Vangor: ph0rk: Well, some place have common areas that need maintenance.

Common areas with associations are fine with me. Townhomes with associations are fine with me. I despise the individual units which do not share such areas, or when there are some services such as sprinkler systems those are not simply paid for but extra, tangential rules are attached.

I agree, but if looking for a detached house, good luck finding one sans-HOA that is also actually near civilization.

Ed Willy: You'll note the Tea Party has rarely raised a stink about HOAs, probably because they hope they can return to the old-school neighborhood covenants keeping certain "undesirables" from purchasing property.

And the streak continues! To date I have been immensely amused by every sentence I've encountered that includes "Tea Party" and "probably". But usually not in the way it was intended to amuse me.

Draw on your own shiat? I'm all about fark the hoa's, but, really, just draw on your own shiat. Not everyone likes finding pictures of pee-pees and wee-wees on their sidewalks.

It's a cute little kid drawing flowers. HOA are good until the crazies get in charge.

Vangor: ph0rk: I agree, but if looking for a detached house, good luck finding one sans-HOA that is also actually near civilization.

And we come full circle to: "Why don't Republicans pushing "right-to-work" laws also push "right-to- live" laws that let you buy a house without joining the HOA?" :)

Because the HOAs wouldn't work if that were the case. People with money like HOAs.

Besides, an HOA is the localist government there is. Don't like it? Join the board and change it.

Vangor: jayphat: Ed Willy: jayphat: Oh you bought a house in a HOA? This is how many farks I give.........

Why don't Republicans pushing "right-to-work" laws also push "right-to- live" laws that let you buy a house without joining the HOA?

Holy Fark. As someone who leans conservative, why the fark have I NEVER thought of that?

This is a rather awesome idea, actually.

I lean left and I agree.

Vangor: ph0rk: Because the HOAs wouldn't work if that were the case. People with money like HOAs.

Oh, I am not saying this would ever happen until we are rebuilding civilization, just fantasizing.

Well, the point I was making was the the republicans pushing "right to work" laws are the same individual humans that like HOAs.

Vangor: Common areas with associations are fine with me. Townhomes with associations are fine with me. I despise the individual units which do not share such areas, or when there are some services such as sprinkler systems those are not simply paid for but extra, tangential rules are attached.

Local governments are generally refusing to pay for roads and lights and detention ponds and whatnot these days so those things become common areas under the HOA.

Of course, anti-union laws are often mistakenly called "right to work" laws. Not sure there'd be any difference with above, other than to say that anti-union law supporters are worse than draconian HOA boards.

bojon: I remember when Stapleton was an airport surrounded by ghettos.

I have fond memories of stopping by that crazy trucker diner with the coffee pot-shaped sign just off the Stapleton exit for greasy breakfast before my flight. And the floor tiles that were exactly the same "mixed color vomit" shade as the tiles of my elementary school. Good times, good times...

12349876: Vangor: Common areas with associations are fine with me. Townhomes with associations are fine with me. I despise the individual units which do not share such areas, or when there are some services such as sprinkler systems those are not simply paid for but extra, tangential rules are attached.

Local governments are generally refusing to pay for roads and lights and detention ponds and whatnot these days so those things become common areas under the HOA.

It is a small step (or three) from HOA to incorporated town. It's just a small, localized government.

HOAs do not have to grandfather changes no matter how long the old rule was in effect.
HOAs are not bound by the US Constitution as long as their rules are "reasonable."
HOAs can foreclose on you.
HOAs do not have to have open meetings.
HOAs drag things out in court because they're doing it with your money.
Fee-simple ownership does not mean they can't control what you do on your property.
Zoning Boards and Planning Commissions tend, in my experience, to side with the HOA.
Building Departments will (illegally) require a permission letter before they issue a building permit.

I lived under one once - it was my first house - back when HOAs were just getting started in New Jersey. By the time I left, 20 years latter, they were gunning for me - and I knew they would eventually win.

Ed Willy: ph0rk: Vangor: jayphat: Ed Willy: jayphat: Oh you bought a house in a HOA? This is how many farks I give.........

Why don't Republicans pushing "right-to-work" laws also push "right-to- live" laws that let you buy a house without joining the HOA?

Holy Fark. As someone who leans conservative, why the fark have I NEVER thought of that?

This is a rather awesome idea, actually.

Seems to me to be as likely to undermine right-to-work support as to undermine HOAs.

People like those things, they really do.

Not all HOAs are terrible. I lived in a neighborhood that had a (voluntary) neighborhood association that existed mostly to fundraise for the local elementary school, throw the occasional block party, and make sure the streets were paved. The one big complaint about private property was getting the city to demolish an abandoned bakery, which helped get the Neighborhood association president elected to city council.

HOAs, like democracy, are really awesome when tell other people what to do... and OMGFASCIZM when they tell you what to do.

/the real problem is the incredible number of precious snowflakes that implode in a fit of drama whenever anyone says "no" to them
//living in a civilized society means you don't always get what you want

Lost_in_Oregon: HOAs do not have to grandfather changes no matter how long the old rule was in effect.
HOAs are not bound by the US Constitution as long as their rules are "reasonable."
HOAs can foreclose on you.
HOAs do not have to have open meetings.
HOAs drag things out in court because they're doing it with your money.
Fee-simple ownership does not mean they can't control what you do on your property.
Zoning Boards and Planning Commissions tend, in my experience, to side with the HOA.
Building Departments will (illegally) require a permission letter before they issue a building permit.

I lived under one once - it was my first house - back when HOAs were just getting started in New Jersey. By the time I left, 20 years latter, they were gunning for me - and I knew they would eventually win.

You already live in an HOA if you live in a town or city or county or state. Eminent domain.

Sidewalk chalk is nasty evil stuff that sticks to your shoes and ends up on the carpet. Let them paint an interior wall with blackboard paint to give the kid a place to express her creativity without being a PITA to everyone else.

Ed Willy: jayphat: Oh you bought a house in a HOA? This is how many farks I give.........

Why don't Republicans pushing "right-to-work" laws also push "right-to- live" laws that let you buy a house without joining the HOA?

how does not joining the HOA increase profits for Republican congressional shareholders

I hate HOAs like everyone else, which is why my first question when looking to buy was is it an HOA. Can't say I'm surprised by this story. If you don't like someone telling you what to do, don't buy in an HOA.

ph0rk: You already live in an HOA if you live in a town or city or county or state. Eminent domain.

They can condemn your house too, though the governments standards are generally much, much lower than an HOA.

What sort of bitter, evil twat has a problem with kids drawing in chalk on the pavement?

I've read that fewer than 20% of Americans live under HOAs, and I've never seen a serious assertion that they're more popular with Democrats or Republicans. All joking aside, if anybody has evidence either way I'd love to learn--give a link, please. I don't mean to be a dick, I'm just looking for facts... In the absence of facts I definitely will continue to enjoy the broad assertions we've already seen.

kthnx

swahnhennessy: What sort of bitter, evil twat has a problem with kids drawing in chalk on the pavement?

HOAs get crackpot complaints constantly. Your crazy neighbor? if you have an HOA, they call/email/write about every single thing you do.

If you don't have an HOA, they're just calling the police, instead.

12349876: ph0rk: You already live in an HOA if you live in a town or city or county or state. Eminent domain.

They can condemn your house too, though the governments standards are generally much, much lower than an HOA.

HOAs do not have such power, they cannot take your property for their use. A city can take it, but never heard of one doing it without trying to negotiate first, plus the usual reason is streets, sidewalks, roundabouts, etc.

Maybe you mean easements.

Vangor: 12349876: Local governments are generally refusing to pay for roads and lights and detention ponds and whatnot these days so those things become common areas under the HOA.

In which the rules which focus on common areas are fine when everyone in the area should be paying for the common area. The problem is when additional rules such as no advertising on vehicles or length of grass starts entering in.

Some HOAs are established at the time a large chunk of land is turned into a development to protect the long term value of the land parcels.

That's the owner(s) of the giant as chunk of land making the call there - they own, they get to make it HOA only if they wish before selling lots. It's pretty rare (but not unheard of) for an HOA to emerge out of nowhere in a non-HOA neighborhood, and it probably wouldn't have grass length rules and such if it did.

Lost_in_Oregon: 12349876: ph0rk: You already live in an HOA if you live in a town or city or county or state. Eminent domain.

They can condemn your house too, though the governments standards are generally much, much lower than an HOA.

HOAs do not have such power, they cannot take your property for their use. A city can take it, but never heard of one doing it without trying to negotiate first, plus the usual reason is streets, sidewalks, roundabouts, etc.

Maybe you mean easements.

An HOA can (if its charter is worded right) foreclose on you if you don't maintain your land properly and/or violate the rules often enough.

While the motivation for eminent domain is different the result is the same: your place, gone.

/Well, the state will pay you, but IIRC you'll get some cash from the sale in a foreclosure, too.

If you hate HOA's so much, then simply don't buy in a HOA neighborhood... pretty damn simple really.

In any city you can find nice areas with HOA's, nice areas without HOA's, not so nice areas with HOA's, and not so nice areas without HOA's.

HOAs do not bother me at all.

Neither does AIDs, rattlesnakes, or heroin, since I know how to stay away from all four!

The Big H: If you hate HOA's so much, then simply don't buy in a HOA neighborhood... pretty damn simple really.

In any city you can find nice areas with HOA's, nice areas without HOA's, not so nice areas with HOA's, and not so nice areas without HOA's.

It is pretty hard to find "starter" homes that are near stuff, non HOA, and non shiatty, at least in fast-growing cities.

ph0rk: Lost_in_Oregon: 12349876: ph0rk:

An HOA can (if its charter is worded right) foreclose on you if you don't maintain your land properly and/or violate the rules often enough.

While the motivation for eminent domain is different the result is the same: your place, gone.

/Well, the state will pay you, but IIRC you'll get some cash from the sale in a foreclosure, too.

Yes they can. But the process is fine, place lien for nonpayment, foreclose. In the states I've lived in small amount forclosures go nowhere unless you're a municipal governemnt.

Of course, some HOAs have fine policies that let they fine "whatever they deem necessary to ensure compliance" with a repeat offender.

Louisiana_Sitar_Club:
I lived in a condo with an HOA for almost two years and I would never ever to it again. I put up a basketball hoop for my kid and the next morning the president of the HOA knocked on my door. When I opened up he pushed past me, kicked over a lamp and sodomized the porcelain dalmatian that I keep next to my fire place. Then he ate all of my left over Pasta Roni. There is something seriously wrong with those people.

I read that as YOU sodomized HIM with the porcelain dalmatian, and I was like, "hell, I'd pay my fees just for a crack at doing that to an HOA official once in a while".

The only legitimate purpose HOAs have is covered under management/maintenance of common areas that are not publicly owned; if there's a private park or the like, or they pay for their own snow clearing for everyone in the community, road and driveways and sidewalks.

They have zero business whatsoever making any "regulations" about private property use in any way. They should not have the authority to say "boo" if I park 4 work trucks in my driveway, if I paint my house neon pink with green roofing and accents, if I let my lawn go "wild", etc.

Those things are covered under city bylaw. If it's not illegal according to city bylaw, you can fark right off. If it is, we don't need the HOA for that in the first place.

The ONLY reason for laws about lawn length or paint colors or what you can park in your driveway is busybodies who want to get in touch with their inner fascist.

FARK that noise.

Let the kid be a kid. Creative drawing at that age is a wonderful thing.

The last time I wrote in chalk on the sidewalk I wrote "Go to Hel". My father was pissed, wanting to know where I'd learned those words. I said I had heard mommy say it to him last night. That saved my ass.

/5yo

I'm not into HOAs but I have to say if you live in an area with a 'common' area, why would you encourage your kid to do their thing in that particular area? Don't you have a patio/porch/garden/etc in your space to let your kid do his or her thing?

Not to mention that okay, maybe you thought people would think it's cute what your kid was doing. But now you know you are annoying people. Why not stop?

Used to live in neighborhood with an HOA. Was actually on the board for a while - you know, to be a good neighborhood and help out and stuff like that.

Then I realized I was in cahoots with some of the pettiest, most mean-spirited people I'd ever met. So I quit.

Later called to give a deposition when the HOA was sued (though truth be told, the homeowner in question WAS being a jerk about that particular issue). I told the court just exactly what I thought of the whole deal.

We're now blissfully HOA free. We occasionally miss having some oversight when our redneck neighbors don't mow for weeks on end, but generally it's good riddance.

Little shaits drawing on sidewalks are the very reason we need HOAs. The next thing will be the kid tagging neighbors houses with spray paint and the whole neighborhood will become a ghetto
Note: Please check your sarcasm meter, it should be pegged to the max.

swahnhennessy: What sort of bitter, evil twat has a problem with kids drawing in chalk on the pavement?

This.

Thorak: hey have zero business whatsoever making any "regulations" about private property use in any way.

If you have 10 acres out in the boonies, fine.

However, if I can see your magenta door and fusca shutters from my front steps, it bothers me.

It seems absurd, but some people in small 1/4 acre lot neighborhoods do some crazy, hideous things to their houses, and that affects the property value of their neighbors.

/This is why I like condos.

Alwysadydrmr: swahnhennessy: What sort of bitter, evil twat has a problem with kids drawing in chalk on the pavement?

This.

Someone who is unable to bear children. Just a guess.

Thorak: The only legitimate purpose HOAs have is covered under management/maintenance of common areas that are not publicly owned; if there's a private park or the like, or they pay for their own snow clearing for everyone in the community, road and driveways and sidewalks.

They have zero business whatsoever making any "regulations" about private property use in any way. They should not have the authority to say "boo" if I park 4 work trucks in my driveway, if I paint my house neon pink with green roofing and accents, if I let my lawn go "wild", etc.

Those things are covered under city bylaw. If it's not illegal according to city bylaw, you can fark right off. If it is, we don't need the HOA for that in the first place.

The ONLY reason for laws about lawn length or paint colors or what you can park in your driveway is busybodies who want to get in touch with their inner fascist.

The whole idea behind the HOA is that the place be made better for everyone..they've been around for a while but we've only started hearing about them in the recent economic downturn. Why? Property values. If someone can poopsock and min/max their way to a higher property value, they're going to do it. If someone on WoW will raid 12 hours a day for six months to get an item with three more stamina than what they have on it, they'll work 12 hours a day for six months to make their property values go up a few grand. The goal in this case is to have a neighborhood that looks like one of those artist conception paintings of development projects...which is pretty much impossible to do if the houses are lived in but it doesn't stop them from trying.

Basically they sit around and think of things that might offend or put someone off and ban all those things. They've gone from things like burning car frames sitting in the middle of the road all the way up to telling you which of the two strains of exotic grass you're allowed to have in your yard and to regulate the color of your outdoor water spigots by season. I actually predict there'll be a landmark case where a HOA is able to tell someone what they are and aren't allowed to do in their own home and win, sparking a bunch of HOAs to regulate your life down to what cereals are allowed and what the bedroom dress code is to be. Don't think they won't do it if they had the chance.

Thrakkerzog: Alwysadydrmr: swahnhennessy: What sort of bitter, evil twat has a problem with kids drawing in chalk on the pavement?

This.

Someone who is unable to bear children. Just a guess.

Who knows - I've heard of people complaining about outdoor cats peeing under their windows (in a condo!)

People are insane. Some of them have the HOA phone number.

So people actually have to take HOA seriously? I was a bored kid in white suburbia. We vandalized and played every dumb game there is on our neighborhood. HOA hated us, they kind of had a creepy obsession with talking about us at every meeting after a while. Our parents never admitted that we were theirs. There were never ramifications for our actions. But I guess we were kids.

SYG vs. HOA....who will win?


(no one)

Hrist: Don't think they won't do it if they had the chance.

"We shall have lots of rules!"


Of course, the solution most people first suggest to any malfunctioning bureaucracy is more rules.


Branbot: So people actually have to take HOA seriously? I was a bored kid in white suburbia. We vandalized and played every dumb game there is on our neighborhood. HOA hated us, they kind of had a creepy obsession with talking about us at every meeting after a while. Our parents never admitted that we were theirs. There were never ramifications for our actions. But I guess we were kids.

If the HOA chooses to, they can fine your ass. That shiat is actionable, no matter how retarded the reason for the fine, assuming it is in line with their charter.