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(WorldNetDaily)   Humans have been to space while chimps just sling poo, therefore evolution is bogus. Now buy this book   (wnd.com) divider line 408
    More: Obvious, straw man, scientific laws, Cell Biology, evolution, Carl Gallups, magic, superstitions  
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3849 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jun 2012 at 9:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-13 06:45:00 AM

Corporate Self: Ishkur:
That's not science's current answer. You are arguing from a position of improbability. Science makes no such claim that abiogenesis happens by random chance. It is undirected, yes, but it still adheres to basic fundamental preferences and behaviors in bio-chemical logic.

Then why have we found no life outside of Earth? Surely if its a natural undirected process, it would be everywhere in the Universe right?

If its so natural and inevitable why is Earth the only place we have found it?


Who said it was "inevitable"? The only thing he said was "improbable != impossible." That's one of the chief creationist arguments, and I guarantee you not one person who makes it has ever taken a probability or statistics class in their life.

/This moment is infinitesimally possible. Yet here we are.
 
2012-06-13 07:06:47 AM
This thread is 'proof' to my 'theory' that creationism is at its core a result of lack of intelligence and education. It's difficult to make this statement without insulting people (and not to sound like a condescending dark).
Even at a semantic level, the level of obfuscation, willful misrepresentations, ignorance of even most basic facts support my theory that creationism orginates from lack of education and propagates because of systematic abuse of those affected.
 
2012-06-13 07:09:00 AM
"And this notion that somehow the Christian is dedicated to a belief in a magic man in the sky is nothing more than a straw man argument fallaciously set up by the atheist. My book systematically exposes and demolishes this straw man argument."

With an army of my own straw men.
 
2012-06-13 07:09:27 AM
...condescending fark...
 
2012-06-13 07:13:54 AM
Does WND run articles from anyone who isn't trying to fleece some book sales off the rubes?
 
2012-06-13 07:20:48 AM
This whole evolution-or-Genesis thing was interesting...

...back when I was 12.
 
2012-06-13 07:25:40 AM

stoli n coke: Does WND run articles from anyone who isn't trying to fleece some book sales off the rubes?


yes, occasionaly there is DVDs, and Chuck Norris offering medical advice.
 
2012-06-13 07:29:23 AM

IlGreven: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings." ~Richard Dawkins
"Religion leads you to a glorious place. Science leads you to killing people." ~Ben Stein

Whose word is truer?


Easy: Dawkins. Because we have proof that people went to the moon. We do not have any evidence that anyone's gone anywhere when they die.

There are four assertions here. Three are verifiable. Only Stein's assertion on religion is specious.
 
2012-06-13 07:33:35 AM

Wangiss: If anything, I'd say the human race has evolved into a new species.
We are the only one that can change our offspring's DNA deliberately.
That's unique in the animal kingdom, significantly different from the humans 10+ millennia ago.

Can you think of a new name for this advanced human species?

Homo Sapiens Customizens
Homo Sapiens Arbitrensis
Homo Sapiens HowYouDoin


Homo Sapiens OptionsPackage42iensis
 
2012-06-13 07:35:17 AM
Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now.
 
2012-06-13 07:37:22 AM
There is no intelligent life on this planet. We prove that daily.
 
2012-06-13 07:47:22 AM

Bigdogdaddy: There is no intelligent life on this planet. We prove that daily.


Uhhh... The mice would like to have a word with you.
 
2012-06-13 07:54:01 AM
I was going to read this, but I got distracted and disturbed by Joseph Farah's mustache. He should shave it off before it crawls up his nose and eats his brain.
 
2012-06-13 08:05:27 AM
Chimps go "Ooga ooga!" a lot, much like Republicans, therefore Sarah Palin is automatically Presdident and Obama has to retroactively star as an uncredited extra in Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes remake.
 
2012-06-13 08:10:49 AM
If god created us he sucks or is lazy

The end
 
2012-06-13 08:11:22 AM

vernonFL: I don't believe in the laws of thermodynamics either!


Meh. Get back to me when you no longer believe in gravity.
 
2012-06-13 08:13:02 AM
Reading the logic some people use to discount evolution, makes me believe we did come from apes... See the crap being thrown around still
 
2012-06-13 08:21:22 AM
Today's Evolution is:
D-evolution= Being reasonable to the point of whimpiness when faced with an opponent who hates you for no real reason at all except that they love hatin.
R-evolution= Slinging Poo and otherwise behaving like real shyts
 
2012-06-13 08:23:21 AM

Bucky Katt: Is there any branch of modern science that the Wing Nuts DON'T hate?


Video streaming technology that allows their computer to become a Magic Sex Box is probably OK.
 
2012-06-13 08:34:26 AM
And I as I read further...

There's something else here that demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of evolution and natural selection. Evolution and natural selection favor the species that is most able to reproduce successfully. Whether that species is advanced enough to build communications satellites or of such limited ability that it operates like an insect means nothing. Assuming that evolution favors advanced intelligence is like assuming it favors large size or the ability to digest wood. Now being intelligent certainly does give you some advantages, rather huge ones in fact, but this author seems to think that the end all goal of evolution and natural selection is to produce human like levels of intelligence when its not.
 
2012-06-13 08:34:56 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

Accepts evolution, therefore isn't Christian.
 
2012-06-13 08:37:42 AM
I really desperately want to click links to WingNutDaily sometimes just to laugh at the stupid people, but I don't want to encourage this kind of behavior by creating the illusion that I support it in a more general sense.

They're kind of like the Jackass of politics. I want to see it, but I don't want to encourage it.....
 
2012-06-13 08:38:01 AM

Pharque-it: fozziewazzi: nmrsnr: fozziewazzi: As long as we're mortal there will be religion. Few people can wrap their heads around and accept the notion of permanent oblivion after death. And then there's the eternal question of how existence began, which may never be answered. I agree that the same innate human hunger for knowledge that drives science also drives religion, but for now at least science is ill-equipped to answer the most fundamental questions humans have been asking themselves for millenia, So religion isn't going anywhere.

I agree with your assessment, except: If a set of theories is shown to be inaccurate and fail at being predictive in every testable way (read: religion), why would I trust it to predict what happens in the untestable realms?

The religious would tell you they're not looking for factual truth in the scientific, material sense. The ones that try fail miserably. Most are looking for purpose in life, even hope. Science isn't going to provide that.

Wow!

The scientific purpose of life is life itself! Reproduction, adaptation etc. Science is certainly providing that. And hope is a manifestation of awareness. But you do not need awareness for survival and evolution.


The point is science will never be able to push aside religion completely. There will always remain very basic fundamental questions of existence that science will never be able to answer satisfactorily. Beyond that If someone is poor and in poor health with no prospect of every seeing anything better in this life, religion is better positioned to provide that person with hope and purpose. All science would offer is "you're going to live a miserable life, and then die. Sorry". Not a powerful message. Religion will remain.
 
2012-06-13 08:45:03 AM
"In over 150 years of human attempts at replicating this accidental process, we have not even come close to doing so - even with OUR intelligent input involved!"

HHHAAAAHAAAHAA!!! WOOOHOOOOO...

HAHAHAHAHAHA... damn, you are a dumb person...
 
2012-06-13 08:55:50 AM

randomjsa: And I as I read further...

There's something else here that demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of evolution and natural selection.


You don't say.

Ignorance? At WND?
 
2012-06-13 08:59:06 AM

Kibbler: This whole evolution-or-Genesis thing was interesting...

...back when I was 12.


A few years ago I stumbled upon a show about creation on a religious station (I was channel surfing). Here was their "logic":

1) Either the creation story in Genesis or Evolution must be true
2) Since it can't be proven that God doesn't exist, the story in Genesis must be true

I think I had brain cells commit suicide after hearing this.
 
2012-06-13 09:00:19 AM
I believe God created the world through evolution.

Head assplosion.
 
2012-06-13 09:00:24 AM
The politics tab needs to evolve some more headlines.
 
2012-06-13 09:09:20 AM

fozziewazzi: The point is science will never be able to push aside religion completely. There will always remain very basic fundamental questions of existence that science will never be able to answer satisfactorily. Beyond that If someone is poor and in poor health with no prospect of every seeing anything better in this life, religion is better positioned to provide that person with hope and purpose. All science would offer is "you're going to live a miserable life, and then die. Sorry". Not a powerful message. Religion will remain.


I was with you until you said "All science would offer is . . . " That's complete bullshiat. Science gives us tools we can use to improve our lives, reduce human suffering, make the world safer and expand our knowledge of the universe. Science gives us medicine, food that grows in adverse conditions, technology that allows family to communicate long distance, and lesbian porn. How can you claim that science can only offer the knowledge of a miserable life?

One could argue that science also gives us the means to cause suffering - but since religion often provides the reason for doing so, you aren't going to get much traction there. The truth is that science gives the human spirit the means to achieve its greatest dreams. Religion- at best - merely guides the dream.
 
2012-06-13 09:09:48 AM
This thread is reinforces my belief that people need to go to their nearest community college and sign up for a Philosophy of Science class.

The thing that makes science cool...the very thing that gives it the edge over religion and superstition...is that the aim of science is not to give us truth or facts, but rather models and best guesses that can be discarded when they cease predicting phenomena.

When confronted with Hume's "Problem of Induction" (white v. black swans), science gracefully sidesteps the issue. On the other hand, religion promises short cuts and superstitious paths to "truth." With science, there exists possible observations that can render hypotheses and theories false; with religion, the circularity of their thought processes (and adherence to faith as a virtue) means that there is no observation that can convince a religious mind that they are wrong.

To me, it's easy to see that there needs to be a concerted effort to rescue people from the brainwashing effects of religion. For a developed nation, the US tolerates too much ignorance of science.
 
2012-06-13 09:16:44 AM
If evolution is true, then why are my parents still alive? Explain that.
 
2012-06-13 09:17:28 AM

daveUSMC: I believe God created the world through evolution.

Head assplosion.


So you moved him back from differentiation of life to creation of life. What are you going to do when science figures out how life actually came to be through natural processes? Move him back to the universal singularity? What about when we understand that, move him back to brane collisions? And when we understand that, then what? What are you going to do if some day we have the capability to mathematically explain, map and predict everything in the universe from its smallest binding forces to its biggest explosions? Then what?

Constantly moving god back a step in response to new information is short-sighted and only ensures that this sort of retarded argument just keeps happening. You either believe your god created everything, you don't, or you don't believe there's a god at all. Anything else is just lying to yourself. At some point you're either going to have to accept that either whatever you think god is didn't do these things and isn't a natural part of our universe or anything in it at all or you'll have to conclude that science is lying to you. As long as humans continue to have the capability of unraveling the rules of the universe to a more specific degree, there is no constant middle ground you can stand on.
 
2012-06-13 09:28:59 AM

randomjsa: And I as I read further...

There's something else here that demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of evolution and natural selection. Evolution and natural selection favor the species that is most able to reproduce successfully. Whether that species is advanced enough to build communications satellites or of such limited ability that it operates like an insect means nothing. Assuming that evolution favors advanced intelligence is like assuming it favors large size or the ability to digest wood. Now being intelligent certainly does give you some advantages, rather huge ones in fact, but this author seems to think that the end all goal of evolution and natural selection is to produce human like levels of intelligence when its not.


You're quite right - now, I think it's a somewhat forgivable fallacy, since intelligence HAS proven to be a pretty formidable tool of survival and adaptation. But, yeah - there IS no "ultimate weapon" in the struggle for genetic survival. It's a "proof of the pudding" kind of deal.
And if there's anything that's generally well-understood on Fark, it's pudding.
 
2012-06-13 09:32:44 AM

Splinshints: daveUSMC: I believe God created the world through evolution.

Head assplosion.

So you moved him back from differentiation of life to creation of life. What are you going to do when science figures out how life actually came to be through natural processes? Move him back to the universal singularity? What about when we understand that, move him back to brane collisions? And when we understand that, then what? What are you going to do if some day we have the capability to mathematically explain, map and predict everything in the universe from its smallest binding forces to its biggest explosions? Then what?

Constantly moving god back a step in response to new information is short-sighted and only ensures that this sort of retarded argument just keeps happening. You either believe your god created everything, you don't, or you don't believe there's a god at all. Anything else is just lying to yourself. At some point you're either going to have to accept that either whatever you think god is didn't do these things and isn't a natural part of our universe or anything in it at all or you'll have to conclude that science is lying to you. As long as humans continue to have the capability of unraveling the rules of the universe to a more specific degree, there is no constant middle ground you can stand on.


Truly, you care about this way more than I do.

Do I really portend to know or care to know exactly how God scientifically worked/works? No. I have my faith, which I don't think has to intrude on science. Maybe I will have to revise some ideas that I have about my faith along the way, as new scientific discoveries come out. Fine. If you will allow me to hold my religious beliefs- in which I find great personal strength and comfort; through which I try to be a better fellow human being; and of which I do not attempt to foist upon others- and somehow find it in yourself to not be a condescending burglar of turds, I would be most appreciative.
 
2012-06-13 09:32:47 AM
You know it's getting close to the election year when right-wing propaganda outlets start pandering to creationists.
 
2012-06-13 09:34:55 AM
But, the space program was a 100% big government funded program that was wildly successful and brought tremendous innovation and technological advancement.

WHO'S YOUR GOD NOW?!?!
 
2012-06-13 09:43:43 AM

s2s2s2: The politics tab needs to evolve some more headlines.


Seconded.
 
2012-06-13 09:45:10 AM
It IS hard to believe that the people who run World Nutbag Daily share a common ancestor with those who got us to the moon.
 
2012-06-13 09:45:53 AM

fozziewazzi: The point is science will never be able to push aside religion completely. There will always remain very basic fundamental questions of existence that science will never be able to answer satisfactorily.


Such as? And before you drop that old canard "Why are we here?" please be ready to answer the counter questions "Why do think there has to be a reason?"and "Why do you think that is a question that science will never be able to answer?".

Beyond that If someone is poor and in poor health with no prospect of every seeing anything better in this life, religion is better positioned to provide that person with hope and purpose. All science would offer is "you're going to live a miserable life, and then die. Sorry". Not a powerful message. Religion will remain.

And science is in a better position to actually make that person's life better. Scientific advances leading to medical advances lead to easier, cheaper, medical treatments that can (and many people believe should) be made available to all via social programs. Such social programs themselves are not necessarily science or religion dependent, but things like basic universal healthcare would be building off the fruits of science, not religion.

And, if science can be said to imply or inspire any overall messages about life, "you're going to live a miserable life and then die. Sorry" couldn't be further from the truth.

Science says "Hey, even you, poor miserable person, can learn to understand and appreciate the awesomeness of the Universe, because Science will not tell you that there are things you are not allowed to know or attempt to learn. Science itself cannot make your life automatically better, but it can say, 'hey, here are some tools. You now have the the means to do your best to make your life better. Best of luck to you.' And what will religion tell you? 'Hey there, it's OK to suffer and be miserable now, because things will be much better after you die. So, don't bother trying to better your miserable lot, but instead be content with it so you can enjoy bliss in the afterlife. How do I know? Oh, some guy wrote it down in a book a couple thousand years ago.' Certainly a good message for those who are not poor and miserable, because as long as the poor and miserable believe that, you won't have to worry about them rising up and upsetting things for all of you."

/but, you are probably right that science will never push aside religion completely. Nor is that its goal or intent
//science is merely attempting to explain the universe in a useful and consistent way. Any religion falling by the wayside due to that is merely a side-effect
 
2012-06-13 09:46:54 AM
This has probably been covered, but this has not business being a political discussion.

We SHOULD be talking about the fact that Chuck Norris is predicting for a border invasion. derp
 
2012-06-13 09:56:51 AM
I ain't never seen a monkey give birth to a man.

I love that old chestnut, cracks me up every time.

Perlin Noise: "In over 150 years of human attempts at replicating this accidental process, we have not even come close to doing so - even with OUR intelligent input involved!"

HHHAAAAHAAAHAA!!! WOOOHOOOOO...

HAHAHAHAHAHA... damn, you are a dumb person...


That's another one of my favorites, if you can't figure it out over a weekend it can't be true. Oh and forget finding new information, if you find new information that helps you better understand the theory it means the whole thing is invalid. That is exactly how science works. hehe
 
2012-06-13 09:58:54 AM
They tell us that
We lost our tails,
evolving up
From little snails
I say it's all,
just wind in sails

We're pinheads now
We are not whole
We're pinheads all
Jocko homo

Monkey men all
In business suit
Teachers and critics
All dance the poot

We go now,
God made man
But he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
We're all here to prove it
I can walk like an ape,
Talk like an ape
I can do what a monkey can do
God made man
But a monkey supplied the glue
 
2012-06-13 10:05:06 AM
I've always been curious, do other faiths have a problem with evolution? I mean, evolution doesn't necessarily jibe with Buddhist or Hindu or Zoroastrianism but I can't say that I've ever heard Hindus demand that schools teach the cosmic dance of Shiva as an alternative to the Big Bang theory. Of course, not living in India so I could be completely wrong, but a couple of google searches yeilded no results.

I suspect that the furor over evolution is a particularly American Christian phenomenon, though I wouldn't wager against some fundamentalist Muslims somewhere with the same viewpoint.
 
2012-06-13 10:05:27 AM
The people who denounce and reject science will be the first ones in line for science if they get a disease.
 
2012-06-13 10:09:43 AM

NeverDrunk23: The people who denounce and reject science will be the first ones in line for science if they get a disease.


Of course they will. They're either rich or uninsured and get treatment at the emergency room.
 
2012-06-13 10:17:33 AM
The whole notion of a soul is a figment of human imagination.

The whole notion of imagination is a figment of human imagination, so there.
 
2012-06-13 10:20:41 AM

erstwhileplanet: I've always been curious, do other faiths have a problem with evolution? I mean, evolution doesn't necessarily jibe with Buddhist or Hindu or Zoroastrianism but I can't say that I've ever heard Hindus demand that schools teach the cosmic dance of Shiva as an alternative to the Big Bang theory. Of course, not living in India so I could be completely wrong, but a couple of google searches yeilded no results.


FWIW, Thailand is primarily Buddhist, and as a high school biology teacher, I've never had an problems teaching evolution here. There doesn't seem to be any controversy about teaching it (I've never heard from parents or students saying it conflicts with their beliefs). Granted, I only teach at one school, so this is only a single data point. But I've never heard of anyone getting up in arms about evolution. They just seem to accept it as part of learning biology.

Then again, I've noticed that, even with the more talented students, people aren't very prone to making connections between different subjects or parts of life here, so there may be some kind of conflict between their religious beliefs and evolution at some philosophical level that I'm not aware, but it simply doesn't cross most people's minds to put them side by side for comparison. Of course, this is purely anecdotal based on my observation of students being completely flabbergasted when I point out a connection between something we are learning in biology and something they are learning in their chemistry or physics classes. It's like it never occurs to many of them that things they learn in different subjects can and often do connect to each other.

But they don't seem to be encouraged to think that way anyway, and more of their learning (especially in their Thai language classes; I teach in an English Program -- Thai students taking most core subjects in English, but some classes also in Thai, and the school also has many students not in the English Program) is wrote memorization for BS standardized tests and university entrance exams rather than trying to actually understand the material.

/I focus on them learning the concepts and ideas of biology rather than just memorizing lists of names of things
//so really the majority of their time in biology involves learning about or applying ideas of evolution, since it is so fundamental to biology
 
2012-06-13 10:21:32 AM

bobsixpack: I was going to read this, but I got distracted and disturbed by Joseph Farah's mustache. He should shave it off before it crawls up his nose and eats his brain.


Not much danger of that, now is there?
 
2012-06-13 10:23:41 AM

kid_icarus: Interesting. I can't help but notice that the author (Carl Gallups) has no scientific background at all.
Seems legit.


that just makes him all the more credible, scientists are just scammers who lie to protect each others federal grant money.

when you really think about it, science hasn't done anything good for humanity.
 
2012-06-13 10:25:04 AM

brap: Ham was courageous.


Nah.

Ham was Cool. Fonzie-like cool.

Check him out, chillin' like a villain:

blogs-images.forbes.com
 
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