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(WCYB News 5)   News: A Farkette has been forced out of a store because she has a service dog. Fark: The store was Goodwill Inc., an organization that claims to champion the disabled   (wcyb.com) divider line 759
    More: Sad, Goodwill Inc., service dog, service animal, Lundberg, non-profit organizations, discrimination  
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16345 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2012 at 4:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-12 05:00:18 PM  

Silly Jesus: This horse is my service animal. Federal law says that you must let me in your private business or I'll sue you.

/ADA is a bunch of hooey.



It's not a bunch of hooey, there are very good reasons for the ADA... and I'm glad to see quite a bit of it. It's just some of the provisions were written poorly. But MOST laws in recent years that have oozed out of congress have been written poorly, so there's nothing especially egregious about that. That's what happens when we just largely keep electing the same bunch of guys and their buddies, year after year, and letting them pass laws they don't read that were written by lobbyists because they actually now spend most of their time fundraising and not lawmaking.
 
2012-06-12 05:00:26 PM  

papatex: Reminds me of the time a 350+ pound lady came through the airport with her


?????

I don't know what just happened here...but I'm a little
 
2012-06-12 05:00:28 PM  
Girion47

netweavr:
Girion47: I've heard a rumor that you can claim your dog as a service companion and the airline has to let you fly with it.

Uh, closed environment and allergies... good luck with that one.


According to the internet, you're right.

Apologies unless the internet lied to me.
 
2012-06-12 05:00:36 PM  
This smacks of ... uh... something.

"Service Dog" seems like a loose term. Maybe someone else ruined it before you got there? Maybe you seemed fine to operate without it's help?

To put it bluntly to service-ees, if you can afford the dog, you can afford the vest that goes with it. Also, any dog is only as good as it's owner. If the dog's discipline is maintained, then there should be no problems. I have seen a service dog firsthand go to shiat after a not even a year of improper usage/training/discipline. My friend that went blind pissed that away. Logan, no! No!

sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side

[24.media.tumblr.com image 432x425]


It's a troll, but that would be a good example of why people may be upset if you walk in a store and insist your service dog is your legal right.

Real question - not trollin': exactly what is a service dog going to do to prevent your epileptic seizures, and what exactly will it do if you actually are having an epileptic seizure? Dial amberlamps?
 
2012-06-12 05:00:42 PM  
I bet SHE DIDNT SEE THAT COMING


/reads article
//meh. I'll leave anyway because my local radio station just started playing Nickelback. If I have to suffer so do you.
 
2012-06-12 05:00:56 PM  

AmazinTim: Her service dog honey makes things a little easier

mmmmmm... dog honey


Glad to know I wasn't the only one rolling at that one.
 
2012-06-12 05:00:56 PM  

rockforever: sweetmelissa31: They were suspicious because my service dog was a little on the hefty side



Yeah I wouldnt let you in either. Not because you're disabled, but because you've disabled that dog you witch. Wow. Take care of your animals.


This. There is an old saying that if your dog is overweight then you aren't getting enough exercise.
 
2012-06-12 05:01:08 PM  
My son as a service dog. He's autistic. The dog was not trained through a mainstream facility because it would have cost us 20k and for a child that does not bond a 2 year old dog defeats the purpose. We have been questioned but higher establishments (Chateau Whistler etc.) are amazing.
 
2012-06-12 05:01:30 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?


The dog does math.
 
2012-06-12 05:02:25 PM  
gianthamster.com

Here's me and some of my bros chilling with my service dog. I take him everywhere, to the beach, to the movies, to shallow river deltas to forage on soft plants. He never barks or growls at anybody.
 
2012-06-12 05:02:26 PM  
Service dog? well, hell, quite ridin' it around in the store!

/hope ya got a saddle for that pup..........
 
2012-06-12 05:02:46 PM  
A guy I know once traveled cross-country to move, and didn't want to spend the whole time at campsites, so he had a dog vest silkscreened with a fictitious animal-training logo for his dog. He stopped at a hotel for the night, and the desk clerk asked him for verification of the dog's service-animal status. He said "this dog is in training, and it's illegal for you to ask that," The clerk consulted with his supervisor, who said she'd put him in a handicapped room. He said "I'm a trainer, not a dog recipient." The supervisor then asked what would happen if the dog pooped or vomited in a room. "What do you do when a child does that? I'd clean it up," he said. Not sure who to root for in this context.
 
2012-06-12 05:02:47 PM  

cretinbob: Goodwill is almost as big a scam as Salvation Army


Don't you mean United Way?
 
2012-06-12 05:02:48 PM  
Wait a minute...I have a dog...I have epilepsy...Bring my dog to work or anywhere I go?

I think I just made my life awesome.
 
2012-06-12 05:02:55 PM  
markie_farkie
... What's wrong with that dog's leg?

Prolly a Bassett Hound mix.. They have funky front leg joints.

My dachshund's legs do that, due to the extra weight he carries.
 
2012-06-12 05:02:59 PM  
I can see the store's point as well as the customer's.

Given that there are douchey people that will wrongly claim their pet is a service dog just to feel important that they have their pet in the store.

So what's the solution?
 
2012-06-12 05:03:01 PM  

netweavr: Girion47: I've heard a rumor that you can claim your dog as a service companion and the airline has to let you fly with it.

Uh, closed environment and allergies... good luck with that one.


luckily my dogs are non-irritating to the allergic. Also, fark your sneezing if you think I'd risk putting my dog in a plane's cargo hold.
 
2012-06-12 05:03:37 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.


You do realize that if a psychologist tells you to get a pet, that counts as a service animal, right?
 
2012-06-12 05:03:55 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.

Ok, I don't really have a dog in this fight (heh) but you did not answer the question. Does the dog have a uniform or name tag? Seeing eye dogs are pretty obvious but what about the emotional support pets? How are they "very, very easy to differntiate" from just a pet on a leash?


I'd also like an answer to that question. Before I had her killed for being old and feeble (take note Mom and Dad!), my dog was very well behaved and just sat at my feet anytime I stopped moving. Could I have taken here anywhere I wanted by saying she was a service animal and getting all huffy when people dared to ask?
 
2012-06-12 05:04:19 PM  

DrippinBalls: Service dog? well, hell, quite ridin' it around in the store!

/hope ya got a saddle for that pup..........


quite?

/Quit?
 
2012-06-12 05:04:34 PM  
Honestly I've been seeing a lot of "service dogs" for things like stress and the like. By service dog I mean mutt that runs around and pisses on things while acting up, and clearly has no training. When told to get the damn thing out of here, the owner screams about it being a service dog.

I assume if the trend continues pretty soon you will need to carry an ID or something marking your dog as an actual trained and certified service dog.

/by "a lot", I mean two over the last five years
//still we're all painting with broad strokes here
/my main question is what prompted the manager to approach the person and what the dog might have done to prompt that approach
 
2012-06-12 05:04:49 PM  

CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?


working dogs wear very short skirts and usually have meth teeth
 
2012-06-12 05:05:13 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

The dog does math.


There are 17,354 pieces of kibble in that food bag.
 
2012-06-12 05:05:16 PM  

Cat Food Sandwiches: This. There is an old saying that if your dog is overweight then you aren't getting enough exercise.


As a fatty I am both ashamed, yet kind of not, when I say I take better care of my dog's dietary needs and activity levels than my own. Every year at her check-up my vet reminds me how awesomely awesome my dog is.
 
2012-06-12 05:05:21 PM  

BackAssward: Psycoholic_Slag: The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.

Ok, I don't really have a dog in this fight (heh) but you did not answer the question. Does the dog have a uniform or name tag? Seeing eye dogs are pretty obvious but what about the emotional support pets? How are they "very, very easy to differntiate" from just a pet on a leash?


Well, there is this...

/Does not require a uniform.
//Does not require a tag.
///Law is law.



So, you can't really tell if an animal is a service animal "by using your eyes and your brain" since they are not required to be marked or identified.

Right My Little Pony Killer?
 
2012-06-12 05:05:35 PM  
seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?
 
2012-06-12 05:05:44 PM  

sleeps in trees: My son as a service dog. He's autistic. The dog was not trained through a mainstream facility because it would have cost us 20k and for a child that does not bond a 2 year old dog defeats the purpose. We have been questioned but higher establishments (Chateau Whistler etc.) are amazing.


The second sentence made sense, but the words rest mixed up they are.
Son as dog? You tried to purchase a child for $20,000? US or Canadian?
 
2012-06-12 05:05:59 PM  
I used to do volunteer work at a non-chain thrift store. 90% of what gets donated goes right into the dumpster because it is too old, too filthy, or simply a bunch of broken junk. Now and then we'd get a load of really good stuff, brand new designer clothes with tags still on them, NIB 2 generations old electronics, etc., but by and large what comes in via donation is garage sale quality. Yes, employees get first dibs on stuff, but they paid regular thrift store prices for it because honestly there was almost never anything worth stealing.
 
2012-06-12 05:06:51 PM  
that is why i exclusively donate my stuff to cauz for pawz in nyc. i'd always rather help animals than people.

/got nothing
 
2012-06-12 05:07:20 PM  

KatjaMouse: FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

Some dogs are trained to keep a kid with autism focused. It acts as a combination fur nanny and slobbery security blanket.


My autistic son was prone to wandering off to go exploring, sometimes at 3AM and without telling anyone. We looked into a service dog to keep him around the house or at least let us know if he was heading out. They run about $15K, though, so we just improved the locks in the place instead.

He's a full blown ninja now, but he has more space and so wanders less.
 
2012-06-12 05:07:32 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

Until Tuesday

is a book written by a veteran about his service dog. The guy has some physical problems which the dog helps with but the dog's primary job is helping the guy not spaz out. Animals can do things for humans that we can't allow other humans to do for us. There are obviously some people out there taking advantage and I think there needs to be some sort of standardization and oversight but with kids especially animals can be the only thing that helps.
 
2012-06-12 05:07:39 PM  
So if people aren't required to provide proof of their animal being a service dog, what stops people from bringing any animal into businesses and claiming they're a service dog?
 
2012-06-12 05:08:20 PM  
Does anyone have a kid who's NOT autistic?
 
2012-06-12 05:08:40 PM  

DrippinBalls: Service dog? well, hell, quite ridin' it around in the store!

/hope ya got a saddle for that pup..........


quite?

/Quit?

Psycoholic_Slag: BackAssward: Psycoholic_Slag: The My Little Pony Killer: CruiserTwelve: The My Little Pony Killer: It's very, very easy to differentiate between a working dog and a pet even if the working animal isn't otherwise marked.

How?

By using your eyes and your brain.

Ok, I don't really have a dog in this fight (heh) but you did not answer the question. Does the dog have a uniform or name tag? Seeing eye dogs are pretty obvious but what about the emotional support pets? How are they "very, very easy to differntiate" from just a pet on a leash?


Well, there is this...

/Does not require a uniform.
//Does not require a tag.
///Law is law.


So, you can't really tell if an animal is a service animal "by using your eyes and your brain" since they are not required to be marked or identified.

Right My Little Pony Killer?



Well, currently there is no governing body over certification, and (right-or-wrong), if you say it is a service ani9mal, it is...
 
2012-06-12 05:08:49 PM  

RibbyK: sleeps in trees: My son as a service dog. He's autistic. The dog was not trained through a mainstream facility because it would have cost us 20k and for a child that does not bond a 2 year old dog defeats the purpose. We have been questioned but higher establishments (Chateau Whistler etc.) are amazing.

The second sentence made sense, but the words rest mixed up they are.
Son as dog? You tried to purchase a child for $20,000? US or Canadian?


Eh fark! Give me a break the kids licking windows today... So is the dog.
 
2012-06-12 05:09:07 PM  
I like the idea of a placard for your service dog. Until that happens, though, Goodwill needs to do some serious butt kissing.
 
2012-06-12 05:09:08 PM  

skullkrusher: seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?


who pays for the service tag enforcement?
 
2012-06-12 05:09:18 PM  

KatjaMouse: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

By law you're allowed to ask:

"Excuse me. Is that a service animal you have with you?"

if 'yes' then

"What is the nature of the animal's training/their task?"

Other than those two questions you're not allowed to ask them for paperwork or proof of service.


I don't know why anyone would bother asking those questions. What can you do with the answers?
 
2012-06-12 05:09:42 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Diogenes: houndoggie: why can't the store ask for proof of the dog's service?

netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

Just guessing, but I would say that challenging the validity of the assistant would be akin to challenging the handicap. Which would be discriminatory. But I agree that it seems excessively broad.

You need proof of a disability in order to get SSI, handicapped parking privileges, discounted bus passes, and so on. WTF is wrong with requiring proof that your dog has graduated from service school?


In all those cases, you're providing information to government agencies that are governed by strict privacy legislation and that need the information to administer a social benefit. It's not the business of the petty authoritarian managing the Goodwill or the pimply kid at the fast food place or whatever why you need a service animal. Once they're told the animal is there to assist with a disability, they really need to back off. Routinely inconveniencing and/or violating the privacy of people with disabilities isn't justified by the fact that some people might abuse the law.
 
2012-06-12 05:10:06 PM  
I also want to add I was really impressed with a service Yorkie I saw recently. At the grocery store I saw this woman with a tiny little tea cup sized terrier in the child seat of her cart with that little blue vest on. That dog was silent and intently watching its owner. Anytime she shifted to another shelf that dog tracked its gaze and I imagine it must be pretty difficult for a dog that tiny and adorable to keep on its task because of the number of people and children who would try to pet it or pick it up.
 
2012-06-12 05:10:14 PM  

Rent Party: KatjaMouse: FeedTheCollapse: I saw a kid with an "Autism Dog" at Target a few months back; wtf is this shiat?

Some dogs are trained to keep a kid with autism focused. It acts as a combination fur nanny and slobbery security blanket.

My autistic son was prone to wandering off to go exploring, sometimes at 3AM and without telling anyone. We looked into a service dog to keep him around the house or at least let us know if he was heading out. They run about $15K, though, so we just improved the locks in the place instead.

He's a full blown ninja now, but he has more space and so wanders less.


Have you tried chaining him to his bed? It will put a stop to his wanderings. Just make sure the chain is long enough for him to get to the bathroom. Or, at the very least, give him a chamber pot.
 
2012-06-12 05:10:27 PM  

skullkrusher: seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?


The current service dog laws are permissive. There isn't really some gold standard where the dog gets a patch to wear and has to wear them (by law the dog doesn't have to wear them).

However, for everyone saying Goodwill is farked, ADA 1990 says:

Under the ADA, businesses are permitted to deny access to service dogs that are not behaving properly. They may also be excluded if the presence of the animal constitutes a fundamental alteration of the business or poses a direct threat.

So assuming the dog did something. Goodwill had the right to punt the dog. Unless of course ADA was updated since 1990.

/too lazy to Google that, about to head home anyway
 
2012-06-12 05:10:47 PM  

houndoggie: netizencain: So I can just walk around with a dog, call it a service dog and no one can ever challenge me?

what if the dog shiats or pisses on the stores floor. Is the disabled person required to clean it up? What if the dog bites some one? Is the person liable for the dogs actions?


A "real" service animal has been quite well trained to only void its waste in certain places and socialized not to bite unless attacked.
 
2012-06-12 05:11:44 PM  
What does a service dog do for someone with epilepsy? Not trying to be a dick, I honestly don't know.
 
2012-06-12 05:11:46 PM  
Well once, they wouldn't allow my service elephant in a china shop. Really honked me off.
 
2012-06-12 05:11:49 PM  

kvinesknows: skullkrusher: seriously though, why not just have service dog tags so these sorts of situations are avoided?

who pays for the service tag enforcement?


what's there to pay for?

"Sorry, ma'am, no dogs allowed."
"This is a service animal."
*checks tag if interested*
"Your story checks out, happy shopping"
 
2012-06-12 05:11:53 PM  

Rapmaster2000: [gianthamster.com image 640x426]

Here's me and some of my bros chilling with my service dog. I take him everywhere, to the beach, to the movies, to shallow river deltas to forage on soft plants. He never barks or growls at anybody.


Speak!!
 
2012-06-12 05:11:55 PM  
Johnson City, Tenn. . .sounds like lyrics from an Old Crow Medicine Show song.
 
2012-06-12 05:12:28 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Rules were changed a year ago. Only dogs and miniature ponies can be service animals now. Yes, ponies; I'm not joking.


They're using seeing eye ponies because minitaure horses live longer than dogs and have a much wider range of vision. They even make little booties for their hooves.
 
2012-06-12 05:13:09 PM  
Yeah, service animals are supposed to be well-trained. As long as the thing isn't pissing or crapping all over the place, what exactly is the problem? I would rather share space with most dogs than most people.
 
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