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(WCYB News 5)   News: A Farkette has been forced out of a store because she has a service dog. Fark: The store was Goodwill Inc., an organization that claims to champion the disabled   (wcyb.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Goodwill Inc., service dog, service animal, Lundberg, non-profit organizations, discrimination  
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16363 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2012 at 4:42 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2012-06-12 01:45:32 PM  
8 votes:
Having worked for Goodwill (yes, really), I'm not surprised. Ignorance is a virtue in that company, and the consistent preaching of prosperity gospel to the homeless (in a battered women's shelter nonetheless) just had me sick.

And, most of the money earned through those stores gets shuffled up to administration and the United Way lobbying projects. (The network was completely unsecured and after pointing it out to HR, I was told to not worry about it because it was "unhackable". The result was that I read EVERYTHING the program director read for almost a year - grant applications, revenue projections, HR issues, and directives from above)

Let the bastards burn.
2012-06-12 01:55:20 PM  
6 votes:
On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.
2012-06-12 02:44:34 PM  
5 votes:

thomps: houndoggie: netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

what if the dog shiats or pisses on the stores floor. Is the disabled person required to clean it up? What if the dog bites some one? Is the person liable for the dogs actions?

"oh i really wish i could clean it up, but part of my disability is a severe allergy to dog piss and sh*t. would you do me a solid and clean that up for me, thaaaaaanks."


and of course a real service animal would be trained not to shiat or piss inside and to ignore other people
2012-06-12 02:35:18 PM  
5 votes:

nekom: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

Yeah it's pretty obvious, AND who in the world would fake such a thing just to get to take their dog into a store?


Umm a hell of a lot of people, especially those that think their pet is their kid and is therefore allowed everywhere they are.
2012-06-12 05:41:41 PM  
4 votes:
Look, I'm all for helping the handicapped. Give 'em the best parking, let 'em cut to the front of the line, let them be able to access public buildings, etc.

However, I don't think it's unreasonable to require some sort of certification or license on the animal or maybe mark the animal in some way. I'm willing to make room for your difficulties in society if you're willing to put up with mine .... and mine is that I hate animals in places I shop and eat.
2012-06-12 05:09:42 PM  
4 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.

You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?


In all those cases, you're providing information to government agencies that are governed by strict privacy legislation and that need the information to administer a social benefit. It's not the business of the petty authoritarian managing the Goodwill or the pimply kid at the fast food place or whatever why you need a service animal. Once they're told the animal is there to assist with a disability, they really need to back off. Routinely inconveniencing and/or violating the privacy of people with disabilities isn't justified by the fact that some people might abuse the law.
2012-06-12 04:49:31 PM  
4 votes:
She sounds like one of the "disabled" folk who get their pet licensed so they can take their pets with them wherever they go.

Kind of like fat people and their medicaid paid-for hooverounds.
2012-06-12 02:50:52 PM  
4 votes:
Granted, it's been a long while since I worked in the service sector, but I can't believe any business that serves the public doesn't train managers on the ADA laws.

"When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person's disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."
2012-06-12 02:13:15 PM  
4 votes:

Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.


handicapped people are required to hang tags or have handicap plates to allow them to park in the handicap spots (while making handicapped faces). I see no difference in having the service dog have a scarf or vest that designates its role.
2012-06-12 01:57:46 PM  
4 votes:

Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.


Actually that was changed last year. Only dogs and miniature horses qualify now. And they have to specifically trained for assistance.
2012-06-12 01:39:18 PM  
4 votes:
They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

24.media.tumblr.com
2012-06-12 05:24:49 PM  
3 votes:
Or the lady could stop being a dickhole and have a medical card of some sort to avoid being a whiny biatch.

Federal law or not, how is a place of business supposed to enforce two separate laws without the ability to confirm the veracity of people claiming their pet is a helper animal? It's against the law for most places of businesses to have animals inside the premises.

My wife has a medical device implant and has to carry a medical card to ensure she doesn't have to go through metal detectors, which can screw up the software. If you are a societal outlier, carry information that can convey you are being truthful the the population at large.
2012-06-12 05:08:20 PM  
3 votes:
Does anyone have a kid who's NOT autistic?
2012-06-12 03:10:20 PM  
3 votes:
My attack dog is also my therapy dog.

Watching my dog maul people is soothing to watch and good for my blood pressure.
2012-06-12 02:42:42 PM  
3 votes:

Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.


You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?
2012-06-12 02:14:22 PM  
3 votes:

sweetmelissa31: Whatever, my service animal always takes me and my red headed son where we need to be


Seriously though everyone in that picture is SO FAT. It's like America dot jpeg
2012-06-12 02:11:33 PM  
3 votes:

houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?


Because there is no governing body... there are schools that can issue tags, you can even buy them off the internet. So, they mean nothing.

Also: Because Federal Law prohibits it.
2012-06-12 02:04:45 PM  
3 votes:
So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?
2012-06-12 02:04:13 PM  
3 votes:
why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?
2012-06-12 01:54:13 PM  
3 votes:

James!: sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

[24.media.tumblr.com image 432x425]

What is wrong with that dog's leg?


It needs its own service dog :(
2012-06-12 07:12:27 PM  
2 votes:

ciberido:

So basically your argument is "My disability trumps your disability." It's not a great argument, honestly.


But it's ok for them to chase me out of places I'm at or make me sick? So your argument is "their disability trumps my disability."

I don't know you. You may be a very nice person in real life. Certainly there are people who are very nice face-to-face but come across as jerks on the Internet. With that caveat in mind, if you "explain your situation" face-to-face the way you've "explained" it here on Fark, then I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the people with service animals you've met who were the rude and insulting ones.

What happened was, I inquired on how long the dog was going to be trained down in the lower level where I was working. The person responded that "that dog has every right to be here!" in a nasty tone. I went to the IT department manager, and asked to be moved away from the service dog. Since I was a contractor, he kicked me off the contract, stating he "could not guarantee that I would not be asked to work near a service dog, that might trigger my asthma." Luckily, my manager was able to get me another assignment. The other incident wasn't one of rudeness, but I was at a retirement party for a co-worker, and had to leave early due to a asthma attack triggered by a group of service dog owners/trainers having some party at the next table. I just simply had to leave so I could breath again. So if I seem a bit testy, it's because these dogs, both legitimate and otherwise, have more rights than I do. I'm at fault for not being able to breath near their animal, but as long as their "rights" don't get impinged, I am told I have no right to complain, just suffer and leave.

When I was a kid, I would often have to be rushed to the emergency room because my asthma attacks would be so severe I would start turning blue. They kept getting so severe, I was hospitalized for a week at one point. I found out later that was the closest I've been to death due to asthma.
2012-06-12 06:45:15 PM  
2 votes:

Cletus C.: nonvideas: There's an amazing amount of ignorance in this thread regarding the service that service dogs provide for epileptics. I thought it was rather common knowledge, but apparently not.

Here's some knowledge for you:

People with epilepsy don't like to be called "epileptics."

Epilepsy is a condition they have, not a definition of who they are.


Seriously? I'm asthmatic, I call myself asthmatic, and I don't get offended if people call me "asthmatic". My son is autistic, and I don't find that word offensive, either. I don't see how epileptic is considered offensive. Now my wife is black, and there are certain words you could call her that would be offensive, but that's a different issue.
2012-06-12 06:16:24 PM  
2 votes:

Gaumond: FTA: "Although it wasn't designed that way, it's put places like Goodwill in a very tough position. With the animals not being required by law to wear a vest or dog tag, it makes it hard to tell which dog is a service dog and which isn't."

Manager: Sir/ma'am, We do not allow pets inside our store.

Sir/Ma'am: I understand but this is my service dog.

Manager: Carry on.

Now is that so hard.


Manager with proper training: I'm sorry, ma'am, your dog is clearly not under your control, it's been sniffing around other customers/it's not on a leash/I have observed it not responding to a voice command, so in accordance with ADA requirements I'm going to have to ask that you take it outside. If you would inform us of the nature of your disability we will gladly provide employee assistance with the tasks you're deficient in as, again, required by the ADA.

It really isn't that hard, I had to give that little speech quite a few times the last time I worked in a service industry. The trick is to repeatedly reference the law directly by name so that the customer knows in advance that you know your rights as a service provider and won't fall for their histrionic "i'll sue you" bullshiat.

//Alternately, if the dog is on a leash and staying at heel at all times, I would let it go.
2012-06-12 06:05:07 PM  
2 votes:
Perhaps this has been asked, but WTF good is a dog for a person who suffers occasional seizures related to a car wreck 20 years ago?

What does the dog do? Shove its collar in her mouth? Start barking madly so nobody will miss the spectacle? Though, the barking is likely trigger a grand mal.

I assume she does not drive. If you need a dog to accompany you into the store in case of a seizure DO NOT drive, please. Unless ... is the dog trained to take over the wheel and steer her to safety?
2012-06-12 06:04:31 PM  
2 votes:
Yes, I know the law says you don't have to prove anything, but if it really is a trained service dog, would it be such a terrible thing to have a service dog harness and its credentials on it?
2012-06-12 05:58:05 PM  
2 votes:

BackAssward:
Maybe I need to speak louder: a vest wouldn't have meant anything because the manager demanded papers, a vest would have meant bull shiat
/Clear now?


I'm thinking if the dog had been wearing a vest...no questions would have been asked...like in every other case of a service dog.
2012-06-12 05:41:52 PM  
2 votes:

buckler: A guy I know once traveled cross-country to move, and didn't want to spend the whole time at campsites, so he had a dog vest silkscreened with a fictitious animal-training logo for his dog. He stopped at a hotel for the night, and the desk clerk asked him for verification of the dog's service-animal status. He said "this dog is in training, and it's illegal for you to ask that," The clerk consulted with his supervisor, who said she'd put him in a handicapped room. He said "I'm a trainer, not a dog recipient." The supervisor then asked what would happen if the dog pooped or vomited in a room. "What do you do when a child does that? I'd clean it up," he said. Not sure who to root for in this context.


Root for the hotel. I had a real bad experience at a Super 8 once because they gave me a room that had been used for dogs (allergies and bad asthma). I nearly had to be hospitalized, and did have to be given another room. I want to know why the rights of people who "need animals" outweigh my "right to breath". When your disability can cause death, I think that should be given higher priority. Even with my medication, the situation still is serious unless I can move away from the source of the allergens. I've had to leave restaurants and work spaces because of asthma problems due to service animals. One of these days, when I travel for work, I really fear getting stuck on a plane next to someone's "service animal". My inhalers only give temporary relief, and you still need to remove the source of the allergens. Taking my inhaler too many times will cause serious heart tremors, as albuterol is a stimulant. Every person I've met with a service animal that I explain my situation to, they become really rude and insulting. I like how the woman in the article was shopping with her husband, but still "needs" her epilepsy dog because her husband must be a total idiot incapable of recognizing a seizure and dialing 911.
2012-06-12 05:38:43 PM  
2 votes:
All of you AWs who would not qualify for actual disability who have service animals either certified on the internet or uncertified, whose PETS have not gone through months of on-site assistance training:

You're all coonts. You're abusing legitimate laws that protect those who need a well-trained animal to help them to get around, instead using the law for your darling surrogate furbabies who are not trained not to crap on the floor at K-Mart.
Yes, even the soldier, if his dog is not properly trained to behave and not be a filth-spreading PET.
2012-06-12 05:37:34 PM  
2 votes:

thomps: houndoggie: netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

what if the dog shiats or pisses on the stores floor. Is the disabled person required to clean it up? What if the dog bites some one? Is the person liable for the dogs actions?

"oh i really wish i could clean it up, but part of my disability is a severe allergy to dog piss and sh*t. would you do me a solid and clean that up for me, thaaaaaanks."


Actually, the person in charge of the service animal would be required to take care of any clean-up and/or attacks the service animal made. Though a person with a service animal would tell you they are highly trained and would not do those things. A colleague's service animal once held it for 6 hours at the airport because they weren't allowed to leave the security checkpoint. Airports are creating special areas for service animals now.

In addition, a business CAN ask "What service does this animal perform?" Any legitimate service animals are on harnesses which clearly state "Service animal" or "At work, please do not pet" because people are idiots and just walk up and touch strange animals. Anyone claiming they don't have to be trained is FOS and doesn't know the ADA as well as they would have you believe. The person is responsible for their service animal. Completely and totally.

/disability service provider
//12+ years
2012-06-12 05:14:00 PM  
2 votes:
I work in retail and I have seen people that have service animals but don't necessarily need one because they're disabled or anything but have a lot of anxiety and the animal helps that anxiety out in public. I've also seen customers where the service dog is pretty much a boxer with a little vest on and it's just a way for people to walk their big dog around on a leash inside the mall. I would never ever ask anyone to leave because they have a service animal, that's just not the right thing to do for the customer. I will however tell someone to pick up their little lap dog off the ground before it pees on any of my merchandise. You can usually tell the difference though, service dogs are generally very, very well behaved and very clean. The idea is that the service dog isn't noticed, it's as if they're not there at all.
2012-06-12 05:13:09 PM  
2 votes:
Yeah, service animals are supposed to be well-trained. As long as the thing isn't pissing or crapping all over the place, what exactly is the problem? I would rather share space with most dogs than most people.
2012-06-12 05:10:06 PM  
2 votes:
I also want to add I was really impressed with a service Yorkie I saw recently. At the grocery store I saw this woman with a tiny little tea cup sized terrier in the child seat of her cart with that little blue vest on. That dog was silent and intently watching its owner. Anytime she shifted to another shelf that dog tracked its gaze and I imagine it must be pretty difficult for a dog that tiny and adorable to keep on its task because of the number of people and children who would try to pet it or pick it up.
2012-06-12 05:02:46 PM  
2 votes:
A guy I know once traveled cross-country to move, and didn't want to spend the whole time at campsites, so he had a dog vest silkscreened with a fictitious animal-training logo for his dog. He stopped at a hotel for the night, and the desk clerk asked him for verification of the dog's service-animal status. He said "this dog is in training, and it's illegal for you to ask that," The clerk consulted with his supervisor, who said she'd put him in a handicapped room. He said "I'm a trainer, not a dog recipient." The supervisor then asked what would happen if the dog pooped or vomited in a room. "What do you do when a child does that? I'd clean it up," he said. Not sure who to root for in this context.
2012-06-12 04:55:33 PM  
2 votes:

Girion47: I've heard a rumor that you can claim your dog as a service companion and the airline has to let you fly with it.


Uh, closed environment and allergies... good luck with that one.
2012-06-12 04:55:07 PM  
2 votes:
their policy says no pets allowed.

Oh, they have a policy. The delicate geniuses at Goodwill have a policy.
2012-06-12 04:54:41 PM  
2 votes:
Agreed, the store are asshats.

That being said, there's enough material in the TriCities for several greenlights. The 54-year-old woman who plays gospel music you can hear two houses away. The TV weatherman shot with a crossbow. The woman who left her kids in the car while she went fishing. And the mugshots. You can't make this stuff up.
2012-06-12 04:54:29 PM  
2 votes:
cl.jroo.me
We need to zee your papers!
2012-06-12 04:51:03 PM  
2 votes:
I find it far more rewarding to personally send money to woman in need rather than going through a third party program. SO I like to give or send money to dancers, entertainers and unwed mothers( who have great babysitters that work till midnight)woman who can only afford to dress in shorts to short to even cover their rear end and sometimes cant even afford clothes, via cash or gift cards or even jewelry. I'm just soft that way.Tends to make everyone happy.
2012-06-12 04:49:05 PM  
2 votes:
This country is so farked up. So, say someone takes a NON service dog into a store but says it's a service dog and it bites someone or shiats somewhere. That's ok, right?
2012-06-12 04:17:29 PM  
2 votes:
thedailyrecord.com

At least it's not a farking horse!

Let me in your store with my farm animal, the government says I'm special, damnit!!
2012-06-12 02:50:37 PM  
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?


By using your eyes and your brain.
2012-06-12 02:48:17 PM  
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: I really don't want my face that close to your pet's face. How about YOU carry the animal's photo ID and show it on demand?


Why don't you unclench.
2012-06-12 02:40:33 PM  
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.


My sister had assistant pony, my cousin had assistant pony, ..So, what's wrong with that?
2012-06-12 02:24:56 PM  
2 votes:

houndoggie: Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.

handicapped people are required to hang tags or have handicap plates to allow them to park in the handicap spots (while making handicapped faces). I see no difference in having the service dog have a scarf or vest that designates its role.


I'm not arguing one way or the other. Just offering a possible rationale.

Auto tags may be a bit different in that, if abused, excludes the handicapped from something intended for them. Different scenario altogether.

But that then makes me think of pet tags. If you take your pet out in public, aren't you required to have a license tag for them regardless of whether it's a service animal? So why not just add a blurb or code on the tag that says "service animal"? That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
2012-06-12 01:58:33 PM  
2 votes:

Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.


Assholes ruin everything. Make the requirements looser so discrimination like this doesn't happen, and some selfish asshole will exploit it.
2012-06-12 01:52:42 PM  
2 votes:

Cythraul: Nothing inspires black-hat hackers more than someone using the term 'unhackable.'


You can't hack an insecure network.
2012-06-12 01:52:13 PM  
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.


How?
2012-06-12 01:50:57 PM  
2 votes:
I've known several people in the past that have worked there that have told me the employees at a particular store sorted through the stuff as it was brought in and made arrangements to either have it sold to them at a discount or just outright steal it before it hit the shelves. Most of it was resold at yard sales.

I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.
2012-06-12 01:42:21 PM  
2 votes:
Goodwill is almost as big a scam as Salvation Army
2012-06-12 01:41:22 PM  
2 votes:
Federal law does not require folks to show proof an animal is a service dog.
State Representative Jon Lundberg says places are not allowed to ask.



Stick a fork in 'em.
2012-06-12 01:20:25 PM  
2 votes:
"About a month ago my husband and I went to the Goodwill, and we were approached by their supervisor and were told that we had to leave or show certification or documentation for the dog," said Holowka.

If you don't want to sue all of Goodwill, you should at least get a resignation from that genius supervisor.

It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.
2012-06-13 06:23:03 PM  
1 vote:
It's pretty simple: You don't like the law? Petition to have it changed. Current law? Goodwill broke it.

Not much more to be said.
2012-06-13 01:19:05 AM  
1 vote:

TravisBickle62: I have a hard time getting worked up about this, the dog couldn't have stayed outside?


How can the dog detect seizures from outside the store?

gambitsgirl: This country is so farked up. So, say someone takes a NON service dog into a store but says it's a service dog and it bites someone or shiats somewhere. That's ok, right?


No, that is not ok whether the dog is a service dog or not. If the dog is disruptive or dangerous, it doesn't matter if it's a service dog-- they can be asked to leave.

Alphakronik: She sounds like one of the "disabled" folk who get their pet licensed so they can take their pets with them wherever they go.

How do you know from a short article? There are plenty of "invisible" disabilities out there and plenty of legitimate service dogs for these disabilities.

Psycoholic_Slag:
Ok, I don't really have a dog in this fight (heh) but you did not answer the question. Does the dog have a uniform or name tag? Seeing eye dogs are pretty obvious but what about the emotional support pets?


Emotional support dogs are not allowed in stores, people have no public access rights with one (with the exception of airline flights). If someone is claiming their dog is an emotional support pet or that their pet should be allowed in the store because it makes them feel better to have them there, that is not a valid reason legally. If the person is not disabled and the dog is not specifically trained to do work or tasks to mitigate the disability, it is not a service dog. Hence the questions store employees can ask which several people mentioned already.


Technoir: ha-ha-guy: Honestly I've been seeing a lot of "service dogs" for things like stress and the like. By service dog I mean mutt that runs around and pisses on things while acting up, and clearly has no training. When told to get the damn thing out of here, the owner screams about it being a service dog.


If they are doing this, they can be asked to leave whether they are a service dog or not.

yeah, i spent 8hrs on a transatlantic flight with some "special" coont and her yappy little purse dog because she claimed it was a 'service animal' that helped her with her anxiety of flying.

Technically, emotional support dogs are allowed on flights(with pre-arrangement by reservation), and they are not actually required to have specific training so this was most likely not a trained service dog, but actual an emotional support dog.
2012-06-13 01:18:30 AM  
1 vote:

mikieb: ciberido:

So basically your argument is "My disability trumps your disability." It's not a great argument, honestly.

But it's ok for them to chase me out of places I'm at or make me sick? So your argument is "their disability trumps my disability."

I don't know you. You may be a very nice person in real life. Certainly there are people who are very nice face-to-face but come across as jerks on the Internet. With that caveat in mind, if you "explain your situation" face-to-face the way you've "explained" it here on Fark, then I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the people with service animals you've met who were the rude and insulting ones.

What happened was, I inquired on how long the dog was going to be trained down in the lower level where I was working. The person responded that "that dog has every right to be here!" in a nasty tone. I went to the IT department manager, and asked to be moved away from the service dog. Since I was a contractor, he kicked me off the contract, stating he "could not guarantee that I would not be asked to work near a service dog, that might trigger my asthma." Luckily, my manager was able to get me another assignment. The other incident wasn't one of rudeness, but I was at a retirement party for a co-worker, and had to leave early due to a asthma attack triggered by a group of service dog owners/trainers having some party at the next table. I just simply had to leave so I could breath again. So if I seem a bit testy, it's because these dogs, both legitimate and otherwise, have more rights than I do. I'm at fault for not being able to breath near their animal, but as long as their "rights" don't get impinged, I am told I have no right to complain, just suffer and leave.

When I was a kid, I would often have to be rushed to the emergency room because my asthma attacks would be so severe I would start turning blue. They kept getting so severe, I was hospitalized for a week at one point. I found out later that was the closest I've be ...


Hey, did you ever notice that the visible presence of animals seems to trigger a reaction FAR before actual dander exposure could possibly trigger an attack?
The amount of dander that you inhale from a dog or dogs one table over is pretty much zero. Now, if you go into a dog-owner's house, you'll probably have a major allergic reaction. However, if your allergy is so significant that exposure at the near-zero level causes you medical distress, I would think that sitting next to a dog-owner would kill you even if you never saw the dog.
But that's not what is happening by your account of things. You see a dog, you panic, and you have trouble breathing. Dander doesn't work the way you describe it. If it did, you'd be dead by now, or living in a bubble. No, you have a psychosomatic triggered asthma caused by the appearance of animals. If it weren't so, a bus ride, a train ride, being in the car with a friend, going to restaurants- all of this would expose you to lots of pet dander, but you wouldn't see the dogs.
Service animals are generally bathed very regularly, and hardly dander up at all. Many other pet owners hardly bathe their dogs at all, and their clothes are pretty much lousy with dried dander that becomes airborne easily. That you have asthma attacks from service animals but not 10 to 20 hospitalization level encounters with coworkers and passersby a day leads me to believe that your problem isn't dander.

I
2012-06-13 12:38:05 AM  
1 vote:
I know someone personally that has their pet "certified" as a service dog so they can carry it on an airplane without having to pay the baggage fee. I don't think that is right.

I think that having to have a government issued credential for a service animal, or maybe at least an endorsement on your license, ID or passport would be sufficient to validate.
2012-06-13 12:15:56 AM  
1 vote:
what was her disability? unable to determine "News" from some horribly boring non-event and inability to properly use a fark headline meme?
2012-06-12 09:48:35 PM  
1 vote:

TravisBickle62: Does anyone have a kid who's NOT autistic?


jenny mccarthy?
2012-06-12 09:18:52 PM  
1 vote:
The attitudes of many of the "disabled" in this thread are the reason that a lot of society is very resistant to making concessions.
2012-06-12 08:11:13 PM  
1 vote:
Gyrfalcon:

But my experiences have been that might health and rights don't get considered at all. Getting sick from hotel rooms, or having to leave restaurants, and getting kicked off a work contract because these dogs have more rights than me. Hell, that same contract put me at a desk that was right below one of the vents, and that building hadn't have a vent cleaning in years. I mentioned that it kept making me cough, but nobody cared. I finally taped over the vent, then they started whining at me about that. Then the dog comes down for training, and I can't even get moved to another floor to do my work; I'm shown the door. Some hotels charge extra for an allergen free room (Residence Inn comes to mind). Try seeing what would happen if they charged extra for a wheel chair accessible room, or extra for a service animal. Lawsuits would be flying fast and furious. But people with asthma? Go ahead, charge them extra for a room with a purifier. I keep hearing that asthmatics have the same rights under the ADA, but I have yet to see it applied, ever.
2012-06-12 07:43:09 PM  
1 vote:

mikieb: ciberido:

So basically your argument is "My disability trumps your disability." It's not a great argument, honestly.

But it's ok for them to chase me out of places I'm at or make me sick? So your argument is "their disability trumps my disability."

I don't know you. You may be a very nice person in real life. Certainly there are people who are very nice face-to-face but come across as jerks on the Internet. With that caveat in mind, if you "explain your situation" face-to-face the way you've "explained" it here on Fark, then I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the people with service animals you've met who were the rude and insulting ones.

What happened was, I inquired on how long the dog was going to be trained down in the lower level where I was working. The person responded that "that dog has every right to be here!" in a nasty tone. I went to the IT department manager, and asked to be moved away from the service dog. Since I was a contractor, he kicked me off the contract, stating he "could not guarantee that I would not be asked to work near a service dog, that might trigger my asthma." Luckily, my manager was able to get me another assignment. The other incident wasn't one of rudeness, but I was at a retirement party for a co-worker, and had to leave early due to a asthma attack triggered by a group of service dog owners/trainers having some party at the next table. I just simply had to leave so I could breath again. So if I seem a bit testy, it's because these dogs, both legitimate and otherwise, have more rights than I do. I'm at fault for not being able to breath near their animal, but as long as their "rights" don't get impinged, I am told I have no right to complain, just suffer and leave.

When I was a kid, I would often have to be rushed to the emergency room because my asthma attacks would be so severe I would start turning blue. They kept getting so severe, I was hospitalized for a week at one point. I found out later that was the closest I've be ...


I'm not picking on you, mikieb, you just gave me the hypo for the following rant.

This is just an example of what we've come to as a society. One person has asthma (status asthmaticus is what kills you, btw) and cannot function around dogs; one person has epilepsy and needs a dog to function in society. Obviously both people have a right--but what is that right? The epileptic cannot tell the asthmatic to go away and breathe somewhere else; the asthmatic cannot tell the epileptic to go away and have a siezure somewhere else. And NEITHER person is willing to back down because it's their RIGHTS goddamn it!

Unfortunately, current law is that everyone's rights are exactly equal to everyone else's; and laws are currently written to enforce that with no room for compromise. If Person A has a disability and Person B has a disability and their accommodations conflict, then someone has to make either a decision or a compromise, and nobody is willing to do it. Do we fire the person with asthma who can't be around dogs, or the person with a dog who has to have it to work? Howabout firing both of them and not hiring these pesky disabled people next time? That's going to happen if we in the disabled community don't stop arguing about whose disability deserves more consideration.

The harder solution--which businesses won't do, alas--is to find a mid-point everyone can work at. If Person A can't work near the dog and also can't be moved for some reason, then it's up to the business to find a third alternative. Maybe they have to pay for a HEPA filter so Person A can breathe at their workstation. Maybe they have to put a senior worker out of an enclosed office so Person B's dog's fur isn't all over the place. Maybe they have to stagger A's and B's work schedules a little to minimize the amount of doggy exposure. But this won't get done unless everyone sits down and talks about it and businesses are forced to comply with that ADA regulation about reasonable accommodation. And unless people stop saying things like "Why is that dog getting more rights than me? Why does that person's asthma take precedence over my epilepsy?" because that lets businesses focus on the problem and not on the solution.
2012-06-12 07:26:02 PM  
1 vote:
So, I happen to know the farkette in question ...

The service dog is recognized by Disibility Services, which is an office under Civil Services, U.S. Dept of Education. The Farkette offered the store employees and store manager papers of this AND papers from her physician... both of which she did not have to do... but they were refused. They wanted certificates.

I think they wanted long form certificates. I think they were concerned the dog might be from Kenya.

/not subby
2012-06-12 07:16:19 PM  
1 vote:

Silly Jesus: wambu: Silly Jesus: But why does someone getting dealt a bad hand in life mean that I should be forced by the federal government to allow farm animals, among others, into my store?

Because if were you, your spouse or your child attached to that farm animal, you would expect decent treatment as well.

It's not like they punched her...they just said that it was their preference, as a private business, to not have animals. She was welcome to shop elsewhere. I don't understand why a private business shouldn't be able to make decisions concerning who they do business with and what species they want present on their property.


Agreed...

www.blogcdn.com
2012-06-12 07:06:25 PM  
1 vote:
How the fark is a dog going to help with seizures? Grab her by the crotch and shake her in the opposite directions of her own shakes? I call Bullshiat.
2012-06-12 07:00:54 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: Fun fact, If this was a place that sells food the store would get in huge trouble for the dog being there for violation of various health codes.


That's not true. There are reasonable exceptions for service animals.

Health and safety regulators know that risk can never be eliminated, only minimized. Having a few service animals come through a store that sells food is one thing. Allowing the general public to bring their pets in is another. I'd say that little kids, the walking germ incubators that they are, are just as much as a threat to public health. But you're not going to see supermarkets create child care zones and then require parents to drop their kids off there before entering the main part of the store. They can prohibit pets, though.


Calmamity: I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.


My understanding is that there is no paperwork. You can simply wake up one morning an claim that Fido can detect seizures and businesses have no way to counter your claim. You can fill out "paperwork" to order an ID vest from an online retailer, but they don't do any checks other than to see if your credit card cleared. IMHO, it is a broken system ripe for abuse.

I think service animals should have a minimal amount of socialization training, certification of their ability and should wear a government supplied ID tag stating that they're an actual service animal. Get some standards in so that you can just point to the ID tag. That should be an immediate end to any argument over its designation.
2012-06-12 06:59:15 PM  
1 vote:
Wow for some reason I didn't catch the last line of that article until I just read the article again

"We spoke with a representative from Goodwill who said that with the right paperwork they'd be happy to allow them in, but until then, their policy says no pets allowed."

Wow just complete ignorance/refusal to follow the law. And this isn't some mom and pop store with 3 employees that might be ignorant about something like this, but this is:

Goodwill Industries International is a not-for-profit organization that provides job training, employment placement services and other community-based programs for people who have a disability, lack education or job experience, or face employment challenges. Goodwill is funded by a massive network of retail thrift stores which operate as nonprofits as well.
Goodwill operates as a network of 179 independent, community-based organizations in the U.S., Canada and 14 other countries. In 2010, Goodwills collectively earned more than $4 billion, and used 84 percent of that revenue to provide employment, training and support services to more than 2.4 million individuals.[1][2]


Just... WOW
2012-06-12 06:54:53 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: Fun fact, If this was a place that sells food the store would get in huge trouble for the dog being there for violation of various health codes.


Doesn't matter, are you telling me that a blind person with a dog, can't buy groceries?
2012-06-12 06:50:59 PM  
1 vote:
I know Wal-Mart's policy is only a manager can ask, and they can ask it one time, and there's only one question they can ask, and that is "Is this a service animal?" If they say yes, then it's a service animal (even if it really isn't. It is against federal law to ask for proof. If the animal bites someone, that's a different story, and things have to be handled somehow. You can't ask for proof, period. And if you ask and then kick them out because they don't have proof, you deserve to be fired and/or sued because if you are a manager of a place and don't know/follow the basic rule of DONT ASK FOR PROOF OF SERVICE ANIMAL/DONT THROW OUT SERVICE ANIMAL then you are an idiot.
2012-06-12 06:41:52 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: Fun fact, If this was a place that sells food the store would get in huge trouble for the dog being there for violation of various health codes.


Your fact is wrong. Service animals can go anywhere the human is legally allowed to go.
2012-06-12 06:39:03 PM  
1 vote:

Jument: Rhypskallion: As a cynophobe, service dogs scare me. I would like a service panther, to eat the foul beasts please.

Seriously, this is a good point. If everyone starts taking their "service dog" everywhere, what happens to people who are allergic to dogs or afraid of dogs? There's a building at my work where perfumes and scents are prohibited because apparently someone in the building has a serious allergy. I imagine there are people out there with animal allergies on that level. What happens if one of those people has to work near someone with a service dog? I'm thinking they fight to the death, amirite?

And also seriously, business owners should be allowed IMHO to prohibit animals except for people who truly need them and they should be allowed to challenge a customer with an animal if it doesn't appear that the animal is obviously serving an important purpose. IMHO, of course. I realize that the real world is far too farked up to operate rationally. :)


see the post about invisible disabilities. Just because you can't immediately see what the dog does doesn't mean it's not something that allows the person to function better or at all. Some people would seriously abuse that as well. I have a deaf co-worker who has a service dog. Dog has a vest is well trained etc. The woman obviously has a deficit if she speaks, she has that typical deaf person accent, for lack of a better word. A security guard called her a farking whore for asking to take the dog through the regular rather than revolving door (revolving doors can seriously injure dogs so the training society prohibits taking the dog through them) Our employer (the federal government) has prohibited her bringing her service dog here every time she fulfills one of their silly little requirements they come up with another. Management doesn't show up for scheduled hearings have piled extra duties put her under known problem supervisors etc. She has a lawyer and taking it to court but the courts are so slow this is a now several years situation and the agencies lawyers have to have adequate time to prepare etc.

The book I mentioned in a previous post Until Tuesday, the author of that book needs his dog to leave his apartment, and the discrimination he faces in spite of the fact that it's illegal is appalling. Also what the first guy with a seeing eye dog had to go through. I'm sure there are a few asshats who abuse the system that's human nature but from what I've heard from the people I know with service animals and what I've read the systemic abuse of disabled who need their dogs to live some semblance of a normal life is far more prevalent.

The point about life-threatening asthma attacks is a good point. However, as another poster pointed out the well trained are also exceedingly well cared for and there's a minimal amount of dander which is what actually causes the problem. Most buildings and even airplanes have enough space that both needs can be accomodated. A lot of times the organizations that train the animals reserve the right to take the animal back if the person doesn't care for them adequately and by adequately that means the dog gets slightly overweight because they have decreased exercise due to their person being hospitalized.

Finally people who train their own, some do a good job some not. Ideally they work with a program that helps them do that. If not I don't see why there couldn't be a field test the dog has to pass to get a service dog certification or license I think that a certification program with a special vest or patch is something we as a society are capable of. Most legitimate programs require this the dog has a vest for working and when they have their "work clothes" on they are serious business but when the vest comes off they know they can be a dog greet other people, other dogs, sniff etc.
2012-06-12 06:37:48 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: Assholes ruin everything. Make the requirements looser so discrimination like this doesn't happen, and some selfish asshole will exploit it.


The thing is that there's not really a way to exploit it that has any negative impact on anyone.

One of the requirements for being able to bring a service animal into a place is that the service animal be well-behaved and not detrimental toward basic operations of the place you're in.

So, if someone brings in a service animal that's not really a service animal and it's running around barking, they can legally be required to remove the animal from the place.

If someone brings in a service animal that's not really a service animal, and it's behaving itself and just staying by its owner like service animals do, then nothing is really being harmed.

If someone wants to bring their dog to the hospital with them, and they want to call it a service animal, go right ahead as long as the dog behaves. It keeps the person happy and makes their stay in the hospital much more pleasant for them (and usually much more pleasant for all the staff who get to go into the room where the dog is :).
2012-06-12 06:29:59 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.


Actually it costs about $40 in my state to turn any pet into a service animal. You can fill out the forms right online. No animal training or verification of any sort is required. Lots of assholes around here do it so they can carry their damn dogs in their purse and other obnoxious behaviors.
2012-06-12 06:29:02 PM  
1 vote:

Usurper4: Actually guys, according to the ADA, there's no limitation on you requesting documentation. Here's what they say:

"Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability."

This doesn't mean that you don't have to be able to provide proof that your dog is a valid service animal. It's a very subtle difference...but I think that Goodwill is in the right here.


Nevermind, looks like that actually changed in 2010...
2012-06-12 06:28:01 PM  
1 vote:

Girion47: Option 1: Put pet in Cargo Hold
Option 2: Take pet in Cabin
Option 3: Is the one that you're not considering... and the most reasonable.

Drive? driving isn't reasonable when it triples travel time and cost(flying on earned miles when I do personal travel)

"Drive" would be a variant of option 3 which is to not take your farking dog on the plane.

Be clear... this is coming from a guy that has taken vacations with his dog... and only his dog. So it's not "dog hate". That said... planes are pretty unpleasant places for dogs to be... even if you don't care about the other passengers... you're being a dick to your dog. So yes... drive... or leave the dog at home. If you're career involves an inordinate amount of travel... you should probably reconsider having a dog in the first place.

Why not have a dog? I have 2, my wife doesn't travel, so it isn't like they're being boarded. You can't really leave the dog at home if you and your family are going to be on vacation for a long period of time.


House/Dog sitter, leave them with a friend, board them, send them to grandma's or plan your vacation somewhere closer and drive. Probably some other good options I haven't considered.
2012-06-12 06:27:05 PM  
1 vote:

blender61: seems rather simple really.
she gives them a chance to do the right thing,
and when they refuse she sues their arse off.
All in good conscience.

" I gave you a chance to do the right thing. You refused. Now it's going to cost you money. Bet you don't don't make that mistake again."

Since this is about principle not money, settle out of court (make them sweat a bit) for whatever you can get and add as a term of settlement that GW has to implement in writing a new service dog policy in accordance with the ADA.


Hello.

I am recruiting competent but slightly evil mediators for my new full-service mediation office. Requirements include being able to negotiate fair, voluntary and completely unbiased stipulations, while still allowing for maximum schadenfreude for the mediator and plaintiff.

Please forward me your resume and include a cover letter telling me how evil you can be and still create legally binding stips.
2012-06-12 06:17:14 PM  
1 vote:
So since this has turned into a thread about hating Goodwill, can someone recommend somewhere else to donate my clothes to? I have two hefty bags full of mostly good quality clothing that I would like to go to good use.
2012-06-12 06:16:10 PM  
1 vote:
So, reading through the article, the crux of it comes down to this:

Federal law does not require folks to show proof an animal is a service dog. State representative Jon Lundberg says places are not allowed to ask. "You can't ask to see that," says Lundberg, "This is not like 'let's see you driver's license, let's see your dog credentials.' It doesn't work that way, it wasn't designed to work that way."

So it certainly seems that Goodwill is legally in the wrong. However, I've got say that I understand why they'd want to see documentation if it isn't obvious that an animal is a helper dog. I have no doubt that there are a lot of self-entitled jerks who try to pass their dogs off as helpers just because "It's my dog and I do what I want".

Legality to the contrary, I certainly think that it's reasonable to ask for documentation when there's ambiguity, and if you are in such an ambiguous state, I think it's reasonable to carry that documentation so that you can produce it on request. It's just not that much of a burden and it deescalates any potential situations before you get to the "get out of my store!"/"Oh yeah, well I'm going to sue your asses!" sorts of nastiness that these things can spiral into.

So, yeah, the law's on your side, but I don't think that I can be.

Sorry.
2012-06-12 06:13:53 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.

Assholes ruin everything. Make the requirements looser so discrimination like this doesn't happen, and some selfish asshole will exploit it.


Hm, so who is suggesting we have less regulations about things? Might there be a large group of assholes who want to exploit loopholes?

I wouldn't mind having freaking service iguanas if that's what people want--the problem is, there isn't a National Association for Service Iguana Standards & Practices, so any fool can (or could) license a service iguana if he wanted to. Just because you genuinely have autism or anxiety and having your pet iguana around genuinely makes you feel safer or focus better, does not mean your iguana is going to behave nicely in public and not be a nightmare to everyone else.
2012-06-12 06:11:58 PM  
1 vote:

Usurper4: BackAssward: Usurper4: BackAssward:
Maybe I need to speak louder: a vest wouldn't have meant anything because the manager demanded papers, a vest would have meant bull shiat
/Clear now?

I'm thinking if the dog had been wearing a vest...no questions would have been asked...like in every other case of a service dog.

Not true, this came down from the local CEO, not just the store manager (who required papers, not a vest).

Not according to TFA...it was a representative, who I would think is responding in the sense "if they want to bring the dog in here without a vest on". Sorry, I'm just not buying this whole deal. I'm not saying the person doesn't have a disability; I'm just saying that if somebody brings a pet into a store and the pet doesn't look like a service animal, the owner should be able to show that it's a service animal. And frankly, I don't care about the interpretation of the law; as Jim_Callahand said, there are still rules about service animals.



Again, ADA law does not require a vest, and the local state rep was talked to and said this is BS. In fact, asking for certification is breaking ADA law, btw.
2012-06-12 06:08:50 PM  
1 vote:
FTA: "Although it wasn't designed that way, it's put places like Goodwill in a very tough position. With the animals not being required by law to wear a vest or dog tag, it makes it hard to tell which dog is a service dog and which isn't."

Manager: Sir/ma'am, We do not allow pets inside our store.

Sir/Ma'am: I understand but this is my service dog.

Manager: Carry on.

Now is that so hard.
2012-06-12 06:08:36 PM  
1 vote:

Cletus C.: Perhaps this has been asked, but WTF good is a dog for a person who suffers occasional seizures related to a car wreck 20 years ago?

What does the dog do? Shove its collar in her mouth? Start barking madly so nobody will miss the spectacle? Though, the barking is likely trigger a grand mal.

I assume she does not drive. If you need a dog to accompany you into the store in case of a seizure DO NOT drive, please. Unless ... is the dog trained to take over the wheel and steer her to safety?


Perhaps she suffers anxiety which is a trigger for her seizures and the dog helps control her stress levels? I await the inevitable response of 'mental issues don't count!'
2012-06-12 06:08:11 PM  
1 vote:

Rent Party: My son doesn't have much of the "social avoidance" issues that a lot of autistic kids have. He's non verbal, a complete stim freak, and is way deep into the obsessive and ritualistic behavior, but he loves to get out and explore. Of the few words he does use, "road trip" are his faves.

We thought the dog could help us keep track of him, as he's been missing a couple of times.


Give your kid some sort of radio tag, maybe? Since the thread is about dogs, there are loads of companies that make dog collars with transponders capable of giving you basic "it's this way" information that you could easily repurpose into a necklace or a hat or something.

Not that a dog is a bad idea, necessarily, the dog-as-nursemaid is a pretty common role for certain breeds (golden retrievers, for instance, are better nannies than most actual human nannies). The collar idea is cheaper, though, and gets around the problem that if the dog is following the kid, and the kid wanders off, you won't probably find the dog either.

I know the whole "stick a collar on the kid" thing might make you _feel_ like a bad parent, but it doesn't necessarily make you one. It's basically the same principle as giving them a cell phone when they're older.
2012-06-12 06:07:41 PM  
1 vote:

tuna fingers: Trolly Headline:
News: A Farkette has been forced out of a store because she has a service dog.

FALSE!
She was asked to leave because she couldn't show she had a service dog.


TRUE
Under ADA, people who have service animals are NOT required to show proof.

/Some places say that violating ADA is a class 3 felony. BTW
2012-06-12 06:05:49 PM  
1 vote:

Richard Freckle: I've known several people in the past that have worked there that have told me the employees at a particular store sorted through the stuff as it was brought in and made arrangements to either have it sold to them at a discount or just outright steal it before it hit the shelves. Most of it was resold at yard sales.

I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.


Fark had an article a bit back where a Goodwill worker, who had Down's, was fired because his mother bought a shirt for him there. It was on grounds that they didn't want the public to think the employees "got all the good stuff".
2012-06-12 06:05:07 PM  
1 vote:
Trolly Headline:
News: A Farkette has been forced out of a store because she has a service dog.

FALSE!
She was asked to leave because she couldn't show she had a service dog.
2012-06-12 05:59:48 PM  
1 vote:
Aww...boo hoo...she's special because she's a Farkette.


That means that I should give a shiat or something.
2012-06-12 05:59:05 PM  
1 vote:

BackAssward: Maybe I need to speak louder: a vest wouldn't have meant anything because the manager demanded papers, a vest would have meant bull shiat

/Clear now?


meh, with a clipboard and a hardhat people can steal entire bridges.

If the dog was in a vest, it is very likely that the manager probably would never have even thought to ask anything else.
2012-06-12 05:58:46 PM  
1 vote:

sleeps in trees: Rent Party: KatjaMouse: FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

Some dogs are trained to keep a kid with autism focused. It acts as a combination fur nanny and slobbery security blanket.

My autistic son was prone to wandering off to go exploring, sometimes at 3AM and without telling anyone. We looked into a service dog to keep him around the house or at least let us know if he was heading out. They run about $15K, though, so we just improved the locks in the place instead.

He's a full blown ninja now, but he has more space and so wanders less.

Mine went ninja at 3 I feel your pain. The pooch also stabilizes him in situations he's not used to. Unfortunately he's losing his sight early so we are getting a seeing eye dog for the aid dog.... I shiat you not.


Bummer about the sight. I have blind friends with dogs and they work wonders.

My son doesn't have much of the "social avoidance" issues that a lot of autistic kids have. He's non verbal, a complete stim freak, and is way deep into the obsessive and ritualistic behavior, but he loves to get out and explore. Of the few words he does use, "road trip" are his faves.

We thought the dog could help us keep track of him, as he's been missing a couple of times.
2012-06-12 05:57:51 PM  
1 vote:
Can we just hurry up and create service robots? We would go from "We don't allow filthy animals in here -- or your dog, either" to "Wow, cool robot!"
2012-06-12 05:57:04 PM  
1 vote:

Pincy: aspAddict: CruiserTwelve: Good non-answer.

To be fair, it DID seem like a non-question. In your case, however, it's understandable.

[sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x480]

Maybe I could just tell people that I work in IT, and therefore I have this overwhelming urge to punch people in the face. Taking my service dog, Leo, with me everywhere keeps me in a good mood and ensures that no one gets all punchified.

You're disabled enough to need a service dog. I doubt you are going to be punchifying anyone. Unless you are faking?



You can have recurring but not always present illnesses that a service animal can help you with... you don't need to be "disabled enough" to have use for one.
2012-06-12 05:55:04 PM  
1 vote:

aspAddict: CruiserTwelve: Good non-answer.

To be fair, it DID seem like a non-question. In your case, however, it's understandable.

[sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x480]

Maybe I could just tell people that I work in IT, and therefore I have this overwhelming urge to punch people in the face. Taking my service dog, Leo, with me everywhere keeps me in a good mood and ensures that no one gets all punchified.


You're disabled enough to need a service dog. I doubt you are going to be punchifying anyone. Unless you are faking?
2012-06-12 05:55:00 PM  
1 vote:

Girion47: elffster: Girion47: netweavr: Girion47: I've heard a rumor that you can claim your dog as a service companion and the airline has to let you fly with it.

Uh, closed environment and allergies... good luck with that one.

luckily my dogs are non-irritating to the allergic. Also, fark your sneezing if you think I'd risk putting my dog in a plane's cargo hold.

You sound nice.

Yes, putting an animal in a cargo hold is super kind isn't it? the air isn't heated or cooled, noises aren't dampened, the baggage areas are places of peace and tranquility, and it isn't even near possible that some jackass in a tug could park next to their crate and blast them with diesel fumes is it? All of that suffering of a living creature so that someone doesn't get the sniffles.


Or a child has an asthma attack, forcing the plane to make an medical emergency landing. But as long as your pet is comfortable, it's all worth it, right?
2012-06-12 05:53:24 PM  
1 vote:
As somebody who was once told a chihuahua in a purse was a service dog...I think there should be SOME requirement of proof....
jvl
2012-06-12 05:52:16 PM  
1 vote:
So let me handle this the exact way we would if the person involved was not a Farkette...

Entitled much? "Wah he asked me for proof." Big deal... carry some farking proof with you. "It helps you?" How about you leave the vaguely helpful and medically unnecessary dog in the car for five farking minutes."

Also, please to be making me a sammich.
2012-06-12 05:51:38 PM  
1 vote:

Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.


Yeah, this is the real problem. There should be some sort of certification of training before service animals get permission to enter places that pets aren't admitted.

Originally there was no need of this, a guide dog has to have extensive training to be of any use to it's owner (and while the owner can train some behaviors much of the training must be by a sighted individual, there are no owner-trained guide dogs) and so the issue of a poorly trained service animal simply didn't exist.

Now, however, you can have legitimate service animals with minimal training. A seizure alert dog could be the owner's own animal who simply showed an ability to detect imminent seizures and was trained with a specific alert reaction.

BarkingUnicorn: Rules were changed a year ago. Only dogs and miniature ponies can be service animals now. Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.


What about quadriplegics with monkeys? No dog or horse is nearly as versatile. (The owner has a laser pointer to tell the monkey where, the monkey only needs to have commands for what to do with whatever the owner is designating.)

BarkingUnicorn: You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?


Not all of them have. Some types of service animals, especially alert animals, need little training and anyone who knows how to train a dog can train them. Unfortunately, this means they often lack the etiquette training a service animal should have in order to be taken into no-pets areas.

RibbyK: sleeps in trees: My son as a service dog. He's autistic. The dog was not trained through a mainstream facility because it would have cost us 20k and for a child that does not bond a 2 year old dog defeats the purpose. We have been questioned but higher establishments (Chateau Whistler etc.) are amazing.

The second sentence made sense, but the words rest mixed up they are.
Son as dog? You tried to purchase a child for $20,000? US or Canadian?


You are missing the word "and" in there.

paygun: What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.


It can give them advance warning of a seizure. There's nothing the dog can do to stop it but the person can get into a safe position before they lose control.

peterthx: "Service Dog" labels are pure bullshiat. Where I work someone boasts about getting his little piece of shiat chihuahua declared a service dog just so he can take it into any restaurant or other place of business. Thing's not big enough to function as a paperweight. Utterly useless and proof the system is broken. It's BS like this that causes the doubt in the first place. Folks who abuse the system and make it harder for the legit who actually need the service animal.


Alert animals don't need size to do their job.

I do agree there is a lot of abuse, though. We need some sort of official evaluation and certification system, although for owner-trained animals I would be inclined to say that the certification can carry over--if they trained one animal properly it's reasonable to presume they'll train it's replacement(s) properly.
2012-06-12 05:51:36 PM  
1 vote:

BackAssward: swaxhog: Any service dog I've ever seen has a vest on. Just because someone comes into a store with a dog and says it's a service animal doesn't make it so. People lie. That's why the vest goes on so you can avoid the self generated drama. Dog with vest and told to leave. Then you have a lawsuit. No vest? AW.


Did you even bother to read the ADA Laws? Vests are not required, and in this case, a vest would not have been enough to satisfy the person in question, only certification (that doesn't exist).

/RTFA


Yes I know all about it. Put the farking vest on and you have no problems. Don't put it on and you're just an attention whore going from store to store just WAITING for someone to challenge you so you can get all butthurt and whine on the Internet how DEGRADED you were for being told to leave. Which is exactly what I said in the first place.

No vest and now you're in a war of words. b-b-but I don't need a vest. No, you don't but you'll get asked to leave. You'll stir up some drama to make you feel good. Probably even get the store to apologize for doing nothing but keeping the store clean and safe from the steady flow of idiots who bring their dogs with no identification and use the 'service dog' card.

Sorry, no sympathy for this person at all.
2012-06-12 05:49:03 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.


Good non-answer.
2012-06-12 05:47:37 PM  
1 vote:

Snarfangel: cretinbob: Goodwill is almost as big a scam as Salvation Army

I don't know about the Salvation Army, but you do not want to fark with the Salvation Marines.


If you just want to get really baked, you can join the Salvation Peace Corps. You can even bring your dog.
2012-06-12 05:46:39 PM  
1 vote:

MilesTeg: Seems like another BS law designed just to make lawyers wealthy.

Sorry for your disablement whatever it is but that does not mean you should be able to impose on everyone else. It's not our fault. Play the cards you are dealt.


/dog owner


So, disabled people should play their cards and not take advantage of the help a service animal can provide?

/Words of wisdom indeed.
2012-06-12 05:41:12 PM  
1 vote:
I work on a military installation, and there is a lot of rumble about the PTSD companion dogs. The training is lighter, as they are taught companionship and elementary obedience. They are not trained to the level of what we used to call 'service dogs'.

It looks like people with the original type of service dog are feeling the brunt of this new distrust.
2012-06-12 05:37:22 PM  
1 vote:

CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?


Any service dog I've ever seen has a vest on. Just because someone comes into a store with a dog and says it's a service animal doesn't make it so. People lie. That's why the vest goes on so you can avoid the self generated drama. Dog with vest and told to leave. Then you have a lawsuit. No vest? AW.
2012-06-12 05:36:42 PM  
1 vote:
I take a shiatload of stuff to Goodwill. We always seem to have a steady stream of household goods and clothing that we want to get rid of easily. We're too lazy to bother selling it so I take it to Goodwill for the tax deduction. Last year we did a couple of huge clean-ups and ended up donating >$3k worth of stuff (valued according to IRS guidelines). That's a fair bit of change on our tax return.

I've heard all kinds of stories about Goodwill. Is there a "better" place I can donate all of our old shiat and still get tax deductions for it?
2012-06-12 05:34:42 PM  
1 vote:
Some friends trained dogs for the International Guiding Eye, which is a service that places dogs with a person who needs one.

So, they had trained about 7 dogs, one made it to being a guide dog, and one had come very close to being chosen for deeper training, but was rejected. This I learned is about average for pass/fail ratios.

That last dog was Jackson. So, Jackson had been rejected because he failed a test - they shot off a gun and he went to investigate what the noise was.

A guide dog wont do that. There are lots of things a tried and true guide dog will do and not do.

A guide dog wont hike its leg. How would someone who is blind and walking it not get get by a splash of pee? Jackson was male but he would squat to pee.

Jackson would also poop on command. You know thats the coolest thing ever, because you can basically have him do his thing and then you know you can leave them alone for a while. But, since he was a failed guide dog and more or less the family pet, he would also chill by the door and bark until you let him out.

He was very quiet, and was good about walking on a leash, of course. And he expected to go everywhere you went, because he was trained as soon as he was a tiny puppy that thats what he did - go everywhere.

And he ate anything except green olives. Even lettuce and crap you would not think a dog would like. He was pretty bad about begging.


A guide dog is something that has had a lot (a LOT) of training. I dont know about any dogs for PTSD veterans or epileptic folks, but one for a blind person has had (by the time it makes it to graduation) about 2 years of literally all its waking hours being trained to do what it does, as far as I recall about that.

Guide dogs need to have a license that says its a real guide dog. Then no one could complain about it. And less folks would try to scam their way into carrying a chihuahua (not really suited to being a guide dog at all, imo) around.
2012-06-12 05:34:09 PM  
1 vote:
I have a friend who works at a Goodwill. She says she has to clean up human shiat in the aisles at least once a week.
2012-06-12 05:33:56 PM  
1 vote:
I have a friend who trains service dogs. One of the problems she constantly runs into is people claiming their dogs are service animals and they often have obviously forged documents. The last time this happened it was on a bus when some asshole had an unneutered aggressive pitbull that was trying to attack her service dog in training. Given my friend's experiences, I think you should be required to carry proper documents (perhaps a service dog license) and false documents should result in a very hefty fine.

/yes, I know that pit bulls aren't the problem. It's assholes who own pitbulls
2012-06-12 05:31:54 PM  
1 vote:

skullkrusher: kvinesknows: skullkrusher: seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?

who pays for the service tag enforcement?

what's there to pay for?

"Sorry, ma'am, no dogs allowed."
"This is a service animal."
*checks tag if interested*
"Your story checks out, happy shopping"


people using illegal tags.
forcing people to have tags.
anything else some stupid politician would think up
2012-06-12 05:28:35 PM  
1 vote:

elffster: Girion47: netweavr: Girion47: I've heard a rumor that you can claim your dog as a service companion and the airline has to let you fly with it.

Uh, closed environment and allergies... good luck with that one.

luckily my dogs are non-irritating to the allergic. Also, fark your sneezing if you think I'd risk putting my dog in a plane's cargo hold.

You sound nice.


Yes, putting an animal in a cargo hold is super kind isn't it? the air isn't heated or cooled, noises aren't dampened, the baggage areas are places of peace and tranquility, and it isn't even near possible that some jackass in a tug could park next to their crate and blast them with diesel fumes is it? All of that suffering of a living creature so that someone doesn't get the sniffles.
2012-06-12 05:26:49 PM  
1 vote:

Richard Freckle: I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.


You might want to research AmVets and similar organizations. Link and Link.

Any assessment may be biased of course, but doesn't hurt to investigate a bit before donating.
2012-06-12 05:24:55 PM  
1 vote:
FTMFA:

We spoke with a representative from Goodwill who said that with the right paperwork they'd be happy to allow them in, but until then, their policy says no pets allowed.


Well.......i've been known to gamble on occasion and I can say pretty confidently they'll lose that bet.

Farm them and their United Way ties. Whatever happened to real charity?
2012-06-12 05:23:16 PM  
1 vote:
Why is Fark becoming an outlet for whiny rants? Keep that stuff amongst the friends that humor you by making you believe they actually care?

Subby says he/she and his/her husband went to Goodwill. Did you both need the service dog? Why couldn't the good one just help the busted one?

But really - keep this stuff on the Facebook profile everyone avoids like the plague, because one of the most important rules to happiness is eliminating from your life those who whine and complain.
2012-06-12 05:21:40 PM  
1 vote:

Richard Freckle: I've known several people in the past that have worked there that have told me the employees at a particular store sorted through the stuff as it was brought in and made arrangements to either have it sold to them at a discount or just outright steal it before it hit the shelves. Most of it was resold at yard sales.

I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.


Let's not pretend that many if not most donors are doing it for altruistic reasons either. Most are just wanting to get rid of old junk and get some tax write offs. Yes I am one of them and so do most folks.

When I do something 'good' it wouldn't be my donations to Goodwill. I typically donate or give $$ directly to said individuals or an organization.
2012-06-12 05:21:03 PM  
1 vote:
The last store i worked at we were told to never ask any questions about any animal that was brought in for fear of a lawsuit (even thought the store had a no pets policy) They basically figured that dealing with a few people who brought their pets in and the associated mess was cheaper and easier to deal with than one lawsuit. Made sense to me and rarely had a bad problem. Mostly just dogs pooping and peeing on the floor.
2012-06-12 05:20:59 PM  
1 vote:

skullkrusher: ha-ha-guy: The current service dog laws are permissive. There isn't really some gold standard where the dog gets a patch to wear and has to wear them (by law the dog doesn't have to wear them).

that's the point. Why not have something simple like a tag that identifies the animal as a service animal?


Agreed.. but there is no such thing. Some places offer them, but nothing makes them *official*. There is no 'official' tag or certification at present.

So under the current laws, goodwill farked up, badly.
2012-06-12 05:20:21 PM  
1 vote:

BackAssward: paygun: What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.

A person who has seizures can fall and hurt themselves (lets say stairs for example), a dog that can detect it 45seconds in advance and warn the person, that helps a lot.

/Yes, they can do that.


Yeah, we had a mutt named Rufus (yes, after Carlin's character) with seizures and a golden retriever/yellow lab mix that was his buddy. The lab mix would howl the most blood curdling and bone chilling howl right before Rufus would have a seizure. First time it happened we ran out to see what was wrong, and saw him just twitching on the ground.

Nothing helped poor Rufus though, and we had to eventually put him down, when despite medication, he had a seizure that broke his spine and paralyzed him from the waist down.

//Excuse me while I go have a sad about my not so CSB now.
2012-06-12 05:18:34 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: "About a month ago my husband and I went to the Goodwill, and we were approached by their supervisor and were told that we had to leave or show certification or documentation for the dog," said Holowka.

If you don't want to sue all of Goodwill, you should at least get a resignation from that genius supervisor.

Normally, it's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.


Fixed that for you.

I have come across some dogs that have no indication they are service animals, and given the behavior issues should have been restricted even if they really are service animals. Generally (almost always) it is the owner's fault.

CSB time:

I was on the train a couple months ago and one lady (CL*) started being verbally abusive to another passenger. Just after she got onto the crowded train she lost her balance (she wasn't holding on despite having a handle within 12" of her) when the train started. She ended up hitting another passenger in the face and "apologized". The other passenger didn't say or do anything, she was obviously upset and in pain. At that point CL started demanding that the other passenger accept her apology. She just continued to ignore the CL and then got off the train a couple stops later, she did comment to another passenger that it really hurt.

During CL's rant about the other passenger being "rude" a couple other passengers looked sideways at her dog which was laying down in the middle of the train. She blew up and started yelling at them too. "My dog is a service dog! You can't ask me to take the dog off! You can't ask me if the dog is a service dog or not! blah blah blah". No one had asked a single question or made a single comment about it, just looked at the dog taking up enough space for 3 people in a crowded train. She ended up calling the cops and saying she was being harassed and she wanted them arrested for trying to kick her dog off the train.

*Choose your own meaning for this acronym.

/Several people made the comment (to CL) that they didn't have any problems with the dog on the train, but wished she wasn't allowed on... that went over real well. It was after she had the police on the phone.
//A couple people said they had seen her do that before too. Riding the train is always an adventure.
2012-06-12 05:18:06 PM  
1 vote:

scottydoesntknow: nekom: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

Yeah it's pretty obvious, AND who in the world would fake such a thing just to get to take their dog into a store?

Umm a hell of a lot of people, especially those that think their pet is their kid and is therefore allowed everywhere they are.


THIS.

"Service Dog" labels are pure bullshiat. Where I work someone boasts about getting his little piece of shiat chihuahua declared a service dog just so he can take it into any restaurant or other place of business. Thing's not big enough to function as a paperweight. Utterly useless and proof the system is broken. It's BS like this that causes the doubt in the first place. Folks who abuse the system and make it harder for the legit who actually need the service animal.
2012-06-12 05:17:37 PM  
1 vote:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Having worked for Goodwill (yes, really), I'm not surprised. Ignorance is a virtue in that company, and the consistent preaching of prosperity gospel to the homeless (in a battered women's shelter nonetheless) just had me sick.

And, most of the money earned through those stores gets shuffled up to administration and the United Way lobbying projects. (The network was completely unsecured and after pointing it out to HR, I was told to not worry about it because it was "unhackable". The result was that I read EVERYTHING the program director read for almost a year - grant applications, revenue projections, HR issues, and directives from above)

Let the bastards burn.


I know a guy that has worked for Goodwill for years. Clearly, what you said is true, because damn that boy is ignorant AND preachy.
2012-06-12 05:16:16 PM  
1 vote:

paygun: What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.


A person who has seizures can fall and hurt themselves (lets say stairs for example), a dog that can detect it 45seconds in advance and warn the person, that helps a lot.

/Yes, they can do that.
2012-06-12 05:15:09 PM  
1 vote:

paygun: What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.


They let them know when an attack is coming... so they can sit down... or stop driving... or land the plane... etc
2012-06-12 05:14:34 PM  
1 vote:
That sucks.

But you know what sucks more? The stupid morons printing off their own fake certifications for "service" animals.

They're gonna screw a whole lot of people out of being able to bring a legitimate service animal into a store.
2012-06-12 05:12:28 PM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: Rules were changed a year ago. Only dogs and miniature ponies can be service animals now. Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.


They're using seeing eye ponies because minitaure horses live longer than dogs and have a much wider range of vision. They even make little booties for their hooves.
2012-06-12 05:11:44 PM  
1 vote:
What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.
2012-06-12 05:10:47 PM  
1 vote:

houndoggie: netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

what if the dog shiats or pisses on the stores floor. Is the disabled person required to clean it up? What if the dog bites some one? Is the person liable for the dogs actions?


A "real" service animal has been quite well trained to only void its waste in certain places and socialized not to bite unless attacked.
2012-06-12 05:10:27 PM  
1 vote:

skullkrusher: seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?


The current service dog laws are permissive. There isn't really some gold standard where the dog gets a patch to wear and has to wear them (by law the dog doesn't have to wear them).

However, for everyone saying Goodwill is farked, ADA 1990 says:

Under the ADA, businesses are permitted to deny access to service dogs that are not behaving properly. They may also be excluded if the presence of the animal constitutes a fundamental alteration of the business or poses a direct threat.

So assuming the dog did something. Goodwill had the right to punt the dog. Unless of course ADA was updated since 1990.

/too lazy to Google that, about to head home anyway
2012-06-12 05:09:07 PM  
1 vote:
I like the idea of a placard for your service dog. Until that happens, though, Goodwill needs to do some serious butt kissing.
2012-06-12 05:07:39 PM  
1 vote:
So if people aren't required to provide proof of their animal being a service dog, what stops people from bringing any animal into businesses and claiming they're a service dog?
2012-06-12 05:07:20 PM  
1 vote:

KatjaMouse: FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

Some dogs are trained to keep a kid with autism focused. It acts as a combination fur nanny and slobbery security blanket.


My autistic son was prone to wandering off to go exploring, sometimes at 3AM and without telling anyone. We looked into a service dog to keep him around the house or at least let us know if he was heading out. They run about $15K, though, so we just improved the locks in the place instead.

He's a full blown ninja now, but he has more space and so wanders less.
2012-06-12 05:05:59 PM  
1 vote:
I used to do volunteer work at a non-chain thrift store. 90% of what gets donated goes right into the dumpster because it is too old, too filthy, or simply a bunch of broken junk. Now and then we'd get a load of really good stuff, brand new designer clothes with tags still on them, NIB 2 generations old electronics, etc., but by and large what comes in via donation is garage sale quality. Yes, employees get first dibs on stuff, but they paid regular thrift store prices for it because honestly there was almost never anything worth stealing.
2012-06-12 05:04:34 PM  
1 vote:
Honestly I've been seeing a lot of "service dogs" for things like stress and the like. By service dog I mean mutt that runs around and pisses on things while acting up, and clearly has no training. When told to get the damn thing out of here, the owner screams about it being a service dog.

I assume if the trend continues pretty soon you will need to carry an ID or something marking your dog as an actual trained and certified service dog.

/by "a lot", I mean two over the last five years
//still we're all painting with broad strokes here
/my main question is what prompted the manager to approach the person and what the dog might have done to prompt that approach
2012-06-12 05:03:55 PM  
1 vote:

Psycoholic_Slag: The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.

Ok, I don't really have a dog in this fight (heh) but you did not answer the question. Does the dog have a uniform or name tag? Seeing eye dogs are pretty obvious but what about the emotional support pets? How are they "very, very easy to differntiate" from just a pet on a leash?


I'd also like an answer to that question. Before I had her killed for being old and feeble (take note Mom and Dad!), my dog was very well behaved and just sat at my feet anytime I stopped moving. Could I have taken here anywhere I wanted by saying she was a service animal and getting all huffy when people dared to ask?
2012-06-12 05:02:47 PM  
1 vote:

cretinbob: Goodwill is almost as big a scam as Salvation Army


Don't you mean United Way?
2012-06-12 05:02:26 PM  
1 vote:
Service dog? well, hell, quite ridin' it around in the store!

/hope ya got a saddle for that pup..........
2012-06-12 05:02:25 PM  
1 vote:
gianthamster.com

Here's me and some of my bros chilling with my service dog. I take him everywhere, to the beach, to the movies, to shallow river deltas to forage on soft plants. He never barks or growls at anybody.
2012-06-12 05:00:56 PM  
1 vote:

AmazinTim: Her service dog honey makes things a little easier

mmmmmm... dog honey


Glad to know I wasn't the only one rolling at that one.
2012-06-12 05:00:36 PM  
1 vote:
This smacks of ... uh... something.

"Service Dog" seems like a loose term. Maybe someone else ruined it before you got there? Maybe you seemed fine to operate without it's help?

To put it bluntly to service-ees, if you can afford the dog, you can afford the vest that goes with it. Also, any dog is only as good as it's owner. If the dog's discipline is maintained, then there should be no problems. I have seen a service dog firsthand go to shiat after a not even a year of improper usage/training/discipline. My friend that went blind pissed that away. Logan, no! No!

sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

[24.media.tumblr.com image 432x425]


It's a troll, but that would be a good example of why people may be upset if you walk in a store and insist your service dog is your legal right.

Real question - not trollin': exactly what is a service dog going to do to prevent your epileptic seizures, and what exactly will it do if you actually are having an epileptic seizure? Dial amberlamps?
2012-06-12 05:00:26 PM  
1 vote:

papatex: Reminds me of the time a 350+ pound lady came through the airport with her


?????

I don't know what just happened here...but I'm a little
2012-06-12 05:00:18 PM  
1 vote:

Silly Jesus: This horse is my service animal. Federal law says that you must let me in your private business or I'll sue you.

/ADA is a bunch of hooey.



It's not a bunch of hooey, there are very good reasons for the ADA... and I'm glad to see quite a bit of it. It's just some of the provisions were written poorly. But MOST laws in recent years that have oozed out of congress have been written poorly, so there's nothing especially egregious about that. That's what happens when we just largely keep electing the same bunch of guys and their buddies, year after year, and letting them pass laws they don't read that were written by lobbyists because they actually now spend most of their time fundraising and not lawmaking.
2012-06-12 04:58:14 PM  
1 vote:

Alphakronik: Kind of like fat people and their medicaid paid-for hooverounds.


Well she didn't have her own but I saw a guy pull up his mini van to the spot directly across from the food store exit, gets out of driver seat, jogs into store -- dozens of people mulling around, in and out of the store -- he rides one of those store 'service' uh... what are they even called, motorized carts or wheelchairs, but he pulls it up along side his passenger seat...

Looked about the size of the thing sweetmelissa just posted. And she gets out of the car -- and he's lifting the arm rests on the motor scooter cuz she can't fit her fat ass between the arms -- oops they're going to have to redesign, they didn't think someone's ass could be that goddamn fat.

And... i can't help but hope she gets heart disease and dies, painfully, slowly, and alone. She musta been at least 400 pounds. Why would anyone -- oh crap, here comes the 'SHE WAS BORN THAT WAY!' crowd

STOP. EATING. SO. MUCH.

/WORKS, GUARANTEED
2012-06-12 04:57:54 PM  
1 vote:

FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?


Some dogs are trained to keep a kid with autism focused. It acts as a combination fur nanny and slobbery security blanket.
2012-06-12 04:56:33 PM  
1 vote:

palladiate: Actually that was changed last year. Only dogs and miniature horses qualify now. And they have to specifically trained for assistance.


I thought that ferrets and rats were really easy to train and especially sensitive to pick up signs for epilepsy.
2012-06-12 04:55:10 PM  
1 vote:

CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?


Working dogs generally don't sniff around on every damn thing or lick their nuts while they're supposed to be working.

"This is not like let's see you driver's license, let's see your dog credentials. It doesn't work that way, it wasn't designed to work that way."


Well, it should have been. "Service animal" abuse has reached ridiculous levels, where every lonely fatty and her "companion" roll into the restaurant where I've got to put up with the smell.

There needs to be a certification program for service dogs. It's better for the dogs, and more importantly, it's better for me.
2012-06-12 04:55:10 PM  
1 vote:

TravisBickle62: gambitsgirl: This country is so farked up. So, say someone takes a NON service dog into a store but says it's a service dog and it bites someone or shiats somewhere. That's ok, right?

I had a supposed "service dog" ejaculate on my pancakes at an IHOP once, turns out it wasn't even a service dog.


It wasn't even a dog.
2012-06-12 04:55:09 PM  
1 vote:

sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

[24.media.tumblr.com image 432x425]


That is no dog, it is a sea lion.
2012-06-12 04:53:15 PM  
1 vote:
I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?
2012-06-12 04:52:31 PM  
1 vote:

TravisBickle62: gambitsgirl: This country is so farked up. So, say someone takes a NON service dog into a store but says it's a service dog and it bites someone or shiats somewhere. That's ok, right?

I had a supposed "service dog" ejaculate on my pancakes at an IHOP once, turns out it wasn't even a service dog.


It was an NBA player wasn't it?
2012-06-12 04:52:06 PM  
1 vote:
"Pray for Mojo"
2012-06-12 04:51:36 PM  
1 vote:
Was the dog servicing her at the time?
2012-06-12 04:51:20 PM  
1 vote:
pics of the alleged farkette or gtfo
2012-06-12 04:51:10 PM  
1 vote:
edge.ebaumsworld.com

fat dog thread?
2012-06-12 04:50:58 PM  
1 vote:

TravisBickle62: I have a hard time getting worked up about this, the dog couldn't have stayed outside?


The dog could have been stolen... but, what the fark is the point of having a service animal, if it doesn't go with you, genius?
2012-06-12 04:50:38 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: BarkingUnicorn: Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.

My sister had assistant pony, my cousin had assistant pony, ..So, what's wrong with that?


encrypted-tbn2.google.com

This thread is now a pony thread.
2012-06-12 04:50:18 PM  
1 vote:
Deseret Industries laughs at your shenanigans.

Say what you want about Mormons... but they buy neat stuff and replace it often.

/I have hardcover "Book of Mormon"s in 39 Launguages...
//My prized Mormon artifact pictured below... though mine is a first edition.

photo.goodreads.com
2012-06-12 04:49:52 PM  
1 vote:

houndoggie:
what if the dog is black?


Then you have to show the long form birth certificate.
2012-06-12 04:49:49 PM  
1 vote:

Jackson Herring: is there an actual flame war about farking service animals in this thread?


Not really. Pretty much everyone agrees you shouldn't fark service animals.
2012-06-12 04:48:34 PM  
1 vote:
If i had a disability that you couldn't really notice and had to have a service dog, I would have the mind to carry some sort of offiicial document saying so to avoid these cases. Just saiyan.
2012-06-12 04:44:59 PM  
1 vote:
I have a hard time getting worked up about this, the dog couldn't have stayed outside?
2012-06-12 04:39:21 PM  
1 vote:

AmazinTim: Her service dog honey makes things a little easier

mmmmmm... dog honey


And this is why capitalization of proper nouns is so important. It's the difference between:
1. I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse
2. I helped my uncle jack off his horse

/my mom's bf seriously considered getting his pug a service dog collar, so they could go into places like the post office
//common sense prevailed
2012-06-12 04:28:48 PM  
1 vote:
You shouldn't have your dog service you in public.
2012-06-12 03:21:52 PM  
1 vote:
You know- the reshould be tags for the animals. There are legitimate health reasons why animals are limited from businesses.
2012-06-12 03:06:45 PM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: Diogenes: houndoggie: ...

You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?


No kidding. I know that in Tennessee, there is not a government office that accredites or certifies training schools. The certification comes from the schools themselves... any school. I could make a school today and the certification from "Cowgirl Toffees' Service Dog School" would be just as legitimate as a certification from a school that has been open for years. So if a consumer plops down $20,000 for a service dog and that dog only knows how to stay, heel, and sit pretty, there is no office they could go to. They can do nothing if the dog does not preform a service for the disabled individual. So for the consumer... it is needed.

Just to point out... the United States says an individual can train their own service dog. This allows the individual to customize the training. Also, it is hard to find some schools that train for some services (like seizure detection and help with PTSD for example).

This doesn't mean the business owners are in the shiater. They do not have to put up with every dog in that claims service dog but isn't. They can ask if the dog is for a disability and what task the dog has been trained to do. Also... the business owner can ask the dog to leave if it is a threat to others, if it is out of control, or if it is not housebroken.
2012-06-12 02:57:29 PM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: R.A.Danny: Federal law does not require folks to show proof an animal is a service dog.
State Representative Jon Lundberg says places are not allowed to ask.


Stick a fork in 'em.

Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.

Rules were changed a year ago. Only dogs and miniature ponies can be service animals now. Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.


This is not entirely true. That is simply a recommendation/guideline by the DoJ regarding ADA compliance. States are free to allow other animals. Link
2012-06-12 02:50:14 PM  
1 vote:
Could you have, say, a service-sheep for erectile dysfunction?
2012-06-12 02:47:41 PM  
1 vote:

houndoggie: BackAssward: Diogenes: So why not just add a blurb or code on the tag that says "service animal"? That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Reasonable or not, it's NOT what the current laws say, so a moot point at this point.

/and those tags should then be free to the poor disabled, right?

most dogs have to be registered with the county. It costs (here) $5 a year if the pet is neutered. The county could just add SA (service animal) to the tags number.



Not here... and that still wouldn't be enough for some people anyway (yes, people I've dealt with personally).
2012-06-12 02:45:57 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: houndoggie: Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.

handicapped people are required to hang tags or have handicap plates to allow them to park in the handicap spots (while making handicapped faces). I see no difference in having the service dog have a scarf or vest that designates its role.

I'm not arguing one way or the other. Just offering a possible rationale.

Auto tags may be a bit different in that, if abused, excludes the handicapped from something intended for them. Different scenario altogether.

But that then makes me think of pet tags. If you take your pet out in public, aren't you required to have a license tag for them regardless of whether it's a service animal? So why not just add a blurb or code on the tag that says "service animal"? That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.


I really don't want my face that close to your pet's face. How about YOU carry the animal's photo ID and show it on demand?
2012-06-12 02:45:29 PM  
1 vote:

BackAssward: Diogenes: So why not just add a blurb or code on the tag that says "service animal"? That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Reasonable or not, it's NOT what the current laws say, so a moot point at this point.

/and those tags should then be free to the poor disabled, right?


most dogs have to be registered with the county. It costs (here) $5 a year if the pet is neutered. The county could just add SA (service animal) to the tags number.
2012-06-12 02:45:24 PM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?


Boy, there's just no winning with you people. How dare I try to see both sides of an issue!

I guess I'll just stop posting.
2012-06-12 02:43:26 PM  
1 vote:

houndoggie: But yes, I agree that is reasonable and would prevent a lot of confusion.


If only there was a government body to oversee this... which there isn't.
2012-06-12 02:43:23 PM  
1 vote:

BackAssward: Diogenes: So why not just add a blurb or code on the tag that says "service animal"? That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Reasonable or not, it's NOT what the current laws say, so a moot point at this point.

/and those tags should then be free to the poor disabled, right?


Why do you seem to getting angry with me? I get what the law says. I was just musing. And yes, they should be free.
2012-06-12 02:38:29 PM  
1 vote:
Why? Were you breastfeeding, Subby?
2012-06-12 02:37:28 PM  
1 vote:

R.A.Danny: Federal law does not require folks to show proof an animal is a service dog.
State Representative Jon Lundberg says places are not allowed to ask.


Stick a fork in 'em.


Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.


Rules were changed a year ago. Only dogs and miniature ponies can be service animals now. Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.
2012-06-12 02:30:09 PM  
1 vote:

sweetmelissa31: James!: sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

[24.media.tumblr.com image 432x425]

What is wrong with that dog's leg?

It needs its own service dog :(


img826.imageshack.us

They can help each other. They can do it!
2012-06-12 02:29:08 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.


Yeah it's pretty obvious, AND who in the world would fake such a thing just to get to take their dog into a store?
2012-06-12 02:24:02 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: palladiate: Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.

Actually that was changed last year. Only dogs and miniature horses qualify now. And they have to specifically trained for assistance.

This is bad news...for my helper monkey.


I got rid of my helper monkey last October. It was an expensive divorce, but quick. Been auditioning a few candidates of late.
2012-06-12 02:14:45 PM  
1 vote:

Richard Freckle: I've known several people in the past that have worked there that have told me the employees at a particular store sorted through the stuff as it was brought in and made arrangements to either have it sold to them at a discount or just outright steal it before it hit the shelves. Most of it was resold at yard sales.

I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.


Yup, membership has it's privileges...
2012-06-12 02:10:52 PM  
1 vote:

sweetmelissa31: Whatever, my service animal always takes me and my red headed son where we need to be


by which you mean you literally ride him
2012-06-12 02:09:38 PM  
1 vote:
i.ytimg.com
Doze yo doeg biyet?
2012-06-12 02:09:14 PM  
1 vote:

houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?


netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?


Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.
2012-06-12 02:07:50 PM  
1 vote:

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?


what if the dog shiats or pisses on the stores floor. Is the disabled person required to clean it up? What if the dog bites some one? Is the person liable for the dogs actions?
2012-06-12 01:59:08 PM  
1 vote:

palladiate: Calmamity: On the other hand, I spoke to a blind woman once who told me that there are no real rules about what is and isn't a service animal, so if you have-- for example-- debilitating obesity you can fill out the paperwork claiming that your boa constrictor is your service animal and voila! It is.

It pissed my blind friend off that pretty much anyone can get anything designated a service animal.

Actually that was changed last year. Only dogs and miniature horses qualify now. And they have to specifically trained for assistance.


This is bad news...for my helper monkey.
2012-06-12 01:56:26 PM  
1 vote:
Jeez, that sucks.

Richard Freckle: I've known several people in the past that have worked there that have told me the employees at a particular store sorted through the stuff as it was brought in and made arrangements to either have it sold to them at a discount or just outright steal it before it hit the shelves. Most of it was resold at yard sales.

I'd never drop anything off at a goodwill and I'd never buy there either. I'm sure the other stores like it have similar problems, but I'd rather donate to AmVets.


I donated lotsa stuff to Goodwill earlier this year...now I feel like crap. :(

/will check out AmVets in the future
2012-06-12 01:54:46 PM  
1 vote:

James!: What is wrong with that dog's leg?


Prolly a Bassett Hound mix.. They have funky front leg joints..
2012-06-12 01:47:29 PM  
1 vote:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: The network was completely unsecured and after pointing it out to HR, I was told to not worry about it because it was "unhackable"


Nothing inspires black-hat hackers more than someone using the term 'unhackable.'
 
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