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(AL.com)   We laid off 40 percent of our IT staff and refused to upgrade outdated equipment...let's watch what happens   (blog.al.com) divider line 347
    More: Fail, Jefferson County, information technology, Emergency Management Agency, computer crashes, county manager, equipment  
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38673 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2012 at 11:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-10 08:41:48 AM  
Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.
 
2012-06-10 08:44:29 AM  

slayer199: The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.


THIS.

I've worked in development teams that won't spend £250 for SQL Compare. So instead, they rely on a load of manual processes that cost far, far more, like keeping a whole set of scripts that were applied during the testing process. Then one gets missed, or someone doesn't set a default or something.

Also, places doing loads of DB imports that rather than just buying BizTalk for $10,000, build their own farking file listener tech and management costing far more.
 
2012-06-10 08:49:53 AM  
Ceteris Paribus says [TotalFark] 2012-06-09 06:56:08 PM

That's symptomatic of severe financial distress



More like, that's symptomatic idiot conservative thinking. Actually, you can barely call it thought. It's just plain idiocy and greed.

Cuz they don't need no hippy IT people. They just get paid to sit around and look at a computer screen all day. Hell those computers can watch themselves. They can just call their receptionist an IT person and pay her 15 cents more an hour to press the reset button when things get bogged down.

Good enough.
 
2012-06-10 08:51:02 AM  

wademh: An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.


As someone working in the IT-service industry I am always amazed at the complete lack of perspective and unbelievable short-sightedness of some managers and companies.

I don't understand how somebody can complain and whine that they absolutely need this or that system working immediately because every hour it is costing them a small fortune, when they already knew how important the system was when they declined to pay for redundancies and more comprehensive SLAs.

You see this blindness at every level of IT. The customer who tries to buy a warranty upgrade for their laptop after it gets broken, The irate idiot who tries to explain on the phone that is using something for his business and therefore needs it back up working immediately, but for some reason only ever bought a license for private use. The small inhouse it outfit who decided to forego testing their backups and disaster recovery mechanisms because they were afraid they might not work. The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power supplies for their servers. I have seen five and six figure projects be endangered by attempts to save money on a component or license worth less than a hundred.

I can forgive the smaller scale idiots. They are just idiots but on the other end of the spectrum there are people being paid lots of moeny to make such decisions and still get things wrong. There are important decisions being made by people who know that a contract penalty incurred because of a broken system could ruin the entire company, who nonetheless are content to take the risks and forego any sort of appropriate redundancy in their setup.

Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with that sort of people. I get that not everyone can understand the technical details, but once they get the results explained to them they still decide to go with the 'cheaper' option. It is almost as if they are so used to being able to negotiate and bully people into doing what they want that they think the same tactic works on broken machinery. You might be able to get one worker to do the job of two others, that you fired for cost cutting reasons, in addition to his own, you won't be able to talk a server into handling more work than it honestly can. There is nothing a technician can do to make it run faster and the time wasted by hundreds of people who depend on the ageing system is worth much more than the cost of an upgrade or replacement.

There should be course in critical thinking and basic logic included in business studies.
 
2012-06-10 08:52:09 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorganhas been run by criminally incompetent people for the last 20 years?


FTFY. And yes, they made very bad decisions related to JPMorgan, but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.
 
2012-06-10 08:56:14 AM  
Many years ago I worked for a large university in Wisconsin. Our backup system was failing, and we kept asking the boss for money to replace it. For some reason he kept finding better things to do with the money, told us to make do.

Then one day the Police departments database crashed and was wiped. And of course, the backups were hosed. The boss tried to blame us for the mistake, but we had the numerous emails and requests for new equipment so it fell on his head. He was a very unpleasant person to deal with after that.

/left after a year
//former boss was 'promoted' out of the way
 
2012-06-10 09:08:16 AM  

Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power supplies for their servers.


Indeed. Too many IT managers don't understand the special value of interruptible power supplies.
 
2012-06-10 09:08:40 AM  
Does anybody know what the lettersSAP stands for?
Submit
And
Pray

/Been an SAP contractor since 1994
 
2012-06-10 09:10:35 AM  
Part of the reason it is going to take so long to get back up and running is that SAP support is awful.

My last job we would open a ticket with SAP and get a reply in the middle of the night from India. Usually with a question that we would answer the next day and wait 12 hours for the reply.

They get what they paid for. Not much
 
2012-06-10 09:17:30 AM  

Mark Ratner: Just wait for Y2K..shiat will hit the fan


That's not for another 36 years. We have plenty of time.
 
2012-06-10 09:18:21 AM  
They say nobody in IT is indispensable, but somebody there was.
 
2012-06-10 09:22:33 AM  

Loren: Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAAAAHHAHHA Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
 
2012-06-10 09:27:14 AM  
I rather like my old IT job at the University of Arizona: the research group I worked for didn't have huge piles of money, but they had enough funding to do things right most of the time.

For example, the computers in the lab controlled various DNA sequencers and other research equipment. They offloaded the data to a file storage server. The administration realized that this data was critical, so the storage system was a great multi-RAID-6-with-hot-spares system. They had a few spare disks sitting on the shelf so they could swap out failed disks and send them off for warranty replacement without running the array in a degraded state (we considered an intact array running without a hot spare as "degraded"). That storage array was backed up to tape every night.

All the computers driving the instruments had full-system images taken monthly, differential images taken every week, and incremental images taken every night. Images were automatically merged into each other over time on a "rolling window" basis so we had a six-month rolling window of backups. The entire backup chain for each system was validated nightly to ensure integrity. While they didn't store research data, it would have taken days to reinstall these systems from scratch, install the software, import all the calibrations, etc. When one of the systems failed, we replaced it with a spare, wrote the image to it, replaced the hardware interface card for the instrument, and had it back up and running within two hours. The lab director was there the whole time (he was really cool and was a bit antsy about the system being down) and he had this look of amazement, as if he were watching us do magic. Evidently there was room in the budget for beer and pizza after that one.

The IT director in this group had a pretty good policy: if you have idle time (which means systems are working well), try to use that time to figure out new ways of improving how things worked. Whether that's doing more development on the in-house web-based lab management system, researching better backup systems, virtualizing servers (where appropriate), etc. If we could provide suitable justification, funding could be made available for certain projects (but not everything, of course). Constant maintenance and improvement kept things running smoothly for us, made the scientists more productive, and kept the whole research group happy.

Of course, I took off my jack-of-all-trades IT hat, went to grad school (different school), and am on the other side of the IT/science fence. It's weird being on this side.
 
2012-06-10 09:35:29 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I think this qualifies as irony: you cut your IT staff to save money and that causes your financial software to collapse which causes you to lose money.


I came to say this.

They couldn't pay everyone, so steps were taken. Now they can't pay anyone.

Take a note, Alanis.
 
2012-06-10 09:43:57 AM  
I think IT workers should unionize.
 
2012-06-10 09:51:51 AM  
A freaking 486??? I'm 18 and I have NEVER used a 486...
/I've used an Apple ][ in second grade though
//I wish I knew where it ended up- it may still be in that classroom
///There was a junkyard of computer equipment in the choir room of my Middle School
////I'll stop with the slashes now...
 
2012-06-10 09:54:39 AM  
As someone who is currently in the middle of converting databases from the old ERP to SAP, I am totally not getting a kick out of this article.

/gonna go hide under a desk somewhere
 
2012-06-10 09:57:33 AM  

cavehobbit: 1d10ts.


For a second I couldn't figure out what the "t" was for. Also what the hell is with your booty pic? That shiat burns the eyes.
 
2012-06-10 09:58:55 AM  
CSB:
Also, my teacher told me a story about how, way back in 1995 she had to repair the neighboring county's network system- apparently the whole network was connected on one serial line- so that if a single network card failed anywhere in the county (which is huge), the whole county would go down. Since the cards weren't reliable- this happened very often. I think she ended up running the whole system in parallel, but still- sounds like absolute hell.

/Again, there are seniors who were not born yet when this took place...
 
2012-06-10 10:08:08 AM  
The amusing thing about this "Race to the Bottom" is that those who are winning it really believe they are WINNING.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-10 10:15:31 AM  
Heh, how's that focus on the "bottom line" working out for ya'?
 
2012-06-10 10:15:35 AM  
They administrated their way into this so I'm sure they can administrate their way out of it.
 
2012-06-10 10:37:37 AM  

Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power


That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?
 
2012-06-10 10:40:00 AM  

JustGetItRight: but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.


Like I said, Alabamastan. They probably have pictures of Evil Bert on the posters they chant behind, even.
 
2012-06-10 10:41:07 AM  
When Y2K comes, you're screwed.
 
2012-06-10 10:46:59 AM  

farkeruk: slayer199: The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.

THIS.

I've worked in development teams that won't spend £250 for SQL Compare. So instead, they rely on a load of manual processes that cost far, far more, like keeping a whole set of scripts that were applied during the testing process. Then one gets missed, or someone doesn't set a default or something.

Uh, you realize SQL Compare is built in to Visual Studio now right?


Also, places doing loads of DB imports that rather than just buying BizTalk for $10,000, build their own farking file listener tech and management costing far more.


I manage about 2TB worth of filestreams per day. Most require CEP and are encoded in interesting ways due to the subject matters. To do something similar on BizTalk would tripple the size of our interpretation footprint AND increase TTM by 4x. And yes, I did evaluate it. Welcome to internet time when all solutions aren't as simple as an accounting package.

Your favorite off the shelf package isn't always the cheapest.

That said, the OP is correct. The difference in output between an average practitioner and an excellent practitioner can be an order of magnitude with the cost difference between the two only about 30%. Sometimes when you pay more, you get more than you pay for.
 
2012-06-10 10:48:02 AM  

ArmanTanzarian: Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.


Newman!
 
2012-06-10 10:51:03 AM  

CheatCommando: Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power

That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?


Sometimes, when things seem to be running too smoothly, and management is losing sight of the mission critical nature of IT, or near time for annual reviews, we send a ping to the interruptible power supplies for the servers and bring the whole kit and caboodle down. Some consider it blackmail but we prefer to think of it as a second generation approach to proactive risk management.
 
2012-06-10 10:56:42 AM  

farkmedown: ArmanTanzarian: Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.

Newman!


Is Dodgson here?

/nobdody cares
 
2012-06-10 11:03:27 AM  

wademh: CheatCommando: Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power

That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?

Sometimes, when things seem to be running too smoothly, and management is losing sight of the mission critical nature of IT, or near time for annual reviews, we send a ping to the interruptible power supplies for the servers and bring the whole kit and caboodle down. Some consider it blackmail but we prefer to think of it as a second generation approach to proactive risk management.


The pun. You missed it.
 
2012-06-10 11:13:46 AM  

CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.


You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.
 
2012-06-10 11:15:00 AM  

LasersHurt: You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.


Just outsource everything.
 
2012-06-10 11:15:15 AM  

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


No, it is a symptom of government run stupidity. A private company would have kept things up to date in a cost effective way. Government has no incentive since taxpayer money is free.
 
2012-06-10 11:16:50 AM  

CruJones: CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.

You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


Your sysad's name is Rodney. Interesting, we let go a guy named Rodney a few years ago. Performance issues.
 
2012-06-10 11:24:27 AM  

CruJones: CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.

You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


If you EVER have to wake Rodney in the middle of the night you didn't design/maintain your datacenter real well did you?

/yeah, I know, that node's hosed
//vpn in, mark it down on the load balancer
///take care of it in the morning
 
2012-06-10 11:30:44 AM  
This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.
 
2012-06-10 11:36:21 AM  
costplustyres.com
 
2012-06-10 11:51:50 AM  

cc_rider: BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?

Yes.

Link

This is like them getting peed on, right after they found out they had cancer. :(


You say "getting peed on" like it's a bad thing.
 
2012-06-10 11:57:56 AM  
First problem.... these idiots in Jefferson County are using SAP.
 
2012-06-10 11:58:49 AM  

Earguy: eraser8: Earguy: Keep your ear to the ground for new work.

Everything's about ears with you, isn't it?

You haven't seen me in sports threads, have you?

/ears are important


"Ears to you, Mrs. Robinson..."
 
2012-06-10 12:23:04 PM  

rohar: Uh, you realize SQL Compare is built in to Visual Studio now right?


In Premium and Ultimate editions, it is. Not in Pro.

And yeah, I'm not saying BizTalk is amazing, but I've seen it used very well in a couple of places.
 
2012-06-10 12:23:09 PM  

GoldSpider: I would so love to get into vitrualization, but that means a ton of certifications and experience that I don't have :(


I don't have a VMware cert and I've been doing it for 5 years. You just need to get a gig that will get you the experience.

My company invests in analysts instead of techs or infrastructure. You know, the people that make work but can't actually do it.

Awhile back I worked for one of the big 3 Automakers. They'd re-org ever 6-8 months. After each re-org they'd promote techs to team leads so we ended up with fewer techs and more team leads whose primary function was pulling metrics on how efficient we were. Think that one over.

I had a gig a couple years ago. 1 boss...50 people reported to him. We met with him once a week. He basically set direction and left us alone to do our jobs. If someone put up a roadblock, he'd step in and knock it down. He was technical enough to understand what we were doing and supportive. They weren't afraid to save money so long as we could write a business case as to how it would make us more efficient or proactive. One of the best bosses I've ever had.

My current gig is like that...though my direct report is very technical, his boss is like that...very supportive of what we do and not afraid to spend money if it helps stability and the people in the field to do their jobs. Though it wasn't always that way...they found out the hard way before I arrived that cutting corners on IT hurts their business.
 
2012-06-10 12:24:59 PM  
*Sigh* This sounds like my workplace.
We have ancient equipment (but the management all just got new laptops), I'm the only one who knows how to program the PBX's, and I have to share certain programs with my 3 other co-workers on a network drive because the company won't buy more than 1 license, and the co-workers like to mess up the settings or delete things from the program...

And this is at a Fortune 50 company...
 
2012-06-10 12:31:43 PM  
Here I was thinking they were talking about my company! Still rocking Windows XP/2000 on almost every computer, as well as non-flatscreen monitors and software so old, that even the "updated" version they've started to roll out is from 2008. Getting any work done is a challenge and I probably spend a combined hour of my day waiting for the POS to load.

But hey, our CEO is concerned about cutting support costs and getting customers to spend more money. Let's reduce our staff and keep using infuriatingly slow systems! That'll be GREAT!
 
2012-06-10 12:31:43 PM  

Hale-Bopp: This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.


And yet Wisconsin unemployment is getting better under Walker.......
 
2012-06-10 12:38:41 PM  

rohar: That said, the OP is correct. The difference in output between an average practitioner and an excellent practitioner can be an order of magnitude with the cost difference between the two only about 30%. Sometimes when you pay more, you get more than you pay for.


THIS ^^^

The last gig I had, they had outsourced Tier 1-2 to an Indian company who brought their VMware tech to the US. He was horrible. I took him a couple days to build 4 VMs from a template. His primary job was Tier 1-2 support so he should have been able to handle that (especially since I wrote a doc on the template including screenshots for everything). He couldn't fix common VMware errors...didn't know where to look when things were broken, etc. Just to prove a point, I spun up 40 VMs from a template in 2 hours for stress-testing in our lab.

Since I had completed all I could do in terms of engineering (setting up VMware globally including infrastructure, testing, standards and documentation), the handwriting was on the wall so I left. They asked what it would take for me to stay. I told them get rid of the Tier 1-2 guy and let me handle support for VMware globally. I told them I'd save them the $60k a year (probably $45/hr billable) they were spending on the guy. Yes, I was much more expensive at $75/hr 1099, but I could easily do his job AND my job. They declined and they're finding out how crappy the support is now that I'm gone (and I took a pay cut to get my current gig which is a direct hire). Though to be honest, I'm better off in my new gig for less money because I'm learning new things which will make me more valuable down the line and it's a helluva lot more fun to go to work.

Outsourcing seldom saves a company money. Yes, guys like me are expensive...but we're expensive because we're good.
 
2012-06-10 12:45:52 PM  

CruJones: You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


More likely is private clouds. I know my company would never go to something like Amazon's EC2. They want full control over the data which is the lifeblood of our business. For smaller companies, I can see going to hosted mail or servers...it makes sense. You don't need to have a network or storage guy...just a sysadmin to run the servers. "The Cloud" is overhyped (just like VDI). At the end of the day, It really depends on the needs of the business and the users.
 
2012-06-10 01:02:08 PM  

Thunderpipes: Hale-Bopp: This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.

And yet Wisconsin unemployment is getting better under Walker.......


If by better you mean there's more of it, then yes. The unemployment rate still sits at 9% in my county alone. Hilarious that you think otherwise, but then you don't live in Wisconsin and haven't been experiencing it first hand like I have. I'll take my own word for it.
 
2012-06-10 01:06:50 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: Di Atribe: mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.

Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.

If I was voted into office, you would be in charge of graphing the power rankings for the NFL teams. If you did well, I might even promote you to the manager of the football pool.


I would serve with honor, good sir! Man, that would be so great if I could get paid to just have fun all day.
 
2012-06-10 01:08:35 PM  

Thunderpipes: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

No, it is a symptom of government run stupidity. A private company would have kept things up to date in a cost effective way. Government has no incentive since taxpayer money is free.


You didn't RTFA did you.
 
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