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(ABC)   Young girl accuses religious mentor of molestation. Community rallies in support - by calling the victim a "slut" and spitting on the girl and her family   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 358
    More: Sick, threat model, Hasidic Judaism, Jewish community, quibbles, Queens College, harassment  
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29158 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jun 2012 at 6:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-11 08:22:18 AM

PhiloeBedoe: You see? It's the Holy Power of Jesus Christ and that alone that gives a girl the strength to keep her whorish legs closed. Wise up and repent, pagans, lest all your daughters become fouled.


Then we should do something about this power, cause I like girls with whorish legs.
 
2012-06-11 08:23:21 AM

Splinshints

Abraham almost certainly wasn't a real person, so you'd be better off blaming the deranged lunatics who claim adherence to religion in general for all the damage they've done to humanity.


Then who was the guy in the big hat with the machine gun arms who freed the slaves by personally mowing down the entire Confederate Army?

His battle with the 200 foot tall Mecha-General Lee is one of my favorite paintings.
 
2012-06-11 08:23:43 AM

RobSeace: mamoru: sauce_jenkins: I would probably make a point here promoting secular ethics, but I officially give up. Have at it, world. I am too weary of this. Time to dock myself some IQ points and slobber whilst watching Jersey Shore reruns. Do any of you know where someone can get lobotomized on the cheap?

With proper sterilization, you could probably do it yourself with a nailgun. That would be the cheapest way. ;)

I think a drill works best...

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x467]


i58.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-11 08:24:42 AM

thenewmissus: Fissile: Having lived in the NYC area all my life, I had the horrible misfortune of running into these people on numerous occasions. Easily some of the most despicable people you'll ever see. According to them, secular laws don't apply to their hate cult(that's what it is). They only obey laws when they think it will bring unwanted scrutiny. Many don't bother with getting driver's licenses or car insurance. Get into an accident with a hasid and you can forget about recovering a dime. The police routinely allow them to get away with this, and much more serious crimes, because of their extensive political connections. A large percentage of hasids, if not a majority, collect welfare benefits. As a percentage they work the welfare system more than any other racial or ethnic group. Most of the men don't even bother looking of a job until they are 40 or 45 years old, at which time they have fathered 5-10 children. They send their children to "private" schools which are funded almost entirely with tax money. If you need any more proof as to their insanity, look at how they dress in July and August. Would any sane person dress in a wool frock coat when it's 95 degrees?

I find your comment very interesting. I have neer been to NYC (haven't had the time yet), but I have always wanted to go. I realize that NYC has it's own way of living but while I certainly won't take your reference as my only reference, I can't act like I haven't heard your side of it. I don't like to have an opinion based on a "group" of anyone but I must admit that it is more difficult not to do that when Hasid men all dress alike. Kinda like when you see a black man with baggy pants.


================

You think that I'm exaggerating about Hasidic insanity? Here is the latest pronouncement from God's Holy People.

Rabbi: Bicycle Riding is Evil
 
2012-06-11 08:32:00 AM

Frontspac: Happy Hours: KiplingKat872: God did not do this to her. A sick fark clothing himself in religious righteousness did this to her.

Do we know that he did anything to her?

Oh wait, innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to certain groups of people.

Slut until proven raped shouldn't apply either.

Molested or not, the community's treatment of the girl and situation is farking deplorable.

\Honestly, not that it matters, I think she's telling the truth. Given her situation and the community, why the hell would she lie?


This.
 
2012-06-11 08:32:12 AM

HotWingConspiracy: They've got quite the crime syndicate going in that community. Slum lords, organ brokers, pedo's. They all get cover from a good ol boys network that would make the KKK jealous. Have all the right people paid off via cash and votes as well.



What community are you talking about here?

The only organ broker stuff I know about has to do with non hasidic Syrian Jews and officials in NJ.
 
2012-06-11 08:32:17 AM
They see a little boy The priest says: "Wanna screw that little boy?" The Rabbi replies: "Out of what?"
 
2012-06-11 08:34:29 AM
We've got a similar issue here. The town next to me is one of the largest Hasidic communities outside of Israel. Lots of yeshivas.

They discourage anyone in their community going outside of the community for help or legal stuff. They want everything to be decided by the rabbis and other community leaders.

It's Shariah law in a big fur hat and wool coat. I don't mind that they want to have their own community here in a place that practices religious freedom. But they run the entire city and prevent others from living there or opening businesses there. They have no interest in being a part of the greater community. And, of course, they don't believe in following the law. Only the Torah and whatever the rabbis say. Secular law, they often feel, does not apply to them. However, they'll gladly play the system when it benefits them. A lot are on state assistance.

They really really do not like it when someone goes to the secular law for a problem. That, obviously, brings greater scrutiny to them, and their community, from the outside world. Which they do not want.
 
2012-06-11 08:38:26 AM

Fissile: You think that I'm exaggerating about Hasidic insanity? Here is the latest pronouncement from God's Holy People.


How does that support your claim that more are on welfare then any other ethnic group, fund private schools with public money, and their lack of driver's licenses or car insurance?

Don't get me wrong I have no tolerance for extremist religious people who would rather cover up their crimes then have the public know about them, but I don't think you can back up your above claims.
 
2012-06-11 08:42:43 AM

Heel It Down The Drain: If this were a insular Christian community, this story would be on the front page of the New York Times for at least a month


At least a month. With a yearly status update that lasted several weeks. Followed by a series of 'what have we learned from x' articles in perpetuity.
 
2012-06-11 08:43:03 AM

FedExPope: Darth_Lukecash: They actually had a case like this in LA when I first moved here. It was on the news mainly because it was a Rabbi at a school.

This isn't a religious issue, it's an adult who is abusing the power that was entrusted to them.

Religion is not the cause of evil. People do evil and good completely on their own.

Bull-farking-shiat. The molestation may not have been the result of religion, but the resulting ostracization by the community absolutely is. Wake the fark up. Because of this bullshiat superstition that demands their own special services for everything, they think this shiat should be handled internally. fark that. Stop coddling religion and let it die the death it so righty deserves.


Or, playing Devil's advocate, the problem is cultural and religion is used as the excuse/justification, but is not the actual cause.
 
2012-06-11 08:43:22 AM

Fissile: Having lived in the NYC area all my life, I had the horrible misfortune of running into these people on numerous occasions. Easily some of the most despicable people you'll ever see. According to them, secular laws don't apply to their hate cult(that's what it is). They only obey laws when they think it will bring unwanted scrutiny. Many don't bother with getting driver's licenses or car insurance. Get into an accident with a hasid and you can forget about recovering a dime. The police routinely allow them to get away with this, and much more serious crimes, because of their extensive political connections. A large percentage of hasids, if not a majority, collect welfare benefits. As a percentage they work the welfare system more than any other racial or ethnic group. Most of the men don't even bother looking of a job until they are 40 or 45 years old, at which time they have fathered 5-10 children. They send their children to "private" schools which are funded almost entirely with tax money. If you need any more proof as to their insanity, look at how they dress in July and August. Would any sane person dress in a wool frock coat when it's 95 degrees?


Also, the refusal to serve jury duty, forcing non-hasidic women to sit in the back of public buses ...
 
2012-06-11 08:44:04 AM
Lotta Jew hate here. Is it hard to hate people you don't have any experience with? I only ask because I haven't done it yet but I was looking into it. This seems like a great place to learn.

Before my mother-in-law died she confided in me that Jews had little horns, tiny ones and that if you looked you could see them. From an old woman that wouldn't know a jew from a tire iron.

I'm leaving. You should too.
 
2012-06-11 08:44:19 AM

mycatisposter: Those demanding religious tolerance are upset by this.


No tolerance for religions!

Mythologies are fine, but when people build religions around them, the religions always end up run by assholes.
 
2012-06-11 08:45:31 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Meanwhile..... the submission two links below this on one the main page has a subject line of --- Three Maryland co-eds strip down to their underwear for a midnight swim in the campus fountain. Ten passersby: *YOINK* -- and a 'source' listed as -- (3 coinslots in the fountain) --

I'm hoping that no one who voted up the above submission link, or fapped to it, or thought the 'coinslut/yoink' submission was funny....... has commented on (or will comment on) this new link in order to talk shiat about a community slut-shaming and spitting on a chick. These two links are two sides of the exact same coin. Both attitudes feed each other, and can not exist without one another.


Thank you for saying this.
 
2012-06-11 08:45:48 AM

liam76: HotWingConspiracy: They've got quite the crime syndicate going in that community. Slum lords, organ brokers, pedo's. They all get cover from a good ol boys network that would make the KKK jealous. Have all the right people paid off via cash and votes as well.


What community are you talking about here?

The only organ broker stuff I know about has to do with non hasidic Syrian Jews and officials in NJ.


Levy Izhak Rosenbaum (Isaac Rosenbaum), an Isralei citizen living in New York, admitted to brokering three illegal kidney transplants for payments of more than $120,000. He has been charged with three counts of acquiring, receiving and otherwise transferring human organs for valuable consideration for use in human transplantation; and one count of conspiracy to do the same.

Rosenbaum admitted that from January 2006 through February 2009, he conspired with others to provide a service, in exchange for large payments, to individuals seeking kidney transplants by obtaining kidneys from paid donors. Specifically, Rosenbaum admitted to arranging three transplants on behalf of New Jersey residents that took place in December 2006, September 2008 and February 2009. Rosenbaum admitted that he was paid approximately $120,000, $150,000 and $140,000, respectively on behalf of these three recipients.
 
2012-06-11 08:46:43 AM
"The girl started dressing immodestly."

TTIUWP.
 
2012-06-11 08:47:06 AM

liam76: ut I don't think you can back up your above claims.


A cursory Googling of the terms "Hasidic" and "welfare" returned the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York#Large_families

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/21/nyregion/religion-and-welfare-shape - economics-for-the-hasidim.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Seems to paint a more complex picture than Fissile is portraying, and a slightly different one- Kiryas Joel is in rural NY State, and not NYC. However it seems likely that this is where his anecdotal assertion finds it's origin.

Some truth, some misinformation, very intriguing.
 
2012-06-11 08:47:53 AM

Marcintosh: Lotta Jew religious extremist hate here.


Yes. As there should be. This could be an article on fundies, or any other psycho sub-set of religion. This is NOT about a racist attitude towards any ethnicity.
 
2012-06-11 08:47:58 AM

Marcintosh: Lotta Jew primitive tribalist hate here.


Who cares what they label themselves?
 
2012-06-11 08:48:24 AM
The girl, now 17, was sent to Weberman at age 12 because she'd been asking theological questions and he had a reputation for helping people back on the spiritual path. He often counseled people, though he had no formal training. But during sessions, authorities say, he forced the girl to perform sex acts.

Even as a child, she figured out the logical inconsistencies inherent in the belief system of her backwards community. She started asking questions that challenged their blind, unthinking faith, so they shipped her off to a special school to be reeducated. While at the school she was repeatedly sexually abused, as they tried to "get her back on the path."

There is no way this is an isolated incident. This girl is just the first person to be strong enough to speak up about it.
 
2012-06-11 08:48:56 AM

fickenchucker: FARK a separate legal system. Jew, Christian, or Arab, live under American law or GTFO.


It's more supplemental law than separate. Obey the federal law, then also state law, then also local law, then also [insert fundamentalist religion] law on top of all of that, which usually means dressing funny and food prohibitions. And apparently carte blanche to screw children.
 
2012-06-11 08:49:06 AM

This About That: Conservatives.


Try again, Jews vote democrat.
 
2012-06-11 08:50:23 AM

Methadone Girls: *shakes head* this shouldn't surprise me any more.


None of these stories do anymore. I know someone personally who was mixed up in a religious cult, and her poor kids still are. She says it's just as bad as you hear in the news stories. She had a hell of a time escaping from it, and she still can't get the kids away. The wackos seem to be running, or at least influencing, the courts and everything around there.

The only thing that shocks me is that the woman is still a regular church-goer.

Religious weirdos are weird.
 
2012-06-11 08:50:26 AM
The Satmars are a particular brand of extremist that should not necessarily be confused with all orthodox Jews. They are constantly hitting people with their minivans, harassing women in the neighborhood, threatening bikers and they are generally on welfare. They have abused the separation of church and state in Kiryas Joel upstate, and to a lesser extent around Williamsburg.
 
2012-06-11 08:50:32 AM

Paris1127: Oy gevalt, the chutzpah of these people...

Dear Orthodox Jews, as someone raised in Traditional Conservative Judaism, let me make a suggestion: let G-d judge him when he's dead, let the People of the State of New York judge him when he's alive.

/gave up on religion years ago


i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-06-11 08:50:48 AM

Bullseyed: This About That: Conservatives.

Try again, Jews vote democrat.


All of them?
 
2012-06-11 08:51:51 AM

Bullseyed: This About That: Conservatives.

Try again, Jews vote democrat.


Right, so that makes Orthodox Jews liberal.

HURRRRR
 
2012-06-11 08:52:07 AM
So many close minded people in this thread. Not to mention the utter lack of professionalism in the article. So much for innocent until proven guilty.


The abuse went on for nearly three years before the schoolgirl told anyone that her spiritual adviser was molesting her while he was supposed to be mentoring her about her religion, authorities said.

But during sessions, authorities say, he forced the girl to perform sex acts.
 
2012-06-11 08:52:56 AM

cryinoutloud: The only thing that shocks me is that the woman is still a regular church-goer.

Religious weirdos are weird


Well said.
 
2012-06-11 08:53:23 AM
Art imitates life imitates art. It's like Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter but with no pregnancy.
 
2012-06-11 08:54:39 AM

Bullseyed: So much for innocent until proven guilty.


Again, not that it excuses it, but what about the entire community calling the girl a slut until this guy is proven innocent?

Cuts both ways, my friend.
 
2012-06-11 09:00:42 AM
Maybe Hitler was right all along.
 
2012-06-11 09:01:24 AM

imontheinternet:

There is no way this is an isolated incident. This girl is just the first person to be strong enough to speak up about it.


Bless her heart, though she's far from being the first to speak out.

Link

Link
 
2012-06-11 09:01:25 AM

Darth_Lukecash: This isn't a religious issue, it's an adult who is abusing the power that was entrusted to them.

Religion is not the cause of evil. People do evil and good completely on their own.


It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you claimed. The abuse in itself only happened because the aggressor had access to children by using religion as a pretext, and an entire religious community turned against and ostracised the victim and the victim's family just because the aggressor happens to be a religious authority.

So, it's clear that these evil people do evil only because religion facilitates it, and in turn they can manipulate an entire community formed by good people to actually do evil in spite of actually believing they are doing good.

If you took religion out of the equation then this whole mess would never happened in the first place. So, it's at the very least disingenuous to claim that this isn't a religious issue.
 
2012-06-11 09:03:52 AM

SkunkWerks: Bullseyed: This About That: Conservatives.

Try again, Jews vote democrat.

All of them?


See also: David Storobin (R), newly elected Brooklyn State Senator.
 
2012-06-11 09:04:06 AM

Ed Grubermann: Mid_mo_mad_man: r1niceboy: Anti-semitism accusations in 5.....4.....3......2.....

Anti-Jew not Anti-Semite. No Arabs or Samaritans mentioned

Anti-Semistism means "hatred of Jews". Read, lest you continue to sound like an idiot or a racist.


No not racist just knows what word Semite means
 
2012-06-11 09:05:22 AM
"They have their own ambulances and schools, called yeshivas, their own civilian police and rabbinical courts. Members are encouraged to first speak to a rabbi before going to secular authorities - and as a result, cases rarely make it to outside law enforcement."

Really, this is still going on? Just like money is buying the right for radicals to have their
neighborhoods closed off and sharia law implemented.

They should do as the Amish and ALLOW FREE WILL! When Amish kids turn 16-18 they can leave their parents and go out into the world and decide if they want that or the Amish life style, it called choice.
 
2012-06-11 09:07:14 AM
why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.
 
2012-06-11 09:07:36 AM

RexTalionis: PhiloeBedoe: You see? It's the Holy Power of Jesus Christ and that alone that gives a girl the strength to keep her whorish legs closed. Wise up and repent, pagans, lest all your daughters become fouled.

The people in the article are all Jews.


That is the problem.....he, he
 
2012-06-11 09:09:22 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.


So you think all the kids you touch are in to it, eh?
 
2012-06-11 09:10:21 AM

Happy Hours: KiplingKat872: God did not do this to her. A sick fark clothing himself in religious righteousness did this to her.

Do we know that he did anything to her?

Oh wait, innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to certain groups of people.


[sigh]

You're indulging in the same fallacy as the guy who thinks "freedom of speech" means his employer is "violating his rights" when the guy talks all kinds of trash about his boss and company on Facebook and then gets canned.

"Freedom of speech" protects you from government arresting you or penalizing you for what you say.

Likewise, "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean that if you're accused of child molestation your boss can't fire you from your job caring for small children. If your boss thinks you probably did it, or doesn't want to take the chance, she can fire your butt.

"Innocent until proven guilty" means government cannot presume your guilt until and unless a jury proves it. Note that even so, if you're accused of a serious enough crime, government can hold you in prison without granting bail until a jury trial finishes. That "presumption of innocence" even by government has some limits to it.

Your spouse doesn't have to presume you're innocent. Your accuser doesn't have to presume you're innocent. Neither do your friends. Neither does your community. The members of the jury do, but that doesn't mean the community has to hold an open mind to preserve potential jurors. If the community doesn't hold an open mind, the defense lawyer can petition the judge and the judge can move the trial somewhere where people don't care enough about you to have formed an opinion yet. Or where they can find some jurors who haven't heard of you.

So no, "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to any groups of people or to individuals---because we're individual people, not governments, and not jurors sitting on a case.

If we want to reserve judgment we can. But if we want to form an opinion of what we think happened, we can do that, too.

And usually, people should do that. We don't really want people going around letting folks accused of DUI, or domestic violence, or rape, or murder, or child molestation, have access to their cars and families willy-nilly just because they haven't been convicted yet.

We want people to use their common sense about whether they think the accused person actually did or does that sort of thing and is dangerous to be around, and to avoid avoidable problems.

Nobody wants their sister dating the next Ted Bundy because he's free while the trial's going on, "innocent until proven guilty," and "it would be wrong for her to pre-judge the man, so she practically has to go out with him---because if he wasn't accused, he's her type and she'd go out with him---so just as a matter of being true to her ideals--"

Yeah. So then your sister is dead from a terminal lack of common farking sense.

So if you're in that community, are you gonna send your ten year old daughter to be counseled by this mother-farker because "innocent until proven guilty"? Really? If so, then you're a mother-farking bastard who ought to be strung up from a tree--because common sense says he's likely enough to have done it that you don't let him near a young girl.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is for government.
 
2012-06-11 09:11:13 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.

So you think all the kids you touch are in to it, eh?


oh i forgot your supposed to let them molest you until 17 then you report em because you can get the most monetary compensation.
 
2012-06-11 09:12:32 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: HotWingConspiracy: Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.

So you think all the kids you touch are in to it, eh?

oh i forgot your supposed to let them molest you until 17 then you report em because you can get the most monetary compensation.


So you kill your victims at 16 then?
 
2012-06-11 09:14:08 AM

Two16: Paris1127: Oy gevalt, the chutzpah of these people...

Dear Orthodox Jews, as someone raised in Traditional Conservative Judaism, let me make a suggestion: let G-d judge him when he's dead, let the People of the State of New York judge him when he's alive.

/gave up on religion years ago

[i49.tinypic.com image 500x375]


probably meant that they gave up on organized religion, but is still somewhat a believer.

That, or needs a new keyboard.
 
2012-06-11 09:15:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Jon iz teh kewl: HotWingConspiracy: Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.

So you think all the kids you touch are in to it, eh?

oh i forgot your supposed to let them molest you until 17 then you report em because you can get the most monetary compensation.

So you kill your victims at 16 then?


cut to the chase i date 1 year olds
 
2012-06-11 09:15:23 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.


Well, they have their own ambulances... betting they operate their own 911 switchboard too.


Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?


Jon iz teh kewl: or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.


Yeah, I know! It's like the girl was totally living in a community that stops just short of arranging a torch and pitchfork mob to "comfort" the victims of such things. It's not like she had to think hard about it for three years or anything, or weigh the very real repercussions of what reprisals may result if she did speak out-

oh, wait-
 
2012-06-11 09:16:40 AM

jaylectricity: FTA: "They think that anyone who turns over anyone to the outside authorities is committing a transgression to the community at large," said Samuel Heilman, a professor of Jewish studies at Queens College.

That's not any different than gangsters saying, "Snitches get stitches."


Yup. Don't matter whether it's the darky in the park or the playas wit' da peyos.
 
2012-06-11 09:19:31 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: why not let them know about it the first 12 times.
why wait 3 WHOLE YEARS?
are u telling me u didn't have access to a telephone with 911.

or wait it wasn't molestation but sex.


i.chzbgr.com
/Hot
 
2012-06-11 09:19:46 AM

KimNorth: "They have their own ambulances and schools, called yeshivas, their own civilian police and rabbinical courts. Members are encouraged to first speak to a rabbi before going to secular authorities - and as a result, cases rarely make it to outside law enforcement."

Really, this is still going on? Just like money is buying the right for radicals to have their
neighborhoods closed off and sharia law implemented.

They should do as the Amish and ALLOW FREE WILL! When Amish kids turn 16-18 they can leave their parents and go out into the world and decide if they want that or the Amish life style, it called choice.


Interesting that you bring up Amish in a molesting thread. In Seymour Missouri an Amish community had several of its members arrested. A member of the sect was raping his daughters. The hierchary knew of it refused to report him and now they are awaiting trail like him. Helps that we have manadorty reporting laws.
 
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