Tell that to certain kinds of zombie.

jaylectricity: Tell that to a snail.

Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

notmtwain: rudemix: Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

Well, since you now know that there is no such thing as an obscene amount of salt in restaurant or packaged foods (that would be like complaining about an obscene amount of beef in a hamburger or wheat flour in a piece of bread), you can rid yourself of such obscene worries and stick to your own personal taste as a guideline.

// If you don't like the taste, that's fine, but it doesn't make it obscene.

Tell that to someone with Meniere's disease. Oh wait, they probably can't hear you.

I've got some news that might actually shock a lot of you: Most medical research is crap. Good experimentation involves identifying all variables, isolating all variables, and manipulating them one at a time, which is impossible in most circumstances involving experimentation on humans.

Over the last 40 years studies looking for a link between salt intake and hypertension have largely involved looking at varying groups of human volunteers. Without exception these studies have failed to account for:

1. Natural genetic variation.
2. Dietary factors other than salt, such as sugar and fat intake.
3. Environmental factors other than diet, such as exercise.
4. Volunteer bias: Do you know how you get involved in a medical study? In most cases you join a study AFTER you have reported specific problems. This means that most of the studies that led to our fear of salt involved people who already had hypertension, heart problems, or other related medical issues.

Given the ethical and logistical considerations, it would be difficult to overcome most of these problems (for example: over a 5 year study you can't realistically expect all test subjects to maintain exactly the same diet), however it does limit the usefulness of those studies. Bottom line is that the medical community has grossly overstated the "facts" regarding salt and has called for limits on salt intake that are unrealistic even with the best diet.

having watched all three versions, i have to say i prefer the director's cut.

notmtwain: rudemix: Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

Well, since you now know that there is no such thing as an obscene amount of salt in restaurant or packaged foods (that would be like complaining about an obscene amount of beef in a hamburger or wheat flour in a piece of bread), you can rid yourself of such obscene worries and stick to your own personal taste as a guideline.

// If you don't like the taste, that's fine, but it doesn't make it obscene.

I was implying my own guideline in my comment. And if obscene is too strong a word maybe unnecessary is better. There is an unnecessary amount of salt in most restaurant or prepackaged foods compared to that made at home. Eating it occasionally is something I enjoy. People that eat out, and snack food often, that don't drink good quantities of water are getting more salt than they need. According to TFA that's okay. Doesn't change the fact restaurant and snack food have unnecessary amounts of salt.

Boluses of salt are eliminated from the body really quickly in the urine (within a couple of hours). I would imagine that high dietary salt intake is only a problem if you're taking in enough salt that your body can't get rid of the surplus.

High salt consumption causes hypertension like video games make people fat. They're both linked to lifestyle choices, not necessarily the reason someone is hypertensive/fat.

A lot of current dietary theory is based on very little - or very poor - actual science.

I remember when they were pushing the "meat and fats are horribly bad for you - eat nice healthy carbohydrates instead." Of course, that "wisdom" led to a huge increase in carbohydrate consumption, since the body isn't as satisfied with the same amount of calories in bread. Final result: same amount of salt consumed, fatter people.

Lowered salt probably has much the same effect - if the body is craving salt, but the food you're eating has lower salt content - you eat more of whatever it is.

I wonder if the "fat problem" in the US would go away if we ignored all of the dietary advice we've gotten from the government for the last forty or fifty years...

notmtwain: rudemix: Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

Well, since you now know that there is no such thing as an obscene amount of salt in restaurant or packaged foods (that would be like complaining about an obscene amount of beef in a hamburger or wheat flour in a piece of bread), you can rid yourself of such obscene worries and stick to your own personal taste as a guideline.

// If you don't like the taste, that's fine, but it doesn't make it obscene.

This is at least kinda obscene.

I'll need more evidence than an editorial written by a corporate shill before I come to any conclusions. Not saying he's wrong, but you'd be a fool to take his word as gospel.

t3knomanser: In the end, Pollan's advice remains the best: eat food, not too much, mostly plants. You don't need to regulate your salt or fat intake. At most, you want to avoid foods that have been highly processed. Simply cooking your meals from raw ingredients is the quickest way to improve an unhealthy diet.

And that's the truth.

cretinbob: I'm eating a salt bagel with smoked salmon right now, so I got a kick out of TFA

:(

/jealous
//assuming they know how to make good bagels by you
///why, yes, I am an asshole NYer

Approves

My mom died of a heart attack spurred by sodium deficiency, so I'm getting a kick out of some of these replies...

notmtwain: Gough: notmtwain: rudemix: Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

Well, since you now know that there is no such thing as an obscene amount of salt in restaurant or packaged foods (that would be like complaining about an obscene amount of beef in a hamburger or wheat flour in a piece of bread), you can rid yourself of such obscene worries and stick to your own personal taste as a guideline.

// If you don't like the taste, that's fine, but it doesn't make it obscene.

Tell that to someone with Meniere's disease. Oh wait, they probably can't hear you.

OK, I went for it and looked it up. Says that the disease is ideopathic, meaning they don't know what causes it. So you can't blame it on salt. Oh, and a low salt diet is one possible treatment for reducing the amount of fluid between your ears but "although the relationship between salt and the inner ear is not fully understood."

"Additionally, patients may be advised to avoid alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco, all of which can aggravate symptoms of Ménière's. Many patients will have allergy testing done to see if they are candidates for allergy desensitization, as allergies have been shown to aggravate Ménière's symptoms", meaning again, you can't point the finger at salt as a cause or suggest it as the main line of treatment.

And surgery and anti-herpes drugs are also suggested treatment options.

// So I reject your attempted troll and would still say using your own taste as a guideline works out well.

Not really a troll, just a reaction to your comment about just "using your own taste". We have a number of friends with Meniere's and they are basically unable to dine at restaurants because of the high (obscene??) amount of salt used. That the relationship between salt and Meniere's isn't understood is beside the point.

Can you believe people in the 20th century actually thought salt was bad for you?

The second was a strain of "salt-sensitive" rats that reliably developed hypertension on a high-salt diet. The catch was that "high salt" to these rats was 60 times more than what the average American consumes

Reminds me of the first time I learned the LD50 of Salt. It's 3000 mg/kg. Basically, in order to kill rats with salt you have to ram a funnel down their throats and pour in salt. On another fun note, according to the wiki page for LD50's, water has an LD50 of 90,000. So one fun day in the lab they were drowning rats, scientifically.

/If your kidneys are okay you just piss out the extra salt
//Drink plenty of water

06wildcat: High salt consumption causes hypertension like video games make people fat. They're both linked to lifestyle choices, not necessarily the reason someone is hypertensive/fat.

If salt alone could cause the things it's accused of, the Japanese would all have astronomical BP and be dropping like flies from strokes and infarctions.
They aren't.

Yotto: notmtwain: rudemix: Salt itself was not a worry for me. The obscene amounts found in most restaurant and packaged foods was.

Well, since you now know that there is no such thing as an obscene amount of salt in restaurant or packaged foods (that would be like complaining about an obscene amount of beef in a hamburger or wheat flour in a piece of bread), you can rid yourself of such obscene worries and stick to your own personal taste as a guideline.

// If you don't like the taste, that's fine, but it doesn't make it obscene.

This is at least kinda obscene.

[thechive.files.wordpress.com image 500x375]

swahnhennessy: I'll need more evidence than an editorial written by a corporate shill before I come to any conclusions. Not saying he's wrong, but you'd be a fool to take his word as gospel.

Perhaps, but it correlates to my experiences as a recreational athlete and I feel it certainly deserves further scientific investigation.

It's actually kind of weird - run thirteen to fifteen miles in the summer. You can literally scrape the salt off your face when you're done. Then, in about an hour, you'll experience a very intense craving for French Fries. And no matter how much salt and ketchup you use they'll still taste slightly bland.

/i suspect our bodies generally know what they're doing

Software2: Can you believe people in the 20th century actually thought salt was bad for you?

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or . . . hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy . . . precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.

Software2: [mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com image 640x547]

Can you believe people in the 20th century actually thought salt was bad for you?

Woot!

/just rewatched that ep
//(belated) annual rewatch of the series

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: It's actually kind of weird - run thirteen to fifteen miles in the summer. You can literally scrape the salt off your face when you're done. Then, in about an hour, you'll experience a very intense craving for French Fries. And no matter how much salt and ketchup you use they'll still taste slightly bland.

Forty miles on the bike in heat and low humidity yesterday, so I'm getting a kick out of this comment. Polished off a pile of leftovers from the previous night's Mexican dinner (refrieds, black beans, rice), but still not sure it was enough salt.

I've thought about scraping the salt deposits from my face, shirt, etc. into a little pile after a ride, and using that to gauge how much I'm entitled to salt my food at dinner. (No, not recycling the salt. Ick.)

You will die if you eliminate salt 100%. You will die if you eat too much salt.

Why has this been so hard to understand? For some reason, the conversation has long been black and white, and not just about salt. Either you kill it completely, or you slap that shiat on there like it's the cure. Why is the conversation so slanted all the time?

vygramul: cirby: A lot of current dietary theory is based on very little - or very poor - actual science.

I remember when they were pushing the "meat and fats are horribly bad for you - eat nice healthy carbohydrates instead." Of course, that "wisdom" led to a huge increase in carbohydrate consumption, since the body isn't as satisfied with the same amount of calories in bread. Final result: same amount of salt consumed, fatter people.

Lowered salt probably has much the same effect - if the body is craving salt, but the food you're eating has lower salt content - you eat more of whatever it is.

I wonder if the "fat problem" in the US would go away if we ignored all of the dietary advice we've gotten from the government for the last forty or fifty years...

You think people who are fat became so from following government advice?

Really?

The government started giving lots and lots of dietary advice of the "don't eat salt" and "eat carbs instead of protein and fat" sort right before the modern increase in weight.

Most of the things they told us we should do ended up being the things that we now know (from non-government sources) can cause weight gain and other health issues.