Yanks_RSJ: Rwa2play: Except Durant can actually close out games (see game 4 v. the Lakers).

I guess you missed LeBron's clinical dissection of the Celtics in the 4th quarter of game 7, when he repeatedly got into the lane for layups or free throws, then ripped their hearts out with a 35 foot three-pointer at the end of the shot clock.

Or, you know, his absurd 45/15/5 performance on the road in Game 6.

Yeah, but what does it constantly take to get those performances? It takes some commentator (Magic, Brent Barry) to loudly call him out. Every single time. Then he rises up for a game or two. Great. The world knows he's the most talented player. We know he can go for 40/15 EVERY NIGHT.

LeBron had better not read all of this love fest or its going to be be Game 5 before he decides to get his ass in gear again.

karmaceutical: But... if the Heat do lose... doesn't that make you stupid?

No, because I'm not the idiot saying someone's not "clutch" as though there's evidence of that. I'm not the idiot saying someone "guaranteed" multiple titles when the video itself is available online and he says no such thing.

rka: We know he can go for 40/15 EVERY NIGHT.

That f*cking pussy Michael Jordan. We knew he could go for 50 every night and the lazy little b*tch barely ever did it. What a choker. Played only when he felt like it.

Neeek: Just FYI, that's also not always true. NBA-style box scores don't include misses that lead to foul shots, but some international box scores do, so if you are looking at something from out of the US, you have to be careful when making comparisons.

I used ESPN's site. Would be helpful if they marked shooting fouls. Doesn't really hurt my point though because I'm not one who says LeBron doesn't play hard in big games. I did look a little silly, though.

IAmRight: Yeah, he does sometimes settle for outside shots when he could probably destroy the guy guarding him. However, I will point out that a lot of the reason for the "slacking" is probably because he has to play the entire game - he basically gets his "breaks" on the court, because that's how inadequate anyone coming in to replace him would be.

I get what you mean and you may be right, but I don't accept that. Miami may well have the talent to win 90% of their games* and absolutely crush anyone less than a playoff 3-seed, so during the regular season they can and do get their breaks just building up big leads. During playoffs the excuse is even more thin. Pretty much any starter can expect to play the whole game (even if most don't) during the "second season" so it's not like he's the only one carrying this cross.

Here's the thing. IF LeBron just wants to cruise through non-elimination games, that's fine. Really, it is, and if that's all it was I WOULD accept your explanation that he "breaks" on the court. I have nothing against someone being underemployed by their own design. . . as long as they're honest about it. Hell, I'm one myself. It's obvious just from me being here that I don't give full effort at work (I tell people I put in a professional effort and they're OK with it) but I also never complain about not getting rewards, accolades, raises or promotions. I get back what I put in and both sides are happy. Problem is, LeBron acts like a superstar without putting up superstar effort. I did say earlier that I blame some suits LeBron trusted for "Teh Decision" and I do stand by that, but IF he had the humility appropriate for his effort level then regardless of how naive he was he never would've agreed to that nonsense. And that I think is what royally pissed everyone off. I have no personal grudge against the guy and I know neither he nor anyone on Fark could care less about my opinion, but it's obvious the guy wants to be respected and people don't respect anyone who demands more than he earns.

*Proof that you can't win on just talent. They don't win 90% of their games for other reasons.

rka: It takes some commentator (Magic, Brent Barry) to loudly call him out.

Yes, he responds only to commentators he's not watching. It's weird that no one told him to play well last year, though, since apparently that's all it takes.

I would just like to get this out early before Game 1.

Fark the photographers on the floor. They don't need to be there, they could ruin a guy's career, and one or two pool cameras could remove all but 2 photographers if they have to be there.

Thank you.

IAmRight: homarjr: Lebron took Cleveland to the Finals. Jordan didn't win in his first 7 seasons either. I really think Lebron could've convinced management to get him someone to help. On "his" team. He went to Wade's team. That's weak, and should not be in the mind-set of the world's best.

So it would've been fine if those guys went to Cleveland. It's his problem that Miami is way better than Cleveland to live in (if only for the lack of a state income tax), attract other players, and because they had the cap room to get good players.

So basically, it's his fault for getting drafted to an undesirable location for an undesirable franchise.

It would've been better if they came to Cleveland, yes. It would've been even better if only one of them came. Does Lebron really need TWO other all-stars on his team to win? When he had just made the Finals? I really don't think so, but now I'll never know. When Lebron made his decision, he basically said that doesn't want to play at 100% anymore, and that's the sad part of it all.

Neeek: Gunny Highway: homarjr: If you're the "greatest player on the planet", which Lebron probably is, then you shouldn't have gone to a team where you needed two other all-stars to help you win.

How many champions in the last 25 years have won without at least two All Stars?

2, I think. Hakeem was the only All-star on the Rockets the two times they won it. I doubt it happened anytime before or since.

Boy, was I wrong there:
2011 - Dirk
2004 - Ben Wallace
2003 - Duncan (There was no All Star game in 1999, but I think only Timmy would have made it from those Spurs)
1998 - Jordan
1995, 1994 - Hakeem
1991 - Jordan
1989 - Isiah
1978 - Elvin Hayes
1975 - Rick Berry
1951 - Bob Davies

homarjr: When he had just made the Finals?

He hadn't made the Finals since '07, before the Celtics created their "Big Three."

After losing to the Celtics in '08 and '10 (and the Heat losing to the Celtics in '10), it became clear to him that he would never make it through the Celtics - so he sought to be a part of his own "Big Three" - that's been the trend in the NBA.

So he did his own GM'ing and made it happen - and thus far, after never beating the Celtics in the postseason, both Wade and James, teamed up, have made it through the Celtics each year.

The problem is that they have to tangle with Western Conference teams after that, and when you don't make it out of the East ever, you forget what the West brings to the table.

redmid17: You'll get a rusty Shumpert


I gave your mom the ol' "Rusty Shumpert" last night

redmid17: You'll get a rusty Shumpert

This sounds like a frankly uncomfortable sex act.

Yanks_RSJ: homarjr: If the Heat were built from scratch, that's one thing. Jordan needed Pippen. Shaq and Kobe needed each other. Everyone needs a solid #2 to win. But this Heat team was built by the players, and it all just feels like a cop out.

Shaq/Kobe was manufactured by Kobe's agent who told Charlotte he'd never play for them straight out of high school and Shaq's desire to move to Hollywood and star in Kazaam. That's better somehow?

LeBron showed up as a 19 year old and the Cavs were suddenly 20 games better than the year before. So they ended up 10th in the draft and got ... Luke Jackson.

Yes, to me it is better than two proven all-stars joining a third one in the prime of all of their careers, all from different teams, and where one of them is the best player in the game. We didn't know Kobe was "Kobe" right out of high school (selected 13th overall). We knew Lebron, Wade and Bosh very well.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here, because we all made up our minds a long time ago. But I think it's perfectly ok to hate on the Heat for what they're trying to do, and I guess that's what this argument is all about.

IAmRight: SevenizGud: OKC wins 2, Miami wins 2, then OKC wins at home, and then closes out Miami in Miami?

It's a 2-3-2 setup for the Finals.

/why the NBA changes the system for the Finals still is beyond me.

From what I remember, it was something Red Auerbach pushed for back in the earlier days when players flew on normal flights. It was an attempt to minimize flights (the Finals tend to have cross country flights, since it's West vs. East, especially if it was LA v Boston). Later on, Red said that it was a mistake, because it kind of penalized the team with home court advantage by having 3 games in a row (including an all important game 5) at the lower seeded team's home court.

/no reason not to change it back to 2-2-1-1-1 like every other series; chartered flights these days, too.

If the Heat win game one the sheer number of head asplosions will be legendary.

rickythepenguin: redmid17: You'll get a rusty Shumpert


I gave your mom the ol' "Rusty Shumpert" last night

*shakes fist*

So close, and yet so far.

robertus: redmid17: You'll get a rusty Shumpert

This sounds like a frankly uncomfortable sex act.

It is a lot like a Rusty Venture

robertus: *shakes fist*

So close, and yet so far.


it was a good effort, young fella. i ain't mad atcha. game reckinize game. tru ballerz show respect. holla.

homarjr: When Lebron made his decision, he basically said that doesn't want to play at 100% anymore, and that's the sad part of it all.

No other player this side of Allen Iverson has been expected to/able to drag sorrier teams further into the playoffs. We celebrate KG for finally getting away from Minnesota and getting a chance to win a title. Why should they have to wait until after their primes, especially when we start criticizing them five years into their careers for not having won a title yet? I mean, the last several years were "well, we can't call you great unless you win a title, so why don't you win a title? Oh man, you have such a sh*t team around you but hey, why haven't you won a title yet? You must not be that good. Dude...when are you winning a title? I don't see any championships around here, why do we keep calling you the MVP? Oh, right, your team sucks. But if you were really the best player, you'd have won a title by now. Right? So why don't you have any titles? HEY WHERE ARE YOU GOING? YOU CAN'T GO JOIN A GOOD TEAM TO WIN A TITLE!"

robsul82: TheShavingofOccam123: I would just like to get this out early before Game 1.

Fark the photographers on the floor. They don't need to be there, they could ruin a guy's career, and one or two pool cameras could remove all but 2 photographers if they have to be there.

Thank you.

[www.totalprosports.com image 575x460]

Could've won 75 friggin' games that year if Rodman had kept his cool, lol.

At 6'6", Rodman led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years.

/other 6'6" NBA players? Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley, Manu Ginobili
/D'Antoni might have coached a champsionship if he had a small rebounder like Rodman

tenton: no reason not to change it back to 2-2-1-1-1 like every other series; chartered flights these days, too.

Yeah, that's why I had the "still" part in my comment. Also, it was easier for media/league official purposes - flight to city one, flight to city two, maybe a flight to city three, with a week in between each flight.

IAmRight: homarjr: When he had just made the Finals?

He hadn't made the Finals since '07, before the Celtics created their "Big Three."

After losing to the Celtics in '08 and '10 (and the Heat losing to the Celtics in '10), it became clear to him that he would never make it through the Celtics - so he sought to be a part of his own "Big Three" - that's been the trend in the NBA.

So he did his own GM'ing and made it happen - and thus far, after never beating the Celtics in the postseason, both Wade and James, teamed up, have made it through the Celtics each year.

The problem is that they have to tangle with Western Conference teams after that, and when you don't make it out of the East ever, you forget what the West brings to the table.

Not a good argument for me, because I think the Celtics were just as lazy building buying that championship as the Heat were (but still a tiny bit better because the Celts big three were at least on the downsides of their careers, except Pierce, who was already on the team).

Also - it became clear to him that he would never make it through the Celtics - is not what the best player in the league should ever think, in my opinion. Maybe that's just me though.

TheShavingofOccam123: /D'Antoni might have coached a champsionship if he had a small rebounder like Rodman


DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT....DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT.....DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT....

rickythepenguin: TheShavingofOccam123: /D'Antoni might have coached a champsionship if he had a small rebounder like Rodman


DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT....DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT.....DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT....


ALL THE SUNS ASKED WAS FOR D'ANTONI TO PLAY A LITTTTTTTTLE TINY TEENY TINY BIT OF DEFENSE AND IN HIS PETULANCE HE RESIGNED, TRANSFORMING HIMSELF IN THE NBA VERSION OF CAPTAIN AHAB, CHASING THE WHITE WHALE OF "SIX SECONDS OR LESS AND ALL I HAVE TO DO IS OUTSCORE THE OTHER TEAM BY 1 POINT TO WIN A RING"

GAAAAAHHH

DAMMIT

THIS BAIT IS SOOOOOO YUMMY

homarjr: Also - it became clear to him that he would never make it through the Celtics - is not what the best player in the league should ever think, in my opinion. Maybe that's just me though.

So he should think that his sh*tty team with his sh*tty coach and sh*tty front office in a sh*tty town were just going to magically get good overnight after 7 years of proving that they sucked?

There were no more Sonics to loot! That was the team that gave Pippen to the Bulls. That was the team that gave Allen (and therefore Garnett) to the Celtics. But they left and were in OKC with a competent GM - Cleveland couldn't make deals with them anymore.

rickythepenguin: ALL THE SUNS ASKED WAS FOR D'ANTONI TO PLAY A LITTTTTTTTLE TINY TEENY TINY BIT OF DEFENSE AND IN HIS PETULANCE HE RESIGNED, TRANSFORMING HIMSELF IN THE NBA VERSION OF CAPTAIN AHAB, CHASING THE WHITE WHALE OF "SIX SECONDS OR LESS AND ALL I HAVE TO DO IS OUTSCORE THE OTHER TEAM BY 1 POINT TO WIN A RING"

All I asked for is for the Suns to get through one postseason without an important player getting injured or suspended for BS for a critical game(s).

IAmRight: I asked for is for the Suns to get through one postseason without an important player getting injured or suspended for BS for a critical game(s).


just heard moments ago that the Toronto Rappers are determined to land Nash.

Gunny Highway: How many champions in the last 25 years have won without at least two All Stars?

I can't say they didn't have "All-Stars" but the '04 Pistons won the title led by the infamously undrafted Ben Wallace. Make no mistake they had a lot of very good players but no one on that team had a high enough profile to be heard of by a casual fan. Ironically they beat that Lakers team that had added Malone and Payton to the Shaq-Kobe-Phil dynasty.

They're the exception that proves the rule, though. Over the last 40 years they're the ONLY NBA champion I can find that didn't have at least one HoF lock. Most teams, even finalists that didn't win, had at least 2.

IAmRight: rka: It takes some commentator (Magic, Brent Barry) to loudly call him out.

Yes, he responds only to commentators he's not watching. It's weird that no one told him to play well last year, though, since apparently that's all it takes.

Yeah it is weird that he doesn't have to stones to motivate himself.

Meh, what are you going to do. Million dollar talent, 10 cent head.

/like LeBron doesn't obsessively check what the commentators are saying every single night. Everyone knows that his biggest wish is to be liked by everyone.
//Worst kept NBA secret is how insecure he is.

Neeek: Boy, was I wrong there:

Just because those teams didn't have multiple all stars that year doesn't mean they didn't have all-star caliber players. Don't beat yourself up.

2004 Pistons - Rip Hamilton played in 3 All-Star games, Billups ended up playing in 5. Rasheed Wallace was a two-time all-star and a deadline acquisition for Detroit in 2004 who ended up being their 3rd-leading scorer in the playoffs.

1998 Bulls - it was still Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc, which is as good a trio as there was in the NBA.

1995 Rockets - Hakeem & Drexler both HOFers.

1991 Bulls - Just because Pippen wasn't YET an all-star doesn't mean he wasn't a beast. He destroyed the Lakers in the Finals.

1989 Pistons - Isiah and Joe Dumars are both HOFers, don't hold it against Joe that he wasn't an All-Star in a conference that had Jordan, Isiah, Dominique, Mark Price and Mark Jackson as the ASG guards.

Neeek: robsul82: Rwa2play: I'm not denying the Bulls, but you're going to need to get someone that'll take the load of off Rose. Maybe even 2.

You don't want Rose to become the next AI.

Definitely not, but even with that problem, they're still better than the Knicks and more of a thorn in Miami's side.

I'm not sure the Knicks are in the top 5 Eastern teams the Heat would worry about. The Celtics are a little hard to get a handle on at the moment, with KG and Allen becoming free agents, but even with just Pierce and Rondo they'll be tough when their support guys get healthier. "Wherever Howard ends up" is(or is he back in Orlando for another year? I get confused as to his status) is probably a bigger concern. Beyond those two, the Pacers, the Bulls, the Hawks, the 76ers (Their team is weird. Not good-weird, but not bad-weird either. Just unpredicable)

What Thunder fans have been acting like OKC is why they are good? A combination of getting a no brainer pick in Durant (since Oden was gone and thank you Portland), plus some shrewd moves by Sam Presti (hired by evil ole Clay), and some other high draft picks that worked out are what put the Thunder where they are today. We are Thunder fans and we love our city, but we aren't foolish enough to believe the Thunder are good just because they are in our city.

homarjr: I'm not trying to convince anyone here, because we all made up our minds a long time ago. But I think it's perfectly ok to hate on the Heat for what they're trying to do, and I guess that's what this argument is all about.

I have no problem with anybody hating the Heat, I'll be rooting for the Thunder in the finals as well. Still, I get tired of people suggesting that LeBron could have done something to make Cleveland a desirable landing spot for free agents.

Maybe instead of singlehandedly carrying the Cavs to the 2007 Finals, LeBron should have tanked that season so they could have a lottery pick and maybe end up with Kevin Durant.

FreakinB Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-12 10:11:09 AM


Sigh, another one. I'll say it again: I think the backlash against him has been excessive relative to his actions. Two years is a long time to hold a grudge for what amounted to nothing more than a couple of PR mistakes.




NO


It is not excessive. It is wholly deserved. It does not go away, ever. fark him for all eternity. I hope he dies and spends a thousand years tonguing Satan's flaming anus.

rka: /like LeBron doesn't obsessively check what the commentators are saying every single night. Everyone knows that his biggest wish is to be liked by everyone.

That was last year.

Yanks_RSJ: 1998 Bulls - it was still Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc, which is as good a trio as there was in the NBA.

And Rodman. Same with the '89 Pistons.

Yanks_RSJ: Still, I get tired of people suggesting that LeBron could have done something to make Cleveland a desirable landing spot for free agents.

He was supposed to tell players he was staying, even if he wasn't! That would make him less of a two-faced liar!

doubled99: It is not excessive. It is wholly deserved. It does not go away, ever. fark him for all eternity. I hope he dies and spends a thousand years tonguing Satan's flaming anus.

Well now we know where this guy stands on the issue. Moving on.

Neeek: Boy, was I wrong there:

2011 - Dirk and Jason Kidd, only a 10-time All-Star
2004 - Ben Wallace - conceded
2003 - Duncan and HoF no-brainer David Robinson
1998 - Jordan and Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman
1995, 1994 - Hakeem and Clyde Drexler
1991 - Jordan and Scottie Pippen
1989 - Isiah and Dennis Rodman and Joe Dumars and Bill Laimbeer
1978 - Elvin Hayes
1975 - Rick Berry
1951 - Bob Davies

They may not have been All-Stars at the time and in some cases were well in decline, but all these guys had serious help yo. The 90s Bulls were a 55-win team without Jordan. I didn't dig back to the 70s but that's still over 30 years where only one team ('04 Pistons) had less than two household names on it and the original question asked for the last 25.

Rwa2play: When they got Shaq his last season, I had to LOL. It sounded like a desperate attempt by the front office to convince him to stay.

Sadly, Shaq was still the second-best player on the team, efficiency rating-wise.

Rwa2play: When they got Shaq his last season, I had to LOL. It sounded like a desperate attempt by the front office to convince him to stay.


never understood why Kerr brought The Big Shaqtus here. He did nothing for us.

and he had his own LeBron "not one, not two, not three, not four...." moment; the day he was signed, he was at the game in street clothes, and he pointed to his hand and held up a "4" or "5", symbolizing the ring he'd win.

in phoenix.

perhaps the most cursed NBA Finals city in the NBA.

there's a video clip i imagine a 3-4 minute search on Youtube would have, of Shaq hodling up his hand and pointing to his hand, then holding up the whatever, 4 or 5. we had fun with that shiat.

and then, whatever, 8 months later he's in Cleveland. I doubt he was here a full season. sure didn't seem like it.

dragonchild: They may not have been All-Stars at the time and in some cases were well in decline, but all these guys had serious help yo.

In 1994 the Rockets didn't have Drexler yet. He ring-chased in '95 and got it. Barkley ring-chased the year after and got denied.

2003 Spurs also had younger Ginobili and Parker.

2012 Mavs also had multiple-time All-Stars at other positions too (thinking mostly of my boy Shawn Marion).

rickythepenguin: never understood why Kerr brought The Big Shaqtus here. He did nothing for us.

Because Sarver said.

/I don't think Kerr is dumb enough to have made the moves he made by himself
//"We need defense and rebounding! Let's trade Shawn Marion, who at SF is our best rebounder and defender, so we can keep Amare Stoudemire!"

rickythepenguin: and then, whatever, 8 months later he's in Cleveland. I doubt he was here a full season. sure didn't seem like it.


huh. he split 2007 between Miami (33 games for hte Suns) and then played 75 for Los Soles in 2008. 2009 he landed in Cleveland.

IAmRight: /I don't think Kerr is dumb enough to have made the moves he made by himself

that's the thing. i can't understand why he did that.