Ed Finnerty: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Absolutely!
(I'll grab any lifeline at all at this point.)

I hear you. I could've sworn it was about a firefighting job earlier.

Then again, I'm pretty baked this morning.

Just to clarify I thought there was a F not a P. Sometimes reading a article is way to much trouble. I'm mean after am I'm neither jewish nor reside in the New York area. It could be described as a wild ass stab.

/Yeah, that's it wild ass stab.

rpl: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So... You apply for a job where its reasonable to expect you may have to use your weapon, thus violating a farking commandment, but cutting your facial hair is a deal breaker. Religious people are farking retarded, Jews especially.

Using a weapon violates no commandment seeing as how not all killing is murder (which is what the commandment actually says). Shaving with a razor on the other hand, is explicitly forbidden.
It ain't the jews' fault you christos still use a half-arsed translation of our crap for a life philosophy.

In short: "Pfeh!"

Yeah, I admit I'm not well-verse on the ancient ramblings of primitive lunatics.

i upped my meds-up yours: Yes, one must help others and do good (mitzvot). But Job 1 is follow the rules, consult the rules, discuss the rules, follow the rules more closely, discuss the rules in and out of any possible context, derive rules that follow from the rules, and follow the rules that follow from the rules.

Also, figuring out rules that circumvent the rules in ways that maybe God won't notice, like Sabbath elevators.

angrycrank: But legally, that's generally not the standard- ExcaliburPrime111's is. Although the approach varies among jurisdictions, the analysis typically looks like:

1) Does the requirement have a disparate impact on members of a group - a no facial hair requirement does have a disparate impact in that it excludes men who do not shave for religious reasons

2) is it a bona fide job requirement? That has to be actually related to the performance of duties. For example, requirements that police officers be a certain height in order to project authority have been struck down, whereas requirements that pilots be a certain height because that's how the controls are set up have been upheld. With respect to the beard, if it's really about safety, it's a bona fide requirement - probably not so much if it's about "looking presentable" (an Orthodox Jew is not "unpresentable" by the standards of that community by virtue of having a beard.)

3) If the restriction is a bona fide job requirement, can the person be reasonably accommodated? Moving someone to another position is usually reasonable; entirely redesigning the cockpit of a plane likely wouldn't be.

As for whether he'd have to shave if other Orthodox Jews do, that's unlikely. Courts and tribunals don't like to get into discussions of whether a practice is actually required by a person's religion - they'd have one rabbi saying it's ok to shave and another saying no, and who is the court to determine which one more accurately describes the tenets of the faith? Instead, they look at whether a person sincerely believes the requirement is an essential part of their faith.

None of this may be the law in NY and I'm too lazy to look it up, but he may have a case. Even if the short beard is a bona fide job requirement for safety reasons, there are probably positions available where it's not an issue.

Also, the NYPD may be missing an opportunity. This guy could probably be more effective in Orthodox neighborhoods than an officer who sh ...

Beard requirements are a legitimate issue in law enforcement since nice long facial hair is something very good to grab onto if you are trying to harm someone.

The NYPD is making a reasonable accommodation by allowing a short beard, since it bridges the gap between safety and faith, allowing his full on unshaven beard is not a reasonable accommodation since it creates a safety hazard for the officer and his partners.

As far as his effectiveness, after seeing Kyras Joel and other "orthodox" communities, he would probably spend more time covering up than enforcing!