If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AL.com)   We laid off 40 percent of our IT staff and refused to upgrade outdated equipment...let's watch what happens   (blog.al.com) divider line 106
    More: Fail, Jefferson County, information technology, Emergency Management Agency, computer crashes, county manager, equipment  
•       •       •

38665 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2012 at 11:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-06-09 06:56:35 PM  
8 votes:
Since Tuesday, the hardware problem has slowed or stopped transactions in the finance, treasurer and purchasing departments, preventing vendor payments and deposits and delaying preparation of the fiscal 2011 audit, according to county officials.

They don't care if their payments are late and that it effects small businesses. You, however, better not be late with your payments to government.
2012-06-09 08:21:25 PM  
6 votes:
SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.
2012-06-09 11:57:20 PM  
5 votes:
What I never got was how my last employer treated the IT guys. The first department to get anything new, from chairs to computers, was H.R. The last two departments to get anything new was Accounting and IT.

As bad as Accounting had it, IT had it worse. Their A+ techs were paid less than $10/hr on average and were the guys tasked with repairing all the computers in the company, not to mention basic software upgrades. The guys that were in jobs that required bachelors degrees in the IT department were paid less than $15/hour salaried, worked every other weekend on top of their 45 work week (that company believed that if you were salaried you had to put in at least 45 hours a week, but only paid for 40), not to mention late nights if something went wrong with the network. Our IT department had to justify every expense, even if it was a screw driver for the A+ guys to my boss (I worked accounting, expense reporting), attach receipts and detailed justification for why that screw driver was needed. H.R. could send a guy to New York City for one night, spend $1,000 on a hotel for that one night, a $125 dinner and explain that receipts were not needed because it was an official H.R. function, and H.R. function was all the justificiation needed. In H.R., a simple file clerk made at least $13/hour. Now, compare that with the above mentioned A+ tech and remember that it doesn't take any education at all to be a file clerk.

When I gave my exit interview, I pointed out that I did the expense reports for both H.R. and IT. I said that the only thing I'm sad that I will miss is when someone in IT gets pissed off enough at their treatment as the red headed step child and manages to use a simple virus to completely destroy this company, or repairs your work laptops and uses what's on there to get you all fired.

I've been looking at job ads. My wife been trying to get me into a tech support job. I've been showing her the job ads and the pay for tech support jobs and telling her that the pay is almost poverty and job requires dealing with complete and total morons who are too stupid to be using a computer. Companies need the computer and network to function in order to make them money, but they don't want to pay people the money that technicans are actually worth to keep the system up and running.
2012-06-09 10:54:32 PM  
4 votes:

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


We accuse Democrats of spend spend spending, but then Republicans like Tony Petelos cut funding, force IT to lay off their staff, and now Jefferson County is effectively crippled. It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well. The approach that any and all spending is evil sounds nice ideologically -- and may even score a few political points -- but it's just not a realistic solution for our country.
2012-06-09 09:20:00 PM  
4 votes:
You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.
2012-06-09 07:56:40 PM  
4 votes:
Its not just county governments that are cutting on infrastructure and people. The company I work for is just about putting out fires now, not preventing them. They save in the short run, pay out the nose when shiat hits the fan. People say the same for places they work.

/not a fireman or otolaryngologist
2012-06-09 11:25:08 PM  
3 votes:
Bet they got a full complement of fully automatic assault rifles, body armor, and military-grade weaponry, though.
2012-06-09 08:59:26 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure


Where's the direct profit in it?

That's where free market ideology falls apart.
2012-06-09 08:55:59 PM  
3 votes:

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure. you can only outsource so much before things fall apart. and lemme tell ya - SAP is a right bastard if you don't maintain it.
2012-06-09 08:53:32 PM  
3 votes:
Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.
2012-06-09 07:43:51 PM  
3 votes:
Workers were able to restore the server but are looking for a way to load SAP programs and data, Petelos said. "If successful, SAP should be available within 24 hours," he said. "If unsuccessful, a complete rebuild of the system will be required and could take up to five days."

Translation: Our backups are probably crap and we'll have to reinstall and reconfigure everything from scratch (assuming there's anyone left who knows how to do it).
2012-06-09 07:43:32 PM  
3 votes:
This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?
2012-06-09 06:52:21 PM  
3 votes:
You laid off Ford Prefect?
That was a bad idea.
2012-06-10 08:52:09 AM  
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorganhas been run by criminally incompetent people for the last 20 years?


FTFY. And yes, they made very bad decisions related to JPMorgan, but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.
2012-06-10 08:24:46 AM  
2 votes:
For a few seconds, I really thought this article was going to be about the Fortune 25 company where I work. Headline says it all. 'Lean and mean' will become 'skinny and pissed' if left unchecked.
2012-06-10 08:04:06 AM  
2 votes:

Ika7734: IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


I wish my IT department understood this. I've said for years that they think the rest of us exist to provide them with IT jobs. That's our purpose: require desktops, servers, network, etc so they have jobs.

To be fair, they're probably as understaffed as the rest of us. My department is one resignation away from a meltdown. It isn't a bad company, but it isn't amazing, either. I think more and more people are biding their time until they can find something better.
2012-06-10 07:36:16 AM  
2 votes:

basemetal: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

Yes, yes it is.


No, no it isn't. It's symptomatic of management that doesn't listen, pays themselves bonuses and lets the hardware/software shrivel up and die. Just completed a full refresh for a client that didn't listen to their previous admins....The admins quit. Ignored every shred of data about best and critical practices and so their email servers wouldn't stay up more than a day or two and when one went down their other clusters soon followed. 18 hour days of firefighting....every day. Oncall was pure hell.
2012-06-10 07:08:46 AM  
2 votes:
Babwa Wawa
I reckon you could go with Oracle and see how they do. They'll rape you, stick you with the bar tab, and then complain you didn't pay for the hotel room.

The problem with business process software isn't the software. It's that it's all about business process. If you have a hard time fixing processes in a manual world, software isn't going to solve it - in fact it'll more likely magnify the problem.


Oh, so very true. CSB, worked as a senior consultant in state (shall remain unnamed) government. Took 2 weeks to realize everyone knew they were incompetent and didn't care - it was the defacto standard of the department. Also learned that no one (I mean NO ONE) wanted to discuss business processes, business logic, implementation, or any of the strategy for the projects I was working on. Why? They didn't have the knowledge necessary to bring anything to the table. Their view was 'Write the code - make it work - don't bother me with thinking'. Got a great laugh watching them scratch a 25 million dollar project, because they didn't understand the business processes involved, plus although the canned SW in question was working successfully in four other states, they want mucho 'custom development' to support business processes they never defined. Since then, 90% of management has retired, at 90% of their bloated, undeserved salaries.
2012-06-10 06:39:00 AM  
2 votes:
The server runs SAP

Well, well....

I'm convinced that SAP get blowjobs for CEOs. I've not met a single person that endorses it, or a user that finds it better than the old in-house legacy system.

It's also my "should I avoid investing in this company" because I know 3 companies that got it in and within a few years, their share price was much lower. I'm not necessarily saying that SAP caused it so much that if you've got management that buy SAP, you've got the wrong sort of management.
2012-06-10 05:24:44 AM  
2 votes:
If you think only government is inefficient and does stupid stuff like this, you have never worked for a large company.
2012-06-10 04:54:55 AM  
2 votes:

mxwjs: i simply said just giving people more money doesn't fix stuff. an obvious statement.


It does when there's more stuff to fix. Consider that there will be more and more computers in any one setting, and more and more people using them. The demands on the systems those machines are linked to will increase. Those machine will also cost more to purchase, maintain and upgrade, as well as the systems they are plugged into.

Why is it that people seem to think that even though they can see prices rising on everything they purchase, from cantaloupes to coffee makers, that they actually expect expenditures made by governments on behalf of their people to remain static? Do you not think what it costs them increases as well? And it's not just prices, it can also be an increase in what they have to buy to meet the needs of their community. More people = more stuff that needs to be done = more money.

Right now where I live the local county board is hearing a bunch of anti-tax morans whine and b*tch about "moar taxxes" with no clue as to how much more it costs the county to provide the services they want so much. Increased fuel costs for county vehicles (which go through thousands of gallons every month), increased food costs for school districts (which go through thousands of pounds of food a week), increased energy costs for heating and cooling any building they own, none of those things seem to matter to these idiots.

Somehow, the price of everything in the private sector can go up all to hell (free market at work and all that sh*t), but what governments spend should never do the same, as if they are somehow immune to those same forces. Too much cost-cutting in the name of "efficiency" and you get people running Windows 2000 server on 486DX machines with 14" 256 color CRT monitors.
2012-06-10 04:42:18 AM  
2 votes:

Ika7734: Business side: What do we pay IT for? They're a waste of money
IT: Ok, bye
Business side: where'd my internet go? I can't find my internet anymore? Why isn't this web project done?

Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


"If you never hear from your IT department, they are probably doing a very good job".
2012-06-10 01:35:57 AM  
2 votes:

xanadian: optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.

WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.

O.o

Needless to say, everyone has either XP or Win 7 now.

I love being able to drive the technological bus where I work...


When I interned at LA County's Probation Dept. back in 2005, they were still using an updated version of whatever it was that replaced Dbase III. It was slooooooow and couldn't keep track of all kinds of things they needed to track--but they were using it because (at the time) updating all the records to Windows would cost too much.

I did another temp job where I handled a new installation of MSWord (I didn't install it, but I was the first one to really use it) and they offered me a job on the second day because I could make it do all kinds of things besides just type documents. I declined because I didn't want to be the go-to tech gal for an insurance company for the pay they offered, and I could already see where that was going: "Susan, the computer isn't working again! Can you fix it?" "Not for $12.00 an hour I can't."
2012-06-10 01:30:52 AM  
2 votes:
Looks like Mr. Pony's stack of pink flimsies just made the news.

/Obama, Romney, that guy who thinks Ayn Rand is pron...why can't we just elect Vetinari?
2012-06-10 01:15:28 AM  
2 votes:

optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.


Every time I've had to call the help desk where I work because something went glitchy, I make sure to thank the IT guy. The most recent time: got a 2nd monitor to help with my work, even though my desk is really, really small - and after the install, it kept blacking out and flickering non-stop. He stopped by, swapped the vid card, and now it's good as gold. Thank you IT guy.

The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp. We're just lowly production staff though, we KNOW we need this shiat to work right.
2012-06-10 12:36:06 AM  
2 votes:

Lt_Ryan:
Do you think there is a finance server in the back of every Wal-Mart and other store you walk into? There maybe something in the back so handle local activity but most of the major work is done in consolidated sites. Less hardware, less software, and less staffing, therefore you can run better hardware and hopefully better staffing.


well...the issue with government sites is that there are frequently issues with local and state politics that get in the way of a consolidated IT infrastructure. that plus sheer ignorance of IT issues from most high level government people can easily translate into multiple redundant and inefficient networks as well as some rather confused sources of data. the shiny presentation from the nice company that just donated a couple hundred grand to some senator's campaign is probably gonna just get tossed into the mix without much concern for the long term consequences for the folks who have to maintain and run it.

the problem with private networks is that again - you've got a corporate culture that's focused on THIS quarter's earning statements. the IT folks aren't 'adding value' to the corporate bottom line. they're a 'cost center', not a profit center. And in the MBA/accountant universe - you don't improve cost centers, you cut them down to the bone and run bare minimum until you find a way to get rid of them completely. Hence the trend to outsource as much of your core IT functions as humanly possible, regardless of the consequences of said actions. we can sit here and discuss the pros and cons of that thinking all night long, but at the end of the day until the corporate culture of 'faster/cheaper/outsource more' goes away we're going to see more and more IT jobs bleed out overseas.
2012-06-09 11:53:49 PM  
2 votes:

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.

Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.


I reckon you could go with Oracle and see how they do. They'll rape you, stick you with the bar tab, and then complain you didn't pay for the hotel room.

The problem with business process software isn't the software. It's that it's all about business process. If you have a hard time fixing processes in a manual world, software isn't going to solve it - in fact it'll more likely magnify the problem.
2012-06-09 11:39:39 PM  
2 votes:

cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county. Along with the successful business goes tax revenue. JC is a lost cause. No one can live there nor would they want to. Has nothing to do with Republicans. Same thing happened in Selma and trust me, you don't even want to take that exit off I-65.
2012-06-09 10:30:40 PM  
2 votes:

cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency. I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.


Then maybe you should direct your ire to those decision-makers instead of saying that all government is inefficient (or idiotic or fails horribly). When you talk about "government" like that, you're talking about everyone who makes a living working in the public sector. And that ain't right, man.
2012-06-09 10:20:39 PM  
2 votes:

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


But anything is better than nothing, right? Every little bit helps, especially if it's something repetitive and common.

You get the point I'm making here, right? I'm just finishing a bottle of Moscato that I started like two hours ago so I should probably say it right out.

You worked for the government. I'm sure you found things that could have been improved, otherwise your assertion that the government is inefficient at everything is bullshiat right from the get-go. What I get from you is that you knew it sucked, never bothered to try to fix or improve everything, and now biatch about how bad everything was.

If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.
2012-06-09 10:15:17 PM  
2 votes:
Yep. Get new servers and hire the old IT staff as contractors at an increased rate and prove again how stupid you are. Most of the companies and organizations I have worked in have learned the hard way that "If IT ain't happy, nobody ain't happy."
2012-06-09 09:49:31 PM  
2 votes:
This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.
2012-06-09 09:19:35 PM  
2 votes:

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


Same can be said for every government policy in existence
2012-06-09 08:36:48 PM  
2 votes:
for a second there, I thought this was a story about my now former employer....

Personally, I wish 'em the best of luck but they're not reinvesting in their infrastructure and laying off people with years of experience, and those of us who DIDN'T get laid off are retiring fast as they can.
2012-06-09 08:21:02 PM  
2 votes:
i123.photobucket.com
2012-06-09 06:56:08 PM  
2 votes:
That's symptomatic of severe financial distress
2012-06-10 01:17:23 PM  
1 votes:

mxwjs: the funny this is most of those things are private where i live ( not that that makes it better or is even relevant ) my comment wasn't saying that the gov't fails at doing everything. they simply fail to do things even reasonably efficiently. blindly giving them more money doesn't help. i do vote. i don't tell people how to do their jobs ( why would that be something i would have to do? ) i don't biatch into the ether (because it doesn't exist ). i simply said just giving people more money doesn't fix stuff. an obvious statement.


Wrong. You said governments "never keep up their end of the deal." And I called bullshiat. Because it is. Don't sit there and tell me you said one thing when you clearly said much more than that.

I promise you that NO ONE hands out money blindly. I really don't know where you get that from. Departments in your local government fight constantly for depleted funds. Budget proposals are fought over & cut all the time. I have no idea where you get the idea that we're just POURING taxpayer dollars into dead end projects and inefficient systems. I really don't & it makes me wonder if you've ever worked in the public sector at all. No one ever said that pouring more money into something solves every problem. But if you look at this article, pouring money into a new server would've mitigated this county's problem.

And governments do things efficiently all the time, you just don't notice because they're running efficiently. I feel sorry for you if your police & fire are privatized. That sounds like a huge recipe for disaster. Literally.
2012-06-10 11:13:46 AM  
1 votes:

CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.


You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.
2012-06-10 10:15:31 AM  
1 votes:
Heh, how's that focus on the "bottom line" working out for ya'?
2012-06-10 09:43:57 AM  
1 votes:
I think IT workers should unionize.
2012-06-10 09:27:14 AM  
1 votes:
I rather like my old IT job at the University of Arizona: the research group I worked for didn't have huge piles of money, but they had enough funding to do things right most of the time.

For example, the computers in the lab controlled various DNA sequencers and other research equipment. They offloaded the data to a file storage server. The administration realized that this data was critical, so the storage system was a great multi-RAID-6-with-hot-spares system. They had a few spare disks sitting on the shelf so they could swap out failed disks and send them off for warranty replacement without running the array in a degraded state (we considered an intact array running without a hot spare as "degraded"). That storage array was backed up to tape every night.

All the computers driving the instruments had full-system images taken monthly, differential images taken every week, and incremental images taken every night. Images were automatically merged into each other over time on a "rolling window" basis so we had a six-month rolling window of backups. The entire backup chain for each system was validated nightly to ensure integrity. While they didn't store research data, it would have taken days to reinstall these systems from scratch, install the software, import all the calibrations, etc. When one of the systems failed, we replaced it with a spare, wrote the image to it, replaced the hardware interface card for the instrument, and had it back up and running within two hours. The lab director was there the whole time (he was really cool and was a bit antsy about the system being down) and he had this look of amazement, as if he were watching us do magic. Evidently there was room in the budget for beer and pizza after that one.

The IT director in this group had a pretty good policy: if you have idle time (which means systems are working well), try to use that time to figure out new ways of improving how things worked. Whether that's doing more development on the in-house web-based lab management system, researching better backup systems, virtualizing servers (where appropriate), etc. If we could provide suitable justification, funding could be made available for certain projects (but not everything, of course). Constant maintenance and improvement kept things running smoothly for us, made the scientists more productive, and kept the whole research group happy.

Of course, I took off my jack-of-all-trades IT hat, went to grad school (different school), and am on the other side of the IT/science fence. It's weird being on this side.
2012-06-10 09:18:21 AM  
1 votes:
They say nobody in IT is indispensable, but somebody there was.
2012-06-10 09:10:35 AM  
1 votes:
Part of the reason it is going to take so long to get back up and running is that SAP support is awful.

My last job we would open a ticket with SAP and get a reply in the middle of the night from India. Usually with a question that we would answer the next day and wait 12 hours for the reply.

They get what they paid for. Not much
2012-06-10 08:56:14 AM  
1 votes:
Many years ago I worked for a large university in Wisconsin. Our backup system was failing, and we kept asking the boss for money to replace it. For some reason he kept finding better things to do with the money, told us to make do.

Then one day the Police departments database crashed and was wiped. And of course, the backups were hosed. The boss tried to blame us for the mistake, but we had the numerous emails and requests for new equipment so it fell on his head. He was a very unpleasant person to deal with after that.

/left after a year
//former boss was 'promoted' out of the way
2012-06-10 08:51:02 AM  
1 votes:

wademh: An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.


As someone working in the IT-service industry I am always amazed at the complete lack of perspective and unbelievable short-sightedness of some managers and companies.

I don't understand how somebody can complain and whine that they absolutely need this or that system working immediately because every hour it is costing them a small fortune, when they already knew how important the system was when they declined to pay for redundancies and more comprehensive SLAs.

You see this blindness at every level of IT. The customer who tries to buy a warranty upgrade for their laptop after it gets broken, The irate idiot who tries to explain on the phone that is using something for his business and therefore needs it back up working immediately, but for some reason only ever bought a license for private use. The small inhouse it outfit who decided to forego testing their backups and disaster recovery mechanisms because they were afraid they might not work. The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power supplies for their servers. I have seen five and six figure projects be endangered by attempts to save money on a component or license worth less than a hundred.

I can forgive the smaller scale idiots. They are just idiots but on the other end of the spectrum there are people being paid lots of moeny to make such decisions and still get things wrong. There are important decisions being made by people who know that a contract penalty incurred because of a broken system could ruin the entire company, who nonetheless are content to take the risks and forego any sort of appropriate redundancy in their setup.

Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with that sort of people. I get that not everyone can understand the technical details, but once they get the results explained to them they still decide to go with the 'cheaper' option. It is almost as if they are so used to being able to negotiate and bully people into doing what they want that they think the same tactic works on broken machinery. You might be able to get one worker to do the job of two others, that you fired for cost cutting reasons, in addition to his own, you won't be able to talk a server into handling more work than it honestly can. There is nothing a technician can do to make it run faster and the time wasted by hundreds of people who depend on the ageing system is worth much more than the cost of an upgrade or replacement.

There should be course in critical thinking and basic logic included in business studies.
2012-06-10 08:41:48 AM  
1 votes:
Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.
2012-06-10 08:32:02 AM  
1 votes:

CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.


They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.
2012-06-10 08:05:41 AM  
1 votes:

slayer199: We're running about 60 servers per admin. Though that's not really accurate. My responsibility is virtualization (including VDI) and storage (EMC Clarion and Symmetrix). While I can and do the WinDoze and linux stuff, it's not my primary responsibility. We have 2 guys that do AD/Exchange/OCS/Windows. 1 SQL Server DBA, 1 Backup/Windows, and one Storage/VMware guy (though he's transitioning all the storage responsibilities to me...he backs me up on VMware). We have 2 network guys, 1 security guy (CISSP, firewalls, etc), and one monitoring guy (though the monitoring guy is really helpdesk/deskside support).

The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.


I would so love to get into vitrualization, but that means a ton of certifications and experience that I don't have :(

My company invests in analysts instead of techs or infrastructure. You know, the people that make work but can't actually do it.
2012-06-10 07:53:49 AM  
1 votes:

rohar: My team is running 20 "servers" per employee. I put server in quotes because many of them are multiple boxes behind load balancers. If we include ALL the employees of the company from HR to helpdesk we're still at about 10 servers per employee.

Of course, we wouldn't make the mistake of firing the DBA before we turned the lights out for the last time.


We're running about 60 servers per admin. Though that's not really accurate. My responsibility is virtualization (including VDI) and storage (EMC Clarion and Symmetrix). While I can and do the WinDoze and linux stuff, it's not my primary responsibility. We have 2 guys that do AD/Exchange/OCS/Windows. 1 SQL Server DBA, 1 Backup/Windows, and one Storage/VMware guy (though he's transitioning all the storage responsibilities to me...he backs me up on VMware). We have 2 network guys, 1 security guy (CISSP, firewalls, etc), and one monitoring guy (though the monitoring guy is really helpdesk/deskside support).

The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.
2012-06-10 07:50:54 AM  
1 votes:

mr intrepid: But, small government is all efficient, right?


I wish people would stop talking about "small government". Nobody actually wants it - least of all, those who shout for it the loudest.
2012-06-10 07:38:38 AM  
1 votes:

tgambitg: optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.

A good, well trained, properly funded IT department is like the Fire Department... There when shiat needs done, but they should be bored when it's calm.


Best described as hours of endless monotony intersected by moments of pure panic. If your IT department is bored, be grateful.
2012-06-10 06:48:35 AM  
1 votes:

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


Or the government and banks collude to engineer a financial meltdown. Bear in mind that counties don't fund operations from income tax.
2012-06-10 06:22:53 AM  
1 votes:
Obvious plan is obvious:

1. Demonize the public sector saying they're lazy and foster an 'us vs them' attitude with the general public. Accept applause when layoffs happen.
2. Let systems fail, because everyone is overworked. Point and say "See, I told you they were lazy, that guy gave up after only 80 hours this week!!"
3. Give a contract to your sister's husband's cousin's company to "come in a clean the mess", costing 4 times what it would have cost to keep the staff on from the layoffs.
4. Profit, and laugh at all the sheep.
2012-06-10 05:17:55 AM  
1 votes:

mxwjs: they simply fail to do things even reasonably efficiently.



Any actual citations to back this rhetoric up? Companies and governments always overpay for contracting work done and it's usually half assed. Just ask troops electrocuted when they take showers thanks to shoddy "private" contracting work. I bet it's efficient though. And cost less!
2012-06-10 03:52:00 AM  
1 votes:
An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.
2012-06-10 03:26:38 AM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?


Yes.

Link

This is like them getting peed on, right after they found out they had cancer. :(
2012-06-10 03:24:54 AM  
1 votes:

Superjew: DeltaPunch: It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well.

Pretty sure that's the idea.

/making profit in broken countries is like shooting fish in an oil barrel. None of those pesky regulations to gum up the works, a desperately pliable workforce that will slave for peanuts, etc. Republican Paradise.


And keep overspending on domestic surveillance and security since, once we're nearly entirely in 3rd world status, we don't want any unpredictable political uprisings upsetting the power structure.
2012-06-10 03:11:07 AM  
1 votes:

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Terrydatroll: derp

OK, looking over my favorites list: "Douchebag who uses "Democrat" as an adjective." "Right-wing schitthead." "'Holy fnck you're an idiot.' - Nina_Hartley's_Ass."

Too bad Terry doesn't belong in this company. He's not even trying.

*PLONK*


I think he might not like blah people.
2012-06-10 02:25:01 AM  
1 votes:

DeltaPunch: It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well.


Pretty sure that's the idea.

/making profit in broken countries is like shooting fish in an oil barrel. None of those pesky regulations to gum up the works, a desperately pliable workforce that will slave for peanuts, etc. Republican Paradise.
2012-06-10 02:21:13 AM  
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: Loren: This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


How cute, you think reality matches textbooks.


You need to troll Sabyen, he's probably drunk enough by now to be willing to take you on/out. I'd do it, but I'm going to bed soon.
2012-06-10 02:01:57 AM  
1 votes:

optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.


A good, well trained, properly funded IT department is like the Fire Department... There when shiat needs done, but they should be bored when it's calm.
2012-06-10 01:42:32 AM  
1 votes:

xen0blue: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

What makes you think it's a republican county....because it's alabama you assume it's republican? Do some research before you make assumptions and make yourself look stupid. Jefferson county, alabama is actually majority democratic. So, way to go democrats overspending their county into oblivion!


Yes, Alabama Democrat...totally liberal.
2012-06-10 01:38:58 AM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


What makes you think it's a republican county....because it's alabama you assume it's republican? Do some research before you make assumptions and make yourself look stupid. Jefferson county, alabama is actually majority democratic. So, way to go democrats overspending their county into oblivion!
2012-06-10 01:04:15 AM  
1 votes:

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


Efficiency List for cman:

HOW TO: Move Barrels of Waste
2012-06-10 01:03:21 AM  
1 votes:

xanadian: optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.

WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.


Heck, that's nothing. I did some work at a client site last year and they were still using a VAX. In 2011. A frickin' VAX.
2012-06-10 12:57:33 AM  
1 votes:

rohar: Never ever lay off the DBA before you quit paying the electrical bill. He's more important than electricity in a modern office.


I always wonder what would happen if we could get IT staff to organize on a national level. It would be an entity that effectively controls both the government and corporate worlds.
2012-06-10 12:55:17 AM  
1 votes:

Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.
2012-06-10 12:55:07 AM  
1 votes:

Ika7734: Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


I'm really grateful my former employer realized this and we were able to work together to get things done, not so grateful for the pillaging of the Canadian side of the business to save a few bucks on the US side but at least most of my time there was pleasent.

Another former IT worker going back to school to train in something more useful.
2012-06-10 12:45:09 AM  
1 votes:

LasersHurt: You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.


my little coding shop has gone through 7 good engineers in the last couple years, out of a total of 10 people. recently our best engineer walked out the door. management wont give any raises and constantly complains and changes directions, its a psychotic place to work. they have no clue how much knowledge they continually let walk out the door. and then they wonder why projects dont get finished. the situation in the article is typical i think of too many organizations. those who dont have a grasp on the reality of IT tend to discount it when everything is going smoothly and they can click their buttons and the machines are humming. then they wonder, gee we spend a bunch on these geeks.. we could save a bunch of money with fewer of them.. i mean geez seems like they just spend all their time on Fark anyway.. and then something goes wrong, and the guys who could probably troubleshoot the problem and fix it right away are'nt there, and the poor saps that are, but dont have the particular knowledge, have to figure things out from scratch, which takes too much time and effort.

// sorry for the ramble.. this article touched a nerve.
2012-06-10 12:42:03 AM  
1 votes:
Speaking as someone who worked in IT, was laid off for budgetary reasons, and then had their old company's IT infrastructure crash when they weren't there to maintain in it, I just have to say "Hahahahahahahahahahaha."

I worked for a company that ran the recording systems in court rooms around the country. Got laid off because an outside company convinced the senile old guy running the company they would be a cheaper and more reliable IT solution than I was (even though most of my time was spent fixing stuff they screwed up). Apparently a few weeks after I was let go the whole damn network crashed and the outside company wouldn't even answer phone calls for a few days. After they had been fired and my former company had gone through a few other IT people I went to lunch with some of my old friends that worked there in other departments. It seemed my old manager heard they were having lunch with me and told them to try to get me back. Fark you! I'm gone and have since realized what utter and complete shiat working in IT is.

I'm a nursing student now. Even if all I do is change old people diapers all day long, there's still less shiat than working in IT.
2012-06-10 12:34:53 AM  
1 votes:
As a computer tech for a public school system, I'm getting a kick out of these replies....

Our district has $20 million+ saved up and we have a network consisting of 6,000+ devices, and 5 Techs counting the Tech Coordinator and the Sys Admin. So essentially 3 techs for twelve fairly large campuses. The superintendent however, refuses to have a computer in his office because he doesn't understand it and thinks IT is absolutely worthless, but throws an absolute shiat fit when we can't inventory, load apps, and deploy 600 ipads, 2 days after delivery. Then throws an even bigger shiat fit once they are deployed because he didn't listen when he was told there was serious infrastructure worked that needed to be done to the wireless to support said ipads. Not sure if my job will be there next school year, but at this point i'm so fed up I don't really care.
2012-06-10 12:24:02 AM  
1 votes:

Loren: leadmetal: So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?

Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


The problem with the outsourcing is that it usually goes to someone who has friends in government so it works out the same or worse.
2012-06-10 12:21:50 AM  
1 votes:

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


I don't think that is true. Corporations have been cutting "non-essential" positions for years and it is now coming back to bite them in the ass with lowered productivity. Corps seem to think the answer is always downsizing and dumping the extra work on the rest of the team. Can't do it forever.
2012-06-10 12:14:22 AM  
1 votes:
So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?
2012-06-10 12:12:52 AM  
1 votes:
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
2012-06-10 12:07:10 AM  
1 votes:

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was


Hell, some, nay nearly all of us are still part of the problem even after we got out.
2012-06-10 12:06:48 AM  
1 votes:
There are danger in signing maintenance contracts without having IT check it out first.

They you might need... A Contract-Killer


3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-06-10 12:06:32 AM  
1 votes:

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.

Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.


We could have gone without mentioning SAP.

*eye twitch*

I was the SAP biatch at my old job. Big Fortune 500 pharmaceutical company. Always sent to troubleshoot out of team. Most of the time, it was an ID10T error on the part of the users, but oh gawd, when something was farked up on the other side of things, was it ever. Then trying to run that over FDA approved Windows builds that weren't always "standard" made things even worse at times when you got into R&D areas.
2012-06-09 11:59:41 PM  
1 votes:
Oh what I wouldn't give to be a fly on a wall in that situation...

As someone said earlier. Paper, pencil, calculator? OMG MATH AND WRITING R HARD!

In all seriousness, I've worked in IT for both government and private sector. In many places, the IT staff is very undervalued and often shoved aside. But, oh boy! When something breaks they are breaking down doors to find someone to fix it.

Legacy software and systems are by far the worst to deal with in terms of their users. Especially when you have to explain to them that the only machine to run a certain system has a fried motherboard that you can't get a replacement for and the software won't run on a newer system. And they were told months ago, they should probably migrate to a newer version on newer equipment because a failure was eminent. Gotta love it.
2012-06-09 11:58:55 PM  
1 votes:
Somewhere, right this moment, Grover Norquist is reading this article and furiously masturbating.
2012-06-09 11:57:23 PM  
1 votes:
Data Center: It's networking's fault
Network: It's voice's fault.
Voice: Email was down.
Deskside: It's summer. Several techs are on vacation.
Service Desk: Please hold.
2012-06-09 11:52:15 PM  
1 votes:
40 percent of the average office's IT staff sits there, picking their noses while watching videos all day.
Let's hope they laid off the right 40%.
2012-06-09 11:50:26 PM  
1 votes:

fragMasterFlash: OMG, this can only end badly! Unless management gets a bonus, that is...


Amen Brother. Move government operations closer and closer to private sector protocols and you get - well, read the article.

There was a time when basic operational skills were taught to every drunken frat-boy in year one on the way to their daddy-paid frat-boy MBA diploma. Crazy stuff like this: "You do away with people and you do away with outside maintenance contracts that take care of that proprietary equipment, and you're left with the inability to operate government," Stephens said.
Derptastic. And simply the state of things awaitin'
2012-06-09 11:49:31 PM  
1 votes:
I live in jeff co. Whats funny is the laid off a bunch of support staff and brought in a guy from roads and transportation to work on computers because he had seniority in the counties merit system.
2012-06-09 11:40:45 PM  
1 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: They can throw out the IT Dept. where I work. The lone requirement seems to be "Must have been born during the Eisenhower administration". We've got software that was copyrighted in 1980 for the love of FSM. Feels like we should be starting everything up in DOS prompt.

/And we're not a government agency


I'm worked for a department store credit department around 9 years ago. They had those old school workstations with the orange crt screens, the keyboards had the double row of F keys, dot matrix printers, and tape back ups. I think my computer was built in '86. I laughed when i saw it all. It was like going back in time...
2012-06-09 11:39:59 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.

But anything is better than nothing, right? Every little bit helps, especially if it's something repetitive and common.

You get the point I'm making here, right? I'm just finishing a bottle of Moscato that I started like two hours ago so I should probably say it right out.

You worked for the government. I'm sure you found things that could have been improved, otherwise your assertion that the government is inefficient at everything is bullshiat right from the get-go. What I get from you is that you knew it sucked, never bothered to try to fix or improve everything, and now biatch about how bad everything was.

If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


You try to fix it, and you're accused of insubordination.
2012-06-09 11:39:23 PM  
1 votes:
just go back to COBOL
2012-06-09 11:33:57 PM  
1 votes:
They can throw out the IT Dept. where I work. The lone requirement seems to be "Must have been born during the Eisenhower administration". We've got software that was copyrighted in 1980 for the love of FSM. Feels like we should be starting everything up in DOS prompt.

/And we're not a government agency
2012-06-09 11:30:17 PM  
1 votes:

tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?


Wait until they price it out. Cloud can be a viable alternative, but you really have to analyze your use cases. Also, with all the privacy requirements, most government agencies really can't get involved with cloud stuff, not unless everything is certified compliant, which usually means even more money.

IT doesn't have to be complicated at all, but you do need to hire and keep some good people, or it gets really difficult fast.
2012-06-09 11:28:58 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.


you need to look up what the word hypocrite means.
basically you're a f*cking idiot.
2012-06-09 11:27:54 PM  
1 votes:
It's ok. We don't need government. Big business will take care of us. Oh, and God, God will also take care of us. Just not the government or the school system or foreigners. They suck.

Damn it, where are my god damn fritos? If it's not one thing, it's another.
2012-06-09 11:23:13 PM  
1 votes:
If SAP can run on an old 486, it must have run so horribly slow I'm surprised anyone noticed it was offline.

If I wasn't a state employee myself, I'd find this pretty amusing, but damn if it doesn't piss me off. State governments keep pulling the plug on so many positions and important infrastructure, I'm actually becoming worried that something seriously bad is going to happen. It's one thing for it to be the server that runs the financials, but my guess is that somewhere there's some ancient system about to implode that runs something more important, like the local 911 service, or some other security/emergency system.
2012-06-09 11:22:43 PM  
1 votes:
I think this qualifies as irony: you cut your IT staff to save money and that causes your financial software to collapse which causes you to lose money.

But I'm sure the folks in charge of the cost-cutting were probably saying something like "Hold mah bawr and watch this!" when they made the decision.
2012-06-09 11:18:37 PM  
1 votes:
OMG, this can only end badly! Unless management gets a bonus, that is...
2012-06-09 11:18:33 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


Hey now. I normally agree with you, but it seems you're being a prick here. Everyone has their sphere of influence. If you make everything within your sphere of influence as efficient as possible, you've done all you can.

I've been in jobs where we've done all we can to gain efficiency, but we're sitting around with our thumbs up our asses. In that case, the thumb up the ass is excused. Sometimes your job is to babysit an empty store. Sometimes it's to sit in a kitchen where nobody's ordering food. Sometimes it's to occupy a hill that nobody's trying to take that particular day.

Lay off.
2012-06-09 11:03:44 PM  
1 votes:
You turn into Cuba?
2012-06-09 10:28:36 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


Have you ever worked in government?
2012-06-09 10:15:58 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?


If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.
2012-06-09 10:01:51 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.


There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency. I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.
2012-06-09 09:56:23 PM  
1 votes:

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was


I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.
2012-06-09 09:51:27 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?


Oh of course I was
2012-06-09 09:00:35 PM  
1 votes:
images.wikia.com
Yes, Black Betty, the mainframe. Boy, oh, boy. We thought about replacing her years ago, but then we thought, "Well, why not just cobble our new systems to the old one, with untold miles of spaghetti code and obsolete co-ax cable?" It was an executive decision. We figured it would save money in the short run, and only later plunge the company into darkness, after we executives had all left for other companies.
2012-06-09 08:23:27 PM  
1 votes:

xanadian: Also: this is kind of a strange thread to greenlight, but ...whatever.


I've given up trying to figure out the plan for randomly greelighting TFD threads.
2012-06-09 07:47:59 PM  
1 votes:
Also: this is kind of a strange thread to greenlight, but ...whatever.
2012-06-09 07:37:39 PM  
1 votes:
Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.
2012-06-09 06:57:27 PM  
1 votes:

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


Yes, yes it is.
 
Displayed 106 of 106 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report