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(Fox News)   Politician says government should decide what people get paid not the market. but it's a Republican saying this so it's ok   (foxnews.com) divider line 62
    More: Asinine, Indiana Governor, Republican, National Education Association, federalisms, Dennis Van Roekel  
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2682 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jun 2012 at 3:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-10 01:21:10 PM
just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??

bwhahahahahaha
got to love the hypocrisy
 
2012-06-10 01:39:35 PM
In completely unrelated news, Lobbyists now earning record profits.
 
2012-06-10 01:40:47 PM
So long as he likewise rules out Chambers of Commerce and industrial associations as well. That's the other side of the coin. As long as management organizes--and we are certainly seeing how those organizations are at work with Walker--then the workers need to have their own representatives. They pay into the union to give them the leverage that management and trade associations have as well. They represent different interests, but if you only allow management the right to organize and petition, then you unbalance things in a dangerous sense.
 
2012-06-10 01:47:05 PM
Le sigh

I foresaw this bullshiat. The win that the GOP got in WI has embolden them.
 
2012-06-10 02:15:58 PM
Someone give me a summary of the article. I don't want to give Fox News a click.
 
2012-06-10 02:23:04 PM

themindiswatching: Someone give me a summary of the article. I don't want to give Fox News a click.


No

Click the damned link if you want to know what it is about
 
2012-06-10 02:52:33 PM

themindiswatching: Someone give me a summary of the article. I don't want to give Fox News a click.


Unions are bad...mmmkay?
 
2012-06-10 03:06:16 PM

Lionel Mandrake: themindiswatching: Someone give me a summary of the article. I don't want to give Fox News a click.

Unions are bad...mmmkay?


except for COP unions ... wisconsin proved this.

ok
also, the government and government employees are in collusion to take your money.
you know, cause government union employees are all so high paid.
if you get rid of the unions you could pay them a LOT less.
and if you privatize, then market competition would reduce costs even more.

some of this is true
but government unions exist to keep the new governor/mayor/elected tard, from firing everyone and then hiring his friends.
 
2012-06-10 03:07:33 PM

namatad: but government unions exist to keep the new governor/mayor/elected tard, from firing everyone and then hiring his friends.


FREE MARKET! FIX OLD, NO NEW!
 
2012-06-10 03:24:37 PM
I'm still waiting. He's got some kind of epic bullshiat to release upon Wisconsin, I know he does. And I won't have any sympathy this time, because now you people are clearly dumb enough to deserve it.

That being said, the entire DNC leadership also needs fired for that farkup.
 
2012-06-10 03:35:45 PM

GAT_00: I'm still waiting. He's got some kind of epic bullshiat to release upon Wisconsin, I know he does. And I won't have any sympathy this time, because now you people are clearly dumb enough to deserve it.

That being said, the entire DNC leadership also needs fired for that farkup.


what leadership?
the leadership which gave us dukakis, mondale, kerry, gore, gephart, gary hart, edwards?
I could go on, but there is no leadership.

clinton, obama, dean were all outsiders.
look at the arguments which were made during 2008. Clinton was the establishment, aka the leaderships choice.

WHERE is the leadership and preparing for 2016? (win or lose, obama is the dem candidate for 2012) Why isnt there a long process where we are learning about potential GOOD options for 2016 well in advance??

A great option would be for Biden to resign soon after they win in 2012, so that a new VP could be put in place as the heir apparent. That would be some kind of leadership.
Hell Biden could step down as VP to become Sec of State. Would be a logical transition process.

/the company I work for does leadership planning in advance. WHO could do my job? internal or external. Who could do my bosses job? Who can be groomed for the job? That way we at least have a CLUE what to do if someone dies, leaves, gets promoted ...
 
2012-06-10 03:41:50 PM

namatad: what leadership?
the leadership which gave us dukakis, mondale, kerry, gore, gephart, gary hart, edwards?
I could go on, but there is no leadership.


I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.
~ Will Rogers
 
2012-06-10 03:49:59 PM
FTA: "I think, really, government works better without them," Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels told "Fox News Sunday," when asked whether public-worker unions should even exist.

Whoa, did a Republican just admit government actually works under some conditions? Is this one of the signs of the apocalypse?
 
2012-06-10 03:51:20 PM

ImpendingCynic: FTA: "I think, really, government works better without them," Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels told "Fox News Sunday," when asked whether public-worker unions should even exist.

Whoa, did a Republican just admit government actually works under some conditions? Is this one of the signs of the apocalypse?


Follow-up story: Governor not allowed on Fox News ever again.
 
2012-06-10 03:51:34 PM

themindiswatching: Someone give me a summary of the article. I don't want to give Fox News a click.


Don't bother.

The headline has nothing to do with the article and in fact says the complete opposite.

Subtard doesn't understand that this is the market determining salaries...it is just in this case the buyer of the services is the government.
 
2012-06-10 03:54:09 PM

namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??

bwhahahahahaha
got to love the hypocrisy


Walker's people are many things, suicidal is not one of them. If he put the police and firefighter's unions in the Act 10 the ads would have written themselves. Most officers and firefighters know that they'll get the same treatment at some point, either in the 2013-4 budget or a subsequent Republican proposals. Some municipalities have already had to take the contribution levels out of their officers because shared revenue was gutted effectively making the city the bad guy in the whole deal. Other cities are looking into getting rid of their dispatchers and clerks and even proposals disbanding their departments all together.
 
2012-06-10 03:59:37 PM

GAT_00: I'm still waiting. He's got some kind of epic bullshiat to release upon Wisconsin, I know he does.


Yes, what a topsy-turvy world we live in, where Walker is planning to destroy the working class in WI. Such a thing hasn't been seen since, well, every single day Walker has been in office.
 
2012-06-10 04:25:07 PM
It's an odd disconnect. Not unlike folks who fervently believe that we should be increasing our domestic production and jobs, who keep voting for folks who make tax shelters and it far easier to ship labor overseas. Folks who tisk tisk the "Made in China" label and are bitter as f*ck about the trade deficit, yet keep voting for folks who make those trade deficits a matter of policy, and laud those who make large profits from the labor inequity at the same time.

It is akin to the premise for In the Beginning was the Command Line for the differences between Macs and Windows boxes, being actually the opposite from the perception.

Union busting isn't going to make things more efficient. It is just going to lower pay scales, and make it more difficult to put accountability to management. It is a great way of shedding responsibility, but without that boogey man, then folks are going to have only a short turn around, when they realize that wages are stagnant, that over-worked and underpaid civil servants and other workers don't stay in the industry, which necessitates increases for training budgets, and more turn around means less invested in those retirement funds, less insured folks, and then you get into a whole mess of other interwoven woes, and THEN the folks who championed busting up the unions, have to deal with a LOT of angry voters, again. Only now, there isn't a boogeyman to shake at them, save their own damn selves.

They can try for this. But it's like bat country, you can't stop there. You go for this, you'd best just gear up disinfranchise the whole lot of folks, and that includes the businesses that provide services to the middle class, because you are about to shoot yourself, and them right in the foot...
 
2012-06-10 04:29:16 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: The headline has nothing to do with the article and in fact says the complete opposite.


No, the headline is correct. Lack of a union means that the employer alone decides wages. (That is assuming that union negotiations are two sides deciding what wages should be.) In this case, the employer is the government. So therefore, he wants the govermnent to decide wages.

Now the humor derives from the fact that the comment in the headline usually refers to a Minimum Wage debate which Republicans are usually against. Minimum Wage is usually the government determining the wage which is what the conservatives rail against. Without the minimum wage, progressives are afraid that employers have too much of an upper hand in the negotiations and will depress the wages of the workforce as a whole. The conservatives frequently view this as "Free Market" forces. Of course, this specific definition of "Free Market" refers to a "market" that is "free" of government interference. Their typical defense against wage depression complaint is that it is the employee's responsibility to make their value increase to employers if they want to make their income increase. They should also do this if they wish to be paid better than some one else willing to do the work for less income.

Since this appears to be a reversal of roles, we can safely assume that it falls into the category of irony in the humor spectrum.

This concludes this weeks episode of "Gunny Walker Ruins Jokes." Tune in next week when examine just why a chicken would wear red suspenders. Good day.
 
2012-06-10 04:35:24 PM

Gunny Walker: No, the headline is correct. Lack of a union means that the employer alone decides wages. (That is assuming that union negotiations are two sides deciding what wages should be.)


If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.
 
2012-06-10 04:45:42 PM

Gunny Walker: tenpoundsofcheese: The headline has nothing to do with the article and in fact says the complete opposite.

No, the headline is correct. Lack of a union means that the employer alone decides wages. (That is assuming that union negotiations are two sides deciding what wages should be.) In this case, the employer is the government. So therefore, he wants the govermnent to decide wages.

Now the humor derives from the fact that the comment in the headline usually refers to a Minimum Wage debate which Republicans are usually against. Minimum Wage is usually the government determining the wage which is what the conservatives rail against. Without the minimum wage, progressives are afraid that employers have too much of an upper hand in the negotiations and will depress the wages of the workforce as a whole. The conservatives frequently view this as "Free Market" forces. Of course, this specific definition of "Free Market" refers to a "market" that is "free" of government interference. Their typical defense against wage depression complaint is that it is the employee's responsibility to make their value increase to employers if they want to make their income increase. They should also do this if they wish to be paid better than some one else willing to do the work for less income.

Since this appears to be a reversal of roles, we can safely assume that it falls into the category of irony in the humor spectrum.

This concludes this weeks episode of "Gunny Walker Ruins Jokes." Tune in next week when examine just why a chicken would wear red suspenders. Good day.

Obviously

the solution is to get government out of the schools entirely. And contract out all the bureaucracy as well. And make the police forces and fire departments all private firms. For that matter, we should probably get out of the whole military thing too and just hire private contractors there too. Intelligence too. Regulators will never work as efficiently as private firms, so the FDA and EPA can be run by industry organizations, right? Same with banks--we can trust them to run themselves, so we should probably just give them the treasury. National Parks? Put them to work for the people, and make them private reserves. Oil reserves? Nope, let's just give that away, and to the Job Creators. This is a plan that can NEVER fail...
 
2012-06-10 04:52:55 PM

namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK?


Of course they're okay, because police and firefighters, as well as soldiers, are American Heroes to whom we owe not just our freedoms, but our very existence. They are god-like creatures who are beyond reproach. We should be thankful that they deign to do so much as one good deed for us, for it is we who should be serving them.
 
2012-06-10 04:54:40 PM

liam76: If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.


Not true. There are other forces that determine wages in the public sector. There is still competition between government entities to hire competent people. If I'm interested in a job as a city mechanic I'm gonna apply to the city that pays mechanics a better wage and better benefits.
 
2012-06-10 04:57:09 PM

hubiestubert: So long as he likewise rules out Chambers of Commerce and industrial associations as well. That's the other side of the coin. As long as management organizes--and we are certainly seeing how those organizations are at work with Walker--then the workers need to have their own representatives. They pay into the union to give them the leverage that management and trade associations have as well. They represent different interests, but if you only allow management the right to organize and petition, then you unbalance things in a dangerous sense.



www.terrariaonline.com

:)
 
2012-06-10 05:03:12 PM

liam76: If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.


Because we have minimum wage laws. In areas of the world where corporations can get away with paying pennies, they often do.
 
2012-06-10 05:10:34 PM

technicolor-misfit: hubiestubert: So long as he likewise rules out Chambers of Commerce and industrial associations as well. That's the other side of the coin. As long as management organizes--and we are certainly seeing how those organizations are at work with Walker--then the workers need to have their own representatives. They pay into the union to give them the leverage that management and trade associations have as well. They represent different interests, but if you only allow management the right to organize and petition, then you unbalance things in a dangerous sense.


[www.terrariaonline.com image 452x339]

:)


No, the joke is our Republic.
 
2012-06-10 05:15:00 PM
Governments can be competitive. Corporations can be competitive. Labor will be paid what the hell we want to pay and STFU and GBTW.

/ Its a Free Market when we do it, when Labor does it, it's Socialism.
 
2012-06-10 05:18:02 PM
People dont have to work for government.

If public sector workers are as awesome as they think they are, it should be nothing to find a private sector job that obviously will pay twice as much for half the hours worked.

So long as they can get their Rascal through the door, it'll be a ride on the gravy train from there on out.
 
2012-06-10 05:19:00 PM

CruiserTwelve: liam76: If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.


Not
true. There are other forces that determine wages in the public sector. There is still competition between government entities to hire competent people. If I'm interested in a job as a city mechanic I'm gonna apply to the city that pays mechanics a better wage and better benefits.


The bolded part you just wrote backs up what I said, and directly contradicts what the person I was responding to said.


liam76: Gunny Walker: No, the headline is correct. Lack of a union means that the employer alone decides wages.



The Why Not Guy: liam76: If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.

Because we have minimum wage laws. In areas of the world where corporations can get away with paying pennies, they often do.


Try again. If it was only because of minimum wage then every non-union job would only be paying minimum wage.
 
2012-06-10 05:21:58 PM

CruiserTwelve: There are other forces that determine wages in the public sector.


Like Republicans banning groups that lobby to get paid a working wage.
 
2012-06-10 05:29:44 PM

namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??


You know how republicans are. They just get all weak in the knees over the thought of a man in uniform.

Women in uniform, usually not so much.
 
2012-06-10 05:32:19 PM

namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??

bwhahahahahaha
got to love the hypocrisy


It was never about the unions. It was about people they don't like.
 
2012-06-10 05:37:00 PM

Karac: You know how republicans are. They just get all weak in the knees over the thought of a man in uniform.


Fabulous!
 
2012-06-10 05:45:10 PM

hubiestubert: So long as he likewise rules out Chambers of Commerce and industrial associations as well. That's the other side of the coin. As long as management organizes--and we are certainly seeing how those organizations are at work with Walker--then the workers need to have their own representatives. They pay into the union to give them the leverage that management and trade associations have as well. They represent different interests, but if you only allow management the right to organize and petition, then you unbalance things in a dangerous sense.


I'm genuinely curious - what was the straw that broke your camel's back? I'd like to find it and use it as a weapon.
 
2012-06-10 05:56:43 PM

The Why Not Guy: liam76: If your assumption were correct then every employer that wasn't working with union employees would be paying them pennies. That doesn't happen.

Because we have minimum wage laws. In areas of the world where corporations can get away with paying pennies, they often do.


And in how many of those areas of the world do the people get to legitimately vote on their leaders?
 
2012-06-10 06:03:29 PM

liam76: The bolded part you just wrote backs up what I said, and directly contradicts what the person I was responding to said.


Ah yes. I should have read the post you were responding to so I could take your statement in context. Sorry.
 
2012-06-10 06:06:24 PM
Read photo.goodreads.com
The Iron Heel
- Jack London, 1908 (public domain) if you want insight into the Republicans' charted course.
 
2012-06-10 06:07:02 PM

Karac: namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??

You know how republicans are. They just get all weak in the knees over the thought of a man in uniform.

Women in uniform, usually not so much.


Over women in uniform they only get about 60-65% as weak in the knees.
 
2012-06-10 07:15:43 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: namatad: just some unions?
the police and fire unions are OK??

bwhahahahahaha
got to love the hypocrisy

Walker's people are many things, suicidal is not one of them. If he put the police and firefighter's unions in the Act 10 the ads would have written themselves. Most officers and firefighters know that they'll get the same treatment at some point, either in the 2013-4 budget or a subsequent Republican proposals. Some municipalities have already had to take the contribution levels out of their officers because shared revenue was gutted effectively making the city the bad guy in the whole deal. Other cities are looking into getting rid of their dispatchers and clerks and even proposals disbanding their departments all together.


Link
I spent about 5 mins here. and I wanted to kill myself.
step 1) kill all the politicians
step 2) ban all laws which can not be understood by the average high school graduate.


FFS that shiat is impossible to read
 
2012-06-10 07:23:26 PM
That's right it was a Republican " Nixon " who set Wage and Price Control in place !
Of course it didn't work !
Dem's don't have a lock on clueless ! Those dunces in Washington couldn't make a profit off Whores and Whiskey much less govern a complicated Nation !
 
2012-06-10 07:31:47 PM

namatad: Link
I spent about 5 mins here. and I wanted to kill myself.
step 1) kill all the politicians
step 2) ban all laws which can not be understood by the average high school graduate.


FFS that shiat is impossible to read


I would add the requirement that any bill must cover only a single subject. If it's a bill to repeal farm subsidies, then if you add in a line about funding some cotton museum in Mississippi and it gets passed, then a court can throw the whole damn thing out.
 
2012-06-10 07:43:19 PM

namatad: Link
I spent about 5 mins here. and I wanted to kill myself.
step 1) kill all the politicians
step 2) ban all laws which can not be understood by the average high school graduate.


FFS that shiat is impossible to read


They were before 2008 when the Frankenstein veto was still around. I bet you can also find a lawyer who thinks their profession has been under assault since Henry II mandated courts be conducted in English.
 
2012-06-10 07:47:01 PM

Karac: namatad: Link
I spent about 5 mins here. and I wanted to kill myself.
step 1) kill all the politicians
step 2) ban all laws which can not be understood by the average high school graduate.


FFS that shiat is impossible to read

I would add the requirement that any bill must cover only a single subject. If it's a bill to repeal farm subsidies, then if you add in a line about funding some cotton museum in Mississippi and it gets passed, then a court can throw the whole damn thing out.


which just leads to the tards arguing that this is a bill to repair the budget ....
shudder
 
2012-06-10 07:47:12 PM
maybe governor mitch should go. go away.
 
2012-06-10 07:48:14 PM
you know what would also work?
make the lawmaker whose name is first on the bill read the WHOLE bill in session, with a quorum.
If they make changes or amendments to the bill, they have to start again.

bwhahahahahahahahaahahaha
 
2012-06-10 07:58:35 PM
So we can allow corporate entities of people but labor entities of people are evil.

Corporations can negotiate prices with government agency (usually they decide the price they want to be paid at) however labor has no say in what that rate can be. It's only "take it or leave it" where a business gets to set the price they want to work for.

Yeah that's fair!
 
2012-06-10 08:03:55 PM
So how many right wingers who think this is a good idea also thinks that government should set the prices of their corporate contracts? (which they don't do now)

Also who feels that incorporation, similar to labor forming a union, is also an unfair advantage and believes only non-corporate forms of businesses should be allowed to do government contracts?

Or is the power to organize and negotiate only evil when it's labor but as people who bring capital it's fine? -- Oh wait that is what you guys are actually saying.
 
2012-06-10 08:08:03 PM
Corporations: As a group of capitalists we will associate in a legal entity to work as a block and set the price we should get paid for government contracts!!! - Republicans: "This is fantastic and how the free market should work!!"

Unions: As a group of labor we will associate in a legally entity to work as a block and set the price we should get paid for government contracts!!!- Republicans: "This is evil and lets make lots of laws against something that would naturally exist in a market."
 
2012-06-10 08:16:09 PM

Corvus: So how many right wingers who think this is a good idea also thinks that government should set the prices of their corporate contracts? (which they don't do now)

Also who feels that incorporation, similar to labor forming a union, is also an unfair advantage and believes only non-corporate forms of businesses should be allowed to do government contracts?

Or is the power to organize and negotiate only evil when it's labor but as people who bring capital it's fine? -- Oh wait that is what you guys are actually saying.


There is nothing stopping people from organizing and negotiating for salaries and benefits.
 
2012-06-10 08:43:41 PM

CujoQuarrel: There is nothing stopping people from organizing and negotiating for salaries and benefits.


Except, of course, for grossly unequal bargaining position - you know, the sort of thing labor has traditionally addressed by organizing.
 
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