how to do their job. The Teatards couldn't even get themselves sworn into office without screwing it up. They knew how to debate, compromise, get things done and keep the lights on. Today the party screams for the death of all civic institutions and has made their time office blatant money grabs for their corporate backers while racking up massive public debt to be pushed onto the rest of us.

It didn't used to be like that.


This is because the R's have nothing to run on. Their economic theories have been well tested now, and they suck ass. Their demographics are drying up, and soon they will be the minority angryoldwhiteracist party. Oh, wait. That's already happened.

So, the only thing they can do to keep winning elections is scare the pants off of anyone who will listen.
 
2012-06-13 04:53:24 PM  

HeadLever: Citrate1007: Do they want poor people to die? No that is just hyperbole.

Though I don't agree with your hypothetical being true, this part of your post was my main point.


Did y'all listen to the debates? In one of the debtes thsi was asked as a rhetorical and THE AUDIENCE responded with YES.

Yes, they are that selfish.
 
2012-06-13 04:59:29 PM  

The Name: HeadLever: Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.

You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?

It's not that Republicans -voters as well as politicians- WANT poor people to die, it's that they don't care if they die.


Really, just because I am a Republican, I don't care if poor people die?

Another fine example of extraordinary liberal thinking. All sorts of gems coming out of the woodworks today.

/here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican
 
2012-06-13 05:00:16 PM  

HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican


Stockholm Syndrome?
 
2012-06-13 05:02:25 PM  

rwhamann: Did y'all listen to the debates?


No, I did not feel like giveing myself a wall-inflicted headache. As much as I am a conservative, I can't stand to watch these folks debate.
 
2012-06-13 05:04:49 PM  

Mercutio74: Stockholm Syndrome?


Nah, more along the lines of this

That and a few Clinton-era environmental policies and groups that really hit home.
 
2012-06-13 05:05:15 PM  

HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican


That's the joke?
 
2012-06-13 05:06:55 PM  

HeadLever: Mercutio74: Stockholm Syndrome?

Nah, more along the lines of this

That and a few Clinton-era environmental policies and groups that really hit home.


I don't have time to read it now, I've got to get out of here... but I skimmed it. Thanks for the link, I'll read it in detail later.
 
2012-06-13 05:12:34 PM  

tcan: 2008-06-18 12:12:31


The prodigal tards are returning.
 
2012-06-13 05:12:34 PM  

Mercutio74: HeadLever: Mercutio74: Stockholm Syndrome?

Nah, more along the lines of this

That and a few Clinton-era environmental policies and groups that really hit home.

I don't have time to read it now, I've got to get out of here... but I skimmed it. Thanks for the link, I'll read it in detail later.


It's basically the old republican "democrats are effite intellectuals who live in big cities and look down on the rest of us" and "republicans leaders may vote against our interest but they have effectively sold themselves as cowboys and rednecks to get those votes"
 
2012-06-13 05:13:59 PM  

HeadLever: Mercutio74: Stockholm Syndrome?

Nah, more along the lines of this

That and a few Clinton-era environmental policies and groups that really hit home.


Takimag? Yeah, nothing like a racist journal for the real-murican.
 
2012-06-13 05:15:11 PM  

Mercutio74: I don't have time to read it now, I've got to get out of here... but I skimmed it. Thanks for the link, I'll read it in detail later.


No problem. Make sure to take the bubble quiz.

shastacola: HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican

That's the joke?


Go read my link above and see if you think it is still a joke.
 
2012-06-13 05:18:04 PM  

BSABSVR: Yeah, nothing like a racist journal for the real-murican.


Lol, per the article:

The left has a sort of collective Tourette syndrome involving frequent mention of sexism, racism, and gay rights. These subjects are meaningless to hourly laborers who lack the leisure time to nurse nihilistic resentments against Western Civilization.

/Thanks for bringing the point home
 
2012-06-13 05:18:46 PM  

HeadLever: Citrate1007: Do they want poor people to die? No that is just hyperbole.

Though I don't agree with your hypothetical being true, this part of your post was my main point.


Granted, my analogy does not compensate for there being any alternate solution. The thing is, the only thing that the GOP has said is REPEAL, REPEAL, REPEAL. I'd be ok with this if they were also proposing something better to replace it with. There are some things that pose concerns in the bill; however, I think the vast majority of it are bipartisan improvements that I think the majority of American's would support. Sadly both sides got butthurt and instead of continuing negotiations about specifics they have taken an all (democrats) or nothing (republicans) approach.

I do think it is a fair question though. If we have the ability to intervene in someones death but choose not to due to apathy and political conflict are we in some part responsible for the death? There are a lot of shades of grey because quite honestly the vast majority of healthcare costs are in the end-of-life care. Sould we help a sick child or single father dying of cancer when they have a high chance of recovery? Of course. What about someone in their 70's that needs a surgury with a 30% chance of sucess where the best case scenerio is that it extends their life for 2-6 months. Is our current capitalistic system the wisest way to make these decisions? Can we trust our political system and the American people to come to a consenus (even if it takes constant refining?).

No one is right or wrong in the debate, but this is how it should be discussed. Sadly the 24/7 news cycle and partisan leaders are making it impossible.

/steps off fark soap box
 
2012-06-13 05:19:15 PM  

shastacola: "democrats are effite intellectuals who live in big cities and look down on the rest of us" and "republicans leaders may vote against our interest but they have effectively sold themselves as cowboys and rednecks to get those votes"


About 2/3rds correct.
 
2012-06-13 05:19:53 PM  

Gyrfalcon: hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.


I had hopes for the Modern Whigs, but the TEA Party nonsense sort of guttered that out thanks to the Fox News sponsorship. Which was sort of the point. Can't have third party that doesn't have sponsorship...
 
2012-06-13 05:25:24 PM  

Gyrfalcon: hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.


"Fiscally conservative" is the problem, far more than any social agenda that rarely makes headway because it's too useful as a wedge issue.
 
2012-06-13 05:29:49 PM  

Citrate1007: The thing is, the only thing that the GOP has said is REPEAL, REPEAL, REPEAL. I'd be ok with this if they were also proposing something better to replace it with. There are some things that pose concerns in the bill; however, I think the vast majority of it are bipartisan improvements that I think the majority of American's would support. Sadly both sides got butthurt and instead of continuing negotiations about specifics they have taken an all (democrats) or nothing (republicans) approach.


The perfect marriage for what we need for social programs would be the financial backing and reach of the goverment with the drive and inginuity of the private sector.

As a conservative, I want to have social programs the help those that really need it. I don't want to see the lazy and bureaucratic processes and inefficiencies that plauge the current programs. I also don't want to see these programs become so large and cumbersome that they help to deteriorate our financial health. There needs to be a balance.
 
2012-06-13 05:35:40 PM  

HeadLever: Citrate1007: The thing is, the only thing that the GOP has said is REPEAL, REPEAL, REPEAL. I'd be ok with this if they were also proposing something better to replace it with. There are some things that pose concerns in the bill; however, I think the vast majority of it are bipartisan improvements that I think the majority of American's would support. Sadly both sides got butthurt and instead of continuing negotiations about specifics they have taken an all (democrats) or nothing (republicans) approach.

The perfect marriage for what we need for social programs would be the financial backing and reach of the goverment with the drive and inginuity of the private sector.

As a conservative, I want to have social programs the help those that really need it. I don't want to see the lazy and bureaucratic processes and inefficiencies that plauge the current programs. I also don't want to see these programs become so large and cumbersome that they help to deteriorate our financial health. There needs to be a balance.


And one of the best ways to ensure the future is education. Which is getting derailed thanks to social Conservatives who don't like education without Jesus and the wealthy and near wealthy who want to gut regular education with a half assed voucher system that will pay for their kids private schools.

It's frustrating.
 
2012-06-13 05:37:22 PM  

HeadLever:
As a conservative, I want to have social programs the help those that really need it. I don't want to see the lazy and bureaucratic processes and inefficiencies that plauge the current programs. I also don't want to see these programs become so large and cumbersome that they help to deteriorate our financial health. There needs to be a balance.


Citations, please?
Difficulty: No DOD, DOE, or farm programs allowed. Nor the Republican kickback to Big Pharma or insurance.
 
2012-06-13 05:37:46 PM  

HeadLever: The Name: HeadLever: Alphax: I see it in Republican legislative actions nearly daily.

You belive that Republicans want poor people to die? Seriously?

It's not that Republicans -voters as well as politicians- WANT poor people to die, it's that they don't care if they die.

Really, just because I am a Republican, I don't care if poor people die?

Another fine example of extraordinary liberal thinking. All sorts of gems coming out of the woodworks today.

/here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican


Perhaps you personally care if poor poeple die, but the GOP establishment clearly does not.

If you know lots of poor republicans then you know lots of stupid people.

Are you poor?
 
2012-06-13 05:41:20 PM  

hubiestubert: Which is getting derailed thanks to social Conservatives who don't like education without Jesus and the wealthy and near wealthy who want to gut regular education with a half assed voucher system that will pay for their kids private schools.


While I may be a conservative, I don't have all that much in common with the Social Conservatives. True, some of our goals may be the same, but the reasoning behind much of it is completlely different.

I agree that education is a huge deal.
 
2012-06-13 05:45:12 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Citations, please?


Medicare fraud would be the posterchild for this. Just look up the 60 Minutes/ABC piece they did on this a few years ago regarding the estimated $60 Billion a year in fraud. Also, do you remember the lottery winner that was still getting welfare payments? Stuff like this.
 
2012-06-13 05:45:22 PM  

HeadLever: As a conservative, I want to have social programs the help those that really need it. I don't want to see the lazy and bureaucratic processes and inefficiencies that plauge the current programs. I also don't want to see these programs become so large and cumbersome that they help to deteriorate our financial health. There needs to be a balance.


Uh, you know, liberals feel pretty much the same way about it. You're not really distinguishing yourself from anyone by saying you want efficiency and financial stability. You Republicans really do think that we revel in the idea of hugely expensive and inefficient programs subsidizing the laziness of able-bodies people, don't you?
 
2012-06-13 05:48:12 PM  

HeadLever: I agree that education is a huge deal.


As long as it's privatized, right?
 
2012-06-13 05:49:57 PM  

jcooli09: If you know lots of poor republicans then you know lots of stupid people.


I think that they would take exception to that comment. However, since you really have no idea of what is important to them or how various policies impact their lives, I can safely say that you do not have a clue to which you speak.
 
2012-06-13 05:51:41 PM  
The only answer the left has to the right's culture war is the question of class. And liberals not only wont mention it, they are activly in favor of class divides. Just between the educated and the uneducated rather than between the rich and poor. It isn't exactly an appealing message.
As long as liberals remain in charge of what 'the left' is the Republicans can go as crazy as they want and still pull in half the vote because there is no one actually capitalize on their nonsense and sink the party.
 
2012-06-13 05:56:18 PM  

The Name: You Republicans really do think that we revel in the idea of hugely expensive and inefficient programs subsidizing the laziness of able-bodies people, don't you?


I don't. Sadly, the two sides are not very far apart on this topic, however, neither side can recognize the other side has a point. Instead we get things like 'Death Panels' and 'they are going to abolish Medicare' type rhetoric. Just another example of the partisan divide keeping things from getting done.
 
2012-06-13 05:57:56 PM  

The Name: As long as it's privatized, right?


Nope, not for me. Public education is a perfect function for state governments. Private education is fine as well for those that choose to go that route.
 
2012-06-13 06:02:21 PM  

HeadLever: demaL-demaL-yeH: Citations, please?

Medicare fraud would be the posterchild for this. Just look up the 60 Minutes/ABC piece they did on this a few years ago regarding the estimated $60 Billion a year in fraud. Also, do you remember the lottery winner that was still getting welfare payments? Stuff like this.


Can you not read English, martherfarker?
Citations, please?
Difficulty: No DOD, DOE, or farm programs allowed. Nor the Republican kickback to Big Pharma or insurance.

Oh, and about that $60 brazillion...
"The USA Today piece with the $60 billion figure cites a speech at a national conference by Holder as its source of the information. In a transcript we found of the speech, however, Holder made it clear he was referring to fraud for the entire health care industry -- not just the Medicare fraud Doherty was talking about.
The NHCAA generally estimates that fraud accounts for 3 percent of all health care spending. So in 2010, when the country spent $2.3 trillion on health care, the cost of fraud was estimated to be $69 billion, according to the association.
"

And wasn't that lottery winner booted off welfare posthaste?
 
2012-06-13 06:07:17 PM  

HeadLever: I don't. Sadly, the two sides are not very far apart on this topic, however, neither side can recognize the other side has a point. Instead we get things like 'Death Panels' and 'they are going to abolish Medicare' type rhetoric. Just another example of the partisan divide keeping things from getting done.


Not to shill too much for my side (alas, both sides do have their problems and their unfortunate similarities), but I do think it's somewhat telling that your example of Republican rhetoric (Death Panels) indeed was absolute BS, while your example of Dem rhetoric (abolishing Medicare) was actually more or less what the Republicans were trying to do.

HeadLever: Nope, not for me. Public education is a perfect function for state governments. Private education is fine as well for those that choose to go that route.


What if a state wants to teach solely creationism and other religious dogma? Is there no place for the fed govt. to come in and say, "No, you can't do that"?
 
2012-06-13 06:18:41 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, and about that $60 brazillion...


Not sure how Medicare Fraud is a Republican kickback to insurance.

In any case, I am not sure that your link is addressing the same estimate. Here is the news piece I was referring to

And wasn't that lottery winner booted off welfare posthaste?

Yep, just as soon as the media got around to running a news story about it. If it takes a news story for someone to get kicked off of goverment benifits, I'll consider that inefficient any day of the week.
 
2012-06-13 06:24:48 PM  

The Name: abolishing Medicare) was actually more or less what the Republicans were trying to do.


Really?

What if a state wants to teach solely creationism and other religious dogma? Is there no place for the fed govt. to come in and say, "No, you can't do that"?

Technially, rights not granted to the Federal Goverment are reserved to the state, however, this hypothetical does have some freedome of religion issues. Rationally, a limited guideline of standards of state education requirements is not a bad thing, IMO.
 
2012-06-13 06:29:35 PM  

HeadLever: Really?


Oh Jesus. You really couldn't have linked to a worse article. You do realize that this little gem of "fact-checking" was a huge public embarrassment for Politifact and pretty much demolished the site's credibility, right?
 
2012-06-13 06:35:41 PM  

bloobeary: Gyrfalcon: The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In other words, The Libertarian Party.

Sounds good to me.


I don't want to have ties to any existing party. I want to be able to counter the Dumb Person's Tea Party with something new, radical, and totally intelligent. If we go Libertarian we'd have to chop out all the Fark Independents, and that will take too much time.
 
2012-06-13 06:37:16 PM  

The Name: You do realize that this little gem of "fact-checking" was a huge public embarrassment for Politifact and pretty much demolished the site's credibility, right?


Just a few links up you have your liberal brethern linking politifact to make one of thier points. So you can only use it when it fits the liberal worldview now, I take it? Sorry, missed that memo.

*Raises Right Hand* I will, from henceforth, refrain from using Politifact when it conveys a conservative POV. I will instead, only use Crooks and Liars, KOS, HuffingtonPost and TMZ for my sources from here on out.
 
2012-06-13 06:37:40 PM  
I'm still a registered republican, but I sure don't vote that way. I mostly keep my affiliation so I can be an election judge.

Very few of there policies socially of financially benefit me now or in the future. Even general ideas like smaller govt. and reduced debt that I am in favor of, the republican policy I just cannot support and is generally wrapped in stupid.
 
2012-06-13 06:47:27 PM  

HeadLever: The Name: You do realize that this little gem of "fact-checking" was a huge public embarrassment for Politifact and pretty much demolished the site's credibility, right?

Just a few links up you have your liberal brethern linking politifact to make one of thier points. So you can only use it when it fits the liberal worldview now, I take it? Sorry, missed that memo.

*Raises Right Hand* I will, from henceforth, refrain from using Politifact when it conveys a conservative POV. I will instead, only use Crooks and Liars, KOS, HuffingtonPost and TMZ for my sources from here on out.


Apparently, despite reading my comment, you weren't paying attention to what I was saying. Now put your thinking cap on and concentrate really, really hard.

Regardless of what other people are doing in this thread, and whatever other good or bad fact-checking Politifact has done, that PARTICULAR story, the one about Medicare that you linked to, was a huge embarrassment for Politifact. I am not saying that Politifact did a bad job on a story about something else and is therefore not to be trusted when it discusses Medicare. Its story about Medicare, making the exact same incorrect point that you were making earlier, was so wrong it was mercilessly lambasted all over the internet for weeks after it came out.

Is that clear now? Do you understand? Or do you need one of your inbred hick friends to help you figure it out?
 
2012-06-13 06:49:46 PM  
This guy's story is remarkably similar to mine, and that of much of my family. The GOP has driven more moderates out of the party than most people would imagine, I think.
 
2012-06-13 06:50:14 PM  

The Name: HeadLever: ....Is that clear now? Do you understand? Or do you need one of your inbred hick friends to help you figure it out?


I'll take b). Let's see if I'm correct.
 
2012-06-13 06:51:25 PM  

whatsupchuck: This guy's story is remarkably similar to mine, and that of much of my family. The GOP has driven more moderates out of the party than most people would imagine, I think.


We can only hope. But then, remember, there's still the South, and flyover country.
 
2012-06-13 06:53:55 PM  
FTA: "Ultimately, leaving the GOP was necessary in order to maintain my own integrity."

Heh. Heh heh.
 
2012-06-13 07:07:31 PM  

Cyclometh: Look at all of you idiots making this guy's point for him.


This

The comments on the article are equally ironic

Author: I'm leaving the party, you guys are too farking derp crazy.

Comments: CRAZY DERP!!!!!!
 
2012-06-13 07:17:04 PM  

Flying Code Monkey:
That would be part of the problem, right there. Political affiliation should not be part of one's identity.


Man are you ever in the wrong place.
 
2012-06-13 07:36:21 PM  
this article is a complete hose job.

Obama is an Anti-Capitalism Socialist.

This is seen in his own writings. There's no secret here.

He was born to an US citizen and foreigner who lived in Kenya. His mother spent alot of time overseas. Hence, the question of his birth certificate, which he refused to produce. His social security number changed. why?

None of the other candidates had this baggage. None of the other candidates had aunts living as illegals. None of the other candidates were friends with convicted terrorists. None of the other candidates were elected by slinging mud at their opponents.

There is a lot of room in this guys resume to ask questions.

All I'm saying is, if you are a socialist, then stand up and be a socialist. I'm a free market capitalist. I'm not ashamed.
 
2012-06-13 07:40:32 PM  
Wow this really hit nerve for the "Fark independents". Oddly they don't have much sympathy for an actual independent.
 
2012-06-13 07:43:31 PM  

thrgd456: this article is a complete hose job.

Obama is an Anti-Capitalism Socialist.

This is seen in his own writings. There's no secret here.

He was born to an US citizen and foreigner who lived in Kenya. His mother spent alot of time overseas. Hence, the question of his birth certificate, which he refused to produce. His social security number changed. why?

None of the other candidates had this baggage. None of the other candidates had aunts living as illegals. None of the other candidates were friends with convicted terrorists. None of the other candidates were elected by slinging mud at their opponents.

There is a lot of room in this guys resume to ask questions.

All I'm saying is, if you are a socialist, then stand up and be a socialist. I'm a free market capitalist. I'm not ashamed.


If that were actually true you god-damn well SHOULD be ashamed

"Free market Capitalism" is executing people because they are a match for someone who si willing to pay you $10k for thier organs

"Free market Capitalism" is 8 year old children sold into slavery in India and China and put to work in factories
"Free market Capitalism" is 10,000 dead in Bhopal India, and their families bought off for about $100 ea
"Free market Capitalism" is what Upton Sinclair accurately described in "the Jungle"
"Free market Capitalism" was the Justices of the Supreme Court striking down minimum wage and anti-child labor laws because they interfered with those children's rights to "Free contract for thier services at whatever bargain they are able to strike"
"Free market Capitalism" was paying workers in company scrip and jacking up prices at the comapny store so they could never get out of debt
"Free market Capitalism" is a lot of my ancestors dead and buried in mines, by the sides of railroads, and canals because it was cheaper to work new immigrants to death in dangerous conditions than it was to risk slaves doing those jobs
 
2012-06-13 07:43:34 PM  

TheBigJerk: Gyrfalcon: hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.

"Fiscally conservative" is the problem, far more than any social agenda that rarely makes headway because it's too useful as a wedge issue.


But looking at Gary Johnson's record in New Mexico, it looks like he can make an actual case of being a "fiscal conservative." Republicans these days just talk about it and then rack up massive deficits.

Right now, he's got my vote unless things are really coming down to the wire in Ohio, in which case I'll need to do what I need to do to try to keep RMoney out of the White House.
 
2012-06-13 07:46:39 PM  

Bag of Hammers: Cyclometh: Look at all of you idiots making this guy's point for him.

This

The comments on the article are equally ironic

Author: I'm leaving the party, you guys are too farking derp crazy.

Comments: CRAZY DERP!!!!!!


Aw, who needs you. I'm going to go make my own Republican Party, only it's going to have hookers and blackjack! And, well, forget the Republican Party.
 
2012-06-13 07:48:38 PM  

thrgd456: this article is a complete hose job.



No, this is a hoe's job...

www.legaljuice.com
 
2012-06-13 07:50:33 PM  

Corvus: Wow this really hit nerve for the "Fark independents". Oddly they don't have much sympathy for an actual independent.


not pure enough.purity is essential.
 
2012-06-13 07:50:56 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years.


It is never going to happen with our current system of nomination and voting. Not a lot of people are willing to take a chance with the independent dude since it might be "throwing your vote away". Also, ideological similar candidates tend to split the vote, so people tend to get pissed with moderates that run.

You're not going to see real reform in this country until the primaries are eliminated and a voting system such as this is implemented.
 
2012-06-13 07:53:12 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, and about that $60 brazillion...


Judging by the recent audit of just the Medicare prescription drug program that put the dodgy-payments number in the 10% range ($56.9b spent, $5.6b in questionable payments), that $60 billion estimate, seeing as it's in the neighborhood of 10% of the Medicare budget, may well be close to the mark.

There's no solid figure for all of because there's never been an audit done on all of Medicare, and the audit has never been done because ain't nobody in Washington wants that blowing up on their watch - they don't want revelations on how many of their contributors have been gaming the system through upcoding and so forth, and they really don't want that level of confirmation of just how easy it is to steal from Medicare.

Supposedly the administration is (finally) ordering a crackdown on the most obvious problem with the system...but shortly after that announcement they backtracked after providers pissed and moaned about the new anti-fraud efforts...which strikes me as shortsighted because hell, these guys bought themselves plenty of congressmen fair and square, so aren't they savvy enough to game the system for themselves without letting the Ukrainian mob in on the action?
 
2012-06-13 07:54:49 PM  
img7.imageshack.us
 
2012-06-13 07:56:49 PM  

Dinjiin: Also, ideological similar candidates tend to split the vote, so people tend to get pissed with moderates that run.


I can't see how a candidate like Johnson who wants to cut government spending by 43% could be described as moderate. He's not similar to Obama or Romney, and he's not a tiresome scold like Nader or Buchanan.
 
2012-06-13 07:58:25 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Republicans Politicians in this day and age don't care much about anything other than party loyalty.

They don't want thought or debate -they want people with money and nodding heads.


FTFY. The democrats are the same, party loyalty is everything to both sides. Vote third party.
 
2012-06-13 08:02:50 PM  

Gulper Eel: Dinjiin: Also, ideological similar candidates tend to split the vote, so people tend to get pissed with moderates that run.

I can't see how a candidate like Johnson who wants to cut government spending by 43% could be described as moderate. He's not similar to Obama or Romney, and he's not a tiresome scold like Nader or Buchanan.


Exactly how are you going to cut 43% of federal spending? Help me out here. That's ridiculous. Seriously. And what are the suddenly-out-of-work soldiers going to do, because no way do you get 43% cuts without cutting or military in half easy. Gonna cut off all social security and medicare?"Gonna do it in a year? 2? 3? Gonna get congress to agree to it? That's gibberish, man.
 
2012-06-13 08:07:31 PM  

Dog Welder: Bag of Hammers: Cyclometh: Look at all of you idiots making this guy's point for him.

This

The comments on the article are equally ironic

Author: I'm leaving the party, you guys are too farking derp crazy.

Comments: CRAZY DERP!!!!!!

Aw, who needs you. I'm going to go make my own Republican Party, only it's going to have hookers and blackjack! And, well, forget the Republican Party.


Toss in pole dancing or women's beach volleyball and I'm in.
 
2012-06-13 08:11:02 PM  

thrgd456: this article is a complete hose job.

Obama is an Anti-Capitalism Socialist.

This is seen in his own writings. There's no secret here.


No, you would be trolling.

Or, you buy the GOP propaganda completely.

Either way, Obama is quite the opposite of anti-capitalistic.
 
2012-06-13 08:19:22 PM  

born_yesterday: Yeah...most of the people I know that are openly proud about being Republican are also open about doing it to piss off minorities or libtards.


THIS! Motherfuggin' THIS!

My dear brother has openly admitted to me that he votes Republican because he "hates liberals". Funny thing is, he & I both want the same things in life. We don't like the idea of corporations running our government, we don't like out of control "defense spending". We're both in favor of our LGBT brothers and sisters having equal rights under the law. We both agree that tax loopholes for the rich should be done away with. What's the goddamned difference? I asked him, and he just hates the "liberals". He's always been somewhat of a contrarian, so if he can do something just to piss off people, he'll do it. Why? Because fark you, that's why.

Oh, he's also a member of a public union, who thinks that Scott Walker & John Kasich are great guys for trying to eradicate unions. Man, I love the guy, but I'll never understand his willingness to shout "NO!" when "no" means that his family might suffer. He's been recently diagnosed with cancer, and MY tax dollars are paying for his awesome insurance coverage. I don't mind that, but if HIS tax dollars were being used to pay for someone else, he'd scream bloody murder.

/end rant, I guess.
//I just don't get some people. Not even people who I love.
 
2012-06-13 08:21:57 PM  

Dinjiin: Gyrfalcon: Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years.

It is never going to happen with our current system of nomination and voting. Not a lot of people are willing to take a chance with the independent dude since it might be "throwing your vote away". Also, ideological similar candidates tend to split the vote, so people tend to get pissed with moderates that run.

You're not going to see real reform in this country until the primaries are eliminated and a voting system such as this is implemented.


I'm thinking of reform from within. Create the Smart People's Party, align ourselves with the Libertarians but continually decry them for being too unAmerican or whatever we decide, and then slowly rot them out from inside.

Kind of like what the Teahadists did with the GOP, only for Smart People who love America.
 
2012-06-13 08:22:59 PM  

Dog Welder: TheBigJerk: Gyrfalcon: hubiestubert: Gulper Eel: Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.

Gary Johnson. That is all.

I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

Now's a good time to start that Third Party everyone's been blathering about for the last 40 years. The Smart People's Party: socially liberal, fiscally conservative, personally responsible, responsive government.

In times past, you'd never have had a chance; but I think now's the time to make a complete break from the GOP while remaining true to your roots.

"Fiscally conservative" is the problem, far more than any social agenda that rarely makes headway because it's too useful as a wedge issue.

But looking at Gary Johnson's record in New Mexico, it looks like he can make an actual case of being a "fiscal conservative." Republicans these days just talk about it and then rack up massive deficits.

Right now, he's got my vote unless things are really coming down to the wire in Ohio, in which case I'll need to do what I need to do to try to keep RMoney out of the White House.


I'll tell you what to be on the safe side you just vote for Obama in Ohio and I will vote Gary Johnson here in Utah for you. Deal?
 
2012-06-13 08:24:19 PM  

HeadLever: BSABSVR: Yeah, nothing like a racist journal for the real-murican.

Lol, per the article:

The left has a sort of collective Tourette syndrome involving frequent mention of sexism, racism, and gay rights. These subjects are meaningless to hourly laborers who lack the leisure time to nurse nihilistic resentments against Western Civilization.

/Thanks for bringing the point home


Is or is not takimag a vanity publication most famous for posting racist articles, most famously John Derbyshire's?

Please explain what role or affiliation I have with the left. Feel free to cite something you didn't pull out of your pathetic little ass.

At your dipshiatty leisure.
 
2012-06-13 08:27:59 PM  
So another stupid republican finally figures out that the party is batshiat insane. Took him long enough.
 
2012-06-13 08:28:50 PM  

ghare: Exactly how are you going to cut 43% of federal spending?


You'd have to institute MASSIVE cuts to the military. Cut all foreign aid. Cut all aid to the states regarding local issues (police, fire, hospitals, schools, non-interstate transportation, HUD). Reign in the TSA.

Long term, programs like Medicare and Medicaid need to transition to government owned and operated clinics. Third party facilities have a conflict of interest regarding cost control. The Interstate Highway and Freeway Systems need to be taken back from the states and made self-sufficient via use fees and fuel taxes (and not via the general fund).

None of that will happen. The large aerospace and defense companies have purposely spread their operations across many states so that representatives are hesitant to cut their own golden geese. States have come to rely too heavily on federal aid to run their own daily operations. Can't cut the TSA because the darkies are out to get us. Can't have small government health clinics because OMG that's socialism (but don't you dare let the government take away my Medicare). Can't raise the gas tax because people like their subsidized gas. Per mile taxing is bad because the government can read your thoughts with their GPS trackers.

Did I miss anything?
 
2012-06-13 08:34:06 PM  
Rabies doesn't even begin to cover it. If you want some LOLs, check out this nest of Teabaggers screeching and yammering about how Obama "isn't cool." He's not cool, people! HE'S NOT COOL!

Link
 
2012-06-13 08:38:18 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I'm thinking of reform from within. Create the Smart People's Party, align ourselves with the Libertarians


Have you been to a Libertarian political party? I'm a centralist with libertarian leanings... and those people scare the bejeezus out of me. Never in my life have I met a more heavily armed group of self-centered anti-authoritarian people. The common theme was, "I got mine, so fark ya'll, and I'll shoot you dead if you try and take it from me".

So no, you don't want to align yourself with a fringe group.
 
2012-06-13 08:52:20 PM  

ghare: Exactly how are you going to cut 43% of federal spending? Help me out here. That's ridiculous. Seriously. And what are the suddenly-out-of-work soldiers going to do, because no way do you get 43% cuts without cutting or military in half easy. Gonna cut off all social security and medicare?"Gonna do it in a year? 2? 3? Gonna get congress to agree to it? That's gibberish, man.


"Hope" and "change" are looking like a load of gibberish as well. Expensive gibberish, too.

Defense-wise, a 43% cut knocks them down to the pre-Iraq level of spending (Liberals: cue your imokaywiththis.jpg). Otherwise he's light on specifics, but that's par for the course for presidential candidates - the point is that if voters ever arrived at a point where they like what Johnson is selling, then what looks like gibberish now will look like a necessity.

He's a lousy public speaker, though. And sucks on TV. And that's what really matters, you know.
 
2012-06-13 08:54:56 PM  
Republican Refugee thread?

*finally updated my voter registration this past year. When I updated my license, I decided having a vote in the primary isn't enough any more, it's time to let the party destroy themselves cause I sure as hell can't save the party*

On the downside now its just kind of wandering in the political wilderness as the republican party is going to make it even toxic to muse about leaning rightward politically for the next 20 years.
 
CDP [TotalFark]
2012-06-13 08:57:20 PM  
I am not a member of any political party; I am a political conservative.

As a Conservative and a Tea Party Patriot I support candidates whom I feel will best honor their oath to the Constitution.

There is no sure way to know the extent Romney will honor his oath to the Constitution. However, Obama has demonstrated in words and deeds that he does not honor his oath to the Constitution. Obama treats the Constitution as an obstacle to his socialist agenda for America.

The people who voted for Obama to prove they were not racist will vote for Romney to prove they are not stupid.

i132.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-13 08:58:46 PM  

Bag of Hammers: Cyclometh: Look at all of you idiots making this guy's point for him.

This

The comments on the article are equally ironic

Author: I'm leaving the party, you guys are too farking derp crazy.

Comments: CRAZY DERP!!!!!!


I "like" these gems in particular...

I'll never vote for a (D) ever, and the (R) had better be Tea Party.

The Earth was 7 degrees hotter when King Henry VIII was in power, so I guess they must have been driving alot of SUV's on those days.



I don't agree with everything either party does, but the insanity that keeps coming from the "All Star" Tea Party in several states is actually frightening me.
 
2012-06-13 09:02:15 PM  

Elandriel: Weaver95: hubiestubert:
I fought long and hard, but the party doesn't want sanity. There is a certain time to cut bait, and I probably should have left during the last election...

more and more moderates are waking up and realizing that the GOP is run by people who are functionally insane. in the end, the only ones left will be the whack jobs and slack jawed idiots and good luck staying a viable party with a base of nutballs like that.

I hope Wisconsin was an anomaly, otherwise your statement isn't as accurate. More and more moderates are apparently extremely susceptible to millions of dollars worth of advertising, and perfectly happy to ignore the process altogether or let themselves be swayed by fancy fonts and dramatic voice-overs.

I'm starting to think the media itself leads the country, and the GOP pander to what sells on the airwaves rather than some brazen overarching conspiratorial end-game. No news outlet is willing to take Romney to task because his idiocy sells. Every news company is happy to rake Obama over the coals...because it sells. It's extremely disheartening.


Re: the effectiveness of advertising... it works well enough to command trillions of dollars in resources. Advertising is just another word for propaganda, and a lot of people have spent horrific amounts of time and money learning how to manipulate individual decisionmaking.

This, incidentally, is why media literacy classes simply don't exist as they should in secondary school (maybe even primary school) - it would put a lot of liars and sociopaths out of business.
 
2012-06-13 09:06:09 PM  

HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican



That's because you're so stupid you vote against your own self interests.
 
2012-06-13 09:07:19 PM  

intelligent comment below: HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican


That's because you're so stupid you vote against your own self interests.


You're so stupid you think that's a good pitch.
 
2012-06-13 09:19:26 PM  

Ned Stark: intelligent comment below: HeadLever: /here is a hint - most of the folks that I know are considered 'poor'.
//Most of them also vote Republican


That's because you're so stupid you vote against your own self interests.

You're so stupid you think that's a good pitch.



We're well beyond pitch now. In 1860 the ruling class in the South convinced all the idiots who didn't own slaves to go die in the bloodiest war ever for their benefit. There's no hope for society, especially when education spending and teachers are the #1 target of Republicans.
 
2012-06-13 09:19:45 PM  

CDP: I am not a member of any political party; I am a political conservative.

As a Conservative and a Tea Party Patriot I support candidates whom I feel will best honor their oath to the Constitution.

There is no sure way to know the extent Romney will honor his oath to the Constitution. However, Obama has demonstrated in words and deeds that he does not honor his oath to the Constitution. Obama treats the Constitution as an obstacle to his socialist agenda for America.

The people who voted for Obama to prove they were not racist will vote for Romney to prove they are not stupid.


29.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-06-13 09:23:38 PM  

thrgd456: this article is a complete hose job.

Obama is an Anti-Capitalism Socialist.

This is seen in his own writings. There's no secret here.

He was born to an US citizen and foreigner who lived in Kenya. His mother spent alot of time overseas. Hence, the question of his birth certificate, which he refused to produce. His social security number changed. why?

None of the other candidates had this baggage. None of the other candidates had aunts living as illegals. None of the other candidates were friends with convicted terrorists. None of the other candidates were elected by slinging mud at their opponents.

There is a lot of room in this guys resume to ask questions.

All I'm saying is, if you are a socialist, then stand up and be a socialist. I'm a free market capitalist. I'm not ashamed.



Needs more sparkling eagles, CDP can teach you a few things.
 
2012-06-13 09:35:28 PM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much.



REALLY? They used to compromise so both sides could work together to solve the nation's problems. That's gone now. That's the biggest change, and it will doom this country if it continues.

They also have their own propaganda network now, in the form of Fox News, which is run by a man who built his entire career out of running propaganda for the Republican Party. America has their first news network where a political party insider is literally running the channel and dictating what stories are reported and how. The GOP has their very own State-controlled television network, and that's not even hyperbole.

And then, of course, there's the total takeover of the party by religious fundamentalists, who were once on the outskirts of the party, but now form its very foundation. These people want to force their religious beliefs onto every single American, and they have the power of a major political party with which to do it now.

Those are HUGE changes from the Republican Party that gave us people like Reagan.
 
2012-06-13 09:39:26 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: REALLY? They used to compromise so both sides could work together to solve the nation's problems. That's gone now. That's the biggest change, and it will doom this country if it continues.



Sort of. In the 90's they spent their days going after Clinton's sexual escapades and shut down government to try and get what they want. The Republican party after 1991 is the same as today.
 
2012-06-13 09:41:28 PM  
I get the feeling that the author is backing away from the party simply because it's impossible to defend. Good for the guy for realizing the Republican party is full of easily-brainwashed freaks...but then again, it's easy to walk away from a situation that he had a hand in creating.

Who is really responsible for creating the Republican Party as it stands today? It's people like this who put party over everything else and now expect some congratulations when they started doing the right thing when it became impossible to defend the useful idiots any longer. Nothing about the poisonous ideology that fueled the Republican Party to keep cutting government at the expense of bigger stock gains, nothing about the rotting of American infrastructure so some rich people would earn some more money they will never, ever spend, and nothing about the cruel way affordable health care and upward mobility were shoveled aside because...hey, fark you, got mine.

We know Republicans like this are not without shame as they are running away from the embarrassing party with all speed. But it's the same sort of Fark Independent who bashes the embarrassing party but simply won't change their views: it's all bullshiat so they can wait until the Jesus Freaks are gone so they can go back to being total jackasses without having to deal with the embarrassment.

One of the most annoying things Republicans do is dodge responsibility when they can't shout down opposition. All this grandstanding about the party 'leaving them' comes off as no different.
 
2012-06-13 09:46:22 PM  

intelligent comment below: The Republican party after 1991 is the same as today.



Except that today a healthcare plan that the Republicans proposed in the 1990's is now considered socialism and a violation of the constitution.
 
2012-06-13 10:01:34 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: intelligent comment below: The Republican party after 1991 is the same as today.


Except that today a healthcare plan that the Republicans proposed in the 1990's is now considered socialism and a violation of the constitution.



But they never actually would implement it. That was just their alternative to the Clinton plan, pretending to show their supporters they were reasonable people.
 
2012-06-13 10:04:27 PM  
The more you tighten your grip, the more voters will slip through your fingers.

But then, since when do voters matter?
 
2012-06-13 10:05:08 PM  

Gulper Eel: demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, and about that $60 brazillion...

Judging by the recent audit of just the Medicare prescription drug program that put the dodgy-payments number in the 10% range ($56.9b spent, $5.6b in questionable payments), that $60 billion estimate, seeing as it's in the neighborhood of 10% of the Medicare budget, may well be close to the mark.

There's no solid figure for all of because there's never been an audit done on all of Medicare, and the audit has never been done because ain't nobody in Washington wants that blowing up on their watch - they don't want revelations on how many of their contributors have been gaming the system through upcoding and so forth, and they really don't want that level of confirmation of just how easy it is to steal from Medicare.

Supposedly the administration is (finally) ordering a crackdown on the most obvious problem with the system...but shortly after that announcement they backtracked after providers pissed and moaned about the new anti-fraud efforts...which strikes me as shortsighted because hell, these guys bought themselves plenty of congressmen fair and square, so aren't they savvy enough to game the system for themselves without letting the Ukrainian mob in on the action?


I see you have a literacy problem.
Here's what I wrote. Twice.

Citations, please?
Difficulty: No DOD, DOE, or farm programs allowed. Nor the Republican kickback to Big Pharma or insurance.

/Third time should be clear, right?
//Right?
///Because the (R)s are talking about ending "waste" like food stamps, school lunch programs, early childhood development, mental health, unemployment insurance benefits, student loan subsidies for the bootstrappy, drug treatment programs, and health care for impoverished children.
 
2012-06-14 12:46:29 AM  
FTFA: As Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ornstein have written, "the Republican Party, has become an insurgent outlier-ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence, and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

Insurgents in Afghanistan are terrorists. Insurgents in the US are Republicans.
 
2012-06-14 12:48:18 AM  

lennavan: Perhaps, one day, a reformed and responsible Republican Party will reemerge.

I've actually daydreamed about leading the reemergence of a reformed responsible Republican party myself. Using the banner of smaller government, family values and Christianity I could definitely lead this country to a better place.

Smaller Gov't
Significantly reduce the size of the military
Get government out from between two consenting adults wanting to marry.
Get government out from between a woman and her doctor.
Legalize marijuana, no need for government to regulate something that's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

Family Values/Christianity
Letting old people die in poverty is bad - Social Security.
Education is critical - improve schools.
Easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven - significantly higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes on middle class.
Significantly increase minimum wage to a living wage.

The list goes on. I'd love a party that acts the way Republicans talk. But the way the (R)'s talk versus the way they act, it's like polar opposites.


"Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission ... The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition ... [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world ... cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed."
- Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, 1965.
 
2012-06-14 01:19:05 AM  

scavenger: RINO RINO RINO RINO RINO RINO


Badger badger badger badger badger badger!
 
2012-06-14 01:29:23 AM  

Dinjiin: Gyrfalcon: I'm thinking of reform from within. Create the Smart People's Party, align ourselves with the Libertarians

Have you been to a Libertarian political party? I'm a centralist with libertarian leanings... and those people scare the bejeezus out of me. Never in my life have I met a more heavily armed group of self-centered anti-authoritarian people. The common theme was, "I got mine, so fark ya'll, and I'll shoot you dead if you try and take it from me".

So no, you don't want to align yourself with a fringe group.


But I'm trying to create a third party, so I don't want to take over the Democrats, who also need it. I need an existing party large enough to have some clout but small enough that a massive influx of Smart People's Partiers can completely take charge.
 
2012-06-14 01:43:33 AM  
My first political act was passionately lobbying my fourth-grade classmates to vote for Reagan over Walter Mondale in a mock election in 1984.

Your first political act was rooting for a traitor. Well, good luck then.
 
2012-06-14 02:13:24 AM  
You guys know if people left BOTH parties in droves, they might, just might sit up and take notice. It would take a bit, but they would eventually.
 
2012-06-14 02:46:23 AM  

Cythraul: Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


You can always tell when someone didn't read the article when they impose their own bias on it.
 
2012-06-14 02:52:10 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: You guys know if people left BOTH parties in droves, they might, just might sit up and take notice. It would take a bit, but they would eventually.



Uh huh. Both parties are running scared that you get 30% turnout for midterms and 50% for Presidential elections. You keep showin' 'em!
 
2012-06-14 02:53:55 AM  

CDP: I am not a member of any political party; I am a political conservative.


You do a pretty good impression.
 
2012-06-14 03:37:04 AM  
thrgd456 2012-06-13 07:36:21 PM


(farky'd as: Thread shiatter 4796366)


Kittens watch these kinda things. And they never EVER forget.
 
2012-06-14 04:51:00 AM  

Gyrfalcon: But I'm trying to create a third party, so I don't want to take over the Democrats, who also need it. I need an existing party large enough to have some clout but small enough that a massive influx of Smart People's Partiers can completely take charge.


Chiropractors.

Seriously.

They're nothing but a bunch of fakes, but they have solidarity and a press machine like few others.
 
2012-06-14 05:49:52 AM  

HeadLever: Mercutio74: Stockholm Syndrome?

Nah, more along the lines of this

That and a few Clinton-era environmental policies and groups that really hit home.


Just in case anyone has an idea to check out this article, let me know how it comes out. I stopped after "I score a 63 in Charles Murray's "bubble quiz,"
 
2012-06-14 05:57:14 AM  

Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much. To quote my father, they've always been "screw the poor, more for the rich." Maybe the most significant change, if any, over the past couple of decades is their adoption of the Christian Right.


No. They've been coo-coo for Jesus Puffs since 1979. That's how they got Reagan in the White House in '81.
 
2012-06-14 05:57:51 AM  

HeadLever: demaL-demaL-yeH: Citations, please?

Medicare fraud would be the posterchild for this. Just look up the 60 Minutes/ABC piece they did on this a few years ago regarding the estimated $60 Billion a year in fraud. Also, do you remember the lottery winner that was still getting welfare payments? Stuff like this.


Who is defrauding Medicare? Private business, that's who.
There will always be fraud and corruption in any organization. I would guess that government is not more, not less corrupt than any other large organization.
 
2012-06-14 05:59:33 AM  

Ricardo Klement: It's sad to see so many hinged Republicans leaving the Party. I'm not ready to do that - not because I am more tolerant, but because I'm going to go down fighting.

Maybe that will leave me an embittered shell of a man, but fark them. I'm not making it easy for the idiots.


You know, the gop was made up from what was left of the Whigs. I think it's time to cast off the crazies and reform into a new party again.
 
2012-06-14 06:49:46 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Smart People's Partiers


Lordy, no. Washington is scalp-deep in Smart People already. Just ask them and they'll tell you at great length.
 
2012-06-14 07:00:49 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much.


REALLY? They used to compromise so both sides could work together to solve the nation's problems. That's gone now. That's the biggest change, and it will doom this country if it continues.

They also have their own propaganda network now, in the form of Fox News, which is run by a man who built his entire career out of running propaganda for the Republican Party. America has their first news network where a political party insider is literally running the channel and dictating what stories are reported and how. The GOP has their very own State-controlled television network, and that's not even hyperbole.

And then, of course, there's the total takeover of the party by religious fundamentalists, who were once on the outskirts of the party, but now form its very foundation. These people want to force their religious beliefs onto every single American, and they have the power of a major political party with which to do it now.

Those are HUGE changes from the Republican Party that gave us people like Reagan.


And as I said earlier, in today's GOP, Reagan would have been labeled as a RINO and driven out of the party with torches and pitchforks.

Barry Goldwater's words regarding the religious right were rather prophetic.
 
2012-06-14 07:23:03 AM  

Dog Welder: shower_in_my_socks: Cythraul: I don't see how the Republican party has changed that much.


REALLY? They used to compromise so both sides could work together to solve the nation's problems. That's gone now. That's the biggest change, and it will doom this country if it continues.

They also have their own propaganda network now, in the form of Fox News, which is run by a man who built his entire career out of running propaganda for the Republican Party. America has their first news network where a political party insider is literally running the channel and dictating what stories are reported and how. The GOP has their very own State-controlled television network, and that's not even hyperbole.

And then, of course, there's the total takeover of the party by religious fundamentalists, who were once on the outskirts of the party, but now form its very foundation. These people want to force their religious beliefs onto every single American, and they have the power of a major political party with which to do it now.

Those are HUGE changes from the Republican Party that gave us people like Reagan.

And as I said earlier, in today's GOP, Reagan would have been labeled as a RINO and driven out of the party with torches and pitchforks.

Barry Goldwater's words regarding the religious right were rather prophetic.


Which was probably why he was crushed by Johnson in '64
 
2012-06-14 07:25:31 AM  

Job Creator: ... I would guess that government is not more, not less corrupt than any other large organization.


Mebbe y'all oughta try reasoning insteada guessin?
 
2012-06-14 07:25:43 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: We know Republicans like this are not without shame as they are running away from the embarrassing party with all speed. But it's the same sort of Fark Independent who bashes the embarrassing party but simply won't change their views: it's all bullshiat so they can wait until the Jesus Freaks are gone so they can go back to being total jackasses without having to deal with the embarrassment.


Or they can do what a lot of Fark Independents did and simply turn into Paultards, so they can champion the same asshole-ish, "fark you I got mine" views while simultaneously claiming not to be "partisan".
 
2012-06-14 07:30:25 AM  
FTFA

In Republican proposals, the wealthy win, and the rest of us lose- one only has to look at Rep. Paul Ryan's budget to see that.

which is followed by...

But my mind conjured innumerable reasons for delay- for putting off the day of reckoning in the desperate hope that some game-changing miracle would occur, such as a victory by Governor Jon Huntsman in the Republican presidential primary.


Even in their mea culpas, can Republicans not be disingenuous and/or misinformed? I mean, he does realize Jon Huntsman has a raging hard-on for the Ryan budget, right? He wholeheartedly endorsed it.
 
2012-06-14 07:56:01 AM  

Job Creator: Who is defrauding Medicare? Private business, that's who.
There will always be fraud and corruption in any organization. I would guess that government is not more, not less corrupt than any other large organization.


There is plenty of upcoding fraud going on among "legitimate" providers, but a huge number of the so-called private businesses committing fraud are simply phony companies set up to steal from the system - on paper it says they're a private business but they're just an empty storefront with somebody showing up once in a while to pick up the mail.

Here's a taste of how it works:

There was no inventory or pharmacist. There were no customers. "The walls were bare," Hill says. As soon as the agents took a look at the interior, they called the U.S. Attorney's Office to ask prosecutor H. Ron Davidson to help issue a search warrant. An hour and a half later, warrant in hand, the agents returned to Elbia's to conduct a search. But there was nothing to find.

There is health-care fraud all over the country, to be sure, but in the region of South Florida comprising Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties, it is in an advanced state. Here, it is fueled by large populations of the elderly, who are enrolled in Medicare; and by poor immigrants, who because of economic desperation or language barriers can be easily manipulated by criminals. This area has the densest concentration of Medicare providers in the country, with one for every 500 Medicare beneficiaries. In contrast, the rest of the country averages about one provider for every 3,000 beneficiaries. To judge by the medical data, you would think South Florida was made up entirely of the sick, the limbless, the crazy. And in this sense, South Florida is both an illustration of the Medicare fraud problem and its bellwether. If the fraud here can't be contained, it does not bode well for the rest of the country.

Over the past decade, individual criminal rings in South Florida have netted hundreds of millions of dollars at a time. This is drug-cartel level profit, but without the gunfights. And it has spawned a supporting economy to service it. There is a brisk trade in stolen patient and doctor IDs. Shady car dealerships and check-cashing stores provide fronts for money laundering. Disreputable lawyers reportedly hold seminars on how to set up shop and bill the government. One former prosecutor I talked with speculated that Miami's economy would grind to a halt if all Medicare fraud stopped overnight. In certain parts of town, it is easy to find low-rent office complexes packed with doctors' offices, therapy clinics, and medical-supply stores all closed in the middle of the day. Many of the ones that are open have the exact same sign posted by the door: please be advised that this office will not allow unannounced visits by insurance company investigators.


The best part is one line at the end.

Postscript: Milian was sentenced to 33 months in prison and ordered to pay back $70 for the Elbia's Pharmacy fraud.

Yeah, that's showing 'em we take the issue seriously. Seventy bucks.

Anyway, various estimates of the private-sector insurance fraud rate put it in the
 
2012-06-14 08:08:00 AM  
The republicans ruin this country and then blame others for not fixing it fast enough. Then they hand things over to people with already too much. At least this guy sounds like a good american, rather than what his screw ball, two faced, treasonous just say no to everything party sounds. They need more guys like him to take that party back.

I was never a huge Regan fan, but I think he even would be disgusted by what his party has become.
 
2012-06-14 08:15:30 AM  
That end bit should read 1-7% for the private sector and 10+% for Medicare, both figures estimated.

Which stands to reason - one system is biased in favor of denying claims even if legitimate, and the other is biased in favor of paying claims even if obviously fraudulent like 991 dental procedures in one day.

The thing is, you can fix a wrongly-denied claim simply by paying it - but for a wrongly paid claim? That monkey is GONE save for a few pennies.


Which go right back into the system to be stolen again.
 
2012-06-14 09:28:06 AM  

HeadLever: Citrate1007: The thing is, the only thing that the GOP has said is REPEAL, REPEAL, REPEAL. I'd be ok with this if they were also proposing something better to replace it with. There are some things that pose concerns in the bill; however, I think the vast majority of it are bipartisan improvements that I think the majority of American's would support. Sadly both sides got butthurt and instead of continuing negotiations about specifics they have taken an all (democrats) or nothing (republicans) approach.

The perfect marriage for what we need for social programs would be the financial backing and reach of the goverment with the drive and inginuity of the private sector.

As a conservative, I want to have social programs the help those that really need it. I don't want to see the lazy and bureaucratic processes and inefficiencies that plauge the current programs. I also don't want to see these programs become so large and cumbersome that they help to deteriorate our financial health. There needs to be a balance.


In Minnestoa we take our TANIF (Federal cash welfare program) and incorporate it into MFIP (State program based on TANIF with more emphasis on training and greater expectations for participation in job search, voluteering, etc. than the federal regulations). The vast majority of the training, job search monitoring and career guidance is not administered by the government, but contracted out to private agencies that specialize in employment services. Compare our rates of time families spend on cash assitance, recidivism, family equity upon exit, etc. to other states. We're doing it right. I believe that this has a lot to do with the slight differences in policy, but has even more to do with the privitization of the employment service aspect. If an agency is not performing every year they can lose their contracts.
 
2012-06-14 10:08:11 AM  

Alphax: Dog Welder: To address Wisconsin, I really think a lot of what happened behind the failed recall is that there was a sizable chunk of the voters in Wisconsin who believe that a recall election shouldn't be used against someone because you disagree with his policies. Recalls are there to protect the populace against corruption and malfeasance, not because you don't like the politician or he did something you don't like. This meant, you had people voting against the recall despite the fact they don't necessarily appreciate the guy they were keeping in office. The exit poll numbers, with many democrats and union households voting against the recall, seem to verify this sentiment.

Which still doesn't make sense to me, as it looks like Walker's entire term in office has been corruption and malfeasance.


I live in WI. The reason people voted for Walker was simple. Property taxes didn't go up for the first time in 12 or so years. People with heavy teaching blood lines in their family voted for him b/c of it. Nevermind it went into the hands of his corporate sponsors. I can't tell you how many times people have inadvertently told me they support Walker's rat face and then immediately after gloated about not having to pay higher property taxes.

The biggest problem of course, is that the money will have to come from somewhere b/c the way we're doing it right now is unsustainable. Plus, his "balanced" budget is using an old political (even though they all do it) accounting trick where it's counting forecasted revenues, which of course won't come.
 
2012-06-14 11:47:34 AM  

intelligent comment below: That's because you're so stupid you vote against your own self interests.


In some ways, yes. In other ways no. Overall you have to take your own self-interest and ideals and match them up with what the different parties policies are. 99.99% of the time no one is going to match up perfectly. Where I live and what is important to these folks, the Republicans win hands down. For these folks, even though they may be poor, it is not about how much money and services they can get from goverment.
 
2012-06-14 12:00:41 PM  

Job Creator: Who is defrauding Medicare? Private business, that's who.


That is some of it. Individuals get in on the action quite a bit, too. Go read the ABC/60 Minutes article in the link above. They do a pretty good job of showing how some of this works.

There will always be fraud and corruption in any organization. I would guess that government is not more, not less corrupt than any other large organization.

True, but the fraud in Medicare is about 10% of the total budget, if the $60 Billion estimate is correct. That would seem to be a little bit out of line from what to expect in the private sector. In any case, the issue with Medicare as a whole is that this program has on of the highest unfunded liabilities of any goverment program. Ways to help reduce this cost will not only help the taxpayer, but will also help the finanical viability of this nation going forward.
 
2012-06-14 12:07:11 PM  

Citrate1007: In Minnestoa we take our TANIF (Federal cash welfare program) and incorporate it into MFIP (State program based on TANIF with more emphasis on training and greater expectations for participation in job search, voluteering, etc. than the federal regulations). The vast majority of the training, job search monitoring and career guidance is not administered by the government, but contracted out to private agencies that specialize in employment services. Compare our rates of time families spend on cash assitance, recidivism, family equity upon exit, etc. to other states. We're doing it right. I believe that this has a lot to do with the slight differences in policy, but has even more to do with the privitization of the employment service aspect. If an agency is not performing every year they can lose their contracts.


And that type of stuff is what gives me hope that we can get things turned around for many of these programs. However, the status-quo has become so entrenced with regard to the big 3 - Medicaid, SS, and Defense - that it is nearly impossible to get any measure of reform passed without being called a grandma killer.
 
2012-06-14 12:30:36 PM  
dookdookdook: [img7.imageshack.us image 553x228]

GOP, I am dissapoint!!!
 
2012-06-14 02:01:38 PM  

fsbilly: squidgod2000: Man, those comments are great...

The Earth was 7 degrees hotter when King Henry VIII was in power, so I guess they must have been driving alot of SUV's on those days.

That amounts to "I don't understand rocket science, therefore there is no space program."


Pretty much this.
 
2012-06-14 04:31:36 PM  

HeadLever: For these folks, even though they may be poor, it is not about how much money and services they can get from goverment.



That's just proving my point even more.

Of course it is, they all rely on government handouts. Social security, medicare, disability, pensions. But they tell everyone how they hate government handouts... except the ones that give them money.
 
2012-06-14 06:13:20 PM  

HeadLever: intelligent comment below: That's because you're so stupid you vote against your own self interests.

In some ways, yes. In other ways no. Overall you have to take your own self-interest and ideals and match them up with what the different parties policies are. 99.99% of the time no one is going to match up perfectly. Where I live and what is important to these folks, the Republicans win hands down. For these folks, even though they may be poor, it is not about how much money and services they can get from goverment.


i'll bite

so what exactly is "important to these folks"?

what are their priorities that the republicans are handling so beautifully
 
2012-06-15 08:05:56 PM  

ordinarysteve: Obama's melatonin levels.


Shouldn't that be melanin?
 
2012-06-16 12:55:18 AM  

Trayal: ordinarysteve: Obama's melatonin levels.

Shouldn't that be melanin?


yeah I'm a dummy, i guess that would make sense if Obama had trouble sleeping :)
 
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