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(Salon)   Hippie protesters propaganda worse than bad travel agents. Lets start a comment fight in honor of fb-   (salon.com) divider line 460
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3760 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2001 at 12:00 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-11-15 01:56:44 AM
this is in honor of Fb- ... where is Fb-!??!!??!
 
2001-11-15 02:00:26 AM
Yeah liberals are not necessarily hippies, some of them are tree huggers and pinko commies.

<flame mode="on">
 
2001-11-15 02:05:13 AM
Salon.com.. that about sums it up right there. What did you expect?
 
2001-11-15 02:13:53 AM
Pickrell: double props

I feel the need for sleep or I would type a lengthy reply. Maybe in the morning if this thread doesn't get seriously off topic (which i'm sure it will)
 
2001-11-15 02:21:05 AM
Right-wing republicans..."I'm sorry, but it just doesn't happen that way, this is how it really is"

What about supply side economics? Did that realism save the economy during the Reagan-Bush era?

How about Star Wars? Billions of dollars spent without any serious results.

Republicans do have some good ideas, like limiting the size of government, and I'm sure the Democrats have their share of stupid ideas, but saying that one side is unable to understand the issues because they have good intentions is just dumb.
 
??
2001-11-15 02:21:37 AM
Fb- mom grounded him from using the computer
 
2001-11-15 02:23:57 AM
...and they go around letting their kids name themselves...things like Picabo Street!
 
2001-11-15 02:47:02 AM
Bleh. This just doesn't have the fire and zealousness that a good Fb--inspired rant-fest thread has. Far too civil and unentertaining.

Oh well, he'll be on it a few hours and then things'll change. You just watch!

Or maybe the whiney "waah! Don't bomb people!" crowd just has a hard time advocating the return of the Taliban to the towns which were liberated by said bombings. I can see how that could be difficult.
 
2001-11-15 02:49:09 AM
Ahhh the bandwagon of victory. The left forgets that wars are terrible yet sometimes beneficial. Out of the chaos hopefully will come peace and order. Peace during Ramamdan? Aid flowing uninterrupted throughout the country before winter. Repression lifted and a "new" start possible under UN auspices. Far fewer casualities than anybody expected. Freedom denied for 5 years restored. If OBL and his "base" can be eliminated soon, then this will be a remarkable Thanksgiving. Fingers crossed.

"Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus."
 
2001-11-15 02:59:24 AM
I don't feel as if fb- is an "intellect" of any sort. It seems like he is a brain-washed slave with no sense of independance or "free thought". He follows the US Government as blindly as a group of sheep. Without question, he is gun-ho about supporting the government.

That's just how I feel. You can call me a hippy all you want, I don't mind.

Joke of the day:
What is the difference between a HIPPY and a TRAMPOLINE?

Answer: You take your BOOTS off before you JUMP on a TRAMPOLINE.
 
2001-11-15 03:05:37 AM
Oh for chrissakes. Just cuz I'm a leftist liberal, doesn't mean I don't want to see some serious Turban-headed ass kicked after 9/11. Geez. I'm no hippie, and I still cringe at Shrub's 90% approval rating (since he never got elected anyway). One forum I visit had a guy trying to antagonize its leftist members (basically saying they were all peaceniks), and....SURPRISE! Leftists like killing terrorists, too. Here's the forum link: GWBush.com
 
2001-11-15 03:09:29 AM
Rackrent .. that's what I've been smurfing about this whole time.
 
2001-11-15 03:14:51 AM
Hippies, whiners, peaceniks, liberal goombas. Whatever. It makes me laugh. Enough with the ad hominem attacks you boot-licking, angry white-male, redneck, redfaced nazi dickholes! Let's see your hoods! I know you're out there. *wink*

Seriously, all the real heroes were peaceniks. Jesus, Gandhi, MLK, Buddha.
 
2001-11-15 03:18:57 AM
Yeah, that worked out really well for them, didn't it Pigpen?
 
2001-11-15 03:35:36 AM
I believe 3 out of those 4 of those were murdered. So, I see what you're driving at. However, that doesn't diminish their example and legacy. It just illustrates how hostile the world can be to those who exemplify the human potential.

War is only a cowardly escape from the problems of peace. ~Thomas Mann

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. - Voltaire
 
2001-11-15 03:44:00 AM
Being new to Fark ,I've learned this. Both the left and right need to understand this and let it sink in and take root. You are ALL full of shiat. Both represent 15% each of all the noise, stereotypes, windage, problems in American politics. The GWBush.com link is just as bad as anything Falwell puts out. Your views are no doubt sincere and you are entitled to make them but the're fanatical. The remaining 70% will give and take, work together, agree to disagree and compromise with the belief that tomorrow is another battle to live and let live. That the enemy is the fanatic. We do the best we can because what else is there? We hope we get it right but we know there is no easy answer. It is the "we" and not the "me" which is why we have prevailed.
 
2001-11-15 03:45:41 AM
Nice Voltaire quote.

Sure, peace would be great. But the reality is that there are bad people in the world, and if everyone thought the way you do we'd be at their mercy. I think dying on your knees instead of fighting back is cowardly. Some people seem to have lost their instinct for survival. Here's a quote for you:

Edmund Blackadder: "Well, Baldrick, one of us is for the chop...You or me, in fact...Let's face it, Baldrick - it's you."

As for Thomas Mann, I wish we HAD a "problem of peace". Remember, we're the victims on this one...
 
2001-11-15 03:59:19 AM
So Jesus was a coward...hmmmmm...let me think about that one?
 
2001-11-15 04:07:14 AM
Th. Mann and Voltaire are the cowards I'd say.
Jesus was an innocent bystander.
 
2001-11-15 04:16:24 AM
EF: The U.S. has been the main instigator of war since the end of ww2 when we achieved primacy. There hasn't been peace mainly due to the U.S. sticking its gun into affairs around the world. The last 50 years has been nothing but the opposite of peace. There will most likely never be peace with the U.S. in the driver's seat. The only difference is now Americans can't ignore what's going on. It's hard to when they war has been brought to our doorstep. We have no respect for democracy and freedom. Look at our history in the mideast and get a picture of the origin of the hatred behind these attacks, http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=818. We have the same history in Central America. Assassinations of elected leaders. Support for brutal dictatorships. The proliferation of weapons, nukes, and chemical agents. The U.S. has been guilty of some of the worst atrocities imaginable. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention to history.
 
2001-11-15 04:17:09 AM
Yes there were victims in the WTC and now there are victims from the bombing in afghanistan...which is the lesser evil??

NONE...they are all victims of twisted powers.
 
2001-11-15 04:25:45 AM
Here's the section on the Taleban (our latest enemies) from that page I posted earlier:

"1995--Afghanistan
The U.S. covertly aids the Taliban militia in its drive to end the post-Soviet-Afghani civil war. The U.S. sides with fundamentalist forces in Afghanistan--but not in Egypt, Algeria, or Saudi Arabia, where they are tortured and suppressed--in a foreign theater of the U.S. drug war. The U.S. government and the fundamentalist opposition to drugs would conjoin in an alliance to drive out Central Asian opium production."

"Everywhere, the U.S. favors and aids the status quo of political repression and dictatorship. This hypocrisy is what fuels Arab and Muslim anger."

"He points out that in nearly every decade since the mid-fifties, a president of the United States has faced a challenge of a Muslim peril, an Arab or Muslim bogeyman that is everywhere and nowhere--Nasser, Khomeni, Khadafy, Saddam, and, now, bin Laden. And every time, the results have been the same: U.S. demonizes this single man, only to watch him grow into a popular hero of the Arab masses--the Arabic or Islamic David that dares to stand up and confront the U.S. oil dominion over the Arab world and the economic and political distortion that the US leaves in its wake."

Like I said, the US Government are nothing but thugs with a pretty flag to wave around. Our values don't mean anything to them.
 
2001-11-15 04:31:03 AM
fb must be boycotting this thread. The only other explanation is that he hasn't checked Fark in the last few mins. and we all know that isn't possible.
 
2001-11-15 04:31:06 AM
Poor Chris, he has finally flipped. Joined with the weasel right. Hippies indeed, wait until you see the anti-war demo in London Sunday.

This war is just beginning guys:

http://www.stratfor.com/home/0111142340.htm
 
2001-11-15 04:50:22 AM
Ozzie, since it's hard for a fictional character to be a coward I guess we can let jeebus off the hook.

Pigpen,
The US may have been wrong in some cases, but I think we've always gone out of our way to help other nations. Even those who immediately stab us in the back. Let's put it this way: If we ever tried to collect all the "loans" we've given the rest of the world through the years, I'm pretty sure most countries would be unable to pay. Hell, Britain (and others) still owe us cash from WW2! I think you paint too black a picture of us. No more Oliver Stone movies and Rage Against the Machine albums for you.

Harmonia,

Yeah, I cant wait to see a bunch of "peaceful" protesters start a riot. The 60's are over. Do you really think a bunch of college trust-fundies and aging hippies waving banners are going to make any difference? Grow up.
 
2001-11-15 05:06:33 AM
Ok then so if not fighting back is being a coward then how is this:
Afghanistan are getting the absolute shiat bombed outta them but if they were to fight back they would be labeled as being apart of the Taliban.....everyone has to stop steroetyping peeps and just take care of the jobs at hand...

Should there be NO retaliation:My opinion is yes America
has every right to take out Bin Laden and his twisted mob.

Should Innocent peeps suffer in the process:My opinion is NO definatly not.

Do I have an alternative solution:I wish I did just so all the bloodshed would stop...But these peeps that sit and put shiat on us Anti War peeps are in fact NOT better than us as there ONLY solution seems to be WAR...

I am Not Anti American so don't even go there but I do admit to being Anti War and am VERY proud to hold my head high while I announce it too.

ok enough of my verbal shiat...lol
 
2001-11-15 05:16:23 AM
Ozzie,
Don't you see? There's no longer a need to bomb anywhere near civilians. We've driven the taliban out into the mountains. We've toppled a horrible despotic regime in just over a month, and all the "end of the world" stuff that these protesters keep going on about NEVER HAPPENED. The people of Afghanistan seem pretty happy about the whole thing, so why are there still people staging peace protests? I'm sure they'll latch on to the next cause that comes along, but until then they're annoying as hell.
 
2001-11-15 05:20:54 AM
So the fact that it did happen is of no significance now...how would you feel if the same was said that the WTC is not happening now so get over it...easier said than done....the damage has already been done now by both parties and it was appalling to say the least.
 
2001-11-15 05:26:21 AM
Oh well more shiat to put behind us and learn from...but the problem still exists that is government bodies do not like something then WAR seems to be the only answer...very sad...open minded peeps are very hard to find and when they do voice their opinions they are thrown sarcastic comments,called hippies or just plain Morons...well I for one am not a moron and there are alot of my type out there so you war mongers are just gonna have to live with the fact that there are peeps out there that would lke alternatives to war..that is not such a big ask.
 
2001-11-15 05:27:47 AM
Hmmmm.... I have heard these arguments somewhere before....

Oh yes, I remember... on Fark about every day for the last month or so.

At least I know that I could sit and drink beer(*) and have a good time with probably all of you...as long as we don't talk about hippies, war, governments, or religion.

* If you are not a beer lover, then substitute favorite drink here.
 
2001-11-15 05:35:18 AM
This war is one of those wars that "we will stop at nothing to achieve our goals...and fark whatever or whoever gets in the way....twited demonic farks is the best way to describe war mongors...Funny though I have noticed that the majority of the peeps backing this war are armchair heroes that would shiat if they were called up to fight...at least we Anti war peeps would just refuse to go...and yes it takes guts to stand up and be counted as an Anti War person on fark cause all we cop is sarcastic bullshiat remarks by these armchair heroes.
 
2001-11-15 05:44:37 AM
Well Im going to *hug* my tree for a little while...bye for now..be back soon to annoy the fark out of all you twisted farking war mongors....lol
 
2001-11-15 05:52:54 AM
Harmonia,

"Yeah, I cant wait to see a bunch of "peaceful" protesters start a riot. The 60's are over. Do you really think a bunch of college trust-fundies and aging hippies waving banners are going to make any difference? Grow up."

We dont usually start the riot, in genoa the cops did that. BTW did you think we were a bunch of aging hippies in Genoa?

if you are so into war, join the army and put your money where your mouth is. Its not very brave posting here is it?

Or alternativly come to London on Sunday and see the demo, but no doubt you would rather be here spouting your bloodthirsty Bush propaganda. Just keep on letting CNN do your thinking for you fool.
 
2001-11-15 05:54:28 AM
. We've toppled a horrible despotic regime in just over a month,
And replaced it with a new horrible despotic regime. Wait until the western troops get there and we will see if teh slaughter of civilians stops.

remember vietnam?
 
2001-11-15 06:07:16 AM
no thanks
 
fb-
2001-11-15 06:07:23 AM
Harmonia,

Idiot. We replaced the Taliban regime with nothing. NA is filling a power void. The UN is coming in to create a government for Afghanistan. Quit being an idiot. Mmmkay?
 
2001-11-15 06:07:26 AM
no thanks
 
fb-
2001-11-15 06:11:36 AM
Hippes are puke. More today than ever. Let me see if I can sum up today's prep school trust fund hippies.

Hippies: US did bad things before!

Everybody Else: Yes, I agree, so?

Hippies: US did another bad thing before, remember!!?!

Everybody Else: Yes, I remember, so?

Hippies: US did a bad thing before!

Everybody Else: Yes, I told you I remember, what's
your point?

Hippies: US did a bad thing before, here's a link!

Everybody Else: Yeah, man I hear you! Do you have anything relevant to say about the situation, any
suggestions?

Hippies: US did a bad thing before, legalize pot!

Everybody Else: Dude, I heard you already! What can we do about improving the situation that bad thing caused?!?!

Hippies: US did a bad thing before!

Everybody Else: Man, I hear you!!!! What are you saying?!?! Should we surrender?!?! What?!? What are you trying to say!!!

Hippies: US did a bad thing before, here's that link again!

Everybody Else: Ok. Thanks.
 
2001-11-15 06:14:02 AM
Hippies? hehe did I just time warp to 1974? WTF
 
2001-11-15 06:17:03 AM
Ozzie, war is an unpleasant thing. What is your answer? As you are criticising the current path the US is taking, it's impeative on you to provide an alternative. Or are you fit to sit in your smug superiority because YOU are for peace at any price?

Freedom of speech does not imply freedom from criticism. You seem to be shocked ... shocked! that someone would dare to oppose you.

What would you have had the US do after 11 September?

Please refrain from a discussion of past US evils; I am well aware of our atrocious record in foreign policy, I am well aware of corporate exploitation of the Third World and of the working class in the First World. I am well aware of US and other meddling in the Third World; I am well aware that the Third World is more than capable of producing evil without our help. With our help, the evil becomes even greater.

So why is it that there is no terror group based in sub-Saharan Africa dedicated to the US's destruction? Where are the radical Nigerian Christians plotting bombing?

Why is it that all of the 19 who met Allah on 11 September were college graduates from the middle class or higher? I've YET to see an answer from the anti-war left to that question.

Ozzie, Harmonia, I want specific or even vague recommendations as to what US policy should have been post September 11. Should we withdraw from the Middle East entirely? Should we stop supporting Israel? Those are things we can do (or could have done) post September 11. One can argue the wisdom of doing this, but that is at least an idea, an alternative.

No whingeing about US imperialism, or how war is terrible, or about how we're murdering civilians (the Soviet bombing of Herat in 1984 killed SEVERAL TIMES as many civilians as we've killed in our entire campaign.)

Ozzie, would you rather people live under the Talib so they can live in an unjust peace? Just think, if we had paused for Ramadan, millions of people could have lived under continued Taliban rule instead of having the chance -- just a chance, mind you, for freedom.

I want ideas, I want REAL ALTERNATIVES from both of you and your entire lot.

Otherwise I will exercise my freedom of speech and call both of you complainers of the worst sort -- the ones who do not offer an alternative.

Shawn Pickrell
(A pale imitation of fb-. Merely filling in the gap, is all.)
 
fb-
2001-11-15 06:17:48 AM
Sometimes I really think you hippies and America haters are just sitting there rubbing your dirty sweaty hands together hoping for a humanitarian disaster. You shiat heads will be the first people do defend the civilians and damn the US for a missed bomb or insufficient food drops.

Now you are sitting there hoping for the NA to slaughter women and children (Which isn't happening no matter how hard you speculate) or hoping for people to starve. All so you can piss on the US some more. Now that we are rolling throught the country and getting closer and closer to an objective, you need to find something else to damn the US for. The old 'this is another Vietnam, thousands of Americans will be slaughtered or the bombing is ineffective' just doesn't cut it now does it?

Now you need a humanitarian disaster of some sort to piss and moan about how misguided the US is for putting the NA into power (Which I still don't understand how you got the idea that we put them in power or even gave them our blessing to be the new official government of Afghanistan.)

Just wait. The UN will be there and they can do their job of implementing a peacekeeping force and developing a government. That is their job remember? If that fails, who do you blame? Oh yeah, the US. That's who. As long as the UN gets the support they need from US and other nations, the UN has nobody but themselves to blame for humanitarian disasters or a botched government. It's their job and they should have been ready to do it.
 
2001-11-15 06:18:20 AM
All right! Fb- has arrived to save the day! ;)

Shawn Pickrell
 
2001-11-15 06:19:53 AM
The UN nearly fell apart over Rwanda. If they do poorly here, there may not be a United Nations.

Of course I recommend going to that bastion of human rights, the Sudan, for advice on how to properly form a post-Taliban government.

Shawn Pickrell
 
2001-11-15 06:21:16 AM
Eat red meat. Be strong and righteous. Bomb those who would bomb you. Tow the line. Think before you speak your mind. The pen is mightier than the sword of justice. Start at the begininning of the end. See the other side of the story. Bite the hand of glory. To forgive is humane. The wrath of the almighty god is dead. Turn the other cheek of the devil.
 
2001-11-15 06:27:21 AM
Harmonia: "Just keep on letting CNN do your thinking for you fool."

Ok Mr.T, but who said I was "into war"? I don't like it, but sometimes it's necessary. When you grow up you'll realize that.

Just answer this: If someone were to repeatedly strike you in the face, how long would it take you to hit them back? And if you do, does that make you a bloodthirsty warmonger?
 
2001-11-15 06:33:12 AM
I admit I do not have the most needed solution but let me return your question:do you have another alternative other than WAR?

cause you sure as hell sound as though you are hell bent on winning this war regardless of any casulties.

So please feel free to put foward your Alternatives to war if you have any which I doubt very much.

I did say Osama and his mob do need to answer for what they did to innocent people but will America and the other countries involved (including Austalia) have to answer to their takings of these lives? my guess is NO.
 
fb-
2001-11-15 06:34:53 AM
I understand many people think the NA is worse than the Taliban. I understand what history books say (yes, I've seen your links, save them please), but they haven't given us any reason to distrust them yet. They haven't slaughtered women and children and 100 executed soldiers does not a humanitarian disaster make. I think these guys know which way the wind is blowing and are smart enough to piss accordingly.

Now, I do understand your fears and am will never be able to disuade them. I understand.

In light of that, and your military background, what do you think we could have done better?

Do you have any suggestions for what the US should have done?

Should we have forced the NA out of Afghanistan with our own troops then attacked the Taliban with our own soldiers?

Were the Russians and we wrong for giving the NA blankets, uniforms, refurbished tanks and ammo, etc? Should we just have bombed and hoped the NA would have been strong enough to take them without any other help?

Should we parachute in troops and equipment and battle the NA for Kabul so we can avoid a humanitarian disaster?

What? What do you think? What constructive opinions do you have? I undertstand your fears and believe me, I've read your rawa links at least two dozen times. Do you have any suggestions?
 
2001-11-15 06:35:32 AM
The same could be said to you ENEMY FRANK...Just let the Government keep lieing to you and believe evrything they tell you....GULLABLE is the word for this.
 
2001-11-15 06:37:13 AM
You lot just dont know how to answer a point do you?

"shiat a point"
"Just call them hippies that will do it"

American (and British) intervention in the middle east has been a disaster, pointing that out does not excuse the WTO but it does involve working out how to stop similat events happening again. More intervention is like trying to put out a fire by pouring petrol on it.

"But its on fire, if you dont agree with putting petrol on it you are an anti-american hippie do nothing"

"As long as the UN gets the support they need from US and other nations"

Well perhaps the USA could pay its subs at least.

The WTO attack should make us all think. For the first time in history the third world has attcked the heart of its oppressors. I dont like how they did it and I think its counterproductive to kill civilians (unlke some of the Taleban mirror image warmongers here) but now its happened we have to look at how we can address the problems so we can ensure it never happens again. A Palestinain man whose child is killed feels the same pain as a New Yorker, we should value each the same.

This war is only just beginning, stage two is the West invading Afganistan while the bombers move to attack Iraq. There is a huge anti-war movement in Europe made up of trade unionists, anti-globalisation activists, muslims and millions of others. Call it a bunch of hippies if that helps you keep living without thinking, but I would say that a real human being judges what is being done in their name and tries to make the world they live in a better place.
 
fb-
2001-11-15 06:38:16 AM
Harmonia

Letting 'CNN think for you' is no better or worse than letting RAWA and the Green party think for you. It's no better than reading old leftists newspaper clipping from 25 years ago and letting them think for you.

You are not there. You have to get your news and information somewhere. Whether you get it from a national news source or a leftist group with their own extreme personal agenda's to cater to, all news will come with some bias. All you can do is try to be informed and take it all with a grain of salt when you try to form an opinion.

My personal news fav is the BBC though.
 
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