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(Detroit Free Press)   State of Michigan: maybe all these school zero-tolerance policies weren't such a hot idea after all   (freep.com) divider line 62
    More: Obvious, Michigan, Sex and the law  
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17183 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2012 at 11:08 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-12 11:10:00 AM
Think of the prisons!
 
2012-06-12 11:15:03 AM
I wonder how quickly this guy will get fired for suggesting that zero tolerance is bad.
 
2012-06-12 11:15:27 AM
Wait, you mean kids break rules regardless of your 'new and improved' policies and telling them they can't do something only makes it worse? And that kids will bully because that's what people do when they're young and stupid? No... go on.
 
2012-06-12 11:15:30 AM
This guy is soft on crime. He needs to show some tough love. TUFF LOVE!
 
2012-06-12 11:16:40 AM
It's about damned time.
 
2012-06-12 11:16:54 AM
Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins to get out of doing their jobs.
 
2012-06-12 11:17:51 AM
Well... I'm sure the recent budget cuts to education by the Republicans in the state are really going to help improve our education system here in Michigan.

Especially since that money is being siphoned to corporations...
 
2012-06-12 11:18:02 AM
Good job State of Michigan. Unlike other states, when Michigan sees a problem with their policies, they work to fix them.
 
2012-06-12 11:18:55 AM
Unfortunately, the alternative to zero-tolerance is to rely on education administrators to exhibit reasonable judgment.
 
2012-06-12 11:18:56 AM
Zero-tolerance policies are an excellent way to teach children to fear and despise authority. You should never be cooperative because you have nothing to gain. Not getting caught, rather than becoming a person who understands the purpose of having rules and willingly abides by them, is the most important thing in life.
 
2012-06-12 11:20:01 AM
FTA: Students who bring guns to school, get into physical altercations or sexually assault other students or staff, by law, must be suspended or expelled. And state officials say that shouldn't change.

So we can still use zero tolerance rules to expel elementary school kids for bringing squirt guns to school. Got it.
 
2012-06-12 11:20:04 AM

The Martintuckian: Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins to get out of doing their jobs.


Zero tolerance is the way to avoid Mommies attempting to circumvent your judgment with phone calls and threats of lawyers. So you just say "fark it, I need exactly codified rules so I can tell Tyler's Mom to suck it."
 
2012-06-12 11:20:38 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I wonder how quickly this guy will get fired for suggesting that zero tolerance is bad.


We have a zero tolerance policy against questioning the efficaciousness of zero tolerance
 
2012-06-12 11:20:50 AM
Of course the state mandated zero tolerance policies are the ones that get interpreted too broadly.

Bring a plastic knife in your lunch? That's a weapons violation.
Hug another student? Sexual assault.

Seems Michigan is in an awful hurry to find a bigger gun with which to shoot themselves in the foot.
 
2012-06-12 11:21:11 AM

Zombalupagus: FTA: Students who bring guns to school, get into physical altercations or sexually assault other students or staff, by law, must be suspended or expelled. And state officials say that shouldn't change.

So we can still use zero tolerance rules to expel elementary school kids for bringing squirt guns to school. Got it.


Where exactly is Seattle, Michigan?
 
2012-06-12 11:21:37 AM
I tend to disagree. If kids misbehave/don't do the work then fail them or expel/suspend them. If they get behind in school work it is their own damn fault.

(That being said - the zero tolerance for some things is stupid - but for many things it makes perfect sense)
 
2012-06-12 11:26:09 AM

steelkidney: Of course the state mandated zero tolerance policies are the ones that get interpreted too broadly.

Bring a plastic knife in your lunch? That's a weapons violation.
Hug another student? Sexual assault.

Seems Michigan is in an awful hurry to find a bigger gun with which to shoot themselves in the foot.


There was one on fark a few years ago about a high school student in the MI/MN/WI area getting expelled because he had his properly licensed hunting rifle legally in his gun rack on his truck while parking off campus on a public street. Zero tolerance obviously saved lives that day
 
2012-06-12 11:26:25 AM
Anyone else notice the well-placed Play button on the "First Position" video to the side of TFA?
 
2012-06-12 11:31:13 AM
FTA: students who are being booted out of school for nonviolent offenses, like being chronically disobedient or being insubordinate

I'm willing to bet that the are teachers on Fark that has one of these asswipes in their class that contributes absolutely nothing but disruption. Not fair the kids that really want to learn.
Put their asses in a separate class with an ex Seal Team Six instructor.
When I was in school, asswipes that deserved it got special attention from the gym teacher after school. You were required to attend a "boxing class" with the coach.
/ graduated 1964
 
2012-06-12 11:32:08 AM
Honor student expelled for a knife

Long time coming. Probably too late to fix anyway.
 
2012-06-12 11:33:36 AM
I'm glad this is going through. I was almost expelled from High School because of this zero tolerance bullshiat (for something I had nothing to do with no less). All it is is a good way for school officials to make themselves look good while simultaneously ruining peoples lives for the sake of furthering their career. fark that.
 
2012-06-12 11:34:48 AM

Rapmaster2000: The Martintuckian: Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins to get out of doing their jobs.

Zero tolerance is the way to avoid Mommies attempting to circumvent your judgment with phone calls and threats of lawyers. So you just say "fark it, I need exactly codified rules so I can tell Tyler'sTyqhwanda's Mom to suck it."


FTFY
 
2012-06-12 11:35:06 AM
I like how they can expell a student FOR DROPPING OUT!

Nothing says "We want you in school" like expelling a kid for dropping out.
"That'l teach 'em"
 
2012-06-12 11:39:42 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I wonder how quickly this guy will get fired for suggesting that zero tolerance is bad.


You expect no tolerance for his lack of tolerance for zero tolerance?
 
2012-06-12 11:40:10 AM

The Martintuckian: Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins to get out of doing their jobsdodging liability.


FTFY

/dat lawsuit
 
2012-06-12 11:44:09 AM
That shiat's been there forever.

I thought it was stupid then and I think it is stupid now, especially when zero tolerance really meant "Super sports star has a shotgun in his car because he was hunting before school, it's alright, just stop at home tomorrow and drop the weapon off first" becomes "OMG! REGULAR JOE STUDENT HAD A GUN IN HIS CAR FOR THE SAME REASONS!!!! EXPEL HIM!!!"

Not me, but a friend got expelled because he had been hunting before school and was planning on going back out into the woods after school.

They were on edge because earlier in the year a different student had brought in a pistol to shoot her boyfriend at a different school for knocking her up, but she showed the weapon to a friend who went right to the principal.

Ah, good old rural high school hijinks.
 
2012-06-12 11:46:55 AM

The Martintuckian: Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins parents to get out of doing their jobs.


Put the blame where blame is due.
 
2012-06-12 11:47:33 AM
If you adopt zero tolerance rules you should fire your administration and let a computer make all the decisions based on the rules.
 
2012-06-12 11:47:43 AM

Wellon Dowd: Zero-tolerance policies are an excellent way to teach children to fear and despise authority. You should never be cooperative because you have nothing to gain. Not getting caught, rather than becoming a person who understands the purpose of having rules and willingly abides by them, is the most important thing in life.


Growing up in Michigan Public Schools, I figured out how to technically tread the line while undermining authority. Good skill for later in life.

For example, my school banned backpacks post Columbine. Seriously. But you could bring it to school... and leave with them... but God Forbid you had three classes in a row with huge books on the complete opposite side of the school with 4 minutes inbetween classes with halls packed full of kids. Good f--king luck either balancing the stack or jumping in and around the crowd to get to one side and back before you were tardy.

So I started carrying this:

images.containerstore.com

And my brother and I surreptitiously dropped flyers against it with the superintendent's email.

Good times.
 
2012-06-12 11:59:15 AM
ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE
 
2012-06-12 12:03:37 PM
Michigan doing something that makes sense? Unpossible!!

(checks article)

Okay, so Michigan is considering removing all the zero-tolerance language that makes sense, and yet preserving all the zero-tolerance policies that still do not make sense.

Order restored.
 
2012-06-12 12:05:08 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Growing up in Michigan Public Schools, I figured out how to technically tread the line while undermining authority. Good skill for later in life..


If you'd really been learning skills for later in life, you'd have rented those out for five bucks a day.
 
2012-06-12 12:11:17 PM
Zero tolerance, taking the common sense out of educating for 20yrs!
 
2012-06-12 12:27:33 PM

The Martintuckian: Zero tolerance is just an excuse for teachers and admins to get out of doing their the parents' jobs.


FTFY.

Making an effective but compassionate punishment appropriate to the student and circumstances requires a parent's knowledge of the kid to concoct, and a parent's cooperation to enforce.

I hate zero-tolerance policies as much as the next sane person. They were adopted to limit legal liability, not be effective tools of discipline.
 
2012-06-12 12:31:31 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Growing up in Michigan Public Schools, I figured out how to technically tread the line while undermining authority. Good skill for later in life..

If you'd really been learning skills for later in life, you'd have rented those out for five bucks a day.


That would've thrown me over the line, and I knew it. A friend of mine bought glow sticks and necklaces in bulk and sold them at school dances. He wasn't technically violating *anything*, but IIRC they fixed it after the first one so that he would if he did it again and I knew that I'd probably get nailed by the changes too.

Same friend, I think pre-Columbine, read the school rulebook like a hawk and noticed that you could carry a blade as long as it was less than 3 inches, so he carried on that was 2 3/4". Ah, good times.
 
2012-06-12 12:40:53 PM

Rapmaster2000: This guy is soft on crime. He needs to show some tough love. TUFF LOVE!



i105.photobucket.com

What Tuff love might look like.
 
2012-06-12 12:50:24 PM
michigan sucks
 
2012-06-12 12:50:30 PM
t3.gstatic.com

Expulsions for some, tiny American flags for others!
 
2012-06-12 12:55:34 PM

dittybopper: ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE


AMEN
 
2012-06-12 01:00:13 PM
My sister was suspended for a week for wearing a banned t-shirt (because it had a duck on it). My parents let her go to the Caribbean that week with some friends. The principal was sternly asking if she learned her lesson and my father said something like "yes, if you suspend her again, she will get to go back and work on her tan"
 
2012-06-12 01:02:43 PM

stevenboof: Good job State of Michigan. Unlike other states, when Michigan sees a problem with their policies, they work to fix them.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

*sniff*

Heheheheheheheh...

*blows nose*

Oh, that was a good one. Tell another one!
 
2012-06-12 01:06:56 PM
http://DON.MAC/
My sister was suspended for a week for wearing a banned t-shirt (because it had a duck on it). My parents let her go to the Caribbean that week with some friends. The principal was sternly asking if she learned her lesson and my father said something like "yes, if you suspend her again, she will get to go back and work on her tan"

Errr... why are shirts with ducks banned?
 
2012-06-12 01:12:55 PM
Fewer students means fewer teachers.
Fewer teachers means fewer taxes.
It is a winning situation I tell ya!
 
2012-06-12 01:24:12 PM

wambu: dittybopper: ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE

AMEN


Do me a favor: Repeat that phrase whenever the topic of zero tolerance comes up. We need to stop it.
 
2012-06-12 01:31:09 PM

patrick767: Errr... why are shirts with ducks banned?


The german club made up some t-shirts with the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil with ducks and would make quaking sounds behind the principal's back.
 
2012-06-12 01:59:03 PM

You Are All Sheep: So you just say "fark it, I need exactly codified rules so I can tell Tyler'sTyqhwanda's Mom to suck it."


Perhaps it's different in the school districts around where you live, but around me my freinds and family who are teachers aren't constantly under threat of lawyers because of Tyqhwanda's parents, It's the Aiden, Kayden, Jaden, and Kaightlynnes of the world around here who will drop the lawyers on you for anything, up to and including trying to give their kids a "C."
 
2012-06-12 02:18:34 PM
A student in sixth grade or above who physically assaults another student at school must be suspended or expelled for up to 180 days. A student in sixth grade or above who physically assaults an employee must be expelled permanently

What is the purpose of this distinction? Why is it worse to hit a teacher than to hit a peer?
 
2012-06-12 02:30:25 PM
Flint schools were talking about this a few years ago. I found out that the zero tolerance meant they didn't have after school detention or other means of discipline other than suspension or expulsion. A little lip to teach get a day off. Tardy to class get a day off. Since school uniforms were introduced, if you have a bad laundry day get a day off. It was send them home or do nothing about their behavior and after enough suspensions they were expelled. I don't know if they changed policy back then or maybe trying to figure it out now.
 
2012-06-12 02:38:44 PM

patrick767: Errr... why are shirts with ducks banned?


Because schools are often run by petty tyrants. And where there's a petty tyrant there are seemingly arbitrary rules, typical intended to protect the tyrant's fragile feelings against perceived slights by the proletariat. Which is insane of course -- all it does is reveal the tyrant's insecurities -- but arbitrary and every-changing rules are part of being a tyrant, and being pouty is as good a reason as any to invent such rules.
 
2012-06-12 02:39:45 PM

profplump: A student in sixth grade or above who physically assaults another student at school must be suspended or expelled for up to 180 days. A student in sixth grade or above who physically assaults an employee must be expelled permanently

What is the purpose of this distinction? Why is it worse to hit a teacher than to hit a peer?


Yeah, that two teer punishment sounds very unjust. Oh wait, I forgot how teachers have always taught lesson one is teachers are always more important than you. I lost my head for a second. Please don't give me 30 minutes detention.
 
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