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(AL.com)   We laid off 40 percent of our IT staff and refused to upgrade outdated equipment...let's watch what happens   (blog.al.com) divider line 347
    More: Fail, Jefferson County, information technology, Emergency Management Agency, computer crashes, county manager, equipment  
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38662 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2012 at 11:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-09 06:52:21 PM
You laid off Ford Prefect?
That was a bad idea.
 
2012-06-09 06:56:08 PM
That's symptomatic of severe financial distress
 
2012-06-09 06:56:35 PM
Since Tuesday, the hardware problem has slowed or stopped transactions in the finance, treasurer and purchasing departments, preventing vendor payments and deposits and delaying preparation of the fiscal 2011 audit, according to county officials.

They don't care if their payments are late and that it effects small businesses. You, however, better not be late with your payments to government.
 
2012-06-09 06:57:27 PM

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


Yes, yes it is.
 
2012-06-09 07:08:47 PM
Keep your ear to the ground for new work.
 
2012-06-09 07:10:46 PM

Earguy: Keep your ear to the ground for new work.


Everything's about ears with you, isn't it?
 
2012-06-09 07:15:51 PM

eraser8: Earguy: Keep your ear to the ground for new work.

Everything's about ears with you, isn't it?


You haven't seen me in sports threads, have you?

/ears are important
 
2012-06-09 07:17:09 PM
Just wait for Y2K..shiat will hit the fan
 
2012-06-09 07:30:24 PM
"and delaying preparation of the fiscal 2011 audit, according to county officials."

Not that I'm cynical or anything.
 
2012-06-09 07:37:39 PM
Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.
 
2012-06-09 07:41:25 PM

optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.


WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.

O.o

Needless to say, everyone has either XP or Win 7 now.

I love being able to drive the technological bus where I work...
 
2012-06-09 07:41:51 PM
To ears!
 
2012-06-09 07:43:32 PM
This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?
 
2012-06-09 07:43:51 PM
Workers were able to restore the server but are looking for a way to load SAP programs and data, Petelos said. "If successful, SAP should be available within 24 hours," he said. "If unsuccessful, a complete rebuild of the system will be required and could take up to five days."

Translation: Our backups are probably crap and we'll have to reinstall and reconfigure everything from scratch (assuming there's anyone left who knows how to do it).
 
2012-06-09 07:47:59 PM
Also: this is kind of a strange thread to greenlight, but ...whatever.
 
2012-06-09 07:56:40 PM
Its not just county governments that are cutting on infrastructure and people. The company I work for is just about putting out fires now, not preventing them. They save in the short run, pay out the nose when shiat hits the fan. People say the same for places they work.

/not a fireman or otolaryngologist
 
2012-06-09 07:57:19 PM

basemetal: Since Tuesday, the hardware problem has slowed or stopped transactions in the finance, treasurer and purchasing departments, preventing vendor payments and deposits and delaying preparation of the fiscal 2011 audit, according to county officials.

They don't care if their payments are late and that it effects small businesses. You, however, better not be late with your payments to government.


Sorry bub, government isn't any different from anyone else. They'll be pushing the fire truck to the next fire. Assuming it hasn't been repossessed.
 
2012-06-09 08:09:03 PM
A wheel in the ditch, and a wheel on the tracks.
 
2012-06-09 08:21:02 PM
i123.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-09 08:21:25 PM
SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.
 
2012-06-09 08:23:27 PM

xanadian: Also: this is kind of a strange thread to greenlight, but ...whatever.


I've given up trying to figure out the plan for randomly greelighting TFD threads.
 
2012-06-09 08:30:54 PM
I shipped a dog for my girlfriends sister last month. The airline I used still had Windows 3.11 systems.
 
2012-06-09 08:36:48 PM
for a second there, I thought this was a story about my now former employer....

Personally, I wish 'em the best of luck but they're not reinvesting in their infrastructure and laying off people with years of experience, and those of us who DIDN'T get laid off are retiring fast as they can.
 
2012-06-09 08:37:15 PM
Well, the system's back online as of Friday. Tune in again Monday for more of The Great Alabama Server Meltdown.
 
2012-06-09 08:53:32 PM
Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.
 
2012-06-09 08:55:59 PM

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure. you can only outsource so much before things fall apart. and lemme tell ya - SAP is a right bastard if you don't maintain it.
 
2012-06-09 08:59:26 PM

Weaver95: what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure


Where's the direct profit in it?

That's where free market ideology falls apart.
 
2012-06-09 09:00:35 PM
images.wikia.com
Yes, Black Betty, the mainframe. Boy, oh, boy. We thought about replacing her years ago, but then we thought, "Well, why not just cobble our new systems to the old one, with untold miles of spaghetti code and obsolete co-ax cable?" It was an executive decision. We figured it would save money in the short run, and only later plunge the company into darkness, after we executives had all left for other companies.
 
2012-06-09 09:19:35 PM

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


Same can be said for every government policy in existence
 
2012-06-09 09:20:00 PM
You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.
 
2012-06-09 09:35:01 PM

cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence


You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?
 
2012-06-09 09:49:31 PM
This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.
 
2012-06-09 09:51:27 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?


Oh of course I was
 
2012-06-09 09:56:23 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was


I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.
 
2012-06-09 10:01:51 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.


There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency. I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.
 
2012-06-09 10:03:33 PM

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


this is also what you get when you are alabama
 
2012-06-09 10:12:28 PM

cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.


I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?
 
2012-06-09 10:15:17 PM
Yep. Get new servers and hire the old IT staff as contractors at an increased rate and prove again how stupid you are. Most of the companies and organizations I have worked in have learned the hard way that "If IT ain't happy, nobody ain't happy."
 
2012-06-09 10:15:58 PM

GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?


If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.
 
2012-06-09 10:20:39 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


But anything is better than nothing, right? Every little bit helps, especially if it's something repetitive and common.

You get the point I'm making here, right? I'm just finishing a bottle of Moscato that I started like two hours ago so I should probably say it right out.

You worked for the government. I'm sure you found things that could have been improved, otherwise your assertion that the government is inefficient at everything is bullshiat right from the get-go. What I get from you is that you knew it sucked, never bothered to try to fix or improve everything, and now biatch about how bad everything was.

If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.
 
2012-06-09 10:28:36 PM

GAT_00: If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


Have you ever worked in government?
 
2012-06-09 10:30:40 PM

cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency. I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.


Then maybe you should direct your ire to those decision-makers instead of saying that all government is inefficient (or idiotic or fails horribly). When you talk about "government" like that, you're talking about everyone who makes a living working in the public sector. And that ain't right, man.
 
2012-06-09 10:34:43 PM

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: [images.wikia.com image 250x217]
Yes, Black Betty, the mainframe. Boy, oh, boy. We thought about replacing her years ago, but then we thought, "Well, why not just cobble our new systems to the old one, with untold miles of spaghetti code and obsolete co-ax cable?" It was an executive decision. We figured it would save money in the short run, and only later plunge the company into darkness, after we executives had all left for other companies.


The keyword is keyword

/Damn you
 
2012-06-09 10:41:22 PM

FishyFred: GAT_00: If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.

Have you ever worked in government?


Did you miss the part where I said I'm currently working for one government institution and a state school?
 
2012-06-09 10:54:32 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


We accuse Democrats of spend spend spending, but then Republicans like Tony Petelos cut funding, force IT to lay off their staff, and now Jefferson County is effectively crippled. It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well. The approach that any and all spending is evil sounds nice ideologically -- and may even score a few political points -- but it's just not a realistic solution for our country.
 
2012-06-09 11:03:44 PM
You turn into Cuba?
 
2012-06-09 11:18:26 PM
Yeah. Service Desk ass reaming followed by some Lean Six Sigma project managers with capes.

/Did you reboot?
 
2012-06-09 11:18:33 PM

GAT_00: If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


Hey now. I normally agree with you, but it seems you're being a prick here. Everyone has their sphere of influence. If you make everything within your sphere of influence as efficient as possible, you've done all you can.

I've been in jobs where we've done all we can to gain efficiency, but we're sitting around with our thumbs up our asses. In that case, the thumb up the ass is excused. Sometimes your job is to babysit an empty store. Sometimes it's to sit in a kitchen where nobody's ordering food. Sometimes it's to occupy a hill that nobody's trying to take that particular day.

Lay off.
 
2012-06-09 11:18:37 PM
OMG, this can only end badly! Unless management gets a bonus, that is...
 
2012-06-09 11:22:43 PM
I think this qualifies as irony: you cut your IT staff to save money and that causes your financial software to collapse which causes you to lose money.

But I'm sure the folks in charge of the cost-cutting were probably saying something like "Hold mah bawr and watch this!" when they made the decision.
 
2012-06-09 11:23:13 PM
If SAP can run on an old 486, it must have run so horribly slow I'm surprised anyone noticed it was offline.

If I wasn't a state employee myself, I'd find this pretty amusing, but damn if it doesn't piss me off. State governments keep pulling the plug on so many positions and important infrastructure, I'm actually becoming worried that something seriously bad is going to happen. It's one thing for it to be the server that runs the financials, but my guess is that somewhere there's some ancient system about to implode that runs something more important, like the local 911 service, or some other security/emergency system.
 
2012-06-09 11:25:08 PM
Bet they got a full complement of fully automatic assault rifles, body armor, and military-grade weaponry, though.
 
2012-06-09 11:26:18 PM
Is the power cord plugged in?
 
2012-06-09 11:26:27 PM
Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?
 
2012-06-09 11:27:24 PM
I guess somebody didn't do the needful
 
2012-06-09 11:27:54 PM
It's ok. We don't need government. Big business will take care of us. Oh, and God, God will also take care of us. Just not the government or the school system or foreigners. They suck.

Damn it, where are my god damn fritos? If it's not one thing, it's another.
 
2012-06-09 11:28:39 PM
media.al.com

My decisions were good, it was the implementation!
 
2012-06-09 11:28:58 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.


you need to look up what the word hypocrite means.
basically you're a f*cking idiot.
 
2012-06-09 11:29:21 PM
The Carl's Jr. drive-thru screen had a "found new hardware wizard" dialog on it yesterday.
 
2012-06-09 11:30:17 PM

tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?


Wait until they price it out. Cloud can be a viable alternative, but you really have to analyze your use cases. Also, with all the privacy requirements, most government agencies really can't get involved with cloud stuff, not unless everything is certified compliant, which usually means even more money.

IT doesn't have to be complicated at all, but you do need to hire and keep some good people, or it gets really difficult fast.
 
2012-06-09 11:30:40 PM

tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?


Well, here's the thing. In this case, it appears they've been allowed to underinvest in the maintenance of their SAP system. If they moved to the cloud, they would have been forced to pay proper maintenance for their financials.
 
2012-06-09 11:30:46 PM

Cake Hunter: To ears!


'ere, 'ere!
 
2012-06-09 11:32:35 PM

Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.


Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.
 
2012-06-09 11:33:44 PM
Also you can try to be as efficient as possible but if the boss puts the kibosh on any changes you want to make then there is nothing you can do. I spent months at my last job trying to weed out old unnecessary crap that was made our office and storage areas look like something out of hoarders. But about 95% of the time i was not allowed to get rid of anything in case "we needed it". Trying to find anything in that place was an adventure in frustration and no amount of begging or pleading would change that. And don't even get me started and their computers. I'm not even an IT guy but I suddenly became one.
 
2012-06-09 11:33:57 PM
They can throw out the IT Dept. where I work. The lone requirement seems to be "Must have been born during the Eisenhower administration". We've got software that was copyrighted in 1980 for the love of FSM. Feels like we should be starting everything up in DOS prompt.

/And we're not a government agency
 
2012-06-09 11:33:59 PM

Benjamin Orr: I guess somebody didn't do the needful


Perhaps they didn't ask for the correct advise?
 
2012-06-09 11:39:23 PM
just go back to COBOL
 
2012-06-09 11:39:39 PM

cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county. Along with the successful business goes tax revenue. JC is a lost cause. No one can live there nor would they want to. Has nothing to do with Republicans. Same thing happened in Selma and trust me, you don't even want to take that exit off I-65.
 
2012-06-09 11:39:59 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.

But anything is better than nothing, right? Every little bit helps, especially if it's something repetitive and common.

You get the point I'm making here, right? I'm just finishing a bottle of Moscato that I started like two hours ago so I should probably say it right out.

You worked for the government. I'm sure you found things that could have been improved, otherwise your assertion that the government is inefficient at everything is bullshiat right from the get-go. What I get from you is that you knew it sucked, never bothered to try to fix or improve everything, and now biatch about how bad everything was.

If you never try to fix something that's wrong, you're to blame too. Because not only did you see something was wrong, you intentionally refused to fix it. And to me, that's worse, to see a problem and refuse to fix it, and then biatch about it like it's all someone else's fault. If you're involved, you're to blame too.


You try to fix it, and you're accused of insubordination.
 
2012-06-09 11:40:45 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: They can throw out the IT Dept. where I work. The lone requirement seems to be "Must have been born during the Eisenhower administration". We've got software that was copyrighted in 1980 for the love of FSM. Feels like we should be starting everything up in DOS prompt.

/And we're not a government agency


I'm worked for a department store credit department around 9 years ago. They had those old school workstations with the orange crt screens, the keyboards had the double row of F keys, dot matrix printers, and tape back ups. I think my computer was built in '86. I laughed when i saw it all. It was like going back in time...
 
2012-06-09 11:43:06 PM
I guess since this is the 21st century, Jefferson County has never heard of a little thing called a calculator or pencil and paper.

/there was actually life before the year 1980, I swear it.
 
2012-06-09 11:45:06 PM
You get a government bailout
 
2012-06-09 11:45:54 PM

WhackingDay: Wait until they price it out. Cloud can be a viable alternative, but you really have to analyze your use cases. Also, with all the privacy requirements, most government agencies really can't get involved with cloud stuff, not unless everything is certified compliant, which usually means even more money.


So usually the "certifications" mean something fairly arbitrary. They'll usually piggyback onto something FIPS compliant.

The real question is around availability and responsiveness. Cloud providers pretty much universally only guarantee 3 9's, and even then it's only around service availability, rather than data availability. Most enterprises design for 4 to 5 9's service and data availability. So where I see people tripping up internally is where they design to assure availability numbers that the cloud providers aren't even shooting for or even mentioning. Seeing that every extra nine after 3 costs 10x the price of the solution, it really doesn't surprise me that internal shops can't compete on price.

Then you have the responsiveness, which ties into that as well. If you are designing for 4 or 5 9's then you need a lot of structure in place to ensure that you can achieve that. If you can take 10 hours of unplanned downtime a year, then you don't have to go through all that stuff (and I assure you your cloud provider doesn't).

I went through this all the time when I managed a data center. "How much data loss can we tolerate in the event of a data center failure for this app?" "None." "OK, here's the bill for a zero data loss solution. Or we could take 10 minutes data loss and it will cost about 5% of that. Your call."
 
2012-06-09 11:46:08 PM
Vendors gonna vend.
Lawyers gonna law.
 
2012-06-09 11:46:17 PM
Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county

i437.photobucket.com">
 
2012-06-09 11:48:51 PM

lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.


Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.
 
2012-06-09 11:49:14 PM
Those IT guys...they're just an expense. And why can't we run a 10 year-old server running Windows 2000 as a domain controller? It's still working, amirite? Virtualization? What is that?

Yes, IT costs money...but doing it right will save money in the long run.
 
2012-06-09 11:49:31 PM
I live in jeff co. Whats funny is the laid off a bunch of support staff and brought in a guy from roads and transportation to work on computers because he had seniority in the counties merit system.
 
2012-06-09 11:50:26 PM

fragMasterFlash: OMG, this can only end badly! Unless management gets a bonus, that is...


Amen Brother. Move government operations closer and closer to private sector protocols and you get - well, read the article.

There was a time when basic operational skills were taught to every drunken frat-boy in year one on the way to their daddy-paid frat-boy MBA diploma. Crazy stuff like this: "You do away with people and you do away with outside maintenance contracts that take care of that proprietary equipment, and you're left with the inability to operate government," Stephens said.
Derptastic. And simply the state of things awaitin'
 
2012-06-09 11:50:36 PM

Tellingthem: I'm worked for a department store credit department around 9 years ago. They had those old school workstations with the orange crt screens, the keyboards had the double row of F keys, dot matrix printers, and tape back ups. I think my computer was built in '86. I laughed when i saw it all. It was like going back in time...


I work in insurance so old people who haven't had to adapt is far from unusual but the current workplace is like stepping in to 1992. I fully expect to walk in Monday to a conversation about how funny "Full House" was on Friday.
 
2012-06-09 11:52:15 PM
40 percent of the average office's IT staff sits there, picking their noses while watching videos all day.
Let's hope they laid off the right 40%.
 
2012-06-09 11:53:37 PM

Fiction Fan: Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county

[i437.photobucket.com image 538x362]">


"Just so ya know, Jefferson County be in financial trouble cus da people and businesses who actually make money is movin out of JC and gots been fo years cus increasin population of African American influence in da county - aww yea foo"

Not sure if that helps, it was the first eubonics translator page on google.
 
2012-06-09 11:53:49 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.

Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.


I reckon you could go with Oracle and see how they do. They'll rape you, stick you with the bar tab, and then complain you didn't pay for the hotel room.

The problem with business process software isn't the software. It's that it's all about business process. If you have a hard time fixing processes in a manual world, software isn't going to solve it - in fact it'll more likely magnify the problem.
 
2012-06-09 11:55:40 PM
But, small government is all efficient, right?
 
2012-06-09 11:57:03 PM

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


Not really. Cutting maintenance is one of the common "easy" cuts. Never mind that it usually costs more in the long run.

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


But look at how the politician's pet projects fair.

Tellingthem: Ken VeryBigLiar: They can throw out the IT Dept. where I work. The lone requirement seems to be "Must have been born during the Eisenhower administration". We've got software that was copyrighted in 1980 for the love of FSM. Feels like we should be starting everything up in DOS prompt.

/And we're not a government agency

I'm worked for a department store credit department around 9 years ago. They had those old school workstations with the orange crt screens, the keyboards had the double row of F keys, dot matrix printers, and tape back ups. I think my computer was built in '86. I laughed when i saw it all. It was like going back in time...


I've got a double row of F keys on the left of this keyboard. While they aren't nearly as vital as they used to be I still make plenty of use of them even running the latest and greatest. I much prefer them on the left because I can touch type them, I can't reliably touch type the ones up on top.
 
2012-06-09 11:57:20 PM
What I never got was how my last employer treated the IT guys. The first department to get anything new, from chairs to computers, was H.R. The last two departments to get anything new was Accounting and IT.

As bad as Accounting had it, IT had it worse. Their A+ techs were paid less than $10/hr on average and were the guys tasked with repairing all the computers in the company, not to mention basic software upgrades. The guys that were in jobs that required bachelors degrees in the IT department were paid less than $15/hour salaried, worked every other weekend on top of their 45 work week (that company believed that if you were salaried you had to put in at least 45 hours a week, but only paid for 40), not to mention late nights if something went wrong with the network. Our IT department had to justify every expense, even if it was a screw driver for the A+ guys to my boss (I worked accounting, expense reporting), attach receipts and detailed justification for why that screw driver was needed. H.R. could send a guy to New York City for one night, spend $1,000 on a hotel for that one night, a $125 dinner and explain that receipts were not needed because it was an official H.R. function, and H.R. function was all the justificiation needed. In H.R., a simple file clerk made at least $13/hour. Now, compare that with the above mentioned A+ tech and remember that it doesn't take any education at all to be a file clerk.

When I gave my exit interview, I pointed out that I did the expense reports for both H.R. and IT. I said that the only thing I'm sad that I will miss is when someone in IT gets pissed off enough at their treatment as the red headed step child and manages to use a simple virus to completely destroy this company, or repairs your work laptops and uses what's on there to get you all fired.

I've been looking at job ads. My wife been trying to get me into a tech support job. I've been showing her the job ads and the pay for tech support jobs and telling her that the pay is almost poverty and job requires dealing with complete and total morons who are too stupid to be using a computer. Companies need the computer and network to function in order to make them money, but they don't want to pay people the money that technicans are actually worth to keep the system up and running.
 
2012-06-09 11:57:23 PM
Data Center: It's networking's fault
Network: It's voice's fault.
Voice: Email was down.
Deskside: It's summer. Several techs are on vacation.
Service Desk: Please hold.
 
2012-06-09 11:57:30 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.


Is that just an IBM culture thing? We've had a bunch of contractors from there recently that have been awfully pissy. It's not that they're bad at their job, they're just unpleasant to work with. At least they're not inept, like Infosys...
 
2012-06-09 11:58:08 PM

Fista-Phobia: Yeah. Service Desk ass reaming followed by some Lean Six Sigma project managers with capes.


I call them "Mighty Mouse"
 
2012-06-09 11:58:55 PM
Somewhere, right this moment, Grover Norquist is reading this article and furiously masturbating.
 
2012-06-09 11:59:41 PM
Oh what I wouldn't give to be a fly on a wall in that situation...

As someone said earlier. Paper, pencil, calculator? OMG MATH AND WRITING R HARD!

In all seriousness, I've worked in IT for both government and private sector. In many places, the IT staff is very undervalued and often shoved aside. But, oh boy! When something breaks they are breaking down doors to find someone to fix it.

Legacy software and systems are by far the worst to deal with in terms of their users. Especially when you have to explain to them that the only machine to run a certain system has a fried motherboard that you can't get a replacement for and the software won't run on a newer system. And they were told months ago, they should probably migrate to a newer version on newer equipment because a failure was eminent. Gotta love it.
 
2012-06-10 12:01:41 AM

the_chief: The Carl's Jr. drive-thru screen had a "found new hardware wizard" dialog on it yesterday.


...and I see a JavaScript Error about 1/3 of the time. I'm sure we'd be surprised how many displays and kiosks simply run flash/browser content... but theirs is clearly implemented badly.

But yeah - I'm afraid my company's IT dept is in the same boat. Used to be almost aggressive with infrastructure and doing internal custom development... but we've lost a few good guys without even replacing their positions, and it feels like we're a major failure away from the whole department walking away. We already had a problem with a phone switch that was maintenance-related, and what we paid in consulting costs and SLA penalties for that single event would have easily kept our telephony engineer in-house for at least a year.
 
2012-06-10 12:06:29 AM
"Thank you for calling Jefferson County, my name Peggy."
They just need to outsource more. Yeah, thats the ticket!
 
2012-06-10 12:06:32 AM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.

Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.


We could have gone without mentioning SAP.

*eye twitch*

I was the SAP biatch at my old job. Big Fortune 500 pharmaceutical company. Always sent to troubleshoot out of team. Most of the time, it was an ID10T error on the part of the users, but oh gawd, when something was farked up on the other side of things, was it ever. Then trying to run that over FDA approved Windows builds that weren't always "standard" made things even worse at times when you got into R&D areas.
 
2012-06-10 12:06:37 AM
This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.
 
2012-06-10 12:06:48 AM
There are danger in signing maintenance contracts without having IT check it out first.

They you might need... A Contract-Killer


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-10 12:07:10 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was


Hell, some, nay nearly all of us are still part of the problem even after we got out.
 
2012-06-10 12:08:18 AM
Dammit... I thought the link got embedded right.

A Contract-Killer
 
2012-06-10 12:10:13 AM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: lenfromak: Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.

Agreed. You can make SAP sing and dance if you know how, but it isn't software that you can "walk through" and figure it out without training.

Ugh SAP and I have a very tenuous relationship right now. The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.



I was the only person in the whole department I worked in (outside of the finance dept) that knew how to pull SAP reports. They thought I was a god. Lucky for me the person who had vacated the position set me up with all of her customized queries.
 
2012-06-10 12:10:47 AM

phoxxy: Oh what I wouldn't give to be a fly on a wall in that situation...

As someone said earlier. Paper, pencil, calculator? OMG MATH AND WRITING R HARD!

In all seriousness, I've worked in IT for both government and private sector. In many places, the IT staff is very undervalued and often shoved aside. But, oh boy! When something breaks they are breaking down doors to find someone to fix it.

Legacy software and systems are by far the worst to deal with in terms of their users. Especially when you have to explain to them that the only machine to run a certain system has a fried motherboard that you can't get a replacement for and the software won't run on a newer system. And they were told months ago, they should probably migrate to a newer version on newer equipment because a failure was eminent. Gotta love it.


I worked industrial manufacturing process control for years. Nothing better than gettig capital improvement after capital improvement denied and then getting a phone call that we're losing 50,000$/hour thanks to a broken sensor that hasn't been manufactured since 1985. Now that control systems have begun integration with business systems the line between engineering and IT have blurred. Who's my boss- Director of Engineering or the CIO? At least I know I can always get a job.
 
2012-06-10 12:12:41 AM

Ray_Peranus: Is the power cord plugged in?


But then where will I plug in the coffee maker?
 
2012-06-10 12:12:52 AM
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
 
2012-06-10 12:14:07 AM

Terrydatroll: Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county. Along with the successful business goes tax revenue.


No because they got suckered by big bankers to purchase worthless bonds from JP Morgan to 'invest' in to pay off their debt. The racial makeup for the those pushed that choice were mostly white republicans that bought into the investment guys scam from JP Morgan. There's plenty of blame to go around on all sides of the race issue there. The racial makeup of JP Morgan---who is truly at the heart of the issue was never a problem.
 
2012-06-10 12:14:22 AM
So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?
 
2012-06-10 12:18:43 AM

teto85: Yep. Get new servers and hire the old IT staff as contractors at an increased rate and prove again how stupid you are. Most of the companies and organizations I have worked in have learned the hard way that "If IT ain't happy, nobody ain't happy."


you left out the part where they hire their brother's wife's consulting firm. who hires the ex-employees and takes a huge cut for the family.
 
2012-06-10 12:19:30 AM

Mr.Tangent: Ray_Peranus: Is the power cord plugged in?

But then where will I plug in the coffee maker?


Coffee maker? There's a Starbucks across the street.
 
2012-06-10 12:20:03 AM

leadmetal: So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?


Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.
 
2012-06-10 12:21:11 AM
I find their drop-down header that follows you as you scroll down their web page creepy. Is everything about Alabama that creepy?
 
2012-06-10 12:21:50 AM

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


I don't think that is true. Corporations have been cutting "non-essential" positions for years and it is now coming back to bite them in the ass with lowered productivity. Corps seem to think the answer is always downsizing and dumping the extra work on the rest of the team. Can't do it forever.
 
2012-06-10 12:23:02 AM

Weaver95: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure. you can only outsource so much before things fall apart. and lemme tell ya - SAP is a right bastard if you don't maintain it.


What I don't get is why they even have there own Finance server or much past a network and some basic file/print servers and minimal storage. Articles like these are relatively common which leads me to believe most counties run their own systems. The costs to maintain are in most cases considerably higher than if they outsourced, maybe not to a private group but a consolidated state run facility.

Do you think there is a finance server in the back of every Wal-Mart and other store you walk into? There maybe something in the back so handle local activity but most of the major work is done in consolidated sites. Less hardware, less software, and less staffing, therefore you can run better hardware and hopefully better staffing.
 
2012-06-10 12:23:10 AM

Ray_Peranus: Mr.Tangent: Ray_Peranus: Is the power cord plugged in?

But then where will I plug in the coffee maker?

Coffee maker? There's a Starbucks across the street.


and risk exposure to the sun?
 
2012-06-10 12:24:02 AM

Loren: leadmetal: So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?

Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


The problem with the outsourcing is that it usually goes to someone who has friends in government so it works out the same or worse.
 
2012-06-10 12:25:50 AM

wildcardjack: There are danger in signing maintenance contracts without having IT check it out first.

They you might need... A Contract-Killer


[3.bp.blogspot.com image 635x800]


YES... LOVE BOFH. :P

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I worked industrial manufacturing process control for years. Nothing better than gettig capital improvement after capital improvement denied and then getting a phone call that we're losing 50,000$/hour thanks to a broken sensor that hasn't been manufactured since 1985. Now that control systems have begun integration with business systems the line between engineering and IT have blurred. Who's my boss- Director of Engineering or the CIO? At least I know I can always get a job.


I hear ya. Been there, done that.

I went into business for myself. It's not glamorous. I just got tired of the corporate bullshiat.
 
2012-06-10 12:28:32 AM

optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.


hahaha, ow, my brain.
 
2012-06-10 12:30:58 AM

Lt_Ryan: Weaver95: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

what I don't get is why organizations don't maintain their infrastructure. you can only outsource so much before things fall apart. and lemme tell ya - SAP is a right bastard if you don't maintain it.

What I don't get is why they even have there own Finance server or much past a network and some basic file/print servers and minimal storage. Articles like these are relatively common which leads me to believe most counties run their own systems. The costs to maintain are in most cases considerably higher than if they outsourced, maybe not to a private group but a consolidated state run facility.

Do you think there is a finance server in the back of every Wal-Mart and other store you walk into? There maybe something in the back so handle local activity but most of the major work is done in consolidated sites. Less hardware, less software, and less staffing, therefore you can run better hardware and hopefully better staffing.


this this and more this
it is all about kick backs to family and friends
most of county business should be rolled into state or city and fire all the rest of those tards

/cook county in illinois? what a waste of sperm
 
2012-06-10 12:31:55 AM

leadmetal: Loren: leadmetal: So, what competitor is going to take the business away from this county government?

None.

Who is going to lose their job?

Nobody.

Who is going to pay for this?

The taxpayers.

So why should they care?

Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.

The problem with the outsourcing is that it usually goes to someone who has friends in government so it works out the same or worse.


That, and there's a lack of consistency as well at times. I've worked some contract jobs for my business and I can tell you when I've worked on a whole network of systems that has the earmarks of several different policies and deployment that were but into place by different firms. Some logical, some that made you go "WTF were they thinking?". Your large companies are going to have both in-house and contracted labor for their IT department so there is bound to be IT policies in place that direct how software/hardware is deployed and maintained. But I've seen from experience when you've had smaller government and smaller businesses end up in a mess because there was no consistency with their systems. An absolute mess.
 
2012-06-10 12:34:08 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Well, the system's back online as of Friday. Tune in again Monday for more of The Great Alabama Server Meltdown.


If this county was smart, they would sell t-shirts celebrating the occasion. They could even have a festival for it.
The Great Alabama Server Meltdown 2012
 
2012-06-10 12:34:10 AM

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


thank you. had a local republican party leader tell me a bond extension was the same as a tax. and that despite it being needed NO NEW TAXES. that was before and after admitting that the money was going to a worthy cause. one the community would benefit from.

fortunately more of us voted to continue the bond than voted for short term gain.
 
2012-06-10 12:34:53 AM
As a computer tech for a public school system, I'm getting a kick out of these replies....

Our district has $20 million+ saved up and we have a network consisting of 6,000+ devices, and 5 Techs counting the Tech Coordinator and the Sys Admin. So essentially 3 techs for twelve fairly large campuses. The superintendent however, refuses to have a computer in his office because he doesn't understand it and thinks IT is absolutely worthless, but throws an absolute shiat fit when we can't inventory, load apps, and deploy 600 ipads, 2 days after delivery. Then throws an even bigger shiat fit once they are deployed because he didn't listen when he was told there was serious infrastructure worked that needed to be done to the wireless to support said ipads. Not sure if my job will be there next school year, but at this point i'm so fed up I don't really care.
 
2012-06-10 12:35:13 AM
I live and work just a couple of miles outside the Jeffco line. I love election season on Birmingham media; it's a total circle jerk of idiocy and fiddling while Rome Burns. A candidate for the School board turned out to have a hugely falsified resume and was a high school dropout. He still got like 100 votes after dropping out of the race in disgrace. The audio is funny, especially when he talks about how he should be "strutinized or strutinated"

A local radio show uses him occasionally as a political commentator but he's the only one who doesn't seem to be in on the joke.

Jefferson County, AL is a shining example of southern politics. When money runs tight, they cut law enforcement and public facing services first. But hey, anyone interested in being the new Jeffco CFO?
 
2012-06-10 12:36:06 AM

Lt_Ryan:
Do you think there is a finance server in the back of every Wal-Mart and other store you walk into? There maybe something in the back so handle local activity but most of the major work is done in consolidated sites. Less hardware, less software, and less staffing, therefore you can run better hardware and hopefully better staffing.


well...the issue with government sites is that there are frequently issues with local and state politics that get in the way of a consolidated IT infrastructure. that plus sheer ignorance of IT issues from most high level government people can easily translate into multiple redundant and inefficient networks as well as some rather confused sources of data. the shiny presentation from the nice company that just donated a couple hundred grand to some senator's campaign is probably gonna just get tossed into the mix without much concern for the long term consequences for the folks who have to maintain and run it.

the problem with private networks is that again - you've got a corporate culture that's focused on THIS quarter's earning statements. the IT folks aren't 'adding value' to the corporate bottom line. they're a 'cost center', not a profit center. And in the MBA/accountant universe - you don't improve cost centers, you cut them down to the bone and run bare minimum until you find a way to get rid of them completely. Hence the trend to outsource as much of your core IT functions as humanly possible, regardless of the consequences of said actions. we can sit here and discuss the pros and cons of that thinking all night long, but at the end of the day until the corporate culture of 'faster/cheaper/outsource more' goes away we're going to see more and more IT jobs bleed out overseas.
 
2012-06-10 12:36:11 AM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?


GAT_00: Wait, so government is the problem unless it's your solution?
 
2012-06-10 12:37:37 AM

Curious: Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.

thank you. had a local republican party leader tell me a bond extension was the same as a tax. and that despite it being needed NO NEW TAXES. that was before and after admitting that the money was going to a worthy cause. one the community would benefit from.

fortunately more of us voted to continue the bond than voted for short term gain.


We had the same thing happen here. We had a referendum on it. The schools were taking a hit anyway (thanks Walker) but people actually believed their property taxes were going to be raised if they voted yes. I told numerous people that no, your taxes will not go up if you vote yes. The good side won by 8 votes.
 
2012-06-10 12:38:30 AM

xanadian: optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.

WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.

O.o

Needless to say, everyone has either XP or Win 7 now.

I love being able to drive the technological bus where I work...


Preach on my brother, I run the wireless assest for a large company and most of the time I just need to get the execs on a demo of the product and then my SR VP of IT is forced into buying it because those guys demand the product since they loved it so much. That's pretty much how I sell everything and the only way I can drag our sorry out of date company into the 21st century.

If you need anything done try to link it to an iPad and an executive and you will have money flowing before you get back to your desk. They are like moths to a flame.
 
2012-06-10 12:39:19 AM
29.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-06-10 12:41:03 AM

kombat_unit: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

GAT_00: Wait, so government is the problem unless it's your solution?


Ok, did cman out himself as kombat unit?
 
2012-06-10 12:42:03 AM
Speaking as someone who worked in IT, was laid off for budgetary reasons, and then had their old company's IT infrastructure crash when they weren't there to maintain in it, I just have to say "Hahahahahahahahahahaha."

I worked for a company that ran the recording systems in court rooms around the country. Got laid off because an outside company convinced the senile old guy running the company they would be a cheaper and more reliable IT solution than I was (even though most of my time was spent fixing stuff they screwed up). Apparently a few weeks after I was let go the whole damn network crashed and the outside company wouldn't even answer phone calls for a few days. After they had been fired and my former company had gone through a few other IT people I went to lunch with some of my old friends that worked there in other departments. It seemed my old manager heard they were having lunch with me and told them to try to get me back. Fark you! I'm gone and have since realized what utter and complete shiat working in IT is.

I'm a nursing student now. Even if all I do is change old people diapers all day long, there's still less shiat than working in IT.
 
2012-06-10 12:43:32 AM
Taking after fark, are they?

www.inquisitr.com
 
2012-06-10 12:44:04 AM

meteorite: Speaking as someone who worked in IT, was laid off for budgetary reasons, and then had their old company's IT infrastructure crash when they weren't there to maintain in it, I just have to say "Hahahahahahahahahahaha."

I worked for a company that ran the recording systems in court rooms around the country. Got laid off because an outside company convinced the senile old guy running the company they would be a cheaper and more reliable IT solution than I was (even though most of my time was spent fixing stuff they screwed up). Apparently a few weeks after I was let go the whole damn network crashed and the outside company wouldn't even answer phone calls for a few days. After they had been fired and my former company had gone through a few other IT people I went to lunch with some of my old friends that worked there in other departments. It seemed my old manager heard they were having lunch with me and told them to try to get me back. Fark you! I'm gone and have since realized what utter and complete shiat working in IT is.

I'm a nursing student now. Even if all I do is change old people diapers all day long, there's still less shiat than working in IT.


Can't go wrong in healthcare if you can handle it. Nurses rarely get downsized.
 
2012-06-10 12:45:09 AM

LasersHurt: You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.


my little coding shop has gone through 7 good engineers in the last couple years, out of a total of 10 people. recently our best engineer walked out the door. management wont give any raises and constantly complains and changes directions, its a psychotic place to work. they have no clue how much knowledge they continually let walk out the door. and then they wonder why projects dont get finished. the situation in the article is typical i think of too many organizations. those who dont have a grasp on the reality of IT tend to discount it when everything is going smoothly and they can click their buttons and the machines are humming. then they wonder, gee we spend a bunch on these geeks.. we could save a bunch of money with fewer of them.. i mean geez seems like they just spend all their time on Fark anyway.. and then something goes wrong, and the guys who could probably troubleshoot the problem and fix it right away are'nt there, and the poor saps that are, but dont have the particular knowledge, have to figure things out from scratch, which takes too much time and effort.

// sorry for the ramble.. this article touched a nerve.
 
2012-06-10 12:45:42 AM
When government cutbacks are needed, they are usually delayed until after the last minute. When they do happen, the most critical and necessary things are usually the first to go rather than the reelect-elected-official-Bob-waste-of-time-and-money-boondoggle projects that nobody ever wanted or needed and are almost always marked as do-not-touch.
 
2012-06-10 12:46:42 AM

Benjamin Orr: I guess somebody didn't do the needful


I guess they found few problems.
 
2012-06-10 12:47:11 AM

Weaver95: the problem with private networks is that again - you've got a corporate culture that's focused on THIS quarter's earning statements. the IT folks aren't 'adding value' to the corporate bottom line. they're a 'cost center', not a profit center. And in the MBA/accountant universe - you don't improve cost centers, you cut them down to the bone and run bare minimum until you find a way to get rid of them completely. Hence the trend to outsource as much of your core IT functions as humanly possible, regardless of the consequences of said actions. we can sit here and discuss the pros and cons of that thinking all night long, but at the end of the day until the corporate culture of 'faster/cheaper/outsource more' goes away we're going to see more and more IT jobs bleed out overseas.


This. I guess the onsite techs are the MacLoed of American IT.
 
2012-06-10 12:47:11 AM

Sabyen91: kombat_unit: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

GAT_00: Wait, so government is the problem unless it's your solution?

Ok, did cman out himself as kombat unit?


Pfft. Everyone knows my alts are GAT_00 and Bathia_Mapes
 
2012-06-10 12:47:56 AM

Weaver95: for a second there, I thought this was a story about my now former employer....

Personally, I wish 'em the best of luck but they're not reinvesting in their infrastructure and laying off people with years of experience, and those of us who DIDN'T get laid off are retiring fast as they can.


Its all of our former employers.
 
2012-06-10 12:47:59 AM

rassleholic: When government cutbacks are needed, they are usually delayed until after the last minute. When they do happen, the most critical and necessary things are usually the first to go rather than the reelect-elected-official-Bob-waste-of-time-and-money-boondoggle projects that nobody ever wanted or needed and are almost always marked as do-not-touch.


That happens with the defense budget, for sure.
 
2012-06-10 12:48:10 AM

meteorite: I'm a nursing student now. Even if all I do is change old people diapers all day long, there's still less shiat than working in IT.


This. This. A thousand times this.
 
2012-06-10 12:48:28 AM

Sabyen91: Can't go wrong in healthcare if you can handle it. Nurses rarely get downsized.


boingboing.net
 
2012-06-10 12:48:45 AM

cman: Sabyen91: kombat_unit: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

GAT_00: Wait, so government is the problem unless it's your solution?

Ok, did cman out himself as kombat unit?

Pfft. Everyone knows my alts are GAT_00 and Bathia_Mapes


Oh, hell, I know you aren't Bathia, you would be swinging a bigger stick.
 
2012-06-10 12:49:05 AM
Business side: What do we pay IT for? They're a waste of money
IT: Ok, bye
Business side: where'd my internet go? I can't find my internet anymore? Why isn't this web project done?

Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.
 
2012-06-10 12:49:20 AM

optikeye: Sabyen91: Can't go wrong in healthcare if you can handle it. Nurses rarely get downsized.

[boingboing.net image 344x448]


I stand corrected. :)
 
2012-06-10 12:49:34 AM

zzrhardy: Fiction Fan: Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county

[i437.photobucket.com image 538x362]">

"Just so ya know, Jefferson County be in financial trouble cus da people and businesses who actually make money is movin out of JC and gots been fo years cus increasin population of African American influence in da county - aww yea foo"

Not sure if that helps, it was the first eubonics translator page on google.


I prefer this:
i50.tinypic.com

Joost su ya knoo, Jeffffersun Cuoonty be-a in feenunciel truooble-a coos da peuple-a und booseenesses vhu ectooelly meke-a muney is mufeen oooot ooff JC und guts beee fu yeers coos increeseen pupooleshun ooff Effreecun Emereecun infflooence-a in da cuoonty - evv yea fuu
 
2012-06-10 12:50:13 AM
Oh god, this sound like my employer.

5 years ago, with much fanfare, we imported on a new CEO from the US. His first week on the job he says, and this is a direct quote:

"I don't understand why we need an IT department when the Staples across the street has a service counter?"

Second week on the job, he lays off 25% of the IT workforce. Actually, he laid off the entire workforce, but a few of the department heads who understood what a mind-numbingly stupid idea this was, managed to get most of us transferred into their units. As of two years ago, annual IT spending dropped to $0. Cue several key server and network failures.

"Why do we need to fix this? Let's just go back to pencil and paper."

As of this week, they have just signed an outsourcing agreement that will cost them 2.5x what they used to pay to run everything in-house. Absolute farking morons.
 
2012-06-10 12:50:57 AM
Never ever lay off the DBA before you quit paying the electrical bill. He's more important than electricity in a modern office.
 
2012-06-10 12:53:49 AM

Ika7734: Business side: What do we pay IT for? They're a waste of money
IT: Ok, bye
Business side: where'd my internet go? I can't find my internet anymore? Why isn't this web project done?

Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


It goes beyond that. The business side (office) is looked at as the redheaded step-child of production by corporate and not all that important because they are not a direct cost (similar to IT). Upper management, whether governmental or corporate is shortsighted and usually the least informed and most obstinate people to grace the earth.

/Replace all upper management with middle management drones and things will get better.
 
2012-06-10 12:54:22 AM
Um, to be blunt, the last time Alabama knew what a server was, it said "massa" and could cook the shiat out of some grits.
 
2012-06-10 12:55:07 AM

Ika7734: Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


I'm really grateful my former employer realized this and we were able to work together to get things done, not so grateful for the pillaging of the Canadian side of the business to save a few bucks on the US side but at least most of my time there was pleasent.

Another former IT worker going back to school to train in something more useful.
 
2012-06-10 12:55:17 AM

Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.
 
2012-06-10 12:55:38 AM
GAT_00 proving once again that so much stupid can be crammed into such a small user name. It's amazing to watch threads where you come into them thinking you are going to speak for the masses and you end up turned around and beaten into the ground for such idiotic things. I bet you sit at your desk thinking, "man this is awesome I bet a lot of people will agree with me this should be good," and then hit the submit button with a nice smile on your face. I would personally suggest possibly not posting so much.
 
2012-06-10 12:55:59 AM

Sabyen91: meteorite: Speaking as someone who worked in IT, was laid off for budgetary reasons, and then had their old company's IT infrastructure crash when they weren't there to maintain in it, I just have to say "Hahahahahahahahahahaha."

I worked for a company that ran the recording systems in court rooms around the country. Got laid off because an outside company convinced the senile old guy running the company they would be a cheaper and more reliable IT solution than I was (even though most of my time was spent fixing stuff they screwed up). Apparently a few weeks after I was let go the whole damn network crashed and the outside company wouldn't even answer phone calls for a few days. After they had been fired and my former company had gone through a few other IT people I went to lunch with some of my old friends that worked there in other departments. It seemed my old manager heard they were having lunch with me and told them to try to get me back. Fark you! I'm gone and have since realized what utter and complete shiat working in IT is.

I'm a nursing student now. Even if all I do is change old people diapers all day long, there's still less shiat than working in IT.

Can't go wrong in healthcare if you can handle it. Nurses rarely get downsized.



LOL! I am guessing those Phillipino nurse they are importing in Texas don't work dirt cheap.
 
2012-06-10 12:56:25 AM
Oh and:

County Manager Tony Petelos said all of the servers that run the SAP program have outlived their useful life, and of the 16 servers in the Information Technology Department, only one has any life left

then later

Wayne Cree, director of information technology, has said his department lost approximately 30 budgeted positions in the past year because of layoffs

2 people per server. Anyone else think this department is just incompetent? Maybe the cutbacks will cause them to find some decent tallent rather than throw "average" talent at large numbers at the problem.
 
2012-06-10 12:56:27 AM

optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.


This.

/I don't usually this. Be gentle.
 
2012-06-10 12:57:33 AM

rohar: Never ever lay off the DBA before you quit paying the electrical bill. He's more important than electricity in a modern office.


I always wonder what would happen if we could get IT staff to organize on a national level. It would be an entity that effectively controls both the government and corporate worlds.
 
2012-06-10 12:57:46 AM

HempHead: LOL! I am guessing those Phillipino nurse they are importing in Texas don't work dirt cheap.


I am nowhere near Texas so YMMV.
 
2012-06-10 12:57:48 AM
It's human nature, People don't miss things until they fail.

It makes me wonder if there have been a few major Y2K snags 12 years ago maybe people would take their computer systems more seriously .
 
2012-06-10 12:58:51 AM

ScreamingHangover: rohar: Never ever lay off the DBA before you quit paying the electrical bill. He's more important than electricity in a modern office.

I always wonder what would happen if we could get IT staff to organize on a national level. It would be an entity that effectively controls both the government and corporate worlds.


That would be the douchiest union EVER!

/Just playing on the stereotype of IT people. :)
 
2012-06-10 12:58:58 AM

ScreamingHangover: rohar: Never ever lay off the DBA before you quit paying the electrical bill. He's more important than electricity in a modern office.

I always wonder what would happen if we could get IT staff to organize on a national level. It would be an entity that effectively controls both the government and corporate worlds.


I didn't say you sysadmins, pixle pushers and code monkeys were important. Mind your place lowling.
 
2012-06-10 01:01:06 AM

tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?


Obligatory:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-06-10 01:03:21 AM

xanadian: optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.

WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.


Heck, that's nothing. I did some work at a client site last year and they were still using a VAX. In 2011. A frickin' VAX.
 
2012-06-10 01:03:41 AM

Fecal Conservative: zzrhardy: Fiction Fan: Just so you know, Jefferson County is in financial trouble because the people and businesses who actually make money are moving out of JC and have been for years because increasing population of African American influence in the county

[i437.photobucket.com image 538x362]">

"Just so ya know, Jefferson County be in financial trouble cus da people and businesses who actually make money is movin out of JC and gots been fo years cus increasin population of African American influence in da county - aww yea foo"

Not sure if that helps, it was the first eubonics translator page on google.

I prefer this:
[i50.tinypic.com image 460x276]

Joost su ya knoo, Jeffffersun Cuoonty be-a in feenunciel truooble-a coos da peuple-a und booseenesses vhu ectooelly meke-a muney is mufeen oooot ooff JC und guts beee fu yeers coos increeseen pupooleshun ooff Effreecun Emereecun infflooence-a in da cuoonty - evv yea fuu


www.avitable.com

Just so's ya' know, Jefferson County be in financial trouble cuz' de sucka's and businesses who actually make bre'd are movin' out uh JC and gots' been fo' years cuz' increasin' populashun uh African American influence in de county. Slap mah fro!
 
2012-06-10 01:04:15 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency.

I find that hard to believe. If it's inefficient everywhere, why are you incapable of improving anything?

If you put it in that way, then the only inefficiencies that I could improve would be so small that they would not be worth my time of even typing them out.


Efficiency List for cman:

HOW TO: Move Barrels of Waste
 
2012-06-10 01:04:51 AM

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


of course, when you just pay blindly to the gov't and assume they will do what is best, they just do what anybody else with free money does and waste it w/o appreciating it, then ask for more.

so there is a balance, and i think the best we can do is biatch about taxes and the gov't attempt to prove they know what they are doing with the peoples' money. they almost never keep up with their end. this would be just another example.
 
2012-06-10 01:06:12 AM

rohar: Wayne Cree, director of information technology, has said his department lost approximately 30 budgeted positions in the past year because of layoffs

2 people per server. Anyone else think this department is just incompetent? Maybe the cutbacks will cause them to find some decent tallent rather than throw "average" talent at large numbers at the problem.


That wasn't the entire job for that dept..those people did desktop support for agencies for the entire county. It wasn't 30 people watching the servers...but the entire desktop to server support staff. I dunno but I bet the desktop support staff where lowly paid ITT TECH grads that 'knew computers' making 20k a year and the management thought "hey, we get rid of the big guys and let helpdesk staff take care of the servers"...plus helpdesk support.
Happens everyday in corporations too, not just gov.
 
2012-06-10 01:06:58 AM

Sabyen91: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

I don't think that is true. Corporations have been cutting "non-essential" positions for years and it is now coming back to bite them in the ass with lowered productivity. Corps seem to think the answer is always downsizing and dumping the extra work on the rest of the team. Can't do it forever.


I think part of the reason this keeps happening is that most upper management people aren't there for the long haul. I've seen that a number of times in my career. Some new executive comes in, does everything to make this year's, or even this quarter's numbers look good. Many of the things done have terrible long term implications, but they don't care because they know damn well they won't be around to deal with the fallout. Usually firing a bunch of your top talent to lower wage/salary/benefits expense is one of the first things these people do to make it look like they are operating more "efficiently."
 
2012-06-10 01:08:54 AM

Sabyen91: HempHead: LOL! I am guessing those Phillipino nurse they are importing in Texas don't work dirt cheap.

I am nowhere near Texas so YMMV.


I moved to dallas a few years ago because of the job I got offered and I would suggest not coming here. Sure a lot of things are opening up, mostly because the TX legislators are bought and paid for so they hand out money left and right, but it's still a hell hole. The heat is unbearable, more and more people are moving here so rush hour is a full hour of dodge the moron idiot who is in the left lane holding up traffic and to dumb to move over, rent or house prices are back rising again and everyone at every turn is trying to rip you off or make money off of you. I have yet to find a decent mechanic or personally anybody relating to cars who can actually do a decent job. Texas's motto should be, "Eh, so we half as$ed it, pay us now and enjoy the heat." If I didn't have such a sweet gig of a job I would of left this place yesterday.
 
2012-06-10 01:09:54 AM

Shaggy_C: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: The fun part is dealing with the high priced designers/programmers commissioning the new system. A simple thing like a translation of XML messages from the plant floor takes months to argue through.

Is that just an IBM culture thing? We've had a bunch of contractors from there recently that have been awfully pissy. It's not that they're bad at their job, they're just unpleasant to work with. At least they're not inept, like Infosys...


Perhaps in part. Perhaps it's also that IBM is systematically gutting the first-world workforce.
 
2012-06-10 01:10:06 AM

optikeye: rohar: Wayne Cree, director of information technology, has said his department lost approximately 30 budgeted positions in the past year because of layoffs

2 people per server. Anyone else think this department is just incompetent? Maybe the cutbacks will cause them to find some decent tallent rather than throw "average" talent at large numbers at the problem.

That wasn't the entire job for that dept..those people did desktop support for agencies for the entire county. It wasn't 30 people watching the servers...but the entire desktop to server support staff. I dunno but I bet the desktop support staff where lowly paid ITT TECH grads that 'knew computers' making 20k a year and the management thought "hey, we get rid of the big guys and let helpdesk staff take care of the servers"...plus helpdesk support.
Happens everyday in corporations too, not just gov.


My team is running 20 "servers" per employee. I put server in quotes because many of them are multiple boxes behind load balancers. If we include ALL the employees of the company from HR to helpdesk we're still at about 10 servers per employee.

Of course, we wouldn't make the mistake of firing the DBA before we turned the lights out for the last time.
 
2012-06-10 01:10:21 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Sabyen91: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

I don't think that is true. Corporations have been cutting "non-essential" positions for years and it is now coming back to bite them in the ass with lowered productivity. Corps seem to think the answer is always downsizing and dumping the extra work on the rest of the team. Can't do it forever.

I think part of the reason this keeps happening is that most upper management people aren't there for the long haul. I've seen that a number of times in my career. Some new executive comes in, does everything to make this year's, or even this quarter's numbers look good. Many of the things done have terrible long term implications, but they don't care because they know damn well they won't be around to deal with the fallout. Usually firing a bunch of your top talent to lower wage/salary/benefits expense is one of the first things these people do to make it look like they are operating more "efficiently."


Oh, jeez, do I agree. Every time a new Supervisor takes a position the shiat gets deeper. First, they want to make a splash even if things are going swimmingly. Pointless regulations and processes blown up for no reason at all. I didn't have a true boss for 4 months and it was farking liberating. The red tape and pointless bullshiat was gone.
 
2012-06-10 01:12:56 AM

TheGhostofFarkPast: Sabyen91: HempHead: LOL! I am guessing those Phillipino nurse they are importing in Texas don't work dirt cheap.

I am nowhere near Texas so YMMV.

I moved to dallas a few years ago because of the job I got offered and I would suggest not coming here. Sure a lot of things are opening up, mostly because the TX legislators are bought and paid for so they hand out money left and right, but it's still a hell hole. The heat is unbearable, more and more people are moving here so rush hour is a full hour of dodge the moron idiot who is in the left lane holding up traffic and to dumb to move over, rent or house prices are back rising again and everyone at every turn is trying to rip you off or make money off of you. I have yet to find a decent mechanic or personally anybody relating to cars who can actually do a decent job. Texas's motto should be, "Eh, so we half as$ed it, pay us now and enjoy the heat." If I didn't have such a sweet gig of a job I would of left this place yesterday.


I avoid Texas but I drove semi so I couldn't avoid it totally. The thing that annoyed me was the slightest drizzle was treated like the blizzard of the century. Thanks, Houston.

/Plus my ex-sister in law is from Waco. WACO!
 
2012-06-10 01:13:46 AM

mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.


Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.
 
2012-06-10 01:15:28 AM

optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.


Every time I've had to call the help desk where I work because something went glitchy, I make sure to thank the IT guy. The most recent time: got a 2nd monitor to help with my work, even though my desk is really, really small - and after the install, it kept blacking out and flickering non-stop. He stopped by, swapped the vid card, and now it's good as gold. Thank you IT guy.

The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp. We're just lowly production staff though, we KNOW we need this shiat to work right.
 
2012-06-10 01:18:40 AM
Wow, some of yerall's war stories sound awful!

I'm glad to say that our IT dept., is pretty solid. The director listens to our recommendations and backs us up when we tell other departments they need to invest in infrastructure. I wish we had departmental IT budgets, though. As it is, they each determine what they want to buy, and generally speaking they could be a little more forward thinking.

I don't think 4 new iPads is a good investment when your staff is working on computers purchased in 2004...

people and their farkles...

*sigh*
 
2012-06-10 01:19:12 AM

Sabyen91: I avoid Texas but I drove semi so I couldn't avoid it totally. The thing that annoyed me was the slightest drizzle was treated like the blizzard of the century.


Would you rather do that or try to drive out in Baltimore or New York?

Had an uncle who used to take runs from central WI to Nevada/California or Oklahoma. He was old school enough that he kept three sets of books, the one for the cops, the one for his boss and the real one. Also old school enough to go 20 hours at a go so he could Nevada early enough to gamble.
 
2012-06-10 01:19:13 AM

Di Atribe: mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.

Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.


He is clearly an anti-safety net and anti-society "conservative". He wants to go Galt but he doesn't have the brain or the balls to do it. Ayn Rand following idiots.
 
2012-06-10 01:20:14 AM

Ken VeryBigLiar: Sabyen91: I avoid Texas but I drove semi so I couldn't avoid it totally. The thing that annoyed me was the slightest drizzle was treated like the blizzard of the century.

Would you rather do that or try to drive out in Baltimore or New York?

Had an uncle who used to take runs from central WI to Nevada/California or Oklahoma. He was old school enough that he kept three sets of books, the one for the cops, the one for his boss and the real one. Also old school enough to go 20 hours at a go so he could Nevada early enough to gamble.


In rain? Yes, I would prefer Baltimore. I never drove in NYC.
 
2012-06-10 01:20:34 AM

suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp


Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.
 
2012-06-10 01:20:43 AM

suziequzie: optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.

Every time I've had to call the help desk where I work because something went glitchy, I make sure to thank the IT guy. The most recent time: got a 2nd monitor to help with my work, even though my desk is really, really small - and after the install, it kept blacking out and flickering non-stop. He stopped by, swapped the vid card, and now it's good as gold. Thank you IT guy.

The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp. We're just lowly production staff though, we KNOW we need this shiat to work right.


You should also treat your facilities people the same way. One thing I was told in my first corporate gig was to never piss those guys off. They are the go to crew you need when things go sideways in the building and if you need help you do not want an angry crew coming to your desk. I do everything I can to help them all out and we dont even issue them phones for work.
 
2012-06-10 01:21:13 AM
a state manager buddy sends me casteville requests regular as clockwork twice daily, seems his servers are running spiffilly, thankfully, for all our sakes.
 
2012-06-10 01:27:56 AM

Di Atribe: mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.

Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.


If I was voted into office, you would be in charge of graphing the power rankings for the NFL teams. If you did well, I might even promote you to the manager of the football pool.
 
2012-06-10 01:28:11 AM

TheGhostofFarkPast: suziequzie: optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.

Every time I've had to call the help desk where I work because something went glitchy, I make sure to thank the IT guy. The most recent time: got a 2nd monitor to help with my work, even though my desk is really, really small - and after the install, it kept blacking out and flickering non-stop. He stopped by, swapped the vid card, and now it's good as gold. Thank you IT guy.

The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp. We're just lowly production staff though, we KNOW we need this shiat to work right.

You should also treat your facilities people the same way. One thing I was told in my first corporate gig was to never piss those guys off. They are the go to crew you need when things go sideways in the building and if you need help you do not want an angry crew coming to your desk. I do everything I can to help them all out and we dont even issue them phones for work.


Oh definitely. Say "Hello" and be nice to the people dumping the garbage/vacuuming or changing the toilet paper in the bathrooms. ESPECIALLY that last one. A fully stocked ladies' room is a happy ladies' room.

Of course, my department is the lowest rung/red-headed-stepchild one in the company. And the sub-dept I'm in is even less than that. I'm sure my bosses see the cleaning lady as providing more value than me.
 
2012-06-10 01:30:52 AM
Looks like Mr. Pony's stack of pink flimsies just made the news.

/Obama, Romney, that guy who thinks Ayn Rand is pron...why can't we just elect Vetinari?
 
2012-06-10 01:35:57 AM

xanadian: optikeye: Geeze, from the comments apparently they where using a 486 for the server---you'd would have think they would have upgraded that in the couple of decades.

WHAT!??

When I first started working at the place I'm at, 7 years ago, they were still using computers that had Pentiums in them. Not Pentium 4, or 3, or 2, or even MMX. PENTIUM. It was running WIndows for Workgroups 3.11.

O.o

Needless to say, everyone has either XP or Win 7 now.

I love being able to drive the technological bus where I work...


When I interned at LA County's Probation Dept. back in 2005, they were still using an updated version of whatever it was that replaced Dbase III. It was slooooooow and couldn't keep track of all kinds of things they needed to track--but they were using it because (at the time) updating all the records to Windows would cost too much.

I did another temp job where I handled a new installation of MSWord (I didn't install it, but I was the first one to really use it) and they offered me a job on the second day because I could make it do all kinds of things besides just type documents. I declined because I didn't want to be the go-to tech gal for an insurance company for the pay they offered, and I could already see where that was going: "Susan, the computer isn't working again! Can you fix it?" "Not for $12.00 an hour I can't."
 
2012-06-10 01:36:18 AM

rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.


Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.
 
2012-06-10 01:36:47 AM

SpiderQueenDemon: Looks like Mr. Pony's stack of pink flimsies just made the news.

/Obama, Romney, that guy who thinks Ayn Rand is pron...why can't we just elect Vetinari?


Well, anybody that helps animals is good in my book.
 
2012-06-10 01:38:58 AM

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.


What makes you think it's a republican county....because it's alabama you assume it's republican? Do some research before you make assumptions and make yourself look stupid. Jefferson county, alabama is actually majority democratic. So, way to go democrats overspending their county into oblivion!
 
2012-06-10 01:42:32 AM

xen0blue: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

What makes you think it's a republican county....because it's alabama you assume it's republican? Do some research before you make assumptions and make yourself look stupid. Jefferson county, alabama is actually majority democratic. So, way to go democrats overspending their county into oblivion!


Yes, Alabama Democrat...totally liberal.
 
2012-06-10 01:43:14 AM

Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.


Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!
 
2012-06-10 01:43:32 AM
 
2012-06-10 01:44:49 AM

rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!


Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.
 
2012-06-10 01:46:12 AM

Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.


What? Never worked for a .com before?
 
2012-06-10 01:50:05 AM

rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?


No, we don't have .coms in WI.
 
2012-06-10 01:56:33 AM

Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.


...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?
 
2012-06-10 02:00:56 AM

rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.

...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?


Oh, I worked for Epic Systems (software company) so the "on me" trick is known to me. The Asynchronous Naming Universal System is ok until it is mixed with oil.
 
2012-06-10 02:01:57 AM

optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.


A good, well trained, properly funded IT department is like the Fire Department... There when shiat needs done, but they should be bored when it's calm.
 
2012-06-10 02:02:07 AM
It's Alabama staunch Republican territory. What did you expect to have happen.
This is what happens when you ask for small government and get it.
 
2012-06-10 02:03:23 AM
a57.foxnews.com

Hey Wisconsin, this is coming for you,
 
2012-06-10 02:05:26 AM

ongbok: [a57.foxnews.com image 640x359]

Hey Wisconsin, this is coming for you,


I could totally see myself vomiting right now.
 
2012-06-10 02:05:58 AM

Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.

...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?

Oh, I worked for Epic Systems (software company) so the "on me" trick is known to me. The Asynchronous Naming Universal System is ok until it is mixed with oil.


If you ever decide to come out west, holler, you might fit in well. Just remember to buy doughnuts or bad things will happen.
 
2012-06-10 02:09:50 AM

GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Where's the direct profit in it?

That's where free market ideology falls apart.


Agreed. In microcosm, it's what's going to happen to the U.S. if Republicans keep getting handed the keys to the offices.
It's going to take a busload of tea partiers tumbling off of a crumbled bridge into a raging river - several times - before those clowns get the message. (Of course, they'd first blame the union labor that built the bridge 80 years ago ...)
 
2012-06-10 02:12:07 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Where's the direct profit in it?

That's where free market ideology falls apart.

Agreed. In microcosm, it's what's going to happen to the U.S. if Republicans keep getting handed the keys to the offices.
It's going to take a busload of tea partiers tumbling off of a crumbled bridge into a raging river - several times - before those clowns get the message. (Of course, they'd first blame the union labor that built the bridge 80 years ago ...)


assets.sbnation.com
 
2012-06-10 02:14:05 AM

Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.

...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?

Oh, I worked for Epic Systems (software company) so the "on me" trick is known to me. The Asynchronous Naming Universal System is ok until it is mixed with oil.


That's not remarkable.
 
2012-06-10 02:15:01 AM

rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.

...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?

Oh, I worked for Epic Systems (software company) so the "on me" trick is known to me. The Asynchronous Naming Universal System is ok until it is mixed with oil.

If you ever decide to come out west, holler, you might fit in well. Just remember to buy doughnuts or bad things will happen.


Will do. I will not use those doughnuts as a ring toss penis game you .com people seem to favor. :)
 
2012-06-10 02:16:04 AM

Gyrfalcon: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Sabyen91: rohar: Babwa Wawa: rohar: suziequzie: The girl next to me keeps giving them candy and donuts for helping her with her comp

Oh doughnuts. Doughnuts are important in our IT organization. It's a rule, FNGs aren't called by their name until they buy the team doughnuts. The rule may as well be written in stone. It's also a rule you can't tell the FNG the rule until day 3.

It's a team building thing.

Still, doughnuts are important. The servers run on them.

Your crew sounds like a bunch of pricks.

Yeah, but when you finally get a name, we take you out to dinner and drinks on us. To live with such assholes!

Pfft, "on us" means you have to eat and drink your meal on our naked bodies. Don't order the bratwurst.

What? Never worked for a .com before?

No, we don't have .coms in WI.

...and yet you know the "dinner on me" trick. Interesting. On server naming conventions, are you familiar with the Asynchronous Naming Universal System?

Oh, I worked for Epic Systems (software company) so the "on me" trick is known to me. The Asynchronous Naming Universal System is ok until it is mixed with oil.

That's not remarkable.


Heretic!
 
2012-06-10 02:19:07 AM

Loren: This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.



How cute, you think reality matches textbooks.
 
2012-06-10 02:21:13 AM

intelligent comment below: Loren: This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


How cute, you think reality matches textbooks.


You need to troll Sabyen, he's probably drunk enough by now to be willing to take you on/out. I'd do it, but I'm going to bed soon.
 
2012-06-10 02:25:01 AM

DeltaPunch: It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well.


Pretty sure that's the idea.

/making profit in broken countries is like shooting fish in an oil barrel. None of those pesky regulations to gum up the works, a desperately pliable workforce that will slave for peanuts, etc. Republican Paradise.
 
2012-06-10 02:29:27 AM

Gyrfalcon: intelligent comment below: Loren: This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


How cute, you think reality matches textbooks.

You need to troll Sabyen, he's probably drunk enough by now to be willing to take you on/out. I'd do it, but I'm going to bed soon.


Maybe...
 
2012-06-10 02:39:44 AM
i0.kym-cdn.com
/because nice things cost money
//morans
 
2012-06-10 02:52:44 AM

rewind2846: [i0.kym-cdn.com image 400x323]
/because nice things cost money
//morans


Hey, we could watch the National Geographic channel to see how Republican ideals work. Hunter/gatherer societies have their pluses.
 
2012-06-10 03:07:42 AM

Terrydatroll: derp


OK, looking over my favorites list: "Douchebag who uses "Democrat" as an adjective." "Right-wing schitthead." "'Holy fnck you're an idiot.' - Nina_Hartley's_Ass."

Too bad Terry doesn't belong in this company. He's not even trying.

*PLONK*
 
2012-06-10 03:11:07 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Terrydatroll: derp

OK, looking over my favorites list: "Douchebag who uses "Democrat" as an adjective." "Right-wing schitthead." "'Holy fnck you're an idiot.' - Nina_Hartley's_Ass."

Too bad Terry doesn't belong in this company. He's not even trying.

*PLONK*


I think he might not like blah people.
 
2012-06-10 03:12:40 AM
Unless for paid for Shiat hit the Fan coverage, we'll get to it when we can.

/I.T Guy
 
2012-06-10 03:14:04 AM
Starve the Beast is working perfectly. America should end up resembling the Warsaw ghetto in about 5 years.
 
2012-06-10 03:24:54 AM

Superjew: DeltaPunch: It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well.

Pretty sure that's the idea.

/making profit in broken countries is like shooting fish in an oil barrel. None of those pesky regulations to gum up the works, a desperately pliable workforce that will slave for peanuts, etc. Republican Paradise.


And keep overspending on domestic surveillance and security since, once we're nearly entirely in 3rd world status, we don't want any unpredictable political uprisings upsetting the power structure.
 
2012-06-10 03:26:38 AM

BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?


Yes.

Link

This is like them getting peed on, right after they found out they had cancer. :(
 
2012-06-10 03:32:09 AM

Di Atribe: mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.

Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.


the funny this is most of those things are private where i live ( not that that makes it better or is even relevant ) my comment wasn't saying that the gov't fails at doing everything. they simply fail to do things even reasonably efficiently. blindly giving them more money doesn't help. i do vote. i don't tell people how to do their jobs ( why would that be something i would have to do? ) i don't biatch into the ether (because it doesn't exist ). i simply said just giving people more money doesn't fix stuff. an obvious statement.
 
2012-06-10 03:50:21 AM

basemetal:
They don't care if their payments are late and that it effects small businesses. You, however, better not be late with your payments to government.


They should hire a consultant from Greece, they're the pros.
 
2012-06-10 03:52:00 AM
An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.
 
2012-06-10 04:42:18 AM

Ika7734: Business side: What do we pay IT for? They're a waste of money
IT: Ok, bye
Business side: where'd my internet go? I can't find my internet anymore? Why isn't this web project done?

Both sides need each other.
IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


"If you never hear from your IT department, they are probably doing a very good job".
 
2012-06-10 04:54:55 AM

mxwjs: i simply said just giving people more money doesn't fix stuff. an obvious statement.


It does when there's more stuff to fix. Consider that there will be more and more computers in any one setting, and more and more people using them. The demands on the systems those machines are linked to will increase. Those machine will also cost more to purchase, maintain and upgrade, as well as the systems they are plugged into.

Why is it that people seem to think that even though they can see prices rising on everything they purchase, from cantaloupes to coffee makers, that they actually expect expenditures made by governments on behalf of their people to remain static? Do you not think what it costs them increases as well? And it's not just prices, it can also be an increase in what they have to buy to meet the needs of their community. More people = more stuff that needs to be done = more money.

Right now where I live the local county board is hearing a bunch of anti-tax morans whine and b*tch about "moar taxxes" with no clue as to how much more it costs the county to provide the services they want so much. Increased fuel costs for county vehicles (which go through thousands of gallons every month), increased food costs for school districts (which go through thousands of pounds of food a week), increased energy costs for heating and cooling any building they own, none of those things seem to matter to these idiots.

Somehow, the price of everything in the private sector can go up all to hell (free market at work and all that sh*t), but what governments spend should never do the same, as if they are somehow immune to those same forces. Too much cost-cutting in the name of "efficiency" and you get people running Windows 2000 server on 486DX machines with 14" 256 color CRT monitors.
 
2012-06-10 04:57:44 AM
Rinse repeat, read on tuesday
 
2012-06-10 05:07:19 AM

Superjew: DeltaPunch: It's just like the Republicans in the House -- they absolutely refuse to pass any spending measures for infrastructure. If they keep getting their way all of America will be effectively crippled as well.

Pretty sure that's the idea.

/making profit in broken countries is like shooting fish in an oil barrel. None of those pesky regulations to gum up the works, a desperately pliable workforce that will slave for peanuts, etc. Republican Paradise.


Peanuts to the first world is 'im rich, biatch!' to the third world. It's shortsighted (or willful blindness), however, to just blame Republicans.

---------------------------------------------

wademh: An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you
.


Quoted for truth. if you aren't seen as a department which 'makes money' for the company, then you are expendable. Companies (and government entities) then go through the process of seeing how much they can get away with and still amass paying customers. You don't even have to worry about hemorrhaging the old customers, as long as you keep getting new ones in the door. Turnover and attrition is just business, instead of something to actively lower through superior service.

The new customers come to expect shiat service as the norm, because they don't know any better. Old customers who want to leave, but don't know how to leave, and/or are themselves stuck on 'it costs money to do it better when what we have is good enough', keep paying for shiat service. Everything turns to shiat. The few profit.

The poor try inefficiently to be part of the few who profit.
 
2012-06-10 05:12:25 AM
Meh. That's what happens when you fire the help that kept your antique equipment running so management can keep a paycheck.

/shrug
 
2012-06-10 05:17:55 AM

mxwjs: they simply fail to do things even reasonably efficiently.



Any actual citations to back this rhetoric up? Companies and governments always overpay for contracting work done and it's usually half assed. Just ask troops electrocuted when they take showers thanks to shoddy "private" contracting work. I bet it's efficient though. And cost less!
 
2012-06-10 05:24:44 AM
If you think only government is inefficient and does stupid stuff like this, you have never worked for a large company.
 
2012-06-10 05:34:29 AM

Earguy: /ears are important


What?
 
2012-06-10 05:47:29 AM

cman: I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.


Aaand, welcome to my favorites. In latrine brown.
 
2012-06-10 06:13:14 AM

ghare: If you think only government is inefficient and does stupid stuff like this, you have never worked for a large company.


But I thought having a president who'd run a big business would be the best thing that ever happened to our country!!
 
2012-06-10 06:22:53 AM
Obvious plan is obvious:

1. Demonize the public sector saying they're lazy and foster an 'us vs them' attitude with the general public. Accept applause when layoffs happen.
2. Let systems fail, because everyone is overworked. Point and say "See, I told you they were lazy, that guy gave up after only 80 hours this week!!"
3. Give a contract to your sister's husband's cousin's company to "come in a clean the mess", costing 4 times what it would have cost to keep the staff on from the layoffs.
4. Profit, and laugh at all the sheep.
 
2012-06-10 06:30:09 AM
Attempting to hire someone capable of doing everything doesn't mean they actually have time to do everything... when will managers start to realize this?
 
2012-06-10 06:39:00 AM
The server runs SAP

Well, well....

I'm convinced that SAP get blowjobs for CEOs. I've not met a single person that endorses it, or a user that finds it better than the old in-house legacy system.

It's also my "should I avoid investing in this company" because I know 3 companies that got it in and within a few years, their share price was much lower. I'm not necessarily saying that SAP caused it so much that if you've got management that buy SAP, you've got the wrong sort of management.
 
2012-06-10 06:48:35 AM

Di Atribe: This is what happens when you cut taxes over & over & over. People lose their jobs & technology suffers & vendors don't get paid. Remember that next time you're biatching about your tax bill.


Or the government and banks collude to engineer a financial meltdown. Bear in mind that counties don't fund operations from income tax.
 
2012-06-10 07:08:46 AM
Babwa Wawa
I reckon you could go with Oracle and see how they do. They'll rape you, stick you with the bar tab, and then complain you didn't pay for the hotel room.

The problem with business process software isn't the software. It's that it's all about business process. If you have a hard time fixing processes in a manual world, software isn't going to solve it - in fact it'll more likely magnify the problem.


Oh, so very true. CSB, worked as a senior consultant in state (shall remain unnamed) government. Took 2 weeks to realize everyone knew they were incompetent and didn't care - it was the defacto standard of the department. Also learned that no one (I mean NO ONE) wanted to discuss business processes, business logic, implementation, or any of the strategy for the projects I was working on. Why? They didn't have the knowledge necessary to bring anything to the table. Their view was 'Write the code - make it work - don't bother me with thinking'. Got a great laugh watching them scratch a 25 million dollar project, because they didn't understand the business processes involved, plus although the canned SW in question was working successfully in four other states, they want mucho 'custom development' to support business processes they never defined. Since then, 90% of management has retired, at 90% of their bloated, undeserved salaries.
 
2012-06-10 07:15:31 AM
Ah Alabamastan. Why don't the farking morons just pray for Computer Jebus to miraculously fix it?
 
2012-06-10 07:24:28 AM
IT Rage thread now with 90% less rage stories.
This thread ain't gonna rage itself ya know.

When I come back I expect to see some real rage here people...

\ Rage
\\ Stories
 
2012-06-10 07:36:16 AM

basemetal: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

Yes, yes it is.


No, no it isn't. It's symptomatic of management that doesn't listen, pays themselves bonuses and lets the hardware/software shrivel up and die. Just completed a full refresh for a client that didn't listen to their previous admins....The admins quit. Ignored every shred of data about best and critical practices and so their email servers wouldn't stay up more than a day or two and when one went down their other clusters soon followed. 18 hour days of firefighting....every day. Oncall was pure hell.
 
2012-06-10 07:38:38 AM

tgambitg: optikeye: Ika7734: IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.

If you do your job correctly, you're invisible and everything just 'works' and they don't see the need for you and infact for most the time the equipment doesn't need you either as it's stable and working just fine with autoscripts etc.

Occasionally, reach over to the server and turn the power off. Wait for calls and then "OMG, I'm right on it...it should be back up in 30 mins." Take a smoke break switch it back on and you're a god.

A good, well trained, properly funded IT department is like the Fire Department... There when shiat needs done, but they should be bored when it's calm.


Best described as hours of endless monotony intersected by moments of pure panic. If your IT department is bored, be grateful.
 
2012-06-10 07:50:54 AM

mr intrepid: But, small government is all efficient, right?


I wish people would stop talking about "small government". Nobody actually wants it - least of all, those who shout for it the loudest.
 
2012-06-10 07:53:49 AM

rohar: My team is running 20 "servers" per employee. I put server in quotes because many of them are multiple boxes behind load balancers. If we include ALL the employees of the company from HR to helpdesk we're still at about 10 servers per employee.

Of course, we wouldn't make the mistake of firing the DBA before we turned the lights out for the last time.


We're running about 60 servers per admin. Though that's not really accurate. My responsibility is virtualization (including VDI) and storage (EMC Clarion and Symmetrix). While I can and do the WinDoze and linux stuff, it's not my primary responsibility. We have 2 guys that do AD/Exchange/OCS/Windows. 1 SQL Server DBA, 1 Backup/Windows, and one Storage/VMware guy (though he's transitioning all the storage responsibilities to me...he backs me up on VMware). We have 2 network guys, 1 security guy (CISSP, firewalls, etc), and one monitoring guy (though the monitoring guy is really helpdesk/deskside support).

The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.
 
2012-06-10 08:02:14 AM

LasersHurt: You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.


Sounds like the place I'm going to be leaving as soon as I find another job. Last year we moved from Altiris to SCCM but do you think they hired anyone who knew SCCM? Now imaging a new system takes about 3 hours (because most of it doesn't work and it's faster to install everything manually) and start to finish, a new user takes 5 hours to set up start to finish. I had 18 new users to set up last week in addition to my regular tier 2 desktop support duties on my share of 600 users.

I could go on and on... A little bit of me said to "stop whining and suck it up" until my boss quit. GTFO time indeed.
 
2012-06-10 08:04:06 AM

Ika7734: IT needs business for the $$, business needs IT to get shiat done. If they think IT doesn't do anything, IT is doing the job right, because they keep stuff up and seem to be invisible.


I wish my IT department understood this. I've said for years that they think the rest of us exist to provide them with IT jobs. That's our purpose: require desktops, servers, network, etc so they have jobs.

To be fair, they're probably as understaffed as the rest of us. My department is one resignation away from a meltdown. It isn't a bad company, but it isn't amazing, either. I think more and more people are biding their time until they can find something better.
 
2012-06-10 08:05:19 AM
I did not see any mention of how the millionaires & billionaires are doing there. That's all the really matters, they're probably paying too much in taxes and that is a tragedy.

/I'd like to know how that pile of idiotic crap SAP became he defacto standard for accounting. I'm guessing it's the same reason there are so many red states,
 
2012-06-10 08:05:41 AM

slayer199: We're running about 60 servers per admin. Though that's not really accurate. My responsibility is virtualization (including VDI) and storage (EMC Clarion and Symmetrix). While I can and do the WinDoze and linux stuff, it's not my primary responsibility. We have 2 guys that do AD/Exchange/OCS/Windows. 1 SQL Server DBA, 1 Backup/Windows, and one Storage/VMware guy (though he's transitioning all the storage responsibilities to me...he backs me up on VMware). We have 2 network guys, 1 security guy (CISSP, firewalls, etc), and one monitoring guy (though the monitoring guy is really helpdesk/deskside support).

The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.


I would so love to get into vitrualization, but that means a ton of certifications and experience that I don't have :(

My company invests in analysts instead of techs or infrastructure. You know, the people that make work but can't actually do it.
 
2012-06-10 08:08:32 AM

cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence


No... it can't.
 
2012-06-10 08:09:57 AM

StingerJ: I wish my IT department understood this. I've said for years that they think the rest of us exist to provide them with IT jobs. That's our purpose: require desktops, servers, network, etc so they have jobs.


You missed the part where you require these things yesterday and didn't bother to submit the work order with the SLA-defined lead time :)
 
2012-06-10 08:23:02 AM
"The server runs SAP, the accounting software system the county uses to track financial activity. "

To all the above observations on how horrible SAP is: THIS

Our team during a conversion process came up with many meanings for the SAP acronym, none of them complimentary.

Sozialistischen
Arbeiter
Programmierung

Stress
And
Pressure

Shutup
And
Program

Stupid
Ass
Processing

I no longer work in SAP, haven't for years. Recruiters still call me because it has to be on my resume to avoid a gap for those years. Good thing I am so out of date in that tech I can not pass a interview, it eliminates the temptation to go back for the money. SAP-ers, (ABAPers, BASIS admins, or specialists in the various modules like APO, BW, FI, etc.) earn big bucks because you have to pay high for people to put up with that thing.

All that said, yeah, laying off that big a chunk of staff and not maintaining and upgrading equipment? 1d10ts.
 
2012-06-10 08:24:46 AM
For a few seconds, I really thought this article was going to be about the Fortune 25 company where I work. Headline says it all. 'Lean and mean' will become 'skinny and pissed' if left unchecked.
 
2012-06-10 08:27:32 AM
Someone should make a sitcom about an IT department at a big company, that would be a laugh riot. Not too big a department, maybe just two men and a woman in the basement.
 
2012-06-10 08:30:59 AM

wademh: An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.


About ten years ago I worked as a retail manager for a smallish company with about twenty superstores. The three managers of my branch, me included, we're having a meeting when we decided it would be a good idea to have a password on a certain function on the computer to stop sales staff accessing it. The branch manager picked up the phone and dialled the number for the head of IT. "Brian" he said "could you put a password on the invoice reprint option on the back office screen?" He heard Brian say "ummm.......... Yeah........... Okay, if you logout and log back in its done"
We did and it was. Brian was great.
 
2012-06-10 08:32:02 AM

CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.


They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.
 
2012-06-10 08:41:48 AM
Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.
 
2012-06-10 08:44:29 AM

slayer199: The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.


THIS.

I've worked in development teams that won't spend £250 for SQL Compare. So instead, they rely on a load of manual processes that cost far, far more, like keeping a whole set of scripts that were applied during the testing process. Then one gets missed, or someone doesn't set a default or something.

Also, places doing loads of DB imports that rather than just buying BizTalk for $10,000, build their own farking file listener tech and management costing far more.
 
2012-06-10 08:49:53 AM
Ceteris Paribus says [TotalFark] 2012-06-09 06:56:08 PM

That's symptomatic of severe financial distress



More like, that's symptomatic idiot conservative thinking. Actually, you can barely call it thought. It's just plain idiocy and greed.

Cuz they don't need no hippy IT people. They just get paid to sit around and look at a computer screen all day. Hell those computers can watch themselves. They can just call their receptionist an IT person and pay her 15 cents more an hour to press the reset button when things get bogged down.

Good enough.
 
2012-06-10 08:51:02 AM

wademh: An IT friend of mine happened upon a group of people from a company he worked for a few years ago. One of the newbies asked something to the effect of "Is it true you used to respond to service calls the same day?" He was a legend, now lost in the mists of outsourced IT. Average response time, 3 weeks. Sure, engineers often lose a few weeks of productivity and miss deadlines but that's the cost of modern business.

Seems my friend would do things like order replacement parts for next day delivery so people could get back on task right away. Somehow, the extra $30 was seen as a grand inefficiency. Afterall, they were paying the engineer regardless so it wasn't seen as an incremental expense if they waited a few days to be productive again.

That's modern business theory for you.


As someone working in the IT-service industry I am always amazed at the complete lack of perspective and unbelievable short-sightedness of some managers and companies.

I don't understand how somebody can complain and whine that they absolutely need this or that system working immediately because every hour it is costing them a small fortune, when they already knew how important the system was when they declined to pay for redundancies and more comprehensive SLAs.

You see this blindness at every level of IT. The customer who tries to buy a warranty upgrade for their laptop after it gets broken, The irate idiot who tries to explain on the phone that is using something for his business and therefore needs it back up working immediately, but for some reason only ever bought a license for private use. The small inhouse it outfit who decided to forego testing their backups and disaster recovery mechanisms because they were afraid they might not work. The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power supplies for their servers. I have seen five and six figure projects be endangered by attempts to save money on a component or license worth less than a hundred.

I can forgive the smaller scale idiots. They are just idiots but on the other end of the spectrum there are people being paid lots of moeny to make such decisions and still get things wrong. There are important decisions being made by people who know that a contract penalty incurred because of a broken system could ruin the entire company, who nonetheless are content to take the risks and forego any sort of appropriate redundancy in their setup.

Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with that sort of people. I get that not everyone can understand the technical details, but once they get the results explained to them they still decide to go with the 'cheaper' option. It is almost as if they are so used to being able to negotiate and bully people into doing what they want that they think the same tactic works on broken machinery. You might be able to get one worker to do the job of two others, that you fired for cost cutting reasons, in addition to his own, you won't be able to talk a server into handling more work than it honestly can. There is nothing a technician can do to make it run faster and the time wasted by hundreds of people who depend on the ageing system is worth much more than the cost of an upgrade or replacement.

There should be course in critical thinking and basic logic included in business studies.
 
2012-06-10 08:52:09 AM

BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorganhas been run by criminally incompetent people for the last 20 years?


FTFY. And yes, they made very bad decisions related to JPMorgan, but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.
 
2012-06-10 08:56:14 AM
Many years ago I worked for a large university in Wisconsin. Our backup system was failing, and we kept asking the boss for money to replace it. For some reason he kept finding better things to do with the money, told us to make do.

Then one day the Police departments database crashed and was wiped. And of course, the backups were hosed. The boss tried to blame us for the mistake, but we had the numerous emails and requests for new equipment so it fell on his head. He was a very unpleasant person to deal with after that.

/left after a year
//former boss was 'promoted' out of the way
 
2012-06-10 09:08:16 AM

Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power supplies for their servers.


Indeed. Too many IT managers don't understand the special value of interruptible power supplies.
 
2012-06-10 09:08:40 AM
Does anybody know what the lettersSAP stands for?
Submit
And
Pray

/Been an SAP contractor since 1994
 
2012-06-10 09:10:35 AM
Part of the reason it is going to take so long to get back up and running is that SAP support is awful.

My last job we would open a ticket with SAP and get a reply in the middle of the night from India. Usually with a question that we would answer the next day and wait 12 hours for the reply.

They get what they paid for. Not much
 
2012-06-10 09:17:30 AM

Mark Ratner: Just wait for Y2K..shiat will hit the fan


That's not for another 36 years. We have plenty of time.
 
2012-06-10 09:18:21 AM
They say nobody in IT is indispensable, but somebody there was.
 
2012-06-10 09:22:33 AM

Loren: Exactly. This is the one reason that outsourcing government service often makes sense--it's not that private enterprise is inherently cheaper, it's that a competitive marketplace makes things more efficient.


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAAAAHHAHHA Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
 
2012-06-10 09:27:14 AM
I rather like my old IT job at the University of Arizona: the research group I worked for didn't have huge piles of money, but they had enough funding to do things right most of the time.

For example, the computers in the lab controlled various DNA sequencers and other research equipment. They offloaded the data to a file storage server. The administration realized that this data was critical, so the storage system was a great multi-RAID-6-with-hot-spares system. They had a few spare disks sitting on the shelf so they could swap out failed disks and send them off for warranty replacement without running the array in a degraded state (we considered an intact array running without a hot spare as "degraded"). That storage array was backed up to tape every night.

All the computers driving the instruments had full-system images taken monthly, differential images taken every week, and incremental images taken every night. Images were automatically merged into each other over time on a "rolling window" basis so we had a six-month rolling window of backups. The entire backup chain for each system was validated nightly to ensure integrity. While they didn't store research data, it would have taken days to reinstall these systems from scratch, install the software, import all the calibrations, etc. When one of the systems failed, we replaced it with a spare, wrote the image to it, replaced the hardware interface card for the instrument, and had it back up and running within two hours. The lab director was there the whole time (he was really cool and was a bit antsy about the system being down) and he had this look of amazement, as if he were watching us do magic. Evidently there was room in the budget for beer and pizza after that one.

The IT director in this group had a pretty good policy: if you have idle time (which means systems are working well), try to use that time to figure out new ways of improving how things worked. Whether that's doing more development on the in-house web-based lab management system, researching better backup systems, virtualizing servers (where appropriate), etc. If we could provide suitable justification, funding could be made available for certain projects (but not everything, of course). Constant maintenance and improvement kept things running smoothly for us, made the scientists more productive, and kept the whole research group happy.

Of course, I took off my jack-of-all-trades IT hat, went to grad school (different school), and am on the other side of the IT/science fence. It's weird being on this side.
 
2012-06-10 09:35:29 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I think this qualifies as irony: you cut your IT staff to save money and that causes your financial software to collapse which causes you to lose money.


I came to say this.

They couldn't pay everyone, so steps were taken. Now they can't pay anyone.

Take a note, Alanis.
 
2012-06-10 09:43:57 AM
I think IT workers should unionize.
 
2012-06-10 09:51:51 AM
A freaking 486??? I'm 18 and I have NEVER used a 486...
/I've used an Apple ][ in second grade though
//I wish I knew where it ended up- it may still be in that classroom
///There was a junkyard of computer equipment in the choir room of my Middle School
////I'll stop with the slashes now...
 
2012-06-10 09:54:39 AM
As someone who is currently in the middle of converting databases from the old ERP to SAP, I am totally not getting a kick out of this article.

/gonna go hide under a desk somewhere
 
2012-06-10 09:57:33 AM

cavehobbit: 1d10ts.


For a second I couldn't figure out what the "t" was for. Also what the hell is with your booty pic? That shiat burns the eyes.
 
2012-06-10 09:58:55 AM
CSB:
Also, my teacher told me a story about how, way back in 1995 she had to repair the neighboring county's network system- apparently the whole network was connected on one serial line- so that if a single network card failed anywhere in the county (which is huge), the whole county would go down. Since the cards weren't reliable- this happened very often. I think she ended up running the whole system in parallel, but still- sounds like absolute hell.

/Again, there are seniors who were not born yet when this took place...
 
2012-06-10 10:08:08 AM
The amusing thing about this "Race to the Bottom" is that those who are winning it really believe they are WINNING.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-10 10:15:31 AM
Heh, how's that focus on the "bottom line" working out for ya'?
 
2012-06-10 10:15:35 AM
They administrated their way into this so I'm sure they can administrate their way out of it.
 
2012-06-10 10:37:37 AM

Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power


That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?
 
2012-06-10 10:40:00 AM

JustGetItRight: but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.


Like I said, Alabamastan. They probably have pictures of Evil Bert on the posters they chant behind, even.
 
2012-06-10 10:41:07 AM
When Y2K comes, you're screwed.
 
2012-06-10 10:46:59 AM

farkeruk: slayer199: The point is that you can run MORE efficiently with less staff if you pay the money for infrastructure.

THIS.

I've worked in development teams that won't spend £250 for SQL Compare. So instead, they rely on a load of manual processes that cost far, far more, like keeping a whole set of scripts that were applied during the testing process. Then one gets missed, or someone doesn't set a default or something.

Uh, you realize SQL Compare is built in to Visual Studio now right?


Also, places doing loads of DB imports that rather than just buying BizTalk for $10,000, build their own farking file listener tech and management costing far more.


I manage about 2TB worth of filestreams per day. Most require CEP and are encoded in interesting ways due to the subject matters. To do something similar on BizTalk would tripple the size of our interpretation footprint AND increase TTM by 4x. And yes, I did evaluate it. Welcome to internet time when all solutions aren't as simple as an accounting package.

Your favorite off the shelf package isn't always the cheapest.

That said, the OP is correct. The difference in output between an average practitioner and an excellent practitioner can be an order of magnitude with the cost difference between the two only about 30%. Sometimes when you pay more, you get more than you pay for.
 
2012-06-10 10:48:02 AM

ArmanTanzarian: Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.


Newman!
 
2012-06-10 10:51:03 AM

CheatCommando: Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power

That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?


Sometimes, when things seem to be running too smoothly, and management is losing sight of the mission critical nature of IT, or near time for annual reviews, we send a ping to the interruptible power supplies for the servers and bring the whole kit and caboodle down. Some consider it blackmail but we prefer to think of it as a second generation approach to proactive risk management.
 
2012-06-10 10:56:42 AM

farkmedown: ArmanTanzarian: Haahaaa... I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try.

Newman!


Is Dodgson here?

/nobdody cares
 
2012-06-10 11:03:27 AM

wademh: CheatCommando: Loki-L: The Idiot IT manager who thinks that Ipads for managers are more important than interruptible power

That was a pretty big oops, dontcha think?

Sometimes, when things seem to be running too smoothly, and management is losing sight of the mission critical nature of IT, or near time for annual reviews, we send a ping to the interruptible power supplies for the servers and bring the whole kit and caboodle down. Some consider it blackmail but we prefer to think of it as a second generation approach to proactive risk management.


The pun. You missed it.
 
2012-06-10 11:13:46 AM

CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.


You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.
 
2012-06-10 11:15:00 AM

LasersHurt: You will never, ever go wrong by paying a little extra for a good IT staff and the equipment they need.

You will, however, be a giant dick when you don't give them what they need, then biatch at them when something goes wrong.


Just outsource everything.
 
2012-06-10 11:15:15 AM

Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress


No, it is a symptom of government run stupidity. A private company would have kept things up to date in a cost effective way. Government has no incentive since taxpayer money is free.
 
2012-06-10 11:16:50 AM

CruJones: CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.

You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


Your sysad's name is Rodney. Interesting, we let go a guy named Rodney a few years ago. Performance issues.
 
2012-06-10 11:24:27 AM

CruJones: CognaciousThunk: CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.

They projected the same thing 12 years ago; then the dot.coms went bust. In the end, when sanity prevails and adults start running the show, companies want to be in full control of their data. 'Cloud' is just the center spot on the Bullshiat Bingo card.

You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


If you EVER have to wake Rodney in the middle of the night you didn't design/maintain your datacenter real well did you?

/yeah, I know, that node's hosed
//vpn in, mark it down on the load balancer
///take care of it in the morning
 
2012-06-10 11:30:44 AM
This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.
 
2012-06-10 11:36:21 AM
costplustyres.com
 
2012-06-10 11:51:50 AM

cc_rider: BarkingUnicorn: This is the same county that filed bankruptcy because it sold its soul to JPMorgan?

Yes.

Link

This is like them getting peed on, right after they found out they had cancer. :(


You say "getting peed on" like it's a bad thing.
 
2012-06-10 11:57:56 AM
First problem.... these idiots in Jefferson County are using SAP.
 
2012-06-10 11:58:49 AM

Earguy: eraser8: Earguy: Keep your ear to the ground for new work.

Everything's about ears with you, isn't it?

You haven't seen me in sports threads, have you?

/ears are important


"Ears to you, Mrs. Robinson..."
 
2012-06-10 12:23:04 PM

rohar: Uh, you realize SQL Compare is built in to Visual Studio now right?


In Premium and Ultimate editions, it is. Not in Pro.

And yeah, I'm not saying BizTalk is amazing, but I've seen it used very well in a couple of places.
 
2012-06-10 12:23:09 PM

GoldSpider: I would so love to get into vitrualization, but that means a ton of certifications and experience that I don't have :(


I don't have a VMware cert and I've been doing it for 5 years. You just need to get a gig that will get you the experience.

My company invests in analysts instead of techs or infrastructure. You know, the people that make work but can't actually do it.

Awhile back I worked for one of the big 3 Automakers. They'd re-org ever 6-8 months. After each re-org they'd promote techs to team leads so we ended up with fewer techs and more team leads whose primary function was pulling metrics on how efficient we were. Think that one over.

I had a gig a couple years ago. 1 boss...50 people reported to him. We met with him once a week. He basically set direction and left us alone to do our jobs. If someone put up a roadblock, he'd step in and knock it down. He was technical enough to understand what we were doing and supportive. They weren't afraid to save money so long as we could write a business case as to how it would make us more efficient or proactive. One of the best bosses I've ever had.

My current gig is like that...though my direct report is very technical, his boss is like that...very supportive of what we do and not afraid to spend money if it helps stability and the people in the field to do their jobs. Though it wasn't always that way...they found out the hard way before I arrived that cutting corners on IT hurts their business.
 
2012-06-10 12:24:59 PM
*Sigh* This sounds like my workplace.
We have ancient equipment (but the management all just got new laptops), I'm the only one who knows how to program the PBX's, and I have to share certain programs with my 3 other co-workers on a network drive because the company won't buy more than 1 license, and the co-workers like to mess up the settings or delete things from the program...

And this is at a Fortune 50 company...
 
2012-06-10 12:31:43 PM
Here I was thinking they were talking about my company! Still rocking Windows XP/2000 on almost every computer, as well as non-flatscreen monitors and software so old, that even the "updated" version they've started to roll out is from 2008. Getting any work done is a challenge and I probably spend a combined hour of my day waiting for the POS to load.

But hey, our CEO is concerned about cutting support costs and getting customers to spend more money. Let's reduce our staff and keep using infuriatingly slow systems! That'll be GREAT!
 
2012-06-10 12:31:43 PM

Hale-Bopp: This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.


And yet Wisconsin unemployment is getting better under Walker.......
 
2012-06-10 12:38:41 PM

rohar: That said, the OP is correct. The difference in output between an average practitioner and an excellent practitioner can be an order of magnitude with the cost difference between the two only about 30%. Sometimes when you pay more, you get more than you pay for.


THIS ^^^

The last gig I had, they had outsourced Tier 1-2 to an Indian company who brought their VMware tech to the US. He was horrible. I took him a couple days to build 4 VMs from a template. His primary job was Tier 1-2 support so he should have been able to handle that (especially since I wrote a doc on the template including screenshots for everything). He couldn't fix common VMware errors...didn't know where to look when things were broken, etc. Just to prove a point, I spun up 40 VMs from a template in 2 hours for stress-testing in our lab.

Since I had completed all I could do in terms of engineering (setting up VMware globally including infrastructure, testing, standards and documentation), the handwriting was on the wall so I left. They asked what it would take for me to stay. I told them get rid of the Tier 1-2 guy and let me handle support for VMware globally. I told them I'd save them the $60k a year (probably $45/hr billable) they were spending on the guy. Yes, I was much more expensive at $75/hr 1099, but I could easily do his job AND my job. They declined and they're finding out how crappy the support is now that I'm gone (and I took a pay cut to get my current gig which is a direct hire). Though to be honest, I'm better off in my new gig for less money because I'm learning new things which will make me more valuable down the line and it's a helluva lot more fun to go to work.

Outsourcing seldom saves a company money. Yes, guys like me are expensive...but we're expensive because we're good.
 
2012-06-10 12:45:52 PM

CruJones: You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.


More likely is private clouds. I know my company would never go to something like Amazon's EC2. They want full control over the data which is the lifeblood of our business. For smaller companies, I can see going to hosted mail or servers...it makes sense. You don't need to have a network or storage guy...just a sysadmin to run the servers. "The Cloud" is overhyped (just like VDI). At the end of the day, It really depends on the needs of the business and the users.
 
2012-06-10 01:02:08 PM

Thunderpipes: Hale-Bopp: This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.

And yet Wisconsin unemployment is getting better under Walker.......


If by better you mean there's more of it, then yes. The unemployment rate still sits at 9% in my county alone. Hilarious that you think otherwise, but then you don't live in Wisconsin and haven't been experiencing it first hand like I have. I'll take my own word for it.
 
2012-06-10 01:06:50 PM

The Angry Hand of God: Di Atribe: mxwjs: they almost never keep up with their end.

Almost NEVER? I'd say they keep up their end more times than not. Think about all of the things that continue to work & make your life easier on a day to day basis. Road repairs, trash pickup, police presence, fire departments, zoning regulations, water treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly know better how to spend that money, then I'd suggest running for office. If not, then vote & write your politicians. But for godsakes quit biatching into the ether about shiat you know nothing about.

If I was voted into office, you would be in charge of graphing the power rankings for the NFL teams. If you did well, I might even promote you to the manager of the football pool.


I would serve with honor, good sir! Man, that would be so great if I could get paid to just have fun all day.
 
2012-06-10 01:08:35 PM

Thunderpipes: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

No, it is a symptom of government run stupidity. A private company would have kept things up to date in a cost effective way. Government has no incentive since taxpayer money is free.


You didn't RTFA did you.
 
2012-06-10 01:11:33 PM

Babwa Wawa: SAP is a beast not to be f*cked with.


Unless you're a consultant for SAP related stuff. Looks like they took the cash that paid the competent staff's salary and ended up paying it to the incompetent consultant.

Hale-Bopp: This already came to Wisconsin. You're just not hearing about it yet because our servers are still catching up.


Before or after Walker came into office? Implementing SAP is difficult as it is when you have competent people in the private sector; it will be a colossal waste of tax dollars given the incompetence generated by cronyism-driven austerity.

If you know SAP well enough to collect a paycheck, it is a literal goldmine. Walk in, set it up, then leave with your large paycheck.


Strangerarranger: Does anybody know what the letters SAP stands for?
Submit
And
Pray


Or Such A Pain?
 
2012-06-10 01:17:23 PM

mxwjs: the funny this is most of those things are private where i live ( not that that makes it better or is even relevant ) my comment wasn't saying that the gov't fails at doing everything. they simply fail to do things even reasonably efficiently. blindly giving them more money doesn't help. i do vote. i don't tell people how to do their jobs ( why would that be something i would have to do? ) i don't biatch into the ether (because it doesn't exist ). i simply said just giving people more money doesn't fix stuff. an obvious statement.


Wrong. You said governments "never keep up their end of the deal." And I called bullshiat. Because it is. Don't sit there and tell me you said one thing when you clearly said much more than that.

I promise you that NO ONE hands out money blindly. I really don't know where you get that from. Departments in your local government fight constantly for depleted funds. Budget proposals are fought over & cut all the time. I have no idea where you get the idea that we're just POURING taxpayer dollars into dead end projects and inefficient systems. I really don't & it makes me wonder if you've ever worked in the public sector at all. No one ever said that pouring more money into something solves every problem. But if you look at this article, pouring money into a new server would've mitigated this county's problem.

And governments do things efficiently all the time, you just don't notice because they're running efficiently. I feel sorry for you if your police & fire are privatized. That sounds like a huge recipe for disaster. Literally.
 
2012-06-10 01:24:06 PM

slayer199: CruJones: You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.

More likely is private clouds. I know my company would never go to something like Amazon's EC2. They want full control over the data which is the lifeblood of our business. For smaller companies, I can see going to hosted mail or servers...it makes sense. You don't need to have a network or storage guy...just a sysadmin to run the servers. "The Cloud" is overhyped (just like VDI). At the end of the day, It really depends on the needs of the business and the users.


Despite the protests, the future is hybrid hosting. Some stuff in dedicated gear somewhere, bursting in the public cloud as needed, or for test/dev. Right now, and the near future, public clouds can't handle security well enough, or the high IO needed for some databases. It all depends on the needs. If it's something you can live with being down for a few hours, that's one thing. But when you're EA Sports and tens of thousands are playing a game simultaneously, you need as much help as you can get. A large ecommerce site can lose tens of thousands with a small outage.
 
2012-06-10 01:26:22 PM

Deathfrogg: You didn't RTFA did you.


Don't feed the parody troll. That particular comment, coming so late in a thread about snafus in all manner of organizations, should be the clue here.
 
2012-06-10 01:30:06 PM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.


If there is a train wreck unfolding in front of you, that does not mean you can do anything about it.
 
2012-06-10 01:33:35 PM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: Hey, what do you know, Republican government policy is completely idiotic and fails horribly.

Same can be said for every government policy in existence

You're ex-military. So you're saying, you are, or rather were, part of the problem?

Oh of course I was

I've had this same conversation recently with someone who is not only currently working for a university and government entity as I am, but has worked for a city government in the past. He didn't understand why I said he was a hypocrite for complaining about government inefficiency WHILE he was on the clock working for the government.

Basically, I don't think you should be allowed to complain about government inefficiency if you were part of the problem. Particularly when you're actively working for the government or taking money from them.

There was absolutely nothing that I could do about government inefficiency. I wasnt some big time leader in charge of ensuring that financial reports were sent out on time; I was a small time soldier who's major responsibility was ensuring that all the feces was burned in the shiat barrels and to ensure that the fire was out before I put the barrels back inside the shiat shack.


Save your breath. He's retarded. Ask him to explain the first amendment to you.
 
2012-06-10 01:33:42 PM
This is what you get when you defy the will of the Wizard-Priest kings of IT !
 
2012-06-10 01:53:21 PM

wildcardjack: There are danger in signing maintenance contracts without having IT check it out first.

They you might need... A Contract-Killer


[3.bp.blogspot.com image 635x800]


I see you are familiar with Simon!
 
2012-06-10 02:06:45 PM

slayer199: CruJones: You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.

More likely is private clouds. I know my company would never go to something like Amazon's EC2. They want full control over the data which is the lifeblood of our business. For smaller companies, I can see going to hosted mail or servers...it makes sense. You don't need to have a network or storage guy...just a sysadmin to run the servers. "The Cloud" is overhyped (just like VDI). At the end of the day, It really depends on the needs of the business and the users.


This cracks me up. I recently had a client who is using "one of the leading in the cloud providers" as a hosted solution. And was told he was getting private hosting.

Well not so much. Turns out the private cloud quote unquote was just a /22 being shared by who the eff knows who else. We saw all kinds of traffic though, not just broadcast (bad enough) but other routed stuff that had no business being in "his" lan.

They're switching hosting companies. But I can assure you the one they were on would be mentioned first or second by a lot of people looking for hosting, and whose reputation is stellar.

tl;dr: hosting companies lie about how private your data is in these so called private clouds, even so called IaaS ..
 
2012-06-10 02:08:18 PM

Eshkar: I think IT workers should unionize.


Jesus f*ck lord no.

I'm not anti raving union, but .. as a 17 year "tech" I can tell you this would be about as popular as if you took a dump on the nachos at happy hour.
 
2012-06-10 02:18:38 PM

tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?


Cloud computing has only been around for ~5 years. Give it another 10 before anyone in local government will do anything other than dismiss it outright as a passing fad, if they even dignify it with a response other than I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT THERE'S NO WAY IT WILL WORK NOW GET BACK TO WORK.

/Ah, local business and local government.
//They probably bought that 486 (MAXED OUT) in from a garage sale in 2002.
 
2012-06-10 02:34:34 PM
As an IT dude, this made me LOL
 
2012-06-10 02:36:51 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: just go back to COBOL


We did, it pointed us to where the thirteenth colony was: Earth
 
2012-06-10 02:41:38 PM

jso2897: mr intrepid: But, small government is all efficient, right?

I wish people would stop talking about "small government". Nobody actually wants it - least of all, those who shout for it the loudest.


Actually, they do want "small government"... just not for them. Take services away from someone else instead, because I deserve them.
Just another part of the "I got/want mine, f*ck you" mentality that is part of this mindset.
 
2012-06-10 03:03:17 PM

foxyshadis: tb tibbles: Cloud computing is being hyped as a way to bypass equipment and maintenance costs. anything wrong with that picture?

Cloud computing has only been around for ~5 years. Give it another 10 before anyone in local government will do anything other than dismiss it outright as a passing fad, if they even dignify it with a response other than I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT THERE'S NO WAY IT WILL WORK NOW GET BACK TO WORK.

/Ah, local business and local government.
//They probably bought that 486 (MAXED OUT) in from a garage sale in 2002.


You realize clouds are made of vapor right? By definition, cloud computing must be vaporware.
 
2012-06-10 03:17:31 PM

Generation_D: slayer199: CruJones: You have full control of your data, and these hosting companies have been around longer than 12 years. Some are very profitable and provide fantastic support. I'm not talking about buying a slice of a server at Amazon. I'm talking about dedicated managed hosting, where you still have root access, and full control of your data. You just have someone else run the hardware, OS, backups, etc. But if I have a config that needs HA firewalls and load balancers, a six server web farm, with a MySQL cluster running on some SAN in the backend, it's a hell of a lot easier (and usually cheaper) and more reliable than having to have Rodney wake up in the middle of the night and drive to the office to fix a failed motherboard.

More likely is private clouds. I know my company would never go to something like Amazon's EC2. They want full control over the data which is the lifeblood of our business. For smaller companies, I can see going to hosted mail or servers...it makes sense. You don't need to have a network or storage guy...just a sysadmin to run the servers. "The Cloud" is overhyped (just like VDI). At the end of the day, It really depends on the needs of the business and the users.

This cracks me up. I recently had a client who is using "one of the leading in the cloud providers" as a hosted solution. And was told he was getting private hosting.

Well not so much. Turns out the private cloud quote unquote was just a /22 being shared by who the eff knows who else. We saw all kinds of traffic though, not just broadcast (bad enough) but other routed stuff that had no business being in "his" lan.

They're switching hosting companies. But I can assure you the one they were on would be mentioned first or second by a lot of people looking for hosting, and whose reputation is stellar.

tl;dr: hosting companies lie about how private your data is in these so called private clouds, even so called IaaS ..


What's a shame is that many (most) internal IT folks have no idea that they're competing with these folks for their jobs. Your MS rep comes around today and says "Hey why don't you do DR on Azure?" and DR's a pain in the ass to manage, so you bring him around to the CIO, maybe the CEO or CFO for a cost justification.

He has a different conversation with that guy - it's how they can do what you're doing cheaper and faster. And of course they can because they're designing for 99.9% availability (hell, is Office 365 even replicated off-site yet? I know last year they weren't). Jesus, even the 99.9% is just service availability - they have absolutely no type of obligation around the availability of your data. AWS is the same.

And as if the bar isn't set low enough already, the payout of SLA violations is the portion of the service you didn't get. If you paid $75k a month to provide a function for your business and it's down for the month, the business impact might be in the millions. But you get your $75k and shut the f*ck up.

Yes there are providers who will provide 4 and even 5 9 SLAs, and include your data in it, but that shiat's pretty expensive, and there's the CFO saying "Hey, it's Microsoft, they couldn't f*ck things up that badly, could they?"

But I see IT folks (particularly the propeller-heads like Exchange admins) brokering meetings for their Microsoft reps with C level folks all the time, as if Microsoft isn't actually competing with them for their job. They'll be stunned by the pink slip in a few years.
 
2012-06-10 03:35:05 PM

Babwa Wawa: Yes there are providers who will provide 4 and even 5 9 SLAs, and include your data in it, but that shiat's pretty expensive, and there's the CFO saying "Hey, it's Microsoft, they couldn't f*ck things up that badly, could they?"


Microsoft is learning how to do that, but they're still nowhere close to IBM. IBM calls every f*cking week, talks about the sun, the moon, and the stars in your hands, and as soon as they find out I have any idea what I'm talking about, they can't get off the phone fast enough. Always want to be transferred to someone without a clue. No, sweetie, I own this company, but you can talk to my after-hours answer service if you like.

Babwa Wawa: But I see IT folks (particularly the propeller-heads like Exchange admins) brokering meetings for their Microsoft reps with C level folks all the time, as if Microsoft isn't actually competing with them for their job. They'll be stunned by the pink slip in a few years.


Luckily, in most of the places I've been, the knee-jerk response to any request now is "no." But it'll be free. No. But it'll do what you pay a full-time person to do, and an admin can take an hour to maintain it once a year or so. No. But if she dies or quits you'll be hosed for a month. No. But you brought me in and pay me to do this already. No!

This will change as soon as the economy gets back on track - back in 2004 everything was Yes Yes Yes Now Now Now. Hi, I'm from Microsoft and we-- I'll take ten. VMWare can save you-- Let's do it. Small biz owners are gunshy now, but they never have any idea what to do with wads of money floating around and just start throwing it at anyone who asks. Not complaining, as I've been a big beneficiary in the past (one peeled ten benjamins off of his personal wad and handed them to me), but it doesn't exactly make for stellar results.
 
2012-06-10 03:53:31 PM
I am a young nurse who happens to be male and plays PC games. Because of this, I have become renown at work amongst mostly female coworkers as a computer expert. One time at the main office I asked IT for the password to the wifi and they condescendingly told me the password was not given out to just anyone and that I would have to bring my laptop to them personally to "enable internet access." So I did and they just put in the wifi PW for me. After leaving the room I promptly hit reveal characters to discover the coveted SSID password... darthv8der. Which also happened to be the password for changing the main routers settings. I think I'm going to bring in an old phone that gets wifi and use it to change the broadcasted SSID to "Jerry Sandusky's Daycare Service"

/we like to have fun here
 
2012-06-10 03:55:26 PM
As a shining example of what happens when you try to introduce efficiency to the government: Someone close to me worked in private sector for 20 years or so, then got hired on by the federal government. His office has people who process their own billing and payments etc. The agency he works for has their own massive payment processing department in another building, designed to handle all agency wide transactions. Inefficiency... so he lead a project to eliminate those positions and transfer those responsibilities to the proper place.

His bosses then go: now what do we do with those people who lost their duties? Answer: lay them off, save money, the whole point of this. So what do they do? No, we find them jobs. New task for those people: audit the other departments processing of their lost duties. That's right... instead of completing the budget trimming, they now reprocess everything they have the other department to process. No lay offs or transfers at all.

farking government.
 
2012-06-10 04:45:58 PM

CheatCommando: JustGetItRight: but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.

Like I said, Alabamastan. They probably have pictures of Evil Bert on the posters they chant behind, even.


Nope. Your earlier post couldn't be more off base. In this county, they won't be praying for an intervention. Jessie and Al will lead a march about the racist servers because clearly race is why they failed to properly serve Jefferson county.

The people they've been electing that have run it inot the ground aren't the ones promising God will save them, they're the ones saying society owes you something and I'll make sure you get it - and by the way I'll be taking a big chunk for me too.
 
2012-06-10 04:49:30 PM

foxyshadis: Babwa Wawa: Yes there are providers who will provide 4 and even 5 9 SLAs, and include your data in it, but that shiat's pretty expensive, and there's the CFO saying "Hey, it's Microsoft, they couldn't f*ck things up that badly, could they?"

Microsoft is learning how to do that, but they're still nowhere close to IBM. IBM calls every f*cking week, talks about the sun, the moon, and the stars in your hands, and as soon as they find out I have any idea what I'm talking about, they can't get off the phone fast enough. Always want to be transferred to someone without a clue. No, sweetie, I own this company, but you can talk to my after-hours answer service if you like.

Babwa Wawa: But I see IT folks (particularly the propeller-heads like Exchange admins) brokering meetings for their Microsoft reps with C level folks all the time, as if Microsoft isn't actually competing with them for their job. They'll be stunned by the pink slip in a few years.

Luckily, in most of the places I've been, the knee-jerk response to any request now is "no." But it'll be free. No. But it'll do what you pay a full-time person to do, and an admin can take an hour to maintain it once a year or so. No. But if she dies or quits you'll be hosed for a month. No. But you brought me in and pay me to do this already. No!

This will change as soon as the economy gets back on track - back in 2004 everything was Yes Yes Yes Now Now Now. Hi, I'm from Microsoft and we-- I'll take ten. VMWare can save you-- Let's do it. Small biz owners are gunshy now, but they never have any idea what to do with wads of money floating around and just start throwing it at anyone who asks. Not complaining, as I've been a big beneficiary in the past (one peeled ten benjamins off of his personal wad and handed them to me), but it doesn't exactly make for stellar results.


It's all jargon and hardly a threat to any of our jobs. We've done this before, we'll do it again. A fad comes through that promises to reduce man power. It kinda does, we can do more with less manpower. But then we have idle manpower that we exploit to do bigger things than we did before. Wash rinse repeat.

Whatever problem you're banging your head on today will be a commodity solution tomorrow. We'll then be chasing bigger problems.

If you keep your head in the game, stay on top of the tide and KNOW YOUR DAMNED FUNDAMENTALS. You'll increase your income out of all of this.

If you don't, you'll be the poor sucker in the IT department in bum fark somewhere in the south with the bullet point on the resume "I farked up our entire accounting system". You'll envy the bastards that got laid off before it happened.
 
2012-06-10 04:51:49 PM

JustGetItRight: CheatCommando: JustGetItRight: but the real cause for their problems are the decisions repeatedly made by the voters.

Like I said, Alabamastan. They probably have pictures of Evil Bert on the posters they chant behind, even.

Nope. Your earlier post couldn't be more off base. In this county, they won't be praying for an intervention. Jessie and Al will lead a march about the racist servers because clearly race is why they failed to properly serve Jefferson county.

The people they've been electing that have run it inot the ground aren't the ones promising God will save them, they're the ones saying society owes you something and I'll make sure you get it - and by the way I'll be taking a big chunk for me too.


Funny you bring that up. Once upon a time we used to call computer devices names like "master" and "slave". We don't anymore. Wonder what happened.
 
2012-06-10 05:09:40 PM

Thunderpipes: Ceteris Paribus says: That's symptomatic of severe financial distress

No, it is a symptom of government run stupidity. A private company would have kept things up to date in a cost effective way. Government has no incentive since taxpayer money is free.


It's true. Private companies never fark things up.
 
2012-06-10 05:25:18 PM

Generation_D: Eshkar: I think IT workers should unionize.

Jesus f*ck lord no.

I'm not anti raving union, but .. as a 17 year "tech" I can tell you this would be about as popular as if you took a dump on the nachos at happy hour.


As a 13 year veteran "tech" I think they should, especially when it comes to big corporations that fark over techs with small salaries (or shiaty hourly) with impossible work loads a collective voice would be nice.
 
2012-06-10 05:26:49 PM

rohar: we used to call computer devices names like "master" and "slave". We don't anymore. Wonder what happened.


IDE was pretty much replaced by SATA, of course. Furrfu. Kids these days.

I have 2 IDE DVD+-RWs, which still work just fine....
 
2012-06-10 05:41:22 PM

Eshkar: Generation_D: Eshkar: I think IT workers should unionize.

Jesus f*ck lord no.

I'm not anti raving union, but .. as a 17 year "tech" I can tell you this would be about as popular as if you took a dump on the nachos at happy hour.

As a 13 year veteran "tech" I think they should, especially when it comes to big corporations that fark over techs with small salaries (or shiaty hourly) with impossible work loads a collective voice would be nice.


It's almost legally impossible. Development exception in the FLSA takes it off the table.
 
2012-06-10 05:47:20 PM
Also Relevant, from December 1995:

On the first day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
A database with a broken b-tree (what the hell is a b-tree
anyway?)

On the second day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Two transceiver failures (CRC errors? Collisions? What is
going on?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Rebuild WHAT? It's a
10GB database!)

On the third day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Three French users (who, of course, think they know
everything)
Two transceiver failures (which are now spewing packets all
over the net)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Backup? What backup?)

On the fourth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Four calls for support (playing the same Christmas song over
and over)
Three French users (Why do they like to argue so much over
trivial things?)
Two transceiver failures (How the hell do I know which ones
they are?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Pointer error? What's a
pointer error?)


On the fifth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Five golden SCSI contacts (Of course they're better than
silver!)
Four support calls (Ever notice how time stands still when on
hold?
Three French users (No, we don't have footpedals on PC's. Why
do you ask?)
Two transceiver failures (If I knew which ones were bad, I
would know which ones to fix!)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Not till next week? Are
you nuts?!?!)

On the sixth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Six games a-playing (On the production network, of course!)
Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean "not terminated!")
Four support calls (No, don't transfer me again - do you HEAR?
Damn!)
Three French users (No, you cannot scan in by putting the page
to the screen...)
Two transceiver failures (I can't look at the LEDs - they're
in the ceiling!)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Norway? That's where this
was written?)

On the seventh day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Seven license failures (Expired? When?)
Six games a-playing (Please stop tying up the PBX to talk to
each other!)
Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean I need "wide"
SCSI?)
Four support calls (At least the Muzak is different this
time...)
Three French Users (Well, monsieur, there really isn't an
"any" key, but...)
Two transceiver failures (SQE? What is that? If I knew I would
set it myself!)
And a database with a broken b-tree (No, I really need to talk
to Lars - NOW!)



On the eighth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Eight MODEMs dialing (Who bought these? They're a security
violation!)
Seven license failures (How many WEEKS to get a license?)
Six games a-playing (What do you mean one pixel per packet on
updates?!?)
Five golden SCSI contacts (Fast SCSI? It's supposed to be
fast, isn't it?)
Four support calls (I already told them that! Don't transfer
me back - DAMN!)
Three French users (No, CTL-ALT-DEL is not the proper way to
end a program)
Two transceiver failures (What do you mean "babbling
transceiver"?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Does anyone speak English
in Oslo?)

On the ninth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Nine lady executives with attitude (She said do WHAT with the
servers?)
Eight MODEMs dialing (You've been downloading WHAT?)
Seven license failures (We sent the P.O. two months ago!)
Six games a-playing (HOW many people are doing this to the
network?)
Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean two have the same
ID?)
Four support calls (No, I am not at the console - I tried that
already.)
Three French users (No, only one floppy fits at a time? Why do
you ask?)
Two transceiver failures (Spare? What spare?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (No, I am trying to find
Lars! L-A-R-S!)



On the tenth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Ten SNMP alerts flashing (What is that Godawful beeping?)
Nine lady executives with attitude (No, it used to be a mens
room? Why?)
Eight MODEMs dialing (What Internet provider? We don't allow
Internet here!)
Seven license failures (SPA? Why are they calling us?)
Six games a-playing (No, you don't need a graphics accelerator
for Lotus! )
Five golden SCSI contacts (You mean I need ANOTHER cable?)
Four support calls (No, I never needed an account number
before...)
Three French users (When the PC sounds like a cat, it's a head
crash!)
Two transceiver failures (Power connection? What power
connection?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (Restore what index
pointers?)

On the eleventh day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Eleven boards a-frying (What is that terrible smell?)
Ten SNMP alerts flashing (What's a MIB, anyway? What's an
extension?)
Nine lady executives with attitude (Mauve? Our computer room
tiles in mauve?)
Eight MODEMs dialing (What do you mean you let your roommate
dial-in?)
Seven license failures (How many other illegal copies do we
have?!?!)
Six games a-playing (I told you - AFTER HOURS!)
Five golden SCSI contacts (If I knew what was wrong, I
wouldn't be calling!)
Four support calls (Put me on hold again and I will slash your
credit rating!)
Three French users (Don't hang your floppies with a magnet
again!)
Two transceiver failures (How should I know if the connector
is bad?)
And a database with a broken b-tree (I already did all of
that!)

On the twelfth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
Twelve virtual pipe connections (There's only supposed to be
two!)
Eleven boards a-frying (What a surge suppressor supposed to
do, anyway?)
Ten SNMP alerts flashing (From a distance, it does kinda look
like XMas lights.)
Nine lady executives with attitude (What do you mean aerobics
before backups?)
Eight MODEMs dialing (No, we never use them to connect during
business hours.)
Seven license failures (We're all going to jail, I just know
it.)
Six games a-playing (No, no - my turn, my turn!)
Five golden SCSI contacts (Great, just great! Now it won't
even boot!)
Four support calls (I don't have that package! How did I end
up with you!)
Three French users (I don't care if it is sexy, no more nude
screen backgrounds!)
Two transceiver failures (Maybe we should switch to token
ring...)
And a database with a broken b-tree (No, operator - Oslo,
Norway. We were just talking and were cut off...)

(http://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1882.txt)
by:
Bill Hancock, Ph.D.
Network-1 Software & Technology, Inc.
 
2012-06-10 05:52:53 PM

Eshkar: Generation_D: Eshkar: I think IT workers should unionize.

Jesus f*ck lord no.

I'm not anti raving union, but .. as a 17 year "tech" I can tell you this would be about as popular as if you took a dump on the nachos at happy hour.

As a 13 year veteran "tech" I think they should, especially when it comes to big corporations that fark over techs with small salaries (or shiaty hourly) with impossible work loads a collective voice would be nice.


You don't think they'd cashier all of you for even hinting at it and replacing all of you with kids fresh out of college who couldn't write five lines of code without giving themselves a nosebleed?
 
2012-06-10 05:55:31 PM

rohar: Eshkar: Generation_D: Eshkar: I think IT workers should unionize.

Jesus f*ck lord no.

I'm not anti raving union, but .. as a 17 year "tech" I can tell you this would be about as popular as if you took a dump on the nachos at happy hour.

As a 13 year veteran "tech" I think they should, especially when it comes to big corporations that fark over techs with small salaries (or shiaty hourly) with impossible work loads a collective voice would be nice.

It's almost legally impossible. Development exception in the FLSA takes it off the table.


Salaried workers can still legally join a union and strike. What they can't do is go back in time and prevent the glut of underskilled IT graduates ready to replace them at any time, or roll back the near-slave labor H1-B visa expansions. Much like Wal-Mart can fire every person at a store that unionizes and replace them within a week, a big company can pick up hundreds of starving techs and have a few consultants run the joint until full time hires come on board.

As you mentioned, it's all about keeping skills up to date, chasing fads and fundamentals alike. Techs would get more out of investing in themselves than in a union, though the really shy ones could use an advocate.
 
2012-06-10 06:15:57 PM

foxyshadis: though the really shy ones could use an advocate.


The incompetent ones, socially or intellectually, need to go to helpdesk. I have no patience or budget for them. As Brooks outlined, the difference between an average contributor and an excellent contributor is an order of magnitude. I have no patience for average.
 
2012-06-10 06:33:54 PM

rohar: foxyshadis: though the really shy ones could use an advocate.

The incompetent ones, socially or intellectually, need to go to helpdesk. I have no patience or budget for them. As Brooks outlined, the difference between an average contributor and an excellent contributor is an order of magnitude. I have no patience for average.


hmph... I'll take a socially inept computer geniuses over a dozen average ones any day.
 
2012-06-10 06:35:30 PM

CruJones: This is why hosting companies are projected to grow by like 20x in the next few years. Not crap like host gator or something, but real managed hosting.


This is where I jumped ship to. It just boggles my mind how IT departments are run especially when they'll throw $250k over a year at some contractor for some project and they laid off a guy at $70k salary who was more capable and could have done it in three months. They'll throw 10k/mo. for over a year on something they will never use, but we're supposedly out of our minds when we're trying to replace some seven year old laptops even though we have the budget approved for them.

The company has been on the path of destruction and even the CIO could care less about the IT department which handled the core product actually working. One day I realized I was on the Titanic and I was playing in the band; sorry, I don't want to be in the band on the Titanic. I jumped over to a Managed Services Provider (MSP) and we function as other company's IT departments. I don't think I'll ever go back to working for a non-MSP; like others have mentioned, they undervalue their IT staff, don't listen to recommendations, but still want everything to work.

/Thread has been a good reminder why I left that dump.
 
2012-06-10 06:48:47 PM

Eshkar: rohar: foxyshadis: though the really shy ones could use an advocate.

The incompetent ones, socially or intellectually, need to go to helpdesk. I have no patience or budget for them. As Brooks outlined, the difference between an average contributor and an excellent contributor is an order of magnitude. I have no patience for average.

hmph... I'll take a socially inept computer geniuses over a dozen average ones any day.


I'll take socially capable computer geniuses over that any day. Twice the output, only 20% more money. Settle if you must but excellent contributors reduces team size. Team size reduction increasses efficiency as communication cost is reduced by a square every time the headcount is cut in half.

All things being equal, nothing is equal.
 
2012-06-10 07:10:32 PM

rohar: It's all jargon and hardly a threat to any of our jobs.


Sorry, I just disagree. PAAS and SAAS are here to stay and will eat 30-50% of the IT jobs in the private sector, and shift spending significantly. The reason is that it's just a more viable financial model for non-critical IT. C-levels question capital expenditures presented by people who work for them. They don't question operational expenditures presented by external companies.

The way you protect yourself is to build a private utility computing infrastructure and start charging back to business as operational expense.
 
2012-06-10 09:12:48 PM

Sabyen91:

Can't go wrong in healthcare if you can handle it. Nurses rarely get downsized.


It has been heavily cut around these parts of NC. They fired all the experienced nurses that did all the training on the floor and replaced them with 60% of the number with straight out of college nurses with a combination of 2 year and 4 year degrees. Then when there is a screw up by doubling the patients per nurse to dangerous levels, the nurse gets sued and the hospital administrator gets a great big bonus for cutting staffing needs. After all, what hospital needs nurses with 30 years of experience when they can have someone who has a few semesters of college work behind them to do the task instead, even if they have the equivilency of only several weeks on the floor working.
 
2012-06-10 09:41:07 PM

PirateFuzzball: The company has been on the path of destruction and even the CIO could care less about the IT department which handled the core product actually working. One day I realized I was on the Titanic and I was playing in the band; sorry, I don't want to be in the band on the Titanic. I jumped over to a Managed Services Provider (MSP) and we function as other company's IT departments. I don't think I'll ever go back to working for a non-MSP; like others have mentioned, they undervalue their IT staff, don't listen to recommendations, but still want everything to work.


The problem with that is there is too much incentive for an MSP to treat its workers with disrespect - as they are contracting companies - since it pits two people against one worker.
 
2012-06-10 09:42:56 PM

Alonjar: His bosses then go: now what do we do with those people who lost their duties? Answer: lay them off, save money, the whole point of this. So what do they do? No, we find them jobs. New task for those people: audit the other departments processing of their lost duties. That's right... instead of completing the budget trimming, they now reprocess everything they have the other department to process. No lay offs or transfers at all.

farking government.


Better than the private sector, where they fark the worker to high heaven and not tell them until the last day for fear of retaliation.
 
2012-06-10 10:15:59 PM

slayer199: I don't have a VMware cert and I've been doing it for 5 years. You just need to get a gig that will get you the experience.


Yeah and that's the problem in my current situation. With a more realistic tech/user ratio I'd be able to work with the ops team on some server admin stuff and branch out on some of my own projects. As it is now, I have to put in a ton of OT just to keep up with most of my weekly workload, and the only exposure I get to more complex systems is account busywork the admins don't want to do.
 
2012-06-10 10:20:01 PM

bmr68: I shipped a dog for my girlfriends sister last month. The airline I used still had Windows 3.11 systems.


...Those exist? I thought Windows started counting at eight or so...
 
2012-06-10 10:31:15 PM

GoldSpider: slayer199: I don't have a VMware cert and I've been doing it for 5 years. You just need to get a gig that will get you the experience.

Yeah and that's the problem in my current situation. With a more realistic tech/user ratio I'd be able to work with the ops team on some server admin stuff and branch out on some of my own projects. As it is now, I have to put in a ton of OT just to keep up with most of my weekly workload, and the only exposure I get to more complex systems is account busywork the admins don't want to do.


There are technologies and methodologies that will allow you to complete your current workload in half the time. All you have to do is find them.

Time to find the bootstraps son.
 
2012-06-11 02:10:15 AM

GoldSpider: slayer199: I don't have a VMware cert and I've been doing it for 5 years. You just need to get a gig that will get you the experience.

Yeah and that's the problem in my current situation. With a more realistic tech/user ratio I'd be able to work with the ops team on some server admin stuff and branch out on some of my own projects. As it is now, I have to put in a ton of OT just to keep up with most of my weekly workload, and the only exposure I get to more complex systems is account busywork the admins don't want to do.


The best advice I can give you is work smarter, not harder. I script a lot. I document a lot so other people can do the same things. That frees up more time for fun stuff.
 
2012-06-11 08:02:56 AM

sethstorm: The problem with that is there is too much incentive for an MSP to treat its workers with disrespect - as they are contracting companies - since it pits two people against one worker.


In every sector, in every business model, there will be organizations willing to shiat on their employees. I'd agree with PirateFuzzball that you have a much better chance of getting a square deal from an MSP than from a private employer, for two reasons:

1. At an MSP, you have peers. Within direct employment or direct contracting, you often have very few if any peers. Even in sizable IT shops, you tend to only have one or two people that overlap with your job function. In little shops you might literally be the only IT person in the company.

This means that there are few if any, people there who can properly assess your talent and fair compensation for it. That's good if you're incompetent - I remember explaining traceroute to my boss back in the day and the look of wonderment in his eyes was priceless. I was a goddam wizard to him. But I knew that there was no way he could fairly assess how much I should be making.

2. At an MSP, you can develop. The major frustration I had with direct employment is lack of breadth of experience. You see the same shiat over and over again, and you have a difficult time developing unless you job-hop. A place that runs gaming backends is different than a financials shop which is different than a retailer, and it's really beneficial to see different sectors at work. My solution (before MSPs were popular) was to go to a reseller in order to gain that experience, but going to an MSP is definitely a valid option.
 
2012-06-11 01:54:22 PM

Babwa Wawa: In every sector, in every business model, there will be organizations willing to shiat on their employees. I'd agree with PirateFuzzball that you have a much better chance of getting a square deal from an MSP than from a private employer, for two reasons:

1. At an MSP, you have peers. Within direct employment or direct contracting, you often have very few if any peers. Even in sizable IT shops, you tend to only have one or two people that overlap with your job function. In little shops you might literally be the only IT person in the company.

This means that there are few if any, people there who can properly assess your talent and fair compensation for it. That's good if you're incompetent - I remember explaining traceroute to my boss back in the day and the look of wonderment in his eyes was priceless. I was a goddam wizard to him. But I knew that there was no way he could fairly assess how much I should be making.

With a fairly large employer I was with(think of one of the larger & privately held media conglomerates that does cable, ), I had no shortage of peers as a direct hire. I could bounce ideas around and have the better ones be implemented with a little . In addition, I didn't have the pressure of two parties on my back, just the company. Something goes wrong with an outside third party, they are likely to take it out on you via your immediate employer.

It is office politics taken to the next degree, and in a bad way for workers. There is a greater incentive with a contractor/MSP to mistreat workers, as there is an easier way to wash their hands clean of any misdeeds towards the worker - while there is no meaningful recourse for the worker.


2. At an MSP, you can develop. The major frustration I had with direct employment is lack of breadth of experience. You see the same shiat over and over again, and you have a difficult time developing unless you job-hop. A place that runs gaming backends is different than a financials shop which is different than a retailer, and it's really beneficial to see different sectors at work. My solution (before MSPs were popular) was to go to a reseller in order to gain that experience, but going to an MSP is definitely a valid option.

The same thing can happen with a large employer. That, and you don't need to really job-hop..

I'd rather take 30-40 years+ with various divisions of a large company across the world than to have to deal with precarious and indirect employment. One employer, plenty of job security, plenty of places to develop, and one company to answer to - your employer.

;
 
2012-06-11 01:54:38 PM
Shouldda been using Oracle, yummy, bloated Oracle.
 
2012-06-11 04:10:57 PM

sethstorm: With a fairly large employer I was with(think of one of the larger & privately held media conglomerates that does cable, ), I had no shortage of peers as a direct hire


I don't doubt that, but you have to be part of a large shop. SMB represents a large percentage of IT service spending. For those who do work in that space, they tend not to have a whole lot of peers around. It's stifling.

sethstorm: There is a greater incentive with a contractor/MSP to mistreat workers,


If you're running a bad MSP, sure, I can see that. But for those who want to be good at what they do (not just "body shops"), then there's a reduced incentive to mistreat workers, since the workers are the only asset you have. One of the top 3 gigs I've had in my whole career was working with a contracting shop.

sethstorm: The same thing can happen with a large employer.


I disagree with you here. A law firm is very different from a hospital, which is very different from a trading desk, which is very different from a library, which is very different from a manufacturer. Each will have very different needs and will set up their computing infrastructure in a very different way.

sethstorm: I'd rather take 30-40 years+ with various divisions of a large company across the world than to have to deal with precarious and indirect employment.


I can see the preference - especially if you're with the right employer.. I've found indirect employment to be far less precarious. You get contacts throughout industry, you generally get a broader base of experience, and the firm's revenue stream is diversified.
 
2012-06-11 09:01:59 PM

danceswithcrows: rohar: we used to call computer devices names like "master" and "slave". We don't anymore. Wonder what happened.

IDE was pretty much replaced by SATA, of course. Furrfu. Kids these days.

I have 2 IDE DVD+-RWs, which still work just fine....


I remember having to pay attention to the jumper settings and what part of the ribbon cable my IDE HDDs connected to whenever they needed replacement.

Vintage wine, yes. Oldies songs,yes. Vintage tech, never.
 
2012-06-11 09:02:23 PM

Babwa Wawa: I can see the preference - especially if you're with the right employer.. I've found indirect employment to be far less precarious. You get contacts throughout industry, you generally get a broader base of experience, and the firm's revenue stream is diversified.


The preference comes from that and the area(SW Ohio) having a deep history with large employers and directly-hired jobs. I've worked for one that's still in the area and lived next to another that did so (NCR - until AT&T acquired, eviscerated, and spun them off) as well. Contractorships just can't seem to really match in development/training, given their programs being worse than those backed by a decent-sized employer.

About the only aberration that exists is with government clearance work, where some employers do things that the normal private sector does not do. One example of this is where you're given the option to relocate or to fly weekly to/from the destination w/o cost. That, and the jobs have some inbuilt protection against offshoring.

It is a deep (and very actively maintained) preference. I simply don't believe it's impossible for mere mortals to have the extra long-term & direct-hire job with good benefits.


If you're running a bad MSP, sure, I can see that. But for those who want to be good at what they do (not just "body shops"), then there's a reduced incentive to mistreat workers, since the workers are the only asset you have. One of the top 3 gigs I've had in my whole career was working with a contracting shop.

The problem is that a bad MSP/contractor/bodyshop can exist and thrive given the 4:1 (candidate:job) ratio. While mistreatment can happen anywhere, it is even more amplified in places where the employer already has an advantage in 1:1(or an ultra-rare 1:4 independent of industry and skill level) times. The incentives just seem to not be in the favor of good indirect employment happening on any decent scale.

Good contractors are rare birds.
 
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