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(BBC)   Medical ethicists say baby-making with 2 women and 1 man is just dandy   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 202
    More: Spiffy, IVF, Wellcome Trust, bioethics, human culture, mitochondrial disorder, mitochondrial DNA, social benefits, Newcastle University  
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20235 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2012 at 2:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-12 12:28:23 PM
img259.imageshack.us

I'm Derek Hough and approve of this message
 
2012-06-12 12:44:17 PM
How do they feel about just practicing?
 
2012-06-12 12:56:20 PM
Making a person from the genetic material of three people? Now that is very interesting.
 
2012-06-12 12:59:39 PM
IVF?

Do the at least share a sloppy kiss with it first before spitting it into the test tube?
 
2012-06-12 01:07:46 PM
I object to fertility science in general.
If you have some biological fault that prevents you from producing healthy children, just go adopt some of the perfectly fine ones that need homes. Yes, even the black ones.
 
2012-06-12 01:12:55 PM

serial_crusher: If you have some biological fault that prevents you from producing healthy children, just go adopt some of the perfectly fine ones that need homes. Yes, even the black ones.


Really.

God's trying to give you a hint. We have too many people here already. Adopt.
 
2012-06-12 01:13:23 PM
I don't need an ethics board to tell me that making and raising babies with two women is awesome.
 
2012-06-12 01:14:17 PM

serial_crusher: If you have some biological fault that prevents you from producing healthy children, just go adopt some of the perfectly fine ones that need homes.


You could do BOTH. Its not really an either/or situation.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-06-12 01:18:41 PM
28.media.tumblr.com
Let me understand, you got the hen, the chicken and the rooster. The rooster goes with the chicken. So, who's having sex with the hen?"
 
2012-06-12 01:31:49 PM
well IVF with a surrogate already does this naturally (DNA from dad and mom, mDNA from the surrogate mother) now they just want to find away to implant the mDNA and have the DNA mother do the birth
 
2012-06-12 01:36:10 PM

serial_crusher: I object to fertility science in general.
If you have some biological fault that prevents you from producing healthy children, just go adopt some of the perfectly fine ones


There are some pretty rough adoption stories out there and a lot of adopted kids don't end up so well off, what with having to come to terms with biological parent(s) that didn't want them, often not knowing much, if anything, about their genetic background.,things like that. Plus, not everyone could love an adopted child like their own.

There's also EXTREMELY high standards for adoption, to the point that a good lot of people don't qualify, but anyone can go for fertility treatments as far as I know.

I know I would be a horrible parent (I don't like kids) and wouldn't be good at either. I resent people telling me how much I should want kids, so I'll extend the same courtesies I'd like extended to me to people desperate enough to have children that they spend tons of money and go through many emotionally difficult and medically invasive procedures to have them. And I certainly respect people who can, and do, adopt.
 
2012-06-12 01:46:24 PM
Of course... two women is hot and two guys is icky.
 
2012-06-12 01:53:20 PM

dletter: Of course... two women is hot and two guys is icky.


It's science, biatches!
 
2012-06-12 02:00:51 PM

serpent_sky: There are some pretty rough adoption stories out there and a lot of adopted kids don't end up so well off, what with having to come to terms with biological parent(s) that didn't want them, often not knowing much, if anything, about their genetic background.,things like that. Plus, not everyone could love an adopted child like their own.

There's also EXTREMELY high standards for adoption, to the point that a good lot of people don't qualify, but anyone can go for fertility treatments as far as I know.


Yeah, a lot of those standards are unreasonable, but that's a different argument all together. You're just as likely to turn a biological kid gay as you are an adopted one though, if that's something you're worried about. I'd love it if we could enforce the same reasonable parenting standards on everybody before allowing them to reproduce, whether they plan to do it through adoption, sex, or a lab. But in the absence of legal enforcement, I'll have to settle for criticizing people who don't live up to my standards.

Being afraid of the kid maybe having emotional problems as a young adult isn't what I'd consider a reasonable excuse. I'm not expecting you to adopt a teenager, and you should be able to raise a baby to the point that he doesn't get overly preoccupied with that sort of thing. (disclaimer: I don't have kids. Parenting is no doubt a lot harder than I pretend it is).
"Not being able to love an adopted kid like your own" makes you a pretty bad person in my mind too. You going to have a crisis when your biological kid grows up to be different than you? (hint: blame the 0.1% of mitochondrial DNA that it inherited from its third parent, and sue somebody over it).
 
2012-06-12 02:03:25 PM

Cythraul: Making a person from the genetic material of three people? Now that is very interesting.


No way, it sounds awesome! High fifteen!
 
2012-06-12 02:10:30 PM
I want to see science come up with a way to form baby from the genetic stuff from two men. When they can do that, I can just hear the cries of 'the end times are here!'
 
2012-06-12 02:10:47 PM
i105.photobucket.com

What a medical ethicist might look like.
 
2012-06-12 02:13:01 PM

serial_crusher: Yeah, a lot of those standards are unreasonable, but that's a different argument all together. You're just as likely to turn a biological kid gay as you are an adopted one though, if that's something you're worried about. I'd love it if we could enforce the same reasonable parenting standards on everybody before allowing them to reproduce, whether they plan to do it through adoption, sex, or a lab. But in the absence of legal enforcement, I'll have to settle for criticizing people who don't live up to my standards.


I don't think it has anything to do with "turning the kid gay" (well, maybe in some instances) but people can be refused on basis of income, or the jobs they do, things like that. Things that would be entirely inconsequential if they could just have kids. I'm not arguing for or against these standards (I mean, you're handing over a human life, you should probably have to prove at least as much as you do to adopt a dog or a cat, but at the same time, if they're willing to submit to all these checks and such, odds are they really DO want that kid and will take care of it, so give them some slack. I'm somewhere in the middle) but merely pointing out that adoption simply is not an option for a lot of people. It feels like when a lot of people say "well, just adopt if you can't have kids", they think it works like picking up an animal at the ASPCA and plonking $200.


Being afraid of the kid maybe having emotional problems as a young adult isn't what I'd consider a reasonable excuse. I'm not expecting you to adopt a teenager, and you should be able to raise a baby to the point that he doesn't get overly preoccupied with that sort of thing.

What about having no idea about genetic disorders or predispositions in families? I at least KNOW that my panic disorder is inherited, as are my migraines. I know how my grandparents passed I know how my mother passed... I know if there is anything that I am sort of genetically predisposition to. I know someone adopted who struggles with that due to health problems and one of the first things doctors ask is family history when they are struggling for an answer. It's just a less than rosy side of adoption that comes up.

(disclaimer: I don't have kids. Parenting is no doubt a lot harder than I pretend it is).
"Not being able to love an adopted kid like your own" makes you a pretty bad person in my mind too. You going to have a crisis when your biological kid grows up to be different than you? (hint: blame the 0.1% of mitochondrial DNA that it inherited from its third parent, and sue somebody over it).
I don't see how that makes someone a "bad" person. If they honestly couldn't, well, at least they were being honest that somehow sharing the DNA with the baby they have is too important to them and it is for the better if they know that in advance. Though I think things like that are in the screening process (rightfully, if you ask me.)
 
2012-06-12 02:17:41 PM

dletter: Of course... two women is hot and two guys is icky.


A chick and two dudes? Fine with me. As long as who ever didn't get to be the daddy didn't feel left out. That's the difference. One situation has everyone play a role. But you don't get viable babbys with two sperms and and a single ovum.
 
2012-06-12 02:23:11 PM
2 girls one cup?
 
2012-06-12 02:24:58 PM

Cythraul: I want to see science come up with a way to form baby from the genetic stuff from two men. When they can do that, I can just hear the cries of 'the end times are here!'


they could already do that if they can do this.. trivial

donor egg from surrogate mother, extract haploid genetic code and discard

sperm from daddy 1 - extract haploid genetic code and place into egg
sperm from daddy 2 - extract haploid genetic code and place into egg

make sure at least 1 of the two sperm is a 'female' (has X chromosome).


so.. not any more difficult than what they're describing in the article
 
2012-06-12 02:40:54 PM
Smallest 3-some ever
 
2012-06-12 02:41:19 PM
Mostly makes sense to me, with one minor question:

If you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway? No shortage of humans, people.
 
2012-06-12 02:48:16 PM

ph0rk: f you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway?


Protip: No one ever turns and says to the spouse: "Let us create babby for to spread great DNA"
 
2012-06-12 02:48:29 PM
xenophilius.files.wordpress.com

How is 2 babbys formed?
 
2012-06-12 02:49:14 PM
I'm against IVF bullshiat but support raising children in triads.

/unsure what to do here
 
2012-06-12 02:49:38 PM
Just take the mitochondria from the father who presumably isn't a waster and mix it with the broken ones from the mother. The healthier mitochondirons will win out and then the merger is just from 2 parents and the ethicists can go back to lighting up their bongs.
 
2012-06-12 02:51:10 PM
I volunteer!
 
2012-06-12 02:51:28 PM

loonatic112358: Smallest 3-some ever


DO NOT GIS BIGGEST THREESOME EVER!

/you'll want direct bleach injections into your eyes
 
2012-06-12 02:51:57 PM

NuttierThanEver: IVF?

Do the at least share a sloppy kiss with it first before spitting it into the test tube?


Hey. I'm eatin' here! Can't you see I'm eatin'?
 
2012-06-12 02:52:08 PM

Braindeath: I'm against IVF bullshiat but support raising children in triads.


How YOU doin' ?

/that's what you do here
 
2012-06-12 02:53:13 PM
Sighs..way to take the fun out of a three way. Bastids.
 
2012-06-12 02:53:53 PM
How is babby formed? How two mother get pragnent?
 
2012-06-12 02:54:55 PM

Somacandra: ph0rk: f you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway?

Protip: No one ever turns and says to the spouse: "Let us create babby for to spread great DNA"



If I was married and wanted kids, I definitely would say it exactly that way!
 
2012-06-12 02:55:01 PM
And reality catches up to Marge Piercy novels.
 
2012-06-12 02:55:06 PM

ph0rk: Mostly makes sense to me, with one minor question:

If you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway? No shortage of humans, people.


in this case they were replacing the mitocondria. mitocondria are actually highly highly evolved symbiotic organisms. they have their own DNA and reproduce on their own inside your cells. What they did here is more like a transplant than replacing genes.
 
2012-06-12 02:55:12 PM
Does it have to be different genetic material?

So twins are out of the question?

I need to know this for... uh... science.

//Doesn't matter, the wife is still going to say "no".
 
2012-06-12 02:55:31 PM

Somacandra: ph0rk: f you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway?

Protip: No one ever turns and says to the spouse: "Let us create babby for to spread great DNA"


No, but by the time you're seeing your nth specialist and looking for a second woman to donate an egg, you've probably been informed that one of you has pretty shiatty DNA.

Why continue at that point? because the rest of your DNA is so OMG awesome? Fabulous.
 
2012-06-12 02:55:56 PM

Mugato: God's trying to give you a hint. We have too many people here already. Adopt.


Do you have any idea how difficult it is to adopt a human child? The paperwork, interviews, background checks, etc. are mind boggling.


/Wishes do-it-yourself parenting needed a tenth of the required standard that adoption does
 
2012-06-12 02:56:29 PM
How is this philosophically or ethically any different from any other transplant or gene therapy to replace a faulty mechanism/part in a patients body?

If this is all scary 'Frankenstein' crap like the Chicken Little in the article claims, what do they think of organ transplants then? Farking luddites.
 
2012-06-12 02:56:43 PM

lazyguineapig33: ph0rk: Mostly makes sense to me, with one minor question:

If you have bad DNA, why the fark do you need to procreate anyway? No shortage of humans, people.

in this case they were replacing the mitocondria. mitocondria are actually highly highly evolved symbiotic organisms. they have their own DNA and reproduce on their own inside your cells. What they did here is more like a transplant than replacing genes.


I suppose, but my original question still stands: what the fark is so awesome about their DNA?
 
2012-06-12 02:57:43 PM

I_C_Weener: How do they feel about just practicing?


This needs more research. I hereby volunteer my services. Of course I will need to be compensated for my travel time with more research.
 
2012-06-12 03:01:28 PM

serpent_sky: There are some pretty rough adoption stories out there and a lot of adopted kids don't end up so well off, what with having to come to terms with biological parent(s) that didn't want them, often not knowing much, if anything, about their genetic background.,things like that. Plus, not everyone could love an adopted child like their own.

There's also EXTREMELY high standards for adoption, to the point that a good lot of people don't qualify, but anyone can go for fertility treatments as far as I know.


Everyone I know who has adopted did so from another country*: Guatemala, Russia, etc. None of them adopted from within the US because of how freakin' annoying it can be.

* [shakes baby rattle] THEY TOOK OUR JERBS!
 
2012-06-12 03:07:05 PM
feminema.files.wordpress.com


/Caesar approves
 
2012-06-12 03:09:21 PM

Joce678: Do you have any idea how difficult it is to adopt a human child? The paperwork, interviews, background checks, etc. are mind boggling.


I think the point is that it's no problem for society to produce enough children as a group, so there's little pragmatic value in correcting the hereditary flaws of small populations. If the fact that it's difficult to get orphans to willing parents, or to get children away from bad parents is driving this development we should refocus or efforts on fixing that problem, rather than undertaking such complicated and expensive reproductive procedures.

I'm not opposed to this on moral grounds or anything, I just think it's unnecessary, and possibly detrimental to efforts to solve real societal problems.
 
2012-06-12 03:10:31 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: [img259.imageshack.us image 575x431]

I'm Derek Hough and approve of this message


have them bathed and sent to my quarters
 
2012-06-12 03:10:39 PM

Mugato: serial_crusher: If you have some biological fault that prevents you from producing healthy children, just go adopt some of the perfectly fine ones that need homes. Yes, even the black ones.

Really.

God's trying to give you a hint. We have too many people here already. Adopt.


That or eat them.
 
zez
2012-06-12 03:11:39 PM
Three-person IVF 'is ethical' to treat mitochondrial disease

unyouth.org.nz
 
2012-06-12 03:12:17 PM
The legal paternal battles should prove quite entertaining..................
 
2012-06-12 03:16:16 PM

Smeggy Smurf: loonatic112358: Smallest 3-some ever

DO NOT GIS BIGGEST THREESOME EVER!

/you'll want direct bleach injections into your eyes


So it's like seeing Moby Dick and Jane and Jill?
 
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