LasersHurt: *siiiiiigh* Really? That's what you're going with? I didn't specifically mention the narrow category of exceptions?

That "narrow category of exceptions" is still rightfully fighting illegal disenfranchisement enforced by the 48 states that have taken that un-American stance. Hopefully the law will eventually prevail, it's just unfortunate that the people who enacted these illegal laws will never be tried for treason as they should be.

Why do we need to keep fighting these f*cking battles?

Good lord the right is nothing but assholes.

birdboy2000: If only one person voted - the fewest possible - it wouldn't be a republic, but a tyranny or a monarchy.

This is true. It's a sliding scale; but I would put "Republic" slightly towards the "less representation" than Democracy. This isn't an arithmocracy, no matter what you might have been taught in school. Ever hear of the electoral college?

LasersHurt: Holfax: You know, all you would have to do is re-cast this as "The government is requiring all voting citizens to have information tracking identification cards." and the teabaggers will start screaming bloody murder against it.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. Not but a few years back it was the scare du jour that the government might issue people ID cards. Now, the same people think they should be mandatory to vote. Weird shiat.

The right wingers don't want a reliable national ID system, they just want an obstacle that will prevent blah people from voting.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I Said: Why do we need to keep fighting these f*cking battles?

Good lord the right is nothing but assholes.

You just answered your own question

Be glad people are willing to argue and offer different perspectives, even if we end up going 'round-and-'round.

A world of mono-think may not be the Shangri-La you envision. In fact, it may be closer to Fruitopia than Utopia.

Weaver95: got me....but the GOP rank and file in this country seem to believe that it's an honor to be looted and then abused by rich and powerful people. its really weird too, since these same people tend to vote for rules and laws that screw themselves over while loudly claiming that they stand for 'freedom'.

It's actually quite simple. They listen to propaganda from Fox News, their church, and/or ultra-right-wing chain e-mails, and accept it as the truth with no critical thought whatsoever. They don't question the gospel any more than a dog would question its master's commands.

Lionel Mandrake: Shaggy_C: Lionel Mandrake: lolwut?

There's a fundamental difference between a Republic and a Democracy. In the former, representatives from the body politic are the ones who vote on matters of government. In a Democracy, the citizens themselves vote on matters of government.

There is not now, nor has there ever been, a democracy fitting that description.

Actually, in Switzerland, simple majority votes from the populace itself are how laws are decided at the local and canton level. So I wouldn't say that there has "never" been a democracy fitting that description. That being said, the United States is a democratic republic. Meaning we allow certain people to vote. Those that cannot vote (felons, non-citizen permanent residents, children) are assumed to be represented by those who can. These elections comprise the closest we get to "democracy". The elected representatives, then, are the ones who are in charge of making policy. Thus the "republic".

Dear Townhall:

I just had a big glass of fresh water and confirm that it is in fact very easy. Now I have to urinate, so vote Republican.

Haven't we been taxed enough already?

KingPsyz: Haven't we been taxed enough already?

Lol.... they'll never find the humor in that.

Needs a Fark tax to vote on Fark. You know who you are. Plus if you've ever changed your email, that'll be $140 per occurance.

When is Grover Norquist going to ask peeps to sign his no poll tax pledge???

PsiChick: That's what annoys me about the war on women. It's been fought. We don't need to re-win it because, hey, you can't take rights away.

Clearly you can, if you have a large enough group of idiots to cheer while you do it.

IrateShadow: It really bothers me that I have to repeat this as frequently as I do: We have THE LOWEST participation rate of all Eastern democracies. We should not be putting up any more barriers to voting.

Wait, when did the US get moved to the east? What's below Canada now? This is important!

Cheers.

Jackson Herring: After the ability to vote was extended to all races by the enactment of the Fifteenth Amendment, many Southern states enacted poll tax laws as a means of restricting eligible voters; such laws often included a grandfather clause, which allowed any adult male whose father or grandfather had voted in a specific year prior to the abolition of slavery to vote without paying the tax. These laws, along with unfairly implemented literacy tests and extra-legal intimidation,[1] achieved the desired effect of disfranchising African-American and Native American voters, as well as poor whites.

Go fark yourself, TownHall

Go away troll.

incendi: KingPsyz: Haven't we been taxed enough already?

No, we haven't. Expenditures have outpaced revenues for a while. Accept that we need to raise taxes or cut medicare, social security, and military spending, and stop blowing other countries up. Or accept that we will continue to borrow money at an ever increasing rate.

What'll it be?

qorkfiend: It's time to play Good Solution, GOP Solution

Problem: voters don't want to vote for you.
Good solution: convince voters to vote for you.
GOP solution: prevent voters from voting.

animaniacs.gif

Lionel Mandrake: So children and non-citizens, as well as adult citizens, vote on every governmental decision?

How do they find time to work?

Citizens have the right to vote directly on government matters. That doesn't mean they necessarily do so, though in some places it was compulsory in the past. In Switzerland, voting takes place on the weekend at the various town halls across the country. Citizens get to directly decide the government's actions via a show of hands. Contrast that with the United States. You only have a right to vote directly on government matters in the few states that have ballot initiatives and then it's only once a year. For the most part, if you walk into a city hall or a congressional chamber and attempt to participate in the vote, you would be laughed at. Only the elected few have the right to cast votes. Not saying one is better or worse - democracy is notoriously inefficient - but it definitely exists. In fact, at the national level the Swiss actually do use a representative model closer to ours simply because the bureaucracy is too large to be managed by majority-rules voting.

I'm impressed. Only the smarter right-wingers came out to argue about this, and most of their arguments are weaksauce. Seriously, Shaggy_C? You're a staunch right-winger and you're playing the "oh the po po naturalized citizens" card? Your little bleeding heart, so full of caring and compassion for your fellow man! I think you must be a closet libtard.

The League of Fail™ is sitting this one out. Will wonders never cease. Lordamercy.

TIKIMAN87: Go away troll.

Here's a post that's in the dictionary beside the word "meta".

This thread has created for me a new practice. Now when I put certain users in dumbass purple, I put an actual quotation in so I can always remember just why I don't pay attention to anything they write.

SilentStrider: So taxes are patriotic sacrifice now?

Ok.
You win ALL the thread

How can he possibly conclude that voting - the privilege to make one's voice heard as part of the ongoing deliberations central to our enterprise of advancing human freedom - should be as easy "as getting a glass of fresh water?"


This angers me in a way that goes beyond words.

That farking racist white biatch.

Lord_Baull


Weird. I always viewed it as a right guaranteed to all American citizens by the Constitution.

Sorry, but in the Constitution there is no "right to vote" in Federal elections.

theorellior: Seriously, Shaggy_C? You're a staunch right-winger and you're playing the "oh the po po naturalized citizens" card?

I'm not a right-winger. I'm an Obama voter in '08 and '12 (unless he really goes off the rails in the next 6 months). I vote straight-ticket G and L in state and local races unless they're actually close, in which case I vote D. And given that my family has many permanent resident aliens in it, the issue has a bit of personal resonance with me. I don't see why they should not be allowed to vote, as working, tax-paying people who have lived here for decades and have as much as vested interest in participating in the government that rules over them as some welfare queen who won the genetic lottery by being born on the right side of an imaginary line. Sorry that I don't see the plight of the "can't afford $5" crowd as trumping that of people who in my eyes have done far more to contribute to the well-being of our society. Americans by birth are some of the most entitled pricks on the face of the Earth. You're like the 1% of the entire globe and don't even realize it.

Hey - if you assholes want to fight the Sixties all over again - no problem. We won last time, with odds more against us - and half you voting base is about to die of old age. Have you thought this through?

LasersHurt: Only if you are hair-splittingly anal about reading it.

In the original constitution there was only a guaranteed right to vote for members of the House of Representatives. Later, the direct election of Senators was added. The election of President is still the sole power of the electoral college, the members of which can be decided upon however the represented state chooses. So if Michigan decides that rather than let their citizens vote for president, the governor will just pick the electoral college, it is Michigan's right to do so.

It's fine if you don't agree with it but this very same issue came up in front of the Supreme Court just a decade ago and they agreed with that interpretation. It was a case by the name of Bush v Gore, perhaps you've heard of it?

All I had to do was read the article headline:

"Voter Rights Are Not Free"

Go fark yourself, TownHall. If you have to pay for it, it isn't a right; it's a commodity.

Cletus C.: But my main point is stupid people should not be encouraged to vote. They don't know what the fark they're doing. They can't figure out how to register, they can't figure out how to get legal IDs and they can't remember which day is election day without some friendly robo call.

Because neither you, nor anyone else, has the right to qualify who is, or isn't, stupid.

I'm fine with illiterate people voting. I'm fine with forgetful people voting. I'm fine with people voting who base their vote entirely on whose name they prefer. I'm fine with convicted felons who've served their sentences and been released voting. I'm fine with poor people voting. As long as you're an adult resident citizen, you should have the right to vote. Period.

Instead of whining, spend some time helping to educate voters. Most people won't vote unless there's an issue or candidate that they feel strongly about. I know of lots of wealthy negligent voters who haven't set foot in a voting booth in at least a decade, mostly because they "can't be bothered". I'd sooner deprive them of the vote than deprive someone who earnestly wants to vote.

DeltaPunch: theorellior: That Overton Window has basically moved all the way to Guam by now, hasn't it.



We need to think of some good Overton/goalposts* photoshops, because we're gonna be getting a LOT of mileage from them this election.

*Yes, I know they're technically not the same thing, but both apply

Maybe you made a new thing.
Overton goalposts.
Makes more sense than the comments from the derp don't-think-tanks