Best health care in the world.

FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

I've been watching too much Metalocalypse and I'm just envisioning the operating room. "Woops" GUSH SPLASH

/And that's after just watching some episodes my DVR had gathered. I'm about to just go buy the damned DVD's.

Oh, I see. By 'pound sand', you mean 'pound sand up his ass'.

Mulligan

About time to call a lawyer, I'm not normally for playing the "litto lotto", but this guy got screwed 7 ways to Sunday

It's not like they failed to de-liver.

Death_Poot: About time to call a lawyer, I'm not normally for playing the "litto lotto", but this guy got screwed 7 ways to Sunday

I'd agree...normally I'm not one for lawsuits, but if anyone deserves to have one in his favor, I think it's this guy and his family...

Descending Aorta goes straight to the bread basket. Kidney is just behind the spare ribs.

"Pounding sand" sounds like a great way to chafe one's penis.

It's not just they cut the aorta, but that they damaged the kidney as well.

So I have questions:

1. What would a doctor do after severing the descending aorta that would screw up the kidney? Bad cut? Medication?

2. There are two kidneys in most people, can a left be swapped for a right? Or does it have to be left to left, right to right when they are rotated?

3. How did they screw up both kidneys?

4. Who else in the hospital got a needed transplant that day?

Profit driven "healthcare" strikes again.

Ed Finnerty: "Pounding sand" sounds like a great way to chafe one's penis.

[That's the joke]

Rozinante: Ed Finnerty: "Pounding sand" sounds like a great way to chafe one's penis.

[That's the joke]

I was under the impression it referred to pounding with one's feet.

why is article all blacked out?

Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone. Christ, these guys value their "winning percentage" more than anyone else in the world... Not to mention, they don't go around severing aortas for fun.

Oh com on.

Who hasn't had to uninstall + reinstall something, broken it in the process, used the wrong part, or otherwise totally screwed up the job?

Just last week I was rough framing a closet door, and only after the fact remembered that it was a *pocket* door, not the hinged kind. I had to saw out brand-new framing I had just completed and add a new double-width header. Cost me something like $17 in new lumber and two hours to fix.

These things happen people. Lighten up already.


(disclaimer: my degree is in computer science, not general contracting)

Molavian: Go in and kill the hospital administrators. Plenty of organs for everyone.

Yeah, but they are all tainted...

It's unacceptable that they killed that woman on the operating table.

/do no harm

well th-aorta seen that coming.

Ed Finnerty: Rozinante: Ed Finnerty: "Pounding sand" sounds like a great way to chafe one's penis.

[That's the joke]

I was under the impression it referred to pounding with one's feet.

You use your feet? Kinky.

I'm currently working on my nursing degree, so I have taken an insane amount of Anatomy/Pathophysiology with human cadavers included. And I'm having trouble understanding how someone accidentally severes an aorta. That is kind of like taking out a small pocket knife to cut the little wire tag off of a new hose and accidentally slicing through the hose it self. So unless they were opening her up with a farking axe....I'm not seeing how this happened.

/Also, there is no way of mistaking the descending aorta with the renal vessels.

I think we need to put organ donation on the open market. I bet we could clear the bulk of the waiting list in a year if you could simply pay somebody for a kidney.

DrPainMD: FTA: "The hospital told the family that it had not yet gotten the necessary federal approval for Medina to leapfrog over others on the list."

Fark the feds. It's none of their business who gives a kidney to whom. If the purpose of the military is to defend this country, why isn't it attacking Washington?

It's socially unacceptable to use violent force against a group of people with deficient brain function. You are just supposed to look at them and feel bad.

Nothing a 4" piece of 3/4" sch. 40 PVC and a couple of hose clamps couldn't have fixed.

All of these can be obtained in the "organ transplant" aisle at your local Home Depot.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Hospital kills woman trying to donate kidney to her brother, then tells brother to pound sand "Hey! We found you another kidney and you'll be bumped to the top of the list, because we have so much compassion for you! LOL j/k the Feds say there's no such thing as compassionate exemption. No kidney for you.

Soooo.. were cool, right?

Probably more along the lines of "This is your bill"

KrispyKritter: holy crap the sister got it the worse. a loving charitable act got her killed. it doesn't even say if they used any of her organs to benefit other patients.

They're not allowed to, too much chance of some corrupt doctor "accidentally" killing live donors to get multiple organs instead of just the one being donated.

/not allowed to know if the patient is really an organ donor until they die, for the same reason

Death_Poot: About time to call a lawyer, I'm not normally for playing the "litto lotto", but this guy got screwed 7 ways to Sunday

Under the new Republican-friendly "tort reform" laws, he'd be entitied to no more than anyone with, say, a mysterious "pain all over that's making my life unbearable" or "my failed treatment turned me into a lesbian nympho" - i.e. $250K lifetime.

Keep that in mind when "business-friendly tort reform" is discussed.

Is it possible they were putting a main line in her neck (for IV) and that is when they cut the aorta? My Wife had a transplant and got a main line. Not sure if that went in the aorta or not. I'm a geographer, not a... err... body mapping guy.

Inchoate: This guy and Yolanda's family deserve enough malpractice-lawsuit moolah to eat caviar off lingerie models on a private jet to Tahiti every day of their lives.

Your jib.

The cut of it is pleasing to me.

The_Fuzz: Is it possible they were putting a main line in her neck (for IV) and that is when they cut the aorta? My Wife had a transplant and got a main line. Not sure if that went in the aorta or not. I'm a geographer, not a... err... body mapping guy.

Only if their compass is sitting on a magnet... Veins =/= arteries

How is it this guy and his sister's family dont't own that hospital

In other words...

Inchoate: This guy and Yolanda's family deserve enough malpractice-lawsuit moolah to eat caviar off lingerie models on a private jet to Tahiti every day of their lives.

This.

MorrisBird: I don't think the hospital administrators thought their cunning cutting plan all the way through.

Link

Oui?

Bad enough that they cut her aorta while going for her kidney, but that they couldn't then even save it? They take those things off dead people all the time, yet they're unable to do so on a woman they've just killed. The kidney is right there. Heck, there's another one on the other side.

Hope someone enjoyed sis' kidney ... with fava beans and a nice chianti.

The_Fuzz: Is it possible they were putting a main line in her neck (for IV) and that is when they cut the aorta? My Wife had a transplant and got a main line. Not sure if that went in the aorta or not. I'm a geographer, not a... err... body mapping guy.

Not really. That's called a "central line", and goes into the internal jugular vein or the subclavian vein in the chest. Its technically a possibility, but an exceedingly rare complication to put that into the aorta.

Its almost impossible to really speculate on what happened because of the myriad possibilities - there definitely could be malpractice, but we certainly have no way of knowing at this point.

Jeeze, don't be so damn cheap. Just get in your jet and jet over to China a BUY one. Isn't that the way it's done? Oh, not a 1%er? Sorry. Life's short buddy



can't stand it much longer sorry

swahnhennessy: Bad enough that they cut her aorta while going for her kidney, but that they couldn't then even save it? They take those things off dead people all the time, yet they're unable to do so on a woman they've just killed. The kidney is right there. Heck, there's another one on the other side.

Cadaveric kidneys don't come from "dead" people in the cold and lying on the side of the road style as much as "dead" people with non-existant brain function in otherwise functioning bodies. An aortic tear can cause a rapid loss of blood pressure and therefore blood flow to the kidneys; In a live donor, repairing the aortic injury takes priority over the kidney procedure before the "live" donor becomes "cadaveric". The kidneys have a limited ischemic time (how long they will live without blood flow) before they become useless.

haemaker: Typical private healthcare system...

It was the public hospital in the Bronx's not a private funded hospital.

vpb: At least it wasn't socialized medicine.

Obviously doctors no longer give a shiat about providing quality care because they know in 18 months Obamacare will kick in. We all know whose fault this is.

Not surprised at all. From my experiences with hospitals, I refuse to go anymore unless I feel I'm next door to death (internal organs in my lap, bleeding from eyes, severed limbs, etc.). At that point I really don't care any more if I live or die so if the useless monkeys screw up and off me, fark it.

Nabb1: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

{cough}{cough}teaching hospital{cough}

Hey, we have to train doctors somehow. And you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs...


They cut out her ovaries too?

Hawnkee: Not surprised at all. From my experiences with hospitals, I refuse to go anymore unless I feel I'm next door to death (internal organs in my lap, bleeding from eyes, severed limbs, etc.). At that point I really don't care any more if I live or die so if the useless monkeys screw up and off me, fark it.


Hospitals are the most popular place to die.

DrPainMD: FTA: "The hospital told the family that it had not yet gotten the necessary federal approval for Medina to leapfrog over others on the list."

Fark the feds. It's none of their business who gives a kidney to whom. If the purpose of the military is to defend this country, wy isn't it attacking Washington?

Then who's decision is it? You can choose to donate your kidney to whoever you want, but if you are an organ donor and due then someone's got to make the choice. The screw UPS here are all on the hospital. They killed his sister and then promised him something they couldn't deliver in hopes of not being sued.

Its not the feds job to make up for dr's fark UPS

Inchoate: This guy and Yolanda's family deserve enough malpractice-lawsuit moolah to eat caviar off lingerie models on a private jet to Tahiti every day of their lives.

And so exactly how much money would you take from this non-profit teaching hospital with the .1% fatality rate on risky organ removals? And how are you going to identify and compensate the people who will die during their current suspension of the program and those who might die if they curtail or eliminate it?

What happened to this family is awful, and they should be compensated. But let's keep in mind that the people on the other side aren't some chop shop duping people into getting kidney transplants and covering up how bad they are at it. They're Montefiore, one of the best hospital systems on the planet and a non-profit to boot.

davin: swahnhennessy: Bad enough that they cut her aorta while going for her kidney, but that they couldn't then even save it? They take those things off dead people all the time, yet they're unable to do so on a woman they've just killed. The kidney is right there. Heck, there's another one on the other side.

Cadaveric kidneys don't come from "dead" people in the cold and lying on the side of the road style as much as "dead" people with non-existant brain function in otherwise functioning bodies. An aortic tear can cause a rapid loss of blood pressure and therefore blood flow to the kidneys; In a live donor, repairing the aortic injury takes priority over the kidney procedure before the "live" donor becomes "cadaveric". The kidneys have a limited ischemic time (how long they will live without blood flow) before they become useless.

I was going to guess something along the same lines: Having made a critical life-threatening mistake, their first and only priority was keeping her alive, not ensuring the kidneys would be transplantable.

I don't even know what to say. That is one of the most brutal ways I've ever seen somebody getting their life completely and utterly unnecessarily ruined.
Personally, that is a cheap shot I don't think I could overcome.

The hospital has to at least be responsible for the emotional games after his sister's murder.

Manfred J. Hattan:
What happened to this family is awful, and they should be compensated. But let's keep in mind that the people on the other side aren't some chop shop duping people into getting kidney transplants and covering up how bad they are at it. They're Montefiore, one of the best hospital systems on the planet and a non-profit to boot.

Yeah, they're Montefiore, who couldn't remove a kidney from a heathy woman without killing her, destroying both her kidneys and lying to her brother about how they were going to push him to the front of the line.

GO MONTEFIORE!

Wait a second... You're an idiot.

wildcardjack: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

I've been watching too much Metalocalypse and I'm just envisioning the operating room. "Woops" GUSH SPLASH

/And that's after just watching some episodes my DVR had gathered. I'm about to just go buy the damned DVD's.

"Acoustic guitars is for grandpas and dildos." -Skwisgar

Why do I suspect your error rate in life generally is several orders of magnitude higher than Montefiore's is at the highly risky matter of removing an organ from a live donor.

Pound sand? Should have told his to piss off.

why isn't this guy's medical history reported on within the story? I'm not incredibly familiar with organ donation ; but, i would imagine the reason for him having kidney problems would be relevant to the story.

Why do we pay the most for less than average health care?

The rest of the world mocks us for good reason.

namatad: Paris1127: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

[www.genesis-ultrasound.com image 400x320]
I'm not a doctor, but the descending aorta appears to be somewhat close to both kidneys... That being said, that's quite the slip up...

on the other hand, from that picture, the descending aorta is GIGANTIC.

Yes it is. You could say it's kind of hard to miss.

Though to be fair, they didn't miss it.

Saw an article on this story with headline something like "Donor Mom Dies on Operating Table". Can someone explain to me why they kept referring to her throughout the story as "mom" this and "mom" that. She wasn't trying to donate to her kid, she was trying to donate to her sibling. What the fark does her uterine status have to do with it? Does brother have kids? Why aren't we hearing about him as "Dad Still Needs Kidney" or whatever.

I don't really understand why news articles always hype the mom status. The only other time you see that kind of thing is "mental patient runs amok" or "mental patient wins prize despite drool" or whatever.

In other news, the hospital has quietly ended their "take your child to work day" program.

studebaker hoch:
Just last week I was rough framing a closet door, and only after the fact remembered that it was a *pocket* door, not the hinged kind. I had to saw out brand-new framing I had just completed and add a new double-width header. Cost me something like $17 in new lumber and two hours to fix.

Don't take this as an insult, but that sounds like exactly the sort of carpentry I would expect from a computer scientist.

catonacid:
I don't even know what to say. That is one of the most brutal ways I've ever seen somebody getting their life completely and utterly unnecessarily ruined.

It does sound like an emotional roller coaster on par with watching your family slaughtered by a militia and then being robbed blind on the way to the refugee camp. And this dude could still die or go bankrupt fighting his kidney disease, after all this.

DrPainMD: FTA: "The hospital told the family that it had not yet gotten the necessary federal approval for Medina to leapfrog over others on the list."

Fark the feds. It's none of their business who gives a kidney to whom. If the purpose of the military is to defend this country, why isn't it attacking Washington?

Davin: It's socially unacceptable to use violent force against a group of people with deficient brain function. You are just supposed to look at them and feel bad.

Wait, what?! I thought we were supposed to point and laugh. Damn it, I must have missed the memo.

PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone.


Of course that's true but in every job and profession there are those prone to mistakes because they just fail at communication in all forms coming and going...you want to strangle these people. My first instinct is that the 'complications' you often hear about can be traced back to just such a nimrod...if not the surgeon himself then someone else in the loop.

My sqeedlyspooch!

Freud's Cigar:
Saw an article on this story with headline something like "Donor Mom Dies on Operating Table". Can someone explain to me why they kept referring to her throughout the story as "mom" this and "mom" that. She wasn't trying to donate to her kid, she was trying to donate to her sibling. What the fark does her uterine status have to do with it? Does brother have kids? Why aren't we hearing about him as "Dad Still Needs Kidney" or whatever.

I don't really understand why news articles always hype the mom status. The only other time you see that kind of thing is "mental patient runs amok" or "mental patient wins prize despite drool" or whatever.

Calm down there Mr. Cigar. There is the added awfulness that their prize pig of a medical fark-up killed not only someone's sister, but some poor kids' mom. I'd say it's salient due to the sheer amount of trauma caused.

haemaker: Typical private healthcare system...

Yeah. Liberals. They should stay out of the business.

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

cretinbob: Private payer insurance sure is great, isn't it?

Take a guess at who pays for dialysis after the first few weeks and for kidney transplants even when the patient has private insurance. Go ahead, guess.

No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

Nabb1: Hey, we have to train doctors somehow. And you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs...

But look what happened to the cook!

No Such Agency

studebaker hoch:
Just last week I was rough framing a closet door, and only after the fact remembered that it was a *pocket* door, not the hinged kind. I had to saw out brand-new framing I had just completed and add a new double-width header. Cost me something like $17 in new lumber and two hours to fix.

Don't take this as an insult, but that sounds like exactly the sort of carpentry I would expect from a computer scientist.

None taken.

/I wonder what kind of code I would get if I hired a framing crew to write C++?

KimNorth: haemaker: Typical private healthcare system...

It was the public hospital in the Bronx's not a private funded hospital.

Montefiore is non-profit, but it's not public. The public hospital in the neighborhood is North Central Bronx Hospital.

My family's experience with teaching hospitals, Montefiore included, has been decidedly mixed. In the NY Metro area, I would go to New York Presbyterian first, followed by NYU or St. Luke's. Montefiore was meh. I wouldn't set foot in Nassau University Medical Center ever again.

One of my own doctors told me I should always try to get released from a teaching hospital as quickly as possible, to minimize the chance of being some intern's or resident's mistake. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I think I'd rather follow that advice. Of course, that doesn't help if the mistake happens while you're undergoing a procedure...

I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

studebaker hoch: I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

Spare part babies. Don't people already do this for sick children?

The hospital promised something with the second transplant attempt that does not exist. You do not get to jump over people in the UNOS lists for reasons of compassion, money, power, or anything else; it is based solely on medical need. UNOS is set up that way very deliberately due to the inability of humans to be able to prioritize a list like that without any sort of bias, and the accusations that inevitably arise whenever someone with any celebrity status gets a donated organ.

A hospital saying that they can override the UNOS list is like a colonel saying he can override orders from the President. In both cases they get smashed down like the wrath of God. That hospital had better bend over backwards settling out of court when the lawsuits hit.

PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone. Christ, these guys value their "winning percentage" more than anyone else in the world... Not to mention, they don't go around severing aortas for fun.

Yes, but this is sort of an impressive fark-up...

/How the hell did they get there? Is there a prize for that sort of thing?

Mini Ditka: That sucks bad that he's not getting a kidney, especially under the circumstances. But the real story here is, that hospital is about to write a check that will make Rodney King say "GODDAMN, HOW MUCH??!!!"

That he can enjoy while on dialysis, I assume.

ph0rk: studebaker hoch: I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

Spare part babies. Don't people already do this for sick children?

Savior Siblings. For some reason this horrifies me.

namegoeshere: ph0rk: studebaker hoch: I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

Spare part babies. Don't people already do this for sick children?

Savior Siblings. For some reason this horrifies me.

Yes, of course - I like the term spare part babies better, though.

Somehow this is semi-legal, but not so for the parents? I wonder why that is.

No Such Agency: Freud's Cigar:

Calm down there Mr. Cigar. There is the added awfulness that their prize pig of a medical fark-up killed not only someone's sister, but some poor kids' mom. I'd say it's salient due to the sheer amount of trauma caused.

Sorry. I still don't get it. Donor Wife Dies, Donor Daughter Dies, Donor Sister Dies, Donor Taxpayer Dies, Donor Coworker Dies, Donor Best Friend Dies, you get the picture. I'm not saying her kids won't be devastated, I just don't get why popping out kids is the benchmark in this story and so many others.

Or is it just that "mom" has three letters and fits in better--takes up less space.

Frankly, if I had ever had kids, I'd hate to see my definition summed up simply in my reproductive history.

Montefiore killed my father-in-law, so I'm getting a kick etc... But at least they didn't forget to bill for the "treatment".

Mini Ditka: ph0rk: Mini Ditka: That sucks bad that he's not getting a kidney, especially under the circumstances. But the real story here is, that hospital is about to write a check that will make Rodney King say "GODDAMN, HOW MUCH??!!!"

That he can enjoy while on dialysis, I assume.


As well as her 3 motherless kids.....

He's still going to die. Somehow I figure that's probably foremost in his mind.

Freud's Cigar:
Or is it just that "mom" has three letters and fits in better--takes up less space.

It has a lot of impact to parents, who make up a significant % of the newspaper's readers and are inevitably wracked with worries about what would happen to their kids if...

Also it is short.

Death_Poot: About time to call a lawyer, I'm not normally for playing the "litto lotto", but this guy got screwed 7 ways to Sunday

Not that he wasn't screwed over, but I'm not sure what he could sue them for.

I don't think he could sue over his sister's death. He hasn't per se lost anything because of her death, unless she was financially supporting him. I can't imagine a 'you killed my family member, pay me for my sad feelings' suit going far.

Can he sue over the fact he was told he was bumped up the list and then turned out he couldn't be? I dunno, that's a pretty low threshold for suing.

Maybe he could sue over the fact that killing his sister deprived him of his kidney, and therefore may have killed him if he can't get back up the list in time.

No Such Agency: Freud's Cigar:
Or is it just that "mom" has three letters and fits in better--takes up less space.

It has a lot of impact to parents, who make up a significant % of the newspaper's readers and are inevitably wracked with worries about what would happen to their kids if...

Also it is short.

So... Think of the children?

Evenbiggerknickers: Nabb1: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

{cough}{cough}teaching hospital{cough}

Hey, we have to train doctors somehow. And you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs...

Was it this guy?

[legacy-cdn.smosh.com image 448x335]

Word has it he is a bad doctor.

i was really hoping for a Kids in the Hall reference. you have satisfied me, good sir/madam.

Freud's Cigar: Saw an article on this story with headline something like "Donor Mom Dies on Operating Table". Can someone explain to me why they kept referring to her throughout the story as "mom" this and "mom" that. She wasn't trying to donate to her kid, she was trying to donate to her sibling. What the fark does her uterine status have to do with it? Does brother have kids? Why aren't we hearing about him as "Dad Still Needs Kidney" or whatever.

I don't really understand why news articles always hype the mom status. The only other time you see that kind of thing is "mental patient runs amok" or "mental patient wins prize despite drool" or whatever.

DrPainMD: FTA: "The hospital told the family that it had not yet gotten the necessary federal approval for Medina to leapfrog over others on the list."

Fark the feds. It's none of their business who gives a kidney to whom. If the purpose of the military is to defend this country, why isn't it attacking Washington?

The reason for the federal organ donor register is the avoid the slippery slope that is an open market for organs. People will pay huge amounts of money for an organ and people might kill you for it. Its an intrastate transaction generally as well.

Abox: PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone.


Regardless if the donor's death were an accident, "complication," or malpractice, the doctors and hospital need to pay up.

\consequences...how do they work?

FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

Came here to ask this. How does one sever an aorta while harvesting a kidney?

FizixJunkee: Abox: PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone.


Regardless if the donor's death were an accident, "complication," or malpractice, the doctors and hospital need to pay up.

\consequences...how do they work?

No consequences if you are too big to malpractice. Let the stonewalling begin!

My dad used to tell people to go pound sand [up their asses] all the time. I thought he made that up! Never heard it used elsewhere before.

RoyBatty: It's not just they cut the aorta, but that they damaged the kidney as well.

So I have questions:

1. What would a doctor do after severing the descending aorta that would screw up the kidney? Bad cut? Medication?

2. There are two kidneys in most people, can a left be swapped for a right? Or does it have to be left to left, right to right when they are rotated?

3. How did they screw up both kidneys?

When her aorta started gushing the surgery went from kidney removal to trying to save her life. The kidneys are vacuum packed in fat and connective tissue to the back so they're not easily yoinked. By the time they gave up on her, the kidneys were probably shot from lack of blood flow.

They prefer to take the left kidney for donations because it has a longer artery and vein. When they put it in the recipient, they usually leave the shot kidneys and put the new one in the pelvis.

So, everyone has 2 kidneys, but we only need 1 to live.

/A plan forms.

catonacid: I don't even know what to say. That is one of the most brutal ways I've ever seen somebody getting their life completely and utterly unnecessarily ruined.
Personally, that is a cheap shot I don't think I could overcome.

Wait until he finds out about the hepatitis he got from the tattoo.

FloydA: Nabb1: namatad: Paris1127: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

[www.genesis-ultrasound.com image 400x320]
I'm not a doctor, but the descending aorta appears to be somewhat close to both kidneys... That being said, that's quite the slip up...

on the other hand, from that picture, the descending aorta is GIGANTIC.

I'll have to ask my wife about this when she gets home in while. This is her bailiwick, not mine.


How close is that to the kidney? I'd hate to have my bailiwick accidentally severed!

Nearly as bad as getting stabbed in the rotunda?! Poor, poor Caesar...

*yawn*...

Subby, take your trendy manfactured liberal outrage and sell it at the co-op.

Peace, man.

PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone. Christ, these guys value their "winning percentage" more than anyone else in the world... Not to mention, they don't go around severing aortas for fun.

How badly does a doctor have to screw up to sever a major artery while taking out a kidney?

Keizer_Ghidorah

How badly does a doctor have to screw up to sever a major artery while taking out a kidney?



There are clowns in every profession. Doc might have been doing great until that guy he went to med school with decides payback actually IS a biatch.

can we make cadaver organ donations opt OUT instead of opt IN?

I mean if everyone was automatically a donor unless they filled out whatever forms to be a non donor all the people who wouldn't mind being donors and are just too busy to fill out the forms to be a donor would be in.

LiberalEastCoastElitist: When her aorta started gushing the surgery went from kidney removal to trying to save her life. The kidneys are vacuum packed in fat and connective tissue to the back so they're not easily yoinked. By the time they gave up on her, the kidneys were probably shot from lack of blood flow.They prefer to take the left kidney for donations because it has a longer artery and vein. When they put it in the recipient, they usually leave the shot kidneys and put the new one in the pelvis.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Oldiron_79: n we make cadaver organ donations opt OUT instead of opt IN?

I mean if everyone was automatically a donor unless they filled out whatever forms to be a non donor all the people who wouldn't mind being donors and are just too busy to fill out the forms to be a donor would be in.

Please! Donate your organs so we can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for installing them in somebody else! We can't get rich for being heroes if you don't do your part for free!

Screw that. You want me to fill out forms to prevent doctors and hospitals from benefiting handsomely, using raw materials they didn't pay a thin dime for, bring them on.

I'm not understanding why they couldn't still take a kidney out of his dead sister, especially right when it happened. Then it'd be like, you guys messed up and killed the sister, but at least the guy still got his kidney. Now he has no sister AND no kidney. How did this go wrong? It's not like she needed to be cleared for organ donation or something...

My next question is... how many of her organs did they harvest after they killed her?

accidentally severing her aorta while transplanting her kidney
means somebody else paid good money for that kidney
so they killed her off to get it

and his sister's sacrifice was for nothing.


now THAT is farking sad.

wildcardjack: FloydA: I've been watching too much Metalocalypse

No such thing.

RoyBatty: It's not just they cut the aorta, but that they damaged the kidney as well.

So I have questions:

1. What would a doctor do after severing the descending aorta that would screw up the kidney? Bad cut? Medication?

2. There are two kidneys in most people, can a left be swapped for a right? Or does it have to be left to left, right to right when they are rotated?

3. How did they screw up both kidneys?

4. Who else in the hospital got a needed transplant that day?

Excellent question. What happened to her other kidney?

foo monkey: RoyBatty: It's not just they cut the aorta, but that they damaged the kidney as well.

So I have questions:

1. What would a doctor do after severing the descending aorta that would screw up the kidney? Bad cut? Medication?

2. There are two kidneys in most people, can a left be swapped for a right? Or does it have to be left to left, right to right when they are rotated?

3. How did they screw up both kidneys?

4. Who else in the hospital got a needed transplant that day?

Excellent question. What happened to her other kidney?

Organs likely rendered untransplantable by all the medical measures they had to take to try and save her life.

The other kidney is not an issue.

What''s important is, and what really must be discussed, is the central theme of conern of most hospitals that see these kinds of issue, in that, in and of themselves, doctors and patients have a unique relationship, one of a caregiver and one of a kind of a kind of advoctate for their own health care in a hospital or outpaitient setting wherein the patient themselves is more often than not the subject of a kind of intensive scrutiny of sorts by not only that person's health care provider but moreover one of the medical community at large, which in these cases is often decided at a time when the patient may or may not be ready to actually discuss issues central to their care with the doctor or caregiver of their choice, depending on insurance coverage or lack thereof, meaning that in the majority of these cases, people can and do find themselves short an organ or two. It happens.

namatad: Oldiron_79: automatically

fark opt out
your dead, we people get your organs. period

your religion requires you to have all your parts? fine.
but you are permanently banned from every receiving organs

Hmmm ... maybe if there were something like organ banks ... perhaps criminals sentenced to the death penalty would have their organs harvested .... perhaps organlegging might be a problem.

Corporate Self: Why do we pay the most for less than average health care?

The rest of the world mocks us for good reason.

That's OK, we've got our fine farkups up here as well, though at least we pay less for ours, and we can try to sink governments if they really mess the system up and actually have a non-trivial chance of success. The Ontario health ministry is squirming over the public insurance plan's refusal to cover a 3-year-old's sight-saving surgery in the US (they do cover surgeries not easily available in Canada if a US hospital and doctor is closer - I had eye muscle surgery in Detroit instead of London, Ontario under this very policy almost 30 years ago). The ministry can't actually order the nominally independent agency to reverse a decision, as a legal defence against undue political interference in public matters requiring absolute impartiality, but they're rightfully taking flak over it, and I hope OHIP comes to its senses and pays for the damn surgery. I think even the Canadian doctors referred them to the US doctors best able to do the surgery, and another kid in a similar situation is getting his US procedures paid for, so cut the crap, raise my taxes if it's really that much of a burden on the province's effing credit rating, and give this kid a chance at having some eyesight. I say that as someone whose eyesight blows, but appreciates even the poor sight I do have even as I gripe about it.

The other thing making them squirm is a scandal involving a contracted-out provincial air ambulance service that may have made several communication or decision-making errors leading to patient deaths, poor vehicle purchases that made certain paramedical procedures impossible due to a lack of space, and cutting corners in the officially non-profit but well-funded service while possibly devoting resources to for-profit side businesses, paying execs millions, and giving plum jobs to friends and lovers of the CEO. It's pretty ugly, and the health ministry has had a few stunning farkups over multiple governments in the past 15-20 years of all ideologies, but for the most part the actual care providers and doctors have been very good to me. Any problems we do have are a matter of better resource allocation, incentives to work in smaller communities (I think this is done to a rough extent), and access to better technology. We still don't have a province-wide electronic medical records exchange system yet, which is probably the longest-running, most frustrating farkup as billions have been tossed toward consultants producing nothing, across PC and Liberal governments and health ministers. That money could have gone toward a lot of useful upgrades and more doctors.

In any event, the current gang of professional politicians in charge is short of a majority government, so if things get worse before that changes and a ruling party MPP votes against the government they could theoretically be booted out and forced into another election, though I doubt the PCs would actually do anything useful or helpful and the NDP still doesn't stand a chance provincially. They still have a poor reputation from the recession-hobbled early-90s NDP government, led by the current federal Liberal Party leader.

We can, and do, get heads and results when it looks like the politicians find a way to fark up a working healthcare system, or an individual or organization makes a serious error. We paid for it, we can at least try to demand accountability and necessary changes from the people ostensibly in charge (I have a much more radical opinion on this, but I'm not going into it right now; this is already in tl;dr territory).

Epicfarker: I'm currently working on my nursing degree, so I have taken an insane amount of Anatomy/Pathophysiology with human cadavers included. And I'm having trouble understanding how someone accidentally severes an aorta. That is kind of like taking out a small pocket knife to cut the little wire tag off of a new hose and accidentally slicing through the hose it self. So unless they were opening her up with a farking axe....I'm not seeing how this happened.

/Also, there is no way of mistaking the descending aorta with the renal vessels.

Go sit in on a few more surgeries, you will see that human bodies are terribly strange things that do not look like what the pictures in the books tell us, especially on the inside.While your in there, grab a scalpel. Those things can cut ANYTHING and an aorta isn't nearly as tough as a garden hose.
I liked the ME's office way better than the OR myself... Good times:-)
I DNTFA, so it could have been really bad doctoring. There are some people practicing medicine who scare the crap out of me.

/long time nurse
//Good luck in nursing school!
///I hope you look into nursing other than hospital. Public health is a great place to work if you can handle it.

cretinbob: Keizer_Ghidorah: How badly does a doctor have to screw up to sever a major artery while taking out a kidney?

farking kidneys, how do they work?

[faculty.irsc.edu image 414x443]

Okay, so it does connect directly to the kidney. Did they forget to apply the clamps and ties before they sliced?

cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

spawn73: cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

I'm not a doctor and know shiat about medicine or Obamacare or socialsim or capitalism, but I think doctors attempt "foolhardy" surgery because they are trying to save lives.

But I am curious about your medical knowledge.

spawn73: cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

So every doctor who's ever made a mistake does/did it because he was being paid? If doctors didn't receive a paycheck for their work, they wouldn't make mistakes?

RoyBatty: spawn73: cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

I'm not a doctor and know shiat about medicine or Obamacare or socialsim or capitalism, but I think doctors attempt "foolhardy" surgery because they are trying to save lives.

But I am curious about your medical knowledge.

Medical knowledge would help neither of us in evaluating whether or not this was foolhardy. I was replying in the context that the woman was fat, and that they shouldn't have attempted it. Ie. Cretinbobs comment.

Generally, in the real world. I don't think doctors do foolhardy things for money. Though obviously some do, like the doctors rich people like to keep, think Michael Jackson etc.

Keizer_Ghidorah: spawn73: cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

So every doctor who's ever made a mistake does/did it because he was being paid? If doctors didn't receive a paycheck for their work, they wouldn't make mistakes?

Don't set up strawmen, that's unbecomming of you.

Gyrfalcon: Define "foolhardy" in 25 words or less.

Getting surgery at the hospital in the article.

I've never seen a "good" county hospital.

Wow. I've never seen a thread about a tragic surgery mishap devole into a 'socialism (GLORY TO THE STATE!!) vs capitalism (FARK THE POOR HARD!!)' debate.

At the very least, we can all agree that the hospital mentioned in TFA should be blacklisted by all Farkers as one to *never* go to for any reason. Period.

Gyrfalcon: studebaker hoch: I've never seen a "good" county hospital.

Ha, I have, but that was back in the Olden Days, when Monterey County still had money.

Again, Montefiore is a private, non-profit teaching hospital. It is NOT a public hospital.

RoyBatty: It's not just they cut the aorta, but that they damaged the kidney as well.

So I have questions:

1. What would a doctor do after severing the descending aorta that would screw up the kidney? Bad cut? Medication?

2. There are two kidneys in most people, can a left be swapped for a right? Or does it have to be left to left, right to right when they are rotated?

3. How did they screw up both kidneys?

4. Who else in the hospital got a needed transplant that day?

1. The only thing I can think of I'd that they gave her transfusions in an effort to save her life. That messes up the antibody profile of the organs and could render her organs no longer a match for him. Maybe. But it still seems fishy.

You have to transplant left to left and right to right do the hookups work right.

3. Same as #1

4. Unlikely anyone did. It wouldn't be too common to schedule 2 kidney transplants on the same day.

(I'm a kidney transplant social worker at a children's hospital)

Gyrfalcon: spawn73: Keizer_Ghidorah: spawn73: cretinbob: Oh and she was fat, so they probably shouldn't even have tried removing it in the first place. He was probably cutting through the adipose tissue and cut it blindly.

Manfred J. Hattan: No really, you think you're making some huge point. So guess.

My point is that this is what the conservatards think only happens because Obamacare. This doc should be looking at a malpractice suit regardless of who pays what. However without a profit motive, would he have attempted this at all?

Why is that a "however?". No maybe if hospitals didn't work for profit, they wouldn't attempt foolhardy surgery.

So every doctor who's ever made a mistake does/did it because he was being paid? If doctors didn't receive a paycheck for their work, they wouldn't make mistakes?

Don't set up strawmen, that's unbecomming of you.

He didn't, douchebag.

Yes he did, and you're ugly.

Gyrfalcon: Normally, if there's a risk, the ethics committee, or a risk-assessment committee, sits down and determines the chances of something going wrong, vs. the risk of not doing the procedure. In this case, is the risk of taking a fat woman's kidney out higher than the risk of the brother likely dying if he doesn't get a comp ...

What if the surgeon does not follow the original plan, and the patient dies?

JonPace: DrPainMD: FTA: "The hospital told the family that it had not yet gotten the necessary federal approval for Medina to leapfrog over others on the list."

Fark the feds. It's none of their business who gives a kidney to whom. If the purpose of the military is to defend this country, wy isn't it attacking Washington?

Then who's decision is it? You can choose to donate your kidney to whoever you want, but if you are an organ donor and due then someone's got to make the choice. The screw UPS here are all on the hospital. They killed his sister and then promised him something they couldn't deliver in hopes of not being sued.

Its not the feds job to make up for dr's fark UPS

Actually, it depends what state you're in. In Texas, for example, it doesn't matter what your drivers license says, they will ask your next of kin. If they say no, then you aren't a donor, no matter what your wishes were.

namegoeshere: ph0rk: studebaker hoch: I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

Spare part babies. Don't people already do this for sick children?

Savior Siblings. For some reason this horrifies me.

To have a baby in hopes of donating one of it's kidneys to a sibling would mean waiting a long, long time for your cunning plan to work. Living donors must be able to consent for themselves, I.e. be 18.

ph0rk: Mini Ditka: ph0rk: Mini Ditka: That sucks bad that he's not getting a kidney, especially under the circumstances. But the real story here is, that hospital is about to write a check that will make Rodney King say "GODDAMN, HOW MUCH??!!!"

That he can enjoy while on dialysis, I assume.


As well as her 3 motherless kids.....

He's still going to die. Somehow I figure that's probably foremost in his mind.

He's going to die eventually, but he's either on dialysis or was getting a pre-emotive transplant, either way his death is not immenent.

Manfred J. Hattan: Inchoate: This guy and Yolanda's family deserve enough malpractice-lawsuit moolah to eat caviar off lingerie models on a private jet to Tahiti every day of their lives.

And so exactly how much money would you take from this non-profit teaching hospital with the .1% fatality rate on risky organ removals? And how are you going to identify and compensate the people who will die during their current suspension of the program and those who might die if they curtail or eliminate it?

What happened to this family is awful, and they should be compensated. But let's keep in mind that the people on the other side aren't some chop shop duping people into getting kidney transplants and covering up how bad they are at it. They're Montefiore, one of the best hospital systems on the planet and a non-profit to boot.

Wut?

The damaged aorta probably happened through a laparoscope. It sucks, but it happens. I'm more concerned about a person on government assistance wasting money on a freakin' tattoo.

As a kidney recipient, I enjoy reading these comments.

However, two things you should consider:

1. The hospital (or doctors) didn't kill the woman, she died of a complication of surgery.
2. The people at UNOS are very compassionate an have the highest standard of ethics.

I feel sorry for the recipient and send him my condolences for the loss of his sister.

The biggest victim of this story may be that otherwise potential donors get scared and don't go through with it. Please consider.

/I was given a kidney by a living stranger who just wanted to do something good for the world.
//Try my best every day.

Good gods, man, just read the article. Did the surgical team consist of Drs. Larry, Curly and Moe?

consciousNOT

The damaged aorta probably happened through a laparoscope. It sucks, but it happens. I'm more concerned about a person on government assistance wasting money on a freakin' tattoo.

I didn't know there was a laparoscopic procedure to remove a kidney.

studebaker hoch: consciousNOT

The damaged aorta probably happened through a laparoscope. It sucks, but it happens. I'm more concerned about a person on government assistance wasting money on a freakin' tattoo.

I didn't know there was a laparoscopic procedure to remove a kidney.

Most are removed like that now. You still have to enlarge an incision somewhat to get it out of the abdomen, but it results in better visualization and faster recovery time.

What third world country did this happen in?

/obamacurrrr

FizixJunkee: Abox: PatoDeAgua: Well, I am a doctor, and its called a complication. Its not like a surgeon ever intentionally kills someone.


Regardless if the donor's death were an accident, "complication," or malpractice, the doctors and hospital need to pay up.

\consequences...how do they work?

Just because the outcome was poor doesn't mean that a fault occurred. Complications exist in every single medical procedure, and a lawsuit isn't the natural process because of it. There are tons of facts about this that we clearly don't have access to...

peachfish: namegoeshere: ph0rk: studebaker hoch: I Like Bread

Remind me again why we are only allowed to give away our organs to complete strangers...?

If selling them were allowed, only the super-rich would ever get transplants. Plus everybody would have like three extra kids so they could "accidentally" be killed in accidents, their organs sold, and the family gets a new ski boat.

Spare part babies. Don't people already do this for sick children?

Savior Siblings. For some reason this horrifies me.

To have a baby in hopes of donating one of it's kidneys to a sibling would mean waiting a long, long time for your cunning plan to work. Living donors must be able to consent for themselves, I.e. be 18.

Savior siblings donate more on the cellular level. The controversy is that the donor child exists only because the older sibling needed them to be born. That's a heavy weight for a child to carry.

Also, children can donate a kidney to an immediate family member:

(Warning: pdf)

TABLE 1 When Children May Ethically Serve as Solid-Organ Donors
Children may serve as solid-organ donors if:
Donor and recipient are both highly likely to benefit;
Surgical risk for the donor is extremely low;
All other deceased and living donor options have been exhausted;
The minor freely assents to donate without coercion (established by an
independent advocacy team); and
Emotional and psychological risks to the donor are minimized

American Academy of Pediatrics

namegoeshere: Also, children can donate a kidney to an immediate family member:

(Warning: pdf)

TABLE 1 When Children May Ethically Serve as Solid-Organ Donors
Children may serve as solid-organ donors if:
Donor and recipient are both highly likely to benefit;
Surgical risk for the donor is extremely low;
All other deceased and living donor options have been exhausted;
The minor freely assents to donate without coercion (established by an
independent advocacy team); and
Emotional and psychological risks to the donor are minimized

American Academy of Pediatrics

Maybe according to AAP, but at the facility where I work it would have to an issue of death being immenent without transplantation before they would let someone donate under age 18

peachfish: namegoeshere: Also, children can donate a kidney to an immediate family member:

(Warning: pdf)

TABLE 1 When Children May Ethically Serve as Solid-Organ Donors
Children may serve as solid-organ donors if:
Donor and recipient are both highly likely to benefit;
Surgical risk for the donor is extremely low;
All other deceased and living donor options have been exhausted;
The minor freely assents to donate without coercion (established by an
independent advocacy team); and
Emotional and psychological risks to the donor are minimized

American Academy of Pediatrics

Maybe according to AAP, but at the facility where I work it would have to an issue of death being immenent without transplantation before they would let someone donate under age 18

Each facility can set its own rules for transplant, but there is no law.

namatad: Paris1127: FloydA: Wait a sec...a woman went to donate a kidney, and they accidentally severed her aorta?

The guy's probably safer not getting a kidney than getting one from them!

[www.genesis-ultrasound.com image 400x320]
I'm not a doctor, but the descending aorta appears to be somewhat close to both kidneys... That being said, that's quite the slip up...

on the other hand, from that picture, the descending aorta is GIGANTIC.

That's the descending aorta of a black man.

/yes, I went there