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(WHNS Fox 21)   Police departments outraged, OUTRAGED that the DOD would like them to account for all stuff like machine guns and helicopters the military gave them for free, you know like the police agreed to do when they accepted them   (foxcarolina.com) divider line 229
    More: Asinine, DoD, electronic records, armoured personnel carriers, Battle Creek, Humvees, U.S. territory, Michigan National Guard, paper of record  
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12849 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2012 at 7:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-10 04:18:29 PM  
The defense agency's Law Enforcement Support Office provides police and sheriffs' departments with equipment ranging from guns and helicopters to computers and air conditioners and even toilet paper.

I'll send 'em the paperwork to track that last item's use.
 
2012-06-10 04:44:47 PM  
Wow. How do citizens get in on this surplus program? I'd be willing to pay for a humvee.
 
2012-06-10 04:59:57 PM  
I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...
 
2012-06-10 05:10:23 PM  
Did subby read the article he linked to? The only issue the cops seem to have with the DOD is that they're being asked to submit paperwork that they've already submitted.
 
2012-06-10 05:18:13 PM  

Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...


They've got to protect the 1% from their libertarian policies somehow.
 
2012-06-10 05:19:10 PM  
You'd think toilet paper would be one of those things they'd keep around since they know it'll get used eventually.
 
2012-06-10 05:23:46 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Did subby read the article he linked to? The only issue the cops seem to have with the DOD is that they're being asked to submit paperwork that they've already submitted.


then STFU, redo the inventory and resub the paperwork. what's the problem?
 
2012-06-10 05:30:12 PM  

Weaver95: CruiserTwelve: Did subby read the article he linked to? The only issue the cops seem to have with the DOD is that they're being asked to submit paperwork that they've already submitted.

then STFU, redo the inventory and resub the paperwork. what's the problem?


His default mode is defend the police no matter what.
 
2012-06-10 05:30:32 PM  

Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...


I'm OK with "mil-spec" because some of that stuff is found in regular goods. Well, my Bushmaster says it's "mil-spec" somewhere in the manual.

But, yes, they should be restricted to Title I weapons and if they want Title II stuff buy it from the same restricted pool that regular citizens have available.
 
2012-06-10 05:34:17 PM  

Weaver95: then STFU, redo the inventory and resub the paperwork. what's the problem?


The fact that they have to redo the inventory and resubmit the paperwork.
 
2012-06-10 05:35:11 PM  

GAT_00: His default mode is defend the police no matter what.


Well you're wrong but I don't care enough to argue with you.
 
2012-06-10 05:36:25 PM  

CruiserTwelve: GAT_00: His default mode is defend the police no matter what.

Well you're wrong but I don't care enough to argue with you.


Yeah, it's not like you only ever do that and the only thing you're known for here is irrationally defending cops no matter what is going on.
 
2012-06-10 05:41:26 PM  

GAT_00: Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...

They've got to protect the 1% from the libertarian effects of their authoritarian drug policies somehow.


I think that is a bit closer to the truth.
 
2012-06-10 05:47:06 PM  

Wanebo: The defense agency's Law Enforcement Support Office provides police and sheriffs' departments with equipment ranging from guns and helicopters to computers and air conditioners and even toilet paper.

I'll send 'em the paperwork to track that last item's use.


That generates its own paper trail. Often from a shoe.
 
2012-06-10 05:48:20 PM  

violentsalvation: GAT_00: Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...

They've got to protect the 1% from the libertarian effects of their authoritarian drug policies somehow.

I think that is a bit closer to the truth.


Careful now. Fark's most vocal drug warrior doesn't like to be reminded that the policies he supports directly lead to politics he hates.
 
2012-06-10 05:51:19 PM  

violentsalvation: GAT_00: Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...

They've got to protect the 1% from the libertarian effects of their authoritarian drug policies somehow.

I think that is a bit closer to the truth.


Considering I was talking about worker protests, not really. That's a different thing all together.
 
2012-06-10 06:19:44 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Weaver95: then STFU, redo the inventory and resub the paperwork. what's the problem?

The fact that they have to redo the inventory and resubmit the paperwork.


so you clock some overtime on a slow saturday afternoon until it's done. probably get it done inside of two weekends at most. seriously - it's not difficult. time consuming perhaps...and somewhat annoying...but STFU and do it. then photo copy the paperwork before you send it in this time.

again I ask you - why is this a problem?
 
2012-06-10 06:20:29 PM  
Can't they just send the file that they already sent?
 
2012-06-10 06:23:49 PM  

Roja Herring: Can't they just send the file that they already sent?


no kidding. this is a no brainer. even if the local cop shop was so incompetent that they lost the original data it wouldn't take long to redo the inventory. one or two weekends at most.

the only reason I can think of for someone to be biatchy about this is 1. they're just plain lazy or 2. they've suffered some significant 'off the books' inventory losses and really don't want anyone to find out about it....
 
2012-06-10 06:30:22 PM  

Weaver95: the only reason I can think of for someone to be biatchy about this is 1. they're just plain lazy or 2. they've suffered some significant 'off the books' inventory losses and really don't want anyone to find out about it....


My money is on option number two. I'm sure an awful lot of that inventory is the in personal possession of various officers or their friends.
 
2012-06-10 06:31:55 PM  

Aarontology: Weaver95: the only reason I can think of for someone to be biatchy about this is 1. they're just plain lazy or 2. they've suffered some significant 'off the books' inventory losses and really don't want anyone to find out about it....

My money is on option number two. I'm sure an awful lot of that inventory is the in personal possession of various officers or their friends.


I really hope that inventory of mil-spec weapons and gear didn't end up walking home with officers and/or senior cop shop officials. that's all kinds of federal crime/ATF involvement right there.
 
2012-06-10 06:34:21 PM  

Weaver95: I really hope that inventory of mil-spec weapons and gear didn't end up walking home with officers and/or senior cop shop officials. that's all kinds of federal crime/ATF involvement right there.


It'd be an easy way around the procedures the rest of us have to follow to get certain firearms or equipment, that's for sure.
 
2012-06-10 06:34:39 PM  

Weaver95: so you clock some overtime on a slow saturday afternoon until it's done. probably get it done inside of two weekends at most. seriously - it's not difficult. time consuming perhaps...and somewhat annoying...but STFU and do it. then photo copy the paperwork before you send it in this time.

again I ask you - why is this a problem?


These are police departments we're talking about. Saturday afternoons are not slow.

I can understand the frustrations of these agencies. Police equipment isn't all stacked up neatly in a warehouse. That stuff is in police cars, at cops' homes, in their lockers, distributed among different district stations and scattered all over. It's difficult at best to have to physically count each item. Their contract with the feds probably requires a bi-annual inventory, and they're likely upset over being required to do an unexpected and time consuming inventory.

What concerns me more is the agency indicated in the article as having distributed stuff to non-police employees and intending to sell some of the stuff. I would think that was a direct violation of the contract.

I also have a problem with certain military items being given to municipal police agencies. That contributes to the "urban soldier" mentality that has become dominant in some agencies.
 
2012-06-10 06:44:22 PM  

CruiserTwelve: It's difficult at best to have to physically count each item. Their contract with the feds probably requires a bi-annual inventory, and they're likely upset over being required to do an unexpected and time consuming inventory.


Why exactly should the police be free and loose with the people's money? If that's wrong for every other government agency, why does it not apply to the police? Oh, right.

GAT_00: Yeah, it's not like you only ever do that and the only thing you're known for here is irrationally defending cops no matter what is going on.

 
2012-06-10 06:52:10 PM  

GAT_00: Why exactly should the police be free and loose with the people's money? If that's wrong for every other government agency, why does it not apply to the police? Oh, right.


Sheesh.... Griping because you have to do an unexpected, time-consuming inventory after having already done an inventory isn't exactly being "free and loose with the people's money."

Except in your mind, apparently.

Did you even bother to read my entire post?
 
2012-06-10 06:56:40 PM  

Aarontology: You'd think toilet paper would be one of those things they'd keep around since they know it'll get used eventually.


*shrug* maybe it was taking up warehouse space needed for something else. The DLA is a clearing house for "I don't want this right now, get it out of my responsibility".
 
2012-06-10 07:09:41 PM  

CruiserTwelve:
These are police departments we're talking about. Saturday afternoons are not slow.


i'm sure you can find someone who's willing to come in and put in the time to do another inventory. its easy OT, won't take long and hey - its mandatory!

suck it up cupcake and do your inventory.
 
2012-06-10 07:33:13 PM  

Weaver95: CruiserTwelve:
These are police departments we're talking about. Saturday afternoons are not slow.

i'm sure you can find someone who's willing to come in and put in the time to do another inventory. its easy OT, won't take long and hey - its mandatory!

suck it up cupcake and do your inventory.


It can't be that hard either. Let's mentally run this through. Cops have standard equipment they carry at all times. Grab all of that from a checklist when they come in. Walk out to their car and go through the trunk quick. There's got to be a standard list of things in there, another quick checklist. Add anything else. Stop at desks and lockers and do the same. That is at the absolute worst one hour a person, probably closer to 15 minutes. That's a good portion of the inventory. Most of the rest should be organized in a handful of rooms, and so checking everything is relatively easy.

For an entire department, it's grabbing everyone one day when they come in, and a couple of rookies spending a shift in a inventory room.

It can't be that hard unless they are completely incompetent with equipment.
 
2012-06-10 08:00:05 PM  

GAT_00:

It can't be that hard unless they are completely incompetent with equipment.


I've had to pitch in and help inventory every last item in the main computer room before. NOT fun...but with a bit of organization, planning and forethought its not at all difficult. it won't even take all that long. and in this case, they're only required to inventory the stuff they got from the Fed gov. Now...unless the cop shops picked up WAY more mil-spec gear than we've been told, there simply cannot be all that much to inventory. How many heavy machine guns and mortar cannon did the cops get from the army anyways!?

geez guys. suck it up, do the inventory again and this time keep track of where you put the serial numbers in case the feds lose your paperwork again.
 
2012-06-10 08:02:52 PM  

Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...


This. If things in a city get so OOC that you need APC's and anti-tank rockets, its probably time to call in the National Guard.
 
2012-06-10 08:03:20 PM  
"The problem, according to the states: At least some of them had already turned over that information."

Then print out the f*cking form again and mail it again. Sorry if that cuts into your doughnut time.
 
2012-06-10 08:03:31 PM  
Lots of this stuff ended up in places other than with the police departments.
 
2012-06-10 08:05:45 PM  

Old enough to know better: Weaver95: I still think that cop shops should NEVER be given mil-spec gear under any circumstances. But i'm weird like that...

This. If things in a city get so OOC that you need APC's and anti-tank rockets, its probably time to call in the National Guard.


if you give someone a tank then they're gonna go looking for a situation in which to USE said tank. And that's just not something cops need to be doing.
 
2012-06-10 08:06:38 PM  

CruiserTwelve: I can understand the frustrations of these agencies. Police equipment isn't all stacked up neatly in a warehouse. That stuff is in police cars, at cops' homes, in their lockers, distributed among different district stations and scattered all over. It's difficult at best to have to physically count each item. Their contract with the feds probably requires a bi-annual inventory, and they're likely upset over being required to do an unexpected and time consuming inventory.


Bullshiat. I work in the real world. If I can't provide this information in 3 minutes notice - then I should be fired. Inventory management is not rocket science.

/also - police departments shouldn't be given this type of equipment in the first place
 
ecl
2012-06-10 08:08:40 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Weaver95: so you clock some overtime on a slow saturday afternoon until it's done. probably get it done inside of two weekends at most. seriously - it's not difficult. time consuming perhaps...and somewhat annoying...but STFU and do it. then photo copy the paperwork before you send it in this time.

again I ask you - why is this a problem?

These are police departments we're talking about. Saturday afternoons are not slow.

I can understand the frustrations of these agencies. Police equipment isn't all stacked up neatly in a warehouse. That stuff is in police cars, at cops' homes, in their lockers, distributed among different district stations and scattered all over. It's difficult at best to have to physically count each item. Their contract with the feds probably requires a bi-annual inventory, and they're likely upset over being required to do an unexpected and time consuming inventory.

What concerns me more is the agency indicated in the article as having distributed stuff to non-police employees and intending to sell some of the stuff. I would think that was a direct violation of the contract.

I also have a problem with certain military items being given to municipal police agencies. That contributes to the "urban soldier" mentality that has become dominant in some agencies.


Yeah all the cops around here have highways and sideroads to sit and give traffic tickets at.
 
2012-06-10 08:09:28 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Wow. How do citizens get in on this surplus program? I'd be willing to pay for a humvee.


You can usually get one of those around the seedier areas of town. Just look for the scantily clad women hanging on street corners. Price is typically negotiable for just a humvee. Or so I have heard....
 
2012-06-10 08:09:44 PM  
My little college town just acquired two HMMWVs for the cost of shipping. I called the city manager and asked him to put in another order for me. He declined, damnnit.

/ already have a '45 military jeep
//would love a 90's military hummer
 
2012-06-10 08:10:12 PM  
given the outrage over what should be pretty mundane accounting work....My money is on some military-grade equipment turned up in a criminal investigation. That investigation turned to the Pentagon to track the source down, and now, shiat is about to hit the fan

so, DOD knows where the stuff is *supposed* to be, and now it's time for a police department to either start a cover-up in earnest, or invite in Internal Affairs.
 
2012-06-10 08:11:26 PM  

Asa Phelps: Aarontology: You'd think toilet paper would be one of those things they'd keep around since they know it'll get used eventually.

*shrug* maybe it was taking up warehouse space needed for something else. The DLA is a clearing house for "I don't want this right now, get it out of my responsibility".


I suppose, but at the same time you'd think delivery of the toilet paper would be more trouble than just stacking it some random empty space. Or even just telling employees to take it home.

But meh. Missing tp isn't really a problem. Hardware, yes. TP, no.
 
2012-06-10 08:11:54 PM  
Wait a minute. Why does the DOD have billions of dollars in excess inventory that it simply "gives" away? Why was this stuff ordered in the first place? What happen to the JIT mantra? Sounds like sloppy procurement to me. The DOD orders too many weapons, then ships them at no cost to local police departments. WTF? Really, WTF?

/Paperwork ain't the problem.
 
2012-06-10 08:12:08 PM  
Here's another point to consider - this is MILITARY GRADE weaponry and equipment. the local cops damn well better know where each and every one of those items is at any given point in time. If the Fed calls them up at 4am on a tuesday morning and asks them to track down where 2 specific MILITARY GRADE weapons are located...then the local cops better be able to answer that question within the hour or they should have all their spiffy military toys taken away from them.

you guys wanna play with the big guns then you get to put up with strict inventory control regulations and random spot checks on your armory. don't like it? then don't take the toys off the shelf in the first place.
 
2012-06-10 08:12:09 PM  
...that is also why "just print the paperwork off and send it in again" is not an acceptable answer. The mood here is "we'd like you to count it again and tell us what you have on hand right now". There appears to be a crime but we'd like to know who is at fault before we hand out indictments.
 
2012-06-10 08:12:36 PM  

FuturePastNow: "The problem, according to the states: At least some of them had already turned over that information."

Then print out the f*cking form again and mail it again. Sorry if that cuts into your doughnut time.


That was the part that confused me too. Why don't they just re-print or generate whatever they originally submitted, resubmit that and wash your hands of this altogether? That seems far simpler than biatching about it and doing inventory all over again.

/dnrtwholefa
 
2012-06-10 08:14:34 PM  
If the inventory has already been done they should have no problem producing the documents. I have back up for everything thing I do just for CYA purposes I would hope the agency that my tax dollars pay for would also be required to have a minimal form of redundancy and accountability also.
 
2012-06-10 08:16:04 PM  
Meh, the ATF has been hammerng civilian operations for years with paperwork snafus. That's for guns we pay for with our own money.

Not feeling sorry for the cops being harassed by the DOD over gifts.
 
2012-06-10 08:17:24 PM  

Do_wacka_Do: Lots of this stuff ended up in places other than with the police departments.


looks like that would be the ones balking the most. their puling means nothing, they should be held accountable. the PDs who already submitted their data may merely resubmit. those who object should be scrutinized. no less would be accepted if it were the private business sector being inventoried.
 
2012-06-10 08:18:50 PM  
Nothing wrong with the cops. A whole lot wrong with the Congress that approved these kinds of things via the "Patriot" Acts, Omnibus Drug Act, and other policy changes they allowed. No way these departments should be militarized. If there is a military threat, call the military, don't give military weapons to unionized non-UCMJ police departments. Recall these weapons.
 
2012-06-10 08:19:26 PM  

Weaver95: CruiserTwelve: Weaver95: then STFU, redo the inventory and resub the paperwork. what's the problem?

The fact that they have to redo the inventory and resubmit the paperwork.

so you clock some overtime on a slow saturday afternoon until it's done. probably get it done inside of two weekends at most. seriously - it's not difficult. time consuming perhaps...and somewhat annoying...but STFU and do it. then photo copy the paperwork before you send it in this time.

again I ask you - why is this a problem?


Why don't they just do it four times? What's the problem?

How about 18 times? It's just extra work and overtime for no reason, right?
 
2012-06-10 08:23:44 PM  

way south: Meh, the ATF has been hammerng civilian operations for years with paperwork snafus. That's for guns we pay for with our own money.

Not feeling sorry for the cops being harassed by the DOD over gifts.


No shiat. FFLs are required to keep PERFECT acquisition/disposition records for every firearm held overnight or longer for more than a DECADE and be able to produce them within 24 hours of an ATF request. Failure to do so is Not Good.

Why should LE be any different?

/sorry for caps
//mobile
 
2012-06-10 08:23:46 PM  

GAT_00: GAT_00: Yeah, it's not like you only ever do that and the only thing you're known for here is irrationally defending cops no matter what is going on.


CruiserTwelve: What concerns me more is the agency indicated in the article as having distributed stuff to non-police employees and intending to sell some of the stuff. I would think that was a direct violation of the contract.


CruiserTwelve: I also have a problem with certain military items being given to municipal police agencies. That contributes to the "urban soldier" mentality that has become dominant in some agencies.


Thought you might have *cough* purposefully *cough* overlooked those.
 
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