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(Las Vegas Sun)   He12muth   (lasvegassun.com) divider line 64
    More: Cool, World Series of Poker, Phil Hellmuth, Phil Ivey, prize money, stock traders, poker  
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2831 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jun 2012 at 9:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-11 09:30:14 AM
Clever headline, subby
 
2012-06-11 09:38:11 AM
Sports tab?
 
2012-06-11 09:41:24 AM
I haven't watched much televised poker in a while, but I always found it amusing when the focus was on Hellmuth's childishness/arrogance like it was some kind of aberration of the norm.

All professional poker players are douchebags, he just happens to be the loudest.
 
2012-06-11 09:43:01 AM

fatalvenom: Sports tab?


dammit, -I- wanted to be that guy!
 
2012-06-11 09:43:07 AM
Also, this belongs in the Entertainment tab.
 
2012-06-11 09:52:28 AM
I'd totally kick his ass in Acey-Deucey.
 
2012-06-11 09:52:49 AM
If they put WWE on the sports tab, why not poker?
 
2012-06-11 09:56:49 AM
Meh.

Make them play without sunglasses, hats, headphones, etc.
 
2012-06-11 10:05:39 AM

Broktun: Meh.

Make them play without sunglasses, hats, headphones, etc.


I've always wondered about this. They're "the best in the world"; do they really need all that shiat to cover up their "tell"? Do super-pros even have tells? If I showed up at one of the games I play in wearing all that, I doubt they'd let me play, it's kinda ridiculous.
 
2012-06-11 10:07:37 AM

grinding_journalist: If I showed up at one of the games I play in wearing all that, I doubt they'd let me play, it's kinda ridiculous.


Might as well set up a video feed to a private suite and phone in the bets.
 
2012-06-11 10:10:13 AM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
 
2012-06-11 10:11:59 AM

Mateorocks: I haven't watched much televised poker in a while, but I always found it amusing when the focus was on Hellmuth's childishness/arrogance like it was some kind of aberration of the norm.

All professional poker players are douchebags, he just happens to be the loudest.


I take it you've never seen Phil Ivey play.
 
2012-06-11 10:22:07 AM

grinding_journalist: They're "the best in the world"; do they really need all that shiat to cover up their "tell"? Do super-pros even have tells? If I showed up at one of the games I play in wearing all that, I doubt they'd let me play, it's kinda ridiculous.


If you watch the "super-pros" they don't wear all that crap. Sure, Hellmuth wears sunglasses and you might see some of the pros wearing headphones early in the big events because they are bored (and don't want to talk with random peons).

But, look at someone like Johnny Chan or Phil Ivey. They just sit there.

Ivey freaking looks like a crackhead with his mouth half open and leaning on the table, but his eyes are always darting back and forth looking at the other players.

The only top-level pro I can think of that goes out of his way to talk about his tells and do stupid stuff with hats/glasses is Phil Laak. And, even then, the unabomber thing is just part of his crazy act.

Ivey, Chan, Negreanu, Durrr, Eric Seidel, Lederer....they just show up in whatever the hell they were wearing and play poker.
 
2012-06-11 10:24:19 AM
All night, he check-check-check! HE TRICK ME!
 
2012-06-11 10:25:23 AM

Mateorocks:

All professional poker players are douchebags, he just happens to be the loudest.


That global assumption you made, let me show you where you can stick it:

upyourownarse.jpg

/It's like saying that all black people steal or all Mexicans are lazy
//It's just not the truth.
///Oh, and you're an asshole.
////And that's just from your statement
 
2012-06-11 10:28:21 AM

grinding_journalist: Broktun: Meh.

Make them play without sunglasses, hats, headphones, etc.

I've always wondered about this. They're "the best in the world"; do they really need all that shiat to cover up their "tell"? Do super-pros even have tells? If I showed up at one of the games I play in wearing all that, I doubt they'd let me play, it's kinda ridiculous.


I think the televised games would be much more interesting without all that crap. If you're going to sit there in basically sensory deprivation, we might as well just be playing on a computer. It would be awesome seeing all these online warriors cum professionals squirming as Phil Ivey a death stare trying to coax a tell out of them.
 
2012-06-11 10:32:45 AM
I get annoyed playing poker now because there is always "that guy" at the table that thinks he's top dog because he watches it on Tv...

/keep on chirping, I'll keep on running odds and looking at others eyes, crinkled noses and pursed lips.... And folding.
 
2012-06-11 10:33:02 AM
I won a poker tournament before...and cops afterward beat the ever living shiat out of me and my friend.
 
2012-06-11 10:33:05 AM
He won a razz tournament. It means he won by having the worst cards. Sounds about right.

Someone else's CSB: The guy sitting next to me right now's lifetime card-playing highlight was knocking Helmuth out of a Texas Hold 'em tournament. He gave the same old story: so many amateurs in these tournaments make it harder because all these yahoos are unpredictable and so stupid bluffing with their chips that you almost have to believe them.

I don't know if the last part about "having to believe them" is true, but what he said about over-immersion of amateurs and ESPN have changed the scape.
 
2012-06-11 10:34:18 AM

Dogfacedgod: I won a poker tournament before...and cops afterward beat the ever living shiat out of me and my friend.


Did you catch a hanger? They can tell because there's an ace of spades on the bottom of the deck.
 
2012-06-11 10:35:09 AM

Mateorocks: I haven't watched much televised poker in a while, but I always found it amusing when the focus was on Hellmuth's childishness/arrogance like it was some kind of aberration of the norm.


That behavior is his brand. He's put a lot of effort into it.

fatalvenom: Sports tab?


Poker is highlighted in green on my cable guide, so it must be a sport.

/It's not a sport, but entertainment people wouldn't know wtf to do with it and since they shut down the online game in the U.S., you can't put it in geek either.
 
2012-06-11 10:37:50 AM

Nana's Vibrator: He won a razz tournament. It means he won by having the worst cards. Sounds about right.


Razz is, without a doubt, the most annoying and rage-enduced-vomit-creating form of poker in creation. Even worse than Omahaha Hi/Lo.
 
2012-06-11 10:57:29 AM

Nana's Vibrator: He won a razz tournament. It means he won by having the worst cards. Sounds about right.

Someone else's CSB: The guy sitting next to me right now's lifetime card-playing highlight was knocking Helmuth out of a Texas Hold 'em tournament. He gave the same old story: so many amateurs in these tournaments make it harder because all these yahoos are unpredictable and so stupid bluffing with their chips that you almost have to believe them.

I don't know if the last part about "having to believe them" is true, but what he said about over-immersion of amateurs and ESPN have changed the scape.


Phil has gotten to the point where he thinks you should always play by the math, and he has largely forgotten the psychological part of the game. Then he gets a "bad beat" and goes postal because, statistically, he had the better hand and he thinks the other guy shouldn't have played those cards.

Also, they really need to reduce the number of tournaments that count towards bracelets. This one is ridiculous to include in that total. You can play a tournament of this caliber at any number of casinos on any given weekend.
 
2012-06-11 11:07:21 AM

Professor_Falken: Mateorocks:

All professional poker players are douchebags, he just happens to be the loudest.

That global assumption you made, let me show you where you can stick it:

upyourownarse.jpg

/It's like saying that all black people steal or all Mexicans are lazy
//It's just not the truth.
///Oh, and you're an asshole.
////And that's just from your statement


Whoa...easy there. Just my opinion. The online poker sleaziness is what I'm really disgusted by.

Link
 
2012-06-11 11:07:59 AM

Harv72b: Nana's Vibrator: He won a razz tournament. It means he won by having the worst cards. Sounds about right.

Razz is, without a doubt, the most annoying and rage-enduced-vomit-creating form of poker in creation. Even worse than Omahaha Hi/Lo.


Brick-Brick-Brick-Brick. What's not to like about that?!
 
2012-06-11 11:08:34 AM

SharkTrager: Phil has gotten to the point where he thinks you should always play by the math, and he has largely forgotten the psychological part of the game. Then he gets a "bad beat" and goes postal because, statistically, he had the better hand and he thinks the other guy shouldn't have played those cards.


I saw once Phil win with AJ against AK. An ace hit the flop and then the Jack came on the turn. If I remember correctly, the guy with AK called Phil's river bet (not an all in situation). Phil was very quiet about giving his opponent a bad beat.
 
2012-06-11 11:13:30 AM

Mateorocks: Whoa...easy there. Just my opinion. The online poker sleaziness is what I'm really disgusted by.

Link


Well goodness knows the accusations must be true, because the DoJ would have nothing to gain from demonizing online poker.

/Played at Full Tilt for years, never once had an issue withdrawing funds.
 
2012-06-11 11:18:13 AM

joyride75: Brick-Brick-Brick-Brick. What's not to like about that?!


Badugi is similarly unholy, except that back in the day 95% of online players had no clue about strategy in the game, making it the easiest money since Party Poker allowed Americans.
 
2012-06-11 11:20:33 AM

Harv72b: joyride75: Brick-Brick-Brick-Brick. What's not to like about that?!

Badugi is similarly unholy, except that back in the day 95% of online players had no clue about strategy in the game, making it the easiest money since Party Poker allowed Americans.


Sigh. I miss Party.
 
2012-06-11 11:30:17 AM

joyride75: Sigh. I miss Party.


Having an account on Party Poker during the 2003-2006 time frame was tantamount to having an ATM card that never ran out of funds. Also, for the most part a class operation that made things extremely easy for their customers (not quite as good as PokerStars on customer service, but Party allowed rakeback).

I'd qualified a couple times for whatever huge tourney they were leading up to when the UIGEA hit, so I received a refund for the cash value of those entries just after I'd cashed out all my other funds. Proud to say that, with that refund, I entered my second-ever "Daily Super" tourney on Party & cashed, also for the second time ever.

/I miss not having to work. :(
 
2012-06-11 11:48:03 AM

hugram: SharkTrager: Phil has gotten to the point where he thinks you should always play by the math, and he has largely forgotten the psychological part of the game. Then he gets a "bad beat" and goes postal because, statistically, he had the better hand and he thinks the other guy shouldn't have played those cards.

I saw once Phil win with AJ against AK. An ace hit the flop and then the Jack came on the turn. If I remember correctly, the guy with AK called Phil's river bet (not an all in situation). Phil was very quiet about giving his opponent a bad beat.


Reverse the situation and he goes off about "How could that guy play that hand when I had AK?" I've seen him go off on players who limped in to see the flop only to flop a monster. For all his experience and knowledge, the guy sometimes forgets there is more to the game than math,
 
2012-06-11 11:50:08 AM
Who cares?

This guy is an asshole first off.
Second, poker? A sport? Really?

Next hing you will tell me is that WWE is real.
 
2012-06-11 11:50:50 AM
And obviously is it early as I cannot spell the simplest of words.

thing not hing
 
2012-06-11 12:00:24 PM
I miss stars and the cash plo8 games where people would come in and drop money on the game while trying to figure out the rules in real time. People come in and flop 2 pair and bet pot the whole way.

Now I have to play stinking carbon.
 
2012-06-11 12:01:05 PM
The WSOP has online streams for most of their final tables this year on their website and last night was crazy. One stream had Hellmuth playing Razz, which watching was like using 5x the recommended dose of Ambien. The other had Phil Ivey, which is like watching one of those clocks with the owl whose eyes move back and forth constantly.

When Hellmuth got heads up, he had such a chip lead that it wasn't really a question of if anymore. If he had blown it last night/early this morning after finishing 2nd in 3 final tables last year, he would've been a miserable wreck. More so than he already is.

/Ivey finished 2nd in his event
 
2012-06-11 12:08:23 PM

SharkTrager: hugram: SharkTrager: Phil has gotten to the point where he thinks you should always play by the math, and he has largely forgotten the psychological part of the game. Then he gets a "bad beat" and goes postal because, statistically, he had the better hand and he thinks the other guy shouldn't have played those cards.

I saw once Phil win with AJ against AK. An ace hit the flop and then the Jack came on the turn. If I remember correctly, the guy with AK called Phil's river bet (not an all in situation). Phil was very quiet about giving his opponent a bad beat.

Reverse the situation and he goes off about "How could that guy play that hand when I had AK?" I've seen him go off on players who limped in to see the flop only to flop a monster. For all his experience and knowledge, the guy sometimes forgets there is more to the game than math,


Very much true. Seems there's a lot of old school players who think everyone plays by the "book", whether it's Phil's, Doyle Brunson's, whomever. There's a new breed of player, amateur and pro, who mix a lot more mind games in with the math.
 
2012-06-11 12:10:58 PM

Harv72b: , but entertainment people wouldn't know wtf to do with it


Neither one of them?
 
2012-06-11 12:27:23 PM

Rickenbacker: Very much true. Seems there's a lot of old school players who think everyone plays by the "book", whether it's Phil's, Doyle Brunson's, whomever. There's a new breed of player, amateur and pro, who mix a lot more mind games in with the math.


What would Phil say if Negreanu won on a bad math bet against him just because Negreanu will do that to see how you're playing? Hellmuth's shiat is tiring, and while some of it is an act, a lot of it isn't an act. I'm sure he's quite the single deck blackjack player because he's only playing against the house who are forced in to playing a specific way and the odds are very well defined at every turn, but I'm also sure he's the first guy to biatch out whoever is sitting next to him when he takes an extra card that he shouldn't take if you're playing the math.
 
2012-06-11 12:44:07 PM

El Pelon: Who cares?

This guy is an asshole first off.
Second, poker? A sport? Really?

Next hing you will tell me is that WWE is real.


www.cynicalsmirk.com

/oblig
 
2012-06-11 01:05:55 PM
It was a freaking $2500 Razz buy in with 309 people. Big whoop. The bracelet tally only counts on the main event.
 
2012-06-11 01:17:26 PM

mainstreet62: All night, he check-check-check! HE TRICK ME!


He beeit me. Pghay that meeyan hghiss munny
 
2012-06-11 01:18:56 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7156027/77414442#c77414442" target="_blank">The Flexecutioner</a>:</b> <i>It was a freaking $2500 Razz buy in with 309 people. Big whoop. The bracelet tally only counts on the main event.</i>

Well, keep in mind it applies to any main event, including the ones from before the poker boom where they had a sanctioned tournament in BFE with the same number of people(or less)
 
2012-06-11 01:41:09 PM
Hope ESPN will broadcast that "Big One for One Drop" game. Just looked that up on the schedule.

Also: how did 22 people come up with $1 Million just for the *buy-in*?!
 
2012-06-11 01:46:19 PM
"If it wasn't for luck, I'd win every hand."
 
2012-06-11 01:56:10 PM

Rwa2play: Hope ESPN will broadcast that "Big One for One Drop" game. Just looked that up on the schedule.

Also: how did 22 people come up with $1 Million just for the *buy-in*?!


They're up to around 40 entrants, of which maybe 10 are 100% funded by themselves. Everyone else is selling their action so they'll have at most 100k of their own money at risk.
 
2012-06-11 01:58:47 PM

Rwa2play: Hope ESPN will broadcast that "Big One for One Drop" game. Just looked that up on the schedule.

Also: how did 22 people come up with $1 Million just for the *buy-in*?!


ESPN announced a couple of weeks ago that they'll have that final table "live," meaning on a 15 minute delay.
 
2012-06-11 02:04:29 PM

The Flexecutioner: It was a freaking $2500 Razz buy in with 309 people. Big whoop. The bracelet tally only counts on the main event.


there are precious few people who would pony up $2500 for a Razz tournament. A solid portion of that tourney were seasoned pros well-accustomed to playing Razz. Its not the $1500 NLH donkament, FFS.

/Stu Ungar only bested a field of 312 in the '97 main event.
 
2012-06-11 02:32:27 PM

bhcompy: Rickenbacker: Very much true. Seems there's a lot of old school players who think everyone plays by the "book", whether it's Phil's, Doyle Brunson's, whomever. There's a new breed of player, amateur and pro, who mix a lot more mind games in with the math.

What would Phil say if Negreanu won on a bad math bet against him just because Negreanu will do that to see how you're playing? Hellmuth's shiat is tiring, and while some of it is an act, a lot of it isn't an act. I'm sure he's quite the single deck blackjack player because he's only playing against the house who are forced in to playing a specific way and the odds are very well defined at every turn, but I'm also sure he's the first guy to biatch out whoever is sitting next to him when he takes an extra card that he shouldn't take if you're playing the math.


There was a video floating around for a while featuring Phils greatest meltdowns and every one was essentially that kind of situation. Losing to the rookies always brought out the biggest tantrums. He just can't seem to understand that some guys are willing to take a risk in order to knock a big player out because that could be the only big hand they win.
 
2012-06-11 02:38:46 PM

jackiepaper: The Flexecutioner: It was a freaking $2500 Razz buy in with 309 people. Big whoop. The bracelet tally only counts on the main event.

there are precious few people who would pony up $2500 for a Razz tournament. A solid portion of that tourney were seasoned pros well-accustomed to playing Razz. Its not the $1500 NLH donkament, FFS.

/Stu Ungar only bested a field of 312 in the '97 main event.


it isn't a "precious few". it is pros who were bored with NL or Omaha and like the atmosphere that doesnt involve the donkfest of the main event when they are on break from cash games. it is still no biggie. i remember reading a few years ago that Jennifer Harmon (or someone else, not positive on it) was told the rules of Razz for the first time as she was sitting down to the table and won the tourney. it isnt a complex game, but it is a break from the Cadillac of poker games.

i know that the main event attendance was really low compared to now after it got popular 10+ years ago, but 309 pales in comparison to the multiple thousands who attend the main event.

/i won a razz free roll on FTP with 1500 players
//i'd played it maybe 5 times before
///im not very good at it if that puts it in perspective
 
2012-06-11 03:31:12 PM

Flappyhead: bhcompy: Rickenbacker: Very much true. Seems there's a lot of old school players who think everyone plays by the "book", whether it's Phil's, Doyle Brunson's, whomever. There's a new breed of player, amateur and pro, who mix a lot more mind games in with the math.

What would Phil say if Negreanu won on a bad math bet against him just because Negreanu will do that to see how you're playing? Hellmuth's shiat is tiring, and while some of it is an act, a lot of it isn't an act. I'm sure he's quite the single deck blackjack player because he's only playing against the house who are forced in to playing a specific way and the odds are very well defined at every turn, but I'm also sure he's the first guy to biatch out whoever is sitting next to him when he takes an extra card that he shouldn't take if you're playing the math.

There was a video floating around for a while featuring Phils greatest meltdowns and every one was essentially that kind of situation. Losing to the rookies always brought out the biggest tantrums. He just can't seem to understand that some guys are willing to take a risk in order to knock a big player out because that could be the only big hand they win.


Exactly. I like bhcompy's reference to Negraneau. He is one of the few pro/math types that has a wicked "I'll take a stab at" streak in him.
 
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