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(USA Today)   North Dakota voters are about to completely eliminate their property taxes, which bring in about $800 million and pay for schools, fire fighters, and police. How will they make up the money? "Uh...the State will give it to us"   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, North Dakota, property taxes, Tax Foundation, North Dakota voters  
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8479 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jun 2012 at 1:23 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-12 10:02:11 AM  
You know as crappily as the current state of the US is plotted and the gaps in logic displayed by some to the principal characters I would swear we are being directed by Kevin Costner in the prequel to The Postman
 
2012-06-12 10:05:51 AM  
I wish Texas would do that. Not paying any taxes at all would be awesome.
 
2012-06-12 10:06:30 AM  
North Dakota has just announced they're going to make up that money by investing 9 figures in a prequel to The Postman.

Costner is can't-miss box office gold.
 
2012-06-12 10:13:16 AM  
It's a good thing oil booms never end.
 
2012-06-12 10:24:30 AM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how. Sprynczynatyk said this vagueness makes it uncertain if the measure can be implemented.

That sounds well planned out.

And while I applaud looking for alternative methods of revenue, selling the vowels from your name is only a one time thing.
 
2012-06-12 10:25:10 AM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.


That's some goddamned genius-level planning.
 
2012-06-12 10:27:36 AM  

serial_crusher: I wish Texas would do that. Not paying any taxes at all would be awesome.


there's alway somalia. it's a conservative paradise. religion, guns, and no taxes - hell, no government! plus, women know who's boss!
 
2012-06-12 10:47:32 AM  

Blues_X: Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.


That's some goddamned genius-level planning.


Welfare queens, on a slight delay.
 
2012-06-12 11:02:24 AM  
Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.
 
2012-06-12 11:03:35 AM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

superradnow.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-12 11:10:07 AM  
What will they say when the 15% sales tax hits?
 
2012-06-12 11:12:39 AM  

Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.


As nice as not having property taxes would be (especially here on Long Island, where they're out-farking-rageous), I'd like to think that most people would want an alternative source of funding in place before voting to get rid of them. Good to see that seems to be the case.
 
2012-06-12 11:22:42 AM  

FreakinB: Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.

As nice as not having property taxes would be (especially here on Long Island, where they're out-farking-rageous), I'd like to think that most people would want an alternative source of funding in place before voting to get rid of them. Good to see that seems to be the case.


Long Island? My condolences.

I love (in a grim way) telling my out-of-state friends about the $4800 property tax bill I pay for a house that's barely worth 200 grand.

Looks like it'd be a sales tax hike that would replace the property tax in ND. Which has its positives and negatives - it does pull in money from people working off the books, but unless you're a fanatic about receipts it's a biatch to figure out what you paid in sales tax when it comes time to itemize deductions.

I like to see my taxes enumerated whenever possible, so as to make the most informed decision I can on whether I'm getting my money's worth. At least the property tax is one number and not hundreds of little numbers you have to add up.
 
2012-06-12 11:48:27 AM  

Blues_X: Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

That's some goddamned genius-level planning.


Could they hypothetically enact a state-level property tax to replace the county-level ones being repealed? The lulz industry would strip mine that shiat for all its worth.
 
2012-06-12 11:48:42 AM  
Sprynczynatyk said this vagueness makes it uncertain if the measure can be implemented.

Mynczynatyk, what have you done with Superman?!
 
2012-06-12 11:59:02 AM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

What I'm hearing is that they'll be begging the Federal government to pull them out by someone else's bootstraps.
 
2012-06-12 12:01:55 PM  
Wouldn't replacing revenue from property taxes with sales taxes essentially be a regressive move? Unless of course the sales taxes are for luxury items.
 
2012-06-12 12:03:06 PM  
It seems like so many states are going off the deep end. Can someone just name the states that are progressive and will probably stay progressive for the near future?
 
2012-06-12 12:06:57 PM  

coco ebert: It seems like so many states are going off the deep end. Can someone just name the states that are progressive and will probably stay progressive for the near future?


Scandinavia
 
2012-06-12 12:22:50 PM  

serial_crusher: Could they hypothetically enact a state-level property tax to replace the county-level ones being repealed?


Not to thread jack, but having a state wide property assessment system (rather than leaving it up to the locals) is probably a better, fairer way to go. In PA, Allegheny County is under court mandated reassessment, but neighboring counties aren't, even though their property assessments are decades out of date.
 
2012-06-12 12:28:04 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: coco ebert: It seems like so many states are going off the deep end. Can someone just name the states that are progressive and will probably stay progressive for the near future?

Scandinavia


Lol, you read my mind.
 
2012-06-12 12:38:47 PM  
don't worry the indivisible hand of the free market will solve everything

i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-12 01:04:21 PM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

Of course they know how. Everyone knows how. It will be paid from state levies on oil production, just like Alaska. That's well understood, just no North Dakotan wants to say the word "Socialism".
 
2012-06-12 01:26:50 PM  
Please do it North Dakota, please do it! I'm really looking forward to the look on your face when you ultimately come begging to the Feds for money and they close the door on your ass.
 
2012-06-12 01:27:02 PM  

Blues_X: Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.


That's some goddamned genius-level planning.


I suspect North Dakota residents are going to hate fees in a very short time.
 
2012-06-12 01:27:44 PM  
Grover Norquist and the Tea Party strike again.
 
2012-06-12 01:31:01 PM  

Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.


Yeah, I heard that as well. Of course, the article you linked also says that states like North Carolina, Texas, and Pennsylvania are trying to abolish it too. What is it with some Republicans and endlessly trying to pass laws that the population says they don't want?
 
2012-06-12 01:31:24 PM  
FTFA: Nelson, the tax opponent, hopes North Dakota starts a brush fire elsewhere to end - not just lower - the property tax. "The problem with reducing a tax is it's like a weed. It always grows back," she said.

Funny how that happens. It's almost like states need revenues to provide public services to the citizenry and when shortsighted morons succeed in slashing revenues, they have to be made up somewhere else.
 
2012-06-12 01:31:31 PM  

Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.


Well, that is good news. When unions AND the Chamber of Commerce can agree it is a bad thing it is probably a bad thing.
 
2012-06-12 01:32:19 PM  

Mentat: It's a good thing oil booms never end.


This
 
2012-06-12 01:33:37 PM  
This is what happens when you have to many Tea Baggers in one place. But hey they can privatize the police, firefighters and schools. I truly hope for them there are enough sane people there to keep this from passing. But the fact that this is even had enough momentum to get put up for a vote doesn't make the state look too good.
 
2012-06-12 01:34:07 PM  
Shift the property tax away from improvements to one strictly on site value.

Not that there is much site value in North Dakota, but it's the thought that counts.
 
2012-06-12 01:34:32 PM  

sdd2000: Grover Norquist and the Tea Party strike again.


Not really, Norquist only cares about the marginal federal tax rate. You can drown the middle class in taxes, but don't you dare raise the marginal rate to what it was during the Reagan years.
 
2012-06-12 01:34:41 PM  
Sure, why wouldn't old people vote for it? Lawmakers would be smart enough to not cut everything at once, since that would totally wreck things, so the state would run a huge deficit, and by the time the bill comes due, the people who voted for this will be gone.
 
2012-06-12 01:35:53 PM  
Well, there are a lot less people in North Dakota than most states... I suppose they don't need basic infrastructure and modern public services. Because, hey, they have...um...lots of room?

/no taxes = infinite revenue
//this is what they actually believe
 
2012-06-12 01:36:08 PM  

sigdiamond2000: Costner is can't-miss box office gold.


You're right. Wait, did you say "gold" or "bored?"
 
2012-06-12 01:37:24 PM  
"The oil boom makes it easier to get rid of the tax, but we started this before the oil boom took off," said [some short-sighted dumbass]

Makes sense to me. Everyone knows economic booms go on forever.
 
2012-06-12 01:38:24 PM  
They're going to make up the revenue by establishing that natural resources are the property of the people, and that private companies who would wish to profit off of those resources be taxed for the privilege....

If only there was a word for this.
 
2012-06-12 01:39:31 PM  
Replacing a property tax with a progressive income tax would not be a bad idea. But if you're just going to abolish the tax, you should specify either specific service cuts or a specific tax to raise to make up for the shortfall.
 
2012-06-12 01:39:36 PM  
Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

This is the Tea Party. Praise be to them.
 
2012-06-12 01:40:06 PM  

The Homer Tax: They're going to make up the revenue by establishing that natural resources are the property of the people, and that private companies who would wish to profit off of those resources be taxed for the privilege....

If only there was a word for this.


We can call it... Th.....well damn, I suppose we need to name it for someone...

The....The Flanders tax!
 
2012-06-12 01:40:16 PM  

Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.


A little time and a bit of marketing can massage that number easy. You'll see this proposed again and again as long as the "boom" is place.
 
2012-06-12 01:40:32 PM  

DrRatchet: Measure 2, as the proposal is called on the ballot, would require state government to make up for property tax revenue lost by local governments but doesn't specify how.

Of course they know how. Everyone knows how. It will be paid from state levies on oil production, just like Alaska. That's well understood, just no North Dakotan wants to say the word "Socialism".


Most people I know are voting against measure 2, but there are a handful of bootstrappy farmers out here that live out in the sticks and remember their grandparents and even parents harkening back to the good old days before electricity and automobiles. Not a few of them are, unsurprisingly, vehemently anti-government and think they can simply wall themselves off in their compounds if things start to fall apart. They don't think they need much in the way of public services (and in general, they're more right than they would be in most states).

However, most of us in ND live in the "cities" and I like my police, fire, roads, and schools, thankyouverymuch.

But in the end we are one of the most socialistic states in the union - we have a state mill, a state bank, and many people here come from the old country, yep, socialist Scandinavia where it was come together or die.

I guess they've forgotten their roots. That or the big-money oil interests out west are polluting their thought processes with all the money they spend on advertising this balderdash. I'd say a little column a, a little column b.

Hey. you want to see a bill that's full of even more vague bullshiat nonsense that could potentially allow people to beat women because their religion allows it? Take look at ND measure 3.
 
2012-06-12 01:42:35 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: sigdiamond2000: Costner is can't-miss box office gold.

You're right. Wait, did you say "gold" or "bored?"


He could always try a remake of one of his classics to appeal to a younger crowd. Something like Dances With Werewolves.

/Oh, wait, IMDB says it's already been done.
 
2012-06-12 01:44:19 PM  

The Homer Tax: They're going to make up the revenue by establishing that natural resources are the property of the people, and that private companies who would wish to profit off of those resources be taxed for the privilege....

If only there was a word for this.


Georgism?
 
2012-06-12 01:44:22 PM  
Sweet! It's like opposite California-land with the same results!

CA: The people say we want this, we leave it up to the government to pay for it.
ND: We refuse to pay for anything, we leave it up to the government to pay for it.

And who cares about funding schools. We'll just get some vouchers.

//oh wait, someone has to pay for vouchers??
 
2012-06-12 01:44:59 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Gulper Eel: Not in the useless USA Today article dumped on us by subby: polls show big opposition to ending the property tax. We now return you to the smug denunciation of flyover country already in progress.

A little time and a bit of marketing can massage that number easy. You'll see this proposed again and again as long as the "boom" is place.


Um, the vote on this measure is today. I think they've run out of time to let marketing massage the number.
 
2012-06-12 01:45:56 PM  
It's amazing to me how many people look at taxes and think that they see no benefit from them. It's fine to want to make sure your taxes are properly used and adjust them, add new ones or eliminate old ones as necessary- but far too many simply say "TAXES BAD HURR" and have zero, zilch, nada idea of what they're actually advocating.

If you believe you gain nothing from the taxes you pay, you're an idiot.
If you believe it's a good idea to abolish a tax merely because it's a tax, you're an even bigger idiot.

I'll give you good odds that you couldn't find one hayseed supporting this idiocy who could actually give you a breakdown of what their property tax pays for, or even a generally accurate synopsis. I'll go further and bet that the majority of the supporters don't even own their own property but rather rent.

How did America become so stupid?
 
2012-06-12 01:46:43 PM  
What's funny I have conservative friends and they are always the first to complain that that government is not spending more money on things the like. They think their is just piles of cash the governments are flushing down the drains just for fun.
 
2012-06-12 01:47:27 PM  

Charlie Freak:
Hey. you want to see a bill that's full of even more vague bullshiat nonsense that could potentially allow people to beat women because their religion allows it? Take look at ND measure 3.


HAHAHAHAHA, wow. Talk about the vaguest law ever. I wonder what constitutes a "compelling governmental interest" and who gets to make that decision. Hopefully you guys vote both that and measure 2 down.
 
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