Knows what that's like.

umad: And? Since there is no good reason to get married these days, it seems reasonable to be suspicious of anyone that still wants to do it.

Yea - spousal rights, inheritance laws, hospital visitation rights, social security and retirement benefits, health insurance, etc are no reasons whatsoever to get married.

/why are straight people so clueless about what the marriage laws are?

XveryYpettyZ: Moosecakes: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I don't know why people think this is the law. You can be detained or arrested for attempting to shoplift whether you make it out the door or not.

Sure, and then you won't be convicted. Prove that I didn't intend to pay for that. I dare you.

In a lot of cases the store guard wont apprehend the person until they walk out the door. Mainly because yes, even a genuine thief would claim to have been fully intending to pay for the item if they were stopped whilst still in the store. Even if they are walking toward the door with purpose, they'll still say something like 'I was just going to get something from that shelf over there'. And the smart ones also have money on them so if the store guard gets the police involved and insists on a search the thief can show that they had the means to pay as part of their 'evidence' that they weren't stealing.

But, in some cases there is enough suspicious behaviour to get the person whilst still in store. Like if someone takes a load of clothes to the changing rooms and then comes out either wearing some under their own clothes or having concealed some in a bag. And having de-tagged them. The police aren't likely to buy a 'I was still going to pay for that' defence in that case. Plus also you have to remember that a genuine thief might not have the sense to come up with any defence even if they'd just stashed a candy bar in their pocket and got stopped whilst still in the store.

So short answer, yeah, you can be stopped whilst still in the store if you are stealing.

I wish the police had stopped my wedding. It was a sham.

ScotterOtter: Is there a mural of this yet?

crickets?

Am I the only on here who's been to Derry?

XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I was just thinking this same thing. So what if it even was a sham marriage, why would you arrest them at the wedding before they are actually even legally married? And wouldn't you want to look into it a little more, you know, actually do some detective work instead of relying on an anonymous tip before you make any arrests in the first place? Don't you have to try and prove it's a shame after the fact?

ScotterOtter: ScotterOtter: Is there a mural of this yet?

crickets?

Am I the only on here who's been to Derry?

I haven't been since the big storm, when all that strange stuff was happening. A friend of mine even claimed to hear voices from the sewer. Thank goodness those kids got out of the Barrens okay.

I like that they're policing their own, if the officers were disciplined, but this does not fulfill their obligation to the citizens. Internal discipline, but also an open apology to the affected parties, makes a more proper amends to the public trust. If the department is later sued, an apology should not be substituted with a financial settlement, but rather added to it the decision. For example, a heartfelt apology and an escort for their second ceremony probably would have taken away a lot of the appearance of the unapologetic lack of accountability to the public.

Smeggy Smurf: Sometimes both of you having kids that you don't have custody of can be a driving factor. The custodial parents aren't married but the non custodial ones remarried. It gives the kids something stable to look forward to. They can live part of their life seeing the better way to life.

So in order to have a "legitimate" marriage I have to produce a child, leave its mother, let her have custody, then marry someone else? Or is that a "sham" marriage? I'm so confused.

Nanny. State. Indeed.

Egoy3k: ha-ha-guy: I was told after my first interview we needed to come back for a second interview since they thought it was a marriage of connivence. So I did some constructive editing of the photo album. The first 10 pages were photos from the time I spent in the military and the various marksmanship awards I won. The next 5 where photos of me with my person weapons stash.

So do you actually believe that you somehow threatened a public official by showing him your guns and manly ability? He couldn't possibly have just been a nice guy or didn't care or saw something else in you that the previous interviewer didn't? No not a chance, he was afraid of you and your big bad guns. Do you really believe this? If you do isn't that threatening a federal official? Isn't that a felony?

It's more likely the guy wanted to help out a serviceman or even more likely that he just didn't give a shiat and pushed the papers through because he deals with passive aggressive bullshiat from people like you all day long and has given up.

If I'd thrown in a reference to the Marine Core or FlyNavy, would it have helped fire off your snark detector?

I actually got the all the paperwork handled on the first pass. In part because I married someone whose nationality wasn't on their paid marriages watchlist and in part because I dropped off six three ring binders of documentation. The officially clearly didn't want to read that shiat and was more than happy to get me out the door so he could go back to whatever he was doing.

Something blue?

Smeggy Smurf: profplump: newmilpan: uh, what the fark is a sham wedding?

I was wondering that myself. Why does anyone get legally married other than the legal benefits? What makes some of those marriages "shams" and other "legitimate"?

Sometimes both of you having kids that you don't have custody of can be a driving factor. The custodial parents aren't married but the non custodial ones remarried. It gives the kids something stable to look forward to. They can live part of their life seeing the better way to life. It also drives the exes even crazier than they already are. That's always a good thing.

More likely for immigration reasons - easier to stay in the country if you've married a citizen.

que.guero: footshot: Why do they need to dress in forensic clothing for suspicion of a sham marriage?

farking pigs.


Virginity testing. The UK is under Sharia law these days.

1) She's pregnant. Virginity question answered.

2) What is that supposed to prove? If you aren't farking, and are waiting for marriage, it's a sham? If you are farking, it's a sham because who would buy the cow when they could have the milk for free?

que.guero: footshot: Why do they need to dress in forensic clothing for suspicion of a sham marriage?

farking pigs.


Virginity testing. The UK is under Sharia law these days.

If that were true then pigs would not be acceptable...

and you're either racist or funny, can't decide which :)

Smeggy Smurf: That's not what I said but if that makes you happy then knock yourself out.

I told you I was confused. In my original post I was asking what made one marriage legitimate and another a sham. You responded with something about children and custody, which seems like a non sequitur to me. So I gave you the option of a couple of possible parsings that I though fit what you wrote, but clearly indicated that neither made sense to me. This was supposed to serve as a starting point for you to refine your posting into something we could both understand.

If you're not interested in communicating you don't have to explain. I was just trying to figure out what you meant.

profplump: newmilpan: uh, what the fark is a sham wedding?

I was wondering that myself. Why does anyone get legally married other than the legal benefits? What makes some of those marriages "shams" and other "legitimate"?

When one of 'em's a furriner, Duh!

/Prolly ordered her out of a mail-order catalog and everything.

PJ-: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: XveryYpettyZ: Moosecakes: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I don't know why people think this is the law. You can be detained or arrested for attempting to shoplift whether you make it out the door or not.

Sure, and then you won't be convicted. Prove that I didn't intend to pay for that. I dare you.

"He shoved the merchandise down his pants; and we have him on tape looking around before shoving it down his pants. The defense rests, your Honor."

...and then you go to jail.

Once again "I put those down my pants because I had no other option in carrying the goods I wanted to purchase around the store. Had your staff did their jobs, and made sure that carrying baskets and push carts available, this whole mess would have been avoided. I didn't think it mattered where I put it, since I was the one purchasing the goods, it's really quite unfortunate that I was never given the chance to bring my goods to the cash. The only reason I looked around was to see if there was anybody who noticed my moves just in case I needed to explain why the goods were going down my pants. But now that we are in court, it will be known by my employer, friends and family that I am a potential thief all because I was never given the chance to reach the register to buy my items. I remember my lawyer saying that I can sue for defamation of character.'

And then I walk free with a nice paid vacation from work as well. There is a reason why every single store waits for thieves to bypass the register before nabbing them.

Yeah... you are wrong. I've picked up people who never left the store. It is damned easy to prove and if you pull that BS in court you could easily perjure yourself.

XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

Some states allow a shoplifting arrest if the person simply conceals the merchandise.

I don't know what sort of crime a sham marriage is, though. I've been accused of having a sham marriage but it was some months later at our first "interview" (basically no interviewing actually took place) for her green card. The offense they alleged was using the sham marriage to apply for a green card, not the marriage itself.

ha-ha-guy: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

In America, when you go to get your spouse citizenship they'll be assholes and try to make your marriage look like a sham. You can show up with a giant photo album documenting the past 6 years of your relationship (and all kinds of documents showing joint banking accounts, sharing insurance, etc) and the immigration folks will still be dicks about it. They'll claim you only got married because the foreigner paid you to green card him/her in and be real insulting about it.

/depends to some level on which government official you get and how his day has been going I assume

So they do that crap to everyone? I figured it was because she is substantially older than I am.

ha-ha-guy: CSB:
I was told after my first interview we needed to come back for a second interview since they thought it was a marriage of connivence. So I did some constructive editing of the photo album. The first 10 pages were photos from the time I spent in the military and the various marksmanship awards I won. The next 5 where photos of me with my person weapons stash.

/in and out in 45 minutes on the second one, with a very polite guy going over the paperwork

I would worry about them claiming that was a threat and arresting you.

For us things turned a lot more polite once we passed the life trivial quiz. Despite their errors (What we found: I was asked "what does she usually wear at night", she was asked "what did you wear last night". Oops--those questions get different answers. He also wouldn't believe me when I said her answer to "What brand of TV do you have" would be "I don't know". How many more errors they made we don't know.) we apparently did well enough they realized we really are a couple.

pjc51: More likely for immigration reasons - easier to stay in the country if you've married a citizen.

Yeah, that's the main illicit thing you can get from marriage.

XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

That's concealment. Still illegal. Good point, but poor analogy.

Loren: For us things turned a lot more polite once we passed the life trivial quiz. Despite their errors (What we found: I was asked "what does she usually wear at night", she was asked "what did you wear last night". Oops--those questions get different answers. He also wouldn't believe me when I said her answer to "What brand of TV do you have" would be "I don't know". How many more errors they made we don't know.) we apparently did well enough they realized we really are a couple.

Do they ask you these questions in front of eachother? Because they should. If the conversation goes:

Official: What kind of TV do you have?

Him: RCA

Her: Sony

Him: I'm pretty sure it's an RCA

Her: Sony

Him: Are you sure?

Her: Of course I'm sure. Do you think I would say Sony if I wasn't sure?

Him: But we bought the RCA together...

Her: No. YOU bought the RCA with your roommate. It went with the brown plaid couch. WE bought the Sony. With the money that your Uncle David gave us for a wedding gift. Which, by the way YOU never wrote the thank you note for.

Him: I thought you were writing the...

Her: Why, because I'm the woman?? It's my job by default because I'm FEMALE?? And what other jobs are we assigning based on gender? Cooking? Dishes? Gonna buy me a blender for Christmas??

Official: (rolling eyes) Yeah, you guys are definitely married. And good farking luck with that.

Gyrfalcon: XveryYpettyZ: Moosecakes: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I don't know why people think this is the law. You can be detained or arrested for attempting to shoplift whether you make it out the door or not.

Sure, and then you won't be convicted. Prove that I didn't intend to pay for that. I dare you.

You can be detained or arrested for ATTEMPTING to shoplift, dummy; is reading too hard for you? And if you have the goods hidden at the bottom of your diaper bag underneath your stroller, it's goddamn hard to pretend you just forgot about it and meant to pay before you left.

Here's the rules I had when I was with loss prevention: (I worked at Disneyland and our rules were slightly different; your mileage may vary)

Observe subject without the item
Observe subject WITH the item (i.e., they picked it up)
Maintain constant observation of subject/item (i.e. they didn't put it down)
Observe subject make no attempt to pay
Observe subject leaving property

You don't have to wait till they clear the store completely; as long as all the other elements are met, they either stole it or were going to steal it.

Apparently you're the one who has some level of reading deficiency. What was step 5 of your checklist again? Leaving. I guess that's why you're in loss prevention (read: I failed the police academy test and now I'm a rent-a-cop.)

/hows your spiffy tin badge and flashlight, champ?

krackpipe: I like that they're policing their own, if the officers were disciplined, but this does not fulfill their obligation to the citizens. Internal discipline, but also an open apology to the affected parties, makes a more proper amends to the public trust. If the department is later sued, an apology should not be substituted with a financial settlement, but rather added to it the decision. For example, a heartfelt apology and an escort for their second ceremony probably would have taken away a lot of the appearance of the unapologetic lack of accountability to the public.

An escort for their second ceremony? If this had happened to me, the last farking thing I'd want was these assholes to show up at the re-do. They already farked it up once.

And if this happened to me, you can bet there would be a lawsuit unless they were smart enough to offer a financial settlement. My wedding wasn't any major deal, pretty much just family there, 20 people, outdoors. But that's still some expense involved, not to mention the embarrassment and aggravation.

There simply isn't any reason for it. Even if it *is* a sham wedding, let them do the wedding ceremony, gather your evidence, then bust them. Doing it at the wedding, with no evidence other than an anonymous phone call, means you're just trying to be dicks.

Mutiny32: HOW HAS NOBODY MENTIONED THE DOCTOR IN THIS THREAD YET!?

This.

superfudge73: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x313]

About farking time...no pun intended.

/well, i say no pun intended...

XveryYpettyZ: Apparently you're the one who has some level of reading deficiency. What was step 5 of your checklist again? Leaving. I guess that's why you're in loss prevention (read: I failed the police academy test and now I'm a rent-a-cop.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1710311.stm

Winona Ryder. Busted for shoplifting. Convicted of grand theft, shoplifting, and vandalism, after hiring a big name attorney to defend her.. She used your "I was in the store, this was just a misunderstanding" excuse.

/In other words, you don't know what the fark you are talking about.

Smeggy Smurf: I was talking about why some people choose to get married when it's often a dumbass mistake to do it.

I've asked my wife that question. She couldn't give me an answer.

/She used to be married to a Guy that beat her almost daily.
//Broke her neck once.
///Now the only "beatings" she gets are the pleasurable kind.
////This year will be 13 years of married bliss.

namegoeshere: Loren: For us things turned a lot more polite once we passed the life trivial quiz. Despite their errors (What we found: I was asked "what does she usually wear at night", she was asked "what did you wear last night". Oops--those questions get different answers. He also wouldn't believe me when I said her answer to "What brand of TV do you have" would be "I don't know". How many more errors they made we don't know.) we apparently did well enough they realized we really are a couple.

Do they ask you these questions in front of eachother? Because they should. If the conversation goes:

No. They're asked separately. They ask a whole bunch of the most trivial things about your life together. They are things that if you really are living together you'll know but if you're not it's awfully hard to prepare for because they are so trivial. It's not like studying for a test where they're after the important stuff, this is the exact opposite.

My interviewer didn't believe she wouldn't know what brand of TV we had. (Reality: The TV predated our relationship--she had no involvement in it's purchase. It was one where there was almost no frame around the tube, the brand was in quite small writing. Without her glasses she would have to bend over to read it--it wasn't something she would notice casually. With her glasses it was too small to read, period. Also, at that point it required a conscious effort on her part to read English, she wouldn't have noticed it casually even if her vision hadn't limited her.)

Bruxellensis: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 600x400]

Knows what that's like.

Dang, beat me to it.

Who the fark invited these idiots to my wedding?

Egoy3k: ha-ha-guy: I was told after my first interview we needed to come back for a second interview since they thought it was a marriage of connivence. So I did some constructive editing of the photo album. The first 10 pages were photos from the time I spent in the military and the various marksmanship awards I won. The next 5 where photos of me with my person weapons stash.

So do you actually believe that you somehow threatened a public official by showing him your guns and manly ability? He couldn't possibly have just been a nice guy or didn't care or saw something else in you that the previous interviewer didn't? No not a chance, he was afraid of you and your big bad guns. Do you really believe this? If you do isn't that threatening a federal official? Isn't that a felony?

It's more likely the guy wanted to help out a serviceman or even more likely that he just didn't give a shiat and pushed the papers through because he deals with passive aggressive bullshiat from people like you all day long and has given up.

It's also simpler than you put it. The guy gets ranked on in a review by a petty bureaucrat. He responds with information that he's served the country with distinction and includes a photo-collage that symbolizes his anger at the situation he finds himself in. The second reviewer is a Swansonite who is more than happy handle the matter with all dispatch.

Also in cases like the one in the article, I would like the cops union do something to make it right, How about they pay for another wedding and a nice honeymoon? Also a three pack of "get out of jail free" cards. And a police escort to the ceremony and then to the airport. And an envelope with 5 grand in it handed to them by the chief of police as a surprise why they arrive at the airport.

The Best Man was thinking " Oh, FARK! They took that shiat seriously. That look on his face is priceless tho. Camera roll and keep mouth shut. DON'T LAUGH!! Look pissed or disgusted. OLD NUNS AND CRICKET BATS, OLD NUNS AND CRICKET BATS"

Bathia_Mapes: I didn't say that they were never disciplined in the U.S., but I think if you looked a bit harder you'd find that the number of non-disciplined U.S. police officers is larger than those who were disciplined.

And the case you cited involved off-duty police officers who got in a drunken fight.

Moving goalposts. These are decidedly not the same:

And unlike the U.S., they actually disciplined the officers.
I think if you looked a bit harder you'd find that the number of non-disciplined U.S. police officers is larger than those who were disciplined.

And yes, you said that they don't discipline officers in the US. You also provide no basis for your new goalpost. You also ignore the 17 cases I cited. I intentionally lengthened my sentence just to have enough words to link to all of the cases I found and you focus on that one? There's a good variety of causes and origins there, and that came from a very cursory search using a single search term. Anyway, you're still wrong. Don't worry, though. I know you never intended to have to defend your blustering, so I'll leave it at that.

Loren: My interviewer didn't believe she wouldn't know what brand of TV we had.

I have a four TV's in the house, and another on the back porch. I don't know the brands of any of them. It's not the kind of thing I would consider important.

PJ-: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: XveryYpettyZ: Moosecakes: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I don't know why people think this is the law. You can be detained or arrested for attempting to shoplift whether you make it out the door or not.

Sure, and then you won't be convicted. Prove that I didn't intend to pay for that. I dare you.

"He shoved the merchandise down his pants; and we have him on tape looking around before shoving it down his pants. The defense rests, your Honor."

...and then you go to jail.

Once again "I put those down my pants because I had no other option in carrying the goods I wanted to purchase around the store. Had your staff did their jobs, and made sure that carrying baskets and push carts available, this whole mess would have been avoided. I didn't think it mattered where I put it, since I was the one purchasing the goods, it's really quite unfortunate that I was never given the chance to bring my goods to the cash. The only reason I looked around was to see if there was anybody who noticed my moves just in case I needed to explain why the goods were going down my pants. But now that we are in court, it will be known by my employer, friends and family that I am a potential thief all because I was never given the chance to reach the register to buy my items. I remember my lawyer saying that I can sue for defamation of character.'

And then I walk free with a nice paid vacation from work as well. There is a reason why every single store waits for thieves to bypass the register before nabbing them.

Here in Indiana, we have a crime called "concealing merchandise." Put something you haven't paid for in your pocket, or down your pants? Arrestable offence.

ransack.: PJ-: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: XveryYpettyZ: Moosecakes: XveryYpettyZ: One thing I would be interested to know is how you can be arrested for having a sham marriage before you have the wedding. Isn't it a bit like shoplifting: it isn't stolen if it hasn't gone out the door yet?

I don't know why people think this is the law. You can be detained or arrested for attempting to shoplift whether you make it out the door or not.

Sure, and then you won't be convicted. Prove that I didn't intend to pay for that. I dare you.

"He shoved the merchandise down his pants; and we have him on tape looking around before shoving it down his pants. The defense rests, your Honor."

...and then you go to jail.

Once again "I put those down my pants because I had no other option in carrying the goods I wanted to purchase around the store. Had your staff did their jobs, and made sure that carrying baskets and push carts available, this whole mess would have been avoided. I didn't think it mattered where I put it, since I was the one purchasing the goods, it's really quite unfortunate that I was never given the chance to bring my goods to the cash. The only reason I looked around was to see if there was anybody who noticed my moves just in case I needed to explain why the goods were going down my pants. But now that we are in court, it will be known by my employer, friends and family that I am a potential thief all because I was never given the chance to reach the register to buy my items. I remember my lawyer saying that I can sue for defamation of character.'

And then I walk free with a nice paid vacation from work as well. There is a reason why every single store waits for thieves to bypass the register before nabbing them.

Here in Indiana, we have a crime called "concealing merchandise." Put something you haven't paid for in your pocket, or down your pants? Arrestable offence.

Theft by concealment. Yes, that's the law in many places.

Loren: My interviewer didn't believe she wouldn't know what brand of TV we had. (Reality: The TV predated our relationship--she had no involvement in it's purchase. It was one where there was almost no frame around the tube, the brand was in quite small writing. Without her glasses she would have to bend over to read it--it wasn't something she would notice casually. With her glasses it was too small to read, period. Also, at that point it required a conscious effort on her part to read English, she wouldn't have noticed it casually even if her vision hadn't limited her.)

I bought the TV and remember doing enough research to find out if the after black friday deal was worth it. (It was, but I had to fix the connectors in the back after it arrived, a common problem for this particular off-brand.) I still had to walk over to find out, despite the large name right in front. Selective blindness, aka, ignore what isn't important, and brands haven't been important in TVs in decades. I imagine most of the rest of the questions are equally ridiculous, unless you can both answer "I don't know or care" and have it counted as a match.

The only TV I can think of that I know the brand of is a Hitatchi at work that flashes its gigantic name and logo for 5 seconds every time you turn it on.

Personally, I don't get the whole "sham marriage" concept. It is only in recent history (past 100 years or so?) that the principal concept of marriage has become one of romantic interest. If this is the idea of a sham marriage (getting married for a green card, etc.), they had better arrest half of the older royalty in Europe, because most were married for political reasons. It's why half of them are related to each other, even today, across many countries. Arranged marriages are common practice in many cultures even today (India for example). Does it make it any less genuine?

The concept of "sham" marriages is itself a sham IMHO.